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Reds PBO Nick Krall Downplays Idea Of A Jonathan India Trade

By Mark Polishuk | November 18, 2023 at 1:17pm CDT

Because the Reds are loaded with up-and-coming young infield talent, Jonathan India has been seen a logical trade candidate since prior to summer’s trade deadline, and it is widely considered possible or even probable that the former NL Rookie of the Year could be moved this winter.  However, Reds president of baseball operations Nick Krall threw some cold water on the concept of an India trade when speaking with Gordon Wittenmyer of the Cincinnati Enquirer and other reporters Friday, saying “I wouldn’t say we are motivated.  If a deal comes around, we have to be open to anything.  But just motivated to move players off your roster just because ’that guy might not fit (a specific spot).’  That doesn’t make any sense.”

Naturally, some gamesmanship could be at work here.  Openly admitting that India was being shopped would do nothing for the Reds’ leverage in trade talks, and it might not play well within the Cincinnati clubhouse since India is a beloved team leader.  Krall’s “open to anything” stance in regards is common within front offices around baseball since you never know when a rival team might unexpectedly make a big offer, yet while he didn’t close the door on India being dealt, Krall also made several logical points about why the Reds would want to retain the second baseman’s services.

For one, it wasn’t long ago that India was seen as a key member of Cincinnati’s rebuild, after capturing NL ROY honors in 2021.  He has since been hampered by hamstring problems in 2022 and then a bout of plantar fasciitis in 2023, limiting him to 222 of a possible 324 games and an uninspiring .246/.333/.394 slash line over 960 plate appearances.  That works out to a 98 wRC+ over the last two seasons, and 1.7 fWAR total when also factoring in India’s subpar defensive numbers at second base.

While the emergence of Matt McLain, Elly De La Cruz, Noelvi Marte, Spencer Steer, and Christian Encarnacion-Strand has led to a crowded state in the Cincinnati infield, Krall disagreed with the concept that his team necessarily even has a surplus.

“You look at our club, and I think most guys were injured at some point last year.  So if you have a deep bench of guys that can play every day, that’s not a fault in our roster.  That’s a good thing,” Krall said.  “I would welcome that, to have guys who have experience to be able to play multiple positions, to be able to step into a spot and be a good player….[India is] a first-time arbitration-eligible player; we’ve got him under control for three more seasons.  He fits our club.  He fits our group.”

“If you said, ’Hey, you’ve got guys coming behind him or you’ve got guys that are pushing him out or that he doesn’t have a spot to play,’ that’s one thing.  But he does have a spot to play here.  There are at-bats here.  Are they going to be 650, 700 plate appearances in a season?  No, but that also gives you the ability to give guys days off and keep guys fresh and healthy throughout the course of the year.”

Krall isn’t wrong in extolling the benefits of depth, to say nothing of the fact that Steer (who debuted in 2022) is the only member of the younger group who has any big league experience prior to 2023.  In the event of an injury or even just a sophomore slump from one or two members of the prospect core, and suddenly the Reds might go from a surplus to a bit of a shortage of reliable infield possibilities.  That being said, if depth is what the Reds want, they could also look to add another infielder for more of a clear backup role, while trading India for help elsewhere on the roster.

While India’s fate is yet to be determined, the Reds did part ways with one infielder yesterday when Nick Senzel wasn’t tendered a contract before the Friday evening tender deadline.  Krall told MLB.com’s Joe Trezza and other reporters that the Reds first explored trading Senzel, saying “we talked to a handful of teams and obviously didn’t find the interest to move him.  So we decided this was probably best for our organization, to move on and let him find a place where he can play every day.”

Moreso than the $3MM salary Senzel was projected to earn in arbitration, the Senzel decision ultimately down to a roster crunch.  As Krall put it, “we’ve got seven infielders still on the 40-man.  We looked at where Senzel was and it was a little bit of, ’How does all this work?’ ”

It seems quite likely that Senzel will land a guaranteed contract with another team, and perhaps might yet be a late bloomer with a change of scenery heading into his age-29 season.  Debuting in 2019 as one of baseball’s top prospects, Senzel has a modest .239/.302/.369 slash line over 1366 career plate appearances.  Health problems and a number of positional changes have marked Senzel’s career, which Krall acknowledged in making the tough non-tender choice.

