The Giants were known to be looking to re-sign Kevin Gausman, and as the free agent right-hander neared his decision, it appeared as though the Giants were one of the favorites to get Gausman’s name on the dotted line. However interested the club may have been in a reunion, it appears as though the Giants’ explorations never manifested themselves into an actual contract offer.
According to Gausman himself via his Twitter account, “I want to set the record straight for y’all [because] there has been a lot of [BS] out there about this. SF never made me an offer. Simple as that.” It doesn’t appear that Gausman necessarily had any hard feelings over the lack of an offer, as after signing with the Blue Jays prior the lockout, he issued a pair of tweets thanking both the Giants and San Francisco fans.
Gausman’s 2020 season in San Francisco was impressive enough that the Giants issued him a qualifying offer following the season, and the two sides discussed a multi-year deal before Gausman ultimately opted to just accept the one-year, $18.9MM QO. With Gausman pitching even better in 2021, the righty was now lined up nicely for a much bigger multi-year deal that whatever would’ve been on the table from the Giants or other teams in the 2020-21 offseason, and Gausman ended up landing a five-year, $110MM pact from the Jays.
Beyond the Blue Jays and Giants, at least six other teams (the Tigers, Mets, Red Sox, Angels, Mariners, and Cubs) were known to have at least some degree of interest in signing Gausman. Of that group, the Mets reportedly offered Gausman a larger contract than what he accepted from Toronto.
As Gausman’s incumbent team, the Giants had extra time to negotiate with his agents at the Tidal Sports Group and ascertain how much the now 31-year-old was looking for on the open market. If San Francisco either felt Gausman was out of their preferred price range to begin with, or felt the bidding got too intense once the other seven clubs got involved, the Giants might have not bothered making Gausman an offer that they knew wouldn’t be accepted.
This tracks with the perception that the Giants aren’t keen on making nine-figure contract offers in general, or at least not a high salary spread out over an extended period of time. Farhan Zaidi’s front office has spent some money this offseason, if only on shorter-term deals — re-signing Anthony DeSclafani for three years and $36MM, re-signing Alex Wood on a two-year, $25MM pact, and adding a new arm to the pitching staff in Alex Cobb on a two-year, $20MM deal. Beyond those pitchers, Brandon Belt also accepted San Francisco’s qualifying offer, staying in the Bay Area on an $18.4MM salary for 2022.
That adds up to $99.4MM for four players, or less than the Jays paid for Gausman alone. While it could be argued that the Giants have more than enough available payroll space to have signed that quartet plus Gausman, the team seemingly either prefers to spread their dollars around, or are saving a bigger splurge for another player. A right-handed hitting outfielder could fit the bill, as the Giants have been linked to Seiya Suzuki and (before he signed with the Mets) Starling Marte. Free agents like Nick Castellanos or former Giant Kris Bryant also fit the description, but they have asking prices beyond the $100MM mark.
Amen to the BS.
I can’t believe the Mets offered him more than that. I wonder what they offered and why he didn’t take it.
maybe they offered him that to be their GM?
The Mets right now have established themselves as the team that will have to pay a significant premium to sign many free agents. That can certainly change if they show more stability and consistency in the clubhouse and front office, along with success on the field.
Nice
He tweeted a few years back how he hated NY because pf the amount of people that live there. That’s why he didn’t accept the offer the mets gave him. Not everyone has the testicles needed to play in NY. He clearly doesn’t have them ♂️
Or he just doesn’t want to play there?
Or Gausman wants to win. In the next 2-3 years which team has a better chance to win Toronto or the Mets? Ps it’s not the Mets and it’s not even close.
Quite a few players don’t want to play in front of the insufferable fans of the Mets, Yankees, BoSox and Phillies. Not to mention the weather.
Mets might win 79 games in 2022
Jays could win 90 plus.
A bit shocked too. Could’ve been in the #1 media market and capitalize on it. Perhaps he likes Toronto and where they are going. Mets are still a hot mess.
Trust me, being a Giants fan, you’ll be glad you didn’t sign Gausman. He’s not close to an Ace. When the Giants made the playoffs & set their starting pitching, they had a 24 year old unproven (is proven now) kid lead the way. When Gausman got his start in game 2, he got shelled. Look at his #s after the All-star break last year..atrocious! He did get a lot more than he’s worth
Maybe he really likes Frisco. A little less pressure.
