After a disappointing 81-81 campaign, the White Sox enter the off-season with some clear needs to tend to if they’re to bounce back into contention with their current core of players. Among them, the catcher position, and Bruce Levine of 670 The Score reports the team has inquired about the A’s Sean Murphy.
While an inquiry into a player’s availability falls well short of any meaningful momentum towards a deal, it is interesting to consider given the White Sox have the under performing Yasmani Grandal under contract for 2023 at the steep rate of $18.25MM, while Murphy is projected to make $3.5MM in his first season going through arbitration, per MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz.
Murphy, 28, was drafted in the third round of the 2016 draft by Oakland. While his defensive prowess behind the plate was his big calling, his bat developed to the point where he quickly became one of the A’s top prospects. Since making his debut in 2019, he’s blossomed into one of the best catchers around and 2022 was his best season yet, as Murphy hit 18 home runs, slashed .250/.332/.426 and appeared in 148 games (116 at catcher). He cut back on his strikeouts this year, dropping them from around 25% for much of his career to 20.3% in 2022.
Defensively, Murphy receives strong marks for framing and ranked sixth in all of baseball on Statcast’s Catcher Framing Runs. He also ranked fifth in Pop Time – that is, the amount of time it takes the catcher to receive a pitch and get it to the base he’s throwing it to – and that resulted in him throwing out 19 of 61 potential baserunners.
As mentioned, Murphy is going through arbitration for the first time in 2022 and is expected to make a moderate $3.5MM salary. He won’t be a free agent until after the 2025 campaign, so any team acquiring him would have him for three years. All told, the price for Murphy would be steep and given the free agent catching market is thin outside of Willson Contreras and Christian Vazquez, the A’s will surely be looking for a big trade haul if they are to move him.
The White Sox could certainly do with Murphy, given Grandal’s struggles this season. The recently-turned 34-year-old hit just .202/.301/.269 across 99 games, with an alarming drop in power the biggest cause for concern. Grandal never hit much for average, but was always an OBP machine who could slug 20-plus homers each year. He hit just five long balls this past season, and saw his HardHit rate drop almost 14% from a year ago.
There’s already been reports that Chicago’s payroll is expected to drop and the team would be more focused on trades than the free agent market. With that in mind, the team could look to shift Grandal and bring in Murphy, freeing up just under $15MM or so of salary. While Grandal had a poor season and has a hefty salary, there is only one year remaining so it’s not unreasonable to think that a team could be interested in acquiring him if the White Sox are willing to kick in a bit of cash or throw in an intriguing prospect too. That’s purely speculation though, and there’s no indication that the team is shopping Grandal.
More importantly Grandal’s framing and defensive metrics tanked more than his offense
Grandal’s career is over unless he moves to full time DH or 1B.
Grandal needs to worry about his game and not trying to be a thug with JD.
They don’t have the farm system to give the A’s what they really want. Cheap young controllable talent. Lots of it.
Beane has already told them at the deadline local Bay Area guy Andrew Vaughn has to be in any deal he makes with them for his higher ticket players, like Sean Murphy. I think the White Sox match up on a trade as long as Vaughn is in the package.
Exactly why they didn’t get Montas. A lot of team will be asking about Murphy because of his low cost in arbitration years that will only now kick in. Also he is known as a gold glove catcher. He hit in the second half above almost every catcher in baseball surrounded by poor hitters.
White Sox don’t have enough ammo. They won’t get him because they’ll get outbid by another team like Cleveland or Boston.
I’d include Andrew Vaughn as the centerpiece in a Sean Murphy trade in a heartbeat if it kept top White Sox prospect Colson Montgomery out of the deal. Montgomery is their heir apparent at SS and should be MLB ready by the time Tim Anderson’s contract (with ‘cheap’ team options) expires following the 2024 season.
Clearly the A’s will want more than Vaughn in any deal but the 1B is an elite hitting talent who won’t be arbitration eligible until 2024 and a free agent until 2027. The White Sox still have internal 1B options if they move Vaughn including Gavin Sheets and Yasmani Grandal if the latter can’t be moved in a trade. Jake Burger might also be a platoon option at 1B with the lefty hitting Sheets.
Of course, the best way for the White Sox to replace Vaughn would be re-signing FA Jose Abreu and let him retire as a ChiSox lifer. If this option is in the cards, any trade involving Vaughn would need to happen sooner rather than later this offseason.
Trade a Future first baseman with a high ceiling for a guy cause you want him to retire as a White Sox (who will only have diminishing returns at the plate and in the field)?! Aaron, Are you feeling OK? The Sox would have to absolutely be out of their minds to trade Vaughn.. Especially for some catcher hitting .250 (yeah yeah ‘high ceiling’ and all). As much as I would love to see Abreu finish his career being a White Sox, the diminishing returns show that its a bad idea to think with your heart instead of your head. Sheets I like him, but he is a utility player at this point. As much as I would love to see him at first full time, Vaughn has shown far more promise since the guy is ranking even though he has been playing all over the field. (or even keep Vaughn in the OF and play Sheets at first full time)
If the Sox do this they basically are saying the window is closed and we are rebuilding again.
nrd, trading Vaughn for Murphy straight up would be a bargain for the Sox which is why it would take much more. Murphy’s OPS was slightly higher than Vaughn’s, dingers per AB about the same. Murphy plays Gold Glove defense at a premium position while Vaughn is a below average fielder at 1B and LF. Murphy’s WAR was 3.5 while Vaughns was -0.2! I think you’re too much of a homer to see that even Vaughn isn’t enough to get Murphy.
A’s have a SS in Allen for the future who just needs time to learn to hitter in this upper level. Allen is only 23 so he has time to hit. So i doubt the A’s are going after Montgomery in the deal when they have no future 1B/DH in their system.
