With the 12-year agreement between the Mets and Carlos Correa still in limbo, Jim Bowden of The Athletic reports that the Twins have not only jumped back into the mix for Correa but have emerged as a legitimate candidate to re-sign him (Twitter link, with audio, via MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM). SNY’s Andy Martino, meanwhile, writes that the Mets have grown “very frustrated” with the state of negotiations and have even contemplated walking away from the deal. Talks between the Mets and Correa aren’t dead, Martino emphasizes, but it’s nevertheless a pessimistic turn in what has become a wild, unparalleled free-agent saga for Correa.
The latest wave of drama comes on the heels of an evening report from the New York Post’s Jon Heyman, which indicated Correa and agent Scott Boras had engaged at least one other team as recently as yesterday afternoon. Heyman, too, noted that Minnesota had been in touch with Correa’s camp in recent weeks.
The Twins and Correa have “some momentum,” per Bowden, who adds that Minnesota appears more willing to take on some risk regarding Correa’s medicals than either the Giants or the Mets. The Twins’ most recent offer to Correa was a reported 10-year, $285MM pact, though that came before the Giants blew them out of the water with a 13-year, $350MM bid. It’s unclear whether Minnesota has made any alterations to that offer.
That Giants agreement feels like ancient history, as San Francisco canceled Correa’s introductory press conference after his physical gave the team some trepidation. There’s no indication that the Giants entirely halted their efforts to sign Correa, but while they were determining their next steps, the Mets swooped in and agreed to terms with Correa on a 12-year, $315MM pact. Shortly thereafter, however, the Mets raised their own concerns regarding Correa’s physical. That was nearly two weeks ago. A deal has not yet been finalized.
At issue for both the Giants and the Mets appears to be a nearly decade-old leg injury and corresponding concerns over how that may impact the All-Star infielder down the road. Back in 2014, while playing in the Astros’ minor league system, a then-19-year-old Correa suffered a fractured fibula while sliding into third base. The injury required surgery, and a metal plate was inserted into Correa’s leg.
The exact concern regarding the long-term stability of Correa’s leg isn’t clear, but both the Giants and Mets have at least been concerned enough to pump the brakes on their reported agreements. The Mets have reportedly discussed adding a clause that would alter the terms of the deal in the event of a serious leg injury to Correa. It’s not known whether they’ve also sought to reduce either the length or total guarantee of the agreement.
Correa, of course, spent the 2022 season in Minnesota, where he slashed .291/.366/.467 over 590 plate appearances. That came under the terms of a three-year, $105.1MM contract between the two parties that was struck last March, but Correa triggered the first of two opt-out clauses in the contract following the season, in hopes of securing the long-term deal that eluded him in his last trip through free agency.
While it’s easy to assume the Twins have a full grasp of Correa’s medical situation themselves, The Athletic’s Dan Hayes reported in late December that the team did not conduct an extensive examination of Correa during the course of the season. That’s to be expected, but it’s particularly noteworthy given that Correa had a late-September injury scare with the leg in question, wherein he remained down on the field for several moments after being thrown out on a slide into second base. Correa limped off the field, and although he remained in the game, he acknowledged after the contest that he had briefly felt numbness and vibration in that surgically repaired leg.
That incident occurred on Sept. 20, and Correa did not miss any time in the subsequent, final weeks of the season. If there were any lingering issues, they weren’t made apparent through his performance on the field. Correa batted .346/.393/.481 with a homer and four doubles in 56 plate appearances from Sept. 20 through season’s end.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
This is fun. Just backload this deal and pull a Bauer on him when he stops producing. It worked for the Dodgers (mostly).
dirkg
Uncle Steve: this was a gift from the baseball Gods. You have Lindor/Escobar; no need to extend your franchise considering teams are paying (beyond) top dollar for available shortstops. You have a top SS. You’re paying WAY above top dollar for a third baseman.
Play Escobar this season and next season make a run at Matt Chapman or Manny Machado. Those are third basemen worth investing in.
top jimmy
Agree completely except I would keep the option on the table of handing 3B to Baty next season if he shows this year that he is ready. Why hand out another mega-contract (and hurt your draft position) if you don’t have to?
deGromTexasRanger
The Mets should trade Baty to the Rangers so he can play Leftfield!!
Blue Baron
@Degrom: OK, Baty for Leiter and Rocker. Deal?
JackStrawb
Why? Because Baty’s not a 3Bman, at least not yet, and it’s not close. Averages 35 errors a season and may not even be able to play LF (see Dom Smith and JD Davis in this regard).
The Mets yanked him up a year early because they scrod the deadline and didn’t get the hitter they needed. Put him in AAA, tell him he’s not getting promoted in 2023, and he needs to work every day with a fielding coach, for several hours a day. It’s his best shot, given LFers who can’t really play LF are a dime a dozen.
Blue Baron
@Degrom: How do you know he is before he even makes it? And Baty isn’t?
Flyby
@Jack
Actually the reason they called him up was they lost 3 3b players in the span of a week with Guillorme and Escobar hitting the injured list and McNeil being banged up and day to day and really only available for pinch hitting. (wrist or ribs cant remember which), so it was either call up Baty, bring up a lesser bat 3B in i believe it was Sanchez or Blankenhorn, play McCann at 3B, or start Marerro who was just called up himself to be the backup infielder for Giullorme. Im not really liking any of those options tbh other than Baty.
You could say if they didnt trade davis they would be fine and you would be right, but he was getting traded if not for ruf then for a reliever or perhaps a lottery ticket prospect because he had fallen out of favor with the mets brass and is really the only piece that had some trade value that wasnt part of the plans. I still would have rather kept him over ruf even if he never swung the bat again because atleast we would have had some depth.
CleaverGreene
He’s as good a 3B as Escobar, Jack.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Hi, Blue Baron. This is a creepy old man stalking me on the internet and impersonating me. Please ignore his comments. Rocker is possibly a top of the rotation guy, but this man is insane. Ignore the troll.
dlw0906
JackStrawb, I’ve disagreed with you in the past but here I couldn’t agree with you more about Baty.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Blue Baron is that your real mugshot, or someone famous I’m supposed to know, or all of the above?
TJT88
Wtf
Blue Baron
@Ignorant: Is your username a reflection of your self-image? It seems quite accurate.
Steve Rogers
Wow! Mets seam to have a hard time keeping to its player commitments. Whether it’s the drafting of Rocker, trading for Baez or free agent signing of Correa. I believe they call it a NY Chit Sandwich.
Fever Pitch Guy
Not directed at anybody in particular, but why are there TWO nearly identical handles professing to be fans of deGrom and the Texas Rangers when neither one of the posters has Jacob’s name typed correctly?
Sorry I’m not trying to be mean, but if you’re supposedly a big fan of a player … type the damn player’s name right!
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
1) That other guy is a troll. He is jealous and has been harassing me since Eovldi. 2) deGrom looks stupid, so I just corrected it to look better.
Fever Pitch Guy
Texas Ranger – Okay thanks for the explanation.
JackStrawb
@Flyby Thanks for the considered reply. I’ll only say that Davis (who might even be a worse 3Bman than Baty), shouldn’t have fallen out of favor w/ the Mets—at least, not at the plate—given how immediately he turned it around in San Francisco. I think he had a 5 game hitting streak with the Giants, missed one, then had a 3 hit game, ending the year with them with a 140 OPS+ and is penciled in for now as their cleanup hitter for 2023.
That’s a helluva lot for the Mets FO and coaching staff to have missed on, especially when the team dealt Davis and three other useful players for Darin Ruf. It just smelled a lot like the team that couldn’t figure out they had an All-Star on hand when they let Justin Turner walk for nothing. In Davis’s case it was for significantly worse than nothing, given Davis and the other trade pieces.
JackStrawb
@dlw0906 Thanks, compadre. I worry a little about a system that had all of Vientos, Mauricio, and Baty for several years apiece and hasn’t been able to turn even one of them into a promising LFer, let alone an adequate 3Bman given they all came up as SS’s or 3Bmen. Every one of them has the same error rate of around 35 per season, pro rated, as he did when he came up. I get that errors are not the best stand in for fielding competence, but given the incompleteness of public milb fielding stats, the figures we have overall don’t show any of them improving across as many as six seasons in the Mets system.
It might be they just had the misfortune to draft three guys who all stalled out in the field, but that’s probably not the way to bet. Also, Cohen jumping at Correa suggests the organization isn’t expecting any of the three to succeed at 3B. Cheers,
Cardsfan21
While I’d selfishly love to see you guys overpay for more than a decade, couldn’t agree more
metslvt17
I just disagree with the idea of waiting when you have two old Cy Young winners atop your rotation NOW. Go for it NOW.
iverbure
How on earth did it work for Dodgers? Do people nowadays just say dumb stuff and not even bother to look up what they say is true? I know they just mute the people when they ask them to defend they’re ignorant opinion.
Blue Baron
@iverbure: To say nothing of THEIR ignorant OPINIONS.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
It worked because they didn’t have to pay a good amount of the deal. The decision to release them was idiotic. You should really look at how bad the deal was and how the sunk cost was all self-inflicted. He was never worth the money, and the performance part applies more to Correa than Bauer here once Correa’s contract ages.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
@Blue, why are you so acidic with all your posts?
You can disagree with an explanation, but you’re just Baron of brains…
Mrski
Time to package baty or play him.
LosPobres1904
You aren’t paying for any of this, it’s a billionaires game.
padam
@Degrom – it didn’t work out. Dodgers are on the hook for this year.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Yes, but for prior years, they got to wipe out his awful contact
deGromTexasRanger
Dodgers should have honestly just kept him tough to see such a talented pitcher get bounced for not doing anything wrong
CaptainJudge99
Report: Mets are frustrated by Taint Correa’s 2nd failed physical, but the Twinkies are the only team in MLB that will pass his 3rd physical, even if he’s injured. Got it. Understand all of that?
SportsFan0000
Not tainted.
Has past injury on physical.
Teams do “due diligence” so they don’t sign an injured player who is not likely
to live up to his contract.
Surprised that Boros has not worked out a deal like he has with past injured player clients and teams.
Correa and Boros must compromise also…since no team is giving them 300M+ without adequate assurances and/or compromises to protect the team also.
CaptainJudge99
Basically help wanted: sign the best injured player available. Smh
luclusciano
“Pull a Bauer on him”?? Dodgers still pay his $30 million+ salary. The team that signs him will still be responsible for what ever they backload in the event they DFA Correa. A trade would transfer the cost, but who would take him down the road if his leg or back is acting up as the doctors “expect”
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I meant get him suspended at the end, not DFA him.
Wagner>Cobb
Lol.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I may have said this before, but Arod >>> Wagner.
Wagner>Cobb
You have.
Maybe something we can agree on: prime Michael Young was a beast.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
But I don’t. Lol
Wagner>Cobb
You don’t think Young was a beast? Preposterous. One of the best pure hitters of his generation.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
A career high 131 OPS+ I’d one if the best? He’s almost as overrated as Pete Rose and Derek Jeter. I did cite batting average since .358 is really good. However, a slap singles hitter with occasion power and no defense isn’t too impressive. I’d even divide defensive WAR by 2 to account for it being stupid, but he still wasn’t that good at hitting either.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
So many stupid autocorrect errors here
Wagner>Cobb
This is where “advanced metrics” loses me. Once it becomes the be all end all, it’s nonsensical. A guy with 2,300 hits in 14 years “wasn’t that good at hitting”. A guy with 6 seasons of 200 hits or more “wasn’t that good at hitting”. I guess Ichiro wasn’t that good at hitting either? Also, averaging 36 doubles per year isn’t really “singles slap hitter” territory. Advanced metrics has to be used in conjunction with counting stats. People can’t just ignore them.
