Atlanta’s Max Fried lost his arbitration hearing against the team, according to Justin Toscano of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. The CAA Sports client will be paid $13.5MM for the upcoming season, rather than the $15MM he’d filed for.
Fried’s been a quality starter for a number of years now, but put together his best season yet in 2022, tossing 185 1/3 innings of 2.48 ball. The left-handed Fried walked batters just 4.4% of the time – about half that of the league-average, while striking out batters at a 23.2% clip. That output was worth 5 fWAR, an All Star appearance and a runner-up finish in NL Cy Young voting. Fried also took home a Gold Glove for his defense.
The 29-year-old has been one of the sport’s best starters over the past few seasons. Since 2020, Fried owns a 2.68 ERA over 407 innings (69 starts). However, his brilliant season in 2022 evidently wasn’t enough to sway the case in his favor, and he’ll take home $1.5MM less than he’d argued for in his third season of arbitration eligibility (Fried is a Super Two player). It’s the second straight season Fried and Atlanta have gone to a hearing to determine his salary. Last season he took home a $6.85MM salary after winning his case against Atlanta, who had argued for a salary of $6.6MM – a $250K difference.
At times, the difference in salary can seem rather trivial given the salary being earned, and particularly in this case given Fried’s standing as one of the best pitchers in the game. So it’s worth taking a look at this article from MLBTR from 2015 for a deeper look inside the arbitration process, and why teams haggle over what can sometimes seem like rather insignificant sums of money.
This is Fried’s penultimate year of club control, and barring a long-term extension he’ll go through arbitration once more next winter before hitting free agency after the 2024 season. Of course, given Atlanta’s recent habit of tying up their stars to long-term contracts it certainly wouldn’t surprise to see them make a play at keeping Fried long term, although his output to date and dwindling years of club control would suggest it’d take a significant sum to get a deal done.
He has two seasons remaining with the Braves. The open market will pay him significantly better than Atlanta.
I knew he wouldn’t get 15mil. Absolutely no way possible.
H E Pennypacker
FUTURE NEW YORK MET
Bart Harley Jarvis
My cousin knows a guy whose brother says he wants to pitch for the Phillies. And my cousin’s acquaintance’s brother has never been wrong about these things.
You are joking but I did hear through rumblings he was telling ppl @ Dansby Swanson’s wedding he is a West Coast guy & grew up rooting for the Dodgers. And expects to head back there when he hits Free Agency.
Those rumblings got mixed up, like the telephone game. What he said at the wedding is that he is *not* a west coast guy and prefers to be on a team based in the Bronx, NY.
Now, I heard this firsthand… from third-hand sources.
Yep went to HS with Jack Flaherty and Lucas Giolito. Decent rotation there.
I think it was just a rumbly in your tumbly.
All good..let them overpay for him. He’s always been GOOD, never been GREAT. Somehow manages to get injured. His World Series clincher has been the absolute highlight of his career.
Well, in all honesty I think a World Series clincher would be the highlight of anyone’s career.
so let me get this straight…the guy is consistently in the running for CY, was an All-star, won a gold glove this year and you say he’s good but not great?? What can he do to be great? Does he need to win 3 straight CYs and a couple MVPs to boot?
Dude really likes sushi. He’s for sure going to Japan
What do you consider great? Being top 5 to 10 in baseball for 3+ years doesn’t meet the criteria?
Yes, when he turns 38 Cohen will be interested in paying him record AAV. Spot on.
H E Pennypacker
You know very little about how your own organization is run, apparently. The Braves don’t have $250M to give Fried. Sorry bud.
They absolutely have it just as every organization does. You forget about the money that is coming off the books soon. Rosario, Odorizzi, and Morton are gone after this yr. That’s 37 mil right there. Ozuna is another 18 mil the following yr. They can easily pay both. They can definitely pay Fried if he wants to be there. They can buy out Wright’s remaining arbitration years and get both for basically 45-50 mil yr for a few yrs.
H E Pennypacker
“They absolutely have it just as every organization does”
Every organization isn’t publicly traded. The Braves being spun-off could be a pre-cursor to a sale of shares of ABH don’t raise enough capital to keep the team afloat. Nothing is a given, the bill always come due, and I’d argue the Braves have a conundrum on their hands if they want to keep up their high-spending ways in 3-4 years.
Odorizzi? We traded him for Allard
Took on money in the trade. Same financially as if he were still being paid.
I think Fried is not going to get 250m. If he does it will be, like these recent contracts, essentially a matter of further inflation. Pitchers aren’t gonna get those deals unless maybe if they strike out a ridiculous amount. He has already had tommy John surgery once.
They’re still paying almost all of his contract.
The bill comes due for every team every yr. They don’t have anymore big contracts to give minus Fried and/or Wright. Their core is locked up for a long time. And should they need to move pieces around, teams will be lining up for all of those affordable contracts as prices continue to skyrocket. They’re the only team that can’t say that.
The Braves have most of their core locked in for five years. That’s plenty of time to rebuild the farm and reload when these contracts are up.
Tell me: what’s the franchise record contract given by ATL to a pitcher? Having it is irrelevant, they developed pitching so heavily so they wouldn’t have to give it.
He’s not geriatric enough for the Mets.
3-4 years of (Charlie Sheen voice) winning — when the new TV deal is due. The Battery is churning profits. If they can survive Freeman, Swanson, they can survive Fried. Next man up.
They haven’t played without Swanson yet and would have had a better chance to win the World Series last year with Freeman.
They’ve survived Freeman and Swanson?
Looks more like back to their ways of failing to get out of the NLDS sans Freeman. Couple that with Swanson this year you wonder if they’ll regress back to losing WC rounds.