Frisco, Texas?
Lol sounds like someone’s bitter he left their team. Is Gausman an ace? No. Is he still a really good #2 SP? Yes.
I agree with BondsAway. The Giants knew what they were doing when the bidding got in the $100 mil range. In 15 starts during the second half of the season Gausman had a 4.42 era, 1.371 whip, .354 babip, and gave up 12 dingers. I think pitching in the AL east Gausman will regress towards his numbers in Baltimore where he sported an era+ of 108 and an fip of 4.32.
Can someone tell this sourpuss Gausman that Toronto is by far the cleanest big city in North America? And last time i checked, San Francisco was littered with bums.
What, like people are throwing bums out of their car windows? That kind of littering? I figured I’d have read about that other than just this site.
He’s overrated.
I agree! $5M more and the Jays would hav been able to keep Cy Ray! It’s a Toronto syndrome to produce good players or fix them and then, let someone else take them!
I’ve heard Ray is unvaccinated and athletes no longer have an exemption to cross the border without quarantining, so a return was never possible for Ray.
It was surely a factor but if it wasn’t at all possible, where does that leave other players on the roster? Bo is a pretty big part of the team and had at one point said he didn’t want to get vaccinated.
There’s a fun thought experiment. If Bo is only eligible to play 81 games this year, is he more valuable to the team to keep or to use in trade to a team where he would be eligible to play a full season this year?
I’d trade him (in this completely unrealistic hypothetical scenario) because he would bring a haul. Plus the bidders would also likely only be teams that don’t play 9 games there a year keeping him out of AL East
Yeah GoRav, that’d be my instinct. He’s certainly still super valuable to the team as a pre-arbitration player for 81 games and they’d get a bargain on his first year of arbitration if he couldn’t rack up the numbers. But the value as a trade piece would be huge. Of course, it would never come to it but it’s fun to think about those mechanics. Bo would likely get JRam (and I’d also take Quantrill and Karinchak on the side).
Ray and Gaus have pretty similar career stats if you can be bothered to look it up. They’re both two pitch pitchers. Ray had a better ‘21 in a tougher division. I’m not sold in the signing either but he helps an otherwise already good rotation. I don’t know for sure obviously but as someone who follows the Jays Ray was never coming back from the start of the off-season. I don’t think they pushed hard for him at all, and I’m not even sure they made him a real offer. So I imagine some internal discussions took place between the two parties. For what it’s worth.
totatlly agree man
110 million? Contracts like this will end up being the end of baseball
Do we tell him about the larger contracts?
I will not be that guy today.
Google “Mookie Betts Contract”
Mookie is one of the better 300+ million plus deals out there. Take him all day over Francisco “734 OPS” Lindor and Gerrit Cole, who plays once every 5 days.
Look up “Future HOFer.” Betts is well on his way. Cole and Lindor are building their cases. One name you won’t ever see is Gausman.
Lindor is on or anywhere close to a hall of fame track?
Put down the tequila bro
If he’s what he showed in 2021, his first year with the Mets, and regresses from there, then you are correct, but also don’t underestimate what he’s done. Even in his bad year, he was still a 3 win player.
He’s only 27, a SS, and already has over 32 career fWAR, including one season with nearly eight WAR. Four-time All-Star, multiple seasons with MVP votes. He has a lot of runway in front of him and a contract that will guarantee he will get playing time. I’m not saying he is a HOFer, but he’s built a strong base. No tequila needed.
Yes, but a little tequila never hurts. A lot is a different story. Perhaps speaking from experience.
Smoking some goodie good good sheets, blow that stuff back so we can be able too sleep tonight lol.
It’s his 3rd down year in a row. Lindor is done.
LMAO
About the only things Lindor did in 2021 was irritate Mets fans with his thumbs down and assault his teammate (McNeil). Those shenanigans will be remembered. Just think if almost anyone of us that visit this site assaulted a fellow employee at work most all of us would be immediately terminated from employment. Lindor’s OPS also has went down every year for 4 years.
Salaries will only go down if the market can’t bear them. And it certainly can.
But they gave him a nice setup with the $18.9 mill. QO that allowed him to test free agency the next offseason without costing the signing team a draft pick.
