The Angels are making a managerial change. As first reported by Sam Blum of the Athletic (on Twitter), the club has decided not to retain Phil Nevin, whose one-year contract expired at season’s end. General manager Perry Minasian is scheduled to hold a press conference tomorrow, which appears to indicate he’ll retain his position.
Nevin spent a season and a half at the helm. The 52-year-old took over on an interim basis when the club dismissed Joe Maddon in June 2022. At the end of that season, the Halos signed him to a one-year extension and removed the interim tag. It essentially served as a trial run for Nevin, who’d only joined Maddon’s coaching staff heading into the ’22 campaign.
Unfortunately for Nevin and the organization, the 2023 season played out in largely the same disappointing fashion as it had in prior years. Los Angeles made a run at competing in their final season with Shohei Ohtani under arbitration control. They started reasonably well, playing slightly above .500 ball in each of the first four months. An 8-3 run coming out of the All-Star Break led the front office to push further in a win-now direction, dealing top prospect Edgar Quero as part of a package for Lucas Giolito and Reynaldo López. That pushed the Halos past the luxury tax barrier for the first time in two decades.
Almost immediately after that deal, the Halos’ postseason expectations crumbled. They lost seven straight from deadline day onwards, burying them in the standings. By the end of August, the Angels had placed a host of veterans (Giolito and López included) on waivers in hopes of dipping back below the tax threshold. It remains unclear if that effort was successful. Los Angeles would go just 17-36 in the season’s final two months, concluding with a 73-89 record that exactly matched last year’s mark. They dropped to fourth place in the AL West.
On the heels of that kind of collapse, it’s not surprising to see the team make a managerial change — particularly with Nevin’s brief contract having already expired. At the same time, it’s hard to know how much of the blame falls on the manager. The Halos have rapidly churned through dugout leaders without success. Nevin was their fourth manager since 2018 alone.
Longtime skipper Mike Scioscia stepped down at the end of the ’18 campaign. Brad Ausmus was at the helm for 2019. The Angels fired him when Maddon became available, but he only made it through two and a half seasons. None of those skippers oversaw even one winning record. The Angels haven’t finished above .500 since 2015 and are tied with the Tigers for the longest active playoff drought at nine years.
That’s made worse by an uncertain, arguably bleak, future. The Angels face the potential loss of Ohtani this offseason. Even if they manage to re-sign him on what’d almost certainly be the largest contract in major league history, he’s unlikely to pitch for all of next season. Mike Trout played one game from July 4 onward due to a hamate fracture. Anthony Rendon’s backloaded contract pays him $38MM annually for three more years. The farm system is among the thinnest in MLB, as the Angels have aggressively pushed players to the majors and traded prospect talent in order to address short-term deficiencies on the roster.
The Halos aren’t devoid of positives, of course. Trout remains one of the game’s best hitters when healthy, even if his production took a step back from MVP level to merely excellent. Shortstop Zach Neto and catcher Logan O’Hoppe look like regulars. Nolan Schanuel had an impressive rookie showing considering he jumped to the majors within a month of being drafted out of Florida Atlantic, where he was generally facing mid-major college pitching. He’ll eventually need to demonstrate more power, but running a .402 on-base percentage through 29 major league contests within that context is remarkable. Patrick Sandoval and Reid Detmers remain promising controllable rotation pieces.
Overall, that’s still a below-average collection of organizational talent. The Angels face an uphill battle ascending beyond any of Houston, Texas or Seattle in the AL West — particularly if Ohtani were to land elsewhere. It’ll be a challenging position for whomever the Halos tab to lead the dugout. The Angels join the Mets and Giants as teams that have moved on from their manager in recent days. The Guardians will need to replace Terry Francona — who has all but officially announced his retirement — leaving four current vacancies around the league.
As for Nevin, he should be able to find a position on another major league staff this winter. While his initial foray into major league managing wasn’t successful, the former infielder has a decade and a half of coaching experience. He previously managed in the Tigers’ and Diamondbacks’ systems and has been on a big league staff since 2017. Nevin spent a year as the third base coach for the Giants, held the same position with the Yankees for five seasons, and was the Halos’ third base coach before replacing Maddon.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Angles are so screwed. Going to be at least 5-10 years before they can be contenders again.
Please lay that out with specifics so the readers understand your thought process.
Their farm system is awful.
They are awful at developing talent
They are awful at spending money
They are awful at roster building
Their owner meddles.
A new GM/PBO will have to come in and do a complete rebuild, that will most likely be at least a five year process to reduce payroll, rebuild the farm, develop players and then get the right free agents.
Earl Weaver couldn’t get 80 wins out of that franchise. I think Nevin is probably glad to go at this point.
I agree but doesnt change the truth of anything drasco said. Really bad org and it all leads back to their owner.
Oh I totally agree with drascoo. Moreno should of done the smart thing and sold when he first had the thought. He was headed in the right direction and balked. If he would of sold then he was selling Ohtani and Trout. Now no Ohtani and maybe no Trout. Who’d want to buy now?
Did Minasian get fired? Thought it was just Nevin?
Maybe Frank McCourt…careful what you ask for
Yes
I agree except Arte will never go for a complete rebuild. He only cares about the marquee players. In his 19 years as owner he has never committed the resources needed to build the organization. He pretty much has distain for minor leaguers. He hasn’t hired an experienced GM since Bill Stoneman retired.
As an Angels fan for over fifty years I don’t expect any change as long as Moreno owns the team.
They’ve had guys progress to the majors in the last 3 year and they have been helpful to.major league clubs. Last year their pitching took a step forward and most likely poor coaching, managing, scouting & analytics tampered with that this year. Articles have come out addressing their pitching approach. At times it looked like they were being managed by a calculator. From a talent perspective I think they’re decent but they’re not being maximized. Obviously it’s easy to blame Arte until you can’t. Bottom line, Houston is still Houston and Seattle and Texas have gotten significantly better. It’s very tough division and it will take more than the average to get back into contention. I don’t forsee the same bad luck with injuries but that’s sports. While your comments are common Angels tropes, there’s more to it.
#1 If you knew ANYTHING about the Angels. You would know that Team President John Carpino and Chairman of the Board Dennis Kuhl are both College Buddies of Angels owner Arte Moreno. And until Arte hires a team President with a baseball acumen. Things aren’t going to change much in the way things are done..
I wish Mike Scioscia was the team President.
Darin Erstad Field Manager
John Lackey Pitching Coach
These 3 would have the team going in the right direction on the field.
I know Arte thinks highly of Scioscia. Maybe Mike can implore Moreno to invest more in scouting and the minor league system.
Carpino is to much of a wimp to approach Arte about this
And Kohl is just an ass kisser. Knows he’s lucky to have a kush job because he’s Arte’s drinking buddy in there college days at University of Arizona.
Some potential owners would be more interested if the payroll was downsized.
Um1526
Who’d want to buy but now?
Anyone who enjoys making a large return on investment
That would depend on the investment wouldn’t it? All you’re really buying right now is an always injured Mike Trout and some baseballs and jockstraps. I’m assuming the price starts around a billion so………. I’m out.
You think MLB would McCourt own a MLB team after what he did with the dodgers?
You’re out alright. Try close to $3B knucklehead.
@drasco036 you also forgot:
They trade away any minor league talent they do get for players that don’t help them win
drasco – simm’s comment was to stir the pot. That’s why he never responded.
Seriously, mlb franchise values are only going up. People are still spending insane amounts on tickets, concessions, merch, etc. That ain’t changing any time soon.
They have drafted decent the last couple years atleast with Neto, and schanuel. I believe it was nevin, but also they need to solidify the bullpen.
Not really Omarj, Houston, Texas & Seattle got better because they each have a better owner, P.O.B.O. & G.M. Moreno interferes to much & doesn’t have good baseball minds in the F.O.
He had one of only 30 available manager positions. I sincerely doubt he is “glad” about losing it.
I didn’t respond because I wasn’t on.
They had a change at the deadline to fix the system and expedite a rebuild. Once they kept Ohtani and then added costing even more prospects it knocked the org back several years in my eyes.
Outside of arte being willing to spend some
Money this is the worse current org as far as near future is concerned.
They need to strip it down and do a full rebuild. Even if they do with their current farm system they are looking at least 5 years to recover. Most likely longer. That’s why I said 5-10…
Moreno interferes to much
=========================
Do you know this for a fact? I hear this all the time, just like I hear that a given GM is interested in player XXX, even when the FO denies it.