Rose and Jeter are overrated? Again, maybe you don’t prefer their offensive profile, but you can’t deny their skill. Part of a hitter’s job description is to get hits. Guys like Rose, Jeter, and Young did something way better than their contemporaries: they got tons of hits. To act like there’s too much value placed on that skill is imprudent.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I’m not too much of an advanced metrics guy. If anything, I hate WAR and using defensive WAR at all. Still, I’m not a Wins/Hits/RBIs guy either. Look at Nomar Mazara’s 100+ RBI year. I just don’t see the value in a guy like him. He had poor plate discipline, he felt entitled to third base and threw a tantrum when they got Beltre, he made too much, and batting average is not a good primary stat. I am not basing my take off any one Advanced metric. OPS is probably the best offensive measure. 15 homeruns aren’t much, and those 7 steals don’t mean much, especially for a guy whose main value came from playing defensive positions like 2nd and SS. He was bad defensively, so it’s like basically having a DH hit like that, at which point he isn’t all that good. He got lots and lots of at bats. It’s like how the Yankees cheated Judge into the AL record books by hitting him leadoff. The per 162 games/650 at bats/600 at bats or whatever you prefer is better. He just played a lot. I’m just more interested in real hitters, I guess: Garciaparra, Rodriguez, Han Ram (steals machine), and even Reyes. Nothing about Young impresses me. Jeter is probably the best of the 3, but Rose and Young just had longevity. Cobb hit .366 or .367 with the disputed hits and Rose was at .303. This is why even batting average is better than hits.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Also, Wagner, this is just a pet peeve, but ending punctuation always goes inside the quotes.
Wagner>Cobb
I understand and agree with pitcher wins being mostly useless. I still see value in RBI’s, though not by themselves. How on earth are hits not a valuable stat though?
I stated that Young was a great pure hitter, To me, that is the simple essence of hitting. At it’s most basic level, getting a hit is always a success. Given how talented pitchers are in every generation, if one is able to get more hits than his contemporaries, then he has to be considered a good hitter.
I couldn’t disagree more with the phrase “real hitter”. What’s that supposed to mean? Pete Rose was a fictional hitter because his OPS+ wasn’t high enough? The difference between Jeter and Nomar, for example, is their profile. Just because Jeter hits with less power doesn’t mean his skill wasn’t real. His 3,000 plus hits really happened.
I can agree with you regarding WAR and defensive WAR though. Useless metrics.
Wagner>Cobb
Claiming “hits” aren’t a legitimate or useful stat is my pet peeve.
DoritosLocosTaco
If it’s a period that’s true. Question marks go outside the quotes if the sentence is a question but the quote was not.
advplee
I hate the Yankees but to say they “cheated” to get Judge 62 home runs is not just wrong, it is stupid.
utah cornelius
I’m not a Yankee fan but there’s no way you can overrate 3,465 hits.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Who in the world would normally hit Judge leadoff? Please provide advanced stats if you can regarding top homerun hitters ever having hit first. It’s inefficient and goes against the team’s best interests and logic.
Wagner>Cobb
They can hit him in whatever part of the lineup they want, whenever they want. That’s not cheating, especially in an era like today where people argue that the best two hitters should hit 1st and 2nd (not something I personally agree with).
DoritosLocosTaco
There’s an argument to be made about having your best hitter bat lead off to increase their number of at bats. Why bat him fourth and decrease the number of times he can contribute to the game?
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Scoring runs means something. Leadoff homeruns and the worst guys at 8 or 9 hitting before you make no sense. You need at least 1 guy ahead of him. I get the Trout/Mauer/Kinsler second thing, but 2nd or 3rd is still more reasonable than hitting first. The thing that I find suspicious is they started this at the end of the season and usually hit him lower. It was like once they clinched, it was all about him and not the team.
utah cornelius
Rose just had longevity? Longevity itself is an athletic gift that sets people apart. He also had more hits (4,256) than anyone will likely have again. The dude had over 200 hits TEN friggin’ times. He made great use of that longevity. Was he as great as Ty Cobb? No. Was he still a perennial star? Absolutely.
DoritosLocosTaco
I don’t follow the Yankees, so I can’t speak to their usage of where he batted in the lineup. This whole discussion comes back to whether you think RBIs matter or not. Personally, I think they do and there’s value in putting pressure on opposing pitchers that’s not quantified in statistics. I believe judge will get more fastballs and pitched to more often if he had a fast runner on first base distracting the pitcher. So I do believe he’s better batting lower in the lineup like you do, but I’m just saying that I can see the argument from the other side as well. Either way, I don’t view it as cheating. Cheating is banging trash cans to tell a hitter which pitch is coming.
Wagner>Cobb
An opposition argument would be: some hitters have been hitting 3rd or 4th their whole lives and feel very comfortable there. The psyche of the hitter matters, so if a hitter believes he is a traditional “run producer”, it may be better to hit him 3rd or 4th where he feels comfortable. A happy player is an effective player. The human side can’t be ignored because the game isn’t played on a spreadsheet.
westcoastmetsfan
But he leads off only once in a game
DoritosLocosTaco
That’s a fair and reasonable argument. My counter to that would be 1) it’s the only time in the game you have control over who is hitting lead off and 2) whoever is batting 8 and 9 need to be good players that could enhance the production of the lead off hitter. If your 8 and 9 hitters are essentially 1 and 2 hitters, then they are getting less at bats batting 8 and 9 than batting 1 and 2. So batting judge third is, in my opinion, better. That being said, I understand your argument and it’s valid.
Wagner>Cobb
Regardless, part of a player’s self-identity is where they hit in the order.
DoritosLocosTaco
I mean, I guess? I don’t disagree with this statement, but I don’t think that’s as big of a deal as you’re making it out to be. Keeping a player happy is one thing, but psyching yourself out by the position in the batting lineup at this level is equivalent to someone who plays left field being put at right field to me. If you’re a professional, you work through this and you’ve batted elsewhere throughout your life. Likewise, I don’t think pitchers who are aces mind when the team gets another ace – I would think they would like the competition and making the team better. Yes, only one gets to start opening day, but is being bumped to the number 2 starter that psychologically scarring? I don’t think so. Everyone is different though, and I hear what you’re saying.
Alex Snow
Having your best hitter hit 2nd or 3rd also guarantees he comes to the plate in the first inning. Why are you skipping those two spots?
Blue Baron
@Doritos: Speaking of pet peeves, LEADOFF is one word.
DoritosLocosTaco
Duly noted.
disadvantage
@DeGrom
You know you can fix autocorrect errors as you go and not make a separate comment announcing them, right?
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I usually refresh to see the comment upload. That is why I can’t edit like I otherwise would be able to for 5 mins.
disadvantage
@degrom
I see that you re-read your comments and catch typos. Do you ever re-read them and catch your bad takes?
First, cheating??? The Dodgers had one player hit over 30 HRs last year, and he was their leadoff hitter. George Springer is good for 25-30+ HRs (when he’s healthy) and the vast majority of his career has been as a leadoff hitter. Kyle Schwarber led the NL in HRs last year, 38 of which came as a leadoff hitter. So apparently, four playoff teams (Dodgers, Blue Jays, Phillies, and Yankees) were all cheaters. Shameful.
Or perhaps you think the real reason the 2019 Astros were cheaters was having a guy hit nearly 40HR from the leadoff spot?
Second, “it was all about him and not the team” is your response to Aaron Judge batting leadoff? Do you not think his teammates and fans were his biggest cheerleader ever time he hit a home run? He only had about 34 game as the leadoff hitter, and only averaged about 0.2 more RBI per game. If you apply the number of RBIs he hit as the 2nd hitter to the entire season, he hits about 138, so 7 more over the course of an entire season. The Yankees had guys like Stanton and Rizzo who could also knock in runners, so they were just fine with Judge leading off. Not to mention, if Judge DID get an extra AB in a game, it would be at the end of the game where those extra RBI really count. If he comes up with two outs in the 9th, that extra AB could be the difference between a win or a loss. Not that that’s likely, but it’s not like they were purposefully tanking the team JUST so Judge could hit more homeruns.
Jemo
No it doesn’t. Wagner was right. When the entire sentence is in quotes, the punctuation goes inside the quotation mark. When only the last part of the sentence is in quotes, the punctuation goes “after the quotation mark”.
JackStrawb
104 career OPS+? If he’s a ‘beast,’ so’s your house cat.
GASoxFan
And yet, there were supposedly scientific studies by an accomplished scientist that found that Yankees stadium received allotments of an older more juiced baseball while other parks got the newer more deadened ones.
That’s where any allegations of ‘cheating’ to get the record for judge comes in.
disadvantage
@strawb
Michael Young hit .300 and had a .346 OBP for his career, which is pretty darn good. He had 200 hits in a season 6 times (including 5 straight). In 2004, he hit .331/.385/.513 24 HR 91 RBI with 221 hits, and struck out fewer than 100 times in over 650 ABs. By comparison, Bichette hit .290/.333/.469 24HR 93RBI with 189 hits last year. Both led the league in hits, and both had similar power numbers (but Young’s OBP and SLG were about 5% higher). Young’s OPS+: 109. Bichette’s: 127.
Yes he had 104 careers OPS+, but perhaps OPS+ isn’t the best-defining stat for a player who was a perennial top 5-10 in hits player during the steroid era. So yes, he is a “beast”. Although re-reading your comment, my house cat is absolutely a beast (you should see how he clobbers his toy mouse), so I see we actually agree on that.
Troutahni
Nobody hustled like Pete. I mean his nickname was “Charlie Hustle”.
Pete Rose is also 2nd in all-time doubles behind Tris Speaker.
Did you also know he turned a large proportion of his singles into doubles just by hustling way more than the average player. He holds the National League career record in doubles. He also played during the dead ball era in the late Sixties. Half of his Home games with Cincinnati and Philadelphia. They were part were of the generic symmetrical ballparks built in the late Sixties and early seventies. Most of those symmetrical ball parks resided in the National League, like the old Veterans Stadium, Riverfront, Busch, Astrodome, County Stadium. He played his entire career in pitching friendly National League Ball parks.
Many of you metric nerds and announcers on TV never give enough credit to players who start rallies,especially in later innings. To much credit is given just to the guy who knocks in the winning run. The art of getting on base when the pressure is really on, especially when your team is losing. You can’t knock in winning runs without base runners clogging up bases.
I watched Pete play and I can tell you that many of my friends who played little league in the seventies and high school in the eighties tried to emulate Pete. Our Fathers would tell us, whether it was football or baseball, the right way to play baseball was Pete’s way. I never saw a player respect the game while he played than Pete Rose.
It’s a shame that the all-time hit king is not in Cooperstown. It would be nice to honor Pete with entry into the hall, but give him an asterisk on his plaque if it makes you feel better.
Questioning Pete the ball player’s skills is blasphemy. Desire and effort should also be a Hall of fame quality to consider.
By questioning whether he was a good player is an incoherent observation. Your ignorance is only the tip of the iceberg, but I will stop here.
richardc
Michael Young was great, but give me Chipper and Edgar Martinez.. if we are just randomly throwing out names lol..
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Wagner greater than Cobb (deGrom says AROD)
Honus or Billy?
