I just don’t see Freeman as a Fit on the Angels. He’s expensive at a position that is already filled with a young controllable player. Makes more sense to spend that money on a SS or Pitching.
If you really believe in top prospects Marsh/Adell running with the starting spot – Walsh is your 1B of the future. If not, he could slot back into COF with one of the most consistent hitters in the game: Freeman at 1B, which would allow you to sign a defensive-first, bridge SS (Simba again?) and a SP4/5 with Detmers given room to grow.
LAA is the front-runner, imho, with a SoCal home and if Perry Minasian could sell the same family clubhouse culture that drew Ohtani and Rendon (on top of the bills). LAD can afford him (obvs), but an affordable Muncy can play other places, gives them financial and lineup flexibility Freeman would not.
I agree, which only illustrates what little market there is for him, but don’t underestimate a team/owner trying to make a statement. If you can’t win the postseason, why not win the offseason, ay?
Great chat. I had 2 questions answered. One was the Andruw Jones question. For the record, every player with 10 Gold Gloves is in the Hall of Fame. The only 2 who aren’t are Ichiro (who will be voted in first ballot when he is eligible) and Andruw Jones. I can’t see a real argument that even with over 450 home runs Andruw Jones was somehow so bad that he shouldn’t make it into the Hall even though he has clearly met the standard 10 Gold Gloves that has been a lock to get in for every other MLB player in history.
I agree with you Hammer. Andruw Jones is HOF worthy (I am of course biased as a Braves fan but he had the numbers). Ozzie Smith made it in as a fan favorite and almost solely on his defense. You did forget about Omar Vizquel and his 11 gold gloves. With Omar’s defense his 2877 hits and 456 doubles I think he should already be in. As well as Kenny Lofton and of course Fred McGriff….
Absurdist comment aside, I have seen both Trout and Jones play. Trout is very good, but Jones was better. BTW, I am neither a Braves, nor Angels fan, though between the two I’d lean Angels,
Vizionaire: Did you even look into what you are talking about before you posted this? Did you even read any defensive stats before you compared Mike Trout to the greatest defensive center fielders? Mike Trout isn’t even close. If Mike Trout is so good defensively why is his defensive rating far less than half of what Andruw Jones is? Why doesn’t he even come close to Andruw in defensive runs saved? You are showing how little you know about defense by even bringing Mike Trout up to compare him to the best defensive outfielders ever. Look it up. Mike Trout isn’t even a consideration for even being close to Willy Mays, much less Andruw Jones.
Willy Mays defensive Rating: 170.1
Andruw Jones Defensive Rating: 278.8
Mike Trout Defensive Rating: Less than 100 just like everyone else not named Willy Mays or Andruw Jones
Mike Trout routinely scores negative defensive runs saved. Andruw Jones is the all time leader in outfield defensive runs saved with at least 29.9 more than any other outfielder in history. Where are you getting this idea that Mike Trout even deserves to be in the conversation of best defensive outfielders? He doesn’t. At all. The Tampa Bay Rays outfielder is far better defensively than Trout and he doesn’t deserve to be in the conversation either. Statistically there are only 2 choices for best defensive center fielder ever. Willy Mays and Andruw Jones. Statistically, Andruw Jones beats out Willy Mays by a landslide. Anyone who brings up Trout in this conversation is just a clueless guppie that over hypes every single aspect of what Mike Trout does defensively without even putting the time to check and see if they know what they are talking about.
It’s refreshing to see Mark admit to doing the right thing and NOT voting for known PED users in hall of fame voting if he could vote. I would do the same. Mark McGwire especially hurt me to my soul when I found out he was using (he was huge to start with btw 6’5” 220 in 1985 by his topps rookie card). For me Bonds/Clemens are every bit as bad. All the talent in the world and they got greedy.
do you know who used and who didn’t? bonds never tested positive during the time using steroids were against mlb rules. and ortiz has the biggest cabeza in baseball.
that was in a trial being threatened jail time by a over-zealous prosecutor.
bonds is a hall of famer whether jealous writers vote for him or not.
and, by the way mcgriff is no f way hall bound.
@Viz. In 2003 the Today’s Game committee will vote at that time Schilling/McGriff/Lofton are going in. They will be up against PED users like Bonds/Clemens/McGwire/Palmeiro/Sosa/Kevin Brown.
