Free agent right-hander Spencer Turnbull has been retroactively awarded a full year of service in 2023 despite being on optional assignment from mid-August until the end of the season. The MLB Players Association released a statement from Turnbull on the matter, relayed by Evan Drellich of The Athletic, explaining the issue. “At the time I was optioned in August 2023,” the statement reads, “I was dealing with a foot injury. I raised this with the Club. After further review of my medical condition, the Club has now agreed to reverse the option and I am receiving full major league service for the 2023 season.”
Turnbull, now 31, seemingly butted heads with the Tigers a couple of times in the past year. He was initially optioned to the minors in May but that option was rescinded less than a week later, with Turnbull instead being placed on the major league injured list due to neck discomfort. “After Spencer left the room I got a call from him directly in which he disclosed some neck discomfort,” president of baseball operations Scott Harris said at that time. “As soon as we heard that, we set up an appointment for him with our doctor. We also had him see a specialist out of state. We had those doctors discuss what’s going on with his neck. They confirmed the injury and we placed him on the injured list as of Sunday.”
He was later transferred to the 60-day IL and wasn’t reinstated until the third week of August, when he was promptly optioned to the minors again. Shortly thereafter, reports emerged that the relationship between the pitcher and the club was fraught, with Turnbull referencing a cracked toenail at that time. Turnbull was just non-tendered by the club last week and reports emerged that he had asked to be traded prior to the deadline in early August. But no deal came together and he stayed on the roster until the non-tender last week.
There are multiple issues at play here. Injured players at the big league level are supposed to be placed on the major league injured list and cannot be optioned to the minors when they are hurt. While on the IL, they continue to collect major league service time and pay. With Turnbull optioned for the final month-plus of the season, he finished just shy of five years of service. By now getting that extra option reversed, his service time will go beyond the five-year plateau.
That is important for Turnbull on a couple of fronts. For one, players with more than five years of service can’t be optioned to the minors without their consent. Prior to this ruling, Turnbull was still going to have an option year remaining in 2024, allowing a club to sign him but keep him as depth in the minors in they wanted. That will no longer be on the table. Secondly, if Turnbull eventually spends all of 2024 in the majors or on the IL, he will get beyond six years of service and qualify for free agency again. Prior to today’s change, a club could have theoretically signed him for 2024 and then retained him via arbitration for 2025, since Turnbull would have been just shy of six years in that scenario. All in all, Turnbull has gained some more control over his future than he would have otherwise had.
Prior to the odyssey of being optioned and then landing on the IL and then the second option, Turnbull’s 2023 season began terribly. He made seven starts to begin the campaign and had an ERA of 7.26. That was on the heels of missing the entire 2022 season while recovering from Tommy John surgery, but he had a good run prior to that. From 2019 to 2021, he threw 255 innings with a 4.13 ERA, 21.9% strikeout rate, 9.1% walk rate and 50.3% ground ball rate.
So he hid two injuries?
Yea he’s doing a great job of burning a bridge down to the ground. Won’t get another job like that. Stupid for $200k. He’s obviously a jerk. Good luck and good riddance
It could be worth millions. Getting to arbitration and FA earlier is valuable.
With a 7.26 ERA in 2023, a 3-17 record in 2019 and a career WHIP of 1.359? He should try to go back in time. Not ahead.
He is an above average pitcher over his career.
Would you do that for 200k? Id do it for 2k, he will get a hot somewhere else at least a minor league deal for a couple years with a couple different teams. Detroit has to be a rough place to play, not because Detroit is a bad place to live but because it’s cold as hell to start the year there and if you make the post season it’s cold as hell to
For the median U.S. household that is 3 years pay for all income earners combined.
Median U.S. household doesn’t have to pay a lease on two homes or live out of a hotel when being shuffled between AAA and majors. The idea that AAAA players are simply rolling in dough isn’t a reality.
Turnbull got a $900,000 signing bonus.
Rock & roll musicians and minor league baseball players have a lot in common. They live hard on the road for years chasing a dream that won’t happen for most of them…
The athletes live in Oakland County, just north of Detroit. It’s one of the richest counties in America.
