Noah Syndergaard made his long-awaited return to the Mets this evening, firing a perfect inning as an opener in tonight’s win over the Marlins. It was the right-hander’s first big league appearance since September 2019, as Syndergaard lost all of last year and almost the entirety of this season recuperating from a March 2020 Tommy John surgery.
Syndergaard is scheduled to hit the open market a couple months from now, setting up one of the more interesting free agency cases of the offseason. At his best, the fireballer is one of the game’s most fearsome starters. He entered play tonight with a 3.31 ERA over 716 career innings, including a 2016-18 stretch in which he worked 368 1/3 frames of 2.81 ERA/2.42 FIP ball.
It’s difficult to know precisely what to expect from Syndergaard coming off two almost completely lost seasons, though. Teams aren’t going to place much emphasis on his results over a lone inning of work, but Syndergaard’s fastball averaged 96 MPH in his return outing. That’s not quite his peak level of arm strength, of course, but it’s sufficient velocity to assuage concerns that his stuff completely evaporated over the long layoff.
After the game, Syndergaard discussed his upcoming free agency with reporters (including Tim Britton of the Athletic and Deesha Thosar of the New York Daily News). The 29-year-old said he’s “fairly confident” he’ll remain with the Mets beyond this season, although he cautioned that statement was speculative as opposed to an indication the club and his representatives at CAA were on the verge of any sort of agreement.
The qualifying offer is one potential form a Mets’ return might take. New York could tag Syndergaard with a QO, which would be for one year and is expected to land in the $19-20MM range. If Syndergaard accepted the offer, he’d lock in another year in Queens. Were he to reject and sign elsewhere, the Mets would receive a draft choice as compensation.
Unsurprisingly, Syndergaard didn’t directly answer whether he’d accept a QO if offered. But he told reporters he’d “be extremely grateful” to be tagged with a QO, adding that that outcome would be “definitely something I’m hoping for.” That’s a bit counterintuitive on the surface, since being attached to draft pick compensation could have something of an adverse effect on Syndergaard’s market. It’s possible he’d simply appreciate the symbolism of the offer as a show of faith on the Mets’ part in his ability to bounce back next season. And a QO would at least give Syndergaard and his reps an additional option; players tagged with a QO have ten days to decide whether to accept, giving them some time to explore the market early in free agency while having a solid one-year salary available as a fallback.
Syndergaard is one of two key QO decisions the Mets will have to make this winter. They’re reportedly leaning towards offering one to outfielder Michael Conforto in spite of his generally disappointing 2021 campaign. There’s certainly merit to the idea of potentially bringing back both Syndergaard and Conforto on significant one-year deals. If they were to get a healthy season from Syndergaard and/or a Conforto bounceback next year, those salaries would look plenty reasonable and they’d be significant boons to the club’s hopes of putting this year’s second half swoon behind them and competing in the NL East.
Were both players to accept, however, that’d push the Mets’ guaranteed payroll up to around $175MM, in the estimation of Jason Martinez of Roster Resource, before accounting for an arbitration class that’ll include the likes of Edwin Díaz, Brandon Nimmo, Dominic Smith, J.D. Davis, Pete Alonso and Jeff McNeil. Those raises would take the Mets right up to or perhaps even past this season’s estimated $203MM player tab, and that’s without considering the possibilities of extending Marcus Stroman or Javier Báez and making outside upgrades. That’d leave the front office — and its still-unknown incoming president of baseball operations — potentially looking to trade away some established members of the roster, unless owner Steve Cohen is willing to dramatically ramp up spending in his second year atop the franchise.
Mets should sign Baez, Stroman, Syndergaard, and Conforto to long term contracts. Just for funsies.
Yanks, Braves looking a lot more feasible than it did earlier this summer, @Mohlers.
@Ducky I want to agree, but I won’t just yet because I don’t want to jinx it. Braves have sh%t the bed my entire life with one exception.
But I guess you and I are closer in our predictions than other known NL and AL east fans. Cheers to us!
It’s a bit early for a drink for me.
But, I will hold on to that “cheers to us” for an emergency situation.
Well, actually yes to Stroman.
I think they should QO both of them, although Conforto is a more difficult choice. I think they’d both accept, too. They both need a one year deal to rebuild value and hit the open market.
Though if either of them rejected it just to play elsewhere regardless of the type of deal they’d get, I wouldn’t blame them. Mets are a mess and I wouldn’t doubt there would be contending teams who’d offer either of them deals.