The nerve to think they’ve survived Freeman and Swanson… what are you even saying? Some of you are so biased it’s absurd.
As for Fried he is probably gone. And that would be plenty survivable assuming they’re willing to go out and replace, but this org doesn’t do that. We’re going to have to continue being extremely fortunate that most of these prospects have been panning out with major contributions as of late. We’ll be looking for a similar boost from someone after Fried exits.
The reality is the Braves won’t pay for proven talent. Their model is roll the dice on multiple prospects all connecting simultaneously. When it’s going well it looks genius. When it’s not it looks like Wisler, Folty, Blair, Mallex Smith, and Kelly Johnson.
Braves fans hate to admit it because right now it’s all clicking but this org is just as susceptible to leaning on players that don’t pan out like that other group.
It’s going to be a hard reality check for some of you if Grissom doesn’t pan out and there isn’t another ace to replace Fried shortly after. You think they’ll bother addressing those if those guys fall short? Take one look at the cavernous corner outfield production that’s gone unaddressed for 3 years now for all the evidence you need to see they won’t.
If they don’t pay for proven talent, why are Olson, Morton, Ozuna, Murphy, Iglesias, Rosario, and McHugh on this team?
No clue why Ozuna and Rosario is on the team. Not sure what your point with them is.The Braves downgraded with Olson and Murphy. Iglesias was traded for and not signed by the Braves. Mchugh is 5 mil a year. Not exactly breaking the bank.
You said they don’t pay for proven talent. I just showed you that you lied.
Rosario and McHugh are on 2 year contracts totaling less than $20 million
I guess let me rephrase. The Braves won’t pay for any proven to be good talent.
They’ll give out 1 year and 2 year deals to guys all day long. The players who have actually proven to be valuable commodities though (you know someone who teams want longer than 2 years) the Braves will never pay.
Now let’s keep going with your list. Murphy is not a proven talent. He’s had 1 good year. Even if we do want to consider him a proven talent, his contract buys out 3 years of arbitration. They do nothing they own him for 3 years. So how many free agent years did they actually buy? A measly 3 years, which I guess is better than 2 years seen in your other examples. Nonetheless, proven good talent usually commands more than 3 years on the market.
Who’s next? Morton? Strong of 1 year deals. Not that you want to do anything more than that with a guy like him but once again you’re trying to get cute saying I lied about signing proven talent when you know what I’m saying.
Technically you could say I’m wrong when they sign any free agent, no matter how small the talent or contract. As long as they’re not a prospect they signed “proven talent” right?
Let’s keep going. Iglesias was a trade. They didn’t sign anyone. And again only traded for someone with 3 years on the contract.
Ozuna was 4 years so we’re getting better in length. But was Ozuna really a “talent”?
When was the last time the Braves signed a proven talent that commanded at least $20 mil+ AAV? I guess I have to get very specific with all of you in here because you think you’re being clever with some technicality about how wrong I am.
Braves signed Nick Anderson this offseason guys…. Look how wrong I am!!!! Lol
Matt Olson might be your only argument. And that was still a downgrade in the process of it all.
Ozuna is on the team because he finished sixth in MVP voting in 2020.
Rosario, because of how he played before going to Cleveland and how he played after coming over from Cleveland, including his NLCS MVP.
Olson is a top-6 1st baseman, according to MLB.com.
Murphy is a top-4 catcher.
Iglesias cost 16M per year, whether he was signed or traded for doesn’t matter.
“When was the last time the Braves signed a proven talent that commanded at least $20 mil+ AAV? I guess I have to get very specific with all of you in here because you think you’re being clever with some technicality about how wrong I am.”
If it makes you feel better to move the goalposts, go right ahead.
Wow. Some pretty lame statements there. Kelly Johnson was a well above average player for one thing. That was not even remotely the same generation. You are just naming random people that didn’t work out mostly from their history. The Blair/Wisler/Folty trio did fail to blossom but it was not expected to be the crop that would have them competing for a title, just the beginning assets of a rebuild. You are saying they don’t pay for talent although they have raised payroll over 2x what it was consistently not long ago. The only large hole that popped up was 1b and they gave Matt Olsen a quite large contract. I don’t look at short and left as huge holes as Rosario has been a good player almost every year of his career and there are two decent options for SS in a lineup that is already good enough. The model is not “roll the dice” for many prospects all panning out simultaneously. Over half of those top prospects didn’t work out and were flipped for other assets and they chose very wisely in general. I agree they should have kept Freeman. That said Olsen is a very good player and is going to likely get better than last year even (he handled taking over the helm from a beloved favorite quite well overall). Why would they pay Swanson anywhere near that money? He is not remotely worth it. Freeman was but they turned around and gave MORE money and assets for Olsen to replace him so it wasn’t cheap.
What are you all arguing over? The Braves have won what, 4-5 straight division titles and one WS. Who cares how they acquire players. They have a top 5 payroll.
All of those players are proven talent, contract length and cost are irrelevant. If you expect them to spend the most money in baseball on free agents then that’s your stupidity. Why would they go that route when what they’re doing is working? They can trade for talent, build from within with talent, and then build what’s left through free agency. They’ve only recently become a team that was given freedom to spend. They did the smart thing and spent on a young core so the need for big free agent spending wasn’t necessary. They spend big on their own now so what’s the difference.
Losing a middle of the order bat hurts but losing a TOR hurts far more. Swanson eh still not sold on him. Freeman was replaced quickly. Doubt they replace Fried as easily. Look what Castillo cost. Atlanta doesn’t have that to give up anymore. Doubt he stocks the farm enough to make a TOR trade when Fried hits FA. The 2025 off-season should be an interesting one. The Marlins will probably have a couple of solid pitchers available that season. They have made deals in the past, maybe it happens again.