Yankee Clipper
Interesting historical note on Pete Rose’s “Charlie Hustle” alias:
The nickname was given to him during a ST game by Mickey Mantle. Mantle hit a HR that wasn’t even close to being caught and a very young Pete Rose, despite the impossibility of making the catch, still sprinted full speed and climbed the fence as if it was going to be a close play. Mantle said something like, “Hey, look at Charlie Hustle there” and the name stuck.
dpsmith22
It’s been proven that the #2 spot is the most important. Proven.
Texas Outlaw
@wagner yes he was. Michael Young was lacing 200 hits a season and had pop. Rangers screwed with him way to much.
Texas Outlaw
Brian Downing hit leadoff.
7Line
4256 period.
Skeptical
The difference in the number of at-bats for leadoff compared to cleanup (4th) is less than one-third of an at-bat per game.
A player’s place in the order should be determined by where they can do the most benefit for the team which isn’t always defined by the number of at-bats they receive.
Flyby
i agree Skeptical ….
@wagner
now in the unlikely completely impossible scenario that a team puts together lineup of big hitters that are used to being the run producers for example say a team were to put together the likes a Juan Soto, Manny Machado Xander Bogarts and Fernando Tatis Jr on one team (i know completely impossible) …. does that mean someone loses their self identity and now needs to demand a trade or quit baseball because they cant bat in their proper place? Does the team need to release and eat the salary on one of them so that their lineup could be better? Or does the team and batter adapt to the change. That also doesnt include the improbable chance a team uses a different handed pitcher or gasp there is an injury or suspension.
In the end the team puts players in best position for the team and yes it was obvious the yankees put judge in the top spot to get him more at bats, but regardless of the record how many games was he the offense. You want him to get at bats and he could fit anywhere in the top half of that lineup because he hits for average, has power, and has a bit of speed (almost like ricky henderson the leadoff hr king but with more power and less speed). Also if Judge was not leading off who do you put there? Rizzo, Torres, Donaldson, Hicks?? maybe throw IKF up there as your leadoff. That 642 OPS will play great at leadoff.
Wagner>Cobb
The Flying Dutchman
rememberthecoop
Not without cheating DeGrom.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
A .358 batting average season, a 10 WAR season, a 40-40 season, and 2 1.000 OPS seasons before he went to Texas and allegedly started cheating… how does Ortiz get worshipped in the hall of fame when this guy doesn’t?
Corradoj30
Ok, several problems with your post. First of all, allegedly? You do realize A-Rod admitted to taking steroids, right? Secondly, you think A-Rod only started taking steroids when he got to Texas? He was taking them his whole career going back to high school. His entire career was a sham, and he knows it.
User 2079935927
A-Fraud originally denied taking steroids to Ms.Couric.
♪
We don’t know when A-Rod started using PED’s, but why would he start using them after the 10 WAR seasons? Why mess with what was working so well? There’s no reason to believe he started using after securing the huge contract with Texas. To secure a big contract, wouldn’t PED use come prior to free agency?
bhambrave
There were reports that A-Rod was using PEDS before he was even promoted to the big leagues.
Hammerin' Hank
Agreed. ARod is one of the top five players of all time. Almost everybody was using steroids during the era he played in. Ortiz gets a pass because of his personality and popularity. He had nowhere near as good a career as Alex. One was a shortstop, the other was a DH. They’re not even close in value.
Meanwhile, the steroid freak JJ Watt is retiring from football and everyone is celebrating his great roid-fueled career. Yet for some reason baseball players are held to a higher standard.
redsoxu571
DeGrom, please don’t spread misinformation. ARod is an admitted PED user who has stuff crop up even after testing began, and we also have zero idea when he started to use steroids. I would never ever presume that he was using early, but just look at the statistics at the time for high school steroid use and know that the future known PED user may easily have achieved his ultra-rarified high school baseball performance with help. It’s equally wrong to presume that he did or didn’t, and because we don’t know that he did we don’t punish him in any way for it.
As for Ortiz, the only thing on him is being leaked as a positive for something in testing that did not follow usual standards when being used for drug policy enforcement, tested more than one thing, and is understood to have included false positives.
Every person who tries to equate Ortiz to a Rodriguez or a Bonds is exposed as someone with either an agenda or a heap of ignorance. Ortiz is not remotely “proven innocent”, but the case against him is as weak as it could get outside of having actually nothing. And so, anyone with a shred of honor and fairness leaves him be, waiting to see whether we ever get better evidence.
Dustyslambchops23
Some of you guys think steroids are a magic potion that make you good at baseball. I despise Arod but with or without steroids he was/is a top 5 player in the last 20 years.
Salvi
What does Ortiz have to do with it? Did he get caught cheating? No. Was Ortiz ever suspended? No.
A reporter published a ‘story’ that he tested positive for steroids in a test that was suppose to be confidential. Do we know what drug(s) he failed with? No, it was confidential. Do we know what drugs they were testing for? No, it was confidential. Do we have a confirmation that he tested positive from any official? No, it was confidential.
For all we know the story couldve been completely made up. The list is basically every power hitter from the era. And missing many players who a few years later were known to have used (ie: many pitchers)
Everything else on Ortiz is just speculation from Red Sox haters.
StlSwifty
Nobody ever gave a crap about all the guys that took steroids and still sucked at baseball. Everyone was on them, some guys were just better than others.
westcoastmetsfan
Steroids do not make a player a better hitter average wise, but they do make them stronger so balls that normally would have landed on the warning track landed in the seats instead. How many? Nobody can say for sure. But the biggest affect that steroids have is the increased recovery rate. How many additional games did A-Roid and Bonds among other play that they would not have been able to had they not been on the juice.
TurkeyClubSamich
StlSwifty – Right? Where are all the haters for Bobby Estalella and FP Santangelo? Lots of bums indicted in the Mitchell Report.
VonPurpleHayes
Everyone was not on steroids. Just like every team did not cheat on the same level that the Astros did. Revisionist statements like “everyone did it” are completely incorrect. Sure lots of people did steroids, but a higher % of plsyers did not.
cecildawg
SNOO48? ARod admitted to using ped’s in texas because of having
to live up to the pressures of his huge contract. He has been pigeon
holed as a mental sow bug. Or sumtin.
Salvi
VonHayes: I remember the 1980s steroids were everywhere. People would do them in the back end of the gym, needles would be in the trash bin. So, I guess we ban the players from then too. Bye bye George Brett, Mike Schmidt, Rickey Henderson. Hall of Fame will miss you. We have to kick you out because suspicion is the law of the day.
Bad take Von, youre usually better than this.
Troutahni
Despite what you hear from the media and other ball players, A-Rod was very friendly to me when I met him.
My brother – in-law was a one of the vice presidents for the Sony TV division, so he would give us tickets to go to different studio shows in their lot, like “The Goldbergs.” I took a day off from work to go to a show that had no studio audience, which happened to be “Shark Tank”. They tape 4 episodes a day. I got the chance to meet the whole crew, including Richard Branson.
I saw a sign for VIP Parking that was assigned to Alex Rodriguez.
Lo and behold a gold cart drives up with him and his crew. I yell out for A-Rod and he acknowledged me. I talked to him a couple of times that day. He was amazing. Very Friendly, cordial, you name it!
Maybe that was J-Lo’s influence?
On the opposite side of the spectrum, Reggie Jackson was a dick and so was David Justice. He cussed out my mother out and called her a bigot. She was a huge Braves fan, until that moment.
Frankie Viola another suoer friendly ball player. The same with Trout, CJ Crohn, Bobby Kielty and the Dirtbag, Jared Weaver.
Troutahni
What about exit velocity on line drives? The juice had to help. Baseball looked the other way and cashed their checks, why allow front office types and owners into the Hall of Fame, but you’re only going to make a certain few ball players to languish in obscurity, despite the fact that they excelled way beyond their peers. Who really knew or cares who was in the juice? it’s all supposition based on hearsay. It’s not like they were measuring heads with calipers and checking for back acne.
Troutahni
VonPurpleHayes, where did you get your numbers from? Did you take urine samples for MLB during the steroid era.
You have no idea who was on them or who wasn’t.
Nobody knows the real truth and we never will.
Salvi
Troutahni: “Despite what you hear from the media and other ball players”
You met ARod 1 day,and he was pleasant. Okay, point taken. Every year, ballplayers spend months with him. Sorry, but I’ll take their opinions of yours.
♪
Wagner on the same PED regimen as A-Rod>>>A-Rod
stansfield123
At baseball, sure. But at composing an exhilarating piece of music you could listen to while flying helicopters into battle? Please.
Also, even at baseball: if you brought Wagner back to life and gave him a bat in the post season … he’d do about the same as A-Rod.
dasit
my grandfather saw wagner hit for the ring cycle
mrmackey
138 fWAR >>> 113.
And Wagner did it without roids.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
@mackey WAR is overrated, as it often gives guys a boost for hitting well when others didn’t, even if this is just a lack of talent. Look how Cobb led the league with 9 homeruns. That was a bad offensive era. Also, this may impact both Cobb and Wagner equally, but historians have observed steals were loosely defined at the time and caught stealing data aren’t complete. They would sometimes could advancing on a wild pitch/passed ball as a steal, taking an extra base, tagging up, and other stuff. Who knows if Wagner got caught 100 times some seasons?
mrmackey
It was the Deadball era, the lack of home runs had nothing to do with lack of talent. If A-Rod had been born back then he would have also been hitting almost no home runs. Wagner hit a ton of doubles and triples and led the league in slugging 6 times – 2 more than A-Rod.
Chicken In Philly?
“ WAR is overrated, as it often gives guys a boost for hitting well when others didn’t, even if this is just a lack of talent.”
That just makes it an equalizer. You’re arguing against your own point, and I read this from you all the time and just shake my head. Last year was one of the worst hitting years on record, so shouldn’t Judge’s WAR have been something closer to 15? No, of course not, because that’s just not how it works. WAR calculates how efficient a player is hitting, fielding, pitching (if applicable), baserunning, and measuring it against their plate appearances, while also taking into account the value of the position they play.
Please take this broken record off your turntable, respectfully.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
No. Convince me that Semien > Juan Soto. WAR is a bad stat. Fielding WAR is very hard to measure, and offensive WAR compares the guy to the rest of the league. If guys can’t hit, it isn’t always due to the league changing rules. Babe Ruth and Hack Wilson were hitting tons of homeruns while others didn’t do anything. Pitchers didn’t strikeout many either, and that can’t be entirely due to rules. Throwing 100 will get strikeouts. Similarly, having more power leads to more homeruns. It’s not like they were using coconuts and are now using Tenis balls. WAR has its use for sure, and maybe I overdo it to play devil’s advocate, but fielding percentages, range, and the eye test don’t align well with dWAR. Guys were just awful when Cobb was around. Look into how WAR is wins above a minor league replacement on average. Guys back then may be single A backups these days, so my point Arod is better stands. Also, 2 WAR = 0 WAA. I would say I’m wins above average are better than WAR. Sure, Wagner exceeded Arod’s, but perhaps surrounded by high school level talent. My point with steals was just that there could be lots of variance, and Wagner’s baserunning WAR could be much worse if we are being fair.
mrmackey
Soto had a higher fWAR season at 7.0 than Semien ever did, so why would you need to be convinced?
Semien gets high scores in part because he can play a premium position that Soto can’t, and he plays it very well.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
bWAR
CaptainJudge99
Let’s face it the Twinkies are probably the only team in MLB that will pass his physical. The Mets might have actually done something right for the lst time, by moving on from this taint.
jjd002
Says the fan of a team that just signed Aaron Judge to an equally dumb contract.
Yankee Clipper
Comparing Judge to Correa isn’t very judicious if one is being completely honest.