So, unless you are part of the FO, how do you know how much Moreno interferes?
They had a change at the deadline to fix the system
======================
The one universal truth in this discussion group, and maybe all discussion groups. is that fans complain when teams go for it, and fans complain when teams sell off.
Frank McCourt doesn’t have the money to buy them, not even at a discount once Trout and Ohtani are just murals on the outside of the stadium waiting to be painted over.
That may be true. But Nevin was not a good manager. I remember a game where the SP gave up a hit and then a walk after getting 2 outs, the next 2 hitters were lefties and Loop was ready in the bullpen. But he left the pitcher, who is a righty, face the next guy. After walking the bases loaded you’d think he would have brought Loop in, but no he allowed the starter to pitch to the lefty and gave up a 2 run single. He then brings in Loop to face the righty and gives up a 3 run HR.
I know it’s anecdotal, but there are lots of instances where Nevin made dubious decisions that did not pay off.
@Slow day at work, I totally agree that he was not a good manager. I think he’s a narcissist who is ignorant and possibly flat-stupid, but what really makes him incompetent at his job is his belief that he has all the answers (which as I alluded to above he doesn’t) as well as being a loose cannon and general jerk.
I’m almost certain from the comments I heard from Ohtani that he might not have hated Nevin, but he didn’t particularly like his in-game decisions or the way he handled his clubhouse, nothing specific, but more reading between the lines.
I wouldn’t be surprised if his exit interview with the GM and Moreno went something like this:
“I’ve enjoyed my time here and there are many things about this club that I love, but I’m at a point in my career where I have to prioritize winning and while I’m making no promises to return to Anaheim in free agency, I won’t even consider it under Nevin because I don’t believe he’s the manager to get the Angels to win an AL pennant or World Series, let alone a division pennant. I will follow what you do in the offseason and maybe we will talk again during the offseason.”
For whatever reason, they waited to fire Nevin long after the team fell out of contention, which I think they felt strongly about doing anyways, but it coincided inauspiciously with Ohtani’s return to receive his team MVP trophy, which is when they would’ve probably done his end-of-season exit interview face-to-face, which was about a day before Nevin was terminated.
This is totally accurate, you can’t build a solid A-ball rotation from what is left in the Angels farm system. Anything of value has already been brought to the majors and while I believe O’Hoppe, Neto, and Schanuel will all take steps forward, there is equal reason to believe Moustakas, Drury, Grichuk, Renfroe, and all the other veterans that are signed or could be re-signed through free agency are going to most likely get worse. However, there’s no getting around the fact that the Angels with Ohtani were 1/3 to 4/9 of a MLB lineup and the rest was unripe prospects and backup/platoon players despite the wild attempts to add talent throughout the season.
The issue with the Angels is they don’t have 26 solid to good MLB players on their 40-man roster, even if they re-sign everyone who is a free agent.. They might have 18-20, but there are two problems at play, one is to get better you have to consolidate talent by trading for a higher-tier player which is done through bulk lower-tier players or trading lesser talent with more years of control and hope the other team sees potential in that player. As the roster sits now, their best asset is a free agent that will net them a whopping 4th round pick because they miscalculated, which I will get into that in a second.
The other guys are younger players and will be needed to build around to get good, but that takes time, most players don’t win awards in their first year or two in the league, so expecting greater than league average or slightly above would be unfair. Then there are the other guys who are either more expensive, older, or injured, leading them to have low trade values.
As an example, while I think they miss the mark a lot, Baseball Trade Values has 6 players listed with a surplus value of greater than $6.4M, one of which was Chase Silseth who is valued the same as roughly Bryce Miller and Bryan Woo, despite coming off a 0.2 fWAR season and having 0.0 fWAR career, while the two Mariners pitchers with the same control have been worth 2.9 fWAR over a combined 219 IP in 2023. Even then, the Mariners for comparison have 20 players that exceed 6.4 fWAR and my unbiased opinion is they underrate the Mariners by a lot.
Lazaro Montes just put up a 1.000 OPS as a huge athletic corner OF at 18 years old in the Cal League and they have him at $2.4M, which is comical. Griffin Canning supposedly has $23.2M (75% of Cease’s value for the same control) in excess value despite only two more years of control before free agency and Montes is worth more than him in a trade. So are the Angels overvalued or are the Mariners undervalued?! Probably a little from column A and a little from column B.
Now about Shohei Ohtani, everyone can see clearly how badly the situation was handled. Most people knew it was going to be a problem anyways when we found out Trout was going to be sporadically on the IL off-and-on throughout the remainder of his career due to some unique core injury that can become randomly inflamed. What really screwed the Angels is they even tried and then failed. Not just in the case of Ohtani, but for every other free agent, international prospect, and potential draft signing that might choose to go back to college rather than get dragged into their quicksand of an organization with a bad track record of developing players.
Everyone talks about the player who has a career year in their walk year, so they can get paid. The Angels were in the Ohtani walk year and had one year to show him enough to not walk, and they failed brilliantly at proving their competence under pressure. No team is going to go all in every year, there will be seasons where it makes more sense than others like this years Padres who really just missed the postseason due to a few injuries, and some chemistry issues. From the outside, the Mets, the Padres, and the Angels went all-in and failed. The Mariners were too careful. Those are distinct differences. The Mets, Padres, and Angels showed 2023 is what they are capable of when they do everything to win, and all three missed the playoffs.
Sure the Mariners missed the playoffs, but the Mariners could spend more this offseason and nobody questions their farm system. I truly believe the Mets, Padres, and Angels will have to overpay to get players to come there, which seems crazy considering the markets they represent. Without getting political, we know the cost of living is higher in California and New York, but that’s not what is going to raise the free agency cost, it’s their reputations now as teams that can’t win, even when they go all-in, either incompetency or flat-out stupidity prevents them from building a team, even with all of the resources at their disposal.
If Shohei were to re-sign with the Angels, should his best offer outside the organization to be $350-400 over 10-12 seasons, add 20% to that total and subtract two years, with multiple opt-outs, just to get Ohtani to consider returning to them. Then they’d have to add three to four other players, he’d have to help pick the new manager, and get a guarantee that Trout is staying with the team. Even then, I think the incompetence of the front office, combined with the toxic personality and poor managerial skills of Nevin pretty much made it impossible for Ohtani to truly consider it, unless nobody wants to play within 20-30% of what the Angels offer. It would have to be at least $100M more probably, plus they’d have to meet the other demands/requirements.
Yeah, What he said. And said. And said.
That’s not drafting well… Drafting well is the Mariners literally turning more than half of their prospects into major leaguers either through promotion from within or trade. Neto is a glove first below league average bat, who on a competitive team would be their bench or platoon bat. The Mariners have exactly the same guy in Jose Caballero without wasting a 1st round draft pick and Caballero is as good of a defender, elite speed, elite baserunner, and is probably a better hitter with regular at bats. Ben Joyce is the typical throws hard, but can’t control his pitches, and until that happens he’s more of a carnival act than a pitcher. They also went all-in on Caden Dana for around $1.5M and as a 19-year old he might be serviceable, but he’s looking like at best a mid-rotation arm after struggling above low-A
I like Schanuel and was hoping he’d fall to the 2nd round where the Mariners could grab him because he was thought to be a mid-30s to low-40s pick and the Angels grabbed him specifically so they could rush him to the majors to help the team win and convince Ohtani to stay. There was so many better players with better positional flexibility that they could’ve taken at #11 and they intentionally reached just to find a guy who they could improperly develop for the sake of another player on the roster. The quick promotion of Schanuel could still end up hurting his development and ceiling in the long run.. You don’t trade his future for the ability to re-sign another player, period.
The most telling draft (it takes a couple years to have hindsight perspective) was the 2021 MLB amateur draft where the Angels took 21 pitchers and the best of those guys to make it to the majors is Chase Silseth (10th round) 0.0 fWAR/0.4 bWAR career and reliever Sam Bachman (1st round) who has been at best, okay. They spent $3M combined on 2nd rounder Ky Bush ($1,75M as 2nd rounder) who probably will be out of baseball in a year with his poor stuff and command, and Mason Albright ($1.25M as 11th rounder) who looks to be a potential mid-rotation arm. That’s it, the rest of the pitchers are potential long relievers or backend starters, and that’s very unlikely.
