TODAY: The Indians announced that Hamilton has been released.
MARCH 11: The Indians have informed veteran outfielder Billy Hamilton, who is in camp with them on a minor league deal, that he will not make the Opening Day roster, manager Terry Francona announced to reporters this morning (Twitter link via MLB.com’s Mandy Bell). The organization made the decision quickly and will “attempt to help him land” with another club, per Francona.
Hamilton always faced an uphill battle in making the Indians’ roster, given the presence of Eddie Rosario, Oscar Mercado, Josh Naylor, Jordan Luplow, Bradley Zimmer, Daniel Johnson, Amed Rosario and Jake Bauers on the 40-man roster. But Cleveland’s outfield picture got even more crowded not two weeks after Hamilton inked his deal with the club on Feb. 12, as the Indians wound up claiming Harold Ramirez off waivers from the Marlins.
It’s not clear whether Cleveland will quickly release Hamilton or simply try to find a nominal trade that could send him to another club with more of a need in the outfield. Either way, it seems likely Hamilton will be with another club before too long.
The 30-year-old speedster was a fixture in the Reds’ outfield from 2013-18 but has begun to bounce around the league in journeyman fashion since that time. He split the 2019 season between the Royals and the Braves before spending time with the Giants, Mets and Cubs organizations in 2020. (He did not appear in the Majors with San Francisco.) Hamilton remains one of the game’s fastest players and most gifted outfield defenders, but he’s batted just .237/.294/.317 across his past four seasons in a total of 1578 plate appearances.
Back to the Cubs.
I won’t be surprised if Billy Hamilton is on some teams opening day MLB roster. Late inning OF replacement and pinch runner.
Ugh. Why do we have to go through this every time Billy Hamilton’s name is mentioned? He is not a valuable player… the fact that he never spends the entire season with one team is a clue. Pinch running and late inning replacements do not offer the value you think… ah, what’s the use?
@Cosmo2- I tend to agree with you, but he is a true CF which has SOME value in itself. Also with the 26th man and extra inning rule being implemented, I think he’s worth a roster spot on some teams.
So true Cosmo, Billy became a larger than life name despite never living up to the hype. If I wanted a baserunner in his prime, I’d take Quintin Berry. And if I wanted a speedster that can hit, I’d go with Rajai Davis..
The funny thing is this Billy Hamilton isn’t even the best all time MLB base stealer named Billy Hamilton. There used to be a Billy Hamilton who stole over 900 career bases including 4 seasons with 100+ and another season with 97.
Ha. Good info. Thanks for that.
IMO: and the greatest leadoff hitter all time.
Really hard to compare deadball players to modern day. The game is nothing like it was then. Our billy hamilton could probably outhit old billy hamilton
You mean Ricky Henderson, right?
For leadoff hitters, I go with Billy Hamilton then Pete Rose. Sliding Billy often had 200+ Hits, 100+ walks, 100+ stolen bases and 150+ Runs. Also, I saw both Pete Rose and Rickey Henderson play at their peaks and I prefer Rose over Henderson.
I’ll take Henderson over Cheaty Petey. What did Pete do better than Rickey? I watched both for most of their careers and didn’t notice anything.
Also, modern players are better than Deadball era players. Players get better from generation to generation. The players today are, generally, better than the ones I saw in the ’60s.
Rickey had the ability to make the game 1-0 before most people were in their seats. Be it a Home Run or a walk turned into a triple Rickey could do it all.
I almost wish there was interleague play back in the 1980’s because it would have been amazing to see Rickey Henderson play against Tim Raines and Vince Coleman in their primes
Also fact, have you ever seen his caught stealing rate? Never had analytics back then. Barely cracked 50% success rate. I play sim league baseball, you get to see all the crazy dead-ball stats. I think he hit over .400 too
The original Billy Hamilton played in the highest offensive era ever in the 1890s. Especially 1894. So take his amazing numbers with a shaker of salt.
His nickname was Slidin’ Billy Hamilton.
Richey Henderson was once named Billy Hamilton? I did not know that
I see a lot of his numbers in bold on baseball reference, which means he led the league in them. I see OPS+ numbers that are extremely impressive, and that takes his era in to consideration.
Two batting titles, lead the league in steals 5 times, walks 5 times, OBP 5 times, OPS twice, OPS+ twice (career 141) and led in runs 4 times.
That’s fantastic in any era. Plus 914 career steals.
Rickey is easily the greatest leadoff hitter of all time.
I saw Ricky play for the Yanks hundreds of times, @cey hey. Without a doubt, he remains the single most destructive lead off hitter I’ll see in my life. I’ll submit one stat as evidence: 2,295 runs. Ricky knew where home plate was, man.