CaptainJudge99
@jjdoo2- Wow, somebody sounds so salty! You sure kid?
jjd002
Not salty at all. Just don’t like long term contracts and think they are dumb. That contract will be bad.
aintitkuonews
It just occurred to me that with all the Judge puns last year nobody was referring to power hitting as “judicious.”
CaptainJudge99
@jjdoo2- I don’t believe in those long term contracts either, especially over 7 years, so we agree.
jjd002
That is even too high for me. How many 6+ contracts have worked out for the team? Can probably count them on one hand and most were because they signed them when they were young. I’m glad my favorite team passes on them. Been burned by one over the years and looks like they learned their lesson.
kingken67
I find it hard to believe the Twins will ignore whatever issue is there. If relatively deep pocketed teams like SF and the Mets have balked because they can’t get these contracts insured I can’t see the Twins deciding to go ahead with a deal and not being able to get some sort of insurance on it. They don’t strike me as being that stupid or that desperate.
CaptainJudge99
@kingken67- the Twinkies have ignored this injury when they signed him last season, so why would it matter now?
twins33
We don’t know that that is true. He may have done something to hurt his leg in September after that slide he had during a game. He was never evaluated because he said he was fine and he looked fine in their remaining games. After the Giants walked away, it was reported that the Twins wanted the new medical records that the Giants had issue with and they didn’t receive them. Then the Mets swooped in. So they are acting like they did not know about whatever issue it is.
And a maximum three years vs ten or more years is way different when you are evaluating health/future health. The Twins 10 year offer was still pending a physical like all deals are, so they could still balk at it just as the other two teams did.
kingken67
Because there’s far less chance of it becoming an issue over a 3 year contract that he was likely to opt out of after 1 year than there is over a 10-12 year contract. They likely could get that contract last year insured because it was for a shorter term. No one is getting a 10-12 year contract for him insured at this point, not without clauses nullifying portions of it if this injury flairs up again.
FoxSox
Ignoring an old injury in a three year contract is definitely different than ignoring it in a 10+ year contract
stymeedone
@ Captain J
A year has gone by since that physical. Its likely something has changed during the past year.
westcoastmetsfan
I have read that the Twins signed him to a short deal and did not do as an extensive a medical exam as SF & NY did for 12- and 13-year deals. Additionally, it would seem he is healthy now, it’s how well will the ankle/leg hold up at the back end of those extended contract. So yes, it should matter to the twinkies at this point in time when it didn’t last year.
Jaysfansince92
Because at that point the incident he had after sliding where he was writhing in pian had not yet occurred and they were only giving him a short team deal last time around. It’s alot easier to project him staying healthy over 1-3 years as opposed to 10.
gfan
Maybe you can call him Carlos Chinrest now.
kahnkobra
they haven’t moved on
The Human Toilet
oh my goodness!
Just get the deal done already so the Trade market can get going!!!
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Yes, but what does a shortstop have to do with the left field market?
Jung Like My Daddy
Well in the Padres case, signing Bogaerts pushed Tatis Jr to the OF.
Clepto_
Toilet: just saying….Questionable name choice. Hope its not a fetish or your state of self respect.
Clepto_
However, if its a descriptor of Scott Borass, then its brilliant.
VonPurpleHayes
This is hilarious.
This one belongs to the Reds
Actually it is ridiculous.
Lloyd Emerson
Ridiculously hilarious?
Hilariously ridiculous?
Clepto_
You are surprised?
Lets see: start with a human parasite in Boras, add a little unregulated spending, and a twist of question FO decisions, and you get this giant turd pie.
These people deserve each other.
DogDays2
Boras is a human parasite…. Because he’s good at his job.
Clepto_
Boras and his ego only exists because baseball is operating under an antiquated economic model. While he may be good at his “job”, and, Ill add that he is savy, at the end of the day, he contributes negative value to the total popularity and viability of the Nation’s Pastime.
MuleorAstroMule
How does he contribute negative value?
rondon
He’s coming off like a desperate used car salesman that just can’t close a deal.
stymeedone
@dogdays
As long as you agree that Boras is a human parasite, the reason doesn’t matter.
MuleorAstroMule
Yeah how dare he do the best for his clients. Those poor billionaire owners, how will they ever recover?
Anyway, if you’re turned off baseball because of the actions of one agent in regards to contract negotiations I’ll strongly suggest that maybe baseball really isn’t the sport for you.
Clepto_
Mule: you dont get it. You cant see beyond what is right innfront of you.
MuleorAstroMule
Well let’s see. We have a man who is good at his job. And then we have fans who apparently don’t think players should have an effective advocate. So no, I don’t get it. Explain it.
Samuel
Von;
This may well be no more than Cohen allowing Boras to leave and save face.
And again – let’s hear no more of the crap that Cohen made a public statement about acquiring Correa so the Mets must honor that contract.
Another thing – when healthy Correa is the best SS in MLB. But he’s never healthy all year. It makes no sense that teams ignored him in 2021-22, and are now doing it again in 2022-23. I’d guess that word was out to a lot of FO people about his leg / ankle. It may be illegal with HIPPA, but the fact is that employees gossip throughout America. Don’t see any reason why MLB would be different.
jjd002
Don’t blame either side. It is contract negotiations. Anyone that is involved in contracts, in anything, know they sometimes get like this. Can’t blame Correa, being that hasn’t been an issue since he was in the minors. Can’t blame the Mets (or Giants) because it could potentially become an issue the older he gets.
slowcurve
Yeah, if you’ve ever bought or sold a house with foundation issues, you know how this can go on forever.
jjd002
Exactly. I’m in commercial construction. We have had $10,000 jobs fall through due to terms and conditions. Neither side is wrong and neither side is right. Both sides need to protect their interests.
MM.MM
Hello, Sugarland Skeeters!!!
southern lion
Sugarland Space Cowboys, now.
Jung Like My Daddy
Nothing beats the Rocket City Trash Pandas
Joe says...
Some people call them the Space Cowboys. Some call them the Gangsters of Love.
southern lion
That’s a lot to put on a jersey…. 🙂
Flanster
I call them…..Maurice. Because I speak of the Pompitous of love
Clepto_
Ok you Jokers
Player to be named in the future 2
I’m a midnight toker
10centBeerNight
Well appears Heyman report had substance. Might be best for NYM to move on and perhaps add a significant bat via trade. I think every fan would want Correa on their team but a long term deal without ironclad clauses for pre existing conditions is bad business
Cleon Jones
After Twins sign him at a discount Mets will trade for him.
CJML
The Mets have one of their best prospects at 3rd (Baty) and Eduardo Escobar. This signing never needed to happen. Not to mention they are already 140 million over the luxury tax.
10centBeerNight
Agree with this. Baty is not rated highly by accident. As we speak NYM are essentially a pick em with PHI and ATL and the difference is likely coming down to key injuries between those teams. They need a power bat in lineup to protect Alonzo and that can be in the DH spot and acquired via trade. Senga is the wildcard to me. If this guy is an ace, NYM can be a tremendous team
VonPurpleHayes
I agree with your take. The Mets have a lot of risk in that rotation, especially with their 2 aces being ticking time bombs (the age decline happens fast), but few rotations have more upside than the Mets. If Senga and the old guys workout, that’s the best rotation in the game. And while they lack significant power, their offense carried them at stretches. Adding Correa doesn’t really push the Mets over for me. They’re already there. Correa at 3rd just seems like a waste.
Samuel
Von;
Cohen’s comments about he was only signing FA’s until his farm system would be moving players to the majors was BS. He has a 3B in Baty, and 2 guys that can play it in Ronny Mauricio – a SS that will not move Lindor out as he’s on a 10 year or so contract; and possibly Mark Vientos -a 1B/3B – who was scheduled to be up this year, but he sure isn’t moving Alonso off 1B….and if he can’t play 3B he might be the “bat” at DH that Cohen was looking for with Correa.
The point being that if he needed a bat for the 2023 season, he didn’t need to give a player a 12 year deal. The fact is that this guy has no problem giving players record contracts and paying penalties of 90% tax in addition. If he wants a star player he’ll buy him. He’s sure as heck isn’t going to wait 4-5 years for a youngster to get through his farm system. And the Mets will be drafting in the 20’s each year with the money he’s spending. So in addition to the tax penalties MLB is doing to penalize him by making him draft 10 positions lower? Is this some sort of joke? Along with the Padres owner Cohen is making mockery of MLB efforts to level the playing field for all teams…..and now other large market owners are jumping in and following them.
westcoastmetsfan
The mockery is the small market teams that get substantial funding through revenue share and refuse to use it to reinvest in their payroll instead of lining their pockets with it.
Samuel
westcoastmetsfan;
That’s just a large market red herring argument.
Where does it say in the revenue sharing that it has to be used in payroll?
The large market teams will just outbid the small market teams do for quality players, so the the small market teams would have to overpay so-so players that will guarantee they’re never a contending team.
What the smart small market teams do is invest the money in computers; computer software (and the people to write it); analytic people, quality coaches that can use the output; video equipment; hitting and pitching machines; etc. Then when they sign and develop players they can get rejected players that are cheap and make them productive. This is how teams such as the Brewers, Rays, Guardians, and now Orioles do it.
You guys throw the money at the Hick’s and Escobar’s and Naquin’s and McCann’s and Canó’s and Rodríguez’s and other guys each year that the fans get mad at because they suck. Sure you want the small market teams to overpay for crap. Sorry, the smart ones invest in hardware, software, equipment and the people skilled to use them to draft, acquire, and develop talent. Then you guys try to buy them……but last year Cohen had to hire Eppler because dozens of quality MLB FO people that Cohen wanted to interview blew him off.
Avory
Thank you, Samuel, for the excellent rejoinder to those who insist on parroting the big market “good,’ small market “bad” nonsense. Anyone who thinks Pittsburgh and Cleveland pocket a greater % of their revenues (much less in absolute terms) has fallen for the big lie big markets and big time player agents are so eager to spread. The idea that markets like Cincinnati get better signing the Mike Moustakases of the world is hilarious.
BucksPackersBrewersWow!
What will last longer -Correa signing with a team or the GOP picking a speaker?
southern lion
McCarthy has better range and a stronger arm….
🙂
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I usually like what the GOP is doing and have most of my life, yet this is becoming more of a circus than the Correa show. I mean it’s like the meme from Person of Interest with the guys pointing guns at each other. They need to man up and pick someone already. Bauer can be the “whip” if needed.
southern lion
Bauer would enjoy that too much. 🙂
CarverAndrews
If you have liked what the GOP has been doing all along until JUST NOW with the McCarthy negotiations, then you must be buried in Fangraphs all day long and never look up to see what is going on in the world. Is Ted Cruz on speed dial? ; )
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Oh God! Not the values stuff here. This was meant to be a joke. Just one thing: having values trumps hating others’ values.
deGromTexasRanger
but can’t you hate something valuable.
CarverAndrews
DTR – you are the one that brought it up…I just reacted to your statement with some amazement. And I won’t extend this out, as this is not the venue for it.
CarverAndrews
Please explain what you mean by that, DTR…thanks.
deGromTexasRanger
You are SMRT
DogDays2
Both sides have their issues.
In general, being all on-board entirely with either party now is a lack of objectivity and tolerance.
AllinTX
Correa to the Rangers to play LF or Seager to LF or 1B.
No more than 8 year $200M deal with clauses and incentives.
CarverAndrews
@DTR – Wow…just wow.
bhambrave
Please no politics.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I did and am willing to discuss this separately. Message me on Line app if you want. Not here.