Congress has proven they will NOT do the right thing. If anything they need term limits. 8 years just like POTUS. No government official should be allowed 30-40 reigns.
oh, politics in baseball talks! kidding aside, congress can do a lot if either sides can agree on things like they had in the past. since the old party became the objection party, politics went down the hill.
If they are really against steroids and it’s trickle down effect to HS students then they should be marching towards Bud Seligs farm with their pitchforks not any 1 player
I’m always completely lost how Bud slips this responsibility with the commoners. Bud or “BS” is an enshrined first ballot HOF’er ofc for all future generations to behold
@FredMcGriff: Mark didn’t exactly say he would never vote for steroid abusers. He kind of said the opposite. What he essentially said was that he would vote for the maximum 10 players on the ballot and if he found 10 players he thought were hall of fame worthy and clean he would vote for them ahead of the juicers. If you look at the ballot though, there are never 10 clean players who are hall of fame worthy. What Mark would end up doing is voting for all the clean players he thought should be in and then fill up the remainder of the 10 spots with juicers. Using his logic my guess is Mark would be voting for several known juicers every single year.
@ Vizionaire: You night be right that we don’t know every single player that juiced. There are still plenty of players who we know for a fact did use steroids and lied about it. We all know for a 100% fact that Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGuire, Sheffield, A-Rod,Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz and probably several others on the ballot used steroids. They all lied about it at some point, too. Just because you can’t be 100% certain that you can keep every last juicer out (several are already in) is no reason to just let all of them in no holds barred.
Most of those guys, at some point in their careers, took a job and/or major league roster spot away from a clean player trying to do it the right way. There are definitely dozens if not hundreds of clean players who are dead broke right now and had their major league opportunity, roster spot and salary taken away by a dirty player. That in and of itself is so egregious it’s plenty of reason alone to keep someone out of the hall.
The worst part about it is a lot of those dirty players were stealing roster spots by extending their careers and playing at a much older age than they would have been able to if they were clean. That means when they were already multimillionaires when they were taking the salaries away from clean guys who likely had no money at all. Talk about the rich stealing from the poor. The owners may have a lot more money than the players but at least the major league players are millionaires. The dirty players were worth tens of millions and they were stealing hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars from people who almost literally had no money at all. There’s something really dirty about millionaires cheating to steal the salary away from someone who is actually broke.
Think about the guys that would have made a few hundred thousand or even a few million dollars but now their families have next to nothing because someone like Bonds decided to stick a needle in his arm and take his roster spot when, as a clean player, Bonds would have already been washed up at 40 and the clean player would have had his shot. It’s not just Bonds. It’s tons of players that did that to tons of people and their families. All when they already had millions of dollars in their own bank accounts and knew they could live comfortably for the rest of their lives.
From a personal standpoint, I have no issues with someone using a drug that is bad for them. They are hurting themselves and I don’t think we need to try and police people to protect them from themselves. It should be their own choice. Once doing that starts taking away entire careers, jobs and salaries from people who want to be clean it becomes a real problem though. No clean player should have to compete against a steroid abuser to get a job in the majors.
But anyhow, it’s August 2001, I’m a 31yo sports loving Aussie that knows nothing of the MLB. Bored with my corporate job one day, I decide use some company IT resources and do a bit of an around the world tour of the major sports websites. I hit on the MLB page, and the headline was Barry Bonds looking for another home run in his chase for the record. Curious, I hit the game day link and it takes to me the little old school, really basic baseball field graphic that has the little dot representing the ball as it’s thrown and hit. Blew my mind. Sure enough, Barry comes up and hits that little dot out of the park. Intrigued by the game, the box score, the fact that teams play every day, and this chase for a record, I logged onto the Giants game the next day, and the next, and the next. 20 years later, I’m still doing it. Although I’ve now graduated to MLB TV. So thank you Barry, thank you interweb, and at the end of the day, thankyou to the clear and the cream !
I’m all for locking up some of the young Braves kids but I’m adamant about not extending Swanson. He’s just not going to be worth the cost of his next contract. Frankly I’m disappointed we didn’t go after a big SS this offseason when there are very clearly few options available moving forward next offseason.