That same draft for the Marines included half of the trade pieces that brought them Castillo, Suarez, Frazier, Winker (when he was a feared LH hitter), Santana, Boyd, and Casali, Even after those acquisitions, we still have SP Bryce Miller (4th rounder), SP Bryan Woo (6th rounder), C Harry Ford (1st rounder), SP Jimmy Joyce (16th rounder), OF Spencer Packard (9th rounder), SP Jordan Jackson (10th rounder), and SP Michael Morales (3rd rounder) who all will probably make it to the majors for at least one inning or one at bat. The Angels have selected a couple good players, but their process is bad, and they’ve been more lucky than good. Drafting 20 players and paying just under $10M to get a slap-hitting infielder (Neto and Schanuel) in back-to-back drafts seems underwhelming to me.
What is an octogenarian billionaire going to do with his money and time besides fiddle with a professional organization?! Sell it, so he can give it all to a bunch of entitled kids, so they can piss it all away?! Hell, sitting on the team builds more value than any other investment he could make. Even a poorly run organization.
Sorry it was so long, I mistakenly thought this was a site people went to, so they could read and write about baseball. Clearly, Tim needs to know that there are too many words being written on a site that is completely dependent on reading and writing skills with virtually zero graphics. If this was twitter, I would’ve found a picture of two donkeys copulating and pasted the face of Moreno on the top donkey and the Angels logo on the head of the bottom donkey. However, graphics weren’t an option.
Trout has no interest in leaving, he recently said this. They are just giving him the option kinda weird it was floated out there by the organization. I would think he could ask to be traded if he wants to anytime.
Because…Phil Nevin?
Simm. Seriously? You make a statement like that weather it’s about My Angels or any other team .You’re either trying to be funny. Or you know zero about baseball.
It’s a perfectly accurate statement by Simm. The only thing they could do to possibly speed that up is throw billions at the problem and ask Cohen how that worked out.
What have the angels done to prove Simm wrong? And how are the angels supposed to compete with Rangers Astros and Mariners? Oakland probably contenders sooner than the angels.
It wasn’t Brad Ausmus’ fault.
It wasn’t Joe Maddon’s fault.
It wasn’t Phil Nevin’s fault,
It wasn’t Jerry DiPoto’s fault.
It wasn’t Billy Eppler’s fault.
It’s not Perry Minasian’s fault.
It’s Arte Moreno’s fault.
Really? Surfer Brad? You can blame SurferBrad for everything. It follows him everywhere…except one place.
Sure, Arte is to blame for everything because he hired those clowns.
Arte can’t help it if he is nice guy…..
🙂
Ding. Ding. Ding. Bob we have a winner. Its 100% Arte;s fault.
Maybe a little Billy Eppler’s fault, He couldn’t pull one string right his whole tenure in Anaheim. He is probably one of the few GMs worse than Cashman and Bloom.
The guy who got them Ohtani?
The one constant with all the Angels failures is Moreno. Don’t overcomplicate it.
The Orioles, Rangers and Dbacks lost 110, 102 and 110 games, respectively in 2021 and are in the playoffs two years later. The Orioles have the best record in the AL and second best in all of MLB. On the flipside, the Mets, Cardinals, Padres and Yankees collapsed in 2023 when all were expected to make the playoffs.
Idk how the Angels will fare over the next three years, but I know no MLBTR readers predicted the rapid rise and fall of the seven teams mentioned above. Baseball is a funny, unpredictable game at times.
2 of 3 of those teams had great farm systems. The other one spent huge dollars. The Angels farm system is one of the worst in baseball. Do you think Moreno will spend huge dollars?
LOL. The Angels farm is depleted because so much of their talent got promoted to the big leagues
Schanuel 21yo
Neto 22yo
Moniak 25yo
O’Hoppe 23yo
Paris 21yo
Adell 24yo
Adams 23yo
Soto 23yo
Silseth 23yo
Detmers 23yo
Joyce 22yo
Pretty nice core of young guys who have shown they can be at least serviceable MLB players
Apparently you predicted that the Orioles, Rangers and Dbacks would go from 110, 102 and 110 losses, respectively to the playoffs in two years, kudos. We’re you equally successful predicting the Mets, Cards, Padres and Yankees downfall?
The A’s, with 112 losses, have the worst record in MLB this year as did the O’s in 2021. Are you prepared to tell MLBTR readers, the A’s will have the best record in the AL in 2025? How about the 106 loss Royals? Inquiring minds, and inveterate gamblers, want to know.
The A’s will be lucky to win 60 games next season.
He might sign Bellinger since he is the only position player not named Ohtani that will get big money in FA. He won’t sign any top pitchers because that requires a deal longer than 3 years.
Crazy the way Halo fans delude themselves into seeing what isn’t really there. Anyone who pays attention to the sport saw the O’s & Dbacks coming by what those teams looked like last September. Anyone who pays attention to the sport also saw the glaring flaws that the SD and NYY, NYM rosters had. The Cards dumpster fire, I will admit, I didn’t see coming. I feel good telling you that neither KC nor Oak/LV will have over 100 wins two years from now, although I can see a path to KC being.500 or a little better soon. Both of those teams, as well as the Tigers & Bucks will be better than the Halos for years to come. That is a perfectly reasonable assumption due to recent history of those clubs. To hold on to this belief that ‘the Halos just need few more good arms to compete ’ is what is absurd.
Padres were 19-7 in September so does their roster have “glaring flaws” as you so keenly noted or are they obviously on the come given, “what they looked like in September?” People that pay attention want to know.
Padres were top 6 in pitching, hitting, and defense. Exactly what were the glaring flaws?
As a padre fan I can tell you their major flaw was choking under pressure. Hence the extra innings and 1 run game results. Now sometimes those results can have some bad luck involved. This is baseball and a bloop single can win some of the games or lose some.
The padres last I looked also had the most blown saves in the league. So couldn’t hit, or pitch well enough in the clutch despite being able to pitch and hit well enough overall.
Well…I mean…losing games.
Padres were tied with 5 other teams for 7th in blown saves.
In extra innings the Padres had a .189 babip so certainly some of it was bad luck.
In extra innings the Padres pen had a 6.75 ERA so some of it bad pitching. Was that because the manager brought in the wrong pitcher for the matchups? Was it a complete collapse of pitchers in those 16 IP that otherwise had a 3.73 ERA? I am going with mostly the former.
Not sure how you define choking under pressure.
Moniak wasn’t their talent, he was a re-tread from another organization and has pretty severe platoon splits. They traded a starting CF for O’Hoppe, that wasn’t draft and development, he spent 29 games in the minors with the Angels, as opposed to 266 with the Phillies. Paris sucks, Adell is probably worse at baseball than Adele the singer, Silseth is a #5 starter or long reliever, Detmers only has 4 years of control left and is a back end starter with a #3 ceiling. Soto is garbage, Adams is garbage, Joyce’s control is so bad he couldn’t hit air falling from a plane.
You basically listed two years of the Angels promotions and included Moniak and O’Hoppe, so it didn’t look like a list of slap hitting infielders, overcooked players (Adell), and below-average major leaguers.
Here is what two years of the Mariners farm system yielded….
Julio Rodriguez 22yo,
George Kirby 25yo
Logan Gilbert 26yo.
Cal Raleigh 26yo
Matt Brash 25yo
Bryce Miller 24yo
Bryan Woo 23yo
Jarred Kelenic 23yo
Isaiah Campbell 24yo
Jose Caballero 26yp
Emerson Hancock 24yo
Cade Marlowe 26yo (Angels fans remember him, right?)
Juan Then 23yo
Ty Adcock 25yo
Penn Murfee 29yo.
Taylor Trammell 25yo
All of these guys have at least 4 years of service time left and none were guys developed by another organization like Saucedo, Hummel, Speier, Munoz, or Canzone, who all still have 4+ years of control as well. Now look at the farm system in Anaheim vs the Mariners and don’t talk about trading Quero and Bush (he sucks) because the Mariners in the last two years traded 5 players who have been named at one point to the Top 100 prospects list: Noelvi Marte, Edwin Arroyo, Connor Phillips, Brandon Williamson, and Justin Dunn, plus other good prospects as well.
