For the second time in three seasons, we’re faced with the possibility that Major League Baseball will fall shy of a full 162-game schedule. Unlike in 2020, when the truncated season was an inevitability due to the Covid-19 pandemic, the potential for missing games in 2022 is entirely of MLB and the MLBPA’s doing. The expiration of the 2016-21 collective bargaining agreement wasn’t some secret, and a second contentious set of negotiations between the league and union has been widely expected for quite some time — particularly since return-to-play talks went about as poorly as one could possibly imagine in 2020.
While there was some talk of proactive negotiations at times, discussions were infrequent, at best. The MLBPA made a core economics proposal back in May. The league countered in August, suggesting — among other major changes — that free agency be linked directly to a player’s age (29.5 years, in MLB’s proposal). The MLBPA, looking to young stars like Juan Soto, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Fernando Tatis Jr. and many others who’ll reach free agency well before 29, considered age-based a non-starter. (The league’s proposal also contained a $100MM salary floor — but that came with a major reduction in the luxury-tax threshold, from the prior $210MM down to $180MM.)
A second iteration of the union’s economic plan was put forth on Nov. 5, with key points including a raised minimum salary, earlier arbitration, changes to the draft order (with an eye on eliminating tanking), changes the league’s revenue-sharing structure and earlier free agency for certain players. The league was nonplused.
The MLBPA’s second proposal was met with a counter the following week, wherein the league reportedly kept the age-based free agency requirement and also sought to replace the arbitration system entirely — instead awarding pre-free agent salaries according to a WAR-based algorithm. That came with its own fairly obvious set of issues, as explored here at the time of the offer.
As the CBA’s Dec. 1 expiration ticked nearer, it became clear a deal would not be reached. MLB and the MLBPA agreed to move the deadline to tender contracts to arbitration-eligible players (which had been set for Dec. 2) up to Nov. 30. A flurry of free-agent and (to a lesser extent) trade activity ensued in the week leading up to the CBA’s expiration, as a handful of motivated teams sought to get some of their offseason business done before the lockout.
Commissioner Rob Manfred announced in a letter to fans on Dec. 2 that the league had locked out the players. Manfred claimed to have been “forced” into a lockout, which he described as a “mechanism to protect the 2022 season” — one that would “jumpstart” negotiations with the MLBPA. The two sides did not return to the table until mid-January, just over six weeks later.
Major League Baseball has made one formal proposal since implementing the lockout. The MLBPA has made two and has now been awaiting a counter to that second offer for ten days. In the interim, MLB made a request for federal mediation; the MLBPA swiftly rejected, with players banding together to voice a desire for daily negotiations with MLB rather than turning things over to a third party. Daily negotiations (obviously) have not occurred.
Players are still seeking increased minimum salaries, a bonus pool to reward pre-arbitration players based on performance, an increased luxury-tax threshold and measures to eliminate tanking, among other items. An expanded playoff format and the associated spike in television/streaming/gate revenues is among the league’s top priorities, but owners are also pushing back heavily on the extent to which minimum salary should increase and to which pre-arbitration players should be compensated.
Manfred confirmed yesterday that the league will submit a new proposal Saturday. He also declined to announce a delay to the start of Spring Training (although that feels like an inevitability), called missing regular season games “a disastrous outcome for the industry,” and maintained optimism that the season will begin on March 31, as scheduled.
All of that sounds nice, but it’s increasingly difficult to believe the two parties will make swift progress, given the acrimonious nature of talks to date. It’s also worth noting that back in October, Manfred made similar comments about agreeing to a new CBA before Dec. 1, calling an agreement the league’s “number one priority” and expressing optimism a deal would be reached in time.
That rundown of where things stand out of the way, let’s open this up for (further) debate among readers with a poll…
(link to poll for Trade Rumors iOS/Android app users)
The season will begin when both sides decide to act like adults, sit down and work out the issues and stop this BS game called posturing!
How is it that in all aspects of life, the adults are never in charge?
The system isn’t setup to reward nice guys so children & selfishness run amuck
STEVE – You might want to take a look at Paragraph 7, Sentence 3. Looks like you accidentally typed the league rejected their own offer, instead of the MLBPA rejecting it.