Is Shewmake really that good? I think of him as trade bait. I’m not usually a fan of big contracts but if they want to replace Swanson just go after Trea Turner that offseason. They could always just QO Swanson (barring CBA change) and either give it one more year or take the draft compensation. I think Swanson would probably accept the QO.
I’m not sure why so many Braves fans hate the idea of a Swanson extension around free agency. I know he’s nothing special but he won’t be paid like he is either. A Swanson contract would be pretty cheap even compared to what Trevor Story will get. He’s basically a slightly above league average player with solid shortstop defense and the ability to hit close to 30 home runs a year but he’s no superstar. I don’t think he will be paid like a superstar.
If the Braves can keep Swanson for a few years at less than $15 million a year, what’s the harm? He’s not going to get a contract like these other shortstops unless he has a career year next season. Depending on what Swanson does next season, I would either QO Swanson and keep him for a year or take the draft compensation and go hard after Turner or I would just sign Swanson to something like a 4 year $60 million deal. It won’t kill them either way. The only way that team takes any real risk by going my way is if they sign Trea Turner. But hey, then they would have Trea Turner so it might be worth it.
Name top five teams in order that are in on Carlos Correa. Teams that have an opening at shortstop or can make an opening. And add a large contract.
Nats
PHI
NYY
Angels
Cubs
I just don’t see Freeman as a Fit on the Angels. He’s expensive at a position that is already filled with a young controllable player. Makes more sense to spend that money on a SS or Pitching.
I disagree, it’s a very good game but I think Donkey Kong is the best game ever.
If you really believe in top prospects Marsh/Adell running with the starting spot – Walsh is your 1B of the future. If not, he could slot back into COF with one of the most consistent hitters in the game: Freeman at 1B, which would allow you to sign a defensive-first, bridge SS (Simba again?) and a SP4/5 with Detmers given room to grow.
LAA is the front-runner, imho, with a SoCal home and if Perry Minasian could sell the same family clubhouse culture that drew Ohtani and Rendon (on top of the bills). LAD can afford him (obvs), but an affordable Muncy can play other places, gives them financial and lineup flexibility Freeman would not.
after pujols, even though signing him made a lot of money for the owner, angels are not signing another older 1b.
I agree, which only illustrates what little market there is for him, but don’t underestimate a team/owner trying to make a statement. If you can’t win the postseason, why not win the offseason, ay?
aye!
Preller mantra
agree. would much prefer walsh on the cheap end over freeman even though hes clearly the better player.
Great chat. I had 2 questions answered. One was the Andruw Jones question. For the record, every player with 10 Gold Gloves is in the Hall of Fame. The only 2 who aren’t are Ichiro (who will be voted in first ballot when he is eligible) and Andruw Jones. I can’t see a real argument that even with over 450 home runs Andruw Jones was somehow so bad that he shouldn’t make it into the Hall even though he has clearly met the standard 10 Gold Gloves that has been a lock to get in for every other MLB player in history.
I agree with you Hammer. Andruw Jones is HOF worthy (I am of course biased as a Braves fan but he had the numbers). Ozzie Smith made it in as a fan favorite and almost solely on his defense. You did forget about Omar Vizquel and his 11 gold gloves. With Omar’s defense his 2877 hits and 456 doubles I think he should already be in. As well as Kenny Lofton and of course Fred McGriff….
Hammer:
“…Andruw Jones is the greatest defensive center fielder to play the game and by a wide margin over guys like Willy Mays and Roberto Clemente.”
Clemente did not play CF, except in extremely rare occasions.
I agree though Andruw Jones should be inducted IMO.
might as well vote all braves players. including john rocker! btw, andrew jones the best center fielder? you have never watched mike trout play?
Absurdist comment aside, I have seen both Trout and Jones play. Trout is very good, but Jones was better. BTW, I am neither a Braves, nor Angels fan, though between the two I’d lean Angels,
compare war numbers. it’s fairer since they play(ed) same position. jones had more home runs and that should bring out more suspicions
Vizionaire: Did you even look into what you are talking about before you posted this? Did you even read any defensive stats before you compared Mike Trout to the greatest defensive center fielders? Mike Trout isn’t even close. If Mike Trout is so good defensively why is his defensive rating far less than half of what Andruw Jones is? Why doesn’t he even come close to Andruw in defensive runs saved? You are showing how little you know about defense by even bringing Mike Trout up to compare him to the best defensive outfielders ever. Look it up. Mike Trout isn’t even a consideration for even being close to Willy Mays, much less Andruw Jones.