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Post a Comment

80 Comments

  1. DonOsbourne

    2 years ago

    He gone

    10
    Reply
    • refugee

      2 years ago

      Translation: they couldn’t agree on a deal to the Mariners who then pivoted and got Urias from Boston. So now they have to.l pretend India isn’t on the block

      18
      Reply
    • Shadow_Banned

      2 years ago

      India to the Indians

      3
      Reply
      • HubcapDiamondStarHalo

        2 years ago

        He’d have to change his last name to Guardia…

        12
        Reply
        • Biggie22

          2 years ago

          That’s great!!

          1
          Reply
    • DonOsbourne

      2 years ago

      No he is nOt!

      Reply
  2. PattheBat

    2 years ago

    I would keep him at 2B and sell high on McClain. Think MM’s whiff/K issues catch up w him soon enough

    1
    Reply
    • RedLegJason

      2 years ago

      Lol no

      5
      Reply
      • BeingARedsFanHurts

        2 years ago

        I’ve followed EDLC and Mclain through their entire careers. Not under a microscope, but if I had to pick one to be the consistent player, it’d be Mclain. Elly has incredible natural athleticism, strength, speed, etc…but fundamentally, he’s a long ways from being a true superstar. If they can get him to play with his team instead of just playing, he will be an MVP caliber guy.

        Right now, Mclain is where I’d put my trust though.

        Reply
    • joeshmoe11

      2 years ago

      That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard

      3
      Reply
      • PattheBat

        2 years ago

        McClain had a 30% K rate in AA. Has one hot month and all the sudden he’s Pedroia? lol.

        Reds aren’t getting anything useful for India. McClain, de la Cruz and Marte are the only ones that’d net the controllable 2/3 SP they covet, and the latter 2 are much more talented than Midclain

        Reply
        • RedLegJason

          2 years ago

          I wouldn’t call a .340 avg in AAA (40 games) and a .290 avg in MLB (89 games) “one hot month” but I guess it makes way more sense to just ignore this entire season (and 2021 Rookie/A where he hit .283) and say AA McLain from 2022 is the real McLain.

          1
          Reply
        • PattheBat

          2 years ago

          What was his K rate in mlb last year?

          Reply
        • earmbrister

          2 years ago

          Way to manipulate impressions by cherry picking stats. Why did you reach back to AA stats while ignoring AAA stats?

          I’ll answer your question though. His MLB K rate was 28.5%. And his OPS was .864 in his ROOKIE YEAR!

          McLain had a K rate of 34% (!) in AA. He destroyed AAA pitching in his introduction to the league in 2023. His OPS in AA of .816 grew to an OPS of 1.154 in AAA. Meanwhile, his K rate went from the previously mentioned 34% down to 20.5% in AAA. With such stellar numbers in his first taste of AAA, the Reds had no choice but to promote him to the big leagues.

          A .290/.357/.507/.864 line is quite nice for a rookie, much less a vet. I’ll take a few more McLains on the team

          1
          Reply
        • JoeBrady

          2 years ago

          There are always different ways to look at young players. In July-August, he had a 32/7 K/W, albeit with 5 HRs. He had 127Ks in 371 ABs in AA, which is pretty bad, did poorly in the AFL, but did well in AAA.

          So there is a lot of merit in both arguments. So to me, it is a question of how much you can get for McLain. It would be a disaster if McLain eventually morphed into India and the Reds didn’t capitalize.

          Reply
        • JoeBrady

          2 years ago

          Reds aren’t getting anything useful for India. McClain, de la Cruz and Marte are the only ones that’d net the controllable 2/3 SP they covet,
          ========================
          That’s the way I see it. As a RS fan, I’d prefer to pay a non-premium price for India than the premium price for McLain.

          Reply
        • PattheBat

          2 years ago

          Cool. Peripherals are far better predictors of future results than 3-month performance samples. His whiff rate is too high and he takes a ton of strikes.

          xWOBA was a solid .40 points lower than his actual output last year.