Pretty sure what he meant is the Braves don’t play at the top of the market. They would rather shell out 2 mid market contracts than pay a little more for top tier talent. Not sure why. It’s been 30 years but the last time they chased the best they landed Maddux and look how that turned out. If they are going to continue down their current path they need a top talent evaluator handling their draft. Without constant talent knocking on the door sooner or later they will have one too many holes to fill.
Greg Maddux kinda chased the Braves. He was offered more by the Yankees and turned them down.
According to Maddux, the story goes that he was planning to sign with NYY – even making the trip to NYC to do so – but never received an official offer when NYY managing general partner (Joe Molloy) had a heart attack — and never received an offer. Maddux spoke with his agent (Scott Boras) and told him to make it happen with ATL, as they were his previous #1 choice, while boarding a flight from NYC-LV. When he landed in Vegas, he had an offer from ATL. The rest is history.
He’s not geriatric enough to pitch for the Mets. Give him 15 years and then pay him too much
H E Pennypacker
This guy signed up just to post this twice. #amateur
How do you know he just signed up? I just signed up. I’ve been using this site for probably over 10 years and just made an account. How do you view someones profile?
Agreed the Mets would make a lot of sense. They will have a bunch of money freed up when he hits free agency. Unless of course Cohen gets his championship by then. He didn’t make all of his money by spending it aimlessly and once he gets that ring it wouldn’t surprise to see him clamp down a bit on the spending. With Atlanta dragging him through the arb process in back to back years, last year being over a measley $250k I doubt he gives them much of a discount. Not with what TOR pitchers are scoring in FA lately. He has one TJ under his belt already. Hopefully, he keeps that in mind and doesn’t push it for a CY. It would be a shame for him to go down when he is so close to his payday. Always like Fried since his prospect days. I was glad to see San Diego send him to Atlanta. Someone on the Padres farm is abusing their pitching prospects. Too many have gone down with serious arm injuries.
Bart Harley Jarvis
Agreed, the Phillies would make a lot of sense.
Not what I expected.
Best Screenname Ever
What comparator were you relying on that is different from the one the arbitration board chose?
Fans don’t use that. They have their own bias evaluations which they make exactly when they post. Very little thought goes into it and they usually use terrible comps like free agents vs pre arb guys and really lack an understanding on how things work.
This also applies to anything on Facebook marketplace
Guy is not staying with the Braves. He sees all his teammates getting extensions and the Braves are fighting him over $1.5M. Guy’s a winner and the Braves treat him terribly.
Braves are strictly file and trial with arbitration and always have been. This shouldn’t be surprising to anyone. It’s not personal and so far no player has made it personal.
Also Fried is the union rep for the Braves I believe. He went to arb to try and raise the floor for future players. It wasnt personal on either side.
H E Pennypacker
You don’t know that for sure. Besides, the Braves are basically tapped out. They can’t afford to keep Fried plus Wright, Strider. The bill always comes due.
Jon429, I absolutely agree that it’s not personal, but I have no idea how you can know that no player has made it personal. If you’re talking publicly, then you’re correct. No player has said publicly that there’s any resentment.
But no one knows how the player will take this internally. It’s been documented that players don’t take kindly to hearing the team itemize their negatives. It’s the main reason why a lot of teams try hard to avoid going to arbitration. Some team teams, like the Giants almost never do. The last time the Giants went to arbitration was in 2003.
You are crazy if you think this isn’t personal. Fried is good as gone after fighting with the Braves every year on his worth.
He may get traded before he has the option to leave. The Braves need to rebuild that farm and if they can’t extend him, than they shouldn’t allow him to hit FA and get nothing in return. It’s a gamble bc the dude can be a key piece in a playoff run.
@soco Agreed. I’ve argued that as well. Trading Fried would bring back some interesting pieces that would restock the farm a bit. In terms of a playoff run with him, well, he isn’t exactly consistent in the postseason. Although I appreciate what he did in game 6.
ATL is not going to risk winning in the major leagues to “rebuild the farm” — simply hilarious. They have no restrictions in the international market and have a much higher success rate at developing their own. Combine that for less need with many positions locked up the next half decade, and they will be fine.
I do agree with you there but I am fully expecting them to seal Fried next offseason.
My understanding is he is open with his wanting to go home to California to pitch and the Braves had offered him a couple extensions in the past already that he turned down because he wants to head West.
I really thought and still do that if the Yankees missed out on Rodon he woulda been dealt there for a package involving Dominguez and then with the money freed up they would have signed a SP to fill out the rotation.
@RunDMC I do agree that it’s unlikely if the Braves are in contention which them being in contention is very likely. A starter tho can be more expendable compared to Freeman and Swanson everyday players. Like I said it would be a gamble but the Braves currently don’t have a good farm and they have been using the farm to fill in their gaps by promoting and trade. They have more depth issues than in years past imo and that’s a concern for making a deep run. Your talking about getting teenagers from the international? That takes years of development. That doesn’t do a whole lot at this years trade deadline or next to fill the gaps/injuries. When they made their WS run they had that depth via Joc Soler Rosario and Duvall and acquired some of these guys via trade. So really what I’m saying is that should the Braves trade Fried if they are just going to get to the NLDS with him?