They both love playing here. You are clueless.
MetsFan22, Source?
His source is “dude trust me”
They both love playing for the Mets. They’ve never complained at all and Noah has been vocal about liking it here. What’s the source that they agree with the fan narrative that the Mets are a mess?
Few players talk bad about the team they’re on. Plus it could cost them money. We don’t know whether they like it or not, but I will agree that it’s foolish to assume they don’t.
Please cosmo site the example or examples of a impending free attack saying he hates his current team. A majority say they love their current team and wait till January and sign the biggest contract they can, with another team.
iverbure: what the heck is your point? I never said they weren’t open to signing with other teams. Thor said he hopes to get the QO yesterday. Neither has said they don’t like NY. Thor is on record as liking it. What does that have to do with me citing other players saying they don’t like their team? (Which has happened plenty of times, I don’t t need to prove that to you). What nonsense are you on about here? You’re reading things into my words or something. Von Purple makes a good point above, you? I dunno what you’re on about.
I seem to remember Syndergaard being very vocally critical about the Mets in the past as well as caring more about his brand at the time. It’s funny how an injury and threat to long term career earnings changes someone’s tune. Maybe he appreciated the faith and care that the team has put into his injury rehab? Time will tell I guess.
He’s definitely a character. I don’t remember him criticizing the team but they’ve criticized him plenty and he’s always played the good soldier about it. He’s been defiant about how they’ve tried to coach him but I think he realizes he’s gonna have that problem with any team as he’s stubborn and insistent on breaking the radar gun with every pitch.
@Cosmo: I didn’t say anything at all about Noah or Conforto thinking the Mets are a mess. I was simply stating a fact. If either of them are tired of it and want to play for a contender or on a team with less drama, though, I could see them going elsewhere, especially Conforto.
I’ll repeat what I said, if QO’ed, I think they’d both accept. I was just speculating on a potential reason if they rejected a hypothetical QO.
(just for the record, I’m a Mets fan; we *are* a mess right now. It’s fixable, but it’ll be tough)
Noah said in this article that he’s confident he’ll remain a Met. Also that he’s be grateful to receive a QO. To me, that’s very suggestive that he likes playing here. Impending FA who don’t like their team would not make those statements typically.
Just like they did with Jed Lowrie?
Or he likes the idea of $19-20m
I promise you regardless of what you and me think.. conforto and syndergard both think the Mets could win.
Seeing @Cosmo2 and @MetsFan22 oppose @rct makes me just want to sit back with a bag of popcorn and watch.
Why would you spend 20m on Conforto or Syndergaard when the AAVs for Marte, Stroman, and Gausman are all likely to be under 20m, and when the QO pick for Conforto (there’s no chance Syndergaard turns it down) if it even matters is only worth on average about $3.5m?
That $25M due to Cano in 2022 is such a huge anchor, weighing down the Mets. I don’t see a scenario where the Mets sign all 4 free agents (Thor, Conforto, Baez & Stroman) unless they are able to move $40M+ in payroll elsewhere but I don’t know if any team would be willing to take on the Mets veterans unless deGrom was made available. Even though their offense was the main reason for such a poor season, if the Mets can only sign two of these guys, they should sign Thor & Stroman and let Baez & Conforto walk. They can sign a mid market replacement for Conforto at 1/2 the money (if not less) and they really don’t need to replace Baez as his position is redundant on the team. Baez did swing the bat well for the Mets but he’s going to cost too much to re-sign. The Mets need to focus their spending on pitching & the bullpen.
You don’t see a scenario bc you don’t know who Cohen is. At least not yet
Cohen is Wilpon 2.0. Don’t forget he was part of Team Wilpon. If he tries a win-now approach in 2022, the Mets will be Orioles-like for years to come. Notice how the good teams don’t have an owner who insists on being in the spotlight?
Meanwhile, 77-85 here they come. Right, MetsFan22?
Cohen and Wilpon are nothing alike. Steve may not ever win a title, but to say he’s Fred/Jeffy 2.0 is disingenuous. So far, he’s a little more apt to pull the trigger and definitely willing to throw more money too.
Orioles have some good talent.. Hayes, Mullens,Mountcastle… need some pitching but more positive about some of the young talent that will be infused in after first few weeks of next season
exactly
I love how new and I mean the newest of fans like metsfan22, doesn’t understand the luxury tax. There’s a reason why all these teams aren’t busting through the tax every year. Once you bust over it’s hard to cut payroll and win, without you’re ignorant new fans asking why you aren’t spending more as you have a playoff team.
