The Reds still don’t have a clear answer at shortstop, but it doesn’t appear as though moving Nick Senzel back to the infield is a consideration. Manager David Bell today told reporters that Senzel is seen as the primary center fielder in Cincinnati, adding that if the club ever considered putting him back in the infield, “…we’d be missing a lot in the outfield” (Twitter link via Mark Sheldon of MLB.com).
On paper at least, there’s reason to consider such a shift sensible. The Reds have a crowded outfield mix with Shogo Akiyama, Jesse Winker and Nick Castellanos also in the mix for at-bats. Winker and Castellanos are strictly corner outfielders, but Akiyama has a long track record in center field in Japan and, ostensibly, could be viewed as a candidate for regular work in center. That’s not in the plans at this time, it seems, so they’ll look to a mix of Kyle Farmer, Kyle Holder, Jose Garcia and non-roster veteran Dee Strange-Gordon as options at shortstop. It’s a mix that could clearly use an upgrade, but at this time there’s no indication the team is aggressively pursuing alternatives.
More from the division…
- Pirates outfielder Anthony Alford is still limited on defense following last year’s fractured right elbow, director of sports medicine Todd Tomcyzk told reporters (link via the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s Mike Persak). While Alford will likely be in early spring games as a designated hitter, he’s still facing some “challenges” with regard to throwing. While the Bucs will likely give Bryan Reynolds at least some time in center this season, manager Derek Shelton implied Wednesday that the current battle is more one between Alford and non-roster veteran Brian Goodwin. That was before the club’s acquisition of Dustin Fowler from the Athletics, however, so it’s likely that the newly acquired former top prospect is now in the mix as well. That seems to leave Reynolds as the primary left fielder and Gregory Polanco looking for a bounceback in right field. Both Fowler and Alford are out of minor league options, so they’ll need to make the Opening Day roster (or be placed on the Major League injured list) to avoid being designated for assignment again.
- There’s still no indication that the National League will be able to deploy a designated hitter in 2021, but Brewers skipper Craig Counsell is still rooting for a late agreement to change that, writes MLB.com’s Adam McCalvy. Though Counsell has previously been against the NL DH, the manager noted that for the Brewers roster, as currently constructed, it would be beneficial. That’s largely because of the presence of Daniel Vogelbach, who mashed in 67 plate appearances as a Brewer late in the 2020 season but was pushed off a potential regular role at first base when Milwaukee signed Kolten Wong, thus sliding Keston Hiura over to first base. As McCalvy notes, if there’s no late agreement on a designated hitter, it’s possible the Brewers could cut Vogelbach loose. He agreed to a $1.4MM to avoid arbitration over the winter, but the Brewers would only owe him 30 days’ salary ($226K) if he’s cut in the first half of Spring Training or 45 days ($339K) if he’s cut in the second half of camp. If Vogelbach makes the Opening Day roster, that entire $1.4MM salary would be locked in.
Firs Baset?
Haha I came here to comment the same thing!
New cross breed involving a Bassett Hound?
Big Daddy Vogelbach could play CF with his speed
I am just glad we don’t have to watch him watch strike 3 then all to the dugout throwing the bar to his other hand and head down. He sucks at 1st too.
I shook my head when I read a scouting report that said he was slow and over weight with short arms. In what league sites that make you a good fit for 1st?
California Penal?
Our Vogey is nowhere near as fast these days. He went to a very dark place this Spring since his bromance with Yusei Kikuchi became a long distance affair. If you’re reading this Daniel- we got Yusei to agree to face time you twice a day. It’s going to be ok
with how their roster is constructed, they’re just shooting themselves in the foot not moving Senzel to SS.
Honestly I think they’re shooting theirselves in the foot either way. Look at their lineup and they have all their money tied up in corner positions (Votto, Suarez, Castellanos, having to take the defensive hit on moving Moustakas). Just isn’t a sustainable way to build a team
Thanks Basement GM! Bellinger got moved to CF, but really should be 1b, Betts is corner RF, Turner corner guy- 3B. Seagar was finally healthy & had good year but was only true stud up the middle guy!