This guy isn’t worth anywhere close to the contract he got. The Giants will end up looking very smart for not getting into a bidding war with a bottom of the rotation starter at best.
He’ll be worth it for 2 years or so. But 3-5 at 20+… no thanks
“bidding war with a bottom of the rotation starter at best.” Really dude? While I would have rather have them resign Ray instead I have a feeling he would magically be better if he signed with your team.
Had him already, you or anyone else can keep him. Maybe for literally half the cost. He’s not worth a penny more than $10 mil per and that’s incredibly generous.
So if the Giants signed him for five years 51mil you’d be pissed off, because that’s what you’re saying.
Congrats on the dumbest post of the day Amick.
Pablo 2.0
There will likely never be another Pablo 2.0. Three straight years of declining stats, possibly the fattest baseball player ever, no range, and no speed.
All because someone (likely Larry) thought they could sell t-shirts.
Teams don’t need to offer players contracts or even negotiate with them if their contract is over. Once the contract is done, you are no longer employed. Seems like the guy has sour grapes. Oh well, enjoy pitching in the bandbox parks of the AL East.
Doesn’t seem like that at all. Seems like he got tired of incorrect speculation.
MLBTR cut off the end of his tweet where he said “anyone or anything that says otherwise is #fakenews”
Sounds like some journo put out an erroneous report or he’d been catching some flak from Giants fans and he was just setting the record straight. Don’t know why he’d have sour grapes, the Blue Jays’ immediate future is infinitely brighter than the Giants’
Ummm…ok…this one contract alone is going to do nothing but hurt the Jays.
Take a look at my username and profile picture before automatically assuming I’m a homer.
My theory about overzealous fans who completely realign their view on a player the moment they sign elsewhere continues to be proven right
Edit: Ahaha he edited his response to me where he assumed I was a Jays fan. Tribalism at its finest. SAD!
Old York claimed Gausman was airing his grievances about the Giants not making him an offer. I responded saying that I don’t think he would be upset considering the Blue Jays will likely be better in coming years. Not sure what kind of point you’re trying to make– my comment wasn’t about Gausman’s contributions, it was about him joining a more legitimate contender. Reading comprehension is your friend.
If you thought people on here could read, you wouldn’t be writing to tell us what the two of you just wrote. Most of us can read, so you don’t need to be condescending by trying to interpret what you wrote for us. Say your piece and be done with it.
Couldn’t of said it better
No matter what you said to Old York, I was responding to what I disagree with on your comment, that’s all. You started talking about tribalism and crap.
*have (not “of”)
Try not to teach spelling to one person on this article lil buddy, as you’ve missed correcting the rest of the comments on here. SMH
@Balk be careful FletcherFan is one of those guys that likes to call people who don’t agree with him racists. He’s that guy.
Can I get an amen!
Mystery Team…ohhhh I gotcha…thanks for the heads up.
It’s not spelling, little buddy. You’re using the entirely wrong word and you probably have been your whole life. Just trying to help you out…little buddy.
You gotta’ love it when quotes are left out, or made up. This case the juicy part left out. We see it in the mainstream media all the time, but here, on a what i thought was a neutral sports site?
Come on Tim. Think we expect better.
Not necessarily. The Giants have a stronger front office, and that’s going to count a lot toward the future.
Why is their front office stronger? Everyone in every field who has accomplished something was once considered inferior to something or someone more established.
107 wins
Yes in 2021, and you should be very happy about that as a Giants fan. But those 107 wins are in the record book, and have absolutely no bearing on the future.
Brighter maybe. Infinitely brighter is worthy of some push back. Not sure the Blue Jays have a limitless advantage in terms of the future. But hey, writing with comprehension can be difficult.
He has every right to clarify that, and I’m definitely glad the Giants didn’t get involved with a bidding war for his services. Money can be used better elsewhere
I mean can’t it just be amicable his intentions? I’m sure he’s tired of people who he has known for the last two years believe he abandoned ship on the giants or that he has no loyalty.
The giants didn’t offer him a contract
He still signed a large contract.
I don’t see anything negative here at all. He probably wanted to make sure Giants fans knew he would have been open to staying but he never got an offer.
Out of pocket but okay then.
Seriously, during a lockout this is the news that surfaces? A pitcher who just got like 25 million and rebuilt his career is complaining about not getting an offer from his previous team, even though he just got over 100 million. Could be hot take but if I was Jays front office this would rub me wrong a little. Not to mention what objective does this accomplish for him?