Hopefully the tax stays the same. That way if the mets do go over and they fail again it will make it extremely more difficult to win again next year. It will be hilarious watching the mets cripple their own franchise. Inevitably metsfan22 will then complain and say the rules need to be changed lol.
Ik what the luxuary tax is… the Mets will go over it for 3 years and go back down under and then repeat the process. It’s what rich teams do.
The luxury tax is more of an excuse than a reason, imho.
Not that easy Lets sign the Mets do what you are saying and hand out long term contracts to Baez Stroman Thor and Conforto. Thats about 90 mill in long term contracts. Then add Deg. You are now at 115 mill for 5 players with long term contracts Then Cano kicks in 23 mill per for the next couple of years with players like Alonso and Mcneil and Nimmo getting increasing money and heading to free agency. After 3 years pulling the plug and getting under the salary cap will mean not resigning Alonso and letting other players walk. It took the Red Sox three years and dumping players like Betts and Price for them to get under the cap. You can’t just snap your fingers and do it
Willy. Isn’t Linder logging in at 30million + a year?
We all know Cohen didn’t get his billions throwing money to the wind
And we also know he is a huge Mets fan. One of the only owners who grew up as a huge fan. It’s different. He also makes you’re owner look poor.
Having a fan as an owner is actually a bad thing in my mind. No one is more bias (one way or the other) about the current state of their team than a fan.
Come on Perry, go get Noah!
Baez and syndergard stro and conforto will all be Mets. The Mets will also add at least one other big player and then get more depth.
Conforto is the only one I see I could be wrong on. They might not keep him
Holy crap.
Fellas! He’s responding to himself now.
Season been a bit of a disappointment there, bud?
He is the only person who thinks his response deserves a reply.
You guys seem more interested in bullying MetsFan22 instead of actually talking baseball.
Grow up.
You must be new here.
We’ve yet to see you being right so yeah you have that going for you.
7 straight.
Got Cole going tomorrow.
The article clearly states that QOs to both Syndergard and Conforto would push the payroll to 200M+
So you’re saying they’ll sign Strohman for 25M and Baez for 22M plus another top free agent AND then on top of that get more players for depth?
Sure buddy, sure…
Gonna be a $280M sub-.500 team.
Baez will want more than 22 mil especially since his pal Lindor got a boatload of money
Yes! Sign them all and add someone else for big money.
Then watch as the Marlins pass them in the second year of all those contracts and clinch a wildcard.
The Marlins have 8 SP’s under 25/26 that are all expected to be in the majors next season. They can move at least 2 of them for big hauls. They’re in a dangerous spot. I want SF to move Bart and every prospect not named Ramos/Luciano/Estrada for Trevor Rogers, bring back Gausman and DeScalfani, and try to get Syndergaard on a 1-year “prove it” deal so he can cash out next year on a lucrative long term deal after proving he’s healthy enough to be worth offering such a deal. Otherwise, he’s looking at short term deals this off-season as nobody wants to commit long-term big money to a guy coming off his injuries.
Cool beans
Your second paragraph hits a little close to home as a Yankee fan, @Mohlers….big payroll, team in Florida, “pass them”…
I really hope they don’t waste money on Baez.
If the Mets resign everyone mentioned, they will struggle to score runs again. I think they move on for Conforto. He’s not a 20MM player. I agree they sign everyone else.
MetsFan22
Baez and syndergard stro and conforto will all be Mets.
=====================
So, if I am not mistaken, your payroll will be north of $250M, and will be largely the same team you have now?
Metsfan22 sincerely believes that Cohen is going to spend 1 billion dollars on payroll next year, I think. In another thread he also has them signing JD Martinez.
JoeBrady: yes. This is actually what so many Met fans are calling for. Actually the payroll would be more like 280 million when all is said and done. Destined to be the most expensive mediocre team in history. I think Cohen may actually do it.
“ The Mets will also add at least one other big player…”
Bartolo is a ‘big’ player. Maybe they’ll bring him back.
Maybe the mets are trying to establish the run, @bhambrave
They could sign Refrigerator Perry and Bartolo could play fullback.
Should have just kept Tebow to play FB.
If they sign all those gys you would have to figure it would cost them a minimum of 80 million dollars. In what world would the Mets go t0 280 million with basically the same team they ended the year with adding only Thor. If Mets management did that they should all be fired
I agree it would be foolish but it is what fans are clamoring for and seems like the team just may do it.