@ Sococomfort — “a starter” — sure. “A frontline starter with WS experience and you’d start in any Game 1…” — yeah, that’s not available at the Trade Deadline for anything less than a king’s ransom. When was the last time a contending team traded a presumed Game 1-3 SP at the Trade Deadline…? Serious question, I’d like to know. I agree rebuilding the farm is important, but not at the cost of punting your chances in any season regardless of your pitching depth (insert cliche line….”you can’t have enough _______”).
I don’t see AA as taking that chance AND a fellow GM giving him what is needed to do so. Much like LAD, one of the richest teams in MLB, they almost always replace rotational arms internally (i.e. Bauer’s high-AAV 3-year contract being an exception because of the few years it took to get him and coming off a Cy Young season — and look at how that contract turned out for them).
@RunDMC I’m not talking about the Braves trading Fried for another top arm. I’m talking about the Kings Ransom going to the Braves. I agree that it’a not in AA’s playbook to do such a thing. He always tries to go after it. I just see this team not making a deep run in the playoffs. If Riley or Acuna or Olson goes down with significant injury then the Braves are screwed. They don’t have the pieces to fill these internally or via trade. If the Braves have these significant injuries and are 3rd in the NL East and scraping for a wild card spot in July, imo they should listen to offers to see if they can get that kings ransom. As a Braves fan, I really hope I’m wrong tho lol. Randy Johnson Mariners to the Astros. Mariners had won the division the year before. Traded bc they couldn’t reach an extension. In 2008 Cleveland traded CC Sabathia to the Brewers. Cleveland finished 3rd in division at 81-81 6 games back of the wildcard.
“They don’t have the pieces to fill this internally” — as if 2021 never happened. Sure, you can play the IF-game all day long — take a 5-7 WAR player out for a significant amount of the season, and NYM/PHI are healthy (past Harper being out until June) — that may be it. But you never know. Acuña carried the 2021 team until his ACL injury in ’21, which led to Pederson add, then eventually Duvall, Soler, Rosario.
I’m talking about teams that finished winning their respective divisions AFTER trading away a marquee pitcher that would have started a G1-G3.
The other thing is that I’m sure AA will entertain the idea of trading Fried for the right package — as he’s said that he’s always listening to make team better (hence, why there’s a policy of no NTCs throughout player contracts). However, I doubt there are teams willing to make those trades, giving up top prospects, but I could be wrong. LAD haven’t given big money (outside of Bauer) to a free agent pitcher in a long time — and that’s the most likely destination for Fried (and they need to re-sign Urias). They’ve been successful in developing pitching within, while also resurrecting careers for minimum.
These comments are unbearably stupid. Read the second to last paragraph. Teams aren’t going to willingly pay players want they want from the kindness of their heart. It’s a business.
Fw, I think you mean ‘some’ teams. This situation isn’t typical throughout MLB. Not all teams take a hard line over what seems like an insignificant difference.
Yes, it’s a business, and some teams make more of a point about sticking to the budget. But like most businesses, a lot of teams try hard to keep valued employees happy. There’s a better chance to retain those employees, when they are happy. It isn’t only about doing something out of the goodness of their hearts.
This says to me that the Braves feel they have no chance at extending Fried. It might be different if they felt he could be, and doing so was within their budget.
Yes they do, tad. Some just don’t do it with certain players. But every team has taken players to arbitration hearings even if they feel like said player was worth what he was asking for. The argument that they want to keep employees happy is stupid because of what you said in your last sentence. If the Braves offer him a deal somewhere in the ballpark of what he’s worth, do you really think he’s going to be like “nope they didn’t give me that extra 1.5m in arb I’m going to sign with another team out of spite.” But yes I do agree they don’t see him re-signing.
Fw, Maybe the idea of keeping Fried happy is stupid. It probably is. But, in the regard of keeping employees happy, I was speaking generally. And it isn’t stupid for players that lack the potential earning power in free-agency that a player like Fried has.
But you’re wrong when you say that “every team has taken players to arbitration hearings even if they feel like said player was worth what he was asking for”. As I noted elsewhere, the Giants have not taken a player to arbitration since 2003, 20 years ago.
And that player was A.J. Pierzynski, a player that they had not been happy with, and not only had no intention of retaining but actually released. The Yankees last hearing was in 2017, and they had 9 arb cases this season and none went to a hearing.
Just because it’s been awhile for some teams doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened, I’m going to assume your comments about keeping people happy is stupid was sarcasm. Yes, that actually may be a valuable approach for some small businesses to keep employees happy. But that’s a totally different setting. The point that I’m making when I say it’s stupid is that it won’t affect his decision on if he decides to re-sign or not. If he goes somewhere else it’s because the offer is way more than the Braves offered. If all things are equal he isn’t going to spurn the Braves because of it. He won a WS with the team and he knows they’re competitive and it would be silly to push all that aside because of a disagreement over $1.5m in arb. When the time comes and if all offers are equal and he goes somewhere else (other than his hometown California) than I will concede the argument they hurt his feelings by not being kind enough.
Fw, Do you beat a dead horse often? I guess you just want an excuse to continue to call me stupid, intentionally ignoring my earlier clarification. I already admitted that being happy or not, wasn’t going to mean much for anything with Fried. He’ll be in nigh demand. with multiple choices. But Fried is atypical, so what applies to him is not indicative of most players.
But, as I have also stated previously the way the Braves operate is not typical. Of the teams that have been competitive over the past decade, the Braves and Rays are not like most of the others. Those other teams tend to do everything they can to avoid going into an arbitration hearing. Why don’t you tell me why that is? Why would teams care so much about not going to arb, that a team like the Giants haven’t gone to an arb hearing in 20 years?
