The Angels announced to reporters (including Mike DiGiovanna of the Los Angeles Times) they’ve optioned starter Reid Detmers to Triple-A Salt Lake. Reliever Jimmy Herget heads to the 15-day injured list with a shoulder issue, and the club recalled Oliver Ortega and Elvis Peguero to take their active roster spots.
Detmers’ demotion is the most notable of today’s series of moves, as he heads to the minors for the first time this season. The tenth overall pick in the 2020 draft, the southpaw flew through the minors to reach the big leagues last August. He started five games last year and has opened this season in the rotation, taking the ball 12 times.
The 22-year-old no-hit the Rays on May 10, achieving the rare feat only 11 starts into his big league career. That’s one of two no-hitters thrown in MLB this season (five Mets combined to keep the Phillies out of the hit column in April), but Detmers’ start-to-start consistency has been lacking. He’s only eclipsed five innings on one other occasion, and he’s allowed four-plus earned runs in three of his past five appearances.
Altogether, Detmers owns a 4.66 ERA across 58 innings this season. That’s in spite of opponents hitting only .204 on balls in play against him, and Detmers’ peripherals have been disappointing. He’s struck out 18.6% of batters faced on a meager 8.7% swinging strike rate, with both marks sitting a few points below the respective league averages. The Louisville product has also given up 11 home runs (1.71 per nine innings), and the front office evidently decided it better to give him a reset in a lower-pressure environment.
Inconsistency aside, Detmers is still young enough to be viewed as a potential long-term starter. He’s drawn praise from evaluators for his secondary pitches and strong control, and he reached the majors after just one start with Salt Lake last year. The club could recall him within 15 days (sooner if he’s replacing an injured player), so it’s possible Detmers will be back at Angel Stadium before the All-Star Break.
The timing of his next promotion will be important from a service time perspective. Detmers accrued 64 days of MLB service last year, and he’s picked up around 76 more days this season. Players are credited with a full year of service upon spending 172 days on an MLB roster or injured list, leaving Detmers around the 140-day mark presently. He’ll need to spend around a month more in the big leagues this year to eclipse his first full year of service before the end of the season, which would keep him on track to first reach free agency after the 2027 campaign.
No hitter to back to triple A yikes
More so, I would be impressed that he threw a no hitter now considering his age and little experience in the bigs.
Sounds like he might become the next Bud Smith.
weird side note, Bud Smith then went in to audition for Moneyball movie
Excellent reference
With an opponent Average of only .204 against him and an ERA of 4.66, he likely needs to work on control. He’ll be back soon.
My Reid on this, he’ll be back after some adjustments.
Not with the Angels. No development team, soon to be an Astro.
They’re doing Detmers a favor like Adell. They both need to hone stuff at AAA. Both will be back but don’t rush them. The no-hitter was a high note that he couldn’t reproduce.
Hey Prov356! This kid looks to be the real deal, brother. I was impressed seeing him in some of his outings. It’s clear he’s got the requisite tools to be a high-end starter. Yanks saw him first-hand on June 2, and he performed admirably, with only 5 hits & 0 ER in his 4+ innings pitched, man. Not too many pitchers can say that against the Yankees lineup this year. They just battered Alek Manoa & he’s having a Cy Young-type year….
Future looks bright in Halo Land for this kid. You guys got a good one.
Ditto Mon Clipper, who has the where abouts at 22 to throw a no hitter? This dude is serious mound material
After the gold rush (no hitter) time to breath deep & pan for gold again.
And Detmers, “the dude”, will “abide”. More to come!
Its long over-due.
In general, I agree with honing your stuff at AAA but in our case AAA is over 4000 feet higher in elevation than the big ballpark. I’d rather have our pitchers work on stuff in AA Huntsville.
He just needs to disguise his delivery a bit more IMO. Gets kind of easy to see when that big curve is coming at times.
This looks like a wise move by GM Manasisn (sp?)? Is this an indication he is conceding that the Angels will not make the playoffs? Detmer looks like the real deal to me. Why use up valuable service time this year. Keep him under 172 and the Halos get another year of control. Maybe?
Real deal? As in 4th starter? He’s supposed to be an ace type.. if he’s going to be one, he needs a lot more work, maybe AAA is the place for him…
@kellin. I hear ya! And hopefully he will be that ace some day. But for the purposes of making the playoffs this year, as a #4, I’m thinking management saw him as an integral part of making that happen while also him gaining experience at “the show” level to be that ace at “the show” level? Maybe? So for now move him back down to AAA to hone ace level stuff and save a year of control. Definitely GM amateur hour thinking on my part, I know. Fun! Cheers!