Not a Mets fan, but trying to speak objectively- they should clear the deck and rebuild. If they put DeGrom, Thor (if he accepts a QO) and a few others on the market they’d probably end up with a number 1 farm system. Dump Alderson, install new leadership top to bottom and THEN spend. If you can, dump Lindor. I know that’d probably be unpopular with Mets fans but that franchise has been running circles awhile.
@Cosmo2 been meaning to ask you this every time I see you on here and I always seem to forget. Is your first name Chuck by any chance? Cappers Mall , Ripple, Dr Jack? If not than disregard my question. Thanks
Also not a Mets fan Thor is a fa so he gets them nothing. Even in a trade for a 20 mill Thor for one year not much coming back. Deg has an opt out next year and is coming off major injuries. Whose going to give them a major farm system for that duo. Name all the other players getting back major talent. Alonso is the only name I come up with and the Mets are not giving him up. I think you are right about the rebuild but it will be long and hard. Dumping Lindor would be a great idea but having a terrible year and bad mouthing (thumbs down) your fan base not a great way to build a resume for trading a 340 mill dollar player.
If you sign all 4 , they’re not adding $80 mil, if their payroll now is $200 mil, you have to subtract what they’re making this year off of that $200 mil than add $80 mil. Ex. Stroman this year is making $18 mil so if you resign him it’s $2 mil added not $20 mil to the payroll
Heres what you need to know. Without any Cano they had a payroll at 203 mill this year. Add his 23 mill that would push it to 225 mill. Baez was not even a member of that team. You will have to add relief depth since your losing Familia and you probably need a new third baseman and at least one other pitcher so signing all of those players would put you in the 280 mill range and it would mean that over 60 mill of that would be going to second basemen (Baez Cano Mcneil. Now if that makes sense to you by all means… It would also mean that your outfield would probably still suck
Real question, how do you expect them to get under the luxury tax in 3 years if they do the things you’re fantasizing about? Are you expecting these guys to take short term deals, are you expecting some team to just take these contracts when the Mets need to ditch them, or… magic?
This off-season will be very interesting with the CBA. The QO could become moot if it’s abolished in the agreement.
I think the QO is a great option for both sides. If he’s healthy and performs, the Mets get plenty of value from Syndergaard despite the two lost seasons. Essentially a 3 years/$40M deal, which is a phenomenally cost efficient deal for a player with Syndergaard’s upsides.
If Syndergaard can’t stay healthy, he gets that life changing money that guarantees he’s financially set for the rest of his life even if he doesn’t make much more money through baseball.
If he can’t stay healthy but decides to keep playing, that QO salary makes it easier for the next team or the Mets to re-sign him in 2023 to as cheap a deal as possible for a bounce back contract, etc.
Either way, it’s one of those rare situations where a year deal at the Q.O. value is absolutely perfect for this particular scenario.
Three things:
1. Syndergaard has already made life-changing money with a career salary of $29.5M.
2. How many bounce-back contracts do you expect teams to give one player?
3. If the Mets gamble on Syndergaard and he flops, they will likely blow past the luxury threshold with nothing to show from it. Why do that when the rotation is filled with question marks? Wouldn’t it be better to abandon the win-now mentality in favor of developing a long-range plan to contend?
“Wouldn’t it be better to abandon the win-now mentality in favor of developing a long-range plan to contend?”
(Checks Google and sees that Jacob Degrom is 33)
Yeah, waiting is a terrible idea.
“Degrom is 33″…..If your whole plan to contend is based on one pitcher, Jacob Degrom, then you have already lost, because the better teams, Tampa, Chisox, Dodgers, etc, all have between 6-10 above average pitchers, between bullpen and rotation……The Mets have little depth and few proven hitters and at the very least, need to “reimagine” their roster, ala Seattle’s Jerry Dipoto, for at least a year or two and quit raiding the farm for artificial short term benefit.
These situations where teams try and hotshot their way to a title way too early just because they have a superstar getting older never works. See trout and angels. Always trying to win now usually results I’m not winning ever.
Cey Hey
I agree.the NYMs are going to go way crazy on the payroll, I can’t see them competing next year. If they just offered Syndergaard and Conforto a QO, but had to let Stroman go, they might be good enough to compete for a WC. And Syndergaard probably won’t accept anyway.
And 2023 would look far worse after Diaz and DeGrom leave.