Still the Mariners have…
C Harry Ford
SS Cole Young
SS Felnin Celesten
SS Colt Emerson
OF Gabriel Gonzalez
OF Jonny Farmelo
SS/3B Tai Peete
2B/SS Ryan Bliss
1B/OF Lazaro Montes
2B Michael Arroyo
OF Jonatan Clase
OF Alberto Rodriguez
3B Tyler Locklear
OF Zach DeLoach
SP Jeter Martinez
SP Teddy McGraw
OF Aidan Smith
SP Jimmy Joyce
RP Prelander Berroa
OF Spencer Packard
SP Michael Morales
1B Luis Suisbel
RP Sam Carlson
SP Taylor Dollard
SS Axel Sanchez
SP Walter Ford
SP Ashton Izzi
The other guys in the Mariners’ farm may or may not make it to the majors, but the guys above have a 85-90% or better chance of playing in the MLB in the next 3-5 years. That’s a whole team of prospects (27) and we’re about to add what is considered the #5-8 (Dawel Joseph) and #48 best prospects in the international prospect class. There aren’t glasses with enough rose coloring to even pretend the Angels can right the skip in the next two years. The Mariners controllable assets are x 10 better/deeper than the Angels and they need to add still to remain competitive.
All three of the teams you listed Orioles, Rangers, and D-backs have been picking at the top of the draft for years, so it’s highly likely they were going to build to the playoffs. Those loses also don’t mean anything because those three teams did what the Angels never will do, sandbag for two or three seasons like the Astros did, so they can get back to respectability quicker. The thing that is unique about the Mariners is they’ve only drafted once in the Top 10 of the first round under Dipoto and he was probably their worst pick (Emerson Hancock). Seattle is so good as targeting draft picks, they can literally compete for a championship and still find jewels in final picks of the round.
Weird, I don’t remember mentioning the M’s at all in my post. Nor did I say anything about development (although it is interesting you list a bunch of guys that got drafted elsewhere and were traded to the M’s, how is that “development”?)
Also, if the following is true, what the heck are you doing on MLBTradeRumors? You should be a GM!!!. “The other guys in the Mariners’ farm may or may not make it to the majors, but the guys above have a 85-90% or better chance of playing in the MLB in the next 3-5 years.”
Other than your M’s hyperbole,and the fact I and nobody said anything about the M’s, there are a ton of factual errors in your post.
Bottom line, you’re just salty that the M’s didn’t make the playoffs, just like the Angels, and 16 other teams.
To finish this off. It must take a special kind of psychosis to troll another fan base about the firing of their manager (let alone devote my username to it). If the M’s are in such great shape why the heck do you care so much about the Angels? I’ve never ever posted anything negative about a team other than the Angels, ever.
Face it, you are a simpleton troll, get off the Xbox and go out and do something with your life.
@hossmandu
They are literally the poster child for draft, sign, and develop. I showed it to illuminate how horrible the Angels are, which is made clear, multiple times. You said the Angels had a good farm system, I used the Mariners as an example of what a good farm system looks like, the kind of draft that makes it possible, and the kind of talent that ends up at the major league level from internal promotion and trading from minor league depth as a by-product of a successful development plan within an organization.
As for your comment on the Mariners not making the playoffs, I’m not “salty” anymore than any other fan would be about not seeing their team move on nor does my comment have anything to do with jealousy or anger. If I was going to be salty, it wouldn’t be because of a team like the Angels who can’t keep a GM or a manager despite having some of the best in their profession come to their organization, while seeing many of the same baseball men move on, only to find success. If anything your comments are indicative of someone who is “salty.” In spite of poor front office decisions at the deadline, the Mariners are one of the most successful teams. They have won 86+ games in 6 of the last 9 full seasons with 88+ wins in the last 4 of 5 full seasons, and 88+ in three straight years.
The Angels on the other hand have failed to post a winning record in the last 7 full season, have won 77 games or less in the last four full seasons, and have won only 73 games in back-to-back seasons despite spending almost $100M more on their salary. The Angels are the definition of an organization that can’t do anything. They suck at identifying talent, they are worse at developing talent, and have as much awareness about MLB talent of someone showing up to watch their first MLB game. Any fool who knows nothing about baseball could tell that Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani are amazingly athletic and talented, the rest of the roster is some form of dumb luck more than anything else, seriously.
I’m not on an Xbox, but clearly you are if you are going to that as your best like to insult me! So what if you never posted anything negative about any team other than the Angels, how stupid would that look as if you could make a reasonable criticism based on being a fan of a team that treats 3rd place in the AL West like a championship! I’m not trolling your fan base, I came here because the conversation was on Phil Nevin, not the Angels, remember, they aren’t affiliated anymore, but when someone makes stupid statements about their farm system being “loaded,” I feel obligated to realign their thoughts with reality. That statement on the Angel’s farm system was as ludicrous as saying Angel Hernandez is the best umpire in baseball history, let alone should still have a job at any level of baseball.
I came here because I hate Phil Nevin and I think he’s a piece-of-crap who threw at Julio Rodriguez because he’s a mental midget that can’t control his emotions and then took a swing at another team’s players instead of being a voice of reason during the incidents with the Mariners and Angels. I also dislike the Angels because they have never once condemned the behavior of guys like Anthony Rendon and other players who have incited altercations on the field, or have acted poorly as a representative of Major League Baseball and most importantly as a role model for young fans everywhere. A great example is the Anthony Rendon vs. A’s fan situation and before you try informing me of what “really happened”, I know the fan was being a jerk, but Rendon, who claims to “want to be a good Christian above all else,” decided to start swearing at the one Athletics fan in the stadium while he was with small children. He’s literally paid a mountain of cash to be better than the average blue collar worker blowing off steam on a workday.
I want Shohei Ohtani to be a Mariner because it would make us an elite team, I want him as a Mariners because it makes too much sense from every rational perspective including his love of the city, his work at Driveline just outside Seattle, travel convenience to Japan, his close friend and interpreter is a Mariners fan, the city loves him, the park was built for LH hitters, he could finally see regular postseason baseball like he has been wanting to do for so long, but the reason I want him to play in Seattle more than anything else is because he’s better than that roadside circus you call an organization that literally got a Samurai warrior helmet, which has nothing to do with L.A. or the Angels, just to make a token attempt at making him feel greater affiliation with a badly run, second class team that aside from a few players should be in AAA rather than the majors.
If you feel trolled, take it up with Arte Moreno for putting you in a positions where you are all up in your emotions about a stupid team run by stupid people, blame your psychologist for failing to align your views of the world around you with reality, blame your psychiatrist for failing to properly decern the dose of medicine you should be taking to deal with your emotional sensitivity and hostility, or just blame life for affiliating you with such a bad team due to geography, bandwagoning, or whatever else led you to their doorstep, but stop blaming me and anyone else for your desire to continue to cheer for such a horrible organization. I recommend if it is a geographical loyalty, switch to the other L.A. team, I hear they are actually good. If it is bandwagoning you desire, the Diamondbacks are a great choice this year. Or maybe, it was because you liked Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani, then I would start rooting for the Phillies, Trout will probably be playing there is 2024 and you seem to not get along with Mariners fans!
Angels- They also spent money wisely, Traded assets for young players and improved scouting personnel and improved Minor League coaching and drafted well. The Angels have done exactly NONE of that EVER in my lifetime and I’m 67 And I’m going back to the days of Gene Autry.
Actually Unclemike1526;
The Angels did exactly that when Disney owned them and allowed GM Bill Stoneman and manager Mike Scioscia to do what they had to do to build a farm system and finish off the players at the ML level. They were contenders for years and won the World Series in 2002. The next year Arte bought the franchise and shortly thereafter started interfering. They haven’t been the same since.
Huh. Well I did drink a lot back then. And I only remember Stoneman being good with the Expos FO and helped build a lot of that Super Team they had back then. So once in 67 years still isn’t very credible is it? Even if I’m wrong.
In the 70s, the angels had the number one ranked farm system.
It didn’t work out.
Well I mean being able to wish upon a star is not really fair.
Well they did in the late 90’s. The core that won the WS 2002.
Salmon
Anderson
Percival
Erstad
Lackey
Molina
Edmunds
Washburn
Glaus
Ortiz
Figgins
Shields
Traded for Kennedy
Krod
$100 mythical dollars if you can tell me who recommended Bill Stoneman to interview Mike Scioscia for the Angels Managers job in 2000.?