Vaughn is a terrible OF so playing him in the OF makes 0 sense on a team with playoff future. Murphy’s stats and Vaughn stats are not much different. Vaughn struggled in the second half and needs to improve a lot against right handed pitching. So it would take more than Vaughn to get Murphy who is a better player right now. If you love vaughn that much they should keep him and pass on trading for Murphy.
@ the For the love of the game, wait WHO’s the homer?! First, Vaughn for anyone straight up is a good deal for at least both teams if not the receiving team. Second, Catchers are far less durable than than 1st basemen (The Sox only need to look at Grandal to see the drop off). and, as noted by others, Vaughn has played very sparingly at 1st in his career so far so I think you cna throw out those numbers for Vaughn. The Sox would be crazy to move Vaughn for Murphy. I also find it a bit curious, if Murphy is so great, why would the A’s want to move him for Vaughn (especially since the Sox have little after Vaughn, aside from Colas and Montgomery)?
Not a CWS fan, but Vaughn alone isn’t enough for Murphy. The Sox would definitely have to include other pieces to get it done.
And the A’s are entertaining trading him because A) they have another top catching prospect who’s pretty much MLB ready in Shea Langeliers, B) they’re poor and he’s heading into his arb years, and C) they can get a ton for him.
Aaron , no way!
Get a grip!
You think Batting Average matters….ok, next
He should be King Floched Up.
While I don’t know how you guys think you know all this, I don’t think Hahn will move Vaughn. The reason they’re not re-signing Abreu is because they want to move Vaugn back to his 1st base position. They do have one very intriguing prospect – Colsten Montgomery. So, if they refuse to include Vaugn, I’m just not sure how they would line up on a deal with the A’s. Otherwise, a trade involving Vaughn and Montgomery could work.
Trading Vaughn, Murphy, Montgomery, etc., is all a .oot point. The Sox have done this before. They float names to get the fans excited that they’re actually going to get a top line player when they actually have no intention of doing so. Jerry/Hahn/Kenny: “Hey fans, we have some interest in acquiring Bryce Harper! Now mull that over while we sit back and maybe add some cheap free agents, extend grandal’s contract and re-sign a past-it Abreu.” Guys, don’t fall for it. Remember, this is coming from a team that hired a guy who thought it would be a great idea to have Vaughn play second base for a game.
Openly heterosexual Billy Beane.
I agree. The White Sox don’t match up well in a trade with Oakland unless they are willing to send Vaughn back, which I doubt they’d do. I could see the Red Sox making a trade for Murphy. The Sox can offer Wong, Dalbec and a Top 10 prospect for him. Even though Dalbec struggled badly last year, he has a great glove and IF arm (if he plays 3B) and still has the potential to hit 30 HRs in the majors if he can fix his approach at the plate. Dalbec wouldn’t be the headliner in this deal, the Top 10 prospect would be.
The Red Sox #1 prospect would be the headliner, but the A’s would throw in another player.
The Red Sox aren’t trading Marcelo Mayer. Nick York and/or Blaze Jordan with another low level prospect and Dalbec may get it done
The A’s will take Gavin Sheets and a pitching prospect or two.
No they will not. Much better offers out there. Arizona’s OF surplus clears.
Luis Robert.
The White Sox don’t have the pieces based on the reports of the ask from Cleveland at the deadline..
Murphy is 100% not qualified to handle a playoff caliber staff. Some dumb team will give up a haul and regret the overpay in two years.
Now that is funny Murphy was runner up to GG and won the GG the previous year.
Everyone knows gold gloves mean squat. Even Marcel Ozuna has one.
Catcher gold gloves mean a lot, actually. But IRL Murphy is a top 3 overall catcher on both sides of the plate.
There isnt a lot of distance between JT Realmuto and Sean Murphy, and if you watched the games, you’d know this.
Just look at what Murphy was given to work with last year. The A’s staff was filled with minor league pitchers and even the relief staff was mostly first year players. So can you honestly says the A’s pitching staff was better than what the white sox had last year? Of course you think you know about other teams. By far Murphy was the A’s best player on the team of misfits.
Only Realmuto and Contreras clear Murphy, and its not by much, and that could change next season.
Willson Contreras couldn’t hold Sean Murphy’s jockstrap cup as a defensive catcher. Murphy at 28 is also no slouch on offense either. He’s just turned 28 and is 2-1/2 years younger than Contreras.
Murphy’s offense has improved each season and he has yet to reach his prime. That includes posting a career best 4.0 oWAR this past season.
Contreras had a 3.7 oWAR in 2022 and might need to find a different primary position in the not too distant future. His saving grace to remain a catcher might be the automated strike zone but that still doesn’t help him much in regards to handling a pitching staff, perhaps a backstop’s most important function.
Maybe Will Smith too. But yeah, I’m sure the A’s know they have a bag of gold in Murphy and Inexpext either a young, controllable piece from a ML roster – like Vaughn – and/or two top 100 prospects for them to let him go in any trade. The ask will be steep because they do not HAVE to trade Murphy now. I think they will but since they don’t have to, they can wit until they get the offer they want.
So does Rafael Palmeiro. The V!agra helped him get that GG.
True Jimmy Harvard. EVEN Ian Happ has one now. Brutal.
Playoff caliber staff? Did they just add two or three starters that I didn’t hear about ?
Silly reply. Lots of things to complain about with the Sox, but starting stuff is certainly playoff caliber. Cease will most likely finish 2nd or 3rd in cy Yount this year, Lynn and Giolito were both top 10 in Cy young for each of the previous 3 years and kopech has Cy stuff. Manager issues, check, terrible defense, check. No walks? Yep. But good starting staff.
You only listed 3 starters, and injuries always happen. Not enough. Cleveland and the Twins are roasting the White Sox unless CWS get deGrom or something.
