Following a frustrating weekend that saw the Padres refuse an interview with quality control coach Ryan Flaherty and Reds planning and outfield coach Jeff Pickler remove himself from consideration, the Mets’ search for a bench coach hit another snag today. As Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports, the Giants have denied the Mets’ request to interview pitching coach Andrew Bailey to be new manager Buck Showalter’s deputy.
Following his retirement ahead of the 2018 season, Mets GM Billy Eppler, then with the Angels, gave the 37-year-old Bailey — who pitched for the A’s, Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies, and Angels in a career that spanned eight seasons and was named the 2009 AL Rookie of the Year while serving as Oakland’s closer — his first coaching job, hiring him as the Angels’ replay coordinator and coaching assistant in 2018 before promoting him to bullpen coach in 2019. The Giants then hired Bailey as their pitching coach ahead of the 2020 season. He led San Francisco’s staff to a 3.25 ERA in 2021 (second only to the Dodgers) en route to a 107-win season and an NL West title.
While teams customarily allow coaching and front office staff to interview with other clubs when they’re up for a promotion — which made the Flaherty news something of a surprise — it isn’t exactly clear that a move from pitching coach to bench coach would represent a ’promotion’ as such (Rosenthal notes that executive opinion is mixed on the issue). Timing may have also played a role in the decision; big-league coaching staffs are usually filled out relatively early in the offseason, and Rosenthal previously reported that the Padres denied the Mets a chance to speak with Flaherty largely because they didn’t want to have to find a replacement at this stage in the offseason.
Of course, the Mets’ attempts to fill out their coaching staff were held back by delays at the top, with Eppler’s hiring coming on November 18 (less than two weeks ahead of the lockout) and Showalter’s on December 20. They’ve since hired three additional coaches — Wayne Kirby as first base coach, Joey Cora as third base coach, and Eric Chávez as hitting coach — but only Chávez had been tied to another organization (the Yankees let him interview for the job only a few weeks after hiring him as an assistant hitting coach). Pitching coach Jeremy Hefner is the lone holdover from the 2021 staff.
Despite the chaos in putting together a coaching staff, Eppler has hit the ground running on the player side, inking Max Scherzer, Starling Marte, Mark Canha, and Eduardo Escobar to free agent deals worth a combined $254.5MM in the days leading up to the lockout while Noah Syndergaard, Javier Baez, Marcus Stroman, and Steven Matz signed elsewhere. Indeed, having endured a second-half collapse and watching the division rival Braves ride a late-season surge to a World Series title, Mets fans will hope Eppler’s offseason isn’t finished regardless of the composition of the coaching staff. MLBTR’s Anthony Franco taps Kris Bryant, Carlos Rodón, and NPB star Seiya Suzuki as potential targets once a new CBA is reached.
Jesus, these teams really don’t want to give these guys promotions. It’s not that late in the off-season. Who knows if we even start the season on time? Give me a break.
Alternatively, a club doesn’t want to inconvenience itself and benefit a rival, for a move that isn’t necessarily viewed as a promotion for the individual concerned.
In that situation, there is no problem with not giving you or the Mets a break.
Is it just me or is there something else at play with teams sticking it to Cohen? Of course bench coach from pitching coach is a promotion.
I don’t think it’s about promotions at this stage in the offseason. While there is a lockout, teams are still preparing for camps to open next month, plus once the lockout ends, teams are going to be frantically looking to make trades and sign free agents. There is no doubt many planning sessions and scenarios being run so they can hit the ground running. Front offices are not just sitting back waiting for the lockout to end. They need their experienced staff and coaches to get ready. Any team that loses a coach will have to go out and replace him, but the other teams for the most part are not going to allow their coaches to leave at this stage. The Mets are really basically asking teams to inherit their problem, and it’s one they created by taking so long to hire their GM and manager. They could have hired both Eppler and Showalter back in October, and then they’d have no issue getting approval to interview coaches.
I don’t think there’s any issue asking, but I’m still surprised that the Mets keep leaking the names. What are they gaining by this? Not gaining any friends.
