With the Blue Jays having been eliminated from the postseason last night at the hands of the Twins, Toronto is beginning to shift its focus toward the coming offseason. That includes left-handed slugger Brandon Belt, who yesterday expressed uncertainty regarding whether or not he’ll continue playing in 2024.
“I don’t know what I’m going to do,” Belt told reporters (including Keegan Matheson of MLB.com) following the club’s defeat in Minnesota last night. “This could be the end for me… I just don’t know yet. It’s something I need to talk to my family about and see what their thoughts are on it and see how I feel about it in a couple of months, then go from there.”
Belt, a veteran of 13 major league seasons, debuted with the Giants back in 2011, won World Series rings with the club in both 2012 and 2014, and made his only career All Star appearance back in 2016. 2023 marked the first season of his career he spent outside the Giants organization after he signed a one-year, $9.3MM deal to join the Blue Jays this past offseason. While the 35-year-old has been effective as ever at the plate in recent years, with a .258/.369/.503 slash line since the start of the 2020 season that includes a 138 wRC+ effort this year, the veteran has dealt with injuries more and more frequently in recent years.
Belt has been limited to just 278 games thanks to injuries over the last three seasons, which saw him wind up on the IL a whopping seven times with issues ranging from a fractured thumb to knee and hamstring issues. While Belt’s effectiveness at the plate would surely draw interest from a variety of clubs, particularly given the lack of impact bats available in free agency, given his age and injuries it’s understandable that the slugger wants to ponder his future before committing to a return.
Other pending free agents also spoke to reporters yesterday (including Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet), with lefty veteran Hyun Jin Ryu among them. Ryu just wrapped up the final year of his four-year, $80MM pact with Toronto. After kicking off his time with the Blue Jays by finishing as a finalist in AL Cy Young award voting during the 2020 season, Ryu posted roughly average numbers (4.37 ERA, 4.02 FIP) in 2021 before missing most of the 2022 and 2023 seasons thanks to Tommy John surgery.
Overall, the 36-year-old southpaw posted a 3.97 ERA and 4.02 FIP in 315 innings of work with the Blue Jays, including a 3.46 ERA across eleven starts this season after returning from surgery. Ryu confirmed to reporters yesterday that he hopes to continue pitching in MLB in 2024, and even in a deep free agent class for starting pitching options, it seems reasonable to expect Ryu to find a big league deal somewhere. While the veteran’s injury history is fairly lengthy, he’s been effective when healthy since debuting with the Dodgers back in 2013, with a career 3.27 ERA and 3.53 FIP. That said, it would be reasonable to expect the veteran to be limited to one-year offers given his recent surgery and middling peripherals since returning back in August (4.91 FIP, 4.70 SIERA).
While the future of both Belt and Ryu in Toronto is currently up in the air, Sportsnet’s Shi Davidi did reveal one member of the Blue Jays who won’t be returning for 2024: longtime third base coach Luis Rivera, who is retiring after 11 years in the role with Toronto. After playing in the majors for 11 seasons, Rivera managed in the minor leagues for both Toronto and Cleveland before settling into his role as third base coach of the Blue Jays.
The city of Toronto knows the feeling of being ousted from the playoffs far too well.
As a Yankees fan I’m going to steal attention away from you and say I know that feeling way more than you.
Good.
Joe Maddon
Yeah, sure, Mr. 27 rings.
Well they went through a phase of buying the best before developing their own. What teams have been successful these days “buying the best”?
29 of 30 managers keep him in the game
28-30 Bruce Bochy just pulled Andrew Heaney in the 4th. Unreal. Fire Bochy!
Wow twins keep the starter in to face Alvarez a second time and bang, 3-0 game over. Losing the conventional way the fans want. Losing is still losing.
Wrong Luis Rivera is linked.
“Analytics” is overthinking and outsmarting yourself, trying to script and win the game, hours before the game has even started.
mlb fan;
Yes, that’s Mark Shapiro’s frame of reference.
He’s never understood putting together elite baseball teams.
Or I have an elite performance in progress, let’s pull him!
Every team and every game in history has been scripted. It can be overdone, as it was with Berrios, but any good manager should know every possible match-up prior to the game.
“Analytics” is essentially always thinking you are the smartest guy in the room. and know more about baseball than guys who have spent their wholes lives in the game.