The White Sox pitchers have shown continuously that the only show up against mostly mediocre talent, and tend to disappear when facing playoff caliber teams.
The Twins? Their current starting rotation isn’t “roasting” many teams, let alone the White Sox. Minnesota can’t match the ChiSox bullpen either. Their respective lineups might be a tossup as we post.
No chance in hell of that happening. The Sox are maxed out on payroll. Trades are their only avenue to improve.
I listed 4 starters. Cease, giolito, Lynn and Kopech. And crochet has the potential to be a good 5, but they will undoubtedly add more there.
The White Sox will add at least one starter, likely a middle to back of the rotation veteran if it’s through free agency. It’s possible they could land another front line starter in a trade, with the Marlins being a frequently rumored potential partner. A southpaw would be nice with none currently in their rotation but any decent arm should suffice.
The White Sox can match the quality of their top-4 starters with most any other team. They need an arm to replace Johnny Cueto if he signs elsewhere and perhaps one more for insurance depth. The latter may already be in-house candidate Davis Martin.
As for Garrett Crochet, he will not be an option for a 2023 rotation spot because of his TJ surgery earlier this year. His role this season will be similar to what it was expected to be in 2022 before he tore his UCL. If healthy, Crochet will be handled much the same as the White Sox did with Chris Sale early on his career and what occurred with Michael Kopech in 2021. He will be a prominent bullpen arm and also be given an opportunity to stretch out on occasion, perhaps as an opener if games start piling up due to postponements. The latter is likely to be a concern with every team because of the new balanced schedule format that will reduce games with division foes in favor of more ‘outside’ opponents.
You dont know ball if you dont think the Twins rotation isnt cooking and roasting and other words you cant seem to comprehend that mean “beating” the White Sox as both their teams stand right now. Of course if CWS get a big name they can change my opinion here, but nah, you need to respect Sonny Gray, Bailey Ober, Joe Ryan, Kenta Maeda and Tyler Mahle a bit more than you do.
Tell me youve never seen Sean Murphy play without telling me youve never seen him play. Entry level take, you cant be older than 12.
Tell me you write in trends without telling me you write in trends.
So you are 12 years old. Stop talking, you dont know ball enough.
I’m going to say this slowly…Sean Murphy literally beat THE WHITE SOX in a playoff series, almost on his own, with bat and defense. You say he cant handle a playoff rotation? He already beat YOUR FAVE TEAM SINGLEHANDEDLY IN THE PLAYOFFS!!!
Like Jimmy, did you literally start watching MLB in 2021 or something? You know absolutely nothing about MLB.
You literally think Sean Murphy, who ALREADY has led the A’s staff to a playoff series win against the White Sox, “cant handle a playoff caliber staff”, he also mashed against them. L for you.
Uh oh…roid rage.
Murphy literally beat the Sox by himself? I think I saw Bugs Bunny do that once.
No Donny. Just a Roid. LOL
He couldn’t handle a playoff-caliber staff? Based on what? He’s consistently graded out as a top-tier catcher in framing, blocking, and throwing. His framing was 84th percentile and his pop time was 96th percentile this season.
What, other than the old-fashioned eye test suggests he couldn’t handle a playoff staff?
An eye test? Bugs Bunny passed one before single-handedly defeating Yosemite Sam because he ate more carrots.
@avenger65 – Bugs also beat the Gashouse Gorillas single-handedly too. Bugs was the man, as is Murphy.
Or was it Elmer Fudd?
Carrots don’t actually cause better sight, according to new studies! 🙂
I do not see a trade between the 2 teams unless the Sox throw in Vaughn to the deal. They would need to trade a few top 10 prospects without Vaughn in the deal.
Ok see, we do agree from time to time lol
IMO if the A’s want Vaughn THEY would have to include more in the deal. Vaughn’s ceiling is so far above Murphy’s it’s not even funny. Without having to worry about running around in the OF his bat should explode now at home at 1B. Beane can ask for whatever he wants for Murphy, Doesn’t mean he’s gonna get it. There are other C’s that can be had.
So be it. Let the Sox get a different catcher than Murphy. I would rather see the A’s stay with Murphy than trade him for only Vaughn.
Danny Jansen is better anyway. And their GM isn’t delusional. Christian Vasquez is just as good and is free, As in it would take only money.
Danny Jansen is 100% not better than Sean Murphy, youre just being like an incel when they get shot down by the girl so you go directly to cowardly slander. Grow up, your posts are horrid around here. Stinky. Calling you stinky mike from now on.
“Yes, hello? I represent a Major League Baseball team that is interested in competing for a World Series title and my employer has tasked me with finding a switch hitting catcher who has never been able to hit in the postseason, can no longer hit at any point in the season period, and has seen his defensive skills deteriorate to the point where he is literally worst in all of baseball in terms of pop time; but who is as expensive as a closer or an All Star second baseman. Do the White Sox have anyone like that? If so, we’d like to take him from you and, in exchange, provide you with an actual prospect that we’ve invested in and groomed. Thank you for your consideration,” says the unseen voice in Jerry Reinsdorf’s waking daydream.
They already have Grandal that fits that description. is this a old ad?
I’ll let you know if I have any more jokes that need explaining, thanks.
ARC, read it again. The comment is making fun of Jerry Reinsdorf hoping to find someone to take Grandal off the Sox’s hands.
I know that is why I asked if it is a old ad. Whitesox need to go for it right now they have the talent to be a playoff team division winner. I don’t see any of the other teams in their division batter than what they have now. LaRussa did not manage them very good last year. The pitching staff is solid. They need to improve at 2B, Ca, and OF.
Why would that be an old ad? That would be a new ad. They’re trying to get rid of Grandal, not acquire him.
Should say “manage them very well”
The Sox may have talent, but they don’t have a game-changer like Ramirez or Buxton.