Just go and look at his tweets thanking SF and the giants when he left. There are tons of idiots who accuse him of being selfish for not re-signing with the team that helped him rebuild his career. Pretty hard to re-sign when there’s no contract in front of him. Yet for some reason, it’s the players fault for that in Giants fans eyes in this case, but this is always how a portion of every fanbase reacts when a good player leaves.
5TUNT1N:
Where exactly was he “complaining”?
Good bet Zaidi made the smart call.
The Giants likely prefer the draft pick. They know they got the best from Gausman and that there’s a strong chance he’ll trend backward now.
They don’t get a draft pick
Yes, but they would prefer one!
Wut?
Shocking! Could SF actually have a budget? I remember the 2010’s when they handed out
$20 million dollar contracts like they were candy!
This isn’t a budget move but one in which the FO is very aware that last season was a likely blip of unsustainable success. Doubling down a roster likely to disappoint is foolish. Their timeline and window is later and boy… as a Dodger fan they scare me far more than the rest of league.
Mmyecho…everything you said is spot on…Giants Dodgers rivalry is one of the best in baseball and it will continue to be as long as the two teams keep their front office.
Zaidi is a cheapasss
Please tell us all about the success of the SD front office and their proclivity to hand out big time contracts
TonyGwynnSD19
Zaidi is a cheapasss
============================
I assume you are just a casual fan without a deep understanding of how baseball works. But Zaidi is the GM, not the owner. Only the owner decides what the budget will be. Once the owner tells Zaidi what the budget is, that is what Zaidi will spend.
I suspect they verbally said they had interest but likely just to monitor it in case his market came in lower that what the Jays paid.
I know he’s been good with the Giants, but I’m not convinced he won’t return to closer to what we saw with the Orioles the last time he was in the DH league and the AL East.
You need to know what he is reacting too. It’s a bit weird. Weeks have passed. You would think a disappointed fan(s) would have gotten over it by now and moved on. But anyhow, no offer. Farhan is hard core.
Blue Jays will be trying to dump him in 2 years.
As a Giants fan watching over the last couple of years, while i appreciated his performance, you could see, especially the back half of last year, he was not the dominant pitcher he was earlier—was he tired? were the hitters figuring him out? was his stuff losing some of its zip? i dont know, but i do know he was much iffier over those last couple of months
His splitter went from Best pitch in baseball to the worst pitch. Kinda sums up his second half performance, his wife had a baby I think there was a complication of some kind. But dude was not what he was first half plain and simple.
As another Giants fan…I get the take, but I think they should have matched, or tried anything. It’s not always about winning the deal. Sometimes, you can take a small loss on a deal to get a good player long term. Gausman will pitch well over this contract, maybe not we’ll enough to “earn” the whole dollar figure, but a big pocket team like the giants shouldn’t be worried about coming out ahead on every deal. They can afford to overpay for guys who help them win. Farhan cares most about his image. He’s a smart man who has made many shrewd signings but we will be undone by his desire to continue to rule the headlines. The teams who win long term understand it’s not about ego. Farhan is all about ego. Take the known commodity sometimes, even if you can’t get it undervalued. Otherwise you’re left shooting your dice down an alley, and when I drive down the neighborhoods next to that park, I lose my sympathy for the frugality of the Giants owners
Gausman thrived with the Giants when he abandoned pitches other than his fastball and splitter. A starting pitcher having relatively sustained success for almost two seasons as a two-pitch pitcher is pretty remarkable. Is it possible hitters are starts to figure him out again?
Kevin Gausman certainly earned his salary with the Giants, but he’s not worth 5 players’ worth of pay. Farhan would more likely pursue Clayton Kershaw with a 2 or 3-year deal. It’s also possible that the Giants saw some trends in Gausman’s game, much like they see in Kris Bryant which lessen their interest. Farhan may surprise the MLB world with a big offer for a player like Nick Castellanos, but only if MLB goes with the DH. It’s more likely for the Giants to sign 2 mid-level quality starters along with Seiya Suzuki for power.
They won’t though.