If it’s been 20 years since the Giants’ last hearing, then yeah, it pretty much doesn’t happen. Almost no one from 2003 is even in the organization anymore, so it appears they have a policy of trying not
to go to arbitration ever, if possible.
Came here for the terrible this guy is leaving ATL take’s because of this arbitration case. When are fans going to stop saying dumb things like this. For every Kris Bryant situation these players are all smart enough to know this is a business. If their egos are hurt by some criticism don’t go to the hearing.
And stop with the it’s only 1.5 million. You don’t even know how it works. The takes are worst for the guys in their first arb cases.
Even Bryant’s situation was overblown by the media. I personally talked to him off the record when he was with the Cubs, and it was Boras and the players’ union that had him fight that thing. He always understood its a business, and he never held that against the Cubs. If Chicago had offered him a good deal, he would have signed in a heartbeat. They weren’t that interested and with good reason. That is going to be a bad deal for the Rockies.
Well this wasn’t his first arbitration case but thanks for saying everyone has a terrible take with a terrible point.
How exactly do I have a terrible take? Because I actually understand the arb process. Must have tilted you with what I said because I described you. Get smarter and figure out how the process works before commenting you won’t get your feelings hurt until playoffs when the Mets don’t win anything again if they’re lucky enough to make it.
You obviously don’t understand the arbitration process because you keep saying it’s his first one. It was his second one. You clearly have no clue how the process works since 95% of players reach agreement before this point. You can run your mouth about the Mets all you want but the fact is the Braves and Mets both won as many games in the regular season and post season last year.
No I’m not dummy, I’m saying dumb people like yourself, ask why teams take guys to arb in their first year when it costs the team millions down the line. They ask stupid things like why fight over 100k? I sit in on arbitration hearings on a yearly basis and I’m much smarter than you meat.
Anyone that has to tell people how smart they are are usually really dumb. Save millions and lose top 5 to 10 pitcher in game is real smart.
How exactly are they going to lose him smart guy? Man you’re dumb. You’ve bought into this ridiculous concept that paying a guy a few million extra in arb somehow keeps the player happy so he cuts you a great discount and stays with you in free agency. No here’s going to take the money. This is how mlb works and you have zero idea trying to tell me I don’t understand. Buffoon.
Are you willing to bet that Fried will be a Brave after 2024? I’m willing to bet he will not be. I don’t know if you realize calling names just makes you sound like your grasping for straws and you obviously don’t believe what you are saying. But keep it up, it really drives your point home.
Nah, I’m sure he understands that it’s just business. I highly doubt that going to arbitration will affect his decisions going forward. He just wants the longest and richest deal he can get, and that’s via free agency. However, he is risking injury, and for a pitcher that’s a significant concern. He’s at Carlos Rodon money now – possibly more due to Rodon’s injury history – and it may only go up from there, assuming continued good health & production.
Just because you don’t see him signing an extension doesn’t mean there’s not been talk. AA is not Steve Cohen using Twitter to forecast his hopes and dreams. That being said, arb process is business.
Old York: If Max Fried or any other player WANTS to stay w their team, then they should be able to work out an extension. It’s not dependent on the the team “letting them go”. It’s a COMBINATION of about how many MILLIONS of dollars is the team WILLING to spend on a given player AND how many MILLIONS is the player going to SETTLE for.
I’d contend it’s actually the other side of the coin. They’ve likely tried locking him up long term and he’s played the “maximize earnings at all costs/risks/team detriment” game which is counter to what all the big extension guys have done. Hard to argue team first concept then overpay one guy because he wants to be paid while forgoing the apparent company ethos.
So, they haggle him over what seems to be nickles and dimes because he wants to go 1 yr at a time right into the earliest UFA scenario and then sell himself to the highest bidder. Which I’d guess will be His hometown Padres.
This one belongs to the Reds
Surprised he lost.
I’m not. Hard to get more than a 2x raise in arb, no matter how good you are. Don’t blame him for trying, but it wasn’t likely.
Thats a way to motivate your ACE to wanna stay. All these other Top SPs are getting 35-45m, and the Braves penny pitch on $1.5m wow
What player gets 35-45m 2 years before becoming a FA for their first time?
Shohei Ohtani is a year younger and also has one less year of MLB service time than Max Fried. Ohtani garnered a $30MM ‘arb’ contract with the Angels one year out from his free agency. The two-way superstar will not just break the bank but also shatter it with his next contract assuming he doesn’t damage anything else this season.
That is not a valid comp, tho Arson. Ohtani is a unicorn.
I don’t understand everybody’s fascination with Ohtani. I understand the talent but if he gets hurt that is not only an important arm in your rotation but a big bat in the line up that needs to be replaced.
What’s the fascination? His elite 2-way play makes him more useable. For ex: he had TJ surgery 10/1/18, but still played as DH in 106 of 162 games in 2019 for a 2.5 bWAR — while rehabbing. If you consider that mid-order hitters and front-line pitchers are the two most overcompensated player-positions, you have someone that can provide an elite levels for both (when healthy) at any one time, effectively clearing up a roster spot you can devote to somewhere else that many other teams don’t have the luxury.
Add in the fact that he’s an all-around nice-guy that wants to ascend to greatness and is doing things we haven’t seen since Babe, in a very different game, and I’d argue that if anyone is worth that kind of money — Shohei the money!
The commenter I replied to said “player”, not pitcher or two-way star or even “unicorn”. Last I checked Shohei Ohtani, as great as he is, is still an MLB player.
I wish DTR was here because he’d explain perfectly how arb works. It’s stupid to think he deserves 15mil this year during arb.
Best Screenname Ever
Guys getting 35-45 aren’t comps. Not how the system works. You have to read up on how the arbitration system works under the content to comment whether a decision is reasonable or not.