          We’ll see if he can improve in those areas. I wouldn’t bet on it

          Reply
    • DockEllisDee

      2 years ago

      Cut the pills in half Pat

      4
      Reply
      • titanic struggle

        2 years ago

        Hahahaaa!

        Reply
    • JoeBrady

      2 years ago

      That makes a lot of sense. There is a decent chance that India could out-hit McLain this year. Trading India, imho, is selling low, while McLain’s value might never be higher.

      2
      Reply
    • Seamaholic

      2 years ago

      I would too. McLain may be at his peak value right now. Wouldn’t be the first dude to outhit his own minor league record his first year, then regress as soon as the league gets a book.

      Reply
  3. iml12

    2 years ago

    Translation: all the offers have been trash, so we might just keep him.

    8
    Reply
    • good vibes only

      2 years ago

      This is the way

      2
      Reply
    • Big whiffa

      2 years ago

      Trades happen AFTER big free agents are signed by teams who miss out

      Reply
      • Seamaholic

        2 years ago

        There are no “big free agent” second basemen.

        2
        Reply
  4. octavian8

    2 years ago

    Krall spoke the truth about India. If we get a good fit for him in a trade then great. If not then we keep him and that could be a good thing too. Win-win situation. If they were looking just to unload salary he’d be gone already.

    2
    Reply
    • Bobcastelliniscat

      2 years ago

      It is the reason why they are trying to trade him. The season doesn’t start for five months.

      1
      Reply
  5. Lefty_Orioles_Fan

    2 years ago

    Well, I never understood as to why they would want to trade him
    He is a good player and helps the team

    2
    Reply
    • jdgoat

      2 years ago

      He’s been pretty mediocre offensively the past two seasons and is a pretty poor defender. Add in the infield depth they have and he seems to be the odd one out.

      11
      Reply
      • Lefty_Orioles_Fan

        2 years ago

        He has power and I thought he looked good when I saw him play

        1
        Reply
    • positively_broad_st

      2 years ago

      Reds have plenty of good infielders and have a lack of good pitching depth. Trading from an abundance in one area to address a shortage in the most vital area…

      1
      Reply
    • Bobcastelliniscat

      2 years ago

      There are 3.7 millions reasons why they want to trade him.

      2
      Reply
  6. RunDMC

    2 years ago

    I would love to play poker with Nick Krall.

    4
    Reply
    • Jesse Chavez enthusiast

      2 years ago

      Mah-mah-mah-mah

      Reply
  7. This one belongs to the Reds

    2 years ago

    They shouldn’t trade McLain either. The one they should sell high on, if any, in my opinion, people would go nuts about.

    If you listen to fans, though, the saying goes, you’ll end up sitting with them.

    Po Boy acrually makes some sense here, though I expect to see the hate by stats boys spew forth.

    2
    Reply
    • Bobcastelliniscat

      2 years ago

      Maybe Bob Castellini said he can live with a $31 million dollar team payroll. No, I am sorry, that can’t be it.

      2
      Reply
    • DonOsbourne

      2 years ago

      100% agree.

      1
      Reply
  8. Juggy

    2 years ago

    They are psychotic to trade in there. He’s a really good player. I don’t understand their logic.

    1
    Reply
    • good vibes only

      2 years ago

      They wouldn’t if it weren’t for the absolute embarrassment of riches they have in the infield, all of which have higher upside than India. I don’t think he’s a bad player but his defense is terrible and his bat isn’t as good as it was in 2021 even playing in a severe hitters park.

      The M’s have been listed as trade partners for him but if he is an average hitter in the Reds park, he’d be an awful player in the M’s park.

      2
      Reply
      • Bobcastelliniscat

        2 years ago

        Not sure it is an embarrassment of riches. McClain had a good season last year, but strikes out way too much. Elly was miserable after a quick start. Marte did well for the short time he was up. Honestly, they should deal Elly before he is recognized as a bust.

        4
        Reply
        • good vibes only

          2 years ago

          If I’m the M’s, I’d give the Reds any pitcher they want in exchange for Elly!