PS It wasn’t Tommy LaSorda. But it was somebody that was once employed by the Dodgers.
The story I read said Fred Claire made the recommendation after Mike Scioscia was embarrassed and left the Dodgers organization when managing at AAA when his pitching change was overruled and he learned he was just a figurehead.
Farscott-You are correct. It was Fred Claire. Sorry the prize bin is empty. Let’s blame Arte.
Basedball bin vedy gud to mei
Try”been berry berry good” Chico Escuela breath….
The Nationals won a World Series, have entered a rebuild, and will be back competing in a the playoffs before the Angels turn things around
Those teams were bad for years. The O’s tables forever and then we’re able to hit on some prospects. If that works then you are looking at about 5 terrible years. If it doesn’t (royals, tigers examples) they could be looking at 10 years.
It’s pretty simple to see the angles are in a very bad spot right now.
Depends on if they embrace the rebuild and do the right thing. They need to trade Trout for high end prospect arms like Andrew Painter and Mick Abel. They have core pieces to build around. O’hoppe behind the plate, Neto at short, Moniak in center, Schanuel at first— it’s a very good core of youngsters. Now fill out the roster and focus on pitching like Tampa, Dodgers and every other team winning. But if they bring in Counsel and only add Snell and a bullpen arm, then sign a journeyman DH– they’ll finish in the same place they did last year and last– out of the money. They need to fully embrace a rebuild. Trade Ward, Drury, DFA Rendon, trade Trout, Estevez– and any other arm they don’t see in their future.
Agreed! They need to clean the canvas before they paint the masterpiece.
Please don’t spend on high price FA’s until the 5 to 7 young core players prove they are worth extending and another group are about to finish their development . Then in 3 or 4 years solid FA’s may want to play for the Angels.
But it all starts with new ownership, front office, field staff, development staff, better international development, better training facilities, something current ownership is not willing to do.
Are you high?
They’re not going DFA Rendon
Trout is not going to ask for a trade.
Estevez will be better in 24
Drury and Ward are solid players.
What are you going to reyy on if someone goes down?
You aren’t getting Painter and Abel and getting off the full contract at the same time.
They need to trade Trout for high end prospect arms like Andrew Painter and Mick Abel.
=====================
That’s not remotely feasible.
Depending on how much of the contract they way…not entirely out of the question. I think McGarry has a much higher ceiling that Abel anyways.
If you really believe that. Go to Vegas lay some of your hard earned cash on it.
Remember kids, if you wanna piss off your parents sign Rendon for 38 million per year
If you really wanna piss off your parents, buy real estate in imaginary places…
Whew!!!
Please expound with specifics so the readers understand your thought process.
Pretty simple, it’s obviously a happy “WHEW”. Duh!
Lloyd – If I have to explain that you, then you should have watched more Angels games with Nevin at the helm.
Off topic, way off topic Sorry!
But could someone please enlighten me about how to ‘unmute’ someone on this site? I must have done it by accident. I’d have not wanted to have done it intentionally. Thanks in advance.
Go to your profile, there is a list of people you have on mute. Just uncheck the box.
Thank you drascoo
> Go to your profile, there is a list of people
> you have on mute. Just uncheck the box.
AND click on SAVE at the bottom of the page. Otherwise, they stay muted.
Thanks for asking that question because somehow I’ve accidentally muted several people and then my own comments end up being “hidden” because somehow I’d accidentally muted the author.
They should hire Lou Brown at this point.
He is too much of an asset to Tire World
He is too busy working to get more whitewalls in stock. Maybe Arte can put a trade together that Tire World will take. Any ideas?
Go into Settings-My Account & click on their name
Mike Scioscia?
Seems he wasn’t the issue afterall!
He was only extended because Moreno was planning on selling the team, and he knew no new owner in their right mind was keeping Nevin beyond this year. Now that’s out the window, and the search begins for someone who THINKS they can get something outta that mess of a roster.
It looks like a full rebuild around Trout, if he’s even there next year. The down side is that it might be hard to get quality players who don’t want to be on a rebuilding team. As a fan of the White Sox, I know they’re not going to attract anyone of value. The team is loaded with DFAs and a cheapskate owner. It’s gonna take several years to turn that franchise into something resembling a team.
It has to be a full rebuild at this point– what’s left? As soon as it is clear Ohtani is gone Trout is going to quietly ask to be moved to Philly, Yankees, Boston, Dodgers– although no way Moreno accommodates the boys in blue. But if he stays they can build a strong team, but it will take three years to be able to compete– and they will have to continue to draft well.
Finally, some good news for Angels fans. Minasian might be next…
orange2001;
Mr. Minasian will have his choice of positions if he’s fired (not sure who would be so desperate as accept his position were it opened). Similar to when Alex Anthopoulos was behind Mark Shapiro in Toronto. It was a bad situation. Anthopoulos went to work for a year or two as a Dodgers assistant, then was hired to run the Braves….and Minasian working with him there really helped.
Arte ruins GM’s and managers because he meddles and makes the major decisions…then the GM’s and managers have to clean up his messes. Then guys like you think they created the messes. In 3-4 years you (and others) will be on here complaining about turning Perry Minasian loose and how successful he was with another franchise.
Minnassian is going nowhere. He is the buffer for Carpino and Moreno. Fire GM/PM and who takes the blame for this mess?
I thought I would never like Nevin , but he kind of grew on me somehow. He seems to care , and he appreciates the players…that’s usually good enough for me. His “strategery” had some holes and blank moments but that’s okay since I’m a fan of a rival and it made him kind of endearing. “Awww, he did that thing again, silly.”
Phil Nevin feeling the love ! Nice.
I want some of your MDMA.
No I need yours, mine’s totally bunk.
Arte Moreno is the problem.
No statement said on this site has been more accurate.
You’re exactly right. Arte is actually worse than Jerry Jones. I think that Trout will ask to be moved especially after saying positive things about Nevin. I don’t know why anyone would want to be the GM or manager with Arte as the owner. Arte and his buddies need to go. As a Halo fan for 45 years I have not spent a dime on their merchandise or gone to a game when I visit family in Cali and won’t see them here against the Astros or Ramgers. I’ve even had friends offer to buy me tickets. Arte reminds me of Dick Dastardly where every plan of his fails. Just sell the team already Arte!!!!!
Just sell the team Arty before you make another horrible decision.
Not trading Ohtani has set this organization back years. Nothing to trade and nothing in the farm. Nobody wants Trout anymore. He rarely plays and that contract is horrendous—same with Rendon.
Arte Moreno is the only constant of the last 10+ years of misery and mediocrity in Anaheim. Everybody else has been hired, fired, scapegoated and shuffled in and out.
mlb fan;
Keep in mind that when Arte came in the previous years team has won the WS.
Correct. 3 General Managers and 4 Mangers and no winning seasons.
The farm has actually produced a lot of MLB players on the current roster. And if this is a rebuild it could be relatively quick by trading those inexpensive players for prospects and having a great draft position.
i like al conin;’
Perry Minasian and his staff have built a great farm system – and don’t tell me about the “projections” from experts that are always quoted and always wrong (Minasian came from the Braves that for years have had poorly regarded farm systems, yet they keep brining up impact players from it).
The Angels are awash in pitching prospects. Pitching wins, and the excess can always be traded for position players.
Good points, Samuel.
Are we talking about the same Angels? Or the Bermuda Triangle Angels? , West Allis Angels? The We Ain’t No Angels? Cause I ain’t seeing what you guys are but I quit drinking.
lol look at Samuel. Please enlighten us as to who all these elite Angels pitching prospects are.
Detmers, Canning, Sandoval, Joyce – they aren’t elite but serviceable MLB pieces controllable and cheap. That’s not nothing.
Sandoval is overrated.
To say no one wants Trout is very incorrect. He’s still the best CF in a game that is short of power at that position. If fully healthy he can win another MVP. Many teams will line up for Trout and they should. He had 40HRS last year and he was heating up and on pace for 40 when he broke his hamate bone. Teams will also be able to move him to DH. Angels can free up nearly $40M more in payroll and get back multiple top prospects. A bitter pill, but one they need to take.
To say no one wants Trout is very incorrect.
=================================
Two problems.
1-He’s averaged only 104 games a year over the past 6 full seasons. Even if he averages 120, then you are paying $37m per for 75% of a season, or close to $50M on a per season basis.
