They’re both in their late 30s and weren’t that great in the first place. Infante wasn’t much of a hitter after 2013 and Smith not much of a defender or runner ever
Kind of odd we never saw Smith after 2017. He was still a pretty solid hitter even up until then. 7 straight seasons with an OPS+ and wRC+ above 100 and only failed once to reach a dozen home runs in those 7 seasons as well. In his last season, he had a .774 OPS, .332 wOBA, 105 wRC+, 108 OPS+, and .176 isolated slugging percentage.
Shane or Sandy didn’t have better stuff.. I’m not talking about careers. I’m talking about the Degrom rn. Nobody has had a point where their stuff and location is as good.
In 5 years someone will write the exact same thing about the best pitcher in baseball at that time, just like someone made the same claim about Kershaw 5 years ago.
An out is an out. As long as the pitcher keeps the runs scored to a minimum, I truly COULD NOT care less how many strikeouts he had. Just get the batters out and give your offense a chance to win.
nvstr – Pitchers control the action via strikeouts. When the ball is put in play, anything can happen. Yes, pitchers have some control over the quality of contact, but the amount of randomness of the results – how well the ball is hit, where it is hit, where the defenders are playing, errors, bad calls by the umpire – has a significant affect. Keep the ball out of play by way of strikeouts, and pretty much only good things can happen for the pitcher. That’s why Ks matter so much.
Of course Pedro doesn’t have the stuff deGrom does. Pedro is almost 50 years old!
But seriously, it’s never easy to compare eras, even with stats that account for the differences. Given that, Pedro topped a 200 ERA+ five times. deGrom has done it once. Yes, he’s been otherworldly this year, but it’s been 29 innings.
For their careers, Pedro has a 154 ERA+ over more than 2800 innings. deGrom has a 153+ ERA over just under 1200 IP. Yes, he has the opportunity to improve that number – and almost certainly will – be he also has a decline phase coming as he enters his late 30s.
And while athletes continue to improve, the competition is not 10x better 20 years later.
You’re maybe the biggest Mets fan I’ve ever encountered, but that seems to be affecting your objectivity a fair amount.
Let’s give deGrom (lower-case “d,” upper-case “G”) some more time to demonstrate just how good he is. It really is amazing what he’s done the last few years, and I hope he’s a dominant force for quite a while longer.
Given his talent, and status as the best pitcher currently in the game, it amazes me that some Mets fans don’t know how to correctly spell deGrom’s name.
Regarding Adell trade proposals, its less getting rid of Adell and more recognizing a need for pitching. To get Marquez, Castillo or any high upside, controllable SP, the Angels return package will have to start with Adell or Marsh.
This is a really good point and my first thought too. The angels are a team that has a more clear need arguably than any other team in baseball that has a chance of contending. Not only do they need arms but a high end arms. That makes Adell who is in an area of relative strength an obvious trade piece.
I did enjoy the Andujar/Frazier/Schmidt (elbow injury) for Marquez/Story proposal in the chat. That trade doesn’t happen without Jasson Dominguez included.
Speaking of, I think everyone knows Max isn’t getting traded but if the Yankees were to somehow pull off a move like that it would require Jasson as well. Ken Rosenthal himself has convinced me that Trevor Bauer is right, he is a national gossip blogger.
About the Tigers being in the 5th year of a rebuild…….
Unlike the recent rebuilds of the Astros, Cubs, and Braves, the Tigers rebuild is primarily based around pitchers. Some of those guys are now just coming up. Pitchers take longer to develop, and even when they get to the ML level there’s a few years before they gain their footing. It’s easier to build with hitters, that’s cut-and-dried. We’ve seen the Jays do that as well.
The Royals have a nice rebuild going on. They’ve been bringing up position players for a few years – Mondasi, Lopez, Dozier, O’Hearn. Developing guys like Solar. Giving chances to guys like Phillips, Gutierrez, McBroom, Bonifacio, Starling, and subsequently moving on from them. But while Keller and Juris were up for a while pitching (and Juris is still debugging his game), it’s only recently that pitchers such as Singer, Brentz, Newberry, Zuber, Staumont, and Barlow are up and getting playing time. Not all will succeed of course. They deserve some time try to adjust to ML hitters. Plus there are other pitchers on their way.