Everybody they’ve hired, with the exception of Chavez, has been unaffiliated, and the Chavez situation is a bit unique. Still, I think it was within the Yankees rights to reject the request, and maybe they should have. The pool they’re going to have to pick from at this stage in the offseason with a lockout in process is going to be unaffiliated players and coaches.
@dewey: I was wondering the same thing. I wonder if teams are irritated because they think Cohen is artificially inflating the free agent market. Teams have to be irritated with player agents referencing Lindor’s $341 million contract when Lindor isn’t even that good. There’s no doubt player agents are telling other teams “Lindor got a $341 million contract. My client is better than Lindor and deserves to make more money than him.” The player and agent would be right about that, too. Same thing with the Cohen paying a 37 year old pitcher who finished the season with “dead arm” over $43 million salary into his forties. That just happened so there hasn’t been a market consequence yet. I’m sure owners are thinking, “What’s gonna happen the next time I want to sign a great pitcher who just had the last great season of his career? Am I going to have to pay him $130 million like I’m getting a young star? Am I going to have players come to me in free agency an suggest I should pay them AAV salaries of over $43 million a year? Give me a break! 37 year olds fall apart all the time.”
Cohen definitely could have cause a lot of that. I wouldn’t be shocked if owners are really irritated about his somewhat irrational spending. Lindor and Scherzer really aren’t worth THAT kind of money and paying Marte $78 million at age 34 is really questionable, too. A bum like McCann getting $40 million is insane, too. At the very least it is going to make other teams negotiations with free agents more difficult because it is going to fill out their agent’s notebook with market facts that only Cohen created.
True. There sure has been mostly NO since he took over.
Hammer and John, I just don’t recall timing ever being a reason to deny a promotional opportunity. While we are in unchartered territory to some extent, something smells and Flushing is pretty far away from the SI dump.
@dewey: I agree. I don’t believe this “timing” thing as a reason to prevent an employee from interviewing for a promotion. They keep using the lockout as an excuse but that makes no sense to me. They can still hire other replacement coaches during the lockout. They can’t even sign players right now so what more important things do they have to do with their time? My guess is a lot of front office employees are spending more time than usual sitting on their behinds during this lockout than they would during a normal offseason. All they have is time.
Shouldn’t it be up to the coach to decide if he thinks it’s a promotion or not? Just seems petty by the Giants and I think a good way to make the coach unhappy with his current team.
Absolutely. The Giants are all in when it comes to the “team”. Looks very much like prerequisite number 1 for the employees. If he was unhappy with staying, he wouldn’t be there.
But, regardless of whether it’s a promotion or not, if the Giants think he did that well for them, why would they want to allow him to move now when they are replacing some of the SPs again. They want to repeat their performance against strong division competition, not do favors for intra-league teams.
There’s are also two other possibilities:
1) Maybe Bailey doesn’t want to move (positions) right now and also doesn’t want to refuse the opportunity due to optics, in which case the Giants don’t mind saying no.
2) Every team has watched Cohen operate and doesn’t like it because he’s working against their money-saving efforts by doling out contracts pre-lockout.
3) Some combination. MLB is a mens’ club. It’s wealthy, exclusive, powerful, and they want everyone to be in lockstep so they can all benefit. Cohen doesn’t care so they’re closing ranks.
Or, maybe all this conjecture and speculation is unwarranted and it’s none of these. Only the owners know and they aren’t going to be honest about it.
To your point, (& I’m a Mets fan) if I’m an opposing team, why would I give the Mets the opportunity to improve their coaching when they’ve showed they’re doing what they can to out spend everyone!? Makes perfect sense to say, uh-no.
Because it’s always been allowed when it was a promotional opportunity. Teams are in my view sending Cohen a message that “you can’t always buy happiness”.
Is it a promotion? I’d think a talented pitching coach would be harder to come by than a talented bench coach. And pitching coaches seem to have more of an actual job.