Maybe the League realized they screwed up and gave up too much and they actually did reject their own offer 🙂
This is plausible
gozurman – Good one, I gave you a thumb!
because most adults rarely act “like adults”
Which is why I voted that I don’t think we’ll have a 2022 season. For the most part, the players have held firm to what they want but also have been more than willing to negotiate. It has been the owners who have locked the players out and have failed to negotiate. So really only one side has been acting like adults and the other like a spoiled child.
tiger – The only time an entire season was lost in professional sports, the NHL years ago. I really don’t think it will get that far here. May the 4th I say.
Of course the players are more willing to negotiate. They are the ones who are unhappy with the last CBA, If the owners could simply extend the last CBA another 5 years, they would likely jump at it.
Will we hear the Star Wars theme instead of the National Anthem?
(Hears ‘Imperial March’ playing over PA system in all parks)
youtu.be/_B0CyOAO8y0
We should be hearing taps.
Definitely. The last proposal made by the owners is less advantageous than the previous agreement. The owners are giving back, the only question is how much.
We all saw the amount of these contracts signed before December 1st. The players are currently playing hardball, but will cave quickly after March 15th. Everyone here needs to sit tight – baseball will be played, and it will be at least 150+ games. Relax.
The owners giveth and the owners taketh away
Manfred specifically said that the new draft penalties in their proposed CBT framework were to offset “giving up” compensation paid for signing free agent players.
He didn’t mention that they’re only proposing less than one percent increase in the thresholds, or that they want no qualifying offer for teams to receive compensation when a free agent leaves, reducing the incentive to extend that player.
He didn’t mention that they want to convert the minimum salary to a fixed salary, so it’s also a maximum for all players not eligible for arbitration- unless they’re one of the few eligible for the $10 million bonus pool.
Their minimum salary barely keeps pace with inflation and not nearly with growing revenues
He passes off a draft lottery as a solution for teams not spending on payroll, which is nonsense
He pretends that offering a bonus draft pick to a team if they don’t manipulate service time and the player becomes an elite stud in his first three years (A supplemental draft pick, or an extra year of a controllable young superstar?)
Time to get real
The players have been more than willing to negotiate???
Which is why I suppose they rejected a professional neutral mediator???
The players are more than willing to negotiate as long as the union gets everything it wants. Some negotiation.
Screen – “neutral mediator” lmmfao
Yeah because the last time a mediator was used they were totally neutral and I have a baseball team in Florida to sell you…
You think the MLBPA believes that mediators from Federal Mediation and Conciliation Services are biased? Sorry, only their most unhinged supporters would say lunatic nonsense like that.
MLBPA didn’t want anyone giving the players a realistic, professional perspective. That’s why they refused a mediator.
Biased, no. They believe that MLB wants to set them up for an intentional impasse so they can unilaterally impose their own terms. It’s about leverage.
MLB knew that the players would decline mediation and they could use it as a PR stunt, and an excuse to not make another proposal for two more weeks. Which is the case.
MLB wants to run out the clock, make a last minute offer that seems somewhat fair, but isn’t, and blame the players. But they’re not taking it. MLB’s motives are too transparent. They’re stalling.
I’m biased. In terms of being liquid, I believe the Stock Market is a better investment than MLB baseball. I don’t think most owners have a huge return on investment, and I bet many operate in the red until the team is sold.
Knowing that, I’m still on the player’s side. Young players need to get paid more. The luxury cap needs to go up by more than 1%. There needs to be some sort of mechanism in place to stop teams from tanking.
I think the really big spenders need to pay a sizeable tax. I think the teams that get that tax money need to spend the money on their team to keep it somewhat competitive.
Well since baseball finances are held like state secrets we’re never going to know for sure, but I believe the claim that billionaires drop their billions on any investment to burn money is absurd on the face of it. You simply can’t compare an investment of this kind to “the stock market” (whatever that means to you).
We have the Braves and we have had Disney. Disney lost dozens of million of dollars and they won a World Series. They had to sell the team to get the losses off their books,
And even back then people were claiming the owners were making money hand over fist,
Gene Autry owned the team, loved the team and was forced to sell the team because he was losing money every year. And back then fans were saying Owners were making money hand over fist.
