Click here to view the transcript of today’s chat with MLBTR’s Anthony Franco.
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Grinches complaining about chat times are so ridiculous. It’s baseball talk, not doctor appointments. No set schedule because stories can break at any time, deal with it.
I agree. I would also love to hear the explanation from Anthony Franco about his last article, though. If the players want “a piece of the pie” why is it okay for the owners to lose income but not okay for the players to also lose income?
@ Please, Hammer. Don’t hurt ’em.;
Read my response to your comment under the article.
Fixed pie fallacy is all the rage these days
You’re reading more than intended into that post; I’m generally agnostic on the revenue split. The player-owner relationship is adversarial at times, and they’re going to bicker over their “portion of the pie,” but I don’t have much of a rooting interest regarding the game’s financials.
The parties’ conflict on revenue split is a big reason why there’s a work stoppage. The previous post was simply to provide some data/context for readers on payroll trends that contribute to that. Spending on players ticked down, disproportionately as it regards the middle class of free agent. The pandemic no doubt contributed to that, but some of those patterns were falling into place before COVID and that’s going to be a concern for the union.
Yes. I noted something similar answering the OP’s question in the other thread. He seems sort of bothered you’re presenting the players’ view during a lockout that’s driven by the owners’ reaction to the asks of the MLBPA. It’s important to understand the view of the MLBPA. How entrenched both sides are will determine when we’ll eventually have baseball. You didn’t seem to be siding at all with the MLBPA or the owners. Just an overview.
@ RobM;
Read the other article. As I noted there, I was taken by this statement:
““That said, attributing the spending downturn entirely to the pandemic feels a bit simplistic.”
MLBTR constantly makes generalized statements rather than show multiple sides of an issue. From there the majority of the article went to great lengths to explain how salaries dropped for the players overall, and particularly middle class ones. THAT is simplistic.
* Nowhere in the story did it list the revenue and expenses for the team owners during the same period. *
It’s clear that the owners lost revenue, but we aren’t being told how much (and the percentage of revenue). It’s also clear that baseball owners – like all business owners – look to cut costs at all times, and use technology and people that run it and analyze it to do such. To give readers an understanding of the situation, the article should have either stated what those revenue losses and expenses were, or explain that the figures are not available. Instead they came out with a silly statement – “attributing the spending downturn entirely to the pandemic feels a bit simplistic.”
The comical thing here this that this publication has for years trumpeted organizations that use statistical data to make decisions. The most basic of those – that goes back to Moneyball – is to use data to get the most “bang for the buck” from the players on the roster. In this case it’s not overpaying for middle class players when a team can get similar or better production from players that are either younger or have had downturns in their career and will play for less money. To make that work franchises have developed processes. They’ve upgraded both their coaching staffs (notice how many new coaches have been hired, especially in pitching and hitting) to rework the less expensive players to produce at a higher level. In turn, those that do produce go on to get larger contracts. Those that don’t are cut and other projects are taken on.
In short, MLB franchises have become more efficient in player salaries. But we don’t see the costs they’ve taken on in technical equipment, people to work with and maintain that technical equipment, and additional coaches they hire to do work with the players to improve their games based on what the analysts are seeing in the numbers and videos.
@Samuel, since MLB owners do not open their books, how can the writers know how much each team lost? That’s about as simplistic as it comes. All we have to look at are the Braves public financial statements and they lost about 70% of their 2019 revenues in the pandemic-shortened season of 2020.
Players are employees, it is insane to demand a portion of profits on top of their guaranteed salary without being on the hook for net losses..
What other employers are forced to share profits with their employees?
I know it’s easy to hate on wealthy owners, but most of them became owners because of years of hard work, highly intelligent decision-making and plenty of risk taking.
That’s why most people in the real world, when given the option of trying to start and run a business by working 80+ hours a week and assuming lots of risk and stressful decisionmaking, instead choose to be an employee who has job security and guaranteed steady pay/benefits and can leave any time they want.
And for those who complain about MLB owners making an obscene amount of money … stop paying hundreds of dollars for a pair of tickets to attend a game, stop paying $40 for a t-shirt at the team store, and stop paying $50 for 3 beers and hotdogs. That’s like those who donate millions of dollars to organizations that fuel violence and crime, and then those same donors complain about the spike in violence and crime. Stop being enablers!
Look in the mirror people, you are the cause! Without your insane spending on MLB, the owners wouldn’t make as much and player salaries wouldn’t be astronomical.
@ Fever Pitch Guy;
Sensational post!
In another article on the new player/owner agreement negotiations a poster brought up the fans. YES! All the talk about changing the amount of teams in the playoffs, making 2 divisions instead of 3, etc. – never takes the fans into consideration. It not the players that are expected to take what they’re given by the owners, it’s the fans that are expected to take what they’re given by the players/owners agreements. And all fans can do is what you suggest – stop overpaying for a product.