I’m gonna guess the Giants will pay Bailey to WANT to stay. We don’t know and they’re not obliged to announce a probable pay raise for Bailey
In today’s game, there is no denying that one who wants to manage, the way to be groomed is by being a bench coach.
I really don’t know why Mets fans are so excited. I think they would be a much better team wiith Syndergaard, Baez, Stroman and Metz instead of Scherzer, Marte, Canha and Escobar. They are starting to become the laughingstock of MLB with their front office decisions. Someone should have told them that Scherzer is going to turn 38 in the middle of next season and 40 in the last year of that ridiculous contract and that his innings pitched have dropped from the 220’s from 2013 to 2018 to the 170’s the last 3 years (I multiplied his 2020 season’s innings by 2.7 so I prorated for a full season). A drop of about 45 innings per year for the last 3 years is a sure sign that the end is near and that this is not the same pitcher they have faced the last 7 years. I honestly hope I’m wrong because I’m a Scherzer fan and the Nats are going nowhere the next couple of years. He was fun to watch while he was here in Washington and he may give Mets fans a thrill for a month or two but there has to be a reason why he has only been able to pitch about 75% of what he was doing just 3 years ago.. However, if I am wrong you Mets fans are gonna love him.
I think you’re way off base in thinking those decisions make them a laughing stick. Take Baez, for example. He’s not a particularly good hitter and his value would be way diminished by him playing second base for them, lessening his defensive value. They make some questionable decisions, but not the ones you’re mentioning.
Look at what the Mets did after re-inking Lindor. They basically overpaid but for short term deals. Thor apparently left for non-money reasons since he didn’t provide the Mets with a counter. The others had been there already. Stroman wears out his welcome and Matz is inconsistent and was selling high on himself.
I’m not trying to get on Mets fans. As a Nat’s fan I can’t afford to create a bunch of enemies. I’m just trying to give an honest opinion. If you don’t think people are laughing at the amount of money and prospects you are burning then you are not looking at reality. I wasn’t just talking about those 8 players. I don’t like Baez but I would rather have him for 6 years at $23M a year instead of Lindor for 10 years at $34.1M.per year. Lindor and Scherzer are 2 examples of wasteful spending.
Speaking of Baez, you traded your 2020 1st round pick for 47 games of him and a couple of 2nd round picks for Lindor. You gave up a top 10 overall prospect for Cano and his contract, you signed an agent to be GM and you have allowed Syndergaard, Stroman and Wheeler to go and are expecting a declining 38 year old to fill the void.
I know as a Nats fan you have to let some players go but you don’t have to if you have $43M to give Scherzer.
Good luck but I think you had a better team last year.
My thoughts and prayers are with the Mets in their seemingly endless search for a bench coach. They should just force Cespedes to do it. They could threaten him with prosecution for fraud for the millions he stole from them. Doubtful he plays again unless it’s on the cheap.
This is a Mets-created problem. They hired their GM and manager later in the process as they wasted time interviewing candidates who were unavailable, so teams are not going to give them permission to interview their coaches in January, even for a promotion.
The worst part is the Mets then release the names. No one does this.
I think you hit the nail in the head there. This is a Mets p.r. issue. The Mets love to leak.
My guess is teams regularly approach other teams to check on candidates, but if it’s later in the process, they are often refused. That’s the part that surprises me. The Mets keep releasing the names. I don’t know what they’re gaining by this.
Rob, you bring a crucial point up; and, I wonder if this is to endear them to the fan base, as no information would give the appearance of stagnation or ineptitude possibly?
It’s a great point, nonetheless, and Cohen has been unconventional if nothing else.
With this constant release of Coach blocking, I’m reading the same thing here. Like a “hey, we tried…” angle if this season goes south.
Old school ?
All publicity is good publicity. Might have been the case pre social media…..
Why is everyone assuming the Mets released the names? Nobody ever heard of these people anyway.
Because the Mets always do this
Plot twist: teams are pranking/punking the mets at this point. Everyone is in on it except the Mets.
Bailey wouldn’t want to join that scummy org.