Bellinger is definitely better served playing OF. His athleticism would be wasted at 1B. The Dodgers have 3 guys with borderline CF ability in Bellinger, Betts, and Pollack. So playing all 3 at the same time allows them to not have a true CF and get away with it. It is not comparable to the Reds who don’t have a legit SS and are playing a corner guy at 2B already, with 2 trash COF.
But honestly don’t expect much retrospection from a dude with that username.
With 47 outfielders in camp and a guy in Center Field who would be an upgrade to anyone else you have at Shortstop, why wouldn’t you move him there? It’s not like Kyle Farmer is going to wake up tomorrow and be Marcus Semien. I don’t understand this thinking at all.
Which Semien we talking?
I still cant believe Farmer, a 4th string Dodgers catcher, destined to be serving you at El Torito just years ago is penciled in as the starting SS for the Reds come early April . Kudos to him
Bellinger 1,000,000 % should be in CF – Hes going to win a GG soon out there. Id argue CF is more important than Ss today only behind C ofc in relevance for defense
As a lifelong Reds fan I approve your post. No Reds fans that I am aware of understand the org’s thinking about most everything. Which is a good indicator of why it has been 30 years since their last WS. They have a talented, potential 5 tool young player if he can stay healthy who is a natural IF’er. So let’s make him into a CF with a continuing glaring hole up the middle at SS. Makes perfect sense to this FO even if it makes no sense to everybody else.
As a Reds fan for 50 years, your post is off target. Senzel is NOT a SS. They tried him there very briefly in ST and moved on. Senzel has very quickly become an above average centerfielder. Why would you move him? He’s not a yo-yo.
They’re an ignorant FO. If you’re too cheap to go get a FA then it’s either Senzel at SS or slide Suarez back there, Moose to 3B and Senzel to 2B where he got plenty of reps in AAA
Can’t wait for a defensive alignment with Suarez at SS, Moustakas at 2B, Winker in LF, Castellanos in RF. If I was a pitcher for the Reds, I would strike.
It’s still possible a deal for Rosario gets made during spring training. Lots of things happen at ST in regard to injuries and illness.
In Cleveland, Ramirez is at 3b, Hernandez is at 2b. It’s highly possible the Indians want to get a good look at their 2 new shortstops in game action and get to know them before exploring deals for one of them.
to be fair, anyone can trade to fill a hole during ST, but you have to assume its not going to happen, no?
Don’t believe what he says in February. If they haven’t acquired a SS by mid March, Senzel will definitely be considered.
So the Reds lose the best pitcher in NL last year and their #4 starter, two of their best Pullen pieces, their starting SS, and Votto is a year older and Bell seems to think making changes could screw up the team? What is his strategy? Hoping or Praying?
If he actually had a strategy that would be a first
^^^. Bell. is just a analytics yes man for Bob C and Nick K.. There is no mental acumen required.
well thats one injury Senzel hasnt had yet.
Garcia was their best bat in spring training 2020 and fangraphs has him as reds #1 prospect. So if reds weren’t making any moves bc that’s their guy- then that’s sensible. However their front office has already said he’s most likely starting in minors- which fits the mold of – what in the hell is this front office doing ??
Bell, in his first season, got thrown out of more games than anyone in the history of the game. He’s terrible and the worst manager in the game.
Senzel needs a rock solid major league season to prove he is worthy of being penciled in at any position. Good minor league stats though.
These comments have became 90% trolls recently… it’s just sad at this point.
Anywho, I’ve been a big advocate for Alford, and I think he could finally pop-off in Pitt. Get his injuries healed and finally get him some playing time, and I expect some good production. He was always pushed to the side in Toronto, so finally getting him that time would be very beneficial to him. Remember, the man is still only 26, so there is plenty left in his tank as for youth.
Agreed comments have become a pool of nasty angry people. Very hard to have just a simple baseball convo.
Shhhhhhh, I didn’t read anything nasty, angry, etc. It’s sad that some of you can’t take a joke or are just too easily offended? Go turn the Lawrence Welk show back on, Lol
i dunno, his numbers arent just meh so far in the Majors, they’re downright bad. the small sample late last year with PIT looked better, but that’s still small.
If you don’t mind me asking, which post here is a troll post? The ones above are making a joke about typo, joking about Vogey’s speed and the others are definitely on topic. I don’t see anything wrong with some funny banter, or informing the writers they made a mistake.