“ It doesn’t appear that Gausman necessarily had any hard feelings over the lack of an offer…”
Anyone who tweets “BS” and “fake news” seems to be at least a little irritated about the topic
The topic, yes. At the team, probably not. He’s probably just tired of hearing about it and now doesn’t have to any longer
Gausman is just giving Giants fans the “it wasn’t me, it was them” speech. I doubt many Giants fans wish any ill will to Gausman for leaving and in the long run its possible they may have dodged a Jeff Samardzija sized bullet.
Samardzija was coming off putting up the league’s worst ERA at the time the Giants threw mountains of cash at him — he pitched much better for the Giants than they had any right to expect.
Gausman earned his contract by at least having a good couple of platform years. He may not live up to it, but it’s not the pure insanity of the Samardzija contract which was based on the radar gun only.
That’s because… wait for it… he’s not worth anything close to the contract he got. He was more of a #3 type pitcher post All Star game and wasn’t someone to be relied on whatsoever. And the Giants didn’t make him an offer because they knew they weren’t going to come close to matching the overpay by Toronto, so why waste any one’s time. Not like Gausman was going to take 60-70 million to come back to SF.
Giants were smart. You don’t give a 31 year old pitcher a 5-year contract.
Depends on the 31 yr old. If it’s Scherzer, absolutely. Gausman? Absolutely not.
Giants did good by not resigning. His numbers got worse as the season went on. 5 more years of Gausman. No Way. 2-3 Tops. 20 per year. Max.
They’ll Find More Guys.
The Giants probably could have traded him before the trade deadline.
It could have been 3 prospects vs 1 comp pick
Why would they have done that? They were competing at the time and would go on to 107 wins. Gausman was a big part of that. Had they not run into the Dodgers in the playoffs, they might well have gone all the way.
VegasSDfan:
No team in baseball is trading their #2 pitcher when they have the best record in baseball and virtually assured of making the PS. Plus, there is no comp pick.
VegasSDfan
The Giants probably could have traded him before the trade deadline
==================================
I assume that you are a Padre fan trying to divert attention away from SD’s awful management. But when teams have the best record in baseball, they generally add players, not subtract players.
I presume, you being a Padre fan, are likely not familiar with that concept.
There is no comp pick.
He accepted the QO last year, and thus they couldn’t offer it to him again and they get nothing this year (and the Jays don’t lose a pick for signing him).
The Giants. LOL
The Giants were smart not giving him a five year contract. Gausman got his nine figure, five year deal but will suffer pitching in the AL East. All of the parks are launching pads.
Gausman should only have good things to say about the Giants organization. They turned a mediocre pitcher into a very good one and made him extremely wealthy. If Gausman has anything negative to say towards the Giants it would not be very classy on his part. The Giants will likely sign another “project” pitcher or two and turn their careers around as well and save 100 million dollars. And I hope they sign Suzuki and Kikuchi.
“They turned a mediocre pitcher into a very good one”
No, it’s not that simple. You don’t just ‘coach guys up’ that’s not how pro ball works
Kevin Gausman turned himself into a better pitcher. Giants pitching coaches / pitching development people probably gave him information on pitch effectiveness that maybe he hadn’t heard before. But the bottom line is the player is responsible for any success.
If it was as simple as just ‘coaching guys up’ you wouldn’t see pitchers getting paid 35 million a year. You’d just sign guys at the major league minimum and coach them up to perform at a high level
Maybe pro ball is changing in how it works. Maybe those LOL Giants are at the cutting edge of that. Another year of data should tell the story.
I’m thinking the Giants found some players and benefited from them having career years (and then some). I don’t think they’ve created some sort of miracle computer to make stars out of scrubs.
Let’s take a deep breath and see how this plays out over a few years.
There’s a mix. Yes, guys have to put in the work, but no matter how hard you work, if you’re doing things the wrong way, you won’t achieve your maximum potential. Look at what Katz did with Rodon on the White Sox. He fixed his mechanics, which not only gave Rodon better stuff, but also took pressure off his arm and allowed him to finally have a mostly healthy season. Sox were foolish not to give him a QO. Yeah, Rodon had to work on the mechanics a ton, but without that advice, he’d probably have been mediocre again and then injured a third of the way through the year.
Because they knew he wouldn’t repeat his 1st half and he would have cost them a fortune for a career back end arm.