It’s a whole lot easier rebuilding via position players than pitchers. Finding cheap, controlled, productive young pitchers in MLB is next to impossible. Teams have to grow their own pitchers else pay an exorbitant cost in prospects via trade or salaries in free agency. Al Avila and the Tigers are doing it the hard way. If they succeed the rewards will be great. But it takes more time.
Samuel: Re the Royals rebuild, don’t forget they have Bubic, Daniel Lynch, AND Jackson Kowar (in addition to Singer). All 4 of them were picked in the top 40 picks fr the 2018 draft. Asa Lacy is also projected to be a potential #1 or #2 starter as well.
Dayton Moore may be the best Baseball Ops guy in MLB. He doesn’t just acquire and develop players – he builds teams. Guys with talents that work off one another, and guys that are great teammates. Most of all, he makes sure leadership is in place, which is why holding on to Merrifield and signing Salvy to an extension was so important. Royals will get to the WS within the next 3-4 years.
It’s exciting to see the steps they made this year. It’s a pity so many think that building a MLB team to compete is like rotisserie baseball. Then again, I’m surprised at how many baseball ops people think that way. Fortunately for baseball fans that like to watch team baseball, those that are now running the Rays, Pirates, Red Sox, Dodgers, Phillies and a few others get it.
The Rockies and Jason Giambi both exercised their mutual option for 2012. That’s the most recent one off the top of my head. If there’s someone I’m missing I’m sure one of y’all will let me know.
anybody remember Seth Smith and Omar Infante? what happened to them they both sorta disappeared
They’re both in their late 30s and weren’t that great in the first place. Infante wasn’t much of a hitter after 2013 and Smith not much of a defender or runner ever
Both had their careers come to an end after the 2017 season. I don’t think either officially retired, interest was just not there from teams.
Kind of odd we never saw Smith after 2017. He was still a pretty solid hitter even up until then. 7 straight seasons with an OPS+ and wRC+ above 100 and only failed once to reach a dozen home runs in those 7 seasons as well. In his last season, he had a .774 OPS, .332 wOBA, 105 wRC+, 108 OPS+, and .176 isolated slugging percentage.
Degrom is the GOAT!
If time started in 2014, sure.
He won’t have the accolades some have but no pitcher has had the “stuff” that he has now.
Sandy Koufax.
There were others.
If Shane Bieber keeps it up (he’s been dominant earlier in his career)……
Shane or Sandy didn’t have better stuff.. I’m not talking about careers. I’m talking about the Degrom rn. Nobody has had a point where their stuff and location is as good.
In 5 years someone will write the exact same thing about the best pitcher in baseball at that time, just like someone made the same claim about Kershaw 5 years ago.
Bro it’s not like that. Just look at Degrom pitch. He has stuck out 50 out of 101 batters
Clearly never watched Pedro pitch.
An out is an out. As long as the pitcher keeps the runs scored to a minimum, I truly COULD NOT care less how many strikeouts he had. Just get the batters out and give your offense a chance to win.
@ MetsFan22;
So when you saw Sandy Koufax pitch, where did he fall short?
He’s 8, so yeah
nvstr – Pitchers control the action via strikeouts. When the ball is put in play, anything can happen. Yes, pitchers have some control over the quality of contact, but the amount of randomness of the results – how well the ball is hit, where it is hit, where the defenders are playing, errors, bad calls by the umpire – has a significant affect. Keep the ball out of play by way of strikeouts, and pretty much only good things can happen for the pitcher. That’s why Ks matter so much.
You think Pedro has better stuff than Degrom??
His stuff isn’t as good as degroms. The completion Degrom is facing is also 10x better.
@MetsFan22
Of course Pedro doesn’t have the stuff deGrom does. Pedro is almost 50 years old!
But seriously, it’s never easy to compare eras, even with stats that account for the differences. Given that, Pedro topped a 200 ERA+ five times. deGrom has done it once. Yes, he’s been otherworldly this year, but it’s been 29 innings.
For their careers, Pedro has a 154 ERA+ over more than 2800 innings. deGrom has a 153+ ERA over just under 1200 IP. Yes, he has the opportunity to improve that number – and almost certainly will – be he also has a decline phase coming as he enters his late 30s.