Wow. You have got to be bleeping me. You really didn’t get the sarcasm/joke?
Yeah, I think sometimes you have to just cut and run. I mean a loss is a loss, keeping a guy around just to shine the bench is not much, if at all, better than just cutting him loose, unless the Sox are hoping Grandal’s issue is an attitude and not health issue and that a new manager brings a new attitude to Grandal. I know that JR loves money than apparently his own flesh and blood but sometimes you just have to turn the loss into a win and clear a space on the roster.
And so begins the “White Sox interested in several good players but probably won’t get any of them” off season.
Just like my Cubs. Always mentioned for the top tier when they almost always shop in the low to mid-tier aisle.
Welp, if the White Sox want anyone Beane has, they know who he wants: Andrew Vaughn. Murphy is arguably a top 3 overall catcher in MLB, and has been improving every year at the plate, and is about to enter his prime. His defense is outstanding already.
Vaughn gets you the pick of anyone off that team tbh.
Not willing to give up the local Bay Area guy Vaughn? Then you aint getting Murphy or any of the A’s valuable players, and you need to stop talking.
Vaughn+a top 10 team prospect for Murphy is actually a fair deal for both sides.
For once I totally agree with you A’s Fan.
And shockingly that Grandal signing was horrible. Who could have guessed!
“Horrible” is a just weird way to frame this. I would frame his 2010-2017 seasons as him getting “severely ripped off”. You have to look at career start to finish, not single season money.
Grandal has a 37.5 fWAR player as a veteran, who also is a catcher, which gets different parameters.
I think a 37.5 fWAR catcher who has played over 1100 games in MLB over 10+ years making $100M for his career isnt a big deal – how much do you think he should have made? Serious question.
But he’s talking specifically about his current contract. Sure, Grandal was underpaid for awhile, now he’s overpaid. The fact that we was making beans before doesn’t negate the fact that he hasn’t lived up to his current contract.
Yasmani Grandal is a two-time All-Star including his most recent honor back in 2019 during his sole season as a Brewer. He followed that up signing a 4-year free agent contract with the White Sox. The 2020 ChiSox also featured James McCann in his walk year following his own All-Star selection in 2019. The two catchers split time during the abbreviated ‘pandemic’ season and were important cogs as the White Sox broke their long playoff drought under manager Rick Renteria. Each catcher posted solid offensive numbers and were Gold Glove finalists as well, losing out to Cleveland’s Roberto Pérez.
The following season, Grandal tore his left knee tendon while checking his swing on July 5th. Incredibly, he was back in the lineup on August 27th. The numbers he posted in the 93 games played around the surgically repaired knee were outstanding. His .420 OBP and .939 OPS were each career bests. It included a 1.154 OPS in the 30 games after his return. Grandal also contributed above average defensive metrics on the season despite the injury. Grandal was instrumental in helping the White Sox win the Al Central and reaching the postseason for the second consecutive year.
Grandal had right knee surgery following the 2021 season but mostly had to rehab on his own during the owner lockout. He hurt his back in June and missed about 5 weeks. He ‘tweaked’ his knee in late August and missed another 10 days. All the injuries seemingly caught up with Grandal as he followed up a strong 2021 with a career worst 2022. He’s not scheduled for anymore surgeries this offseason so hopefully a healthy slate of training under team guidance and with no rehab will result in a much better 2023 season, the final year of his contract.
according to media hype, grandal was one of top FA and best catcher available after the 2019 season because he was so good at framing pitches. Big deal. Every catcher knows how to frame the ball. I saw him play for the Brewers. He had three passed balls in one game. I wasn’t happy when the Sox signed him. Even though they got him to be their no. 1 catcher, McCann actually caught more games on 2020, including Giolito’s no-hitter, so it was apparent even to the Sox that there was more to catching than framing pitches. Because they had wasted so much money on grandal, they let the better catcher go. grandal tweaked this and tore that. If he couldn’t play at his alleged high level, the Sox should have gotten someone to replace them so that they could continue being relevant. But that’s not how the Sox do things. They continued with problem until got be a bigger problem I don’t know what managers and FOs did before analytics. Maybe there were no great players before statcast. But it doesn’t take a bunch of nonsensical numbers to know that grandal is a terrible player.
Health matters when assessing value over the life of a contract. He was great in the pandemic season, injured for half of last year, and terrible this year. So he’s been valuable about half of the time he’s been a White Sock. Considering he provided -1 bWAR for $18.25M this year, that’s about 3.5-4.0 WAR less than the value rate for an $18.25M salary.
Too much alphabet soup in his post That’s why it’s boring, like falling asleep in n math class.
Steve Stone also said he openly used steroids in front of other players (before he came to the Sox). The guy is kind of wired wrong.
Everybody took Steroids and Speed like Chicklets then. Nobody cared. what’s your point? The pills were lined up on the counter for the taking.
If you wants a sentence or headlines follow me on Twitter. On this site I have an opportunity to flex my writing skills which I enjoy. I know that is a talent many younger fans can’t grasp or appreciate in the age of Twitter and texting.
I fell asleep in math class too because I just couldn’t grasp any equation beyond batting averages and W-L percentage. It was a shame because when I was a kid I always wanted to be an astronomer. As a compromise, I settled for writing…and reading science fiction!
Hands off Murphy! He’s the perfect catcher for a “World Series caliber team” to become an actual World Series champion……..
On second thought, he can actually hit, Yankees probably don’t want that.
A Yankees fan, you should be saying something stupid like Austin Wells > Sean Murphy, does not compute
Yeah, I wish that were true. I hope Wells is as good as Murphy one day. Perhaps offensively, as he’s supposed to be a stud; but defensively, I don’t even know if he will stay behind the plate!
Murphy is one of the best catchers, one of the *only good catchers*, on both sides of the ball, obviously. Realmuto is better, but after him….? I’d probably take Murphy for all-around.