Murphy NFLD – You know a big chunk of the teams in MLB play in the same or very similar climates, right? Some even worse. NY, Boston, Minnesota, Chicago, Cleveland, and so on.
Neither do baseball players. In the minors the team must provide accommodations.
He most certainly will. At a minimum, he’ll get an MiLB deal with a spring invite. Decent chance to get an MLB deal as well given how many teams are desperate for starting pitching. THE ONLY reason the Tigers reversed that decision is because they non-tendered him. He is now always going to be a free agent when his contract is up. Stopping short of a full year of service time last year gave the Tigers an additional year of control, which is now not relevant given the non-tender. So why fight it?
Oh he’ll get a major league deal easily. And maybe not only one year. Dude’s very talented and not old.
More likely he’ll be blackballed like Trevor Bauer
@seam
He might get a major league deal but I’d bet a whole lot it won’t be for more than a year. Maybe a year plus a team option
I’d venture a one year with team option year two contract on him. Lower the risk of paying for IL time, or God forbid, 2 years of IL time.
He may be young, but his best WHIPs may be behind him.
Turnbull reminds me of a woman who cheats on her workaholic husband and then sues him for custody of the kids just so she can maximize her alimony and child support. This decision to reward Turnbull is just wrong. Now he’s gonna fix himself up, latch on with some tennis pro, and keep breaking her exhusband’s heart when she emotionally abuses those kids that she doesn’t really know how to nurture.
Screw this crap!
Highly relevant article. Great post fellas!
It’s relevant if you’re aware of what went on last year.
No Tomas it isn’t. Good day.
Sounds like the typical liberal argument, shut down the conversation and just say you’re wrong! lol….no dialect or context needed, you’re just wrong!
Baseball site, not politics. Once you try to apply a political label to a baseball conversation you are automatically wrong. Goodbye.
Braveshomer, I didn’t have the energy to argue. I didn’t want to elaborate any further. I normally don’t do that but felt it necessary just this once haha
Found the liberal
You’re probably liberal too, just hate the label. Most people are.
What a naughty name caller you are.
Stuster= the name caller
You have made five comments here and “don’t have the energy to argue.” It seems like that is the only reason you posted in the first place. Are you getting enough attention?
lol fair enough Subatomic…and Pads Fan you just did the same exact thing. Irony is a lost concept on some people I guess
MTDewd, huh?? Haha
Why do people assume someone is one way or the other?
I am neither, for instance.
Life is much more than politics.
Most people have values. And they align broadly with one or the other of the major politico-social blocs in the U.S. If you are saying you “aren’t one way or the other,” that means either a) you ARE one way or the other but don’t like to be labelled as such, for whatever reason, which is fine; or b) you have no values, which is not fine.
Politics is not a game. It’s how we run our society. Dems and Repubs don’t hate each other because they steal each other’s lunch money. They have fundamentally different values.
Finally, independents nearly always vote the same way. They just don’t like to be part of a party.
Good point. The typical right wing argument would be to shoot you with a semi-automatic.
I think you’d be surprised at the number of votes “none of the above” would garner in an election these days.
Classic liberals would hate the liberals of today.
Then why are all the mass shooters leftists?
@seamaholic
Oh give me a break. So I can’t like a couple of things from one party and like a couple things from another? I have to draw a firm line in the sand and hate the people on the other? And If I don’t agree with you I have no values or code of ethics? No, I don’t live life like that I’m not going to give all of myself to one side when I don’t like all that is going on in that party. You can think for yourself, you don’t have to align with whatever talking head that you see on CNN or Fox.
@HOF
Christ, yeah. Worse type of people draw lines and the sand and blindly hate one another. People have more in common than they might think
Thank you, I agree
Besides my horrible grammar there….It’s disappointing that more people aren’t free thinkers. Nobody needs to draw a line in the sand and line up with one set of ideals. That’s a notion that I just don’t understand. Maybe have a conversation with different types of people every once in awhile.
All the mass shooters seem to have Conservative values – they hate non-whites, non-Christians and non-heterosexuals and PARTICULARLY liberals.
You know how everyone can tell you’re wrong, jamming? When you say ALL! Mass shooters don’t fit into any single category except they are crazy! Some seem conservative while others have Marxist manifestos and postings.
