Reds first baseman Joey Votto just wrapped up the final guaranteed year of his contract, and while the Reds hold a $13MM decision on a $20MM team option for the veteran’s services next season, they seem all but certain to simply pay the $7MM buyout on the option.
The end of his contract in Cincinnati has come with plenty of speculation regarding whether or not Votto, who turned 40 last month, would retire after seventeen seasons in the big leagues. Votto put that speculation to rest today on The Dan Patrick Show, as the show’s executive producer Paul Pabst made note of this morning. As a guest on the radio show this morning, Votto announced that he wants to play “at least” one more season before adding that while he wants to play for the Reds, he would at least consider playing for another club if the team decides they want to move on.
From a pure production standpoint, Votto appears to be something of a borderline candidate for a big league role headed into 2024. His 2023 season saw him begin the season on the injured list as he struggled to get ready for the season following shoulder surgery he underwent in the summer of 2022, but once he reached the field he was a roughly league average bat for the Reds, slashing .202/.314/.433 (98 wRC+) with 14 home runs in just 242 trips to the plate.
Of course, there’s more at play here than simply raw on-the-field production. Votto is one of the premiere talents of his generation, a six-time All Star who won the NL MVP award in 2010 and finished in the top-10 of MVP voting five additional times. He’s led the National League in on-base percentage seven times in his career, stands as the league’s active leader in walks and hits (following the retirement of Miguel Cabrera) while placing in the top five among active players in doubles, home runs, and RBI. What’s more, he’s spent his entire professional career in a Reds uniform ever since being drafted by the club in the second round of the 2002 draft.
Given Votto’s Hall of Fame-caliber resume and two-decade long history in the Reds organization, it’s hard to imagine him playing for any other club. That being said, the reality of the situation may not be quite so cut-and-dry. After all, the Reds are at the beginning of what could be a long competitive window and boast a bevy of exciting young position players and prospects including Elly De La Cruz, Matt McLain, Spencer Steer, Christian Encarnacion-Strand, and Noelvi Marte. Those five players alone figure to fill the club’s infield mix and DH spot, to say nothing of the presence of Jonathan India and other up-and-coming youngsters like Edwin Arroyo. It’s hard to imagine Votto having a place in the club’s everyday lineup in 2024, though it’s unclear if he would be open to a bench role in the organization.
That said, it seems unlikely that Votto would be able to find a starting role on a contender in the event he moves on from the Reds. While it’s certainly feasible he could find a part-time role with a club in need of lefty bats like his hometown Blue Jays, it’s fair to assume based on Votto’s comments that such an arrangement would only be on the table if the Reds are unwilling to offer him a role on the team in any capacity, given his stated preference to play for Cincinnati next year.
Sorry Joey, but it’s over.
Could be over as I didn’t watch the Reds much but wasn’t his 14 HRs aided by the stadium he plays in? That said, an injury could certainly open the door for playing time.
Votto hit 7 HRs at home and 7 HRs on the road, so there was no distinct difference.
Speaking as a Reds fan, I’d be happy to have him on the team in a part time role. He’s forgotten more about hitting than most players will ever know, providing a strong veteran presence on the team.
Votto had an OPS+ of 99 (league average) while seemingly coming back to soon from his surgery. Wouldn’t be surprised if he has a bump upwards in his production with some more rest and rehab.
With few doubles and not a ton of meaningful contact aside from his HRS.
The Reds have many 1B/DH options and more young talent in the minors. Votto would solely be a legacy/clubhouse move. His on field production and overall fit for the ball club is clunky at best.
@Earmbrister – You are right, probably is he truly has FORGOTTEN all he used to know about hitting. ;0)
BTW – I think he’d be a good bench player/clubhouse guy, and seems to be a good dude so I’m mostly just busting your balls.
There’s something to be said of a player who loves where, whose played with the same club for two decades. They’re happier. Hopefully that enthusiasm will result into a return to his old form. It would be a shame if he left just as the Feds have turned into a legit contender.