If they tank completely, they can trade off DeGrom & Diaz for a serious haul. They have 6 position players, of varying quality, that will be here thru 2024. And they have a few prospects that should be here by 2023. I would write off 2022, sell everyone not here in 2023, try to let Lucchesi, Peterson, and Megill heal and develop. By 2023, they should be in position to add some FA arms.
Degrom has an opt out after this year and Diaz is an alright closer with one year before free agency. Also Degrom is ending the season after several injuries. Exactly what serious haul are you looking at. Diaz gets you very little and DeG will get you a decent haul but not what one would normally expect for the best pitcher in baseball.
Top-40 and top-80.
One year of Betts got a top-20 and top-70/80.
1.3 years of Berrios got a top-20 and a top-80
It’s hard to come up with good comps at this level of talent. And you need a team looking for a WS next year. I can easily see SD giving up on Abrams, and maybe another failed/injured SP. They gave up on so many young prospects, it is too late to jump off the train.
@ceyhey
Kluber is looking for #3 this off season, so we shall see.
I’m sorry but hearing the Mets and win now philosophy just don’t go together. When was the last time the Mets reaaly went for it. Was the Cano trade really going for it? No Last year getting Lindor and Carrasco but no relief pitching no other stud starter no big name outfielder. Do you really think they went for it? The Mets make one headline grabbing move a year to hide the fact that they still have a heavily flawed team and then count on NY media to give them a pass while attacking the better performing Yankees. It’s been that way for decades in NY
How is that good for the Mets, the money they’ve paid him is already gone, so no, it’s not a 3 year $40m deal.
Wondering what Noah’s going to be asking for. More importantly, what’s the market going to pay?
He’s already said he’s willing to take the QO. They may even work out a deal for less.
The article clearly states that “unsurprisingly, Syndergaard didn’t directly answer whether he’d accept a QO if offered.”
Where are you getting that he said he’s willing to take the QO?
From a different article. Those exist, ya know. He said yesterday he hopes they offer him the QO.
Yeah he said he hoped they would offer him the QO but he never said he would take it. He probably figures if offered the QO he can determine if there is a market for him if not he takes one year for 20 mill not a bad option.
Freeman will LOOK GOOD At 1B for
The METS In 2022
Alonso to DH
I like it but will the mets do it lol
Nah. Better ways to spend money than on a first baseman on the wrong side of 30.
Why would the Mets who are looking at a payroll disaster next year get a player who plays the one position other than shortstop that the Mets already have a long term solution for. The Mets have a weak outfield an injury plagued starting pitching staff bad relief staff no third baseman and a weak catcher so you suggest sign a first baseman. Duh.
Freeman isn’t going to leave the Braves to sign with the Mets man, c’mon now…
Conforto should definitely walk this kid is garbage. I wouldn’t offer him anything. So inconsistent and under performed his whole time in new York of course he would take the CO boras take him and go …good luck…2 million on a put up or shut up would be my offer
I agree it’s time to move on from him and get somebody like castilos he’s done nothing to win any championships for the mets very streaky
“Nothing to win any championships for the Mets”? Yea, cuz one player can do that. Give me a break.
But he is one player the Mets should move on from
I don’t agree. Even in an off year he’s not been that bad. Now, is he worth the QO? That’s a tougher question. But who do we replace him with?
Not been that bad? He has 12 hrs and a 223 ba. What exactly is your definition of not bad. He does have a WAR of 0.6 so I guess not bad equals better than a replacement player in your mind.
One player does make a difference look at whatc cespedes did for the New York Mets he was productive if a person is not productive it’s time to MoveOn.
Agreed. I like the home grown but isn’t the star that wa expected. Time to move on. Average corner outfielder.
I’m hoping the Giants trade Bart and every prospect not named Luciano, Estrada, and Ramos for Trevor Rogers from Miami. Or just Bart for Sandy Alcantra straight up.
Then resign Gausman and DeScalfani, and try to get Syndergaard on a 1-year “prove-it” deal to see if he’s healthy and allow him to test the market next year, in which he could land a far more lucrative contract if he shows he’s 100% healthy and contributes for 28+ starts.
A Rogers/Webb/Gausman/DeScalfani/Syndergaard rotation would be sweeeeeeeeeeet.
Highly unlikely, lol, but a boy can dream, can’t I? Gausman has been overall pretty damn good this year as our “ace”, but I think he’d be more than qualified as a No.3 starter. Miami has 8 SP’s under 26 that are all pushing for rotation spots, so I would NOT be surprised if they start shopping one or two of them♂️
Pretty interesting commentary, thanks….And yes, the fish are LOADED with young pitching…….