Atlanta may regret fighting over a 1.5 million difference. Fried will remember and will leave when his chance comes.
He won’t care about that. He’ll care that the Braves pay him market rate. No indication they will.
No indication they won’t either.
H E Pennypacker
Ask the shareholders.
There are tons of indications that they won’t. You are just being naive.
Best Screenname Ever
Doesn’t work that way at all. His agent knew the comps and which comp the Club would rely upon and which one(s) he’d push. Without doubt he knew he stood a reasonable chance of losing. If the player wanted to stay with the Braves and if the Braves make a winning FA offer, he’ll take it. This changes nothing.
Austin Riley lost his arbitration hearing last year then signed an extension 5 months later.
Riley’s from Mississippi, Fried is from the west coast. Much as I hate to see him leave, he’ll do like Freeman ans Swanson and follow the money – and try to get home.. He’ll need to “pull a Maddux” to resign with the Braves .
The Braves have been trying to sign a long term deal with him but it’s clear they won’t do it unless it’s team friendly.
He went to arbitration hearings last year over $225K and won the hearing. $1.5MM with additional years remaining is big enough to go to a hearing, every single time. It means $5 to $8MM over the remaining years and affects all future generations of arb eligible players.
The Braves have literally signed more long term deals with their guys than any other team. Ever.
Weird reaction to what is clearly a team exception rather than a philosophy or pattern.
Best Screenname Ever
The internet is home to the ‘pay them any number they can say with a straight face’ crowd, so one doesn’t take seriously the criticisms here.
Bleu, it really is a philosophy or pattern for teams to arbitrate over seemingly small amounts. I checked that link out about the 2015 MLBTR arbitration story. Apparently, by 2015 all of the front offices felt it was their “responsibility” to contest somewhat minor differences in order to hold down payroll in the long haul. It’s just an industry wide philosophy when clubs want to maintain a certain pay scale.
That is the definition of collusion
Steeler, I sort of had the same thought but it isn’t the same. Collusion is when all the other teams either refused to make an offer or less than what your original team is offering. It really applies to free agents more than arbitration controlled players. At least that’s how I see it. The collusion case happened quite awhile ago and I can’t remember all the specifics.
Max got Fried
More like snubbed honestly.
His surname is pronounced FREED which is exactly what he will be from the Braves in two years or less as a free agent or in a trade.
Fried is gone after 2024. He isn’t taking the Atlanta discount they got other guys to take.
Max Fried? More like Max Incinerated
Very poor decision by Atlanta…a proven good pitcher like Fried you don’t insult for just pennies in the present market … You are just telling him “We don’t care much about you, you’re dispensable”
Is that what they told Austin Riley also before he signed a huge long term deal with them?
Riley is not a good comp. The situations are similar only in that both play play for the Braves. We’ll definitely not see an extension like Riley’s for Fried, and seriously doubt we’ll see any extension for Fried at all.
It’s not a good comp because it’s pours water on your fire. This is how the Braves always do things.
Yes, I guess I’m missing that simplistic point of view that if it happened once with one guy, it should happen with another.
The point you’re missing is that this is how the Braves operate. Maybe they’ve already offered him a contract and he said no? Maybe he’s made it known he plans to go out west once he’s a FA? Or maybe, just maybe, none of us know for sure because neither party wants us to know?
I did not miss the point that this is how the Braves operate. I know this is how the Braves operate. But just because one thing happened with one Braves player doesn’t mean it’s going to be the same for every Braves player.
One guy is a position player, who was 25 when extended, in his first year of arb, 5 years away from free-agency. The other is a pitcher, 29, and 2 years away from free-agency. They aren’t a good comp.
The way the Braves operate is to either sign a guy to a team-friendly extension, or let him go when he’s a FA. Does Fried appear to be willing to sign a team-friendly extension at this point?
And just because one thing happened with another player doesn’t mean it will happen with Fried. Every situation is different. You think Fried is gone because they don’t have an extension yet because…. absolutely no reason.
I’ve been saying just because something happened with one player doesn’t mean it will happen to another, over and over in multiple posts. Now you post the same thing like it’s an original thought.
Everybody knows that almost all extensions have to happen before a guy gets too close to free-agency. I had Braves fans disagreeing with me when I said I thought Dansby was not re-signing for that same reason. I admit, an extension could still happen, but it has to be soon. Otherwise guys will want to see what their market value is.
I never said Fried will not sign an extension. I don’t think he will for a couple reasons. The Braves can tear up a contract, whether it’s for $13.5M, or $15M, if an extension is agreed to, so why go to all that trouble. And I think Fried is close enough to free-agency not to see what his value is.
But, my saying the Braves signing Riley to an extension, after an arb team win, is not the same as Fried maybe signing one, does not preclude Fried still signing one. Those are two different things.
I’ve got nothing against the Braves. The problem with too many fans is they take any disagreement with how their team operates as a personal attack on that team.
Riley didn’t go to arbitration with the Braves twice. The Braves offered Riley a huge contract before arbitration number 2. They did not for Fried. Their situations are not comparable at all.
No reason? Fried wants top dollar every year and the Braves don’t pay top dollar. Pretty significant reason.
All players want top dollar every yr and no team wants to offer it, he xe the reason for the hearings
That’s not true at all. A large majority of players and teams never go to arbitration. Less then ten made it to hearings last year.
Are you a Braves fan? You don’t know how they handle these situations, obviously. This is their standard protocol for arbitration.
You have to be a Braves fan to know how their protocol works? A vast majority of even Braves arbitration eligible players don’t make it to a hearing either. The ones that get to this point are as good as gone.