2-If age hasn’t already set in, it likely will. He’s 32 with 7 years left. Between 2000-2023, for players aged 35-38, only one player (Bonds) averaged 19 fWAR over the four seasons. And only 6 had a 14 or better, and 3 of the 6 were PEDs related.
Minasian recently said one of the biggest qualities he seeks in a manager is player respect, and MLB.com the other day ran an article how much the players respect him. We’ll know more soon but wondering if this is the canary in the coal mine of a rebuilding direction. Nevin would.n’t want part of that.
I think they’ll have to hire a rookie manager with something to prove…….or Gabe Kapler.
Arte Moreno hiring Gabe Kapler would be perfect.
Unless they are going to extend Perry, they need to fire Perry, and let the new GM be part of the hiring process.
Trade trout…a different team would move him out of CF and he could DH more. Even with his injury history, someone will pay up for him. Now tell me how I’m wrong…
With his contact, could they even get much back for him without sending a load of cash along with him?
@paleobros
Exactly, the injury history makes the contract too risky to give up any real controllable talent. Young controllable talent is the currency of MLB now.
I’ll start:
1. Mike Trout has a no trade clause
2. Mike Trout would have to approve any deal
3. Because of 1 & 2, that would severely limit the market for a Mike Trout deal
4. Because of 3, that would severely limit the quality of players the Angels would receive in a Mike Trout deal
5. Most importantly, Mike Trout has recently stated he has no interest in being traded
Not difficult to understand Einstein
RE: hossmandu
“Not difficult to understand Einstein”
Unnecessarily being [rude]
Muted
You are an a$$. I just responded to one of the “trade Trout” comments citing two points, with some details. My response, imo, stands on its own. At no point did I feel I should include an insult.
You might be right. If you could get 5 or 6 players and if they all pan out, you’ve sped up the rebuild. The fans however, might burn down the stadium if you lose Ohtani and Trout in the same off season.
Why would you trade 5 or 6 players and put yourself in a hole.?
Just so you can say you traded for Trout.?
Do you guys ever think things out?
Was just looking at it from Angels perspective. Didn’t mean it would happen. Nats got a haul for Soto, and yes, I know Soto was younger, still had some contractual control and all that. These things do happen.
Yeah, it will be a huge fire when all of the cardboard cutouts catch on fire!
Trout is still the best CF in the game. Of course people will trip over themselves to add him to their team. He’s still got another MVP season in him if he stays healthy– and he can DH.
Come To The Padres and Bring Bengi Gil as Bench Coach!!!!
Joe Maddon
zero surprise. Contract was up. team under performed.
Can’t fire the owner so fire everyone else.
Next Stop San Diego!!!! Bring Bengi Gil as Bench Coach!!!!
The Angels need to rebuild from the ground up, do what Baltimore, Arizona, Cincinnati have done go with the build a team thru the draft. It will take a 2 to 3 years, trade Mike Trout to the highest and best offer of major league ready prospects. Don’t sign any big money Free Agents, sign free agents so you can trade them for prospects at the trade deadline for a couple of years. And if Moreno not into a rebuild of the organization he needs to sell, Angel fans have been loyal for many years, Angels have made really bad moves in trying to strike it big and make an overnight winner, it has not worked.
The Angels have rebuilt. You and others just don’t know it.
Exactly. What we have here is a case of mass ignorance.
Schanuel 21yo
Neto 22yo
Moniak 25yo
O’Hoppe 23yo
Paris 21yo
Adell 24yo
Adams 23yo
Soto 23yo
Silseth 23yo
Detmers 23yo
Joyce 22yo
They’ve rebuilt to have the same record as last year while about to lose their best hitter and #1 pitcher? GM-PM has made some nice trades and drafted well to add building blocks for the future, yes, but where is the pitching? Until we add dominating pitching it will be the same story next year. All of our pitchers are 4s and 5s– all of them. Don’t talk to me about potential. For most of the season Detmers was a mess. Sandoval throws 90 pitches through 3-4 innings. Canning is not a shutdown pitcher. Maybe all three can be more with the right coaching, but you can’t plan a season on those guys. All three should be our 4, 5 and six starters. Who are the first three? Let’s give #3 Silseth on optimistic hope and prayer. Who is our # 1 and #2 teams fear? They’ll have to sign Snell and or trade for a #2. If we are in a rebuild, great– that can be fun. Trade Trout to Philly for Andrew Painter and Mick Abel. Now draft a big arm this coming season and they will be in a great position moving forward.
Wow, how come you aren’t a MLB GM? Angels had $147mil of payroll on the injured list this year. $50mil more than any other team in MLB.
Do you have a solution to that genius?
Trout is going nowhere. Attractive contract, good group of young talent around him.
Notice who makes this official. If it’s Perry, the. Perry might stay. If it’s announced by someone else, I have to believe Perry is gone.
No way Perry is gone. He traded for O’Hoppe and Moniak, drafted Neto, Schanuel, Joyce, Silseth etc.
He inherited Rendon. He asked to trade Ohtani two seasons ago and was rebuffed by Moreno. He has to work within the madness of the artificial payroll constraints set by Moreno. Until Arte turns over complete control and allows whoever his GM to operate as they see fit– nothing will change except around the margins. Carpino needs to be replaced with a baseball man– Stearns would have been perfect. Epstein, Jeff Luhnow. Manager should be someone innovative– they’ll fo for Craig Counsel because that’s what they do. I love Showalter, but he was Eppler’s choice and Moreno vetoed that hire for Maddon. Joey Cora, Mark DeRosa, Eduardo Perez, Rual Ibanez should all be on the short list for manager. They desperately need a new president to oversee everything and invest more in their scouting and development, training and nutrition facilities and coaches. They need a guru as a pitching coach– Greg Maddux, his brother– someone other than generic dreck we’ve had. Until they add management structure and pitching we are going nowhere.
My wife said last night that as soon as Moreno puts the team on the market, Theo Epstein will be part of the new ownership group and will take on a position of CEO that is highly involved in baseball operations much like Jeter in Miami.
Not an Angels fan, but that would be sweet. Jeter had no chance whether he was good or bad, or anything else.
But LAA is under their old attendance by maybe 600,000. If Theo gets the fans back, I can imagine another $120M in revenue from all source. He’d be real good for the Angels. Manfred should steer it that way.
If Perry keeps his job, Showalter will be the next manager of the angels.
I would be happy to go into 2024 with Perry and Buck.
I think Buck would make Perry more palatable.
Much more likely its Walt Weiss the bench coach of the Braves.
I’m not real sure Showalter would want the job. I don’t see Buck and Arte getting along.
That’s a good point. I’m not sure either. But I do know three years ago, Buck was Perry’s guy.
Three years ago I think Buck takes the job. I doubt it today.
Who would?
Arte Morono
Gabe Kapler on lines 1, 3, 5 and 7……..Only the ‘odds” appeal to him…
And remember he’ll need a dugout spittoon for his ice cream…
Hello Bob Melvin
Perry wanted Showalter, Moreno wanted Maddon.
If Perry stays, and Showalter wants the job, it’s his.
No. The Padres players quit on Melvin. One of the best lineups in baseball and he got nothing from them until the GM basically handed the reins to Flaherty in late August. We don’t want him in Anaheim.
Interesting. A whole lot of Padre fans think that they were unlucky, and cite the Padres #8 Py W/L as evidence. Good to see someone blaming the manager (right or wrong).
A sad day for the rest of the AL West, but as long as Arte still owns Los Angeles of Anaheim, we should be in good shape.
You must not be a A’s fan. Because that rudderless ship is only doing one thing. And thats moving to Vegas.
Really shouldn’t have asked Mike Trout on whether to hire Nevin or not for 2023.
Not really shocking. I hope they can figure something out during the off-season. At this point I would be pleased with being competitive next year.
Trout will be traded to the Phillies, I garentee it, with the Angels eating around half of his total contract. Phillies will give up Painter, Marsh + lower level prospects
There is nothing like a fan garenteeing something will happen?
Exactly what’s the guarantee, that you’ll never post on this board again? Or that you’ll never make another stupid garentee again.? Or you’ll learn the definition and spelling of guarantee?
But he’s right. It makes no sense for Trout to stay– it might for the team, but not Trout. How is he going to wait three years to compete? He’ll be 35. As soon as Ohtani says goodbye he’s going to explore the trade possibilities. Phillies make more sense than any other team. Angels cannot afford to not get anything for Trout like they did Ohtani.