Thinking Joey Bart can get Alcantara is ;laughable. Alcantara is one of the 10-12 best SP in baseball, and Joey Bart is a decent catching prospect. Maybe if the Giants send 100 million in cash along with Bart that deal could happen..
Giants should give Thor a look! Plenty of money to spend this off-season! Short term, high AAV offer should be the move
Would slide in nicely behind Morton and Fried in 22 Braves rotation. Mets are a mess time to move on
Look how good Wheeler is once he left Queens.
They should have signed him. He’s good because he’s good; nothing to do with him leaving.
I would argue that he changed quite a bit since leaving Queens. He throws a completely different game. Whether that’s better coaching or something he did on his own…that’s up for interpretation.
Check out Wheelers stats in Queens compared to Philly. In NY he was a thrower now he is a pitcher. Mets will be thinking about what they do with Baez, Conforto, heck the Front Office. 2 GM’s in a span of 6 months. Manager? Cora is back in Boston maybe they do the same with Beltran.
“was a thrower now he is a pitcher.” What does that even mean? Just empty fan talk. He’s having a better season, further removed from injury, coming into his own. No need to suggest flimsy causation and resort to pure gibberish.
Pitching vs. throwing is a pretty popular industry term, especially in scouting.
Wheeler’s stuff hasn’t changed since NYM. Same cell, same spin rates, etc. Instead he’s learned how to sequence those pitches to better compliment each other and keep hitters off balance, such as throwing his curveball in fastball counts. He’s pitching instead of going up there and relying purely on his stuff. I don’t think and baseball-minded person viewed his comment as gibberish.
It’s a popular term amongst fans. If scouts use it it’s to dumb things down for fans consumption. It’s an empty, meaningless phrase. Scouts don’t get paid to throw around vague terminology.
It’s a term used that he is pitching smarter not just trying to blow fastballs past guys. Pitch selection, mound position and looking more to hit his spots. Has a better defense behind him too.
I don’t recall Wheeler ever being a guy who just tried to blow fastballs by guys. Thor is that guy, never Wheeler.
I do. Used his fastball to much. When he mixed his pitches he was at his best. Didn’t do that often enough with the Mets.
His Philly mix is about identical to his NY mix. Slightly higher on the FB Slightly lower on the curve and changeup.
According to FG.
#Lee Mazzilli for HOF
You are right and Ramos called to many fastballs and Dick Pic Callaway always left Wheeler in 2 to 3 batters to late!
now Wheeler is a pitcher “throwing” to a much better game caller in J.T. Realmuto makes any pitcher better.
That had a lot to do with it too. Remember charlie O’Brian. Catcher to the stars
Tim McCarver,personal catcher for HOFers Bob Gibson,Steve Carlton.
The Mets can sign all the players they want but the end of the day they are going to end up on the IL. In my opinion they should hire a good medical staff, it seems like every player that plays for the Mets gets injured.
@MetsFan22 so you’re projecting the Met’s payroll to be around $300 million plus? I’d let them all walk as I’d do with just about every other player on this garbage team. Why on Earth would you want to pay Baez the kind of money he’s gonna want? Also no team is gonna pay Michael Conforto even close to what he would get from accepting a QO. I get that the Mets would get a pick if he rejects it and signs someplace else but if they offer that guy that kind of money he’s gonna snatch it up and then they’re gonna pay him a bunch of money for poor production. Send him packing along with Baez. The Mets need to get out from under these bad contracts not keep adding them to their payroll. Why keep paying guys that aren’t helping you win? I have an idea how about the Mets stop trading away top prospects for huge dollar vets looking to coast.
Here is the kicker. 300 million and you get the same exact team and still lousy farm.
I wouldn’t want to “ramp up” the payroll just for the team to stay status quo with the players they had this season. McNeil and JD Davis may be dealt away. I also think, as much lack of depth that there is in starting pitching that dealing Taijuan Walker’s $9M annual salary might help as well. With the DH coming to the NL next season Id think that Dom and Pete would share that role. As far as Baez goes, I’m not sold, and I wouldn’t want to invest $200M+ in that guy.
His career kinda reminds me of Josh Johnson…
Due to his missed time I guessing he will get a one year deal to prove he can still be a top pitcher
“Top pitcher?” Let’s stick with maybe a starting pitcher.