Don’t forget Adley. He would be #1 if you could take your pick of any catcher. But yep, Murph is s a stud, no doubt.
A,’s won’t take Grandal. They won’t add payroll, even to get an extra prospect. No chance.
I agree, Adley is amazing. I did forget about him, honestly, because he’s a rookie. He’s going to be so cool to watch grow into himself in the Bigs. I mean, a switch-hitting two-way catcher? Awesome.
He’s also not available, understandably. I probably should’ve written, out of any potentially available catcher, Murphy is my guy.
Oh yeah, Adley will probably shoot to #1 once he plays over 162 games in MLB (when I start recognizing players for my best of lists)
If you look at the trades over the last 20 years or so that the Sox have made with the A’s, the Sox have been fleeced on every one. History is definitely not on their side to win this trade or break even.
Vaughn, Grandal, and a top 3 system prospect (plus 10 mil) for Murphy? Not a fan of either team but that would seem fair to me. But I’m no expert on trades.
The white Sox don’t really have prospects. There’s a fairly wide range between the #1 and #3 prospect in their system.
That would work under normal conditions, but the A’s would probably still balk at it even with CWS eating $10M of that contract. Maybe $15M gets it done
I think Oakland would be looking for more quantity of young controllable players. Vaughn would be a great addition but by the time the rest of the team caught up he would be due for too much money. I wouldn’t be surprised if Oakland is looking for players that would hit the majors around 2025 with their next window of competition to start around 2027
A’s have so many catching prospects that Soderstrom (A’s #1 prospect) will have to cycle through backupC/1B/DH just to get his bat in the order.
They’re not taking Grandal.
@CCCTL – Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Shea Langliers the A’s #1 catching prospect and should be the guy to take over for Murphy should he be traded? I’m not sure Soderstrom is anywhere close to making the majors, let alone behind the plate. He was drafted in 2020 and is only 20 years old. I would think he’ll need a couple more years in the minors before he’s called up to the big club.
Langeliers no longer has prospect status. He played 1/4 of the 2022 season.
Soderstrom spent about the same time in AA and even got some AAA time. His bat is good enough they’re okay with him being a backup to Langeliers while also playing 1B and DH’ing.
Soderstrom is actually being fast-tracked for 1B/DH. He made AAA last year already. He will be up in 2023 if he doesn’t get hurt. Can’t wait! He’s a certified masher!!!
Here’s a fun trade idea:
White Sox get 2B Kolten Wong and OF Hunter Renfroe
Brewers get C Yasmani Grandal and OF Oscar Colas
That’s not bad. A little heavy on the salary going back to the Sox and Colas is almost ready for MLB. Might take a different set of prospects going to the Brewers.
Nope
Sox keeping Colas. He is their RF starter for 2023.
Grandal will be fine for one last year with Grifols help.
Sox couldn’t make a deal with Oakland last season because they did not have the trade pieces, Sox virtually have the same putrid farm system. This is just another fantasy, where Sox can claim they “had a seat at the table”. But they just leave off the part, the seat they had was a babies highchair.
As a Cardinals fan I wouldn’t mind a swap of DeJong and VerHagen for Grandal and a lottery ticket. More talent goes to Chicago in the deal, as DeJong actually posted a positive WAR last year despite his average well under .200 due to his great defence. The money isn’t far off. About 10mill for DeJong+3mill in future buyouts and 3 mil for VerHagen. The main thing is the Cardinals could finally move on from trying to push DeJong into the lineup and clear out VerHagens spot on the roster and 40 man. Grandal looked done last year but he might get in shape over the winter to make one more contract push. Especially with a club with leaders like Arenado, Goldy, and Wainwright pushing together rather than kids running the asylum in Chicago. Grandal is one year removed from a .420 obp walk machine season. Not saying this deal is ideal but if Chicago wanted to clear a spot for Murphy and get some good infield defence from Grandals sunk contract, they could do a lot worse.
And if Grandal looks done a month into the season, they can dump him without the emotional attachment they seem to have with Paul.
I’d trade grandal for a well-used Gatorade towel. Or am I over-estimating grandal’s worth?
The Sox should not be parting ways with their soon to be starting 1st baseman, not for Murphy, not for anyone, unless they know something everyone else does not.. If they did ‘have to’ trade him, it better be for a young stud pitcher proven in the playoffs as this team needs a guy who is nails when facing playoff teams (which the Sox currently do not have on this roster).
While I can understand that Murphy may have a high ceiling and may be able to do better than he has so far, 1st baseman tend to last a heck of a lot longer than catchers, as valuable as some can be.
As for Grandal..a loss is a loss, you do not compound it by continue to lose due to it. The Sox should either cut Grandal and let him be a walking injury for another club OR hope its an attitude issue at the heart of Grandal’s injuries and a new coach changes his mind set. Now, knowing the Sox luck, Grandal will take a prove it contract and then hit for the triple crown, but again one way or another he should no longer be on the club.
Would be a typical dumb Sox trade. As if catcher is the hole this team needs to plug.
At first glance I thought you said they need Puig
Probably easier to list teams *not* interested in Murphy.
Ok here’s who I got:
Blue Jays, Mets, Phillies, Dodgers, Yankees, Orioles, Royals, Braves, Nationals, Reds, Orioles, Mariners, and maybe Rangers? 12/13 teams not interested out of 30. You are right, easier than the 17/18 who are, great call!
Also you never know about the Dodgers and Yankees, they might get funky with trades and both have been linked/coveted Murphy in the past. Very likely neither will go after him this offseason, but you never know.
I’d trade Vaughan for Murphy. Catcher is vastly more important a position than 1B/DH. Building a team around a good defensive/ good hitting catcher, who are rare, is a great way to build a team that can win a title. It just seems to me that finding an adequate 1B/DH is a lot easier than finding talent at key positions.