So maybe they are and maybe they aren’t, but based on semi-recent history they are not. Unless you sell your team, I think most owners could make more money in the market.
Who cares if they ‘lose’ a nominal amount every year? Think of it as property taxes. But their asset is appreciating faster than anything i’ve ever owned.
The longer this goes on the less I care. The most exiting season I can remember was that short covid season and my team didn’t even win anything. MLB needs to realize they are killing the sport they need to forget about tradition make the season shorter the postseason longer 100 games and use the covid postseason either get rid of the DH or use it in both leagues
Couldn’t agree more!!!!
Still, the losers in this scenario are the fans.
While the Mets are the winners because they don’t have to play as many games.
Okay, Alex Jones. Go back into your cave, clown shoes.
If it doesn’t, I will officially begin the break up process with my lifelong love. As much like a lengthy marriage, it may take a few tries, but I think it will be over for good. Maybe I should look for a younger second wife.
My cynical side had predicted ST starting around May 1 and games around May 27. I hate when my cynical side looks smarter than my optimistic side.
I am afraid starting on May 27th, might be too optomistic. We will know much more tomorrow. If there is some progress, then we can have a degree of optimism.
hyrax – That’s basically the same timetable I’m thinking. Lockout ends early May and regular season begins on Memorial Day weekend, which is usually a big revenue holiday weekend for owners.
Depends on MLBPeeA. Looks like ‘no’.
This is easily on the owners more than anyone. They’ve refused to engage for months and imposed an unnecessary lockout. How anyone can see this differently I’ll never understand.
There are serious issues that need to be addressed. Treating the tax like a hard cap and barely refusing to budge on increasing it being a big one. Service time manipulation and ownership’s ability to hinder a players market being another. A free agent should be completely free of their team, no strings attached. Otherwise there is nothing ‘free’ about it.
What have the players given up besides the 6 years to free agency? The owners have given players 4-5 different things, and the players “gave” the owners something that already existed.
Add Manfred’s most recent comments exemplifies the hubris of the owners. I recall Mark Cuban trying to buy the Pirates a long time ago. That guy ain’t cheap. There needs to be a better evaluation of owner integrity that benefits the growth of the sport. Right now the owners want to own a team only so they make money. You own a sports franchise for that and for the sport,er inner fandom. Get it together MLB!
According to Manfart, its’s not a sport, it’s “a disastrous outcome for the industry,”
I feel sick to my stomach knowing that clowns like that are behind the future of “The industry”.
I think we’ll lose a few weeks to a month of the regular season due to the players needing a proper ramp-up period/spring training.
I’ll wait until tomorrow, and then I’ll answer
I’m with you there
I voted that we might not have a 2022 season. Owners are hell bent on getting the players to capitulate to their demands. No matter what Manfraud says, the owners would be more than happy to lose a big chunk of this season just to stick it to the players. I don’t see the players capitulating, and if the season gets delayed enough, I can see them saying we’re done for this year to stick it to the owners.
If the players ” stick it to the owners”, many of the boderline players will not be on a roster in 2023. They will be replaced by aaa players, that will play this year. The star players can ride this out, but for a decent % of players, losing a full year will be a major hit. It isn’t only the money for the lost season, but also another year as far as qualifying for a mlb pension. Some of these players will miss by one year, and the union negotiator s don’t care.
yeah, it’s all but certain in my mind that there will be a season in some form because so much is lost by not having one. maybe not a full one, but I’d be shocked not to see one.
While I voted about a month late, I can see this too. In fact, I feel it is either/or.
Either they miss the start and it scares them or they miss the start and it doesn’t. Remember most the union reps are already massively rich. Max Scherzer isn’t changing his lifestyle over a missed season. Neither, obviously, are the owners.
So about half of us expect them to figure this out and start a month or so late. I’m in that camp.
Just seems like once they actually start missing money is when they’ll actually make real effort.
and if they dont start missing their money then maybe we should consider dealing them to the Nets for a disgruntled superstar.
A team’s average value in 2010 was about $475 million. In 2021 the average value of a team was about $1..75 BILLION (yes, with a B). That’s about a 400% increase…and they want the young players coming up to receive what….a 10% increase?????
