The Padres are planning to have a healthy Mike Clevinger ready for Spring Training, per MLB.com’s Shaun O’Neill. The 30-year-old made just four starts in the regular season after being acquired from the Guardians midway through the 2020 season. Clevinger underwent his second Tommy John surgery, missing the entirety of the 2021 season. Clevinger’s absence was one reason President of Baseball Ops A.J. Preller went out and acquired Joe Musgrove, Blake Snell, and Yu Darvish last winter, though even those additions ended up being insufficient as injuries took their toll on the Friars.
Dinelson Lamet’s inability to stay on the hill certainly played a part, as the right-hander could not stay healthy enough to hold a rotation spot. He came off the injured list on April 21st, but made just one appearance before landing back on the shelf. He later missed another 66 days with forearm inflammation. He ended up moving to the bullpen, making 11 appearances in relief and finished with a 4.40 ERA/3.94 FIP across 47 innings. Lamet’s role in 2022 will be undecided until the spring, notes O’Neill.
They’re open to re-signing Tommy Pham, per Preller, but it’s going to be a numbers game now. The 33-year-old put up 1.4 rWAR in 561 plate appearances, leaving room for an upgrade, should the Padres find the right player. Pham’s contributions were suitable, though a .229/.340/.383 at the plate leaves much to be desired.
The Padres have some flexibility in the outfielder corners, where Will Myers, Jurickson Profar, and Adam Frazier could all see time next season. Ideally, however, only one of those three lines up at an opening day starter. There are plenty of corner outfielders available in free agency, however, so the Padres don’t have to rush a decision on Pham. Eddie Rosario, Jorge Soler, Joc Pederson, Kyle Schwarber, Nick Castellanos, Starling Marte, Seiya Suzuki, and Avisail Garcia are just some of the corner outfielders available, as well as more versatile options like Kris Bryant and Chris Taylor.
Man the Padres have had a lot of injuries. It makes me wonder if it is something the team is doing, particularly with pitchers. It seems they might be running guys out there when they aren’t quite ready and the injuries get worse. It seemed that way with Clevinger and Lamet. I also don’t really understand why they didn’t go ahead and have Tatis get his shoulder surgery. Isn’t Chris Paddack inured, too?
Lol
That’s why they let go of their strengthening coach.
This is exactly what’s happening. Compound that with a weak inexperienced manager that doesn’t know when to shut them down. Adrenalin is a hell of a thing when combined with competitiveness. Players may not realize short term pain can result in long term problems “in the moment”, but the Manager should. But Tingler never did “have their backs” (although we know he was just the lackey).
If I recall correctly, Clevinger’s health was a bit when he was acquired and this was known to both teams. The extent of the damage to his arm was not known then, but didn’t they get him at a discount from Cleveland?
A bit *iffy*
Padres should have voided that deal for bad medicals.
Agree @SportsFan0000
Did you think they should have done that when they made the trade of just after he got Tommy John?
How was that a “discount?”
I’m guessing your question is mostly about Quantrill. His bloated FIP and uninspiring K-BB numbers indicate regression coming after an impressive partial 2021.. He may end up being a solid #4 SP in his career, far different from Clevinger’s upside. Hedges and Naylor are fairly low ceiling players.
@paddyo875 Quantrill is already better than Clevinger (whose future is likely in the bullpen) and either way, the Padres only get Clevinger for one more year.
And that’s BEFORE we get to Hedges, Naylor, Arias, Miller and Cantillo.
Clevinger just had his 2nd TJ surgery. He has no upside. Just downside. Of 45 MLB starters that have had 2 TJ surgeries, only one ever went on to be successful as a starter and even his 1st year back was a 4.57 ERA in 19 starts. That is the best the Padres can hope for from Clevinger.
@pads fans, your data is false.
In 2016 Nate Eovaldi had his second TJ surgery, missed 2017 recovering. In 2018 he made 21 starts in his return from that second TJ combining for a 3.81 ERA combined between the Rays and Redsox. He also came out nicely in the playoffs – 3 starts, 26.1 IP, 15H. 3BB, 5RS combined
He had a rough 2019 for a number of reasons. But posted as a 40 yr old a 3.72 era in 2020, and as a 31 year old a 3.75 era in 32 starts as an Allstar in 2021.