So let me get this straight other major league teams sent Wheelers contract up to 5 years 118 million dollars for a thrower?. His era is indeed down but lets remember when pitching in NY Wheelers infield was atrocious so while his era has improved its probably due to a pitcher hitting his prime and receiving better infield play than to any difference in training he might’ve received from the Phillies. When he left the Mets everyone new the talent was there and he would be real good in the near future. I hate the Mets but I could always tell Wheeler had great stuff. If I could see that so could all of baseball. Thus the contract and the improvement.
You’re wrong about better infield play. Phillies defense is far worse than what Wheeler had with the Mets. I know that’s hard to believe but it is. Wheeler always had the talent. It was there with the Mets. He got better because of smarter pitch selection and staying healthy. Ironically you could make the case that Syndergaard does the same.
Von I checked and indeed found Phillies infield to be bad. I don’t believe they are worse tho. Realmuto far better than Wilson Ramos Ill take Segura over Mcneill Frazier was an over the hill player when the Mets had him JD Davis is a terrible third baseman and Rosario was real bad. Alonso was an absolutely terrible fielder his first year.While I accept Phillies defense was bad I don’t think it compared to the Mets mediocrity especially at catcher. I can;t see how it could be worse.
Alec Bohm, Rhys Hoskins and Didi Gregorious make that Mets infield look like Hall of Famers. I do agree about Ramos though.
100 percent right must better pitch selection. Threw to many fastballs in NY. Didt realize the infield was that bad.
It took Wheeler almost 3 years to fully recover from TJ. In 2019, he was a solid #2 or would have been a #1 on all teams that don’t have a deGrom. The annual money going to Cano is about the same needed to re- sign Wheeler. That trade is the gift that keeps on giving.
Still can’t get even with Diaz how that trade makes sense. I get taking on the salary for a top closer but to send 2 of your top prospects with it.
Both BVM & Cohen wanted to make a splash. BVM’s was more disastrous and incredibly shortsighted as he traded a minor leaguer playing a position with no organization depth (CF) who will likely turn out to be a perennial all star in spite of his underwhelming start. Cohen allotted $341 mil to a SS when the upcoming Free agent class would have given the Mets numerous and perhaps cheaper alternatives without the need to give up 4 prospects.
#RodKanehlJesseGonder
Totally agree and as far as Kelenic I would take him back in a NY minute. 14 home-runs and .260 OBP for a 21 year old that was jumping levels 3 per year. How many HR’s does Lindor have 19 as an established player for 341 Million?
Yup!
Resigning Baez and Confronto would be a Mets thing.
Both are solid and have upside, but both are inconsistent. They can replace that value cheaper.
@ Cosmo a thrower is a pitcher relying purely on his stuff and not learning to pitch to the weaknesses and hitters tendencies. Throwers think they can rear back and just blow 97 plus past a guy. Look at Morton’s start last night. He got ten punches but pitched his way out of jams with weak contact.
I seriously doubt Wheeler changed anything going to Philly. His career FB% is 61.7%. In his two years with Philly,he was at 65.9% and 60.7%. Pretty similar. His velocity is slightly higher with Philly, meaning he is throwing harder. He had a 3.48 FIP when he left the NYMs and a 3.22 in his first year with Philly.
He’s probably the same pitcher in Philly that he was in NY.
Mets sign Bryant, Castellanos
QO Thor and sign Gausman.
Thats it.
That would push them way over the luxury tax. I don’t see it. Plus the Giants are going to be looking to spend too, not just let everyone go.
That’s a $278m payroll and those additions are to a 65 win team, after you count FA departures. You don’t get particularly close to .500 even with those additions. Good luck.
As I said earlier Mets are a mess. Not just saying it cause I’m a Braves fan either. They had a chance like the Braves and Mets to lock down the division which NONE of the 3 did and now they are where they are at with 5 games to go. Heck, the Cardinals locked a playoff spot yesterday. As it stands today I look at them the same way I look at Anaheim wasting Trouts prime.
That’s a fair comparison, but the big difference is the Phillies have starting pitching. They didn’t have it until the trade deadline, but the finally have it. Wheeler, Nola, Gibson, Suarez, Eflin is a rotation I have confidence in. Keep in mind, Eflin was out for the majority of the year.
So while the Phils have plenty of holes, they do indeed have starting pitching. So that puts them slightly above the Angels in my book.
The Phillies I meant
Thor is a beast when healthy but paying a guy after this surgery for a year? Tough decisions if you figure 2016-2018 he averaged 122 innings a year. Not a workhorse type. Conforto for a QO. Only a NY fan would think that is a good move. Average 55 RBI a year , you could find a platoon player for 25% of that kind of dough.