The players should be sharing in that huge increase in owner wealth….you know…the “trickle down” theory.
The fact the owners don’t want to share that huge increase in wealth, especially with young players coming up, doesn’t speak very highly of the owners, sorry to say.
The value of the team is not cash at hand for expenses to be paid out of. The owners through Manfred stated they aren’t making this huge profit that the players are claiming they are. In fact forbes agrees that the owners profit margin is some of the worst in businesses today at between 2% and 12% which is terrible by the way. If it wasn’t for the fact owners have other business ventures the banks might not fund much of a credit line for them.. The last ownership of the dodgers ran into that problem and had to borrow from the MLB owners fund to pay their debts off. They then had to show a certain proof of revenue before they got out of owner “jail”.
The Forbes numbers are trash. They post lower revenues for teams than their known income from media contracts alone. If the teams didn’t treat their finances as deep, dark secrets, we’d know a lot more, but we know this much at least: don’t trust whatever a well-compensated shill for the owners tells us about his employer’s finances. He isn’t telling us anything remotely accurate or useful, by definition. Using the Dodgers as an example only proves the point. The McCourts notoriously used the team as their personal piggy-bank and ran it into the ground. Their penalty for being such lousy managers? Being turned into billionaires (Frank anyway. Jamie had to settle for around $150M).
And if you believe that billionaires get to be billionaires by making money-losing investments, I have a space station I’d like to sell you. Cheap, but today only.
Everyone forgets expenses. The mortgage on Yankee Stadium alone is over $40m a year. The owners and fans are the ones paying that.
Nobody forgets expenses. The fans pay for everything, in the end.
Right or wrong, does it work that way where you work?
The only thing that is relevant here with regard to the increase in franchise values is that the owners have light years more financial resources than the players, and can wait as long as they’d like.
Some of us are old enough to remember many MLB and other league labor disputes over the past fifty years. This will eventually get resolved, and fans will eventually return as if nothing happened. Might take a while, but the doom sayers don’t have history or economics in their side,
Trickle down is a lie to keep the schmucks waiting patiently for their share while you rob them blind.
Not just with players. Stadium workers have had to go on strike for fair wages. Owners literally want to charge you $8 for a hot dog and underpay the person who prepares it for you.
Rolling – Teams/Owners don’t pay the food service workers, the work is contracted out. For instance Aramark employs the concession workers for hundreds of professional sports venues including Fenway.
Who do you think pays for it?
The fact that Manfred refers to it as an “industry” rather than a game tells you all you need to know about the commissioner, and the state of baseball.
Revenues are $11B annually. That type of money isn’t spent on just a “game.”
I voted after ASG.
I live in an area ( North Carolina) where there are no MLB teams, so I buy a baseball package so I can watch Yankee Games ( which I have done every year since I left New York). This year, since I hold both sides responsible, if they start late I am not buying, it’s that simple.
That’s the only thing that’ll have an impact, @Yankee.
Personally, no matter how each side eventually pisses me off, I’ve no doubt that as soon as they have deemed themselves ready to play, I will be watching.
I will be also. Angry, but not to the extent to punish myself.
I agree, but I’m to the point where I’m more upset with the Yankees specifically. If they don’t upgrade the roster, I don’t know that I’ll be watching. It’s too frustrating for me. I’m too competitive to see professionals flounder, especially watching the same Yankees team trot out there all year, win 92 games and walk home after the WC game surprised at how they lost, only to say they’re going to address needs in the offseason…
Nonetheless, I picked May. I think they will both be willing to lose money, but to a point. Once they both watch the season start to dwindle and realize the impact there will be enough incentive to get them back to the table with a smidge of humility.
The Players want to change the system ( wrongly in my opinion), but even if they are right they have to actually be willing to cancel the entire season in order to accomplish that goal. Will they? That remains to be seen.
There is not much left of the players’ proposals to change the system.
Owners suggested abolishing arbitration and replacing it with an algorithm.
That was withdrawn.
Then they proposed eliminating super two and replacing it with an algorithm..