That is a valid point, Jeff. Although I do understand the dual advantage of getting him more reps to hone his craft at AAA, & keep additional control, one does wonder if the Angels, who seem to be in contention this year, will be able to effectively replace his productivity.
@Yankee Clipper: Thanks for the get back. It would be awesome to see the Halos make a run here. Maybe that’s why they sent him down at 140? If they do catch fire, they’ve got up to 31 innings they can use and still have him under control for that extra year? Go Halos! That said, I think the GM has thrown in the towel
The Angels are in contention alright contention to finish around .500 as usual lol.
Is this an indication he is conceding that the Angels will not make the playoffs?
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That should be the assumption. They’ve gone 6-21 over the last 27 games. It’s important to be realistic and know when your window is.
Do you realize how few players actually make it through the six years of service time? Very few. Most players big league career ends before arbitration, let alone six years of service. Service time manipulation only applies to the best of prospects, not guys like Detmers.
I agree with your comment except for the last sentence. Number 10 pick in 2020 draft and #21 and #28 prospect in MLB (depending on where you look) heading into this year after making only 14 MiLB starts. He’s the type of guy I think you do have to consider service time with
@hiflew: Interesting. I didn’t know this.
Thank you. Curious to know if there is a % that better defines “few”. Also have a question. If they want to trade him, is the extra service year appealing to the inquiring team? IE more value thus the Angels get more in return? All this said, I also agree with @johnrealtime, he seems pretty legit to me as well. Cheers!
@hiflew: clarifying my curiosity about lack of service time manipulation by GMs. Seems here in Baltimore it’s definitely a part of Elias’s strategy/modus operandi when it comes to moving along prospects. He’s an Astros guy. Did he get this from Houston and brought it to Bmore?
How do you even begin to fix this team…
They are kind of caught in this never going to be terrible, but never going to be good either mode. They’ve never really invested in pitching. No real studs have come through the system. Some decent guys who may become somethings, but no real superstars. Every team has swings and misses, but Rendon is really going to bang them for a while. The Trout contract doesn’t hurt them because of the draw he is, (and he’s still a monster at the plate), but he certainly can’t do this all alone. The biggest elephant in the room right now, is Shohei. If they pay this guy 300 million plus, and I think it will take every bit of that, you now have like 800 million guaranteed, to three guys headed for the wrong side of 30. If they let him walk, and he keeps being the freak he’s been the last 18 months, then they’ll never hear the end of that. Caught in a catch-22 all over the place. So to answer your question, I don’t have a clue how to fix this mess.
Ohtani wants about 45m AAV, which would cripple this team for years to come. As much as he brings, we can’t spend that on him and have enough money to build around him, Trout, and Rendon. Its’s obvious that Moreno is more interested in making money than winning. Building a winning team would make money but he’s not willing to spend up front to do it. The nation of Japan watches the Angels because of Ohtani. I’m sure Ohtani revenue far exceeds the cost but Moreno won’t put it back into the pitching staff.
Give Ohtani whatever he wants. 45m AAV is a bargain for him. It would take 2 players to replace him and you cannot get a hitter of his caliber for 22.5mil AAV and an ace of his caliber for 22.5mil
Sure you can get a hitter of his caliber for less than 22.5MM. Michael Brantley is right there with him in OPS for $16MM a season. There are several other younger players like Austin Hays right there with him at league minimum salary.
As far as pitching goes, a good comp would be Carlos Rodon playing this year. Rodon is at $21.5 MM.
Plus you have to factor in the injury possibility. With one player in two positions, an injury means you need two replacements. With two players, the chance of injury is higher, but the replacement cost is much less.
Yes Ohtani is good, but he hasn’t been THAT good this year.
@Roy: great answer!
That was the Astros for years after the Biggio/Bagwell era ended. They were a .500 team, at best. Just a competitive team. They tore off the bandaid and got rid of everything. Worked out pretty well for them so far.
And they didn’t have anyone near Trout’s level. Unfortunately for them I don’t think anyone possesses the prospects to make a fair trade. So they will never get fair value if they ever do decide to trade him.
No smart team would give up a huge amount for a 31 year old, extremely injury prone, declining Mike Trout who is still owed around $300 million over nearly the next decade. Trout should have been traded in 2019 at the latest.
Costs were low as the trashcan was not around long enough to be arbitration eligible.
You lost me at “extremely injury prone”. That is an exaggeration if I’ve ever seen one
He hasn’t played a full season since 2018 at the latest (and that would be his only full season since 2016) and his game itself has been significantly affected by it even when he is on the field (his running game is completely over to try avoid re-injury)
savos – dude below was right. You are the king of conjecture. You are clearly not an Angles fan but you are one of the guys who would dance if your team signed Trout or Ohtani, Trout is injury extremely injury prone? Please. You lose all credibility when you speak nonsense that is easily refuted.