Hammerin' Hank
Politics are rigged and scripted just like everything else on the news. It’s just a bunch of distractions to keep people from paying attention to the oligarchs who are running the show.
This one belongs to the Reds
80% of the country are dead in the middle but it’s the 10% on each far right or far left fringe that get all the attention and website clicks.
It’s really the dark corporate money that determines the course of things anyway, not the people’s wishes who vote.
meckert
Trumps?
Yankee Clipper
Hammerin’ Hank: That is exactly right. The more divided the people are, the less we are paying attention to what they’re doing, or holding them accountable for what they’ve done.
This one belongs to the Reds
Clipper: You nailed it. I have been saying pretty much the same for a few years now.
What should irk every American is that their taxpayer money has paid for this week long circus.
Now let’s talk baseball. Oh yeah, not much to talk about right now for a Reds fan.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
@Allin I tried to type in Kip Fa yehfkrhdjg g jdhdiej g’s name and got auto-reported. It’s his absurd name. Anyways, the Ranhers signed a guy with the 2nd lowest career ERA of the dead ball ERA with 2.52 vs 2.48 for Kershaw (Koufax’s ERA was way lower after 1961 but career ERA was way higher). They also got Eovaldi, Heaney, and Odorizzi. There is a budget and a luxury tax threshold. Fans seem to have this idea that MLB Teams are different from usual companies and their owners, being richer than stock holders, shouldn’t be allowed to make money. There are draft implications and wealth is limited. They have the 6th ranked farm system. I would much much rather trade away guys and greatly overpay for Reynolds than see them keep blowing cash blindly and inefficiently. Also, even if you don’t care about the owners’ money, think they can spend this towards Nola next year or someone like him. The Rangers can’t develop due to the above mentioned guy Kip F hfjfj a gjejnrngjg gnnfnf g, who is awful at developing. Why not use some of those guys?
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Impersonator alert! I saw your profile picture was the same one I remember from the Evoldi thread. You either like the Astros or the Mets. Either way, you are failing miserably at impersonating me.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
This fool is impersonating me by adding a s at the end. Ignore his comments. They will confuse you if trying to follow the thread.
deGromTexasRanger
This fool is impersonating me by adding a s at the end. Ignore his comments. They will confuse you if trying to follow the thread
Bobcastelliniscat
You are not going to see a Reds discussion on here or
Elsewhere for some time. The Fact that the Reds lost 100
games in 2022 and their only “significant” acquisition this off season, has been Will Meyers. It should tell you the Reds are not serious about winning. The Reds will probably lose 100 games a few times this decade.
User 2079935927
He can’t hit the slider.
O'sSayCanYouSee
At this point, it’s seems he can’t hit a BP fastball.
This one belongs to the Reds
I doubt either one will end anytime soon.
Deadguy
Oh you frustrated now…. wait till you sign him for 12 years!
AtomsAnts
Minnesota is a good place for Correa. They know about his limitations. Plus that overachieving trashcan banger deserves to play in relative obscurity.
Little Stevie Janowsky
Exactly. I didn’t hear a single thing about him last year. Let’s keep him hidden in Minnesota for the rest of his career.
Avory
As a Cleveland fan, I hope he goes to Twin Cities and is an anvil around their necks for the next decade.
ohyeadam
8/200
rememberthecoop
What a mess! I don’t blame the Mets – it’s as if Boras is ignoring the obvious.. He needs to be willing to sacrifice something- years, dollars, add language…whatever.
jjd002
To be fair, it hasn’t been an issue at all. Why should he have to sacrifice? Just playing devils advocate. I can see the argument on both sides.
southern lion
The Devil has enough advocates…
CarverAndrews
Where is the sacrifice that he is making? The team that would be paying him is doing their due diligence on a $300M plus commitment for over a decade. Projecting year to year with respect to downside risk is entirely different than that.
If he is unwilling to lock in a similar upside (which is enormous) while building in some form of limitation on the exposure for a pre-existing, very specific medical risk, then he is the one at fault.
VonPurpleHayes
If a house has a giant crack in the roof, even if it never had a leak, people are going to be hesitant to buy the house.
JoeBrady
It’s fairly common to ask the owners to either fix a pre-existing condition, or to lower your offer and do the work yourself. We had polarity issues on some outlets, weeping holes needed to be drilled into the backyard wall, and 1-2 other minor issues.
These were minor issues, which the owner’s brother did himself, but if this was a crack in the roof or foundation, then we need to re-negotiate the deal.
jjd002
And if the roof has been repaired without issues ever again, why should it be sold at a discount? Should any pitcher that had Tommy John in high school be forced to make a sacrifice almost 10 years later?
Bottom line is, we don’t know what sort of concessions are being requested by New York. This is likely legal jargon holding it up and when talking about this much money both sides want to make sure no loop holes exist.
VonPurpleHayes
In the case of this analogy, there was a Correa incident last year with the Twins. I don’t think the concern is unfounded, despite the talent that Correa has..
Luke1358
One, there is history in baseball of similar issues leading to significant problems later in careers and not just with the leg. Other players have developed significant back issues related to it. Second, it’s 300 million dollars if he plays three years then has sharp decline because of it you really limit a teams ability to contend when tied to an awful contract like that. You have to make concessions in the language like if production drops below a certain level guaranteed money drops in accordance or something similar.
Yankee Clipper
Agreed Coop. The problem is that they’re used to sticking to their guns and being rewarded for it because some team/owner caves in. I’m all for players making the most they can, but this guy should probably take a hint.
– Now watch MN sign him for 12 @ $350MM……
twins33
The Twins didn’t want to up their offer from 10/285 after the Giants balked. Don’t see that happening.
Yankee Clipper
I hope not…for your/their sake. They should stick to an offer framed according to their last deal with him.
Cleon Jones
Twins would be crazy not to adjust their offer downward….business is business.
NicoHoerndawg
Boras will use all his stubbornness to not give in on any of this because that is the only card he can play… always has, always will. If he actually gives in this sets a little more of a precedent in teams being able to walk back their offer after the medicals. And it would probably be the first time Boras does not win a negation.
It really won’t surprise me if this drags into February and at some point a team like the Yankees or Dodgers just decide to make him a crazy short term offer like 2y/$95m with a team option for $35m on a third year. If he stays healthy through a contract like that, he’ll be set up just fine to accept another similar contract afterwards for the next team who wants to take the risk.
matthew07
This is almost as funny as Congress deciding who will be the Speaker.
deGromTexasRanger
I would be the trade rumors speaker
Wagner>Cobb
You’re the A-Rod Apologists speaker
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Pay closer attention. 1) I am not an Arod apologist. I admire top 5 of all time talent. Pitcher cheat all the time. 2) This is some miserable Mets or Astros fan who has been offended ever since deGrom signed with Texas. He has been around since the Eovalid thread and is impersonating my name by adding a s at the end.
Wagner>Cobb
It was meant as a joke. Not a personal criticism or judgement.
deGromTexasRanger
You are a joke this is insane
Wagner>Cobb
That was rude.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
What I was emphasizing was that this guy is a scam. Don’t confuse him with me. He is too insecure to keep his own identity. He is trying to start fights with me. by saying inflammatory stuff.
cecildawg
s or not shutup.
Yankee Clipper
Or anything at all….. Congress acting in the best interest of the American people is like MLB saying that it’s primary goal is to save fans money.
I think the former ended in the 19th century.
Hammerin' Hank
Yeah, they’re only acting in the best interests of their super-rich overlords.
San Farhancisco
Come on Giants get in there!
seamaholic 2
Of all the teams who might sign him, the Giants are about the least likely. They aren’t gonna be more lenient than the Mets on the injury clauses.
I’m thinking Twins or another mid-market team that is willing to sign a long deal with a short-term opt out so he can prove himself again. Mariners? Don’t know if they have the money.
Cleon Jones
Pirates.
Hammerin' Hank
Pirates vs Reds bidding war!
bob9988 2
M’s have the money, need and roster spot. But they seem intent on being cheap this offseason. No one has quite figured out why.
CowboyRobot
Just Scott Boras being Scott Boras.
Blank Frank
Twins, one year, $35 Million
Cleon Jones
Referring to Minnesota or LG Twins Korea?
Blank Frank
Yes.
Dogs
Rangers: One Year without a No-Trade Clause $35,000,001
Texas, warm & Sunny
Minnesota, cold & Dreary.
Next Bidder Up, Correa Loves You Even Better Than The Last Bidder.
What A Joke
vaderzim
The plot thickening continues…
This one belongs to the Reds
As is the manure deepening…
bob9988 2
How much thicker can it get? We’re passing peanut butter here!
DynamiteAdams
Idk why he doesn’t include clauses in the contract to specifically address the Mets or Giants concerns unless he also thinks the concerns are valid. In that case he should sign with the Twins or another team that won’t inquire on his medicals.
seamaholic 2
Oh he knows they’re valid. He just doesn’t want to be left high and dry at age 33 or something. He wants that guarantee. Honestly, though, if the Mets won’t do it, I don’t know who will.
This one belongs to the Reds
Any team who wouldn’t inquire on his or any players medicals are more foolish than the money the large markets are throwing around.
miggywrld
Time for the Braves to swoop in and sign him 6yr/80million.
seamaholic 2
If he’ll sign that, don’t you think he’d be a Giant or Met by now?
twins33
I’m assuming it was a joke about the Braves getting a lot of guys signed cheaply but as far as what you said specifically, I agree. If he was willing to take a relatively cheap deal, why wouldn’t 20 other teams be in the mix?
Then again, I have no idea how the Twins got him for 3/105 with opt outs. How did 20 other teams not want to do that deal? Still baffles me.
bitterpadresfan
Now Preller is going to sign him to a 15 year, 400 million dollar contract and then try to convince everyone that he didn’t overpay.
Eatdust666
Yeah, so he can keep up his shortstop collection. /j
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Someone with authority needs to get involved here and have some arbitration
SMH
southern lion
Like who, Manfred? :):):)
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
It’s his job!!!
southern lion
I know, but that doesn’t mean he’s going to do it. He’s the worst league commissioner of all the major USA team sports IMO. Just look at the ridiculous nationwide TV blackout policy for instance. What a joke that is!
JoeBrady
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
It’s his job!!!
======================
I don’t think negotiating contracts between owners and players is in his resume. This is like every other negotiation. They either agree or Correa starts up with team #3, and the NYMs find another way to spend $315M.
For Love of the Game
No, it is up to a willing buyer and willing seller to decide the terms of a deal. No one else has a say – we don’t get to decide how much a rich man should be paid for work (Correa) or how much an even richer man (Cohen or _____) should “have to” pay him should he even want to employ him.
prov356
Actually Manfred needs to keep out of it. Let Boras do his job for his client. Teams have plenty of people looking at the situation and can assess risk/reward on their own.
Hammerin' Hank
Bowie Kuhn would do whatever is in “the best interests of baseball ” lol!
Yankee Clipper
What’s interesting is the juxtaposition between Correa’s negotiation to get a single contract signed and Bauer’s time back on LAD’s roster after reinstatement. It’s inverted if you think about it….
sfgiantkev1
Making Farhan look better and better by the day. Way to go Farhan !!! I don’t think he’s that good of a VP of Operations but he did his job in this situation.
jjd002
He still looks bad in this situation.