Another complete non starter- withdrawn
Owners then proposed replacing six year free agency with an age 29-1/2 system that would have kept players under control for 7 to 10 years in most cases.
The players proposed a hybrid age plus five years, or six years system.
Manfred called that radical.
Now all that is withdrawn.
The players want earlier arbitration eligibility, higher minimum salary, higher CBT thresholds.
They say they want to stop tanking and service time manipulation but nothing they have proposed would accomplish either of those objectives.
The owners still propose raising the CBT tax from 20 to 50%, which is way more radical than anything the players propose, and is a complete non starter. They want to add draft penalties at the first tear of CBT penalties.
That’s what they’re counting on Ducky!
Course they are, Mick.
They absolutely need knuckleheads like me. This goes to @Yankee Clipper too. I’m just too far gone fellas. My grandpere was taking me to The Stadium since before I can remember, serious. I was there for Chambliss off Littel ffs.
The Yanks & Big Blue are just simply part of the fabric of my life.
I talk tough. Ya know, “I’ll be fine until they start playing blahfeckingblahblahblah.” But it’s winter/spring snow goose season out here, which runs well into May. Spend a lot of time driving & floating looking through binoculars. I’m already missing just listening to spring training games while I scout/make 300 mile drives.
No chance on hell it starts before May
Manfred posturing again. Owners have got a real life-like puppet up there that gives Jeff Dunham’s act a run for his money. Almost can’t even see the owner’s far-reaching arm attached.
Manfred is chosen, hired, and paid by the owners, so of course he’s representing them. That’s his job.
No kidding. That take is as bad as Tony Clark is just a shill for the playe4s.
Now that you mention it, having Jeff Dunham up there with Walter or Peanut would make these press conferences much more entertaining.
Tomorrow will tell us a lot. Does the owners’ counter offer actually make concessions or is it yet another offer made in bad faith? One of these sides needs to put forth a legitimate counter offer otherwise this will take forever.
You mean like the last PA one made in bad faith? So to equal that one maybe they will add 6m to the fund that the PA deducted 5M from the 105M for the few individuals on top of the kids list. ;Both sides need to come to the bargain table with what they can find. We will never know what the financial record is but the Pa more than likely knows more on that but doesn’t care seems to me.
Has this app been taking a lot longer to load up for others here over the last few month?
Not for me.
Yeah, Is it the app or is there just is no news to report because there’s no baseball…
Lol – the app! When I open it I wait for like 30 seconds for the little upload circle to finish loading.
If you want to send an email through our contact form with some more details (what type of phone you have, which version of your operating system, etc.) I’ll be sure to pass it along to a developer to see if it’s something on our end of things:
cdn.mlbtraderumors.com/contact
Well, I think we have to take the announcement of the DH being universal as a positive sign. I think the meeting this Saturday will also be a positive development, and I think, at least I voted, that the season starts on time, but, I could be wrong…..
Like cogs on an idiot wheel so are the MLB days of Rob Manfred.
Manfred deserves a lot of the responsibility for the massive increase in franchise values over the last decade or two. Considering that is why he is paid, he doesn’t exactly sound like an idiot to me. He, the owners, and the players absolutely positively do not care what you or other fans think. It’s only about splitting the money pie, no more. And you and the other fans will come back, if labor history in US pro sports are any guide whatsoever.
Universal DH proposal by Manfred is low hanging fruit, both sides want it but are not willing to give up anything for it. Both sides are talking over each other instead of with each other.
I’m interested in seeing the owners offer this time but I don’t have much optimism that they will do more than repeat what they’ve said before.
May first at the minimum.
My gut says June 3rd is the closest we’ll even get to a full season. I just don’t see any urgency on MLB’s end and the players are ready to sacrifice pennies for the dollars they truly deserve. Baseball is supply and demand.
Tight poll.
Onto the 100% agreement sort- MLBTR is going to be a sh*tshow when teams have to cram an off-season worth of trades and signings within I’m guessing a week or so.
Pray for these awesome purveyors and make sure your mouse or screen interface can handle the refresh rampage!
I don’t think I’ll be able to pick up the St Patrick’s gear at Spring Training at the pace things are going.