Analytics have been used in every sport since we were counting with stones. It is just a fancy word for trying to quantify every players’ weaknesses and strengths.
Yes Joe;
But since the Moneyball phase – long out of date – analytics has been overdone. Many FO people and some managers now use
it as an excuse for making bad decisions.
This kind of post is so old and tiresome.
Samuel, if analytics have been overdone, why is it that franchises who embrace analytics are the ones who consistently make the playoffs and win titles? Astros, Dodgers, Red Sox are all analytically driven.
There’s this perception that old school managers like Bochy and Dusty don’t embrace advanced data but Bochy won three titles while doing so.
The last regime without modern analytics was Dave Stewart in Arizona, His track record speaks for itself.
analytics has been overdone.
=======================
Some of it is poor decision-making, like Berrios, and even that could be understood in the L/R reference. If this was even just two innings later, it wouldn’t even be a discussion.
But just like with every other model, some folks will develop better analytics. And some will develop worse models. Or just as important, you have to marry analytics with development. There will always be a human element, but GMs will still be looking at rotations, pix mix, velocity, etc.
@myaccount2
There are exactly 0 teams that do not embrace analytics.
Every team that consistently misses the playoffs also embraces analytics.
I’ve never seen Dusty do anything during a game except change his toothpick so unless he’s pouring over his laptop prior to the game don’t think he gives a hoot about analytics….both he and Bochy trust their eyes more than statistics that have been created to make a sows ear, look like a silk purse….sound ancient but true……analytics should play second fiddle always to what your eyes tell you about how a player plays the game day in and day out…..analytics come to bear when its arbitration or contract negotiation time by both sides…..
Joe, success Eans trusting your eyes about how a player plays the game day in and day out….analytics is an outgrowth of Moneyball and exactly how many titles and how’s that working out for the A’s these days…..how many titles….
@sadler- The key word is “embrace.” Every team has an analytics department, that is well known; however, some teams are half-hearted in their analytics approach, such as the Rockies, whose front office is finally upgrading its analytics department but has steadfastly maintained it won’t dictate all their decision making. There are still some managers like Snitker–who has publicly said he doesn’t let analytics influence his in-game decisions–who do not “embrace” analytics.
That’s much different than teams like TB, BOS, and LAD who accept and utilize analytics from top to bottom. Some embrace analytics, some do the bare minimum, and some are in-between. But every franchise does not appreciate analytics equally.
myaccount2;
Analytics has been a major part of MLB for 20 years now. Every single team uses it. It’s no different than using computers in business. It’s a part of running the business.
Obviously some businesses will do it better than others – the same that some do marketing, finance, service, etc. better than their competitors.
I like and admire the Astros, Orioles, Phillies, Dodgers and others that build a farm system, acquire and train players well, and contend for years at a time. But the key to their success is not just the use of analytics, it’s their ability to make the players they have under contract play better. Analytics is surely a part of it, but hardly the driving force.
Baseball is played on a field by players. FO’s and managers can’t shovel endless statistics into their heads. Winning teams have smart players that make sound split-second decisions on the field, and are prepared on what to do – depending on the game situation – if they’re involved in a play once the pitch is thrown.
Bochy just pulled his starter in the 4th. He ain’t gut anymore
Barrios is overrated anyway. FIP at nearly 4.00 this year and they send him out like he’s an ace.
Agreed. Was surprised they sent him out as a the Game 2 starter. After Gausman, I think they should have sent Bassitt, then Kikuchi for the possible Game 3.
Yes, Berrios was dealing before he got pulled, but I didn’t think he pitched like their 2nd best starter at all this year.
They don’t really have an ace, which is the main issue. It was okay having Berrios because that was the best they got.
Bellinger is the must add player this offseason. Let Chapman, Kiermaier and Merrifield walk, bring back belt if he decides he wants to play. Be willing to trade any prospect not named Tiedemann and if you don’t trust Berrios to pitch 2 times through the lineup trade him for a middle of the order bat
Which Bellinger are you signing; the guy who’s been bad for 3 of the last 4 years or the guy that just had a decent, bounceback season in 2023?
The guy who finally got healthy and showed why he was an mvp. He’ll be 28 years old next year
And as a Boras client, Toronto, if serious about pursuing, better be ready for a demand by Boras of a $200 million+, 6-7 year contract demand for his services…….