& – hey – thanks for the inspiration to spend my weekend hunting geese instead of penguins.
Astrosfan, that’s why OPS+ is helpful, providing context. The original Billy Hamilton had an exceptional career 141 OPS+, and is in the HOF.
Don’t any of you people have a life??? A family?? A wife?? Me I just woke up dead this morning. That loss of an hour killed me.
I’m just trying to think of a team with a worse OF than Cleveland, that isn’t rebuilding.
Historically bad. 55 runs created is the sum of all the outfielders they pushed out there last year. Mercado was a -11.
Cleveland’s outfield took a lot of steps forward. Center field will have at least avg production, coming from DJ or A Rosario. LF is shaping up wonderfully with Eddie Rosario playing the stadium he hits best in, Josh naylor in rf I think avg. production or better is expected again. So all three positions with avg or better production? Are you following along?
Indians low key got better over the offseason. With less then spectacular offense and negative goose eggs in OF. Took an amazing player off a division rival. So the team that made the playoffs with a below avg lindor season, 3 holes in the outfield. They now have an avg or better ss and 3 holes filled. The rotation and bull pen are strengthened. Pitchers taking steps forward. Let’s sleep on the Indians. Lindor who did nothing in 2020 left, oh no!! How will we replace him?!
“Center field will have at least avg production […] A Rosario” Sorry dude, but unless we are thinking about a different “A Rosario,” uh…no. If the guy I’m thinking about sees more than two days as Cleveland’s CF, I would turn all my attention to the Browns’ pre-season schedule..
They got a lot worse simply by trading Lindor and Carrasco away. Eddie Rosario doesn’t come close to making up for those losses.
I hope so can love this guy
Hard pass.
In a normal year with less pitchers being carried, I’d consider Boston taking a flyer on him as a JBJ replacement. I really want Verdugo in right.
Maybe Hamilton should use my bat.
Wouldn’t matter. You still have to put the bat on the ball.
At least Hamilton’s body of work isn’t tainted. Imagine if it later turns out he was using George Jetson self propelling type shoes to run and jump.
No thanks
I remember when Billy Hamilton was supposed to break all of Rickey Henderson’s records. Not that there was ever a chance of that.
Can’t steal 1B.
Agree.
If he’d have been a halfway decent hitter, I still believe he would’ve had the base running ability to break all of Henderson’s records. The problem was Billy could just never hit. If he’d take a minors deal he’d be a great guy to stash for a contender. When the rosters expand, he’d make an excellent PR.
Nah. The stolen base is no longer valued, he would not have come close. In fact, no one will ever come close to Rickey’s numbers. Ever. Bet on that.
I don’t know. If they change the rules like they have in the minor leagues, you may see a ton of stolen bases.
Rickey was an *amazing* hitter as well as an amazing base stealer plus amazing longevity. I don’t think anyone will meet his record unless they combine everything – and that’s incredibly hard to imagine.
Rickey had a .401 OBP *for his career*, and did that *over 25 years* – and nearly every year was a full season. 13,346 plate appearances.. He was on base over 5,000 times, and he stole a base on almost 1/3 of those bases!
Ichiro was the closest we’ve come since, and he wasn’t *close* to Rickey. His (MLB) OBP was “only” .355, and he stole far less frequently (500 SBs in over 3500 times reached).
Besides talent, it takes a big ego. Henderson was great but his numbers are littered with meaningless steals. Had he played in the 60s. Gibson would have drilled him more than once.
Yup. Gotta be able to get in base in order to steal them.
Didn’t they trial stealing first in the Atlantic League? Where a batter could run to first on a wild pitch / passed ball. If they get that rule to the majors, maybe Hamilton can break for first on every pitch in the dirt.
amazing he never won one steals title. that’s what not getting on can do for you (though he was a NL leading CS giy ome
*guy one year, so)
He won the “caught stealing” title (23) back in 2014.
Just a reminder that Jean Segura while on the Brewers did manage to “steal” first in one of most bizarre plays in recent history. Barring Segura, you are correct.
Well folks, you can’t steal first base. If you could, he’d be a future HOFer
Tim Locastro can, but he’s a unicorn, so that doesn’t count.
No, he’s an international art theif. Get it right.
*thief* (get it right, LOL)
You got me.
Teams just don’t respect the pinch runner/late inning defensive replacement like they used to.
Cuz it offers virtually no value. Teams know this now.
Especially with 13-man pitching staffs. Hamilton is a waste of a roster space with his lack of versatility.