MLB is actively working to destroy itself. MLB has spent the last few years insisting their product is, to paraphrase the “pace of play” narrative, boring, all while offering no solutions to the acknowledged boredom. Now, a lockout? Remarkable. A self-inflicted boring league with labour strife. Now that’s leadership, Mr. Manfred.
MLB’s weird anti-marketing approach for so long is bizarre. Why hire national broadcasters who continually demoan the current state of game compared to when they played? You’re basically telling fans to go away.
It’s not on Manfred. The union’s demands are beyond unrealistic. Unless they scale back quite a bit, there will be no baseball. The media is lying, because they side with the players.
It is on Manfred. He’s the voice behind “pace of play.” He took the NHL approach, constantly highlighting the flaws in his own league without offering real time solutions – Manfred is whiny. It’s a matter of poor leadership. I’m not exonerating the players, I agree with your point, but Manfred has no feel for public relations (read: “piece of metal”). Manfred badly mishandled the Astros’ scandal in all regards. Manfred started down the wrong path. Manfred is tone deaf, he’s not ‘reading the room’ and he’s had MLB faltering well before this lockout and it’s rapidly getting worse. Manfred is not a natural leader.
Yet the owners have done fabulously as a result of Manfred’s work. They do not care about anything else.
“ as a result of Manfred’s work”
Not so sure that’s accurate. It may simply be that timing / economy accounts for much of this. Baseball really came back in the late 90’s which propelled it forward. To give Manfred credit is…maybe an overstatement?
I said early on that the players would extend this out to 4-6 weeks of delay and then they would want to be fully paid for the whole season.
Just millionaires playing a game for a living whining about money. I love baseball, but have zero support for this cr@p happening every few years. Don’t say “it’s a lockout, not a strike” as if you don’t believe the players would’ve gone on strike, as it’s a naive thought.
You’re putting all the blame on the players. I don’t understand that.
That sums it it.
Agreed…. Players make the bulk of their money by August, but the owners make it later. It is about bargaining leverage, and unless you are sure that the players are total idiots, of course they would strike after the All Star game. Look at when they have done so in past skirmishes. The owners aren’t stupid – they generate more leverage for themselves by locking out and hanging players out to dry.
It’s not just the fact that it’s a lockout.
Its a lockout which Manfred claimed would “spur negotiations” then refused to negotiate for six weeks, then made disingenuous proposals and still proposes a harder de facto salary cap, knowing that there will be no baseball as long as they maintain that position.
I didn’t even read the article. Picked sometime in May. Manfred’s press conference yesterday was pure PR nonsense.
Agree and picked the same.
Nope
it won’t start until june 15th.
May. Eventually the sides will come to the conclusion that making money is nice and they need to get on the field. We aren’t anywhere near that right now. The owners see an opportunity to undermine the Union and have a bit of an upper hand in doing that, although it’s not a slam dunk. Look for Ownership to offer bits and pieces that don’t mean a tremendous amount to them in return for significant concessions. One thing is certain–ownership does not care about “competitiveness” unless the players pay for it. While some big market teams are unhappy subsidizing others tanking, it’s not a big enough contingent to move the MLB negotiating needle. And, big dollar teams would have made money on the original owner proposal of a $180M ceiling. The fact is that MLB has move to a stars and scrubs+ cheap young players model, and that’s not going to change in this CBA. It works for the teams.
I want the players to get their due but they have to accept they’re not getting an entirely new system this time around.
Going into the offseason, I assumed we’d see the season get pushed back about 2 weeks. I haven’t seen anything that would change that timeline.
I don’t think either side is willing to commit to the game of chicken that is collective negotiation enough to lose out on an entire month of revenue. Plus, 2 weeks worth of games is the upper limit of how many could realistically be re-scheduled by adding double-headers and eliminating off-days.
Season will start July 31st
Are you aware the mlb Medium has decreased by 6% since 2017 and the players below the Medium are making 30% less than what they were in 2015.
While the owners have been making more and more with TV deals. The fact the owners want more playoff teams and to share zero percent of the revenue with the players is absurd.
If I was the players I’d give the league a window to negotiate and say I’d it’s not done by this time our next window will the July 1st. And don’t back down.