The edits timed out before I could add, but eovaldi in the 2018 playoffs, in his TJ return season, started 3 games, for a combined 22.1IP, 15H, 3BB, 5RS. All around a very impressive campaign coming off a second TJ playing some really good teams in the AL east and playoffs.
There have been more than a few starters now that have had two TJ surgeries and come back successful.
You should check your “facts” before you just spit stuff out.
@jim….I’m guessing your assessment of Cleviinger and Quantrill is one fraught with bias.
Cal’s impressive partial season carries with it (again) a FIP of 4.07 and a K-BB of 2.5. This partial season is below Clevinger’s typical output, and this was Quantrill’s best production at the MLB level.
To put it more simply as you did not.provide any stats for your point, Clevinger has elite stuff (albeit on a slight frame that does make one worry), Quantrill has middling to slightly above average stuff. Maybe if Quantrill had elite control, he could.continue his 2021 production. But that would not be a smart bet to make.
@paddyo875…
Ya know, it is possible for a pitcher to succeed based on an ability to induce weak contact rather than doing so via the almighty strikeout.
Clevinger HAD elite stuff. He is now on the mend from TJ #2. The track record of pitchers returning from TJ #2 says that any future success Clevinger might have will come as a reliever. Oh. And he’s a free agent after 2022.
And Quantrill wasn’t the only guy the Padres gave up in that trade.
FIP is a non-stat. It’s based on assumptions with too many variables. It’s nearly as useless as WAR.
Yes, it was at a then discounted price when the Cleveland INDIANS,not the GUARDIANS, traded him to the San Diego PADRES, NOT the S.D. Fathers. The FATHERS don’t exist and the GUARDIANS didn’t exist until the 1st day AFTER the official end of the 2021 season. LET’S GO BRAVES!!!
You can’t just give guys surgery because you want to. If the team doctors declared Tatis doesn’t need surgery, why would Preller go over their heads and make him get it? Doesn’t make sense
Um….the Padres can’t just “go ahead and have Tatis have the surgery”.
He’s under contract to play baseball for the Padres….but they can’t force him to undergo a surgical procedure if he doesn’t want too.
He’s a human….not a machine.
“I also don’t really understand why they didn’t go ahead and have Tatis get his shoulder surgery.”
That decision is the player’s alone. The Padres had nothing to do with it, other than as Preller put it, “present all the facts”, i.e. make certain that he’s getting the best medical advice.
It’s not a simple decision for Tatis, either. What did his doctor tell him? We don’t know. What’s the percentage of success, of future recurrence, viability of future surgeries, or does having surgery now mean that he’ll be unable to correct future problems with his shoulder? Does having shoulder surgery at age 22 mean that he may be out of baseball by age 30?
I don’t blame Tatis for taking the conservative route. For ANY physiology related problems (like my permanently crippled left ankle), rehab and physical therapy is always the first recommended, and ultimately the preferred choice.
Tatis didn’t have shoulder surgery, because Tatis didn’t want it. Almost the same as Lamet wasting more than a year because he was trying to avoid his second TJ surgery.
It’s the player’s decion, not the team’s.
This isn’t snark, but is the official way it’s being handled to refer to Cleveland as the Guardians even for past events when they were the Indians? I get that it would be clunky to add a (fka Indians) everytime, but the retconning makes it slightly weird to me too. Not seeking to criticize, just wondering if there’s an actual standard being used.
I was wondering the same.
“Retconning” – had to look-up the definition. Interesting point.
Retconning applies to fiction or movies or a play. Does it really apply here to a major league baseball team? Fancy word used incorrectly?
The writing of this article is not a past event, though. They are known as the Guardians when the article was written. I agree this is a hazy topic, but when you think of the reason for the name change the goal should be to avoid the previous name as much as possible.
I’m offended by the name YANKEES because of my relative fought for the South during the Civil War. I demand that the New York (American league team) change their name.
I wouldn’t be so quick to admit that shameful family history in public! If your relative was indeed a traitor, then you should probably settle for being thankful for the government’s mercy that you are still allowed to live in our great nation today. Second chances should be appreciated.