I would say this year for Bellinger was more than decent.
Mystery13;
Right.
Give out a 6-10 year $200m-plus deal to a guy with an injury history to get over the top in 2024 – because he’s coming off a great walk year.
Are you AJ Preller? Brian Cashman?
Yeah he’s prone to having his shoulder dislocated by Kike Hernandez and his leg fractured by Reymin Guduan. So he definitely has to stay out of games with either of these guys.
Freak injury that the team rushed him back from. A CF who can play either corner and first base as well. Keeps the team defense stable in the outfield.
You are also aware that a team can trade a contract down the line right?
Somebody has to WANT the contract, otherwise you are stuck with it.
Anyone who gives a pitcher more than a 3 year deal or a position player more than a 5 year deal is asking for trouble, and I would only do that if they didn’t have an injury history.
Most teams in baseball can’t afford to miss on a big contract.
Someone wanted Vernon Wells contract.
Samuel doesn’t watch the games. He doesn’t know how he got injured.
Which big contract needs to be moved? With Ryu and Chapman off the books, the only even somewhat questionable contract is Springer and he’s still contributing at a decent level.
@ this one belongs to the reds…
I really like Joey Votto. A really intelligent thoughtful guy.
Sincerely.
Remind us please of how much post season impact his more recent 10 year $200 million contract has had for the Reds.
Two wild card appearances.
Then you have Moose’s 4 year, $64 million deal.
Epic fail.
Imagine if that was for 10 years.
Nice response. You are right. Would really enjoyed Votto reaching a WS… Largely because the quotes would have been priceless .
Mystery13;
You are also aware that for a team to trade a bad contract down the line they have to cover some of the salary and/or include quality players to get another team to take that contract. Right?
And that’s not counting having to send a sub-standard player on the field for years because they’re paying him a large salary so they can’t afford to sit him down or send him to the minors.
What if Bellinger has another “freak” injury? Few companies insure ML players, and the premiums are expensive along with high deductibles.
The Dodgers got the most value out of Bellinger for the money they paid him. Cubs too. There’s a slim chance the next team that gives him along-term contract will.
Or they front load the contract and pay the player for his productive years.
Eating salary hasn’t been an issue for this team in the past.
What if, what if. Every player and signing is a what if
What is Bellinger has a Freak injury? You could say that about literally any player. If you use that as a reason not to do something you won’t do anything other than 1 year deals.
As a RS fan, I agree that TO should pay Belli $200M.
The last part of your post was ridiculous. You should continue to watch the playoffs, you’ll see more teams use that strategy. Batters only seeing a pitcher once.
IMVHO, he pulled him too early. I think they could’ve gotten that matchup again in three innings, and have preserved the BP better. But the matchups were fine. He brought in a lefty to pitch to lefties.
The strategy was undone by a 3-2 walk, an infield single, and a single to shallow CF.
the problem for me is that Max Kepler still had an advantage over Lefties and the third hitter was Correa. so even if they don’t pinch hit for Kiriloff they still have an advantage for two thirds of the next 3 batters. Royce Lewis can’t run, so he wasn’t an issue. It was a bad call
Maybe when those pitchers get in trouble early, other than the Rays pulling Snell early and even then he got through the lineup twice, I can’t think of many other times that one of the teams top two pitchers doesn’t through the lineup twice when they are pitching well
Like I said, I think it was too early because you might be looking at RPs for the 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th innings before you get to the closer.
But just to repeat my mantra, the MLB OPSa the 3rd time thru the lineup is .782. The average RP has an OPSa of .717. There is a very significant advantage of using an RP instead of the 3rd time thru.
But it is not guaranteed to work, which is what most folks are looking for.
Jays will need to deal Tiedemann too. Thats how dire things are.
Thank goodness for Rivera retiring he made a lot of questionable decisions this year. Belt shouldn’t be back not good enough for a contending team’s primary DH. Ryu shouldn’t be back either jays have cheap options for 5 spot need a outfielder, 3rd basemen and probably a 2nd basemen that’s not better suited to be a utility player (Biggio, Espi and Whit ain’t it)
Not good enough for a contending dh? Wut lol. Most teams don’t want steady DHs. They need the spot to rotate players. Do you pay attention to current baseball? No ok.