25 years ago I was talking to a relative in Miami. She and her husband grew up – one in Chicago, one in NYC – loving baseball. They tried taking their 2 boys (maybe ages 8 and 10) to a Marlins game. Bottom line – the boys were bored and the parents were hassled getting them there. On the other hand, they could make the drive over to Orlando, and for the same money they paid to sit and watch a baseball game for 3-4 hours, they could spend a full day at Disneyworld – where the boys were participants in activities, as well as the family eating eating 2 excellent meals. They did that (and Universal Theme Parks, Sea World. etc.) rather than go to Marlins games.
Sooner or later the golden goose gets killed. It’s happened in other industries – look what unions did to US automakers…….the innovations in cars come from overseas companies, and now American automakers manufacture most of their cars out of the country.
At some point consumers will say no mas. I don’t know when that happens – but when it does MLB and other professional sports will never be the same.
players are not employees. they are contractors with some employee aspects added. those are fines and suspensions.
Vizionaire – Sorry but you’re wrong. Anyone who is on a payroll and receives a W2 is an employee.
Contractors are not on the payroll, and they receive a 1099.
3 beers AND hotdogs for $50?
That sounds like a bargain.
A beer and a hotdog would probably run you $25 at a Jays game.
bluejay67 – I know, I was talking US dollars. LOL
Last time I’ve been to Rogers Centre was pre-covid.
I don’t even know what their chat schedule is, so it doesn’t bother me at all if I miss them. I catch up with the transcripts.
CBA:about young players(especially the good1,2,3rd year players). Each team has a small pool of $($2m or ???)that is dolled out to those that excelled. This is a bonus over and above the min they earn.
The kicker: anonymous commitee of vets on the team decide who, and how much the young player earns as a bonus.
That sounds pretty complicated.
Why not just start first year players at a higher salary? Once your in the majors, you should be making a million dollars/year. Let the arb system build off that. Be putting more money right away in young players pockets.
Are players being paid right now on strike I assume not but sont know.
The players don’t get paid during a lookout or strike.
No, they’re not, but it isn’t really a significant issue yet since they aren’t normally aren’t paid at this time of year. Money for 2021 has been paid and payroll for 2022 doesn’t start until, I believe, the beginning of the season, or maybe spring training. Owners also don’t start feeling any revenue loss until spring training. That’s why there’s little pressure on either side now.
I’ve explained this in great detail here not too long ago, players get paid their salary only during the regular season. Typically semi-monthly from April through September. They also get allowances during ST.
As for postseason, 60% of total gate receipts for each of WS Games 1-4, LCS Games 1-4 and LDS Games 1-3 combined are given to the players of the postseason teams as follows: 36% World Champs, 24% World Series Losers, 12% each LCS Losers, 3% each LDS Losers, and the remaining 4% to non-WC second place teams. Players on each team vote as to how they divide their team’s share.
Fever – very nice explanation. Thanks.
Players don’t get paid during the offseason.
Anthony, JD Davis is not much of an outfielder to trade 4 years of a controllable starter. like Plesac.
That’s why he said Mets would need to add more.
My point is JD Davis is not a good outfielder. Cleveland does not need another DH. If Cleveland spends 4 years of one of their controllable starters, they will want a player that can actually play the position adequately.
Sounds like we could get an Andujar for Plesac deal done though.
Ahh, just yankin’ your hockey stick. Merry Christmas, @hockeyjohn.
Merry Christmas Ducky!
Merry Christmas, Ducky and hockeyjohn!
Players generally don’t get paid in the offseason. Only time a player would get paid during the off-season is for a specific incentive bonus, signing bonus, or some deferred money specifically written into a contract.
why are majority of baseball writers dumping rodon on the angels? he’s injury prone and has never been great till this past season. i’d say the angels keep him far away!
So, you have no interest in a pitcher who was one of the best in the league last year? No interest on a one- or two-year contract for someone who in the most recent season showed elite stuff? The Angels wouldn’t even have to surrender a draft pick because Reisendorf is so cheap he was afraid Rodon might accept the QO.
Rodon’s injury at the end of the season was frightening. He came back and was essential unusable. Buyer beware, but I wouldn’t offer more than one year with a vesting option.
@ RobM;
Your idea of cheap is my idea of common sense.
If you’d like, we can talk ‘Risk Management’.
“Cheap” is just immature demagoguery.
Do you have any conception of what a team can do with $19m? The guy pitched for Reisendorf for 6 years, had a few streaks, but mostly was underwhelming. Suddenly he has a great half-year in his 7th and he’s worth a $19m contract that he might not be able to lift his arm to sign? My reading is that his “turnaround” has to do with him doing something in his mechanics that got his pitches to move as they never had previously, and that it would be nuts to give the guy a DQ or multi-year contract without either expecting him to get injured again, or revert back to the so-so pitcher he was for 6 years.
I wish we could rate these chats. lol
The Canadian guy – Mark Polishuk – is the best. He’s pretty fair minded and open to other ideas. He’s brought up a number of things that I’d not thought of, and they had merit. He doesn’t appear to have an agenda.