You sound very educated, simp.
LOLMETS cry about it
I’ll laugh when we sign Judge away from you
There’s nothing to cry about, the lol narrative is in your head
In before the lol Mets comments.
Inevitable it’ll be because the mets never actually wanted this guy cause he’s the worst and the giants are the worst and the Mets are the best.
Yeah they would much rather have another sex offender like Mickey .
Hoping you read my sarcasm.
The Mets are disgusting. Poaching coaches. Just like their owner absolutely pathetic.
I would guess that your IQ is less than your age.
He’s 163 years old?
FloridaMan, you don’t understand how any of this works, do you? First of all, it’s not poaching if you have to get permission. Secondly, it’s an industry wide practice. Very normal. It’s how it’s done.
And the Marlins are a class act. Told Rayes to buy a house then traded him. Won a WS and traded everyone away, including a 24 year old that’ll win a triple crown after the Marlins traded him. Christ, they went from Florida, to Miami to who knows maybe they’ll become N.H. Hens
What do the Marlins have to do with the Mets?
the prior comment from Floridaman triggered the Marlins’ assumption.
I still don’t get what they have to do with this.
Then I guess you never will…He was just telling Floridaman to look in the mirror at your own team instead of criticizing others
1984wasntamanual, I was reply to floridaman1988. what it to you troll
And idolizing a known murderer
And the mets owner should be in federal prison for white collar crimes
please, pinstripes17, why should he. that was a corporation thing. Did you see anyone from Wells Fargo go to jail. Also, George S messed up all sports by handing out outrageous contracts. regular people’s income did got up the same %.
LOL DED N. H. Hens
Stay in Florida, degen
Enough with these guys, search for someone who’s been around with proper experience. Call Cliff Floyd he would be perfect!! Skip Shoemaker., or Ozzie Guillen
this is fun!
hey Mets, hire someone looking for a job.
MLBTR’s Anthony Franco taps Kris Bryant, Carlos Rodón, and NPB star Seiya Suzuki as potential targets once a new CBA is reached.
=======================================
I think Mr, Franco fibs. Why would the Mets be interested in Suzuki? They already have Canha, Marte & Nimmo. And Bryant makes almost no sense either. Why would the NYMs sign Escobar for $20M/2, and then replace him Bryant for who knows how much?
I’m calling BS on this one.
apparently the Mets think they need two rosters of starters.
With the Mets injury luck I would too
And a poaching coach
I suppose they could sign Suzuki and trade Nimmo. I think Rodon would make more sense.
Sign Bryant. Trade McNeil. Move Escobar to 2B.
Nah. I’d rather have McNeil than Bryant, especially at how much Bryant will cost. I’m not sure Bryant is better than McNeil.
Good, his mound visits were actually like sorcery, guys would get out of crazy jams after they talked with him
Nice. Here we go again!
Steve Cohen is a D Bag!!!
That’s not nice, plebian
Truth hurts, sweetie
Awww you’re the sweet one. I love how low IQ you are. It’s cute
The real Steve Cohen is a d-bag. He thinks he’s Bobby Axelrod from billions. When in fact he’s fat, bald, ugly, with some jacked up teeth and he’s married to a dog of a wife. He makes his money by manipulating the market to his advantage and taking money from hardworking/middle class Americans. He doesn’t make anything to make the world better.
Giants helped him dodge a bullet there. Good on you S.F. looking out for this man. No one deserves the misery of being part in that sideshow. Only thing worse I could think of was being with the Astros and cheating your way to the top. I guess the Mets can at least say. Hey, at least we’re not Houston.
Spider, you been drinking straight out of the Cuyahoga again, eh?
Truth does seem to make some mad..Not from Cleveland. Just a Cleveland fan. I mean I guess I could live in Houston with all the trash cans and Altuve buzzing everyone in.
Doesn’t a team usually give deference to their new manager when hiring a bench coach? Can’t believe Showalter wouldn’t know someone who’d be able to make himself available. Or are the Mets deliberately hedging on Showalter from the outset?