That’s the dream situation but unfortunately the jays lineup wasn’t good enough to rotate guys through the DH slot. Do you pay attention to the blue jays or just an baseball gatekeeper
I’ve forgot more about baseball than you’ll ever know bigdaddy. By not rotating players through the DH you end up with injuries to your everyday players, see bichette bo
Again nice of you to basically invalidate others because you think your superior. Vlad is the problem on this team 1000% I agreed with you about dhing yet here you are still trying to invalidate what I said
TO had the #10 OPS at DH. I don’t think that is their problem.
Their problem was getting runs in. What’s the primary function of a DH? Cause belt other than hitting a couple solo shots and getting some long at bats didn’t do much
He drove in 19% of the baserunners he inherited. Chapman had 14%, Springer had 18%, Varsho had 16%. More importantly, he had the highest OPS on the team. you have a bigger problem with Vlad.
The fans seem to give Vlad a pass. The guy is quickly becoming the highest paid player and is treated like a baby and has had less playoff success than known choke artists of Toronto Austin Mathew’s, marner and nylander. If he was hockey player the media probably would ran out of town.
I expect Belt will be back if he can find a deal with a contender. He knows what winning is and his plate discipline alone is valuable.
Ya his 6 pitch at bat strike outs are huge pluses
He was the jays best hitter this year lol
Yes, way better then Bichette. What a stupid comment
Goalie guy I bet you think batting average is the most important stat right? Lmao. Stick to puck pal.
You’re saying Belt was a better hitter than Bo Bichette? That’s what you are implying with your comment to goalieguy. I will give you credit for being consistently bad with baseball opinions.
Depends what stat you use, but goalieguy is implying belt was the one of the worst and not close to bichette which is false since belt is higher in some categories. Rent free in your head still I see. Seek medical advice. You’re welcome for the education again.
Wrc+
Brandon belt 138
Bo Bichette 125
Belt was the best batter on team the entire year, this is statistical not really up for debate.
This stuff isn’t hard to look up, I think maybe check a stats page once in a while, especially before calling others stupid
Can you please explain which ways Bo was better than Belt?
Belt got on base more AND hit for more power.
Heck belt only had 1 less HR than Bo in 200 less ABs. Outside of striking out less, Bo did nothing at the plate better than Belt. What a sad state Jays fans are in.
Facts are hard for imbeciles like its_happening. This is what you get in society when you take bully’s out of schools. You can’t punch these little goofs in their head once to teach them a life long lesson.
Belt’s OPS+ was impressive but possibly skewed by smaller sample size as Bichette had about 230 more at bats. I would still expect that OPS+ to garner Belt significant interest in another one-year deal.
This is the typical big market team that Andrew Friedman once spoke about as: “Shoveling more and more coal into the engine, but the train doesn’t run any faster”.
The Jays have been trying to “Get over the top” for 3 years now by bringing in high-salaried vets. That crap never works. They need to get younger, but it’s going to be hard to move some of those contracts.
They also need a quality manager. They haven’t had one under Mark Shapiro. The only way he’ll allow one is if the owners step in. Shapiro has always been threatened by knowledgeable, veteran managers. He used them as advisors, fired them, then hired people he could give a break to and “groom”. Terry Francona was an outlier…..and no, Don Mattingly is not the answer.
I agree that the Jays have never had a manager under Shapiro that was championship caliber. That was called the day Montoyo was hired as well as the day Schneider was hired. There is an exception to this comment though, Schneider will be a very good manager in a few years. Unfortunately he is still learning at the major league level.
Vets are absolutely necessary to win, Gillick did it correctly[Morris, Molitor, Winfield, Henderson, Maldonado, Stewart]. What is needed is the right ones. Like AA did last year. For example, Belt had a good year, I called him to be quality depth , a 10-15 homer 30 RBI guy. But when Belt is batting 2nd in the order in a playoff series, that is a problem.
jimmertee;
Pat Gillick was the best MLB FO head of his generation. Did it for decades. In fact, if you go back you’ll see that Shapiro dragged his feet on extending Charlie Manuel as the manager in Cleveland (Charlie had been an exceptional hitting coach – among othera he developed Albert Belle, Manny Rameriz, and Jim Thome – all of whom gave Charlie credit for making them elite hitters. Charlie was promoted to manager by John Hart ). Manuel told Shapiro to extend him or fire him, and was fired in July of 2002. He went to the Phillies as an Assistant to the GM for a year or two, then was made manager for the 2005 season. Pat Gillick was hired after the 2005 season, and kept Charlie in place saying he was fine as a manger. Gillick restructured the Phillies. They got better each year with Charlie as manager and won the WS championship in 2008.