Thnx for the ball busting – my teenagers have been slacking off lately …
Of course Joey still knows how to hit just his older and injured body can’t do what it could when he was younger. He really should see how his body feels over the off-season before making a decision. I doubt he has much to offer the Reds as a player, but he might be a good coach or minor league manager who could become a big league leader on a couple years, though I don’t think that interests him.
It ain’t over til the reds cut him that 7 million dollar check lol
He HATES the Cubs. And I wouldn’t want him anyway.
rememberthecoop: I’m sure the cubs are wisely the last team he’d want to play for.
For one who doesn’t suffer fools gladly, the prospect of Joey playing everyday for the go cubs go branch davidian cult: nope
Amn… let the man play till his cleets fall off like Shoeless Joe Jackson, but with out the curse of the black soxs
I hope he goes out like Ortiz, and Pujols before him… with a blast bang KAAZOO!
Oh this is definitely a White Sox move. Past their prime at a position they don’t need
The Rays used to sign legends who wanted a few more years of glory, like Boggs and Canseco. I wish the Athletics would pick up that torch and sign Votto, Donaldson, Kluber, Price, and Porcello to veterans minimum salaries. Maybe sprinkle in some Jose Iglesias too.
Move on Votto. Take your $7 million and find something else to with your time. I know it is hard to accept but you stink now, don’t make the last impression of you be of someone who can’t let go of the applause and attention.
A wRC+ of 98 doesn’t stink although you’d like to see more production of a 1B.
The Reds should offer him a $3M contract for 2024 with escalators in it on number of plate appearances. There’s no reason to pay him any more than $5M for the season, as he’s already getting $7M for his option buyout. If he really wants to stay in Cincinnati, the Reds should be able to control his 2024 salary quite easily.
Why would he want to retire where he can go somewhere else for 7-10 million. Guaranteed he’ll have suitors. It’s better than retiring and collecting on the 230,000 a year on the pension
Why would he want to do the exact same job for 1/3 the pay? The 162 game schedule is pretty grueling, unless he’s looking to hit a career milestone, he’s in for a rude awakening when he gets offers. He’s made $250 million, he shouldn’t need to take a huge pay cut just to make ends meet.
Why? Why should he expect to play for less $ next season? Because, A. He knows he’s not a 28 year old MVP player anymore…and more importantly likely is B. He’s not ready to quit playing the game that he’s loved since he was 5 years old.
No one wants him that has to pay him. Veterans that were under contract and cut were picked up by other teams due to it costing major league minimum for the new team. Doubt he settles for a minor league or split contract. He’s done.
Probably a little pissed that Livensparger gave him the boot in the first; not how anyone envisions their final game. Not that I truly believe thats the reason but I wouldnt be surprised if it played a partial, minute role.
Don’t be naive and don’t blame the umpire. JV wanted tossed. He saw STL gush over Wainwright all weekend and finally screamed and schemed for some attention his way.
Yeah, ok …
If it was his last game, I’m sure he wouldn’t do anything to get himself tossed, especially in the second inning. A clue that he’ll still be playing in 2024.
If I’m so full of sheet, then why did JV acquit the umpire so quickly?
It certainly did surprise me. One it is not typical of Joey. He has always impressed me with his classy demeanor and certainly deserved to be pi$$ed with that strike call. He deserved to stay in the game but the umpire wanted it to be all about them.
How about Toronto, replacing Belt?
Likeliest scenario I think. Reds could use his veteran leadership, but that would only come if he takes a coaching role. With his salary off the books I’d like to think they’ll pursue legit free agent SPs – their biggest need by far. Imagine what this team could have done this year with 2 more viable starters.
I would like to think the Reds would pursue legit free agents as well, but the Reds ownership has proven time and time again, that just because the Reds saves some money, doesn’t mean they will spend it.
Joey definitely gets in the hall if he hangs it up. Maybe he just thinks if he has a full off-season he can get healthy and go out on a better note than this season went. If that’s the case, I get that.