Edit – unless you’re speaking for the comment sections across the board.
I didn’t see-some comments here could have been pulled on this thread. I do agree with Rangers, there have been some unreadable threads here.. Very unlikely that any MLB FO is “ignorant,” tho..
I just mean in general. I feel it has gone from 0-60 real quick with the trolls and arguments now. This post has been fine, but some of them don’t have baseball conversation for the whole thread.
I appreciate the light hearted joke about Vogelbach! He makes Babe Ruth look like a gazelle.
Now, was that a troll? I mean, I did reference a baseball God.
Ya know, I go to games and see dudes with scorecards documenting every single at bat. That’s great if that brings joy.
Some of us love America’s favorite pastime. Some of us escape number crunching, stats, averages, etc, etc….and we are genuine fans too.
From seeing Lee May hit one outta Crosley Field against the Reds at my first game ever (there was some rookie named Rose) to Ichiro breaking Sisler’s record (sue me for spelling errors), I love the game. It’s perfect in its imperfection.
Vogey could crush the ball just as he crushed the baseball as he stomped his way up first base line. I swear his pace slowed with the wafting of garlic fries onto the field. And, he was a great teammate!
ICanSeeTheFuture
If you don’t mind me asking, which post here is a troll post?
===================================================================
I didn’t see any.
A couple of people complained about Vogelbach;s speed.
A couple of people complained about the Cincy FO, but so does everyone.
So we’re saying it’s ok to complain about other posters but NOT Front Offices or players? Checking for a friend..,,
I think the issue cuts deeper….baseball fans are just angry angry folk nowadays, about everything really
Its almost as if they seek it out; very strange indeed
Night and day from the basketball boards – People love basketball over there and its easy to see on the page . We root for young up and comers on “other” teams . give props to “other” teams front offices and it feels more like a community than a me against the world mentality that ruminates in here day to day –
These boards were better pre-Covid, I think a lot of the (wrong) people just have too much time on their hand today and this place gets littered with garbage
Interesting point regarding the difference between baseball and basketball fans reflected in the comment sections. I’d suggest that baseball’s audience skews much older and more conservative — let’s call it the “Grumpy Old Man” syndrome. The older audience also has more time on their hands, as you noted, due to retirement, isolation, COVID lockdown, etc., hence the proliferation of negativity seen here far too often.
Honestly wouldn’t mind if they only let comments be open to just FO/paid subscribers.
I think that some of you morons should get out from the basement. Go out for some fresh air. Have a beer or whatever beverage you prefer. Kiss the wife and kids. Then quit posting dumb crap.
Alford one and one… Ford all.
Where to I go to pick up my Expedition?? 🙂
As an A’s fan I’m sad to see Fowler go but unfortunately he simply had to. I think it’s a great pick up for a rebuilding pirates. I love to see him to really well there. Good luck this season pirates fans
CJ Abrams for Castillo
CJ Abrams and…?
CJ Abrams and Ryan Weathers would be an interesting deal.
No it wouldn’t.
I mean almost all five of the Padres starters are better than Castillo and we wouldn’t need a 7th starter when they call up Gore this year lol sorry not happening
It’s good to see that the team you’re a fan of does not affect your critical thinking. Your statement regarding Castillo is almost as silly as Hosmer for HOF.
Castillo is not in Snell’s tier but is closer to Lamet or Darvish. Maybe you’re only looking at Castillo’s down year(0.37 of a season) in 2020.
Paddy I think Hos’ point was that the Padres went in the direction they went and are set. “almost all five” actually already concedes the point you hammer him for, so from what i can see, there’s not much you’re adding here. Keeping in mind Clev at an affordable price in ’22 and the young guys are hitting their “prove it” years over the next couple, so Castillo for the Pads would be superfluous and maybe even a hindrance to young guys’ development. They made their moves, Castillo wasn’t one of them, now trust the young guys without having to bank on their immediate success
If the Reds have any slim hope of winning this year it relies on their pitching. If they trade Castillo there’s pretty much no hope. Might as well keep whatever AAAA guy they have at SS at that point.