The 2004 Red Sox and Dave Robert’s say hello.
It will never get old looking at Roberts’ 2004 line: 2 G, 0 PA, 2 R, 1 SB.
Knucksie:
Bad comp. The SB was a key play, but Roberts did a lot more than Hamilton is capable of,to help the Sox win a title.
That was fast.
Boston bound?
Hamilton’s career might be near the end. He is 30+ and is a sub .300 oba hitter. His defense is good but there are younger speed and defense guys who have a higher ceiling who are better fits at the end of a roster.
Agreed. Someone will keep tryna sign this guy tho similar to I think jerrod dyson maybe that gets picked up a lot for playoff run steals instep his mid 30s. But with the game going younger teams are rightfully much more inclined to have a younger guy that has a better chance of getting a hit and saving them some $$.
Teams try to jam him into their roster with misguided ideas, then always realize their mistake and release him. Then, on to the next sucker, although I think MLB is finally catching on: he’s just not a worthwhile player.
Did he insult you personally, that’s a lot of hate being dished out.
Nothing personal against Hamilton himself, I just have a pet peeve about fans overvaluing players based on misunderstandings of value, such as overrating speed or not realizing how rarely a pinch runner makes an actual difference. No matter how many times Hamilton fails, there’s always a fan who thinks, hey maybe my team can get out of him something that isn’t there and that no one else could. I do the same with Puig and Matt Kemp, for example. Fading vets that fans want to believe will, against all logic, recapture their peak. League average hitting, below average fielding vets are NOT valuable. Guys who’s only asset is speed are NOT valuable. Nothing against the particular players, but yea these are issues that get me going. Nothing personal, no hate, but I see what you’re saying.
Cosmo2:
Agreed. I’m always surprised when a team picks Hamilton up, and never surprised when he’s released. It’s a shame too that pointing out negative aspects of a player’s skillset is called hating.
Dodgers? They have a pretty deep team that could probably use a late inning PR or defensive replacement. I can’t see an AL team taking him on.
An extra arm would probably be more important & beneficial. The Dodgers are more likely to carry 12 & 14. They have no need for a PR or defensive replacement honestly, it’s a wasted bench spot especially with no potential to hit. It would be better used on a RH bat off the bench. It’d be especially redundant with Taylor.
Health remaining equal:
I see the bench rounding out as
Barnes
Rios
McKinstry
Taylor
Nuese probably gets a look if there isn’t an extra arm.
He’d be nice to have as a LIDR and as the runner on second base for the 10th inning. But that’s a lot easier to justify as the 28th guy on the roster, not as the 26th.
Wonder if Rangers will take a shot since leody is struggling
@Hockeyjohn- it doesn’t seem like Billy Hamilton has much left anyway. He’s definitely a speed guy, he was even making a lot of mistakes on the base paths last season. Are you looking at one of the wild cards this season? I know your a die-hard like me. Best of luck with your health and your Indians. Talk to you soon!
With Cleveland’s starting pitching I see them in the race in the AL Central and AL wild card. Signing Eddie Rosario will help with some offense from the outfield. Amed Rosario will get some spring training games in the outfield since Andres Gimenez looks to be winning the SS job. Maybe he can also help there. Cleveland will still be a factor. I am well. I hope you are too.
Would be a good 4th/5th OF/platoon guy for most bottom feeders, where his 250 ABs would not be detrimental, but his glove/speed/defense could help. Colorado with its cavernous outfield may play, or Detroit until their pups can be brought up. Just spittballin…
Billy Hamilton actually would be an upgrade in DET.
I really was under the delusion that he would come to camp “in the best shape of his life” & be an option. I was wrong. Plus I think Daniel Johnson might play a little cf
Good. He stinks.
Hard to believe he’s only 30.
As an Indians fan, I breathed a sigh of relief.
no doubt. I’m getting real tired of having 10 part time outfielders. I’d rather have a consistent bad one so we know where to focus improvement efforts.
I will say , he was fun to watch his first couple years. Dude was electric on the base paths. He could go get anything in the outfield. At the end of the day, if he managed his money right, he’s still set for life with an average career.
The last thing the Indians need is another guy who can’t hit, but I was actually kind of hoping he’d make the team. He can still run and defend at a high level, and as someone at the end of the bench, you could probably do worse.
Granted, they have Zimmer and Mercado that fit similar profiles and they’re more familiar with them. Zimmer probably is what he is at this point but at least Mercado has a small chance of hitting well again. Obviously that wasn’t going to be the case with Billy.
Great fit for the Mariners as a backup
Not a fit for anyone as a backup. The only reasons Mariners fan might think otherwise is because he hasn’t been on your team yet. Trust me, after one month of play you’ll want to be rid of him.