@ CO …
Why don’t you take a history class instead of embarrassing yourself by advertising your ignorance of the Civil War.
He’s right. They were traitors, snowflake. What history says that seceding from the United States is not traitorous? You’re all over this thread posting in all caps over team names. It’s embarrassing. The Braves should change their name to the Atlanta Ashes to honor General Sherman burning the confederacy to the ground.
Secession was a Constituional right of the states. Based on how well you “know” history, you’re the ignorant snowflake. You want me to recommend some actual books (assuming you can read)?
Did you know that Massachusets was going to secede in 1834? I doubt it.
The Cleveland Guardians former name now suffers from Chuck Cunningham Syndrome.
Have some respect for recently deceased. Chuck C., RIP
I would put both if they played for both. Like Livan Hernandez played for the Expos/Nationals, Pedro Martinez played with the Expos, Ryan Zimmerman plays for the Nationals. Since Cleveinger played with the Indians and not the Guardians, I’d say that Clevinger played with the Indians/traded by the Indians. When we start next season, I’d say that Jose Ramirez plays for the Indians/Guardians. Any Cleveland rookie now I’d just say they play for the Guardians.
I know this was confusing, but it’s how I would write it.
I don’t think this is a fair comparison, since the reason for the name change is completely different. Cleveland had an offensive name, and the spirit of changing the name was to move past that. While saying what you are suggesting is not “wrong,” it is offensive and perpetuating the notion that the former name was okay. I personally believe as a human race we should try to avoid offending people for the sake of semantics. My goal is not to change your mind, though. This is a difficult subject.
Offense is taken, not given. The name of a baseball team is a difficult subject…first world problems.
DoritosLocosTaco: I’m offended by your username because (A) Someone stole my
Doritos from my lunch when I was a kid. (B) I was accused of being crazy (Locos) and (C) I got sick after eating a taco. Your username makes me remember & relive these TRAUMATIC EVENTS in my life. For these “reasons” I demand that you change your username.
Yeah, sure Doritos.
It “suddenly” became “offensive” just so a handful of ignorant “woke” control freaks could signal their faux virtue.
CLEVELAND INDIANS!
Lol. All caps. He’s serious guys.
That Clevinger trade was terrible!
Proofread MLB – its WIL Myers not Will Myers, Your link maps to a college player.
lolZencka strikes again
Zencka never fails to disappoint.
A lot of armchair criticizing for a completely free app. While we should all strive to speak and type with proper grammar and accuracy, it’s fairly petty to point out in this setting.
It’s also annoying; one of Demetri Martin’s best lines is how he maintained his virginity in high school by correcting others’ grammar.
Pointing out a wrong liink no is just laziness on a reader’s point….Dude! You already on the BREF site-just type the name from there!
But users pointing out minor errors(wrong link are not actually trying be helpful.
And what does it mean that Pham’s contributions were “suitable”‘?
Suitable for another team besides the Padres
They are pointing out minor errors because there are minor errors in damn near every article on this site. It is not a minor issue, the quality of this site has completely tanked
Telling an author they’re linking to the wrong player isn’t trying to be helpful? I guess you’re entitled to your opinion, but probably don’t act like it’s a fact.
you’re free to stop reading
Pathetic wokeness referring to Indians in 2020 as the Guardians
It isn’t 2020 anymore, they are now the Guardians.
Just spin the records Mac. Ahahahaha!
During the 2021 the MLB team that played their home games in Cleveland were called the Cleveland INDIANS. That same ballclub will be called the Cleveland Guardian’s going forward but upto AND INCLUDING the 2021 season they were the Indians for generations.
Damn you folks are really triggered by a name change.
Cute lil nutjobs
@skullbreathe…..Maybe mouth breather would be a more appropriate name.
You are acting like a sensitive Sally. Its the Guardians now, I like the name
The fact that this bothers you is sad yet hilarious.
stop with the made up words
Funny how people like you complain about “wokeness” and “people being so easily offended” yet here you are being easily offended by something as trivial as the name of a baseball team.
It’s trivial…unless it’s a naughty word, then it needs to be changed. Self defeating argument given the subject here, but please continue to think you’re clever.