Release the manifesto!
Good luck to anyone who signs this guy.
The team will get a talented pitcher with a good track record before his injury. I don’t mind him trying to improve his contract situation.
Gruß,
BSHH
He just can’t stay healthy. There is always something wrong that keeps him off the mound. That’s not his fault, but concealing it from the team until after they option him is. I have never heard of another player doing this and now Turnbull is done it twice in less than a year,
It seems the Tigers and HARRIS are the ones making the admission of guilt. Shouldn’t the medical staff be in constant communication with players during recovery periods? First, HARRIS had problems communicating with E-Rod (in spite of the no trade list being in writing) and now they didn’t react in a timely manner when told of injuries, by Turnbull.
We will never know the full details.
What i read, it didnt appear to be Tigers at fault in this instance. It almost sounds as if Turnbull would have Pitched through injuries, and not disclose them.
But if he were optioned, he will reveal injuries.
It is unheard of much like the article says, but Turnbull was near the threshhold of getting more service time. He was probably aware. And hoping to accrue it.
But who knows.
No. It’s the player’s responsibility to be forthright when he’s injured. If he was really hurt when he was scuffing along early last season he could easily have said so. OK, so he’s a competitor and wants to gut it out, maybe. Or, he was thinking the Tigers don’t have a ton of options and I can just work it out up here in the majors rather in the minors.
I don’t think he was really hurt. I think he knew he wasn’t being effective and just didn’t want to ride busses in the minors to figure it out.
I think he’s a prima donna and whoever signs him deserves what they get.
ineffective
Stymedone…you are one of like 3 Tigers fans who don’t get that Harris is NOT the problem this time!!! Give it up dude.
I don’t know how you get that. I think Harris is excellent.
He tried with Turnbull. Harris’s 1st responsibility is to the Tigers and his roster. He tried. Scott Boras didn’t want any part of that. Boras’s 1st responsibility is to Turnbull. Turnbull pays him. The Tigers pay Turnbull. Spencer went with the guy he pays.
Interestingly, I believe the Tigers are going to be way more competitive, sooner, than most around hear think. Turnbull had a chance to be part of something special. Like ERod, he wasn’t thinking long term. I’m going out on a limb and say the Tigers won’t miss either Turnbull or ERod….AT ALL.
Turnbull is gaming the system. Tigers will DFA him or trade him
He’s a -.2 WAR
He was already non-tendered I thought
He was non tendered three days ago
He’s a FA as the article says.
The guy is always hurt. Tigers stuck by him through Tommy John and other various injuries. When he came back he pitched like crap. They sent him down and he whined and complained. Very ungrateful player. Anyone wants him he’s all yours. Good riddance.
Agree, GOODBYE
This is how chronically bad organizations think (not just baseball teams). They lose all creative imagination and just get angry and chaotic. He’ll pop up with the Dodgers or Guardians or some other team that is good with pitchers, and will be a solid mid-rotation starter.
The Tigers are pretty decent at developing pitching. Hard to develop a pitcher when he refuses to pitch more than 50 innings a year. He could thrive in the bullpen. I have a hard time seeing him agree to that though.
No they aren’t. Their pitching prospects all end up hurt. At a certain point, that’s on them, not the kids.
The tigers have developed many starting pitchers who have had long careers. The Tigers rotation will be headlined by Skubal, Manning, Mize next year barring trade all home grown decent pitchers. They have developed two active HOF SPs. They have developed other guys like Smyly and Porcello . Ofc they’ve had failures like Daniel Norris too. I never said they were as good as Cleveland but they are definitely better at developing pitching than many other organizations. Their hitting development on the other hand is dreadful.
Turnbull is the bad actor here not the Tigers.
Or start the All-Star game!
Didn’t he reveal injuries two separate times when the club tried to option him? Was he hiding the injuries? Or was he making the injuries up? I’m beginning to understand why the club parted ways with him. Either way, there seems to be an integrity issue based on reporting.
The mind of Spencer Turnbull is unknowable. He is in a perpetual state of being injured while also somehow being unfairly held back by the team. Ignore the fact that the results were putrid. I am sure he has an excuse. This guy used to be my favorite player, now I am glad he’s gone.