The Sox will not trade Vaughn for Murphy not happening.
A’s are not trading Murphy without Vaughn coming back so we are both saying there will be no trade happening.
Vaughn is the starting 1B for the White Sox. They’re not trading here now, especially not for a catcher.
I prefer the Sox not trade Vaughn but it seems power hitting first basemen are more easier to come by than catchers.
Vaughn has the potential to be an Allstar caliber 1B. You don’t trade that for a Catcher.
Most smart baseball minds would trade a top-tier catcher for a similarly labeled 1B in a heartbeat, especially if that backstop has a Gold Glove pedigree like Sean Murphy.
With all the impassioned discussion involving Andrew Vaughn and Jose Abreu this offseason I’m baffled as to why GM Rick Hahn isn’t getting more heat for allowing this to happen in the first place. What prompted him to spend the White Sox #3 overall 2019 Draft Pick on a college 1B when he already had proven All-Star slugger Jose Abreu in his prime? Neither player profiled at any fielding position other than 1B as Vaughn has demonstrated the past two seasons with his forced move to the OF.
I get taking the best player available with a top pick providing they play a premium position. This approach generally gives an organization a superior athlete as well. That’s why it’s uncommon for a 1B-only player to be drafted that high. When Hahn selected Vaughn he essentially doubled down on 1B after already selecting Gavin Sheets with the team’s second round pick in 2017, again with Abreu already an established force on the southside of Chicago.
Yes, you do. Especially when that catcher is also all-star caliber.
If you think Murphy isnt a good catcher you just have bad analysis skills.
Hasn’t Yasmani been pretty banged up? At his age it very well could be over….I just don’t feel like we’re too far removed from this guy being one of the most pitcher friendly catchers in the game; with excellent on base skills.
If the WSox were to get it done, it would probably be something like #1 prospect Montgomery and whichever starter in the minors Oakland is sure they will turn into a stud b/c that’s what they do (Kelley, Vera or Thompson)……..and 3rd piece some scouting special that looks like a “throw in” but might not be. Some other club might feel compelled to top it, but that would be steep.
Grandal is likely a side issue-they’ll just put feelers out to see what random club would pay down the most amount of his 1yr left as a pure cash dump to be someone’s part-time C and DH option.
Forget Murphy if they want Vaughn.
Sox should package Eloy & Hendriks to the Dodgers for a package around Diego Cartaya. He’s blocked in LA by Will Smith. Sox can go out and trade for another closer but I’d fill that spot with Reynaldo Lopez. After his eye surgery last off, he’s pitched a whole lot better. I’d give him the chance to close if the Sox couldn’t trade/sign a closer. The Sox would replace Eloy with…Jose Abreu at DH (2yr/$26 million). Then go out in FA and sign either Benintendi to a 5 yr/$85 million contract or Conforto for 1 yr and about $21 million. Conforto might take a 1 year deal to prove to other teams he’s healthy again and look for a 4-5 year deal next year. The Sox could get a lot right now for Hendriks by trade because the FA market for dominate closers are thin. Even moving Eloy & Hendriks, the Sox could still be a playoff caliber team for 2023. They just need to stay healthy!
I’m not opposed to trading Eloy (and Moncada, and Giolito) for the right return. The Sox should focus on sluggers because their offense is pitiful. Hitting more HRs would take a lot of pressure off the starters and bullpen. They had to pitch perfectly to get wins last year. I really wish the owner and his cronies would let Hahn do his job for once. The roster needs more talent be be better than a .500 club.
Their offense was pitiful in 2022.
The White Sox still have a fairly young core following their rebuild that wrapped up in 2019. They led the AL in SLG in 2020 when they reached the postseason for the first time since 2008 under Rick Renteria and newly promoted hitting coach Frank Menechino. The core was two years younger then and included rookie Luis Robert and ‘sophomore’ Eloy Jimenez.
The White Sox slid to #6 in AL SLG in 2021 under new manager Tony La Russa and the same hitting coach. Much of this was attributed to a less healthy team with many of their key players on the IL for long stretches, none more noteworthy than Jimenez with his foolish attempt to catch a HR hit in spring training.
Last season the injuries were even more prevalent with the same manager and coaches. The ChiSox did alter their training staff after 2021 but the owner lockout affected their ability to institute any meaningful changes during the offseason. They won’t have that excuse this winter. The team will also have a new manager and hitting instructors for 2023.
I don’t see the need for the front office to make wholesale roster changes this offseason, at least with the bulk of their younger core. Hahn needs to address the holes that have been a problem for a while now, primarily with their lineup imbalance that has seen them struggle versus RHP, generally poor defense and insufficient depth.
Left-handed power hitting prospect Oscar Colas looks to be a good start in fixing their long standing hole in RF. One more solid lefty bat should be sufficient, likely coming in the form of their 2023 opening day LF. Hopefully that player will also throw some leather. FA’s Brandon Nimmo and Andrew Benintendi come to mind along with a potentially non-tendered Cody Bellinger by November 18th. Any one of those 3 paired with Robert and Colas gives the team a drastically improved defense from their 2022 alignments. The other glaring positional hole is 2B. Short of adding veteran FA Jean Segura or hoping for an Adam Frazier rebound, the new keystone addition will likely come via a trade.
You know, they say the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over again, expecting different results. The offense would be good IF: Eloy stays healthy, Robert stays healthy, Vaughn stays healthy, Kopech stays healthy, Moncada stays healthy and finds some consistency as a ballplayer, Lyn stays healthy, Giolito stays healthy and figures out his delivery and control issues, etc.