Paddyo875, I’ve watched the guy pitch a few times and he’s good but I don’t like him enough to want to pay him $20M a year when we have rising costs going on already. Snell and Grisham are already gonna cost us enough 2-3 years from now. I think Paddack will have better numbers this year than his first two years and Lamet will pitch about as good as Paddack. So basically I’m saying he’ll look as productive as Joe Musgrove who I’d like to see compete at five with Gore and Weathers. Musgrove could pitch 3.5ERA in this division which is really all that matters by the numbers in a top pitchers park with one of the best offensive teams.
We’re trying to compete with the Dodgers mlb and farm over the next 5-10 years, I think youre the one who looks silly to argue trading 2 of our top 5 prospects and I think it’s insulting people think the Padres would make a dumb move to trade that much prospect talent when we didn’t even come close to that for Snell or Darvish. Snell was traded for one of those guys (not both) AND snell’s way better than Castillo.
Los_leebos, thanks, I mean I’ve even forgotten about clevinger right now because there’s so much talent and we’re competing for World Series over a decade if we have a great farm, not if we blow up the teams payroll to compete with LAD. We made a lot of big moves, we make more moves every year, we can start making less moves especially ones that reach for 1% improvement.
Side note if any deal wishfully happens for the Pads preseason maybe we get Hader and a Brewers outfielder soon that would be fun.
Los leebos…I was not arguing the point made that you also supported and mostly agree with; it was the supporting claim that was questionable.
Clevenger’s pre-TJ production has been better than Castillo’s when looking at the past 2-3 seasons. I was considering 2021 projections when I pushed back that “almost all 5” of SDP starters are better than Castillo.
I don’t see reason for hope this year. They have 2 front line starters and little else in pitching and their offense is a poor collection of hitters with bad defense who do not fit together. They will linger around .500 and the Reds will Hold at the AS Break and then they will quickly tank into 4th in the NL central.
Paddyo, lol in that case you didn’t have to agree with me. Same reason I tell everyone my username is Hosmer for HOF.. Do you have to agree? No. But as a fan I’ve spent time considering what he could do if he played there for 10 more years total. And I think the team would like a veteran defender that hits what I think he’d average year to year in his mid to late 30s for a respectable amount while we try to pay other stars. If he plays till 40 and they win a few World Series’s, you’d argue the guys postseason record and fame might get him to the hall on later ballots. Curt Schilling was in that similar purgatory the last few years.
I don’t agree with the claim you maid. I was pointing out how off base your opinion is. Snell is the only one clearly better than Castillo (who earns 4.1MM in 2021).
I suspect SDP tried trading for him before Darvish-but asked for too much. Much of that has to do with vast salary difference between Darvish and Castillo. Lamet and Clevinger pretty good comparable to Castillo. Paddock and Musgrove are obviously well below Castillo.
Claiming “almost all five” of SDP’s rotation is better than Castillo to support you point is absurd.
But *Cincy* asked for too much.
Now if we are talking more long-term, Castillo is likely going to get a big contract when he becomes a FA. If Paddack develops a solid 3rd pitch and Gore’s projection pans out, Castillo wouldn’t be as desirable in 2-3 years . In that sense, I agree with your point that SDP doesn’t need him now. But the claim to support your point is inaccurate.
It’s just poor judgment imo you think the Padres wanted to spend more later vs. right now while prospects are playing for cheap. It’s easier to trade for Yu because it was for nothing. And he was the second best pitcher last year in the NL. See? Padres wouldn’t trade for Castillo because we’ve dropped enough farm last year to the Reds, to the Indians, to the Rays and its mostly to claim players that these teams are losing budget space to in future years. Yu also comes off the books at a perfect time as a short term veteran stop gap. We are very proactive about not touching luxury taxes in San Diego, that is at least a new vibe I’ve been getting.. but the moves we’ve made in 5 years (even if I wasn’t a fan) 9/10 or 10/10.
As for Paddack I’m a believer last year he wasn’t focused or didn’t train as hard for good or bad reasons. I’m certain he’ll be around 3.8ERA this year at a younger playing similar talent to Castillo AND for way less money.
It’s not even if Gore, Weathers, Paddack, Lamet pan out… The only argument you have from MY point of view is Castillo would be better than half those guys for maybe a few more months before he declines. He’s not a future HOF. He just isn’t. Future: Castillo would be a $20M+ #5 pitcher we traded two top 50 mlb prospects to gamble on 1-2 years World Series contention because bloggers speculate that Preller just is that dumb after he’s taken us this far.