IMHO they were injuries that most pitchers deal with all the time and just gut it out.
He wanted the service time.
Remember he hired Scott Boras just weeks before this all started.
“Scott, I stink. What do I do?”
As the kids say these days.. ” deuces” ✌️✌️
Is this the kind of stuff they are investigating Eppler for with the Mets?
Eppler was for phantom IL stuff but I could be wrong…
Is he hurting himself with this?
With what? He’s a free agent, and will likely make about what he would have in arbitration, but play for a better team and get a fresh start.
Doubtful at his age coming off the season he just had. He’ll probably end up on a minor league prove yourself deal.
I doubt he plays for a better team. Oakland, KC, Pittsburgh here I come.
So this just makes him a FA right? And any team that signs him has to treat him like a Super 2?
I mean, I think someone will offer him something. I think he could get 1 year/$2.58M or maybe 2 years/$5.16M or maybe even 3 years/$7.65M or something but that’s about as good as it’d get. Basically saying to him:
You wanna play this game, both metaphorically and literally? You gotta suck up some pride and take your medicine. You’ll get paid millions, you’ll make a few hundred thousand more next year and a little more money upfront over the next couple of years, but you will have to sacrifice potentially tens of millions to stay in this business, because of how you handled this situation.
Sometimes rewarding someone a tiny bit for their bad behavior and then locking them into that reward is a greater punishment than completely cutting them out and giving them a chance to truly capitalize.
Gilded cages are still cages.
I really can’t see how he gets a major league deal. The results are not there, and he is anything but a character guy. He’s not even an inning eater. So what is he? Not a major league pitcher.
I basically agree, but pitching being what it is, I can’t see him being blackballed out of the sport entirely and I think someone will think they can fix him and give him a major league deal that is very cheap to a team and a massive underpay if they can fix his issues and get the version of him that got overhyped a couple years ago.
That second paragraph was perfectly said. Great take from you TTO, as usual.
He was already a free agent (as the article says). He was non-tendered a week ago. The whole Super 2/arbitration question is moot now. He will sign for what he signs for, and for how long, then become a free agent again.
He’ll get way more than $3m AAV, unless his medicals are bad. That we don’t know. This guy had borderline elite stuff before missing 2022.
IMO, he gets s split minor/major contract with a ST invitation. I doubt anyone is signing him expecting him to be a key part of the BP.
I think he will get plenty of money if he has 1-2 consistent seasons under his belt between 2024 and 2025, but right now I can’t see him getting more than a token minimum raise from his $2.15M salary from 2023, maybe rounded up to $3M and it may take an extra season after that to really re-establish himself, but not more than that.
I mean- yeah, maybe he gets like 1 year/$4M for 2024 and then someone gives him like 1 year/$12.5M with some kind of mutual option or something in 2025, because pitching is at a premium, but again I think an enterprising club will ‘punish’ him and get value out of him by trying to sign him to a multi-year deal that pays him a few million a season but in the grand scheme of things prevents him from getting paid more on the open market- so you give him $6M over two seasons or $9M over three or heck, $10.5M over two or three seasons- something that’s too lucrative from a person in his position to turn down and risk getting nothing, but cheap enough that if he does bounce back, he will know how much money he is losing out on because he was forced to take the deal rather than just going through standard arbitration years and then hitting the open market and getting multiple years at a value of well over $10M a season if not over $20M a season, per the currently trending market rates for pitching.
No big deal. He was 6 days short of 5 years when the Tigers optioned him. His foot/toe injury was BS and Turnbull knows it but was using as a reason not to be optioned. Had the Tigers kept him they would have likely continued to fight this because the extra year of control would be valuable. But now, with them non-tendering him, no real reason to fight it. And at this juncture, the service time issue isn’t that big of a deal. He’ll perpetually be a free agent every time his contract expires.
This likely won’t be an issue for whomever signs him. But his lousy performance last year will be.. He has a decent shot at an MLB deal but won’t be for much. He also is absolutely going to get signed by someone even if it is an MiLB deal with a spring invite. He is not that far removed from being a pretty decent pitcher. Someone will take a chance on him.