Did I miss the reference (“BS”) to where it was thought the Giants offered him a contract or that he dissed the team by signing elsewhere? While I tend to side with the players I can’t fault SF for not making him an offer if he would have found it insulting
Angels86ed:
The BS he was referring to is what was being said in the media, and social media. It had nothing to do with the Giants.
He’ll win 20 this season.
That’s a bit of a stretch, but I’ll bet he makes at least 20 starts in 2022.
Until the lockout is over i wouldn’t even make that bet…
As both a Giants and Jays fan, I actually found this deal bittersweet in both directions.
Gausman isn’t the trash that some here are saying he is, nor will he be Toronto’s ace over the next 5 years. That will likely be Manoah. But if Gausman can maintain an ERA in the 3.50-range, along with Berrios and Ryu, this will be a very deep and serviceable rotation that will do more than enough for the Guerrero-led offense to win them a bunch of games.
Will he be worth $22 million in Year 5? Likely not. But he should be worth it the first couple years, when the Jays will be angling to win a championship.
As for the Giants… I think they missed the boat. Maybe they didn’t need to sign Gausman, but that staff needs more than an Alex Cobb addition, which will be difficult to do now. Can’t see them bringing in Kershaw, and if they didn’t want to splurge on Gausman, they won’t do it for Rodon. I’m afraid they’ll get cute and think they can maximize something about Zach Davies.
Zaidi is leaning too much on the philosophy he cultivated in Oakland to run the big-market team across the bay. Mix in a star or two with the Diamonds in the Rough, so that the team can power through the postseason.
In addition to being the marquee team in a very wealthy region, the Giants are also major real estate developers. They can more than afford some nine-figure salaries.
Moonlight Graham:
I agree with most of what you say, except for your take on the possibility of the Giants signing Rodon. He won’t cost anywhere near what Gausman did. MLBTR predicted 1/$25M. I could see a team gambling on a 3 year deal, hoping he stays healthy, but the AAV would come down in that case. He seems like the type FZ would sign, and he seems a likely possibility for SF.
And I disagree that FZ’s time in Oakland is influencing him that much. He was the GM in LA more recently. He seems to be operating much like his former boss Freidman, in that he’s careful with his spending, but willing to go big for the right guy.
Gausman is good…probably not as good as he was last year, but good. If you are expecting five years of Max-like production…nah, not going to happen, and there’s nothing in his background that implies it will.. But there’s no reason to think he can’t provide 700-800 above-average innings.
Giants should’ve made an offer just to see if he’d take a hometown discount.
Home town? He is from Louisiana, why would he want to stay in San Francisco it’s night and day.
Because Northern California (and it’s weather) is one of the more beautiful places on earth, let alone the US? Low humidity, highly educated population, extremely low magaa population, great food, wine country – it doesn’t get any better than this.
Why do guys feel the need to say this kind of stuff to the media? True or not, doesn’t really matter. The team has the right to make an offer or go a different direction. And it’s possible his camp said it needs x dollars over y years or else and the team said, “Fine, go somewhere else.” But even if the team just waved goodbye, why sound like a jilted high-schooler?
Depends on the questions asked, I suppose, But, you are correct, probably the smartest answer is something like “had a great time in _____, loved my teammates and the fans, hoping I can help win the WS with._____. Keep it simple
hyraxwithaflamethrower:
I think you, like a lot of others, are seeing his comment as directed to the Giants. It was not. It was directed as what was being said in the media, and on social media.
mike 156:
He did say all of that. He thanked the Giants saying he enjoyed his time in SF. And in a separate tweet thanked the fans
I for one wish more players would let us fans know what really went on. We usually don’t get this kind of inside info. I just wish he was more clear about what the intent was.
Hey! You’re busted
TG seems like a decent guy overall. He got his money and the Giants can keep fishing—-sometimes you end up with a trash fish….
Good point, but who’s TG?
As some others have said, I think he will be good, but not great, for two years, mediocre for two years, and below-average for a year.
IRT his tweet, he apparently saw someone lying about the negotiations, or lack thereof, and wanted to straighten out the rumors. Nothing wrong thee.
He should thank his lucky stars they didn’t make him a offer. That Crime ridden cess pool with the DA they elected.
Jealous much FinkleStein? Lol Anaheim
Finklestein “Don’t you see? This has nothing to do with baseball, Agnes! But, everything to do with that darn DA.. pchh, so ya.”
Agnes-Jealous about what?