2:35pm: Matt Gelb of The Athletic reports that Pache will need surgery on his knee.
1:01pm: The Phillies announced that they’ve placed outfielder Cristian Pache on the 10-day IL with a torn meniscus in his right knee and recalled outfielder Dalton Guthrie.
It’s a tough break for a young player who was enjoying a nice run with the Phillies, batting .360/.360/.600 through 26 plate appearances this season. Sure, it’s a small sample size but for a former top prospect who’d struggled to take off in the big leagues it was a promising start on a new team. The Phillies haven’t outlined the next steps for Pache, but Andrew Velazquez required surgery to repair a torn meniscus at the back end of last season and that came with a six-to-eight week recovery.
The Phillies acquired Pache from Oakland in exchange for Billy Sullivan at the end of Spring Training. One of the key pieces in the Matt Olson deal between Atlanta and Oakland, Pache had struggled with the A’s, hitting just .166/.218/.241 with three home runs in 260 plate appearances. That did come with his usual excellent defense in center, as Pache put up seven Outs Above Average for Oakland last year, but clearly it wasn’t enough to make up for the batting line.
Quality defense and poor offense has been the story of Pache’s career to date, as the former top-100 prospect struggled in a handful of games with the Braves prior to his move to Oakland. While it’s far too early to suggest he’d turned a corner in Philadelphia, it was a promising start and given his excellent outfield defense even a small uptick in offense from his previous seasons could make him a valuable player.
With Pache out, the Phillies will add Guthrie to their big league roster. Guthrie was slashing .278/.380/.481 with two home runs this year at Triple-A. The sixth round pick in 2017 made 14 appearances for the Phillies last year, hitting .333/.500/.476.
That really sucks. Textbook case of Quinnitis.
Crazy year for the Phillies…..
Making a WS run starting Jake Cave? Surely they jest.
Have you heard of a guy named Harper?
DD will make the necessary adjustments.
The great Kevin Long seemed to fix Pache’s bat. This sucks. Injury bug biting hard.
Under another article yesterday some kid assumed that a team had insurance on an injured ballplayer.
There are injuries reported on here at least a dozen times a day. Some of them go in a week or two or a month or two; some last longer. No way in the world any insurance companies actuarial department will had over statistical studies to underwriters that would cover anything shorter than a one year injury and would require astronomical premiums to break even.
And for all the kids on here (and many of the writers) that think that Gross Revenue minus payroll equals money the the billionaire owners pocket….. I can only imagine the premiums MLB teams have to pay to keep medical insurance on their players. Going to top doctors and hospitals is outrageously expensive.
I wrote it earlier – success this season will be determined by which teams stay the healthiest. And that sucks. Have been watching MLB for over 65 years. Even 30 years ago no one would have foreseen the current medical epidemic in the sport that has been accepted as the new normal. The injuries, the 3 outcomes (K, W. HR) and the outrageous length of games can all be attributed to the analytic revolution taking hold in all FO’s around the early 2000’s. It won’t change, it’s only going to continue to get worse.
I’m already on life support as a fan…doubt I’ll last the season. Truth be told – most of the MLB teams I’ve see this year out-and-out stink. Think I’m just an old guy saying “get off my lawn”? No. They stopped the shifts. How much have BA’s gone up? They added safety features around the walls and on the field. Have injuries gone down?
Met a guy at the elevator in his 20’s the other day that had a Pirates cap on. Asked if he rooted for the team. He told me no, the yellow on the cap matched his shirt. Said that MLB was a circus and he’d lost interest in it years ago. (He was a minority if that matters.)
I hope the best for him but tbh his performance more than likely is flukish. He couldn’t hit .200 with Atlanta or Oakland in a way larger sample size, he hasn’t drawn a walk yet if I remember correctly and OBP and plate discipline were never his forte even when he was a top prospect. I would be shocked if he ever has an WRC+ over 80. He has some value for sure, but, his value is in his defense and speed. Personally, I wouldn’t put stock in his small sample this year. We can wish the best for him and I hope I’m wrong, but I’d be willing to wager a very large amount of money saying he goes back to being a terrible hitter.
It’s no fluke. It’s Kevin Long.
Long is a good hitting coach, not a miracle worker. Anyone can hit for 15 games, I watch tons of Phillies games and it’s not like every player they acquire they suddenly fix. He couldn’t fix the insanely talented Castellanos who actually has a long track record of success. If he’s had an ops over .700 in 50 games played then I’ll believe it and owe you an apology, I just don’t see that as realistic.
Castellanos has a .878 OPS so far this season. Brandon Marsh, who was another great glove/no bat CF when Philly got him from the Angels, has a 1.065 OPS. I take Venmo.
Castellanos has a .878 OPS so far this season. Brandon Marsh, who was another great glove/no bat CF when Philly got him from the Angels, has a 1.065 OPS.
Seeing the Phillies pre and post Kevin Long, I have to disagree with you. Marsh is the greatest example. The guy wasn’t hitting with the Angels. He starts working with Kevin Long and he’s been unreal for a sustained period of time.