Cracked toe nail?
” I just got optioned, drop a dumbbell on my toe, quick”. ,
Does the Tigers, and Ilitch owe that loafer more money ? Good grief, good riddance.
Good for Turnbull. Tigers screwed him over for a year’s service, obviously they were wrong. What message does that send to potential free agents? I suspect Turnbull to be a great candidate for a comeback year, even if just a 3-4 starter.
“…obviously they were wrong.” No, Wing, Turnbull only revealed his injuries after he was sent down. It is only his fault if he told the team and they ignored him. Turnbull didn’t allege anything like that.
Meant to say it is only the team’s fault if they ignored hi.
Actually, Tigers were manipulating his service time, Turnbull was upset and found an out in the contract which made Tigers brass mad. Turnbull was awarded his year of service, so he was right. The guy pitched a no hitter for you and then you screw him over for 5 days.
How do you know he “found an out in the contract?” For that to be true, he would have either not reported an injury or faked it!
You don’t non-tender guys if you are trying to manipulate their service clock. Turnbull was optioned over his 7.00 ERA not his service clock.
Players can’t be optioned if injured
That’s the point.
Yes, HARRIS and the team have admitted they were wrong, hence the change in service time.
That’s what it sounds like to me. Service time is HUGE in MLB.
Did they admit they were wrong? I never heard Harris say that, but ok Stymee if you say so. However, they could have just consented to Turnbull to avoid a contentious situation; giving him the service time hurts them in no way because they non-tendered him. This becomes a potential issue for whomever signs him.
Stymedone…For Love of the Game is right. Cite your source on that dude. That’s just made up BS that Harris said that.
From the article – “At the time I was optioned in August 2023,” the statement reads, “I was dealing with a foot injury. I raised this with the Club. After further review of my medical condition, the Club has now agreed to reverse the option and I am receiving full major league service for the 2023 season.”
Turnbull told the team and they ignored it which is against the terms dealing with options in the CBA. The Tigers were trying to save a few hundred thousand and it backfired on them.
Tigers weren’t wrong Red Wings you are. They made the right choice.
Tigers changed their decision because MLBPA was going to file a claim against them, Tigers knew they would lose. So how exactly did they make the ‘right’ decision? They could have avoided all this. I suspect they will regret this more mid season when Turnbull is healthy and pitching well. But Tigers are loaded with starters, oh wait, not really.
Skubal, Mize, Olsen, Manning, Gipson-Long, with Faedo, Brieske who can eat some innings too. Even Wentz pitched better than Turnbull. Madden, Jobe, Montero and Flores on the farm. Plus they are looking to sign a Free agent or two. I think they are in good shape dude.
So you think having not one starting pitcher who actually pitched more than half the season is ‘good shape’? That is bizarre.
Two years in a row they have needed the equivalent of two starting staffs due to injuries. I agree they need more pitchers, just not Turnbull. I’d rather they grabbed some Rule V guys like J.T. Ginn than see Turnbull put the Olde English D on again. He has burned his bridges.
A “split toenail” is hard to do in baseball, let alone when you aren’t even on the field. Stretching the definition of baseball-related injuries. This doesn’t make Turnbull look like his mentality isn’t grifty. At least this is what the surface looks like; it could be a different story somehow.
Ever have someone in cleats step on your foot? I broke my big toe that way in softball.
Any team who signs Turnbull is looking for trouble. Good luck in the KBO or Japan Spencer
Teams did this to ML:B players for years abusing their shuttle of players to the minors to delay arbitration, service time clock and free agency.
And, optioning players who are hurt takes them off the major league medical and, oftentimes, salary scales.
Turnbull was in the right here.
He was trying to get back to his old high playing/pitching level.
Turnbull, like many players, often times ignore what they perceive to be minor injuries to fight hard to retain their major league job(s).
The Tigers needed Turnbull back in the rotation last year.
He was not ready, rushed back and got hurt again.
Turnbull had the best stuff of any of the young Tigers pitchers when he is healthy.
Turnbull also pitched a NO HITTER for the Tigers.