And while athletes continue to improve, the competition is not 10x better 20 years later.
You’re maybe the biggest Mets fan I’ve ever encountered, but that seems to be affecting your objectivity a fair amount.
Let’s give deGrom (lower-case “d,” upper-case “G”) some more time to demonstrate just how good he is. It really is amazing what he’s done the last few years, and I hope he’s a dominant force for quite a while longer.
Given his talent, and status as the best pitcher currently in the game, it amazes me that some Mets fans don’t know how to correctly spell deGrom’s name.
Lol
“ air quote deGrom.
Regarding Adell trade proposals, its less getting rid of Adell and more recognizing a need for pitching. To get Marquez, Castillo or any high upside, controllable SP, the Angels return package will have to start with Adell or Marsh.
This is a really good point and my first thought too. The angels are a team that has a more clear need arguably than any other team in baseball that has a chance of contending. Not only do they need arms but a high end arms. That makes Adell who is in an area of relative strength an obvious trade piece.
I did enjoy the Andujar/Frazier/Schmidt (elbow injury) for Marquez/Story proposal in the chat. That trade doesn’t happen without Jasson Dominguez included.
Need to add at least another good young prospect as well.
Yes, that one was quite funny. .
Speaking of, I think everyone knows Max isn’t getting traded but if the Yankees were to somehow pull off a move like that it would require Jasson as well. Ken Rosenthal himself has convinced me that Trevor Bauer is right, he is a national gossip blogger.
About the Tigers being in the 5th year of a rebuild…….
Unlike the recent rebuilds of the Astros, Cubs, and Braves, the Tigers rebuild is primarily based around pitchers. Some of those guys are now just coming up. Pitchers take longer to develop, and even when they get to the ML level there’s a few years before they gain their footing. It’s easier to build with hitters, that’s cut-and-dried. We’ve seen the Jays do that as well.
The Royals have a nice rebuild going on. They’ve been bringing up position players for a few years – Mondasi, Lopez, Dozier, O’Hearn. Developing guys like Solar. Giving chances to guys like Phillips, Gutierrez, McBroom, Bonifacio, Starling, and subsequently moving on from them. But while Keller and Juris were up for a while pitching (and Juris is still debugging his game), it’s only recently that pitchers such as Singer, Brentz, Newberry, Zuber, Staumont, and Barlow are up and getting playing time. Not all will succeed of course. They deserve some time try to adjust to ML hitters. Plus there are other pitchers on their way.
It’s a whole lot easier rebuilding via position players than pitchers. Finding cheap, controlled, productive young pitchers in MLB is next to impossible. Teams have to grow their own pitchers else pay an exorbitant cost in prospects via trade or salaries in free agency. Al Avila and the Tigers are doing it the hard way. If they succeed the rewards will be great. But it takes more time.
Samuel: Re the Royals rebuild, don’t forget they have Bubic, Daniel Lynch, AND Jackson Kowar (in addition to Singer). All 4 of them were picked in the top 40 picks fr the 2018 draft. Asa Lacy is also projected to be a potential #1 or #2 starter as well.
@ Prospectnvstr;
Yes, I know.
Dayton Moore may be the best Baseball Ops guy in MLB. He doesn’t just acquire and develop players – he builds teams. Guys with talents that work off one another, and guys that are great teammates. Most of all, he makes sure leadership is in place, which is why holding on to Merrifield and signing Salvy to an extension was so important. Royals will get to the WS within the next 3-4 years.
It’s exciting to see the steps they made this year. It’s a pity so many think that building a MLB team to compete is like rotisserie baseball. Then again, I’m surprised at how many baseball ops people think that way. Fortunately for baseball fans that like to watch team baseball, those that are now running the Rays, Pirates, Red Sox, Dodgers, Phillies and a few others get it.
Samuel
“Teams have to grow their own pitchers else pay an exorbitant cost in prospects via trade or salaries in free agency.”
Well said. Wish you worked in the Angels front office.
Yankees fans thinking they can get Scherzer
The Rockies and Jason Giambi both exercised their mutual option for 2012. That’s the most recent one off the top of my head. If there’s someone I’m missing I’m sure one of y’all will let me know.