Trout is injury extremely injury prone? Please. You lose all credibility when you speak nonsense that is easily refuted.
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Are you saying Trout is not injury-prone? In the past 5 seasons, he’s missed:
-48
-22
-.28
-7 (in only 60 games)
-126
-20 (2022 prorated).
He never plays a full season anymore.
I agree Roy. I cringed when Scott Boras talked Arte into putting that Gerritt Cole money into Rendon. Made zero sense to me because at some point you have to pay for pitching. Shohei is that guy. Now you’re stuck.
Arte must stop trying to market this team by signing offseason “names” and actually let [fill in the blank of GM puppet] run the team.
Trout and Rendon are already on the wrong side of 30 and Ohtani has not been a freak for the past 18 months- he was a superstar last year and that’s it. He’s on pace for around 5 WAR this year, which is pretty much standard All-Star level- not remotely freak level. 1 superstar season in 5 years- that’s it. His other numbers have 4 WAR in 2018, 2.5 WAR in 2019, -0.5 WAR in 2020, and on pace for around 5 WAR this year= not remotely the profile of a true superstar. He’s a 4-5 WAR player- and this is in his prime, it’s not like he’s going to be anywhere close to this good for the next contract. One of the most overrated players I can remember- his next contract (which begins when he’s 30) will be a terrible signing for whoever acquires him.
2 nights ago Ohtani hit 2 HR’s and knocked in 8 runs. 43% into the season he has 15 HR’s and 45 RBI. His slash line is .260 / .336 / .487 / .822 / 132 (OPS+).
Last night he pitched 8 scoreless innings with 13 K’s. His ERA sits @ 2.90.
No matter what a franchise pays him in a long-term contract, they’ll get that back within a year or two in both increased attendance and TV viewership – which will translate into a new far larger TV contract. There has been nothing like this man since Babe Ruth – and Ruth didn’t pitch and hit regularly in the same season. People are going to watch him. If the Angels left him go, the Dodgers, Giants and the 2 NYC franchises will be tripping over one another to sign him.
I keep writing here that MLB is not a rotisserie league. Not in the way a team performs due to individual stats. Not in the way a team brings in revenue due to individual stats. Everything you wrote is valid if Ohtani is going to arbitration. Nothing applies to the real world of MLB.
You can look at anecdotal stats- which by the way came against terrible team(s)- if you want to. The bottom line is that he’s a 4-5 WAR player (won’t be anymore once his prime is over within the next 4 years) who has only had 1 single superstar season in half a decade in MLB, is on pace for a “staggering” roughly 5 WAR this season (standard All-Star level performance, nothing more), and who has extremely close to zero chance of making it to the Hall of Fame. He has already demonstrated fragility with his arm, so he likely won’t be a pitcher (especially an effective pitcher) for much longer, and even if a team does acquire him to continue to be a 2 way player, that also means that they would have to have a 6 pitcher rotation (awkward and complicated and basically negates the ‘saved’ roster spot). If he’s no longer able to be a pitcher in the near future (likely), then he’s just a fairly good DH who is only reliable for good- not great- power (not for BA or OBP) who can’t play the field and who isn’t a good base stealer either. All the stuff about TV deals and attendance is conjecture.
savosbiggestfan;
LOL
What planet are you living on?
P.S. You’re concerned with “conjecture”?
EVERYTHING you wrote in 2 posts is conjecture.
Wrong, everything I wrote is completely backed up by the stats. Just look at the stats and look at the injury history. Whatever team signs him will be unlikely to be on the cusp of a new tv contract, so that would negate any potential there, and the attendance thing- who cares. He might attract a busload or 2 of Japanese baseball fans to the stadiums for his games (like Ichiro Suzuki did)- big deal. There aren’t thousands of fans attending Angels games because Ohtani is on the team- not even close (just like there weren’t thousands of fans attending Mariners games to see Suzuki- an individual player’s affect on attendance on attendance- no matter how much good he is- is basically negligible until you get to Barry Bonds type level).
I’m glad someone finally said it. I tiptoe around this lightly, because everyone is in awe of Ohtani, but I have felt hes been so over-rated and over-hyped since he first entered the league.