Willy Mays defensive Rating: 170.1
Andruw Jones Defensive Rating: 278.8
Mike Trout Defensive Rating: Less than 100 just like everyone else not named Willy Mays or Andruw Jones
Mike Trout routinely scores negative defensive runs saved. Andruw Jones is the all time leader in outfield defensive runs saved with at least 29.9 more than any other outfielder in history. Where are you getting this idea that Mike Trout even deserves to be in the conversation of best defensive outfielders? He doesn’t. At all. The Tampa Bay Rays outfielder is far better defensively than Trout and he doesn’t deserve to be in the conversation either. Statistically there are only 2 choices for best defensive center fielder ever. Willy Mays and Andruw Jones. Statistically, Andruw Jones beats out Willy Mays by a landslide. Anyone who brings up Trout in this conversation is just a clueless guppie that over hypes every single aspect of what Mike Trout does defensively without even putting the time to check and see if they know what they are talking about.
Hammer didn’t just drop that mic, he spiked it
It’s refreshing to see Mark admit to doing the right thing and NOT voting for known PED users in hall of fame voting if he could vote. I would do the same. Mark McGwire especially hurt me to my soul when I found out he was using (he was huge to start with btw 6’5” 220 in 1985 by his topps rookie card). For me Bonds/Clemens are every bit as bad. All the talent in the world and they got greedy.
do you know who used and who didn’t? bonds never tested positive during the time using steroids were against mlb rules. and ortiz has the biggest cabeza in baseball.
@vizion. He publicly admitted to using “the cream and the clear”. Guilty! espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3867536
that was in a trial being threatened jail time by a over-zealous prosecutor.
bonds is a hall of famer whether jealous writers vote for him or not.
and, by the way mcgriff is no f way hall bound.
He was being threatened with Jail time because he lied to a grand jury. Anyone can go to jail for that.
nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/barry-bonds-sentenced-f…
@Viz. In 2003 the Today’s Game committee will vote at that time Schilling/McGriff/Lofton are going in. They will be up against PED users like Bonds/Clemens/McGwire/Palmeiro/Sosa/Kevin Brown.
if you guys are against steroids use in sports write to congress to start testing high school athletes. that will really clean the sports world..
Congress has proven they will NOT do the right thing. If anything they need term limits. 8 years just like POTUS. No government official should be allowed 30-40 reigns.
oh, politics in baseball talks! kidding aside, congress can do a lot if either sides can agree on things like they had in the past. since the old party became the objection party, politics went down the hill.
If they are really against steroids and it’s trickle down effect to HS students then they should be marching towards Bud Seligs farm with their pitchforks not any 1 player
I’m always completely lost how Bud slips this responsibility with the commoners. Bud or “BS” is an enshrined first ballot HOF’er ofc for all future generations to behold
You are the one one who mentioned congress.
Vizionaire, you brought up congress.
read for a change!
Vizionaire, you constantly post garbage and then get proven wrong. At what point do you actually stop and learn some facts before you post
Hey let’s leave size out of it, some guys are just lucky to carry a big bat.
@FredMcGriff: Mark didn’t exactly say he would never vote for steroid abusers. He kind of said the opposite. What he essentially said was that he would vote for the maximum 10 players on the ballot and if he found 10 players he thought were hall of fame worthy and clean he would vote for them ahead of the juicers. If you look at the ballot though, there are never 10 clean players who are hall of fame worthy. What Mark would end up doing is voting for all the clean players he thought should be in and then fill up the remainder of the 10 spots with juicers. Using his logic my guess is Mark would be voting for several known juicers every single year.
@ Vizionaire: You night be right that we don’t know every single player that juiced. There are still plenty of players who we know for a fact did use steroids and lied about it. We all know for a 100% fact that Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGuire, Sheffield, A-Rod,Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz and probably several others on the ballot used steroids. They all lied about it at some point, too. Just because you can’t be 100% certain that you can keep every last juicer out (several are already in) is no reason to just let all of them in no holds barred.