This guy might just have been Buck’s first choice. Who knows?
Cosmo, I hope you’re right, brother, because if Little Cashman is anything like Big Cashman, he’s going to want control over the whole show. I’m not sure how he was in Anaheim, but if he’s smart, he will tell Buck to pick his own guys and give him the latitude to do it, exceptional/extenuating circumstances notwithstanding.
The nerve of the Mets, they should just sit back n take the D like they did with the Wilpons.
Thankfully we have a real owner now. The stench of the Wilpons will take a while to get away from but hopefully it doesn’t take too much longer to shake.
I’ll take my chances with Cohen all day. But obviously I’m biased to my team just as the biased comments against the Mets will be alive n strong.
All this attention for an organization that is tagged as LOLMets. Can you imagine the attention if we ever actually won something. Scary.
Don’t even waste your time imagining it, the lolmets will never win anything except the offseason. Happens every year like clockwork.
@pinstripes… it’s the fan in me to imagine it, just like the fan in you to keep imagining another championship. How’s it been working out for us lately?
As i said in my last post, I still rather be on this side with this owner at this time. I haven’t met an unbiased fan yet.
Yeah, I’m actually going to say that as a Yankees fan, Cohen may be the best thing to happen to US. Why? It’s simple: Hal is limping along perfectly content to have an 88-90 win team and make the [expanded] playoffs, thinking he’s got everyone fooled because he’s making more money (pennies).
With Cohen actually wanting to win (so it seems), it’s going to force Hal to come to a crossroads, if they can’t cap everyone like (ironically) Hal recommended. Hal will actually have to reflect some type of payroll increases at the risk of seriously pissing off the entire fan base (much more than now).
So, I hope Cohen spends, spends, spends. And if the Mets keep winning, better yet, because it may actually get Hal’s rear in gear.
Won the NL pennant in ‘15. I dunno what sport you’re watching or what root cellar you crawled out of but you don’t seem to know much about this sport.
Maybe Mr. Bailey didn’t want to go to the Mets, and he asked the Giants to deny permission so he could save face with Billy Eppler (who gave him his first coaching job).
That is definitely possible
I don’t think so. It would have been on a better contract ( $$$) and he’s a local guy raised and schooled in the NYC area.
With a family he would have to uproot while he gets a pitching staff ready for the season. Also, I don’t think any of us have a good idea how much or how little work it would be for him to start all over again preparing a different pitching staff for the 2022 season.
Also, I think we make waaaaaaaay to much about people wanting to return to their places of origin. I lived and was raised in the High Desert of California and don’t want to ever move back there.
The Athletic article on this topic says the Mets reportedly did the same thing earlier this off season denying their people to be able to interview for jobs with other teams. Glass house and all that…
Anyone wonder if these coaches are asking teams to deny requests from the Mets?
Yeah, actually I believe that’s certainly the case in at least a few of these. Team losing nothing, does a solid for their guy, and the coach retains his credibility without burning a bridge.
But, in all honesty, with the way Matt Blake seemed to get the Yankees mediocre rotation to overachieve (significantly) last season, I wouldn’t think Hal/Cashman would permit a team the opportunity to interview Blake at this stage either.
If a team believes that much in their pitching coach, that’s not an easy position to replace and can be the difference between a strong, well-performing unit, and a disaster.
Truth.
Quite possible Bailey when told of the Mets request informed the Giants to refuse. This kinda stinks as one would believe Buck would have his own list and someone on it would be available. None of this makes sense other than to make news. Actually makes as much sense as Scherzer and Lindor being worth the money……
January seems a little late to be plucking coaches from other teams. I think if you sign a new manager at the end of December, you’re stuck with what you can cobble together.
Pitching coach and bench coach are at best parallel positions. Enough with all these titles.
I’m sure Bailey would have gotten a steep raise, but for the Giants to have given him the pitching coach position in the first place deserves some level of loyalty. He’s been outstanding and has a great rapport with Kapler. When his contract is up I’m sure the Giants will outbid his suitors unless he’s offered a managerial gig, then the Giants would have to aquiesce.