If he stays one more year, he’ll get the $7M. Yes I know he’s made a healthy living, but not many people would leave $7M sitting on the table. He’ll take the $7M, sign for around league minimum, and enjoy the last season of this career. And I don’t blame him one bit.
He doesn’t have to play next year to get the 7M$. Reds have to make that decision 5 days after the World Series ends. If he chooses to retire, he can do it long after that deadline.
We can start this whole conversation all over again.
I’ll restate my prediction of a 1 year 10 mil contact with Reds prior to the option. It’s only 3 mil more for a great vet leader on a very very young (low payroll) team that can fill in when needed. Consider he was about league average with some injuries, at 3 mil why not take a flyer on bringing him back.
Do the Reds have someone better in mind for <3 mil that can provide what Joey V does for the team?
They can always pull a Padres / Nelson Cruz and DFA in July if he isn’t productive.
^^^this is what should happen. It would be embarrassing for all parties if he plays in another uniform. They already owe him the 7M no matter what. Theres no reason not to keep him on the roster in a part time role. The kiddos need mentorship. This Reds team is gonna be fun next year.
the question though is whether Votto wants $3 mil to stay with the Reds and be more of a part-time player /full-time mentor… or if he wants to get $7+ mil or so from another club, where he might have a chance at more regular playing time. he’s getting $7 mil from the Reds at least, no matter what happens
Matt Carpenter landed a 2 year/$12 mil contract last offseason heading into his age 37 season. and while he had an unreal stretch with NYY before getting hurt, his three seasons before that were lousy
my guess is Votto could probably land around a $7-10 mil 1-year deal somewhere. or maybe an incentives-based one that could net him more
I imagine a few million more or less on the contract matters a lot more to the agents, the team and the players union than it does to Joey Votto. Votto’s probably prioritizing finding the right role, environment, etc.
Carpenter played 1B, 3B, and all 3 OF spots for the Yankees – and could’ve played 2B.
There’s a lot of value in that type of versatility.
I was looking for the same:
OPS .747 when league avg is .700?
OPS + of 99 when league avg is 100?
LTC
Park factors.
1) don’t look at unadjusted number
2) don’t use OPS+ when wRC+ exists
Which is 98 and already provided by another poster so I added these for context / support.
I think his numbers were pretty evenly split home/away though.
LTC
Adding a worse metric doesn’t add context or support.
He had a 77 wRC+ at home
He had a 123 wRC+ on the road
The difference is largely due to BABIP
Fil – I don’t care
LTC
About what?
Always listen to the almighty filihok! Or he’ll mute you. Lmao. The atypical sycophant.
They better bring him back…
Votto has at least one more year left in him, and he can go out on a better note with the Reds.
We love you, Joey, but this would probably harm your HOF chances.
Votto would hardly be the first to play a few years to long if a voter decides to not vote for a player because they were horrible after they turned 40 they should likely lose their vote.
If a team is open to give him the money nothing he does should change what he’d already done.
All it really does is remind us of our mortality
Play till they remove the jersey from you.
Shouldn’t make a lick of difference, even if he hits .100 in 500 PA’s next season.
He’ll be a Dodger next season and will be 2024’s Jason Heyward.
Puts the Reds in a tough situation, I think
They are ready to contend. Now they have to decide whether the combination of Votto’s performance, leadership and fan appeal is worth the money and roster spot. I imagine some in the F/O hoped that he’d retire.
doesn’t help that he’s strictly 1B/DH and they’re already filled to the brim with hitters. if he had some positional flexibility it would be an easier call to try and bring him back
It will be interesting to see what Po Boy does here.
Hard to imagine Joey in another uniform but said the same about Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, and a slew of others.
Us outsiders don’t really know the entire story but If Votto is truly a leader in the clubhouse the Reds will get something done.