The Big Yo
4 years 15mil a year over Verlanders contract right now. Easy. Shame on the Braves. After this loss in Arb expect a few teams to ask questions and turn heads. Yankees would be perfect for him
Hope he pitches for Israel in the WBC.
deGrom Texas Ranger
Good riddance! The fool way overplayed his card. I expect uneducated and uninformed rants about how his free agent value is higher. Atlanta should have filed even lower since they probably aren’t going to keep him anyways. I’d have gone for 11-12 and still expected a win over his ridiculous filing. MLBTR greatly overprojects and only had 12.2 here. Both sides were stupid here.
I expected this ridiculous rant, and you didn’t disappoint.
He didn’t overplay anything. Arbitration doesn’t work in a vacuum. He had an outstanding season and asked for a number in an attempt to set a new bar. If he wasn’t going to take the Braves number there was no harm in aiming high. This isn’t the payday contract.
And of course his free agent value is higher. When teams can bid against each other the price goes up. Why would the Braves file lower though and risk losing the case?
Kershaw, then Fried. Next great Dodger lefty HoFer’s
Damn you just skipped urias huh wa sup with that
The question no one is addressing is does Fried want to be tied to a long term contract or is his whole goal is to get to FA and get a 10 year big time contract? Atlanta has been tying up a LOT of player to long term contracts and some buying out arbitration years. Fried has thrown 2 back to back years of 28+ starts. He only had one before and was often injured.
I don’t see Atlanta treating him differently than the others. The only reasonable conclusion is he wants a mega contract. If current trend holds he is going to get it but he looks to be taking a gamble based on his health history a few years ago.
Zero chance Fried gets a “10 year big time contract” as a FA. He’ll be 31 when he hits free agency. Best case will be 5-6 years and if there have been extension talks I’m sure that is one of the biggest hang ups. I can’t see the Braves wanting to buy out anymore than 4 FA years (until she’s 35) and I don’t blame them. Also can’t blame Max for wanting more.
He wants to go back west
Fully expect the Braves to deal him next offseason
Morton’s money will be off the books
Soroka & Anderson will be reestablished
Strider & Wright will be a year older hopefully a year better
Fried will replenish the farm & hopefully bring back a young LF prospect.
While I think other have mentioned he won’t get 10, your premise is 100% accurate otherwise. Fried will be a bit older than many position players hitting their first free agent period. Chances are that it will be his only ‘BIG’ contract.
Fried is risking an injury derailing his career, but in current age those are fewer and fewer. Even if he does have an injury he might be back before FA anyway, and possibly stronger. It’s still a risk, but probably not worth locking himself down for a reduced amount.
In other words, his situation is vastly different than others the Braves have extended. Only Swanson really comes close due to his age. I respect both the Braves and Fried for maintaining their lines. With probably 4-6 big money teams as well as a couple medium teams possibly willing to splurge for a ‘get them over the top’ piece, Fried will probably command more than the Braves are willing to spend. In that regard, I would respect the Braves if they tried to moved him in the next year or two, even if they are in the hunt. I would hate losing him, but you shouldn’t lose him for what amounts to nothing like they did with Swanson., especially if they have better depth at SP than they did at SS.
Hope he can pitch for Israel
in the WBC.
Max’s window to get an extension closed two years ago. I’d love to see the Braves re-sign him, but they aren’t going to give any 8 year deals for $240-$300M.
He’s a California kid, and I could easily see him go to one of the west coast teams. Giants and Dodgers being 2 main players.
Commenters here are probably more offended than Fried. It’s just business.
Anyone that thinks business isnt personal is lying. Business is very personal. I’ve yet to see a human being that hasn’t taking it personal.
To sum up this thread, its just business folks, nothing to see here.
This was the arbiters sticking a giant fork in the road.
I think we can all reasonably agree that Maximus is well worth the $15 that he asked for.
We can also probably agree that splitting hairs over $1.5 for a player the caliber of Max seems totally asinine, and that’s where all this vitriol is coming from I think. But, this is the process. It’s the way it is, and the arbiters obviously weren’t looking to change any precedent for Max, as good as he may be.
Either way Fried’s goodwill toward Atlanta just went down a lot. And since they count on people giving them a hometown discount …
I’m a casual fan. But it feels like a 6-year/$150 M deal could do it. If not, we either take the remaining two years or focus on the trade deadline, depending on the contention status.
I think if Max keeps pitching like he has, then after 2024 he’ll get a minimum of 8/240, and probably a lot more.
H E Pennypacker
That’s the high end imo, but minimum $200M.
15 mil is a steal. Max is a bonafide ace. That arbiter is just plain wrong!
Although I understand what your point is, and generally speaking it isn’t wrong, I believe you’re comparing ace numbers for this arb player to free market players’ value, the results of which are going to be incongruent. The best way to see how his player arb value matches up is to match his value against other arb-level “aces” or whatever terminology you prefer (but guys that compare statistically). I think you will find this is in the expected range for his arb, perhaps even a little higher.
Now, I don’t disagree with it if he made $15MM either because he’s excellent and MLB (and arbitrators) must set that value through these hearings. But, I don’t believe this to be the extreme that it seems on face value.
I really think braves fans are the most clueless of fanbases. Thoughts?
I bet the short bus you ride has the cleanest windows. =}
I bet short bus you ride has the cleanest windows. =}
H E Pennypacker
SalaryCap you posted the same thing twice… I suppose you could have fallen out of the back of the short bus!
Damn it! I can’t even lie and say it was the double post glitch!