Are you even a Mariners fan? Have you not taken a look at the 40 man ever? Lewis, Haniger, Kelenic, Trammel, Fraley, Bishop, and Moore at times when Shed plays and you think Hamilton fits? Where exactly? C’mon man
Dodgers
seems like a guy that pittsburgh gets
No thanks, we have enough mediocre CF options
I don’t see a roster spot for him with any team. His benefits are to limited to give him a spot with limited reserve position players.
I’m curious about his expected weighted on-base average on contact (XWOBACON).
He shouldn’t be expected to be on base or make contact. So zero?
Lol
Red Sox for if nothing else but late game defensive replacement since there is a good chance Franchy Cordero won’t be ready for opening day
Late inning defense replacements, statistically, make very little impact. Not worth the roster spot to bring on someone for whom that, and pinch running (another skill that helps a team about 0.00001% of the time) are the only thing they offer.
We have no real CF and will have Infielders playing games in the Outfield fairly regularly so there is certainly value in a player like Hamilton for the team. Also, its not like he is going to command a massive payday to sign
When he’s batting to an OPS+ below 70 you’ll be willing to put a corner OFr or an infielder in there, believe me. He’s not valuable as a bench piece. He’d be the amongst lowest WAR in baseball if you tried to play him everyday. You can find a CFr somewhere else. If they manage a OPS+ of 85, they’d be a significant improvement. No one wants him as their last bench piece but you think someone will succeed with him as an everyday player? Not happening. One week into that experiment and you’d be screaming for his release.
This is what gets my goat about this situation. Just playing CF and costing little doesn’t make him worthwhile. There are so many guys who play CF stuck in the minors who’d be no worse and cost even less. He can’t hit, he can’t play. Drives me nuts that fans think you can run a 70 OPS+ player out there just cuz they think they can’t find another guy to man CF. It’s just crazy. How many times does he need to be released? Does literally every team need to try this absurd experiment before they learn?
Did Hamilton run over your cat or something?. I get it, he brings nothing to the table offensively but he brings a glove and a set of wheels defensively. On a team that could have Marwin Gonzalez/Kike Hernandez/Hunter Renfroe in the OF at the same time even Hamilton can be useful. Besides the Sox are not going to spend on a Center Fielder and really just need a place holder til they decide Duran is ready. Take it easy. I’m not saying he is the last piece to a championship…
See my previous response. Nothing against Hamilton. But fans need to get a clue. Or don’t, but within 3 weeks you’ll be wanting to punt the guy into the harbor. His bat doesn’t play at the MLB level; fans in denial of this is what gets me going.
I’m in no denial and i realize completely how bad he is with the bat but its going to be hard to go from JBJ’s elite defense to Kike Hernandez. Having someone be able to come in and play the last couple of innings with stellar defense can help in the short term (again, until Duran is ready)
So find someone from someone else’s AAAA pile. I 100% guarantee that if your team signs him you’ll hate him within a month. Every fan base goes through this nonsense. After one week you’ll be begging for Kike in CF. You’re not grasping how unplayable his bat is, but ok, maybe you’ll just have to learn the hard way (but probably not cuz I think MLB has finally figured out what some fans haven’t). As for late inning defense: it’s not important enough to use the roster spot. Do the math. Exactly how often does a CFr make a crucial, difficult play to determine the outcome of a game in the last two innings?. It’s statistically microscopic. Trust me, the Mets went through all of this already, as has every other team he’s played for. (I call it the 4 stages of Billy Hamilton).
“It’s statistically microscopic” – where are you getting your statistics? If you can save a game 4 or 5 times a year with a great defensive play, that could mean the difference between first and second place at the end of the year. That’s what I love about baseball, strategy. Same with base running. 8th or 9th inning, down a run. You have Shrek at first base. Do you pinch run for him? Of course. A stealthy base runner steals second & a single drives him home. A single with Shrek on first gets him to second. Strategy. You just don’t pay a player like this more than 1 or 2 mil a year
Show me the stats that say you can “save a game 4 or 5 times a year” with a defensive play in the last two innings. At one specific position. Think about it. That probably only happens 5 times across the entire sport per season, if that. Ditto for pinch running. How often does the specific situation whereby a pinch runner scoring, in a play where the original runner wouldn’t have scored, wins a game for a team?. I’d say incredibly rarely. We’re talking about very specific conditions coming together as the difference in a victory. In the first case, specifically in the last two innings. It’s rare, at best. This is the crux of the misconception. The fact that guys like Hamilton go unsigned for so long and often get quickly released indicates that front offices get this, even if fans don’t.