As far as Schneider becoming “a very good manager in a few years” – that doesn’t work for a team of veterans trying to get over the top (and from what I’ve seen of Schneider I don’t know why you’re making that comment).
Gillick always worked with a core of young veteran players and built around them. Who are the Jays core? Bichette? Guerrero Jr.? 2 Catchers? They haven’t developed any pitchers of note – all their starting pitchers came from other teams that were dumping their salaries. They did trade for a nice young player in Daulton Varsho last offseason. He regressed pretty badly in 2023. What’s Guerrero Jr.’s trajectory?
The Orioles and Rays are very good now, as well as young with loaded farm systems. The Red Sox have a nice core of youngsters and some in the high minors ready to come up – a new PoBO can get them past the Jays pretty easily in the next year or two.
MLB is a young man’s game. Older players get hurt more often and take longer to heal when they do.
Would not surprise me to see Shapiro fire Atkins. Need a scapegoat.
“Get over the top” for 3 years now by bringing in high-salaried vets.
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It’s getting closer to Preller territory. Of their top 11 salaries, 10 of them came from outside. That’s about $161M of outsiders, It feels a little bit like things are slipping away from TO. Their payroll has almost double since 2020 ($258M v $133M), but their winning % hasn’t improved much.
Joe;
They supposedly have a young 3B ready to promote, and maybe found a young 2B. But they really have no young pitcher of note. The one can’t-miss superstar they touted for years – Nate Pearson – seems to be a quality set-up guy when healthy, and at age 24 may work his way to a closer’s role.
I keep writing that teams winning in today’s MLB make the players they have under contract better as the year goes on. Most of the Jays guys are actually regressing. That’s not totally on the manager, coaches, or scouts. It’s on how the organization is set-up philosophically and who’s doing the quality control to assure personnel are getting better.
The Jays just keep on bringing in name veteran players on high salaries. Some get a bit better. Some get a bit worse. Few have been worth the salaries they’re getting the past 2-3 years. The cumulative effect is that the team has hit a wall and unless some changes are made they’ll follow the trajectory the Yankees took this year – veteran guys making too much money going through the motions.
As I noted above, there might be 4 Jays in the core that were developed in-house: Danny Jansen, Alejandro Kirk, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette. Of those, only one – Kirk – was signed after Mark Shapiro was signed as President of the Jays, and there may be some question about that as it was months after Shapiro was announced and he hadn’t put an organization in place yet.
Yes, the Jays traded prospects to get some of the overpaid veterans they have on the roster. I’m sure a few have worked out in the majors, but I can’t think of a star-type player that they developed to make one of those trades. It seems like teams were happy to dump those contracts in trade or through free agency.
This is a really bad FO that has the luxury of money to spend. That doesn’t work in MLB anymore due to the by-laws passed over the years. Ask the Yankees, Padres, this years Mets, etc.
The Jays actually hit the wall last year.
Ryu is good and a real competitor. Type of guy you’d want to have your back in a street fight
Wouldn’t mind seeing the Dodgers bring him back on a one-year deal.
Schneider was itching to pull him, and the way he speed walked to the mound to do it was almost comical. Then Chapman just misses a grand slam before grounding into a DP. From there the lineup just started swinging for the fences.
Their manager is a Twins sympathizer.
Man. I was trying to pull for Toronto because they’re a fun team and I don’t like Minnesota for a variety of reasons, but stupidity (Schneider pulling Berrios) is way worse than the Twins being cheap or the annoyance of the “Buxton is great when he’s healthy” narrative. Dumbassedness is worse than anything at all, so go Twins I guess
It was a dumb move but if you can’t win a game when your pitching staff lets in 2 runs that’s not on any pitching decision.
If Berrios went 8 and gave up 2 runs, what’s the difference, they took the long and dumb road to 2 ER runs but it’s still just 2 ER. Meanwhile Gray was piping fastballs middle middle and their offense couldn’t even get a run in
That also seems lost on everyone. If I told people before the series started the jays In two games would give up 5 runs total. Everyone would take that. Shouldn’t matter what pitching decisions were made if your pitching staff is averaging 2.5 era a game in the post season.