Based on what? Bob Castellini is one of the worst owners in sports. His son Phil, who basically runs the team, is even worse. The only way Votto returns to the Reds is if he is willing to play for the $7 million he has coming to him anyway.
Seriously. Only reason to bring him back is for PR and selling tickets & merch. Doubt he gets more than a spring training invite considering the plethora of hitters in the org.
His Health + Mindset coach girlfriend should know better than to encourage this, but I’m sure she likes what his paychecks bring so…
Ok
No. A thousand times ‘NO’. Votto is not a Hall of Famer. He’s this generation’s Norm Cash. Good. Hardly great.
Norm Cash had an OPS+ of 150 or more just 1 season, Votto did that 8 times.
I truly don’t give a horse’s hoof about OPS+. Just another Gen-Z stat, like that moronic FIP.
Even if you want to hilariously throw out “Gen-Z stats”… Votto:
– won MVP in 2010
– was runner up in 2017, 3rd in 2015, and top 7 three other times
– was 2nd in ROTY voting in 2008
– lifelong .9936 fielding % at 1B, 15th all-time for 1B with 15k+ innings
– lead the league in OBP 7 times
– 42nd all time in OBP with .409, which is 10th best from 1970 onwards
He was an OBP machine and has a very clear case to make for being one of the top 20 hitters in the MLB from the last 50 years. Although then that relies on something like wRC+, which I guess gives you the heebie jeebies.
mostly, just look at his username and don’t waste your time. he’s the resident grouch. OPS+ is the most accurate metric created for hitters. he just wants everyone to stay off his lawn.
I may be in the minority here. I think baseball wise there isn’t room for Votto on the team, even though he isn’t terrible when healthy.
Regardless, as a Reds fan, I want Joey on the team. I want to see him pinch hit. I want to dream he finds his stroke and we get a couple months of vintage Votto. Come back Joey. I want to see you hit a homer in the playoffs. Its a dream, but thats sports especially when ur a small market team fan.
I keep wanting to call him Joey Bats, even though he’s not the real Joey Bats.
Votto was fantastic in 2021. He was hurt in 2022 and sucked. Had shoulder surgery. Couldn’t get back in time to make opening day 2023. Finally made it back and was pretty good. There was power there. It waned over time though and he eventually went back to the IL. His ISO was .270 at the time (would have finished 17th in baseball). He came back (probably too soon) to try and help the team make the postseason. His ending ISO was still 49th. If he has something left, the Reds could use him. They have too many middle infielders, not 1B. Spencer Steer should be in LF next season. Encarnacion-Strand will be the primary 1B. Votto could still get 300 PA’s.
As a bench player maybe
This is an Arte Moreno signing waiting to happen.
Past his prime, position we already have covered, Hall of Famer….Arte is drooling.
So true.
However, the Giants will sign him to a 3 year 100mm contract & Votto will play a total of 15 games over the 3 year contract.
Joeys buyout is 7 million plus they owe Will Myers $1.5 and Mike Moustakas 4 on their buyouts. That’s 12.5 million dollars of pure waste. It’s not like that franchise is printing money to begin with.
You forgot the almost 3 million from the last year of Ken Griffey Jr’s deferred money.
Reds, Blue Jays, retirement. Those are the only outcomes I see. Post playing career you know Bally sports and/or MLB Network have the door wide open for him if he wants it.
Bally Sports will not around in 2025 when he hang them up.
You’re right I forgot about that.. well whomever the heir apparent will be
They may not be around NEXT year.
Seems to me he’s worth more to the Reds than any other team from the business side. Question then is do they have an interest and, if so, how much more above the $7MM buyout do they want to pay and will he accept it?
Time to put this horse out to greener pastures…
Trade him to the Jets. I mean, Mets.
After the Cubs trade for Alonso they’ll need someone at first.
Decline option. Pay $7million.
Sign new contract:
$3 million in 2024.
Mutual option for $10 million in 2025, no buy out if he declines, $1 million if Reds decline. Rare mutual option that might actually be picked up by both sides, just gives Votto the chance to bow out gracefully if he can’t get fully healthy and struggles.