Guess what? That ain’t never going to happen. The problem is these guys are all young, injury prone and generally unreliable. I’m not saying trade them all. I’m saying the Sox front office needs to recognize that change is needed. Stop falling in love with these players who aren’t measuring up to expectations after multiple seasons. Make the roster stronger and more consistent by getting rid of guys who aren’t getting it done.
This is baseball, pal. It’s a game where excellence is achieved with talent, a whole lot of repetition and the ability to deal with failure.
The White Sox have some elite talent, especially with their still young core. The repetition has been interrupted due to injuries. You cannot assume an injured player, especially a young one, will stay that way throughout his career. The mental aspect of baseball might be the toughest obstacle. Again, we just don’t have enough history with most of these players to assume they can’t overcome adversity at the game’s highest level.
I’m not ready to give up on this ‘younger’ core of White Sox talent with yet another rebuild. Most still have multiple years of team control which was extended for a few with early guaranteed contracts. Most fans praised the early pre-arbitration extensions given to Tim Anderson, Yoan Moncada, Eloy Jimenez and Luis Robert when they happened. I was one of those and would like to see what transpires in 2023 with a new manager, coaching and training staff and some roster ‘tweaking’ before I give up on this team.
It’s an exaggeration to say the White Sox window to contend has closed with their current group. It’s not a team chock full of aging and over the hill veterans. If the team repeats its 2022 performance next year it should be Kenny Williams and Rick Hahn’s ass on the line and not just the manager and his assistants this time. If another imminent rebuild becomes necessary there is no way that the current front office should oversee it.
I half agree with you on one thing and disagree with you on another. For the former, if this group underperforms and misses the playoffs again or gets there and gets slaughtered in the first round again, then I’d say it’s time to start another rebuild. So I haven’t given up hope either, but I’m not too far from that point.
I disagree that the current front office shouldn’t oversee it, at the start anyway. Quintana for Eloy and Cease was a terrific deal. Eaton for Giolito and ReyLo ended up pretty well. Sale for Moncada and Kopech could still work in the Sox’ favor if Kopech finally realizes his potential, but that’s the only major deal that might not work out and it’s mostly due to Moncada not caring anymore. And before anyone points to the Tatis trade, that wasn’t for rebuilding, for one thing, and for another, nobody knew what he’d become. (Plus, I wouldn’t want the Sox burdened with his kind of contract anyway.) So really, as long as Hahn isn’t trading middle IF for pitchers, he’s done pretty well stockpiling talent. Rounding out the roster is where the FO has failed miserably. Let them start the rebuild, then cut them loose.
One other thing that the front office did well in their first rebuild was to promote Robin Ventura’s bench coach Rick Renteria to the manager position. Renteria had a solid history of player development as a minor league manager and continued that with his first MLB gig with the Cubs in 2014 before being dumped in favor of Joe Maddon when the latter became available from the Rays during his two week opt-out window.
Much like the aftermath of the rebuild where the front office failed to supplement their impressive young core with the proper finishing touches, they also made the huge mistake of launching Renteria after he helped break their 2008 playoff drought with a playoff appearance in 2020. Renteria had helped navigate two successful rebuilds in Chicago but only had one year in which his roster was capable of contending, those 2020 White Sox. Renteria had one year left on his contract when Hahn decided to launch him and before JR stepped in and forced his pal Tony LaRussa into the dugout.
We’ll never know what Renteria might have done in 2021 with the White Sox or with the Cubs in 2015 and beyond had Maddon not become available. All I know is that Ricky got screwed twice in Chicago for developing two great young rosters. The Cubs at least won a championship in 2016 before ‘Genius Joe’ fizzled with his incessant micro-managing and failure to take any blame. The White Sox had no such luck with LaRussa in his two year run following Renteria’s firing.
All that said, I would still launch the current front office if another White Sox rebuild became necessary. They’ve already replaced La Russa with their next ‘Renteria’, Pedro Grifol. Like Ricky, he’s a player-friendly manager who has a resume of success in player development, is bilingual and comes with excellent overall communication skills. Unlike Renteria, Grifol had never managed at the MLB level when going through his interview process to secure the White Sox gig.
Bottom line: I would not not trust the front office with another rebuild if they fail to properly fortify the 2023 roster this offseason. They did a nice job in adding prospect pieces from other teams in their prior rebuild and also picked the right manager to oversee their development at the MLB level. They also continued tapping into the Cuban pipeline that began with Minnie Minoso during the White Sox ‘Go-Go’ era.
The jury is still out on this front offices ability to secure other international amatuer talent and their ability to scout, draft and develop domestic talent on a par with other MLB organizations. When they do hit on a prospect it too often creates a logjam with their MLB roster. They wind up with solid first basemen (Vaughn, Sheets) and good DH options (Jimenez, Burger) when those positions were already accounted for.
They have also acquired and developed some nice pitching prospects (Cease, Giolito, Kopech, and maybe Lopez) but have had less success drafting and developing arms (Rodon and some bullpen pieces). Where are all the White Sox draft picks who play premium defensive positions? How many All-Star or even decent catchers, shortstops, second baseman and CF’s have the White Sox drafted and developed with the current regime? Defensively challenged Tim Anderson and who else? Maybe Nick Madrigal who they gave away to the Cubs?
The White Sox front office hasn’t done enough to warrant another shot at developing a ‘championship’ contender if this current team fails. The window is still open but will begin closing after this season with Giolito and Lopez eligible for free agency. A few veteran contracts will also expire including Lance Lynn, Liam Hendrick (maybe), Anderson (maybe) and Yasmani Grandal (thankfully).
The Sox could get a lot by trading Hendriks. Just like the Brewers did by trading Hader.
20 other teams are interested in Murphy…so this isn’t news, but it would be a huge mistake.
Why would it be a “huge mistake”? Enlighten us, please.