I object to people guaranteeing things.
If Trout wants to stay, he’ll stay. If he wants to go, he’ll go.
As an Angel fan, I never want Mike Trout to wear a different uniform.
I object to people guaranteeing things.
=======================
Guaranteeing things is silly. But since there is no such thing as a guarantee, I see no reason to object to it.
And misspelling something.
I do think you’re in the ballpark. Dombrowski has no problem trading prospects for veterans. I don’t think the Angels will need to eat half, but they’ll have to eat some of it– which is fine. Definitely Andrew Painter back– Phillies will rationalize he’s gone for all of next year. I think the Angels also get Marsh and Mick Abel. Maybe the Angels also send Bachman the Phillies’ way. But something in that realm would be good for both teams. Now they can do a legit rebuild and they’ll have more high picks in the next draft. A healthy Trout for Philly makes them scary.
The Angels will not “eat” any of the Trout contract. It’s the best superstar contract in all of MLB for a guy his caliber.
carllafong;
Tell us what prospects Dombrowski has traded for veterans with the Phillies.
The only one I can think of is catcher Logan O’Hoppe who was stuck behind JT Realmuto to acquire Brandon Marsh to play CF. On the other hand, at the time of the trade Marsh was 23-24 years-old with years of control remaining. Hs shortcoming was hitting consistently. Dombrowski had brought in the best hitting coach in MLB (Kevin Long), and Long has had a very good offensive 2023 season. Marsh was a big part of the Phillies getting to the World Series in 2022, and to the playoffs this year.
You really ought to keep up with things instead of repeating untrue narratives.
LFG-Do you write for SNL or are you drunk?
Brad Assumes??? Assumes what?
Nice to see it was changed to Ausmus. Did my critique work?
There’s just nothing quite as satisfying as firing your manager is there?
Ohtani won’t be there either!
Their scouting is S.hit
Their development is S.hit
Their medical staff is S.hit
Their team builder is S.hit.
They should have traded Otani and Trout last year to revamp their entire team overnight. Think of 2 Soto type of return packages for those players.
But no that team is completely a mess.
They’re unorganized as a $5.00 DVD bin at Walmart!
Ignorance is bliss.
Schanuel 21yo
Neto 22yo
Moniak 25yo
O’Hoppe 23yo
Paris 21yo
Adell 24yo
Adams 23yo
Soto 23yo
Silseth 23yo
Detmers 23yo
Joyce 22yo
You can have amazing prospects and still have them not pan out. It’s all in the development and having them buy into teams core values. Look at what the dodgers do
So? The Angels have always had young players. Neto and Schanuel were specifically picked for their high floor and not their ceiling.
Adams and Adell and Joyce were picked for their ceilings and not their low floors.
Bachman was picked out of pure stupidity.
If you know who will develop into a good major league player and who won’t, you’re a genius.
If you know who will develop into a good major league player and who won’t, you’re a genius.
===========================
More to the point, we have history on several of the players hoss mentioned. Most of them have poor histories.
Just as an example, as I mentioned elsewhere, Adams walks everyone.
Paris has 353 Ks in 971 MiL ABs. That’s probably a solid 240 Ks per 600 ABs in the pros.
FWIW, I can pull the names of 10-15 RS prospects with similar numbers. None of them are likely to ever be a regular.
Have any of those prospects had a league average season?
No. Moniak got pretty close, but he is a platoon player only.
If that. Moniak has a .866 against righties this year, but with a 92/7 K/W, and a .420 BABIP. I have never seen anyone survive a 92/7 K/W.
@BaseballIsLife – nobody said any of these guys were going to be superstars. But as an Angels fan, I know that superstars do not make a team. You need a bunch of young cheap players to play at or above replacement level.
To answer your question:
Schanuel 21yo – 29G, 0.1bWAR
Neto 22yo – 84G, 1.6bWAR, 68 days on IL
Moniak 25yo – 85G, 2.2bWAR, 14 days on IL
O’Hoppe 23yo – 51G, 0.6bWAR, 120 days on IL
Paris 21yo – 15G, 0.0bWAR, 14 days on IL
Adell 24yo – 17G, 0.3bWAR, 67 days on IL
Adams 23yo – 17G, -0.7bWAR
Soto 23yo – 4G, 0.4bWAR
Silseth 23yo – 16G, 0.8bWAR, 31 days on IL
Detmers 23yo – 28G, 2.2bWAR
Joyce 22yo – 12G, 0.0bWAR, 93 days on IL
Hoss, No. You need a bunch of young, cheap players to play above league average to have a winning team. This season that meant playing above 2.2 bWAR.
The Angels had 2 guys that got to league average but one is a platoon OF that had an unsustainable BABip and the other was a starting pitcher that was wildly inconsistent, averaged 5 IP per start, and is in his third season in the league.
The fact that most of these young guys spent large chunks of the season on the IL also does not boost your argument.
Soto is not in their future at all. Adams is questionable with too much swing and miss, not to mention dropping balls and throwing to the wrong bases. Being athletic and handsome doesn’t make him a valuable player. Paris is two seasons away. Joyce was hurt all year. Silseth has promise, but how many innings can we count on him for? Detmers was ineffective all year with a 4.48 ERA and 1.35 Whip. He has potential, but what can you count on for next year? Adell– who knows? A lot of swing and miss. We have some nice pieces but the issue continues to be starting pitching. With Ohtani gone we have no legit one, two, or three! We have a bunch of young 4s and 5s and one old 5 in Anderson. We can’t match up with any winning team unil this is addressed.
Moniak has gotten a hit in a couple of months.
Adell is still struggling.
Schanuel is a real question considering where he was drafted.
Paris doesn’t project to anything with 353 Ks in 971 MiL ABs.
Soto, Adams, and Joyce are pure guesses to see if they will amount to anything. Joyce has a 5.3 BB9 in the minors and 9.0 in the pros.
It feels like you are pulling names at random.
***Moniak hasn’t gotten a hit***
FWIW, subsequent to 7/21, Moniak has an incredible 61/4 K/W. It is hard to believe that anyone could do worse. And that resulted in a very weak .587 OPS, despite a very high .349 BABIP.
To be fair, Moniak hit .260/.283/.387/.67o in the 2nd half. About 20% below league average. That is closer to what we should expect from him at the plate. going forward with a normal babip. Not a bad backup player, especially since his numbers are against the big half of the platoon. He just isn’t a starting CF on any decent team.
Missippi_has_3Ks;
Your knowing what’s going on with the Angels organization is S.hit.
Angels fans, is this a surprise?
MLB fans aren’t surprised! The Sanlot squad could have a better record than the Angels!
Yes. We suffered through 2 seasons of Nevin and fully expected to be subjected to him through the rebuild that is coming. This is a glorious day in OC. The only thing that could make it better is if Arte announces the team is back on the market and he will be gone before the 2024 season starts again.
The Pujols contract was trash, the Hamilton contract was trash, Rendon contract. Also faailing to resign Teixiera, Grienke. All shortcomings by this amateur AAA ran franchise.
Your comments are trash. Your brain is trash. Your life is undoubtedly trash. I miss anything?
Mississippi is trash.
I’m from California. Just thought the name was funny if you really think about it.
So I guess the problem wasn’t Scioscia afterall. The turnover in GMs and managers is impossible. Now what? Craig Counsel gets them to .500? Whoever is there they need pitching. Add two dominating arms (Snell) and one quality arm like a Wacha. And they need a legit closer. Without that investment they’ll enjoy the same results.
I thought Scott Shields was the only reason Scioscia was able to push the right bullpen buttons. When Shield left, the Angels bullpen fell off a cliff.
A manager can not manage better than his bullpen and the Angels bullpen has been awful for a very long time. Consequently, so has their managers.
Sciosicia was winner as a player and as a manager. They won year after year– and then Moreno took over. Moreno encouraged bad trades and bad signings year after year, as the franchise became worse and worse. There is no stability when management changes year after year.
Totally Nevins fault…well played Arte! Meh
When will they announce Bobby Valentine?
For the love of God, no! Why even put that out in the universe?
Instead of trading Ohtani at the deadline for a boatload of top prospects, the Angels traded the few prospects they had for a hail mary attempt at a playoff berth, thus bankrupting the Angels of any near term hope of contending.