You seem to be stuck on some misconception that I said SDP needs to acquire Castillo. I did not, please reread.
In multiple comments, I clearly stated that your claim of “almost all five” of the SDP rotation are better than Castillo was:
(pick one from the terms I used
a)off base
b) absurd
c) silly
d) all of the above
I never contended the point you were making; however, the initial claim you made to support your point was also “e) laughable.”
Look for stats (or even projections) to back up your claim that Musgrove, Paddack, Darvish, and Lamet are better than Castillo. Again, you will likely not find any other than from a fan blog.
The more accurate assessment is that Castillo is: comparable to Darvish (short-term only), Lamet (if he’s healthy), and Clevinger (in 2022); clearly better Musgrove and Paddack; and inferior to Snell
FYI, I am basing my assessments on how each pitcher is trending in ERA+, FIP, and K/BB.
Where does abrams play when he’s big league ready ? Seems like 2nd is sowed up. So move to center maybe ?
Bot, I could be sick from considering all that lol. Love cronenworth but Abrams was a first rounder. If he panned out I imagine he takes over for cronenworth some day or becomes a center fielder. We’ve already got a five year deal with Ha-Seong Kim we just signed and even though he’s unproven we’re probably 1 and 2 with the Dodgers for not only most talent this year but most depth.
Preller is like a day trader at times and sometimes like Warren Buffet (tbd how true that could be).. He is not attached to any players except Tatis if anybody.
I would more likely see Cronenworth, Pham, or Grisham flipped for a big catcher prospect or pitchers than I would see Abrams flipped. And that’s simply because he’s got zero service time, first round pick, looks very promising already PLUS we traded Edwards which means he didn’t think Edwards was as perfect.
The only thing Vogelbach mashed are potatoes. He struck out 25% of his at bats for the Brewers. He’s one dimensional and if Counsell is hoping he helps that anemic offense he is crazy!!!!
Assuming no DH, It comes down to is it worth 1.4 mil for a LH pinch hitter bench bat and occasional Hiura rest day starter? I’m leaning toward no, but it might be closer than you think for Counsell.
Looking at Vogelbach career so far he’s only had a brief time with Milwaukee where he has done anything worth a roster spot but other than that he hasn’t hit 1/2 his weight. So if they release him your not losing much.
Hasn’t hit 1/10th his weight.
Vogey is sure he is making the roster. He is that glass full kind of guy that Servais loved. But you sure shake your head when he gets picked up because as a fan of him, I am sure his glass is mostly empty…sad…and the same bartender is pouring for Dee.
Reds blew it not getting a SS, but if they are smart they move Saurez to SS, he came up as a SS. Leave Moose at 2b and put Senzel at 3b, his natural position. That eases the OF blockage and gives them the stronger lineup. Who knows if Garcia will ever be able to hit?
Isn’t Senzel naturally a 2B? It would make more sense to put Senzel at 2B and Moose at 3B, and of course move Suarez to SS as you stated
Senzel played 3b in college, Reds moved him to 2b. The thing with Moose is he was below average at 3b the last few years. Now being older and more familiar with 2b I’d leave him there. Senzel being younger could hold down 3b for many years and Moose could be replaced at 2b.
Moose was actually an average (to slightly above average) defensive 3B. No way your logic is actually he is a bad 3B so he should play 2B. You can’t be that dumb. Also if Senzel, Moustakas, and Suarez is your infield, Senzel better be playing SS. Otherwise, the entire coaching staff should be fired.
You shouldn’t call other posters dumb. You consistently post dumb comments, and you post far too often.
Why are you so obsessed with me? It’s so cute.
Why would they be fired for NOT playing a guy out of position? He has never played SS. This is silly.
He played all three in HS. At UT he played mostly at 3rd and 2nd – more time at 3rd. He played a lot of 2nd on the farm. He is adept at either and would easily adapt to SS if asked. But it is past time to make a career move for him and it is a waste of talent in the OF, even if it is CF.
Suarez has 29 errors in 183 career games at SS so is he really the answer?