What does average 55 RBI a year mean in respect to Conforto. In 2017 he had 68 in 2018 he had 82 In 2019 he had 92 In a third of a season 2020 he had 31 and this year he has 50 so far. How do you get to average 55 RBI a year whatever that means
Thor hasn’t had a lot of injuries.
2015 29 starts
2016 30 starts
2017 Missed almost entire season with torn lat muscle
2018 25 starts
2019 32 starts
It’s a lot of games, but not a lot of injuries. I like this type of risk more than someone who has chronic aches and pains.
IRT to paying a guy after the injury, this isn’t like some who had surgery, and starts pitching in April. It could take a couple of months to adjust. Syndergaard might be 4 months ahead of where Sale was in his recovery.
That said, that argues in favor of a longer contract. Losing a month or two of a one-year contract is a lot. Losing a month or two of a four-year contract isn’t so bad,
Thor essentially had 4 significant injuries. 2017 lat muscle. 2018 strained ligament in finger. 2019 hamstring. 2020-2021 elbow.
It’s certainly fair to call him a risk, but all you need to do is look at his former rotation mate, Zack Wheeler. Many people thought he was a huge risk as well, and he’s been one of the best the last two seasons. Thor will have no shortage of offers, but I think it best that he bets on himself by accepting the QO. He could pitch himself into a mega deal.
A “beast” with a below league average ERA+ in 2019? Interesting definition.
As a Met fan of many years I read the many comments regarding keeping players coming up for free agency, or coming off another off season, or a half season of productivity and then nothing. I ask this question: What makes you think these players are going to be any more productive if you give them more money. As Ralph Kiner was once told, “ We came in last with you and we can come in last without you. Why should we give you a raise?” Dump those who have been non productive, and get players who can produce. Potential when used too often becomes a polite way of saying he still stinks!
thanks Brodie for the mess
This guy hasnt pitched in 2 years and hes always injured. He should pay the mets to let him pitch.
1) Thor is staying in Queens. Some guys you can just tell have bought into an organization, no matter the lunacy associated.
2) Offer Conforto 2 years at 14 mil a year. If he walks, he walks. Nice guy, but not a world beater.
3) Re-sign Baez for a realistic amount. He’s streaky throughout his career, but has been an on base machine since going to Queens.
4) Trade Davis and Diaz for value. Keep Villar and McNeil around for depth. Have Loup/May/Familia as the back end of the pen to start the season. No need to sink more money or prospects into a closer just yet.
Im in favor of QOing Thor. Or even giving him 2 for 36 and options. Not in favor of QOing Conforto. Yes, hes above average but he seems so lost this year. I wonder if his shoulder is acting up or if he has another nagging injury that hes keeping to himself.
I would not try to sign Baez. Exciting player with a lot of up-side but seems to lack plate discipline and there are other middle infielders available.
Yes, Mets should pay Marcus Stroman. Long-term.
deGrom has a serious injury, I think. Mets PR and FO tend to be opaque so we wont know the truth. Truth telling about injuries is not incentivized in MLB. And that is true of players and owners
So we’re giving QOs to Conforto and Syndergaard at around 20m each, when the AAVs for guys like Marte, Stroman, and Gausman are likely to be under 20m? Very, very foolish.
With arb payouts to Alonso et al, commitments to payroll are already at $198m for a 77 win team losing about 12 WAR to free agency. It’s a 65 win team for almost $200 million. Bring back Baez, Loup, Stroman, and Villar, and you’ve picked up 2/3 of a Baez season compared with 2021 while adding $60m in payroll. Project those four for around 10 WAR in 2022 and for $258m you’ve got yourself a 75 win team still missing 400 innings from its rotation.
Cohen isn’t pushing payroll to $325 million. The Mets aren’t contending in 2022. What will be interesting is who is willing to come here, to a franchise already in bad shape after a decade of Alderson-Wilpon-Van Wagenen mismanagement, where the incompetent who did much of the damage is still hanging around for some ridiculous reason, with a new owner whose first year fits snugly into the worst five years of the Wilpon regime.
This is really, really bad. The Mets will be lucky to land someone like Michael Hill. Beane is 59. Do you truly believe an extremely competent exec who has been able to get one of the lowest budget teams into the postseason in 6 of the last 10 years is going to spend his last energetic stretch before retirement suffering through Cohen-Alderson-Mets nonsense?