It’s not trivial. Not in the big picture.
Define wokeness. If you mean a team making a minor change to
The Padres are a clusterf***. If they keep Dinelson Lamet or Tommy Pham, we all know that AJ Preller has a mental illness.
Cutting Lamet free and offering a minor-league deal that’s incentive-laden is the only way to go forward with him. The dude is a really big guy, but he is so fragile.
Just say no to Tommy Pham. He’s a bit of a social cancer; clubhouse and smarts-wise.
Usually. When someone calls a player a clubhouse cancer, they are required to have proof of it.
Your proof?
I live in the area and people in the media (writers and TV/radio) have all recounted stories. On air and at live events.
@CrikesAlready So all anecdotes and speculation with no documentation or source names to back it up?
K
You’re the type that sits in mommy’s basement and “does his own research” and waits for Q drops about pedophiles eating adrenochrome with OAN in the background while getting excited by Trump fan art of the fat beta with big muscles.
@ dock …
I truly pity you. Just remember: ignorance is curable.
@CrikesAlready Proof. Not ad hominems, proof.
You want someone to provide proof when they make claims; have you been in a coma?
Agree, Lamet is taking up a roster spot, and Pham is a mendoza line outfielder.
Why tf would they cut Lamet, are you braindead?
He’s been hurt a lot and he’s no longer a prospect. He’s been more frustrating than fulfilling.
Try streaming Coach John Kentara (97.3 San diego.12 noon to 3 p.m. PT weekdays).
Wouldn’t cut him. I’d make him a pen piece full time. Fastball slider. Not his fault he got hurt and spent all 2021 recovering. Give him a full off-season to work as a pen piece. Worst thing you can do is cut him for nothing when he has 2 more years of control.
Bad Front Office and Medical decisions Tatis Jr need surgery.
Padres have over 300M sunk into Tatis and his contract/.It should give the Padres some leverage.
Pham should not be resigned.
Myers and Hosmer should be jettisoned also.
Play CJ Abrams in CF or RF if Tatis Jr is healthy.
Find another clutch hitting OF who can hit, defend, has speed. (Starlin Marte?)
Jurickson Proffar is another Ex Rangers player (AJ Preller) who struggled to hit above the Mendoza line. It is a “no brainer” to dump his (3) 1M per year options, pay him the 3M and save 22M.
Padres need clutch, producing, offensive players who can play defense.
Padres have too many marginal position players and bench players.
Time to weed out the weeds and plant some new players on the team.
Totally agree. Players like Profar and Pham are a dime a dozen. SD could bring in more productive pieces for just slightly more. Profar is and has always been fool’s gold.
In My Opinion, we are stuck with Profar, Kim and caratini already. All back ups can’t be everyday players based on 2021 stats. Pham also. Profar’s contract was a mistake. But he does provide insurance in case they can’t trade Hosmer and have to trade Wil Myers instead. He also becames the new Tommy pham, a 4th outfielder, and DH option only. Even gresham is better than Profar, who CAN be better, just like he was in 2020 and 2018. But 2019 and 2021 not good at all. Clev is a long term adquisition so is Austin Nola, but more is needed from those 2 moving forward. With Lamet, playing him 5 Million hoping he’s the new closer is a huge Risk, i would no tender him, or work something out there
If Nola is healthy and with the way Campusano played in AAA at 22 years old, Caratini and his 79 OPS+ is expendable,
Kim put up a 2.1 WAR, about league average for a starter, based almost entirely on his exceptional defense. He will be back in 2022 as a backup with the hope that he can start to hit better.
Profar was worse than Hosmer at everything. Just release him.
Myers put up a 113 OPS+ with adequate defense. No reason to trade him. Just get a solid OF bat like Castellanos and keep him.
Clevinger just had his 2nd TJ surgery. Don’t expect much from him. A mid 4s ERA and 15-20 starts is the BEST CASE scenario.
I agree with you about Lamet. Other than a short season in 2020, what we saw in 2021 is what he has been his entire career. No reason to pay him $4.5-5 million. Work something out on an incentive based 2 year deal with a $3.5 to $4 million guarantee. Maybe add an option year that puts his total guarantee at $5 million. IF he can stay healthy then he can make that $5 million AAV or more. IF not the Padres lose little.