          1
          Reply
    • positively_broad_st

      2 years ago

      Gotta get pitching somehow. Reds aren’t buying premium free agents…

      Reply
      • Slider_withcheese

        2 years ago

        Hunter Greene, Nick Lodolo, Brandon Williamson, Andrew Abbott, Graham Ashcraft, Connor Phillips, and at some point Lyon Richardson is a heck of a staff. Maybe grab a #3 on a short term. What they need is an outfield bat.

        4
        Reply
        • good vibes only

          2 years ago

          I do think they need someone at the top or middle of their rotation that is a more consistent (and healthier) talent than those guys but they have a LOT of depth coming up in the minors. I really like Greene & Phillips out of that group but the rest have upside too if they can stay healthy. Chase Petty is further out for you guys but he could be a lot of fun too.

          4
          Reply
        • positively_broad_st

          2 years ago

          Yeah the Reds use another outfielder in the mix, but it’s not a good idea to have just enough pitching. Need to have a deeper list of potential starters, plus the Reds bullpen is shallow. Also have to accommodate for the attrition of pitchers due to injuries and/or poor performance. Some veteran presence in both the rotation and the bullpen would also be helpful to mentor these young fellas…

          3
          Reply
        • This one belongs to the Reds

          2 years ago

          Greene and Lodolo might as well pitch the same game because tgey are 3-4 innings pitchers most days. Until they learn to be more pitch efficient that isn’t changing. In fact, of that group, Ashcraft is probably the only one giving you innings consistently. Abbott and Williamson was getting better at giving six. The rest are a lot of ifs and buts. They needed a vet to show the young guys the ropes LAST year.

          Just throwing a lot of names out there with good “prospect” grades does not a staff make.

          3
          Reply
        • Bobcastelliniscat

          2 years ago

          That’s the exact same group of pitchers that led the Reds to third place last year. From August onwards the Reds had a team ERA of 6.00

          1
          Reply
    • websoulsurfer

      2 years ago

      Juggy, he was a really mediocre hitter, 100 OPS+, who played bad defense, -7 DRS/-6 OAA. Overall that is not a good player.

      The Reds do have some good young middle infield prospects that should take India’s place at 2B full time in 2024.

      1
      Reply
    • joeshmoe11

      2 years ago

      He’s not a really good player. Average hitter, AWFUL glove and can’t play anywhere else

      1
      Reply
  9. YourDreamGM

    2 years ago

    None of it matters. Players know it’s a business. Say he is desperately hoping to trade him or he is untouchable we love him doesn’t change leverage or trade value at all.

    Reply
  10. jdgoat

    2 years ago

    Instead of selling low on India, I’d probably try to make a bolder move and deal one or two of Marte/EDLC/CES/Steer for a top of the rotation arm. They should pretty much just be trying do the Luis Castillo deal in reverse.

    1
    Reply
    • Cincyfan85

      2 years ago

      The Castillo deal in reverse would be Edwin Arroyo, Cam Collier, and some young pitcher. Not the guys who’ve already made it up.

      Reply
    • good vibes only

      2 years ago

      As a M’s fan I love Castillo but I would absolutely give him back for EDLC

      1
      Reply
      • This one belongs to the Reds

        2 years ago

        I’d do that in a second.

        3
        Reply
  11. Bobcastelliniscat

    2 years ago

    Interpretation “We have our team payroll down to just $31 million dollars. If our payroll get any lower, the league might give us some unwanted attention”.

    4
    Reply
  12. Dodger Dog

    2 years ago

    Joey votto was also a respected team leader

    4
    Reply
  13. sacrifice

    2 years ago

    They have a better guy .
    They have McClain.
    India is history I hope this new America’s favorite team gets some nice pitching for India

    Reply
    • Seamaholic

      2 years ago

      Careful with dudes who look better in their rookie MLB season than they did in the minors. It almost never sticks.

      Reply
  14. Wire to wire 2024

    2 years ago

    Can we at least pretend this means we are buyers this year…

    Reply
    • This one belongs to the Reds

      2 years ago

      Nowhere is that being said and knowing the way Po Boy has operated, I wouldn’t hold my breath.

      1
      Reply
      • Bobcastelliniscat

        2 years ago

        Exactly correct. The only Reds rumors so far has been about who they are getting rid of.