These coaches are under contract, the Giants are under no obligation to allow him to interview it’s a courtesy. Bailey has a connection to Eppler from their days with the Angels. but It’s just not the job that’s a consideration. Who wishes to move cross country and from AZ to FLA as spring sites with this little notice. He’s married with 3 young children and they’ve made a home in CA.
He does have East Coast roots and maybe in normal times, who knows, but these aren’t normal times and the Giants have shown a strong desire to keep “the band together”.
Still something odd is going on within the industry with the Mets, right?
Wow, I would have loved to see Bailey the former Wagner College Seahawk in the dugout alongside Buck.
Holy run-on sentence Batman!
“Following his retirement ahead of the 2018 season, Mets GM Billy Eppler, then with the Angels, gave the 37-year-old Bailey — who pitched for the A’s, Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies, and Angels in a career that spanned eight seasons and was named the 2009 AL Rookie of the Year while serving as Oakland’s closer — his first coaching job, hiring him as the Angels’ replay coordinator and coaching assistant in 2018 before promoting him to bullpen coach in 2019. “
This. But apparently Billy Eppler retired prior to 2018. No wonder the Mets are lost in the wilderness. Or did he retire prior to being with the Angels?
Why not Carlos Beltran for bench coach?
He was going to manage the Mets and this would be a good way to get back in the game. Hinch and Cora are both back in baseball. Let Beltran back in.
Maybe Beltran isn’t a Schowalter guy. Pretty important for the manager and his right hand man to be on the same page, I’d think. It may also be a bit unnerving for the bench coach to be the same guy the team tried to hire for your job before you.
Cohen may not want Beltran’s baggage with some of the issues Cohen already faced in the beginning of his ownership tenure. I’m not suggesting Beltran is unemployable, nor am I suggesting this is justification.
Nonetheless, I could certainly understand Cohen’s desire to separate himself fully and completely from any known impropriety.
On, no. What will the Mets do without Andrew Bailey ? Said no Mets fan ever. As much as it entertains me to see all the ‘oRaNgE tEaM bAd’ geniuses get all giddy over these inconsequential non-signings, your obsession is a bit peculiar and the schadenfreude displayed may need to be addressed, at some point.
Andrew Bailey. Isn’t he Phil Collins’ easy lover?
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
I understand why Mets fans are a little frustrated, particularly with Flaherty which would have been a clear promotion but even in the Padres situation I understand their complaint.
I’ve read a few Mets fans refusing to even consider the aspect that teams don’t relish the idea of trying to find replacements this far into the offseason.
Of course there’s this little gem:
“It’s not that late in the off-season. Who knows if we even start the season on time? Give me a break.” Signed a particular Mets fans.
Not going to mention the poster because I’m not interested in calling anyone out. This is just illustrative of someone who insists on only valuing the challenges to their team. I get it. That’s being a fan but it’s still unreasonable. Teams have plenty of work to do so it makes since that they don’t want another iron in the fire.
The season start is obviously up in the air but this fact doesn’t help anything. Teams would have to take on even more uncertainty if they give up management staff now. Why would teams want to put themselves in the situation the Mets find themselves in?
If he retired prior to the 2018 season, how could Billy Eppler be GM of the Mets? Or did he retire when he was with the Angels? Doesn’t anyone edit these run-on pieces?
I dont believe any Met fan really cares, it’s more for the haters to have something to talk about and make more of then it is. Whatever makes them feel better I’m all for, makes no difference either way.
I wish I were an MLB team owner with $11B in my pocket. Whether it was SS, GM, CF or bullpen catcher, I’d go after the best people. If that meant pissing off other owners for over paying for players, or if that meant reaching into every other organization to try to take all their talented front office people and coaches…..yeah, I’d do it. Let the other owners cry, send them each a box of tissues…..
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Bailey has been magic on his mound visits. An amazing coach, we’ll keep him and raise him here!