Most of those guys, at some point in their careers, took a job and/or major league roster spot away from a clean player trying to do it the right way. There are definitely dozens if not hundreds of clean players who are dead broke right now and had their major league opportunity, roster spot and salary taken away by a dirty player. That in and of itself is so egregious it’s plenty of reason alone to keep someone out of the hall.
The worst part about it is a lot of those dirty players were stealing roster spots by extending their careers and playing at a much older age than they would have been able to if they were clean. That means when they were already multimillionaires when they were taking the salaries away from clean guys who likely had no money at all. Talk about the rich stealing from the poor. The owners may have a lot more money than the players but at least the major league players are millionaires. The dirty players were worth tens of millions and they were stealing hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars from people who almost literally had no money at all. There’s something really dirty about millionaires cheating to steal the salary away from someone who is actually broke.
Think about the guys that would have made a few hundred thousand or even a few million dollars but now their families have next to nothing because someone like Bonds decided to stick a needle in his arm and take his roster spot when, as a clean player, Bonds would have already been washed up at 40 and the clean player would have had his shot. It’s not just Bonds. It’s tons of players that did that to tons of people and their families. All when they already had millions of dollars in their own bank accounts and knew they could live comfortably for the rest of their lives.
From a personal standpoint, I have no issues with someone using a drug that is bad for them. They are hurting themselves and I don’t think we need to try and police people to protect them from themselves. It should be their own choice. Once doing that starts taking away entire careers, jobs and salaries from people who want to be clean it becomes a real problem though. No clean player should have to compete against a steroid abuser to get a job in the majors.
remember bonds was already good enough for the hall before he allegedly started using steroids.
Oh no your poor soul.
Disclaimer: Barrys a bit of a dick.
But anyhow, it’s August 2001, I’m a 31yo sports loving Aussie that knows nothing of the MLB. Bored with my corporate job one day, I decide use some company IT resources and do a bit of an around the world tour of the major sports websites. I hit on the MLB page, and the headline was Barry Bonds looking for another home run in his chase for the record. Curious, I hit the game day link and it takes to me the little old school, really basic baseball field graphic that has the little dot representing the ball as it’s thrown and hit. Blew my mind. Sure enough, Barry comes up and hits that little dot out of the park. Intrigued by the game, the box score, the fact that teams play every day, and this chase for a record, I logged onto the Giants game the next day, and the next, and the next. 20 years later, I’m still doing it. Although I’ve now graduated to MLB TV. So thank you Barry, thank you interweb, and at the end of the day, thankyou to the clear and the cream !
I’m all for locking up some of the young Braves kids but I’m adamant about not extending Swanson. He’s just not going to be worth the cost of his next contract. Frankly I’m disappointed we didn’t go after a big SS this offseason when there are very clearly few options available moving forward next offseason.
I wonder if they don’t just let Swanson go after this season and move forward with Shewmake to save money to put towards Riley and Fried.
Is Shewmake really that good? I think of him as trade bait. I’m not usually a fan of big contracts but if they want to replace Swanson just go after Trea Turner that offseason. They could always just QO Swanson (barring CBA change) and either give it one more year or take the draft compensation. I think Swanson would probably accept the QO.
I’m not sure why so many Braves fans hate the idea of a Swanson extension around free agency. I know he’s nothing special but he won’t be paid like he is either. A Swanson contract would be pretty cheap even compared to what Trevor Story will get. He’s basically a slightly above league average player with solid shortstop defense and the ability to hit close to 30 home runs a year but he’s no superstar. I don’t think he will be paid like a superstar.
If the Braves can keep Swanson for a few years at less than $15 million a year, what’s the harm? He’s not going to get a contract like these other shortstops unless he has a career year next season. Depending on what Swanson does next season, I would either QO Swanson and keep him for a year or take the draft compensation and go hard after Turner or I would just sign Swanson to something like a 4 year $60 million deal. It won’t kill them either way. The only way that team takes any real risk by going my way is if they sign Trea Turner. But hey, then they would have Trea Turner so it might be worth it.
Name top five teams in order that are in on Carlos Correa. Teams that have an opening at shortstop or can make an opening. And add a large contract.
Nats
PHI
NYY
Angels
Cubs
take angels out. they need a shorter term ss and more pitching.
Finally someone agrees with me that the Angels are lacking on pitching.