I didn’t fall out the back. Im holding onto the windshield wipers. =D
H E Pennypacker
H E Pennypacker
Nervous Braves fans losing their minds here.
Not nervous, just resigned. We lost Freddie and Dansby, and after 2024 we’ll lose Max. That’s just the way it is.
Interesting Freeman, Swanson and potentially Fried. Star players only seem to want to stay in Atlanta if they are willing to sign team friendly extensions. I guess it’s good for the rest of the league, Dodgers and Cubs feel good about it! If a team can’t sign its top stars, it doesn’t seem like they want to run with the big dogs.
Yeah, Tampa Bay is terrible. I mean, they never go to the playoffs.
I’m so disappointed about Fried. He’s my favorite player. But, this is where the business side of baseball breaks the heart of the fan side of the sport. I don’t have any hard feelings though. He shouldn’t feel like he has to leave money on the table so ownership can have more.
Losing an ace is never easy to absorb. Braves fans, enjoy having Fried in the line up while you can.
“Would anyone have bet Fried would win his arb case if they knew that no player had won back to back cases in the last 4 years?” (Fried won last year.) Something I read earlier today…………
The fixation on the $1.5M misses something. Most teams that avoid arbitration find some middle ground. The $1.5M is the max (no pun intended) amount over the Braves offer. Would Fried have would turned down a $14.25M offer, the mid-point of the two figures, if one was made? Or was the Braves’$13.5M their last best offer, making any middle ground deal moot?
Fried is definitely worth $15M, but there was no way he was going to win. How big of a raise, from the previous year, is a factor, and Fried was asking for a raise more than double last season’s arb winning salary. Also, for some reason, not many players win back-to-back arb cases. And with Fried winning it last season, along with the big ask, he should have known he was never going to win.
They should let him hit the open market while making the most of the time they still have him. If he were going to sign a team friendly deal it would’ve happened already. They have a good bit of money committed long-term and need to protect their financial flexibility because holes are gonna open up here and there as time goes along and you don’t always want to be stuck trying to sign a bunch of guys like they are in LF hoping it works out(I think Rosario will do fine btw). Paying for huge contracts goes against the operating procedure. They are doing something smart in Atlanta and need to stick to the plan.
Granted Olsen’s deal was big but not as big as lots of these deals. But I think he’s different than a pitcher as he contributes everyday and is less risky. But they can’t sign many guys like this while spreading around the money to all these young players and still be able to fill the holes that come along over time.
They’ll trade him this year. Atlanta has no problem developing pitchers
H E Pennypacker
…until they do
St. Louis would be a good trade partner, they have a lot of prospects and a middle of the pack payroll, they have a few bucks to spend. They should trade and extend him and Flaherty, take a look at Giolito next year. They only have 1 pitcher (Matz) in their rotation in 2024.
I doubt they trade him at all. That’s not AA’s MO. Even if the team cratered, they’d keep him.
Add into that he’s the Braves ace and they fully intend (and will do so) on competing for a World Series championship, perennially. They’ve also demonstrated their willingness to spend this year in order to achieve that end (although wisely and within certain constraints).
I highly doubt they trade him, but I’ve been wrong before.
The arbitration process in baseball is an absolute joke. He’s clearly worth more than both the 13.5 and 15 mil filings lol. Dudes worth more like 25-30 mil per year
The arbitration process is better than what existed before. It’s like in the military when they instituted “Don’t ask/Don’t tell”. Now-a-days people criticize that policy, but before that, a soldier had to tell if asked, and he was court-martialed if he said yes and court-martialed if he said no and was found lying. Progress.
He’ll make that on the FA market; then you and the rest of the people here can be happy for him and pound your chest about how morally superior you are to people. I’ll never understand why people care so much about how much they’re paid. None of us know him personally and aren’t connected to him in any way. I’m beginning to think this is a mindset about sticking it to the owner or something. Being a rich billionaire doesn’t mean you’re automatically immoral or don’t care about people. The players who are millionaires don’t need any sympathy, either.
I’ve lost some respect for the Braves’ front office over the past year or so. I didn’t like how they handled Freddie’s FA situation at all, or moving Trey Turner like they did. And now, letting Swanson walk away in free agency. Not only was I shocked but it no longer feels like the same team to me. I totally get it that your team needs to stay young but I feel that the team also needs a mix of experienced veterans to mentor these kids and keep them grounded. I also understand the money aspect, but for MLB owners, money should not be the end all, be all. And I’m not at all comparing them to Steve Cohen. I genuinely respect the Braves team, but it’s their FO that I feel doesn’t do the right thing by the players who spill their hearts out for their team and garners them the results they were looking for, yet they go to arbitration over mere pennies. It definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Trea Turner was a Nat, not a Brave. AA is very disciplined and has a price he’s willing to pay, and if the player wants more than that, he’ll become a FA.
Not disagreeing with you at all. That’s why Fried is good as gone.
These moralist arguments are always a laugh. No one feels bad for not offering more millions to already millionaires. Only folks who want to feel good about themselves make these stupid statements. Would you be upset if Leonardo Dicaprio wasn’t getting paid enough for a Netflix deal? LOL. Go punch air Mets fan.
Insane comments on here. Freeman’s agents bungled the deal with the Braves. Swanson is good but not 25 mil per good when you’re dominant tool is the glove. AA has level he will go beyond that he lets the guy explore the market and circle back. Chipper said it best, “If you want to be a Brave you will be a Brave”. During his career he left cash on the table to stay in Atlanta. I don’t begrudge them for taking the money, but playing at Truist in front of Braves Country is legit. Can’t wait till the home opening series. I will be there ready to Chop for theses 2023 Braves! Chop On