Go out and trade for Manaea or Montas. That would solidify the rotation and allow the Padres to move Paddack in trade.
Kim … “based almost entirely on his defense.” Yeah, those “problematic” defensive metrics. To be fair, he definitely passed the eyeball test.
Here’s a “no brainer” they’re player options not club options. And Profar say I want ALL my money fool. I’ll be stayin & you’ll be payin. Ahahahaha!
Now that Myers is finally in the last year of his contract maybe just maybe the Padres will be able to trade him, even if it means eating a large portion of it. After that, sign Castellanos to play RF and either platoon Frazier/Profar in LF or sign another Left Fielder (Joc Pederson, Eddie Rosario, maybe Adam Duvall) and once again hope that Darvish/Snell/Musgrove/Paddack and Clevinger can get the team to the playoffs
Cue Pads Fans/Koamalu jumping down your throat for speaking ill of Wil Myers.
Why trade Myers? Who on the market is better? He put up a 113 OPS+ and played adequate defense. So who are you replacing him with and what is the cost?
Profar was absolutely astonishingly bad last season. 83 OPS+. Horrible defense. He is certainly not the answer. Pederson had a 91 OPS+ and only 101 OPS+ against RHP. Not an upgrade. Rosario had a 98 OPS+ and will cost between 2/15 and 2/20. Myers career OPS+ is better than either of Pederson or Rosario. SO, Myers stays if those are the options.
Castellanos would be a great signing. He would play RF and DH and Myers would move to LF as the starter.
Frazier is a 2B who has 66 career starts in LF where he has been below average. He could be an occasional fill in in the OF, but not a regular. He will either start at 2B or Cronenworth will.
To get to the playoffs the Padres are going to need another starter. Manaea, Montas, or one of the FA like Stroman.
You hit the nail on the head. No reason to trade Myers. Just add a really good bat like Castellanos to that OF and the Padres are set in the OF. Still need help in the battery.
$23M?
Clevinger is coming off his 2nd TJ surgery. One starter out of 45 have come back and pitched effectively as a starter. ONE. That starter put up a 4.57 ERA in 19 starts his first season back and it took him 4 years to have a decent season. Expect the same from Clevinger. A 4++ ERA in 15-20 starts. He would be better off just moving to the pen.
Lamet was not effective out of the pen putting up a 5.09 ERA in a small sample size of 17.2 IP over 13 games. Other than 2020, Lamet has been exactly the pitcher we saw last year. Expecting anything more is not realistic. Still a valuable fill in when others get injured.
Padres still need one more solid starter. The A’s are dismantling the team and have two that fit the bill. Manaea and Montas. Obviously Melvin is familiar with both. Manaea would be cheaper to acquire because he only has one season of team control left.
Pham is going into his age 34 season and has been in decline for 3 years now. He has a degenerative eye disease meaning it will not stay the same or get better, it will only get worse. Batters need to see the ball. Just say goodbye to him.
Myers and Frazier should both line up as everyday starters, especially if the NL gets the DH in the new CBA. If the Padres are looking for an upgrade in the corners then sign Castellanos and move Myers to LF. Then the OF is set.
Profar is a sunk cost. He is below average with the bat (90 career OPS+ and an even worse 83 last season) and he is a defensive liability at every position other than 1B. He makes Hosmer with his 104 OPS and 3 DRS last season look like a great player. Padres can’t trade him so best thing to do is release him.
Not disagreeing that success stories after a 2nd TJS are limited, but I think we also need context. First, the list of MLB pitchers who have had a second TJS in the nearly 50 years since the first one was performed numbers around 40. That’s a small number. Second, we have to look at the age of most of these pitchers, as most were well into their 30s. Third, the quality of those pitchers was not particularly high at the point of the second TJS.