Shorter answer: a good bat is more likely to be useful off the bench than a pinch runner who might steal a base (also might get caught which subtracts enormous value from the situation) and then might score (in a case where the “Shrek” wouldn’t) and lead to a victory that otherwise wouldn’t have been. It’s exciting and fun to think about, but not statistically a common happening to say the least… crap that wasn’t very short, sorry. I know I’m weirdly impassioned about this subject, but, hey, that’s what we’re here for, no?
I’d like to see the Phillies pick him up. I say this as a Braves fan.
Funny you should say that. I was thinking how great it’d be if he started (and lead off) 162 games for the Braves, possibly setting a record for playing every inning of every game. Please make it happen AA!
Was probably going to be too expensive at the league minimum.
Harrison Bader is the second coming of Billy Hamilton. Bery fast guy who cant hit. People that say he “improved” last year by hitting
226 are delusional. You cant steal first base!!!!
Bader career: .322 OBP, 93 OPS+…. Hamilton: .296, 67… no comparison really, Bader is much much better.
Bader actually gets on base at a good enough rate to where his speed is actually a potential threat. Has an OBP above .330 in two of the past 3 seasons. Hamilton has had an OBP over .300 once in his entire career.
Several years ago I saw Billy Hamilton lose a foot race to the Lake Elsinore Storm mascot (wearing a Bunny costume). It wasn’t even close. I often wonder if that Bunny could hit better than Hamilton too.
Guys like Hamilton are really only valuable later in the season during the home stretch/playoff push. A guy you bring in the 7th inning or later. He’ll never be more than that.
That value has disappeared due to late-season roster reduction. You can only add two guys.
its more then zero
Why did Billy not steal more bases with the Cubs?
Lack of speed or lack of late game skills by Ross?
johnnyringofwc:
Considering that he had only 10 ABs, with 3 hits and a walk, 3 SBs is about all you could ask for. If he didn’t have more SBs it’s because he didn’t play more games.
What I don’t understand is how he scored 6 runs, with only 3 hits and a walk. Plus he was caught stealing once. Did he reach base 3 times on errors?
I don’t know, but pinch running?
Red Sox? Replacement for JBJ?
Honestly I’d rather put no one on center rather than use Hamilton lmao
If there was an option for a designated fielder, Billy Hamilton would be pretty valuable.
You’re telling me that Jake Bauers has more value than Billy Hamilton? Bauers should have been cut first.
OIC2021:
Jake Bauers is 5 years younger, still has minor league options, who has a career OPS+ of 85, and a wRC+ of 88.
Hamilton’s career OPS+ is 67, and his wRC+ is also 67.
So yes, statistically, Bauers is about 20% more valuable than Hamilton as a hitter.
The argument can be made for defensive value, but that seems to be in decline for Hamilton. In DRS, 2016 was his best season when he had 18. But since then it’s gone down to 13 the next year, 10 the next, and then 8 in 2019. (Not counting the short 2020 season.)
Bauers doesn’t have options remaining, but Hamilton, even if he isn’t the defender he once was, he’s still in elite range with +9.3 UZR/150 between 2017-2019.
Only I man was credited with stealing first base in the history of the game. Look it up it’s for real. Can’t do it anymore because of him
Lou Pinella probably tried once or twice, but we’re probably talking apples and oranges here…
Tiger 2B Germany Schaefer
Pirates are on the phone right now reaching out to Billy. Here comes the Pirates backup center fielder
A hitter like Hamilton should never have a swing as portrayed in that photo. WAY too long a swing. He needs to 2 hands on the bat and controlling direction of his contact. Someone needs to make him sit and watch a few Wade Boggs, Rod Carew and Tony Gwynn videos.
Someone as fast as he his just needs to hit ground balls and get out of the box as quick as possible. From the left side, it should almost be impossible to throw him out from shortstop.
And once the infield moves in, it opens holes and makes it much easier to hit the ball past infielders.
Hey Billy, go watch some of the best women slap hitters and prolong your career another 10 years! I taught that for a few years and he might hit close to .350 with his speed if he learned to do it right.
Drive the ball into the ground around the plate toward the left side, watch it go up in the air and by the time it comes down, there isn’t even time to make a throw.
Ichiro was probably the last player to utilize something similar.
Whatever hitting coaches who have worked with him in recent years have failed miserably…or he has refused to listen.
Billy Hamilton is a future hall of famer. This is the worst decision made by the Tribe since trading Yandy “Biceps” Diaz, also a future hall of famer.
The rich get richer