They remain the weird ass Minnesota Twins
Bellinger is a poison apple. He only worked hard and produce for the coming free agent year. Once he signs with someone, he’ll revert to his mediocre side of the game. Buyer beware!
🙁
Bellinger doesn’t even look good when you look at his contact data. It’s almost like he just had a very lucky season.
That must be it because, like, you know.
There are a number of peripherals that don’t support his numbers.
BABIP .319 v a career .285
EV 87.9 v a career 89.7
Barrel 6.1% v career 9.2
I normally wouldn’t be put off too much by these stats, but if I am signing someone to a huge contract, those stats, and the recent history are things I couldn’t ignore.
Hopefully the Yankees or Padres sign him.
No matter what contact he signs, it will be an overpay according to just about everybody who’s never signed anyone to a baseball contract. That’s one you can take to the bank and cash it.
As for recent history…
Yes Joe…..the Red Sox only go for winners with great numbers right!
I don’t know why anyone is shocked or surprised at the Jay’s year this year, This mess was called in Spring training. Just like Montoyo and Schneider are not championship caliber managers, Shapiro and Atkins are not championship quality executives. Period. That was called in 2015-16 when they were first hired.
One back-breaker this year was trading Moreno and Gurriel Jr for Varsho and that deal was called moronic at the time.
I liked some of the other Jays moves, like dealing Hernandez for Swanson even though Swanson was way overused and got hurt – thanks Schneider. Signing Bassitt and Kiermaier was brilliant. Trading for Hicks was a great move.
Another back-breaker was the organization not monitoring the fitness of Guerrero Jr, Manoah and Kirk. Being a big athlete is okay, being obese is not. I have always believed that Manoah has mental illness issues. Vladdy needs to get back to the fitness level he was at in his big year. He is 25 lbs over that.
It amazes me that the Jays still don’t use players correctly, like overusing Swanson or playing Pearson for more than one inning at a time. He is a one inning pitcher only. Merrifield looked burned out in the end as did Chapman at the plate.
There needs to be more changes in this organization than just a coach or two. For sure starting with whatever executive is leading the charge of mandating analytics that are plain stupid needs to find another job.
RYu is a 5th starter now, if that. Buyer beware.
You lose all credibility when you try and diagnose mental illness based on absolute ignorance
Mystery. Wait for it. It will eventually come out publicly.
It’s comical you think you’re knowledgeable enough to even comment on baseball which you know nothing about but you’re confident enough to comment on a player’s personal issues.
Not sure how Vlad dropping 25 lbs is going to help him much when he’s not playing in A and AAA stadium anymore.
He needs an entire new approach. The entire team had the lowest slg% against middle middle fastballs in mlb. That’s just not being ready to hit the fastball.
You’ll be one of the few that think Manoah isn’t having some mental struggles right now. It happens to a lot of people. Ignoring it won’t resolve it.
so which mental illness is he suffering from in your expert opinion with zero diagnosis
My GUESS is that he is suffering from some depression. It is not that unusual among the commoners. For a guy that was at the top of the food chain, and is now struggling for a roster spot, it would be surprising if he wasn’t depressed.
I’d also point to the weight gain as a sign of depression since people deal with depression in different ways.
oh yeah, so he just developed depression because he wasn’t pitching as well. you are pointing to weight gain as your example, like he hasn’t always been a big guy.
this is why commoners shouldn’t try to diagnose illness like they actually think they know what they are talking about.
A candidate for Chris Fetter’s Career Re-Imagining Center? Chris needs a veteran lefty coconspirator now that E-Rod will be on the move…
Time for the Blue Jays to blow it up and start over. They played pretend for a few years but reality should be setting in. Bichette and Gausman should both have quite a bit of trade value. Some team might even be foolish enough to give up assets for Vladdy Jr too
Vladdy Jr is a star that can be a superstar but he still doesn’t get it regarding fitness. Unfortunately he is still learning how to be a professional. He will eventually figure it out.
I think we saw the best of Vladdy Jr in 2021 and going forward he’s just going to be a good, not great player
Vladdy Jr is a star
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He could be, but he isn’t right now. If you take away his performances at Sahlen & TD Ballpark, both basically minor league parks, his career OPS might be around .800? For a weak-fielding 1B?