The Reds just played this whole thing badly. They sat back and watched Andrelton Simmons, Marcus Semien, Didi Gregorious, Freddy Galvis, Adeiny Hechevarria, Jordy Mercer, Greg Garcia, Ehire Adrianza and Jose Peraza all sign with other teams while Elvis Andrus, Francisco Lindor, and Jose Iglesias were all traded. There were plenty of options available and they chose none
Actually, it could be that non of the FA chose the Reds and none of the teams that traded shortstops liked any of the players that they could get from the Reds. Who knows how many that they tried to get but failed
Reds for sure didn’t try to sign any of those guys as they cried broke going into offseason. Rosario was in their budget but couldn’t get that done either.
Reds need to clean house. Fire bell kroll and anyone else who’s ever made a front office decision. Then hire a proven winner to rebuild this team.
How does Bob C and the ownership fire themselves – sell. That’s the only answer that could bring success on the field eventually.
Why won’t they move Senzel to the IF? It makes so much sense. Their OF is crowded enough, and keeping him there makes no sense whatsoever
Akiyama could be a great slap hitter at the bottom of the line up. Even if he’s a platoon guy getting him at bats is going to give you more offensively than Kyle Farmer. Unless they think Dee Gordon is going to make the club.
Bell is a very stubborn manager and it is his way or the highway. They screwed up in the 1st place moving Senzel to the OF and then got Akiyama who is a CFer. Now they have too many OFers and no SS. I do not know what they are thinking.
Bell is a moron who attempted a knothole tier delayed steal in a playoff game with two below average baserunners. He insisted upon leading off Aquino when Shogo had been putting up a .450 OBP over the last 30 games. He does not belong at the helm of a major league team. His lineups are terrible and make absolutely no sense. He is a solid reflection of inept, careless ownership.
The only thing I did like about Bell he did seem to manage the bullpen well. The one thing I would hate is losing DJ if Bell got fired. He’s done wonders with the pitching staff.
They need to acquire a mlb ready ss, and I believe they will before the season starts they just haven’t found a deal that fits.
David Bell isn’t making sense. Not only is shortstop a more valuable position than outfield but, as Steve says, they don’t really have a need there. But they do have a clear need at SS.
Any time you have a glaring hole at a key position like SS, and you fail to address it and downplay it with the attitude that it will sort itself out, that’s a problem. Screaming needs rarely sort themselves out. It really didn’t have to come to this, so it will be interesting to see this drama play out.
I appreciate the light hearted joke about Vogelbach! He makes Babe Ruth look like a gazelle.
Now, was that a troll? I mean, I did reference a baseball God.
Ya know, I go to games and see dudes with scorecards documenting every single at bat. That’s great if that brings joy.
Some of us love America’s favorite pastime. Some of us escape number crunching, stats, averages, etc, etc….and we are genuine fans too.
From seeing Lee May hit one outta Crosley Field against the Reds at my first game ever (there was some rookie named Rose) to Ichiro breaking Sisler’s record (sue me for spelling errors), I love the game. It’s perfect in its imperfection.
Vogey could crush the ball just as he crushed the baseball as he stomped his way up first base line. I swear his pace slowed with the wafting of garlic fries onto the field. And, he was a great teammate!
Wow Vogelbach getting abs might be the worst argument for having a dh ever.
Garcia may be young and raw but he might be the best option the Reds have if they are not going to consider Senzel. A backup Catcher, a 26 year old who hasn’t even played at AAA yet, and an aging speedster who doest really have speed and has played all of 16 games at the position in the last seven years is not an impressive group to sort through
I’ve been paying attention to Cincy since they decided to dump Jeter Downs & Josiah Gray for Puig & Kemp. At no point, in the past three years, have I ever thought they had a glimmer of a plan. Not a long-term plan, or a short-term plan, or anything.
It feels like they are going to start assessing the team in the middle of ST to see what they need.
As bad as it is for CIN fans, its much worse for DET fans. In the 5th year of rebuilding, DET is still acquiring players in hope to trade them off mid season.
A true infielder is the Reds best CF option…let that sink in!
A possible reason for the Fowler deal was because Polanco’s fractured wrist isn’t on schedule.
maybe pirates could sign jackie bradley jr to be center fielder oh wait, sorry