Expecting greatness, or even effectiveness, from most of these pitchers isn’t that reasonable. There is more than one, though, although I’m not quite sure who the one pitcher is you’re referring to. Chris Capuano had a 4.39 ERA in over 700 innings from 2003-07, and then he had his second TJS. He returned and had a 4.37 ERA in another 700 innings post TJS, although his innings became more spread out over multiple seasons, but he was well into his 30s. Bottom line, though, is he returned and was effective compared to what he was prior. The more relevant comparison is Nathan Eovaldi. He not only returned, he’s actually better than he was prior to his second TJS. He’s more relevant, because like Clevinger, he’s a hard-throwing righty in his peak years, and he’s returning while still young.
I’m more concerned that Clevinger will be limited in his innings than I am about his effectiveness. The Padres are going to have to monitor his usage, especially if they want to have him still available for the postseason.
It’s not that Clevinger can’t be effective. Just that it will be as a reliever.
The one pitcher is Eovaldi. You say 40 is a small sample size, then use the sample of 1, Eovaldi, to compare him to? Maybe that’s not how you meant that statement, but it does seem odd to question a small sample size, while also citing one.
45 MLB starters including Clevinger have had 2 TJ surgeries and the first to attempt a return was in 1999. OF those that had a 2nd TJ, only 6 were over 30 and 3 of those were 31 or 32. 39 were 30 or younger when they had the 2nd surgery.
The only ones included in that count were regular starters in the majors. Only a handful returned as starters at all and only one was as good or better than before the 2nd surgery.
The odds are very long that Clevinger will be a starter at all (5 in 45) and even longer that he will be an effective starter afterwards (1 in 45).
I apologize. Eovaldi was as good after, just not better as a starter.
Eovaldi had a 4.14 ERA as a starter before the 2nd TJ and a 4.13 ERA after the 2nd TJ. 45 is a small sample size of starters that had the surgery twice, but 1 in 45 or even 2 in 45 is not good odds. You can’t discount small sample size and then mention and even smaller sample size of just 1. The other number you are not mentioning is that only 5 guys ever returned to starting after the 2nd surgery. 40 of 45 either didn’t return at all or became relievers.
We still need starting pitching pitching. Period.
I am dumbfounded by the number of fellow Padre fans who seem to believe that Clevinger is going to come back and be an ace the moment he takes the mound. Come on, folks! Think! You’re giving us all a reputation for “low baseball IQ.”
Capuano was 28 when he had his 2nd TJ surgery. Eovaldi was 26. Clevinger was 29.
Correction: he was acquired from the Indians in 2020.
I was thinking the same thing. They were not the Guardians at the time of the trade.
They’re going “disappeared from the photo standing next to Stalin” on the Cleveland Indians.
Screw Myers, Profar, Pham and Frazier…….They had enough shots !
If I was the Padres, I’ll go after Castellanos and Marte, then use Myers as a motion at 1B or trade him.
1.Grisham CF
2.Marte LF
3.Tatis Jr. SS
4.Machado 3B
5.Croneworth 2B
6.Castellano RF
7.Hosmer 1B
8.Myers DH
9.Nola C
How can the author of this article write that Clevinger was acquired from the Guardians? Factually incorrect! Clevinger never played for the Guardians. I guess Trade Rumors is going the way of all media outlets of today, they just don’t care about accuracy if they have an opinion on a subject. They can write anything I guess.
Post surgery from the stabbing Pham was physically weak (couldn’t work out) thru the first half of 21. He really caught fire during June- early August and was given all star consideration before slumping badly end of season. His strength is back ( evidenced by hitting 2nd longest HR in mlb), and there’s a real likelihood that improves in 22 as a bargain. If Pads can get a better player they should, but Pham isn’t so bad as some are posting here.
I really hope Clev and Lamet find their way back. The Pads could use some positive news on the health front. But I’m guessing they will bring in 2 SPs to add depth.
Great time to be a Padres fan. Dream big! So many holes… And garbage available… Bring on the kids trade for more I like the idea of trading with A’s … Reds. Hoping for a feast by T-day. Let’s go Padres.
Afterthought…it’s been burning me up for awhile…The Pads need to handcuff Chris Paddock to Randy Jones. Make him watch all his video and learn to walk the walk they seem very similar in capability. Only the results differed.eye of the tiger big boy pants whatever you want to call it..
When it comes to pitching, Jones and Paddack have nothing in common. Nothing.