Everyone was caught up on the two-way player, but in all reality we have had so many MLB players who wouldve and couldve done that same thing, but teams didnt believe in it nor did they want a star pitcher trying to hit on his off-days because of potential injury. The whole fascination with him being the first to strike out 8 and hit two bombs in a game or whatever he might do, has never really caught my attention because hes only been one of the first few players that a team allowed to be a two-way player.
savos – your premise is flawed in the sense that you fail to mention he does what he does from both sides of the ball. No one else has ever done that with his consistency. For the record, I really hope the Angels don’t pay him 45m AAV because that would cripple us for years to come. But stop ignoring the fact that he accomplishes what he does both at the plate and from the mound. I’m sure you would be elated if your team signed him in free agency, as would any of the current Ohtani critics.
As a side note, I went to the game on June 8 when Detmers pitched. Ohtani pitched the next night. There were over 3000 more in attendance the night Ohtani pitched. That’s more than a bus load or two of Japanese fans. That was over 10% more.
He has only contributed anything meaningful from the mound 2 out of 5 seasons (last year and this year- assuming his performance doesn’t decline by the end of this season and he finishes with at least 2+ WAR from the mound) and he is unlikely to be a pitcher for much longer- especially given the injury history and the complexity of a 6 pitcher rotation. And all that ultimately matters is overall value- not how the value is achieved (both sides of the ball vs 1 side of the ball). The saved roster spot is a myth because a 6 pitcher rotation is required for him, and even if it wasn’t, it’s not that big of a deal because teams aren’t desperate for an extra roster spot in the first place. In terms of overall value, he’s half of what Trout was from 23-37 and he’s basically the same level Rendon was.
The only way to fix the team if Arte Moreno would sale the Angels Or change the name to the Los Angeles Devils Maybe that’ll get rid of the evil cloud
Detmers will be fine. Working with Wallach might help. Angels should’ve easily kept Wallach up and designate Suzuki, but for a team going with Lagares over Adell I guess nothing surprises me. And YES, I know Adell had his struggles too but the reason they gave was a lack of playing time. How many starts have gone to outfielders not named Ward, Trout, and Marsh? Too many!!
Hey, IF Detmers has any issues with the coaching staff in Anaheim, I’m confident in speaking for Yankees fans everywhere by saying he’s welcome to come on over to try Matt Blake’s tutelage…
It’s time to pay Ohtani. I’m thinking 5/225 is plenty fair for a guy who is clearly at the top on both sides. 5/250? Or 8/450? He can earn 50 a year for 5 or 45 a year for 8. As long as his legs don’t get injured, arm problems will only cost us on the mound. The 6 man rotation should mitigate that
Can we please stop referring to the Mets game that has 5 pitchers as a NO HITTER?!?! If you go to the bullpen it’s not a no hitter. Even in today’s over managed, over analyzed game!!!
Meanwhile, they didn’t give the No-Hitter to the Madison Bumgarner, despite playing within the rules set out by MLB for that season. MLB is such a mess right now to think giving a team the no-hitter status for having 5 pitchers. Might as well give everyone a trophy on that team and say they all threw a no-hitter, even the position players.
I still think it’s hilarious that MLB listed MadBum’s no-no as a “notable achievement”. Such nonsense
A bit off the MLB average for ERA (4.01) while his is 4.66. A little more seasoning in the minors and hopefully that fixes things for him. He’s still young enough to make some adjustments. To be honest, his numbers, in relation to the MLB average aren’t that terrible.
MLB ERA: 4.01
Detmers: 4.66
MLB WHIP: 1.271
Detmers: 1.103
MLB BABIP: .288
Detmers: 204
MLB H9: 8.3
Detmers: 6.7
MLB BB9: 3.2
Detmers: 3.3
His only real red flags are
xERA: 5.01
FIP: 5.37
xFIP: 4.81
The Angels should trade Ohtani for major league ready SP and a middle infielder.
This move is probably more about Detmers service time than any “adjustments” that need to be made
If the team is going nowhere and a top prospect who spent very little time in the minors is struggling in the majors, and the GM DOESN’T send that prospect down, IMO you fire that GM. This is a no brainer for service time and other reasons
It’s more than just Detmers. Adell has been awful, but demoted, and Marsh has been awful, and getting worse. No one ever wants to quit, but the Angels need an honest assessment of their chances this year. If the come to the conclusion that this is not their year, then Detmers, Adell & Marsh should spend the rest of the year in AAA. Both for control & development purposes.
And once they do that, that frees them up to trade Syndergaard & Lorenzen. Offer to eat 100% of their salaries, and you should get something decent back. To me, it is always that you are either a current year contender, or you are a future-period contender. The middle off the road is not an attractive option.
Why Pay Anthony Rendon that money Angels fans ?
Shohei O will now dash.
Steve – “Why Pay Anthony Rendon that money Angels fans ?”
Because the contract says they have to.