Unlike some owners, Moreno has no problem spending money – he just has no clue whatsoever. Sorry Angels fans… I don’t see an Orioles type success in Anaheim in the next 5 to 10 years. Probably not until Moreno sells the team to someone with some modicum of sense.
The Angels would not have received a boatload of prospects for Ohtani. They would have gotten 1 top 100 prospect and a couple mid level guys.
Arte has a HuGE problem spending money. He has refused for 20 years to go over the CBT and even this season he tried to get back under it at all costs. He also flat out refuses to give a starting pitcher a deal over 3 years. You cannot possibly attract top FA starters for a 3 year deal.
Someone said the last pitcher on a longer contract with the Angels was in 2015. Don’t remember if they said Wilson or Weaver.
That is correct. Those were the last 2 long term deals signed by an Angels starting pitcher.
How does this change anything or even help going forward?
The Angels will most likely have 5 position players starting that are 25 or younger. Neto and O’Hoppe need to be more consistent and stay healthy. No one is taking Anthony Rendón off the Angels hands. Trout has already said, he wants to stay with the Angels. They need to add two starting pitchers. Anderson should be traded for anything anyone will give up for him. No this season isn’t all on Nevin. But he kept playing a guy who was barely hitting over 100, that was a guarantee to make an error. Velasquez, has no business being in the Majors. No Fletcher will not hit much, but is a better option than Velasquez. Reginfo will most likely be traded. Bring back Moose. Need a lights out closer. Ward will mostly be a trade piece.
Neto and O’Hoppe are nice players, but they are not difference makers. Of course catchers are seldom difference makers.
There are so many questions that have to be answered in the affirmative, but as it stand now, even if things go as expected, this team doesn’t have enough talent.
Trout actually didn’t say he wants to stay with the Angels. He said he expects to be here with the Angels– there’s a difference. Trout had every opportunity to say, ‘no way I want out. I’m staying here.’ He didn’t do that. He said what I would expect him to say. But when Ohtani leaves, and he will, is Trout prepared to wait to have an opportunity at the playoffs when he’s 35? That’s what it comes down to. I think he will politely and respectfully and quietly ask if he can be moved to certain teams. If he stays, great. Then I trade Moniak while his value is high, as well as Adell for pitching.
Lineup
Schanuel
Zeto
Trout
Drury
O’Hoppe
Rednon or Regnifo
Ward
Adell
And they need to find a DH
Is that enough offense?
Is this Rotation close to being enough?
Detmers
Sandoval
Canning
Silseth
Anderson
Best to trade Trout, Drury, Estevez, Sandoval, Canning for prospects and execute a real rebuild.
Here is how that went in the Angels offices.
Management: I am sorry Mr. Nevin but we have to let you go.
Nevin: THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!
I don’t imagine this is going to help the Angels resign Ohtani.
That ship sailed in July.
The Angels are so screwed.
The farm is bare.
They are only going to get a pick for losing Ohtani.
They can’t move Trout due to the combination of the contract and he can’t stay on the field. Maybe if they eat a ton of salary.
They might as well dump every veteran to just clear out payroll and see if they can get a decent prospect back.
Maybe Arte can convince Scioscia to come back
Perry needs to go as well. Dude is a terrible GM.
How about a female manager?
Why governor, Newsom? How about we sign the smartest baseball mind out there? I understand that you feel good about appointing a black lesbian who lives in Maryland, not California and whose only experience is as professional protestor and activist– but how does that make us better?
I said the same thing about the Red Sox. As the father of a well-educated daughter with an interest in sports, I’d love to see Raquel Ferrera get the GM job.
As a RS fan, I only want to see her get the job if she is the best candidate.
Nevin was not the problem this season. Minasian and Moreno are the problem. Minasian bankrupted the farm system to acquire Renfroe, Escobar, Giolito, Grichuk, Moustakis and Cron. Reynaldo Lopez and Urshela were decent trades. The rest of them did not move the needle. Tyler Anderson is a huge overpay and was a failure on the field. Estevez has been a mixed bag at best while Drury was a good signing as well as Matt Moore. Tepera and Loup were failures. Perry has been a bust and should be looking for another job. Arte is a terrible owner that meddles and has had a huge part in the teams failures. Arte needs to sell the club.
Those were fringe players he traded. Take a sedative and relax.
Trade Trout is what you do. Get some prospects. Ohtani coming back, If he wants to come back. Make a play, but I wouldn’t go gangbusters. Should have been traded, yeah. But too late now.
Rendon I guess you try to play him more DH moving forward. Get him healthy enough to contribute at least another season and a half.
Maybe hire Bloom to help the ops dept in some compacity. At least you would get a closer look at how Tampa builds from ground up. Might help your organization.
Manager probably doesn’t matter at this point. Just get someone who is qualified. I keep hearing Ron Washingtons name around. I don’t know how old he is, But he’d bring experience and respect. That might be good. He knows the west too.
any yankee fan could have told you how this was going to end up.
YAY!!!!!!
There is a God.
Lol. Do most Angels fans feel that way about Nevin?
I always wanted him to be the Astros manager.
They need proven experience in the minors first
Bye bye Nevin, welcome Melvin or Showalter!!
What did Nevin have to do with lousy defense and baserunning. He didn’t handpick the coaching staff. That was Minasian. So nothing will change in philosophy. it will still be washed up or near washed up veterans one 1 year deals with a .750 OPS and a few mid level “young” players who won’t get much better cause major league ready means what you see is what you get.
Heh. As if it matters who this organization hires to manage. They’re bad at evaluating talent and even worse at developing it. They’ve managed in the past decade to douse themselves in a culture of profound irrelevance. I mean, they had the best player in the sport this year, and still in terms of the national conversation they’re the least relevant team in their division. Texas and Houston made the playoffs, Seattle was a legit contender, and while I realize the A’s were only in the news for being a dumpster fire, at least people know they exist. The Angles meanwhile are baseball’s premier non-entity. And their poor fans are like Charlie Brown getting the football yanked out from under them every damn year. Nothing short of a complete house cleaning, probably from ownership on down, will make a difference there.
Fire yourself, Arturo Moreno!
Phil Nevin,
the modern Rea Sea.
That’s baseball, folks!
Their only hope is to miraculously bring in Theo Epstein and Buck Showalter.
Personally I’d say that any team with Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani in their lineup as well as Ohtani in their rotation, as long as they’ve put some decent enough players around them, it mostly falls on management, including the gm, as to who’s been out around them and how they’ve been used.
The Angels likely would’ve been better off letting their gm go along with the manager and starting fresh. Because the current regime couldn’t even put together a solid contender with Mike Trout and Ohtani. And now they think the gm is going to be able to put together a contender with just Mike Trout, who’s likely past his healthiest years?
If I were someone looking for a managerial job, I don’t think I’d even want to interview for the Angels job. You have no idea what kind of team you’re going to get at this point. But you can probably expect that you’ll likely just be running out Mike Trout and a cast of bad decisions to put your job on.
Turning over the GM and manager position every couple of years isn’t going to change anything. Look at the Angel’s as the test subject. Again, how does letting Nevin go change anything? It doesn’t. Instead of addressing real issues the organization is putting blame where it shouldn’t.
This team wasn’t going to win any games because of the manager but man it sure seemed like Nevin could figure out how to lose a few.
What quality manager is going to join the club with a meddling GM (let alone an owner like Moreno). Just go back to some of the comments made by Joe M. after he was fired (cut through his anger and you’ll get to some troubling facts about Minasian).
Replacing your winniing manager with a rookie at the beginning of the season, was a bonehead move. After that, Perry signs new players, which he should have done before firing Joe. Perry just didn’t like Joe. He hired Nevin with the intent of replacing Joe with a cheaper, less experienced skipper. One of the first things that highlights Phil’s watch; a brawl with Seattle that got our players hurt. We need an adult in charge of the kids, not their buddy.
Holy cow friends. Haven’t you worn the Angels complaining out?
Why don’t you go pound on the Padres, Mets or Yankees for a while?
Nevin is a bozo. The angels might be the worst organization in sports.
Good riddance to Neanderthal Nevin.
Assuming Ohtani leaves, trade Trout, too.
Hire Maddons little buddy Dave Rossie. What could go wrong?
It does seem unwise to switch managers that many times in that few of years