Hammerin' Hank
No he doesn’t. He looks like someone who did his job with due diligence.
jjd002
The due diligence, yes. Still could have been handled exponentially better by San Fran. If it was handled better he could still be negotiating the terms with them instead of New York.
angt222
Mets can win with or without him. Rather them let him go than have to get stuck in a high AAV contract if he can’t hypothetically produce past age 34 due to potential injuries. I’d expect Twins to try their hand at resigning him if Mets talks fall through.
all in the suit that you wear
The Mets can sign Manny Machado for 3B next year.
Yankee Clipper
Cut bait. Correa believes he’s got leverage he doesn’t have. Give him your offer of five years or whatever, and when he says no, walk away. Too much drama.
And, if MN does take a long-term risk on Correa, it reflects the amount of money these teams actually do have….when they want to. Because money is a binary choice in this business. They either have it or they don’t. They can’t not have it, but then have all of it, plus inherent the risk, when it’s convenient.
Very interesting to see the outcome; but much like the movie, the Irishman, let’s get going already.
This one belongs to the Reds
If Minnesota takes a risk, it will cripple their franchise if it goes south. It has happened to other small markets on big contracts. They can’t afford one miss on those, it kills them.
Yankee Clipper
Well, I agree and that’s my point, Reds. How can they? I see several OPs positing long-term deal but with a lot of opt-outs. That’s not going to help MN at all. In fact, that’s the worst possible outcome for MN.
stymeedone
Unless it’s a team opt out.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Or attainable vesting options.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I get this feeling fans would prefer 5 years 300 million to 10 years 305 million because it’s cheaper. You have to at least consider AAV.
joefleury
I bet the Twins would front load the average annual value and then lessen the back end of the agreement and even do some deferred payments beyond the end of his career to avoid creating a long term albatross of a contract that sinks the franchise, but also getting their high value target in the short term when he is most likely to have his best production.
This gets the guaranteed money for Correa and lessens the long term risk that the Twins typically shy away from.
This one belongs to the Reds
Honestly, I would do that with all these long term deals since you know they will produce less on the back end, plus it won’t cripple your payroll when they do.
Armaments216
For a small-to-mid-market team trying to stay competitive, it makes sense to commit as little as possible in the out years. For high payroll teams it’s more about the AAV, and deferring as much as possible lowers the present value of the total dollar commitment.
Paul Griggs
That sounds reasonable but is Correa worth that kind of money? I like him, he’s a good teammate, offers leadership, is a winner, plays good defense and is a solid offensive player. I’d say he’d be a consistent .280/20-25/80-90 RBIs with borderline Gold Glove defense. His defense has deteriorated in recent years though. I think his asking price should be $20-$25 million per year.
joefleury
All of the salaries handed out this off-season are way too much. I think those who avoid mega deals will be the most competitive teams in a few years. It seems most of these types of deals will sink a franchise.
I do not think $30-45 million per season is going to be worth it for Correa but for a couple years with all the building blocks the Twins have around it, this could help them compete against the large market teams until their current upcoming core can not be kept. The young talent on the Twins has a few players capable of being better than Correa.
It’s an overpay but I think the twins FO succumb to the pressure of the fan base.
I also think MLB is too focused on winning the off-season rather than winning. What is happening now is crazy stupid.
brewsingblue82
Aside from any feelings about Correa’s pst with the Astros and looking at it as objectively as possible, my takeaway from this is that the Mets are honestly on the bad side of these negotiations.
People can say what they want about Boras, but he’s been doing his job. His job isn’t to give people discounts, or to do anything that favors the teams. His job is to be of service to his client and get them what they feel the best deal is for them, whether it be financially, to set them up for a better deal in the future, or get them where they want to be located geographically.
But on the Mets side, it feels like they saw it fall apart with the Giants, even though it was public that it was because of something in the physical, but jumped in with a quick offer they felt would be accepted to try to take other teams out of the hunt, while mainly wanting to try to change the deal post agreement. The giants deal falls apart because of a physical and they swoop in, but all of a sudden have the same issue with the physical? I feel like they had to of known what the issue was beforehand to know why it was that the Giants deal fell through. Just seems to me they wanted to sign him, so they figured they’d quick offer a mega deal to stop negotiations with other teams from happening and figured they could just twist it to a different form of deal after. There’s nothing wrong with them wanting to take precautions in the deal, but they could’ve done that to begin with. I’m not saying they’re solely to blame for the deal taking so long and starting to fall apart, just that it’s still just as much their fault.
“Oh, your physical with the giants fell through? Well we won’t match their deal, but we’ll give you this. Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, now the physical worries us, will you take less? Restructure the deal? We really want to get this done. Just on our terms. Even though we should’ve taken more due diligence.”
JoeBrady
Both sides are protecting their own interests, which is exactly how this should work. There is no right or wrong. I’m amazed at the number of people that want to blame one side or the other.
One side thinks the number should be ‘x’ and the other side thinks it should be ‘y’. It’s just like looking for a job.
Paul Griggs
My reason for bashing Boras is that his players get so much money that teams can’t afford other players and one player can’t make a team a contender. Also, teams playing these high salaries drive ticket sales up. I used to regularly go to Yankee, Red Sox and Mets games. In 2018 I went to Minnesota and got great seats for half the price of terrible seats in those other stadiums. Concessions were equally pricy at all of the stadiums but $45 for a seat a few rows behind the Twins dugout would have cost $150-$200 at the other stadiums.
Ella B
I think your premise is spot on. The Mets saw an opening and tried to take advantage of the situation. And I agree with Joe. When you’re talking about hundreds of millions of dollars you have to take the human element out of the equation. It’s a business transaction and is being handled as such.
JackStrawb
@Ella B Except it’s not a business transaction given the hole Cohen has once again dug for the team. Without Correa they drop back into the pack of good teams with significant issues. Ancient top starters, very old lineup, likely soft spots in the lineup at 3B, catcher, and LF, not to mention the Mets got unexpectedly good performance, beyond their projections, from nearly every regular. They likely won’t be as lucky / good in 2023.
stymeedone
@brewsing
Regardless of the details, the Mets were always going to sign him to their terms, just like every other player on their team. They are exhibiting due diligence. That would be hard to do BEFORE seeing the physical.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
“Sir, the Mets aren’t buying the Heyman/mystery team schtick.”
“OK, call Bowden.”
kgcubs
Aloha folks, I was so upset how the local and national media treated the Giants for “questioning” the physical on Carlos, having to step away from the deal because Boras and client wouldn’t renegotiate. Now look, the Mets are having huge concerns as well and Boras and Correa again may not want to change the terms. Giants are vindicated. Glad Jed didn’t go after Correa and bring this drama to Wrigley. Having said that the Twins or other teams maybe smart to only offer a 3-5yr deal. Very interesting situation. Mahalo and Happy New Year!
Hammerin' Hank
People will take any chance they can get to bash Zaidi. I think it’s mainly because he’s seen as one of those GMs/VPs who relies greatly on analytics. And the old-school fans who hate analytics and advanced stats don’t like those guys and their progressive mindset taking over the sport.
Milwaukee-2208
2 major league teams are seriously concerned with this injury. One pulled out of the deal entirely and the other having major concerns is run by a lunatic who doesn’t care about spending.
If Cohen is iffy then every team should be terrified to get involved. He will not get anywhere near 300 million for 11-12 years. Damaged goods
seamaholic 2
Maybe the Mets are coming out of their delirium and thinking wait a minute, why do we need a $300m third baseman with a bum ankle anyway? They’ve got a 22 year old dude who had a 950 OPS+ in the minors last year. What the heck is wrong with just playing him? They even have a solid vet backup in Escobar if they need him, and can always make a trade if everything falls through. This has been stupid from the start.
Ma4170
yes, this … all of this
stymeedone
If Correa had a clean bill of health, he’d be signed and none of this would be happening.
JackStrawb
@seamaholic 2 It’s… interesting how few fans bother to even glance at fielding statistics. HINT: Go to baseball-reference, look up Baty’s fielding, and pro rate his errors at 3B to a full season. Then figure in the faster MLB game.
DarkSide830
Go Twins!
iBleeedBlue
MLB = WWE
Inside Out
Without Correa Mets are essentially same team as last year with more pitcher injury risk. They will be struggling to get the third wildcard.
Skebinx
What the medical reports actual say is that he suffers from a condition called “tutto corpus cavernosum recti”. In non-medical terms: he is a complete a-hole.
Ma4170
Yes! Please walk away from this ridiculous deal, Mets. Let MN have him and be happy. You’ll be thankful in a few years.
JockStrap
Who will be the lucky sucker ????
Dan P
It is interesting that Minnesota is back in when they had to have his physical information from when they signed him last season.
Of course they are likely in at a lower cost, but they were not afraid to pursue him by anything they saw
Ma4170
Whaever they’re seeing may not have showed up on the imaging tests last year
Paul Griggs
The Twins are under pressure to make some big moves. There are literally no impact Free Agents left and trades would require them giving up too much talent. They think they are a piece away from the playoffs and a few pieces from going to the World Series. I agree that they can make the playoffs but I don’t see them getting to the World Series unless the pitchers produce and the young batters led by Buxton stay healthy and produce. Correa fit in very well with the Twins in 2022 and he really solidified the infield defense and that helped their pitchers dramatically. Injuries did them in ultimately. They were done to second string AAA players at many positions at the end of the year.
Idosteroids
You can replace “twins” with about 5-10 other teams and the first three sentences will hold true.
urnuts
Twins sign him to a 8 year deal with the $28.5 million AV, front loaded $35 million first 2 years with an opp out after year 3 and 5 and incentives year 6-8.
just_thinkin
I mean, is there any precedent for a plate in your leg having some effect down the road?
Ma4170
Yes, there are articles with different orthopedic surgeons talking about how this type of fracture can lead to a specific arthritis which would definitely impact performance before the end of the deal, which is why the holdup.
Guarded Indian
Dumpster Fire.
southern lion
I have all of Dumster Fire’s records…. 🙂
countryjedi3
so maybe a team jumps in offering short term deal?
NicoHoerndawg
That’s what I’m thinking… this might drag into February and some team like the Yankees or Dodgers would step up and offer something ridiculous, building on top of the 3y Minnesota contract, but with no player opt out. I’m thinking 2y/$95m with a team option on the 3rd year for $35. If he played with whichever team under a contract like that, if you include the $35.1m he was paid in 2022, that would be an average of just over $41m per season for ‘22, ‘23, ‘24 & ‘25. I think he’d be happy to do that and be the highest paid position player per average annual value. If he stays healthy through that contract, another team would be ready to make a similar offer once he’s a free agent again.
Really any team that’s got the players already and current championship aspirations would be smart to try to get an offer in like that because he’s definitely a player that makes even great teams better. Like, would the Padres want to add yet another SS?? Lol
JayRyder
Again, Boras trying do what he did to the Giants. I hope this is a wake up with the League. Boras can not control all major free agent signings. Or set the tone any more. These contracts have gotten so ridiculous, this off-season being the worst. 10 years used to be a milestone. Now it’s par for the course. No freaking way teams have the ability to see that far into the future. And historically, the ten year contracts have all gone bad. All of them. I become more and more proud of the Giants the further this goes along. And Mets fans have to be excited, at least to have an ownership that isn’t just throwing money stupidly and being used by the Boras Corporation. Big spending is one thing. Bad spending, these billion dollar owners want all the research done diligently.
Still can believe Boras tried to actually make the Giants look like fools. What a bad guy. His rep is taking a major hit. And he’ll try to ignore it and still operate as usual. But I find it hard for his sway to not have been impacted at all. My how the high and mighty fall sometimes.
towinagain
Correa to the Pirates…book it.