Getting a top 3-5 catcher in MLB is a “huge mistake” I swear so many of you are just so lost in the sauce…
Only way I can see it as a huge mistake is with the assumption the White Sox massively overpay, which is a very distinct possibility. But without knowing the actual cost, it’s hard to argue against the idea even if I don’t think there’s a chance in Hades of it happening.
The Sox are in a terrible position. Trading Grandal is impossible. No one wants a guy who is bad defensively and didn’t hit for power or OBP. They are going to have to hope he reverts back to 2021 levels. Trading Vaughn would be stupid too. They won’t get anything for him as the worst defensive OF in MLB. They have to put him at1B where he can concentrate on his offense. I teach hitting lessons and I am a huge fan of Vaughn’s stick. They cannot get Murphy unless they sell a bunch of guys while their stock is low. That would be dumb. They have to bring in some free agent LH OF and hope a whole lot of guys have bounce back years. That is their only hope.
Nobody trading for Vaughn is doing so to put him in the OF. It’d be to have him at 1B or DH, so his OF defense wouldn’t factor in. You’re right on Grandal, but injuries and surgery have hampered him last year. I don’t think he comes back to 2021 form (a 158 WRC+ was better than even JT Realmuto has ever had, by a wide margin), but I do think he at least returns part of the way and doesn’t make fans groan every time they see him in the lineup.
Sox may have to start deferring contracts with key players. I believe that will be the case with Cease. To go beyond 2030 would be silly, by then you are going to need every nickel you can find. Sox long ago had pay for performance deals, none of the other teams followed suit. Guaranteed money is the problem, yet tougher sports like football, hockey limit them. Bulk of the money should be for innings played and performance. The hype over .300 hitters who don’t even play 81 games is so out of whack that discussing stats is a waste of time, who cares, they won’t make the HOF. Making use of a player sitting at home after the season starts is making more sense ala Carpenter on the Yankees did, till he got hurt and poof there went their season. Start the season with minor leaguers see how they do, then bring in the vets.
There are two ways the Sox get Murphy:
1. Giving up Vaughn, which should incentivize them to keep Abreu
2. Giving up Colas and probably Montgomery as well. There’s just nobody else of significant value in their farm. Some guys who may be major league contributors, but are either utility types that won’t land an All-Star caliber catcher or years away like Vera.
With the Sox looking to cut payroll (and probably use last year as an excuse to never go that high again until there’s a new owner), I don’t see either option happening. Prepare for a minor trade for some LH OF castoff, a reclamation project 5th starter, and rolling with a bevy of unpalatable and unproven options at 2B.
Agree with your Sean Murphy take which would be considered a blockbuster trade by the way. I can also see Rick Hahn orchestrating a blockbuster deal for other needs including an additional left-handed hitting corner outfielder, a starting second baseman or a significant starting pitcher provided those players don’t possess big contracts.
It’s far less likely the White Sox will satisfy any of their roster needs with an elite free agent as you suggested.
I never suggested anything of the sort. Even when I said they’d keep Abreu if they traded Vaughn, I said later I don’t see that option happening because they’re looking to cut payroll. My biggest hope is Benintendi, but I’m already preparing myself for disappointment on that front. As I said, I think it’ll be a minor trade for a LH OF, a has-been #5 starter, and Mendick/Sosa/Romy/Garcia (shudder) at 2B.
It would be so, so not worth giving up Colas and Montgomery, Even Vaughn is too steep a price. That’s the problem with this team, they have so little going for them that they can’t make trades without substituting one weakness for another, They have no positions of strength or depth from which to trade from.
This team is bad at several important things (hitting vs RHP and team defense being the big two), is excellent at basically nothing, and is like 2 or 3 star caliber players away from belonging on the same field as the Astros. Going to be a lean 2023 for fans, we can only hope that after this year and Grandal/Lynn/Kelly/Diekman gone, with Garcia and Moncada the following year, that they enter the FA market after 2023 like they should have done after the 2020 and 2021 seasons. As it stands, nobody is going to be proven wrong that stated that this team is going nowhere in the playoffs until they sign somebody much better than Grandal. Just a pathetic organization full of empty promises, greed, and ineptitude.
If healthy the 2B job is Mendicks, Sox have a potential left fielder/dh in TA, and a better SS in Andrus if signed short term with backups in Gonzales, Garcia, and Sosa. If TA doesn’t like the outfield get rid of him and his ego, personal problems, injuries, etc. Change the SS not the game. Andrus proved that. Jimenez is a DH, Vaughn and Sheets 1B, Robert, Engle, Colas in the outfield. 3B and catching to go with Zevala are the problems should have been better but it isn’t. Multi player swap with Seattle players that showed up everyday is an answer. Pitchers Flexen, Brash, for Giolito with Moncada, TA, in the mix wins it for the Sox
Why would the Sox want to keep Vaughn and not trade him for Murphy? Simple, Reliability. Any catcher is one knee injury away from being useless.. Heck the Sox already got one of those in Grandal. Murphy could be great, he could be one of the best in the league, or he could wrench a knee or otherwise get injuries to his lower extremities early in his career and he becomes worthless (at least as far as being a catcher goes). I’m guessing I’m not the only one thinking that if Oakland is open to move him. If Murphy is available, there is a reason. If he really is that awesome, why would the A’s trade him instead of being used as a cornerstone in their own org? I mean if the guy is THAT good, you pay him, Oakland or not.
Vaughn looks to be the real deal and at 1st anchoring the position for possibly 10+ years. Finally, I have seen the Sox fleece themselves too often with Beane in giving up a lot for not a lot so I’m loath to see the White Sox take the bait again.
> If Murphy is available, there is a reason.
And that reason is “he’s hitting arbitration and we don’t expect our window to be open before we’d lose him to free agency, so we’re trading for prospects”.
See, that’s not that hard to understand.
Plus the A’s have one of the top catching prospects in MLB in the minors.