I agree. I hate it, but I agree. This team is not close enough to try adding one more piece, and the farm system is utterly devoid of talent. No way to do a partial sale and reload when your farm is barren.
They need to rebuild ground-up and aim for 2026.
Brandon Belt bring your giraffe self back to the bay. Player manager for the Giants and be the captain
Atkins needs to be fired. He went all defense no offense and failed again while spending big.
I would love for Ryu to come back home!
Berrios pull was a terrible move.
On the field and off.
Try signing a premium starter now with this FO.
Ever
Players sign where they make the most money. They don’t get paid in the playoffs anyway. Please cite the example of a player not signing with a team due to the way he was used in the playoffs? Provide YouTube links.
Players do not sign simply for the money and that’s well established. Countless players sign with a contender, and yes they do get paid for the playoffs.
YouTube links as a source? Good grief.
Good grief. Asking for proof of someone saying dumb. No they don’t get paid, they get a playoff share, which the players decide and it’s peanuts compared to what a free agent contract is. Don’t correct me again since you aren’t smarter than me and clearly don’t know anything that I don’t know about baseball.
“Don’t correct me again” who the hell do you think you are?
Someone’s who opinion is very important much more important than yours. You mad about something?
Simpletons trying to correct brilliant baseball minds like myself, who the hell am I. If you don’t you don’t watch baseball
Shapiro and Rogers continue the grand plan of new renovations. Team needs to sell tickets. A rebuild is out of the question which means full buy-in this offseason.
Assuming Cavan is the starting 2B, that leaves an OF bat, a 3B, a bullpen arm. Probably need 2 OF bats, but nobody wants Varsho to be a platoon player or 4th OF. Jays will need to consider trading their top prospects for one of these positions.
Reporters are stupid
The Blue Jays bet heavy on high character guys and it paid off. Making the post season is a huge victory. The collective team first attitude of Ryu, Belt, Kiermairer, Chapman and Merrifield will be impossible to replace.
If GM Atkins can patch this squad up, keep the positive culture, and be a relevant team again next year, then we need to start putting him in the conversation with other top executives like Dombrowski and Stearn.
No, Atkins will never be in a conversation of a top executive. If you want a top executive compare Gillick to Dombrowski to Anthopolous. Stearn or Atkins aren’t in the conversation.
Stearn and Atkins have proven they can over see a rebuild and make contenders on a limited budget. Dumbrowski is a get you over the top and then tear it down guy. Anthopolous is still hard to judge because he is with the Braves and they are a quality baseball factory. Gillick is an inner circle hall of fame GM with Theo. Atkins and Stearns could go up a level if they prove they can win a title. But there’s no question they are already high quality executives.
Atkins doesn’t believe in rebuild. That’s why he blew his chance in 2017 with many players. Causing problems they still feel today. Part of the blame is on ownership.
Jays took a slight step backward in 2023. Not enough character to overcome the holes on the team created by the front office.
The biggest hole isn’t the front office’s fault. It’s Vlad Guerrero being a mediocre first baseman. Time to move on from him – he’s not going to be the elite player we hoped when he was tearing up AA and AAA.
He’s a perfectly acceptable starter, but a playoff team can’t be running him out in the middle of the order.
Front office is absolutely at-fault. Not addressing holes on the field, not capitalizing on trading players at peak (or close to peak) value. This team’s faults do not rest on one player. It falls on the people who put the pieces together.
Vlad has his faults. He needs to learn how to run bases, play smarter, lose weight, be humble. And if you want him gone while his value decreases, and he ISN’T traded, will you continue to defend the front office for that decision? They control the team, not Guerrero.
Ok. Here’s a take from a diehard fan who cares little about hockey abd bleeds Jay Blue
1. Fire Schneider and the coaching staff minus Mattingly and Walker
Rumor has it , it wasn’t his choice to pull Berrios. So what?? Schneider doesn’t have the cohonas to stand up to his boss? He doesn’t have the heart to make the call he knows is right? Good riddance
2. Fire Atkins.
He puts together a team capable of winning more than losing. But that’s it. 0-6 in playoff games is enough of a sample. It’s just too bad Rogers likes Shapiro (who’s making them money) and he’s not going to Fire his long time assistant.