Bobcastelliniscat
OK. But I don’t want to “book it” because I am afraid you don’t know what you are talking about (no offense) and I don’t want to lose money. I just gave my ex-wife $1,000 so she will have spending money as she goes to visit her parents. I definitely acknowledge that you said Correa will sign with the Pirates. I just can’t afford placing a wager on it. I hope you understand.
CarverAndrews
Boras is really exposed here on this one. He had a shot at spinning things when it came to the Giants deal cratering, partially due to the Giants having the embarrassment of scheduling and then postponing the presser.
But when the richest owner in the game that is throwing $$ around like crazy steps in and is ready to walk away for the same reason after trying to work things out for a couple of weeks then he truly has egg on his face. Correa makes the decisions and perhaps he is driving this narrative, but even if the Twins step in and a deal gets done with higher guarantees than what is now being offered in a revised arrangement, Boras lost face here. Big-time.
stymeedone
Boras and Correa went back to the Twins. I doubt they will be increasing their offer. It definitely won’t be for the Mets or Giants terms.
RockinRobin
This is getting weirder each day. Enough for my to pass if I were a GM.
AllinTX
Correa to the Rangers to play LF or Seager to LF or 1B.
No more than 8 year $200M deal with clauses and incentives.
CaseyAbell
Life is just full of frustration. Especially when Scott Boras is around.
James Midway
This has been the most interesting development this off-season. It would be kinda funny for him to tour the United States just to end up back in Minneapolis.
Paul Griggs
Yeah, for $10 million a year.
AllinTX
To the Rangers 8/$200M with clauses and incentives (up to $50M). Plays SS and Seager to LF or 1B.
coldgoldenfalstaff
Maybe Carlos should change his representation.
WrongM
“Bowden…adds that Minnesota appears more willing to take on some risk regarding Correa’s medicals than either the Giants or the Mets.”
From years of following the Twins and somewhat fewer years of following the Mets, I find this a bit hard to believe.
just_thinkin
Thanks!
Goin' to Sheetz
This feels like a good opportunity for the Mets to let the Twins have him. They can always upgrade at the trade deadline if need be.
Idosteroids
The longer this draws out it seems more likely that some team is going to swoop in and offer another high AAV short term contract. Probably a dozen or more teams have already lined their offers up. And so much for protecting players privacy….although this was going to get out sooner or later…HIPAA…SCHMIPAAA
NicoHoerndawg
Exactly!! I’m thinking 2y/$95m with team option for 3rd year at $35m. Makes him the highest paid position player per annual value over the 4 year span of ‘22-‘25.
WAR_OVERRATED
twitter.com/danhayesmlb/status/1572451692507189250
Took a sec, but Carlos Correa quickly realized his surgically-repairs ankle was OK. #MNTwins
“He just hit my plate. … Just kind of felt numb, vibrating. So I was just waiting for it to calm down. It was a little scary, but when I moved I knew I was good.”
1:04 AM · Sep 21, 2022
theathletic.com/4033222/2022/12/24/mets-correa-physical-concerns/
“He just hit my plate,” Correa told reporters. “I had surgery and he hit it. Just kind of felt numb. Vibrating. So I was just waiting for it to calm down. It was a little scary, but when I moved I knew it was good.”
❤️ MuteButton
I say this without bitterness. I am an Astros fan. Carlos was a very valuable member of our team. But even back when he was an Astro it was very obvious that he was a very self-centered person. This is an opportunity for him to grow up. Who knows if he’ll take it
Paul Griggs
I’m a Twins fan and Correa was a model teammate until the end of the season and he went into “Me Mode”. He made that absurd comment about Gucci and has jumped from highest bidder. On the field he was fine and he showed a lot of leadership but off the field, he doesn’t impress me.
Moneyballer
OK paul cuz you actually know him! Smh. Teammates only say great things about him.
jvent
Go back to the Twins, as a Mets fan I’d like to see Baty play 3b and for the Mets to sign a DH like Voit or even Nelson Cruz
Mac Attack
Or Hosmer
Moneyballer
Hosmer not available.
Paul Griggs
This is an extreme example but almost every deal with Boras ends up with this kind of drama. I wouldn’t touch Correa with a 10′ pole. I hope Correa doesn’t get a big deal, realizes that Boras contributed greatly to it and gets another agent.
luclusciano
I think it is because Boras represents the largest names in baseball – but don’t get it confused – all negotiations between lawyers take time to hammer out until both sides feel like they won – just with the largest stars generally the player side wins. People want name power to put butts in chairs.
Redwolves3
Boras and Correa need to realize they do not hold the negotiation leverage over teams actually considering Correa especially with the Mets and Twins. And they need not think the Giants are going to reopen negotiations.
At this point teams may think Correa is too much of a headache to consider him. It’s becoming even more obvious Correa is “all about himself.” Teams may even be thinking is this the type of “clubhouse player” who will cause major disruptions if something doesn’t go his way?
Correa better be careful. He is about to seal his own fate. Correa could possibly still be trying to find a team to play for when Spring Training begins. If this happens, it’s all on Boras and Correa.
Mac Attack
Walk away and save the money for Ohtani. We should have gone after Turner or Bogaerts.
Unclenolanrules
Okay Astros haters, this one is for you.
Are the Mets going to throw the deal in the trash can?
Tribefan4life
I like that one. Classic!
Augusto Barojas
I just don’t get this. The Mets offered guaranteed money to Correa until they found out, like the Giants did, that he might have an issue down the line with his right leg. So they want a clause put in so that they don’t have to pay him his full salary if something goes wrong with the leg. That’s perfectly reasonable, and fair. Correa wants to get paid $30M a year EVEN IF his already questionable leg prevents him from playing at some point during the contract? Seriously?
That’s just not acting like a reasonable grown up adult, I’m sorry. He’s getting paid an absolutely sick amount of money, after 50M in career earnings to date. Dude is rich as F already. Gets a massive deal to pay him 30M a year for every year he is healthy enough to play, and the Mets only want a clause so they don’t have to pay him if he can’t play due to a specific, existing injury. What tools Correa and Boras are acting like, geez. All else equal I hope the Mets let him walk and that he gets like 1/2 what the Mets offered him from a team like the Twins which will never win a title. It would still be an absolutely stupid amount of money, but Correa will feel bad about it which would serve him right.
sliderwithcheeze
Just amputate the leg and get it over with.
Mikenmn
It’s the player’ right to demand as much as the market will give. Correa and Boras’ problem is that the market is telling them something–there i some caution out there. So, either hold out, take a lesser AAV/years, or agree to an injury clause. If Boras/Correa is as confident as they want the team to be on the injury, then take the higher amount of money and the risk. If they want hard guarantee, then take a little less and get it. But the mistake is playing the game too long. You only get so many chances for a quarter of a billion dollars or more….
nosake
My sense with Correa, since he signaled that he’d leave the Twins in pursuit of a bigger bite of the apple, is that even if he scores the best deal in MLB, tomorrow it will not have been enough. No team wants to be saddled with a malcontent. If I’m considering him at all, I’d look for a short term deal.
Camden453
Steve will step in and say he doesn’t care about injuries
josephf
This Correa saga is so hilarious. Remember how hard people were clowning the Giants? Maybe they were on to something… I wonder if Boras circled back around to them during Mets negotiations. If he did I hope Giants told him and his stupid client to screw off.
Camden453
I can see the Mets side. If Correa falls apart at 34 then they’re still on the hook for six more years. They’re probably trying to get it down to 10 years so at least it’s only 3-4 years of non-production
Shoguneye
The mets get a little nervous with that whole vibration thing
RobM
Feels like posturing now from both sides. Mets “frustrated,” Correa talking to other teams.
BobGibsonFan
Heavily front loaded 12 year deal with player opt outs later on.
23 $45 mil
24 $45 mil
25 $40 mil
26 $40 mil
27 $40 mil Player Option
28 $40 mil
29 $10 mil
30 $10 mil Team Option
31 $10 mil Player Option
32 $10 mil
33 $10 mil
34 $10 mil
Moneyballer
Absolutely no way Correa agrees to that crazy deal.
CJML
I’d say no way the Mets agree to that crazy deal. That’s basically a 5 year 210 million dollar deal and if he’s injured it turns into 8 year 270 deal.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
He’d be stupid to not agree to that deal. It’s a guaranteed $260M over 7 years, a $37.143M AAV. At this point he wouldn’t be losing out on much if any potential salary from such a deal.
leftcoaster
Only a fool would sign Correa to a long term deal at this point. Go kick a can kid.
iBleeedBlue
It’s clear at this point that he will sign with the luckiest sucker with the most money left to give him.
*Andrew Friedman has entered the chat.
M.C.Homer
Arte Moreno on line 2…
Hexbreaker
Jon Heyman is a hack.
Rsox
So either the Twins don’t really care about Correa’s ankle or they will re-offer the 10 year deal and include 8 opt-outs to sweeten the deal
Colavito
The commissioner should step in before this cheating POS defrauds MLB again, seize his WS ring, give him a lifetime ban, and have him charged with theft through conversion and racketeering for his role in the most significant scandal since the Black Sox.
greg1
Paying a guy who you have health concerns about right now seems like a bad idea to me.
Snellzilla #7
Lmao! This is amusing. Mets try to steal away a guy with obvious issues and then don’t want the issues
agnes gooch
#FireF—-you of all people owe Zaidi an apology as you were one of the most vocal and vile in trashing him when the Giants pulled out. Number one, it was Giants ownership, mostly Greg Johnson, who had the say in a contract like that. And two, Zaidi and the Giants medical staff were right.
I know you have other issues with Farhan, I do not, I love him. But that is not what I’m discussing here. I’m only focusing on the reprehensible vitriol you wrote on here and on Twitter in the days following the Giants pulling out. It was so uncalled for and you were wrong!
tutopelotas1
Mister POS…Stop that hate, which is poisoning your spirit
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
This is like trying to find a high school prom date.
cpdpoet
….when your in 6th grade…..
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Well, you probably should go back to 6th grade because it’s “you’re” not “your.”
Hopefully your prom date doesn’t dislike your poor use of grammar.
cpdpoet
Well, I was on the L and on my phone (auto-correct) AND I was agreeing with you……?
It being a bit funnier if someone is in 6th grade actually tries to find a prom date….
But hey everyone finds grammar police hilarious so I guess you win….? Now please go back to your “safe space”
WAR_OVERRATED
twitter.com/danhayesmlb/status/1572451692507189250
Took a sec, but Carlos Correa quickly realized his surgically-repairs ankle was OK. #MNTwins
“He just hit my plate. … Just kind of felt numb, vibrating. So I was just waiting for it to calm down. It was a little scary, but when I moved I knew I was good.”
1:04 AM · Sep 21, 2022
===
theathletic.com/4033222/2022/12/24/mets-correa-physical-concerns/
“He just hit my plate,” Correa told reporters. “I had surgery and he hit it. Just kind of felt numb. Vibrating. So I was just waiting for it to calm down. It was a little scary, but when I moved I knew it was good.”
==
It’s also worth noting that Correa made reference to the plate in his leg after a game on Sept. 20 in which he appeared to be injured following a hard slide. But he missed no time afterward.
“He just hit my plate,” Correa told reporters. “I had surgery and he hit it. Just kind of felt numb. Vibrating. So I was just waiting for it to calm down. It was a little scary, but when I moved I knew it was good.”
google.com/amp/s/theathletic.com/4062329/2023/01/0…
Tomas7
If this deal does fall through, I like Escobar/Baty at the hot corner; Escobar can heat up and Baty almost big league ready to rake, both can play the position well.