Why do you think that any sort of fairness or equity will drive the outcome? Collective labor bargaining is not a kindergarten classroom, nor is it a courtroom.
They’ll wait to the last minute, just like everything else.
Both sides agree that young players need to get paid. The luxory tax threshold will get increased, but no by a huge amount. They’ll be some sort of clause that will hurt non-competitive teams.
And this will all happen within two weeks.
I hope you are right about two weeks, and I definitely think you could be. I agree entirely with the rest of your take.
$100m floor?-IDK. teams are going to have to over pay marginal vets, just to add salary(pitt, rays. gardians..).
I think the pool of $ for those in thier 1-2nd year is a better idea than the $100 floor.
Rebuilding teams are going have a hard time giving the young players an opportunity and AB’s,if they ‘have to’ spend $ to reach thier floor.
**make a big increase$$ to teams that make the playoffs. Team gets a big $, and players get a much bigger playoff bonus. IF money is the motivator, give it to those that get in the playoffs!!
At this point, it really shouldn’t. There’s still a ton of FA to sign and of course Spring Training. The last shortened spring training lead to widespread injury. The season should and will likely be shortened, it just depends on how long.
When do we the fans make demands, without us they have nothing. We should give a timeline and tell them if they don’t meet it we don’t go to games or watch for 2 years. That will get their attention. It may be hard to not watch but something has to be done to stop this now and in the future
I’ve got a more basic approach to this. It will be settled. It will be settled about a month into when ST was to start. Due to the players families needing income, the players get the itch to play, the owners have already budged on a few things, not sure how deep the players pockets are in waiting this out. Am I wayyyy off here?? I can take the flack!
Right now, during the offseason, stalling benefits the owners more. They lose nothing in revenue and create pressure on the players by creating job uncertainty.
Once the lockout actually extends into the season, however, it benefits the players more and more to hold out because, due to the way revenue is split, the owners lose more money every single day that games aren’t being played than the players do as a collective. Plus, I’m sure the MLBPA has a fairly substantial strike fund to fall back on after 25 years without a strike.
We’ll probably see a deal happen in the “no man’s land” timeframe of around mid-March where the holdout advantage is fairly neutral.
So far apart on the core problems. June/July.
It would be a miracle at this stage of things for the season to begin in mid-april.
How can start after all-star break even be a category? there will be no all-star break, if the league hasn’t started by then. and, if the league has started before the all-star break, then the league can’t start after the all-star break.
In 2019, I missed baseball early on. But as time passed, I, along with many others that year found other things to fill my time. When the season started in July I didn’t care. I watched parts of 4 games. So if this season is cut short or eliminated I know I will get over it fast. And baseball as a business will suffer for a long time.
2024
Voted April 1st-15th. Honestly if the players and owners were greedy goobers and not be so headstrong
Both sides have been nibbling on the edges. I can’t remember what the players gave a few weeks ago but it was reported on Trade Rumors. Manfredi said the league just agreed to the Universal DH and removing compensation tied to free agents. I voted a delay but most likely late April the season starts. They both know they can’t repeat 1994.
This hasn’t been as bad as previous negotiations.
Yes. Neither side is losing anything right now. Manfred (the jerk) will be told by the club owners to start talking seriously cause they’re not going lose money and fans because of a shortened season
So Manfred apparently made a major blunder yesterday, saying that the CBT taxes would remain the same as in the previous CBA under the owners’ proposal. The league had to issue a retraction, saying that he mis spoke.
THIS IS WHAT MANFRED SAID
Question: Penalties and tax rates in the CBT have gone up. Could you explain to us the reasoning
Manfred: The tax rates are status quo. They’re the same rates that are in the expired agreement.
I think one may have a five percent change. But they’re essentially status quo rates.
The only change on the non monetary side is because of the elimination of draft compensation, some of the old penalties wouldn’t work any more because they were keyed off draft compensation and there’s a substitute for what we’re giving up by the elimination of draft compensation.
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THEN JEFF PASSAN HAS THE EXPLANATION.
Jeff PassanJeff Passan @JeffPassan
A league spokesman said Rob Manfred misspoke about the competitive-balance tax today. What Manfred said was not true. He suggested the penalties for exceeding it are status quo. They are not. Each of the three thresholds is higher. Additionally, draft-pick penalties are higher.