3. Let Belt, Merrifield and Kiermier walk.
I doubt any will want to come back anyway. Horowitz can do what Belt does for 10% of the pay. Schneider (the mustachioed one) and Barger can both fill Merrifields shoes at 2nd and LF respectively.
Varsho can take over CF in the interim (more of CF later)
4. Qualify offer Chapman
DO NOT SIGN HIM LONG TERM FOR HIS ASKING PRICE. He’s worth 1 year and 20 million just on his defense alone, if he rejects you get an extra pick but 7/8 @ 200ish is a waste of money.
5. Sign Bellinger to whatever he wants.
He wants 7/210. Don’t even negotiate, just print the contract and throw in an extra Million a year just as a thank you. Varsho can stay in LF and start catching part time again
6. Look into Vlad JR trades.
Vlad to the Mets for Alonso, Vlad to St Lou for Goldshmidt. Hell Vlad to anyone worth paying a ransom in prospects is totally acceptable at this time. Don’t give him away, but I’d seriously be looking to trade him for a value package to a desperate GM looking to make a splash.
7. Lock in Bo to a big contract.
10 @ 300 should get him signed and in 5 years if you gotta trade him will likely be a cheap contract for someone of his caliber.
8. Look at trades for Stud 3B or OF players.
Tiedemann to St Lou for Arenado for example.
9. Fortify the Bench
Easier said than done, but a power hitting RHH has been needed since Lourdes and Teo both got traded
10. Resign Hicks
He’s got the goods, Walker can have him closing games effectively and showed plenty of promise in his short Jays stint
Pray for us Jays fans
Because Schneider probably returns, Atkins probably stays, We won’t spend what’s required to get Bellinger, we’ll probably overpay to keep Kiermier and Chapman, won’t ever trade Vlad and he’ll walk, same with Bo, won’t make any impact trades, and get scraps for the bench like Luplow
If they aren’t going to do the Majority of those things, they might as well trade Gauseman, Berrios, Vlad, Bo, Kirk and everyone else. Start retooling for 3-4 years from now.
It hurts being a Toronto sports fan sometimes
Some good comments above. Jays definitely need to dismantle a few key pieces starting with the top. Shapiro and Atkins can go. Schneider can go as well. Too many bad decisions and silly mistakes (too many trips to the mound resulting in an early exit for Manoah) and pulling Berrios when he was cruising. You have to see what is actually happening in real time and go with your gut instinct sometimes. I would offload the following players in no particular order: Springer, Vladdy, Merryfield, Chapman, Ryu, Manoah, Pearson and Kirk. Although Varsho struggled off and on I like his hustle along with Kiermier. Springers defensive ability this season was outstanding but his hitting was not even close to what it should be for a lead off player. Biggio proved that if he gets playing time he can and will perform. I honestly liked him at 3B when he filled in for Chappy. He has the range and arm for the position. Espinol or D Schneider can platoon at 2B while Clement can spell off Bo when needed. Spend some money on a good catcher and right fielder and hitters with some pop in their bats. I would also be looking at the hitting coaches as well as the fitness and training staff as it is an absolute disgrace to have 3 young players (Vladdy, Manoah and Kirk) allowed to be that heavy in the Show. I honestly would trade all 3 of them for players that are committed to being in the best possible shape they can be in not only for themselves but for the team.
I’ll reserve comment on Don Mattingly as I have the upmost respect for him for his knowledge of the game but not exactly sure if he is a good fit for this current Jays lineup.
Just my thoughts…..
I’ll add that I have no doubt that Springer is an amazing person and teammate however I honestly believe he is past his prime and the Jays should move on and get some younger talent in their prime while they can still get something for George. Even Buck and Dan commented that Springer is not the player he was when he was with Houston. Age and injury catches up with everyone; even phenom Ohtani. Teams should be very careful about what they offer him as age and injuries are starting to wear on him as well. Seems to have a bit of an attitude issue as well. Should go to San Diego as they have no shortage of egos on that team!
You want to sign Bellinger and Bichette for $500M and trade for Arenado, then surround them with Horowitz and Schneider as starters? Those guys will be back in AAA next year where they belong, and Bellinger is washed up. Look past the top line numbers – Bellinger was no better this year than last, he just got luckier.