Bill M
Sorry but I don’t think that “almost big league ready to rake” equates to making the opening day roster, let alone getting regular playing time. And there’s already talk of grooming Baty to play left field. The Mets should be fine with Escobar at third with Guillorme as the backup and all of their highly touted prospects starting the season at AAA.
JackStrawb
@Bill M Well said. Btw, that the Mets have failed to turn even one of Baty, Vientos, or Mauricio into a competent fielding 3Bman is a serious concern. What are they doing with them down on the farm, that they haven’t been able to do this??
Ma4170
I love Baty’s future as a hitter though.
MarlinsFanBase
Let me see…Correa…the Mets…all the ingredients for a great show.
I’m just sitting back with my popcorn and lemonade to watch the show.
Does this count as an episode of LOL Mets?
VonPurpleHayes
IMO they’re only LOL if they sign an elite SS with a bamboo ankle to a megadeal and decrease his value by playing him at 3B. I actually respect the Mets and Giants for being cautious with this.
MarlinsFanBase
I’m hoping for the Mets to sign him. The show will have a longer shelf-life. If he goes somewhere else, it’d be like Charlie Sheen leaving Two and 1/2 men, Suzanne Somers leaving Three’s Company, All the characters being eliminated from the Simpsons or Family Guy, etc. The comedy just wouldn’t be the same.
Richard Alicea
This has gone on long enough, lets continue our off season and let Correa walk, I would love to have him but if he and his agent are playing footsie with Cohen, then we need to pivot. Next year Juan Soto, Othani, Machado and others will become available. Let the Twins take that risk; he can continue his career in obscurity as the Twins will never make the postseason, let alone smell a WS, if that’s what Carlos wants then more power to him, chase the money pal. The Mets are going places, the Twins are not.
Pete Ladd’s glasses
How many World Series have the Mets won? Oh yeah, two. 1969 and 1986. How about the Twins? Two also! And those are more recent (albeit by only a few years). Soooo….not sure who is going places….both living pushing 3-4 decades since being relevant. But ok
Carter86
We are talking about the current trajectory of the organizations. If you don’t see what’s happening in Mets town you’re not paying attention.
MarlinsFanBase
I always see a Mets team that has self-proclaimed greatness by their media and fans while still being the NL East team with the longest championship drought as they often are the laughing stock of the NL East and MLB.
And as far as trajectory goes, I remember Mets fans talking in 1998 that they guaranteed that the Mets would win another championship before the Marlins won again. That seems like it didn’t go too well.
Bill M
Winning 101 games and making the postseason last year makes the Mets pretty relevant
Hurricane Sandy
People would have said the same thing about the Kansas City Royals prior to 2015. As a lifelong Mets fan who has never seen them win a World Series (I was 3 in ‘86), we simply can’t talk to people like this until they back it all up with some winning. I’ve seen a lot of teams with lots of bravado and star power, only to come up short like always (‘92, ‘02, ‘06, ‘07, ‘08). I don’t look negatively upon the ‘99-‘00 or ‘15 teams since those were humbler teams that got the most out of their talent.
MarlinsFanBase
Bingo!
Moneyballer
LOL i literally laughed out loud. Yeah those mets are just reigning in championships aren’t they?! Typical foolish new york fan, always thinking this is their year. You follow the mets, you should know better!
MarlinsFanBase
I think he’s betting on all that historical greatness the Mets have anointed upon themselves.
Ma4170
Expecting greatness over the next few years is foolish for any team, but the Mets look to be very good again just like last year. And their farm system is very promising (even though there are obviously no guarantees there).
milla
I remember the hapless Mets of 1962 with Roger Craig and Marvelous Marv Throneberry. But it only took until 1969 to win it all! That’s a lot less time than I waited from 1954 to 2010 as a Giants fan.
MarlinsFanBase
And the Marlins won their first championship in 1997 after starting in 1993…which is far less than both of those teams.
Carter86
And currently the Marlins franchise is a joke.
MarlinsFanBase
@Carter86
Have a you checked those championship totals for this joke of a franchise? Same amount as the Mets in far less years. And both since MLB expanded to the current total of teams and financial discrepancies between markets, which makes it harder, but the big market Mets still can’t win a championship since this format started.
Yeah, I guess being more of a championship fail than a franchise that is a joke explains why the Mets are usually the laughing stock of the NL East and MLB.
Oh yeah…and…1986!
TrillionaireTeamOperator
I feel like MLB needs to wake up and realize that they don’t owe Correa anything. He’s not destined or anointed any contract.
He has to accept a deal that a team is comfortable giving him and the market tends to correct itself and give most players a deal that most teams agree is fair and it comes down to a little extra sweetening of one kind or another.
So I don’t get why it’s so hard for teams to wake up and draw a line in the sand with guys like Correa who so greatly over value themselves.
Some players are worth the years and the dollars- I think Devers’ deal with the Red Sox is extremely reasonable on AAV and length. So it’s not the years or the dollars that are ridiculous- it’s Correa’s actual value and his history of injuries and inconsistent production that make his demands ridiculous and impossible to align with his true year to year value.
Give him 3 years/$105M and if he lives up to that deal give him another 2-3 years at $37M AAV. It works for players who know they’re worth the money, like Verlander. Correa knows he isn’t worth it. That’s why things have gone the way they’ve gone.
Big whiffa
There’s no reason this process needs to be wrapped up anytime soon. If anything the market for Correa is as wide open as it’s ever been. Any team that was willing to invest 200 mil is on the table now. So where there was once 2-3 suitors now there’s possibly 10. So Correa can take all the time he needs to plan his next step. It’s a huge decision, hope he chooses well
TrillionaireTeamOperator
The thing is the market was never wide open. We’ve only ever really heard of the Tigers, Twins, Giants and Mets- Tigers never got to the stage of a physical. Giants and Mets backed off upon a physical. Twins are offering virtually the same deal the Tigers offered, but contingent on a physical. Nobody will give him $200M if they won’t give him $300M etc if they all feel he won’t hold up over the length of a deal that would equal that kind of money. Nobody should or will give him $40M a year or $35M a year etc so to get to $209M or more he’d need to get around 7 years guaranteed, which isn’t much less of a risk than 10 or 12 etc.
I think most teams don’t trust him to hold up beyond 3 or 4 years, so he isn’t worth more than $100M or so.
Shady1771
Correa is going to wind up playing in a slow pitch beer league if this goes on any longer! Too many players try to hide injuries and this is one time a player has been caught. Sadly I think Correa will be the sacrificial lamb that sends the message to all the other players who try to hide their injuries. Owners are not going to blindly hand over these monster contracts without putting in a clause that protects their interests.
Yanks2
Give me an example of a player who tried hiding their injuries. How is that even possible if the medical records have to be seen before a deal is even official
phenomenalajs
I was wrong about the Mets signing him before we had a Speaker. SMH
NYMetsFanatic
Just pull the plug on him and move on, Mets. No one should care this much or this long about him. Let’s move on to the other moves we need to make while we’re still able to make them.
milla
Now that his value has been severely downgraded, it’s a good time for the team most absent of a franchise player to swoop back in..the Giants. While they have downplayed that possibility, logically…they arguably have the most room left on their payroll.
LordD99
We don’t know what alterations the Mets are seeking to the contract. They could be similar to what the Giants will request. If so, then he probably should continue negotiating with the Mets if NY is his preferred destination.
stymeedone
Key words are “if the Mets are his preferred destination.” He has no preferred destination. He just wants money.
milla
I can’t help but be cynical. “Preferred destination” equals whomever will pay you the most money 99% of the time!
Moneyballer
What other moves? You guys signing wacha wacha wacha? No one left hoss.
Ma4170
I’d like to see them sign Chafin actually
toomanyblacksinbaseball
At this point, I’d rather see RuPaul.
acmeants
No more than 5 years or it’s a bad team deal.
giantsfan1976 2
Steve Cohen: “I have altered the real. Pray I don’t alter it further.”
Tdat1979
Correa to the A’s. 2 years 5 million
drasco036
What are the Mets “frustrated” about. They had an agreement in place, knowing Correa already “failed” one physical, and then he “failed” their physical… what did they think, They would pull the wool over Boras’s eyes and get him to agree to a significantly altered contract?
Correa and the Mets is interesting given the amount of arrogance on both sides of the negotiation… Boras presumably is the most arrogant agent in baseball and Cohen’s arrogance is world renowned. Meanwhile the Mets front office is one of the biggest jokes in baseball… I just wish you could read transcripts of all these conversations
rocky7
Both guys on either side Cohen and Boras) have that arrogance because of the power they wield, and in Cohen’s case the money he has and makes each and every year…..if his gambling gambit works out, he’ll double his net worth inside of 5 years so he has the money to take a chance….on the other hand, guys like him don’t like to make bad business and given Correa’s medicals, without having options to get out of such a long term contract if that leg diminishes his abilities.
Boras, will continue to argue his position although he has no down side if Correa’s medicals do come back to haunt this contract…..very interesting situation to see who blinks first…….
Moneyballer
He should have re-signed with the Twins all along! We may be an ugly stepsister but we still know how to please. The sheets are warm in minneapolis!
rocky7
This guy is all about his brand and doubt that he can take full advantage of marketing his brand in Minny……only way he signs is with multiple opt outs giving him a chance to take advantage of an escape clause out of Minny……..and those sheets are warm for lots of other reasons than you think!
twinky
Correa ….. Minnesota bound…..
bravesfan
His value is definitely going to drop. I’m starting to think he should have just stay in Minnesota to begin with. I’d be shocked if Minnesota does a massive long term deal. I’d imagine it will be basically the same deal he got last year.
Watch out for the Braves here. Wouldn’t shock me if they bid like 6 years $200 mil. I do think it’s highly unlikely that this ever happens, but if these medical concerns are real, this deal isn’t that crazy
luclusciano
To be fair – no one knows what is happening behind the scenes. We are all assuming that neither side is budging – but I am sure this contract has been red-lined – accepted and red-lined again and again.
Seems like Correa may be going the “3 years at a clip” rate with a high AAV. With all of these issues it is hard to see any MLB team investing in him long term without serious team opt out clauses.
cpdpoet
Define high AAV?
Have seen a couple posters stating a 3yr 40+ deal should get it done.
My issue is that he’s not worth 40 for the production he offers. I know he’s worth what someone is willing to pay, but I don’t see the need to overcompensate him, just because….?
JackStrawb
@cpdpoet He’d easily be worth 3/120m to the Mets. I’m sure they’d much rather pay that for a 5-1/2 win player still in his prime than even the Twins offer of 10/285m, which breaks to 7/165m for Correa’s age 31-37 seasons after paying him arguendo 3/120m for his age 28-30 seasons.
Don’t know what the $ per FA WAR currently is, but it surely jumped this offseason from the previous $8m per.
cpdpoet
Don’t have a dog in this 3way city fight as a Phillies fan, but recently was wondering if Boras didn’t IMMEDIATELY pivot to NY……maybe a deal COULD have been worked out in SF…?
Boras should have known the Mets were going to find the same thing….? Right?
Whatever comes of this, what I don’t really want to see is a heavily laden player opt out deal OR Boras threatening to sue….
BenBenBen
Steve Adams and/or MLBTR editors (if they exist) need to figure this out:
“Heyman, too, noted that Minnesota had been in touch with Correa’s camp in recent weeks.”
…should not be written when you can just say “Heyman also noted that Minnesota had been in touch with Correa’s camp in recent weeks.”
JackStrawb
You’ve created an ambiguity, though. What else did Heyman note?
BenBenBen
What immediately preceded it, obviously. Read the article.