        1
        Reply
  15. raulp

    2 years ago

    India’s trade value is very low after two consecutive subpar seasons and several health issues. Keeping him around for one more season is the right choice to allow him recover his form while taking a closer look at the new guys. Then make a decision.

    2
    Reply
  16. websoulsurfer

    2 years ago

    That is because at this point India has practically no trade value. Krall is hoping beyond hope that he can come in and play a utility role and increase his offensive output so some team will take him off the Reds hands at the deadline. India is now arbitration eligible and his salary is going way up. If he plays to his 2023 numbers in 2024 he will be a non-tender candidate at this time next year.

    2
    Reply
    • norcalblue

      2 years ago

      Bingo

      Reply
  17. DaveSJI

    2 years ago

    That article seems shoddy to me. I mean, teams come knocking on the Reds’ door, they listen and, now, they’re being shady about trying to trade India? Since when were we ever trading Jonathon India? This has had the feeling of a story developing a life of its own more than anything factual from day one. Do better, MLTR.

    2
    Reply
    • This one belongs to the Reds

      2 years ago

      Honestly it was the media as a whole, not just MLBTR.

      As usual, the media added two plus two and got 16 because of bias.

      1
      Reply
  18. JoeBrady

    2 years ago

    But just motivated to move players off your roster just because ’that guy might not fit (a specific spot).’ That doesn’t make any sense.”
    =============================
    Krall’s statement makes no sense. Assuming that one thinks that India is a starting quality 2B, then letting him sit on the bench, instead of getting a starting-quality player back in return, makes no sense.

    This is classic mis-direction, and won’t work. Seattle’s trade for Urias just eliminated on of India’s landing spots.

    Reply
  19. Joel P

    2 years ago

    You need 10 guys for 9 spots. I think there is plenty of room for India, at least until the trade deadline. They have a lot of unproven guys. They did get rid of Senzel so that thins things out a bit. I believe Krall if they get an offer they like sure but they can find a place for him to play if they dont.

    1
    Reply
  20. kevnames42

    2 years ago

    Why not try him out as an outfielder to take Senzel’s spot as the right-handed complement bat?

    Reply
    • jbryant0693

      2 years ago

      His bat won’t play as an OFer.

      1
      Reply
      • This one belongs to the Reds

        2 years ago

        Let’s see, they had Fairchild on the outfield, Senzel, Barrero and even Lorensen at one point.

        1
        Reply
        • jbryant0693

          2 years ago

          You made my point, thanks.

          Reply
      • kevnames42

        2 years ago

        He wouldn’t be playing everyday anyway. They have enough pop against righties in the OF with Friedl, Fraley, and Benson. At least this gives India some opportunities to increase his value for a possible trade down the road.

        Reply
  21. Insert Shrug Emoji

    2 years ago

    uninspiring .246/.333/.394
    modest .239/.302/.369

    Looking for a hierarchy key of mediocrity adjectives

    Reply
  22. Degaz

    2 years ago

    “It seems quite likely that Senzel will land a guaranteed contract with another team”.

    Not sure how you reach that logic. He had his best year since his rookie year and was still a 0.0 bWAR player. Career -1.8bWAR for his career. Take away his 2nd overall pick pedigree and I would say that type of player who will be 29 has no little chance of a MLB guaranteed contract.

    1
    Reply
    • jbryant0693

      2 years ago

      As a utility player, Senzel will get multiple guaranteed MLB offers, just not at his $3M arb amount. He can play 6 positions and is a LHP masher. Those two things are substantial value to some teams.

      1
      Reply
  23. SupremeZeus

    2 years ago

    All the posturing in the world isn’t going to up the offers. The Reds value India far more than any potential suitor values him. India is a buy low candidate. Likely to stay put.

    Reply
    • Fire Krall

      2 years ago

      Krall suxs! He makes my skin crawl!

      Reply
  24. braves95 2

    2 years ago

    For a split second I saw Jonathan Indian and KBO

    And thought of Kyle Kendrick prank lol

    Reply
  25. rememberthecoop

    2 years ago

    I don’t know that I agree. You need to supplement your weaknesses by utilizing your strength. Better ROI.

    Reply

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