Like I said, small sample size, Castellanos was a dumpster fire last year but we are judging his sample size by 19 days? Tbh I do have more hope for him because he was a really good player in the past. Marsh was bound to break out, the Angels gave up on him way to quickly and would have probably broke out with anybody. Players that have an OPS under 500 in a large sample size very very rarely become above average hitters in the majors, especially when they didn’t necessarily rake in the minors and have horrific plate discipline. There is a big in putting up an ops from .600-.700 and .450 in your first large sample at the plate. It blows my mind that you guys seriously think that all of a sudden he has become this good hitter after less than 50 plate appearance. I don’t draw conclusions that a player all of a sudden is great or sucks from such a tiny amount of time.
Well that’s not quite what I said. Pache is a 4th OF at best. I’m not necessarily saying he would’ve hit at the same clip. But there’s no doubt in my mind that Kevin Long drastically improved his swing and approach.
A guy like Castellanos, who already had sustained success, isn’t going to change his approach based on a hitting coach.
Ok, it seems I misunderstood you, I believe Kevin Long could help him figure something out but like you said I view him as a 4th outfielder as well. If he could just put up an OPS+ of like 75 or 80 he could stick around the League for a good while as a Kevin Kiermaier type. My apologies for the miscommunication.
No need to apologize, but thanks for the polite conversation! I agree with the Kiermaier comp.
PLEASE TAKE IKF OR AARON HICKS. THANKS!
IKF seemingly plays a decent CF. I’m sure there’d be takers for a gold glove caliber IF, who can also cover all 3 OF positions capably.
Tough break for the kid, Pache, and right when he was getting a little playing time. At least it happened in the bigs and not minor leagues, so at least he gets big league pay and service time during his recovery.
Yes, I’m sure that’s why fans like you follow the sport.
Dis you ever look into why there are so many injuries in what is supposed to be a “non-contact sport”?
Samuel woke up extra miserable today
Not only extra miserable but borderline incoherent. Multi- paragraph responses that seem to have little to do with the topic he’s responding to. But at least we all know 1) how long he has been watching baseball 2) how many years ago he mentioned something about something baseball related 3) How much more he knows than everyone else 4) his hatred for stats 5) MLB is not rotisserie baseball.
Samuel said he’s on life support as a fan. I call dibs on pulling the plug.
Vince Ferragamo's Dog
Samuel needs a hug n a hobby
Weird comment buddy
Agree with Samuel. Statements pretending to moralize is really cringeworthy. These players aren’t part of the downtrodden. But, I guess if it makes you feel good about yourself than all the power to you.
So you could never feel any level of sympathy for someone who makes a solid amount of money? Kinda odd.
Hey internet doctors….So torn meniscus?
What does that usually require? And how long is the recovery time? ty.
Jiminy Cripen, the Phillies just suffer one injury after another. Of course it also feels like the Yankees, Braves, and Mets have also had more than your average number of ILs. But since this is a Phillies thread I will bemoan the loudest for their poor health
the Phillies dont really have that many injuries. They have 3 meaningful ones, 2 of which should be back within the next month
Harper, Hoskins, Hall, Suarez, Painter, Bellatti, and now Pache are all significant.
That’s a super star, a middle-of-the-order 1B, that 1B’s replacement, and 40% of our starting rotation (one of whom is one of the top prospects in all of baseball). Bellatti and Pache are “minor” compared to those 5, but Bellatti was still a key member of our pen last year. And Pache was super helpful as both a defensive replacement, and a young guy who was raking to help offset the fact we’re on our THIRD STRING 1B.
We also narrowly avoided Walker and Sosa injuries (both taken out of games early for soreness), and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear if JT is playing through some pain. Not to mention some of our depth pieces being hurt like Marchan, Nelson, and Song.
The team is treading water admirably while some of those guys work their way back, and luckily we’ve had people like Marsh, Stott, Bohm, and Strahm step up in major ways. But to suggest their injuries haven’t been significant is silly.
As nice as Pache has been lately, he’s not really moving the needle on this team as the effective 5th OF.
Ace would state that there are 200 million reasons that Samuel tells the truth.
I’d agree with him.
Cristian Pache has around 175 million reasons to look forward to resuming playing in MLB.
I see what you did there – pretty clever. Still sad and not quite a decent troll job but at least you are trying to mix it up however slightly
Vince Ferragamo's Dog
U ever notice u nvr see DCartrow n Ace @same place @same time … hmnn
I didn’t think his bat would keep up, but he’s had some great defense. Amazing catch the other night.
Kevin Long is a miracle worker. I’ve been thinking Marsh’s bat was going to cool off since the trading deadline last season, but it hasn’t. Pache was swinging well. Ironically, it’s the big bats who aren’t hitting, but they’ll get hot in the coming months. Phillies are in a decent spot, which is a surprise considering they stumbled early.
What is the recovery time?