I think that works for both sides pretty well.
$13 million for Votto is not really THAT outrageous. That is what the salary would be minus the guarantee, which he will get even if he retires. Charlie Blackmon just re-signed for the same amount + incentives and Votto has just as much ticket selling ability and nostalgia in Cincy as Blackmon does in Denver.
They need to pick up the option and give Votto a nice retirement tour. He can continue to mentor Cincy’s young guys, which is worth the salary by itself, but he also hit well in 2023. Nowhere near his peak obviously, but 14 homers in 65 games is still very good. And his OPS+ is right at league average. I think the good PR and goodwill for the Reds would be worth so much more than the $13 million. After the past few years of bad PR, the Reds really don’t need to have Votto seen in another uniform for his final year (or two).
Interesting to see if the Pirates would be interested at say $5M to play first base and provide some much needed power.
absolute no-brainer first-ballot hall of famer who will probably have to wait until his 6th ballot
The only ‘absolute no-brainer first-ballot hall of famer’ who has played (some of) his home games at GABP is Junior… Joey Votto is no Ken Griffey Jr.
joey Votto is unworthy of a 40 man roster spot this fall and winter on the Reds team. So taking the buyout is the right thing to do. Going public with this now proves to me that it’s still about Joey, and not the Reds. Maybe Toronto or another team, does the Reds a favor and signs Votto for a few million this offserason. Most likely he’ll get dfa sometime next year and the Reds can bring him back at ML minimum for a goodbye Joey series.
Lol. Is he not entitled to keep working if he wants to? As the Reds season is over, when is the appropriate time to announce his plans?
He’s entitled to work when ever and where ever he can find work. As for the appropriate time to annouce his future plans- before the season ended or after the Rule 5 draft. Announcing his intentions now is a bargaining ploy.
Pirates need a first baseman.
If the Angels don’t sign the unicorn, I could see Votto in an Angels uni next year, especially if they hire the manager I think they might.
Not sure it would be right for him to sign with a different team. It’s so rare to see any player for any sport play for one team his/her entire career.
I was hoping he would retire when the Reds declined the option. Now that he’s stated he wants to play, bring him back and make some money on the retirement tour next year. I hope he can put together one more Pujols like final season.
Just pick up the option for next year. Send him off right and recoup the money with a send off season. The worst thing i can imagine is votto playing for another team. The second worst is him playing WELL for another team when we couldve had a HOF first baseman giving it his all for one more year.
Who heard Votto on the Dan Patrick show? He said he wouldn’t mind being Taylor Swifts 2nd boyfriend rofl
Doesn’t matter.. the Reds will sell off just like always.. they are the “Royals” of the national league
Hall of very good. More of a accumulator than a superstar. Would resign him for 8 miillion,one more than his buyout. Nice career! Time for the Reds to move on. Just opinion as a Brewers fan!
Joey Votto still bangs.
Nick ,
Votto literally does not have ANY Hall of Fame “caliber” stats, as you profess. Not even close!
Stat boys may find it hard to understand that Hall of Fame caliber is not all about stats, whether traditional, new fangled made up ones, or whatever.
Why don’t you look at OPS, OPS+, slugging, and OBP. Votto has the numbers comparable to other first base hall of famers. He will get in. Perhaps not on the first ballot but he will get in.
Nick,
Votto literally does not have ANY Hall of Fame “caliber” stats. Not one! Why would you want Ben write that?
Nicky,
Votto literally does not have ANY Hall of Fame “caliber” stats. Not one! Why would you want Ben write that?
Reds should just pick up the option 20 million who cares no salary cap reds won’t be near thresholds. Vitro stuck by you and signed a team friendly deal when he signed it.
Problem is reds decline it owe him 7 million. Votto can probably find 7-10 million on open market on top of it keep it simple pick up the whole option.
If not maybe he goes to Toronto since he’s Canadian