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Either way, Manfred admits that MLB is adding draconian draft pick penalties to harden the de facto salary cap as a trade off for eliminating draft pick compensation. So they’re really not giving the players anything without an even much more objectionable penalty.
A harder de facto salary cap in the form of CBT penalties is way, way more objectionable to the players than draft compensation ever would be. They’re giving away nothing.
The season will start on time… unless its raining in which case it will be delayed. No idea what day it will be but I stand by my prediction.
I am not saying Manfred is doing a good job, by why should he be the only one critiqued for working for the owners? You mean the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLS Commissioners do not work for the owners? Baseball always takes a bigger hit then any other sport. The NFL Hall of Fame compared to Cooperstown is a perfect example of this: Baseball gets hammered over Baines, Bonds Clemens and Dick Allen, but not one word about about Ware and Hester not making the NFL Hall of Fame and and inferior players such as Sam Mills getting in.
My thoughts what I would like to see… set the player pool at 50mil… not 10 not 105… Create a 10 mil pool for minors players that are on the forty so they get paid for performance even if there in the minors so they don’t delay there promotion … keep 6 years of control but start arbitration after year two… unite on a system that gives draft picks to players lost not just stars ala the nfl system that doesn’t punish the team that signs free agents but still gives a pick to the team that lost said player just eliminate the qo make a system where so many war makes it a 1,2,3,4 pick… nothing attached to the player… to stop tanking I suggest if you didn’t make the playoffs it goes in reverse order of every team that didn’t make the playoffs so if you had the most losses you get the last pick before playoff teams and it goes down from there that rewards teams that spend money and try to compete but there’s no value in tanking as you will end up drafting mid round one and that effects your draft money… then the little things DH in the nl (not a fan but I get it)… extra innings I propose no runners in the 10th a runner on first in the 11 then. All innings after that runner on second… last I want draft picks to be trade able along with the money of that slot… thoughts??
One of the reasons I am more pro owner then player ( although I am angry at both) is because of Scott Boras’s role in the labor dispute. His tanking charge is exhibit:A, followed by the fact a large percentage of Players Association Leaders are Boras clients. As for tanking ( a favorite Boras charge) how come MLB teams get accused of tanking, yet no one accused the Bengals of doing that to get Joe Burrow? What about Jacksonville to get Lawrence? Both guys are more likely to turn a franchise around then anyone drafted by the Pirates or Orioles. Give me a break.
Scott Boras, or the players in general, don’t use the term “tanking”. They point out the fact- and it IS a fact, that several teams spend far less on players salaries than they get from national TV revenue, OR revenue sharing.
The notion that teams TANK to get draft picks is a media creation, used by the owners to pretend they can solve it by tweaking the draft with a lottery.
Teams don’t quit spending to get draft picks. They’d be sillly if they did. They stop spending to keep the money. It will only be solved by forcing them to spend.
At this point I don’t really care any longer. My love for the game has really been hurt these past two years
What game. The one they ruined over long drawn out squabbles over $$$ that is hard to fathom for most of us, or the ones where if you want to go it is $$$ just to get in , or is it the game that once inside you wait 3 hours and 40 minutes to finish and every batter has to step out and adjust everything on his body?
It is more about the money then anything else. People in this country are suffering ( some from losing loved ones to COVID, some economically and some both. and you here about millionaire players and billionaire owners arguing about money. These people should be thanking God for their situation instead of complaining about everything ( exactly the same problem I have with Hollywood).
I’m 71 and have always loved baseball. I was a full season ticket holder for many years. I have visited many ballparks in other cities. But at this point I am becoming apathetic and wouldn’t care if they every play a single game this season. Both sides need to understand you can only push the fans so far.
With all the crap that’s going on in the world, Covid and it’s aftermath; political, social and racial unrest; border situations in the US and Eastern Europe, etc., the powers that be of “America’s Pastime” hit us with this. With that having been said, baseball is becoming less and less of a priority with me. Maybe the owners and players need to sit down and re-watch James Earl Jones speech at the end of Field of Dreams about “throughout it all, there has been one constant… baseball.”