This is another case of a New Front Office that did not draft Turnbull and did not develop him, not seeing his “”body of work” as a Tigers pitcher and not cutting him any slack
Forcing Turnbull back too quickly from injuries, not giving him RESPECT AND THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, OPTIONING TURNBULL TO THE MINORS AND NOT CHECKING TO SEE IF HE WAS INJURED FIRST,
when Turnbull had a prior track record as a “horse” who CARRIED Tigers rotation before “Tommy John” surgery shows that Scott Harris and the Tigers Front Office
was “tone deaf” and HANDLED TURNBULLL SITUATION VERY POORLY.
Some team will take a flyer on Spencer Turnbull.
Turnbull will be a candidate for “Comeback Player of the Year” if healthy.
The Padres need 3 Starters?!
Turnbull would be a great option for a #4 or #5 Starter or team depth for a Team like the Padres for reasonable cost.
Spot on SportsFan
The Tigers are not the villain here. It was a greasy move (or two) by Turnbull. Read a little dude.
1st “greasy move by Tigers when they tried to option him in May – Scott Harris said at that time. “As soon as we heard that, we set up an appointment for him with our doctor. We also had him see a specialist out of state. We had those doctors discuss what’s going on with his neck. They confirmed the injury and we placed him on the injured list as of Sunday.”
Amen, Tigers aren’t same as they were with MR I ! No pride or loyalty like he had
Yes 14! No Harris is a puppet, Momma Illitch is calling the shots. We got spoiled with Mr I, no way he’d accept this travesty we call a ball club. As for improving, great, but if we’re going to build from within play our prospects and quit signing every reject instead.
Therecare positives and negatives so far with Harris. 12 game improvement over last year with lots of players I already listed elsewhere on the site having good years and more on the way. Good chance to make the playoffs this year as well. I agree with playing the prospects but we need good vets like Canha too. If they want to improve, sit Baez.
It also could have been a case where he gets sent down and suddenly he’s hurt again. That might be why he wasn’t taken seriously and thought of as crying wolf again. Won’t be the first time that’s happened, and won’t be the last.
I’ve seen this before!
Next injury will be vertigo. When that’s up…. Anxiety.
We should make Bingo cards for his injuries!
Glad he’s gone and glad the Tigers resolved this issue so other Boras clients will sign.
He leaves a meeting, and then calls the guy he was meeting with to reveal an injury: WTF is that all about. Suss as.
The team doctors confirmed the injury. Its on the Tigers.
Whatever. It’s still a dick move. Tell him you are hurt face to face. He is right there in front of you. Seriously, some players are like 13yo’s.
When this was announced did Ed McMahon show up on his doorstep with balloons and show models
Good for Spencer! For all the trolls saying he’s a POS , remember Mize had TJ surgery and never made it back in 23, don’t hear everyone dissing him. I don’t think Turnbull was ready to return when he tried too soon, but he’s not a top prospect, and he couldn’t get back to where he was before. I’m hoping he shows up Harris and his clown show next year, then maybe Illitch will find us a real President/GM that can build a winning team. Siding with our sad excuse for a front office is ridiculous, an expansion team could have gotten competitive quicker than Detroit has since our last good team in 14!
Since 2014 you say? Apparently Harris is to blame for that? Makes total sense. A 12 game increase in the standings wasn’t a step forward? Carpenter, Rogers, Ibanez, Skubal, Olsen, Foley, Holton and Greene taking a step forward wasn’t a positive? Lots of players like Jobe, Montero, Madden Jung, Malloy, Leonard, Dingler and Keith (who is a potential ROY) taking steps forward in the minors isn’t a positive? Two Tigers throwing no hitters (Manning and Lorenzen with Phil) isn’t a positive?
You seem hyper focused on the negatives like the Erod trade fiasco or the miss on resigning Candelario. Every GM has misses. Impatience and throwing money around doesn’t win games just ask the Mets who the Tigers finished ahead of in the standings.
Candy wasn’t a miss. He was coming off a down year and was due a substantial raise. Meanwhile, the Tigers expected Kriedler to take over at 3rd until he was injured. Vierling/Maton was a backup plan that came to fruition.
From a purely fan point of view, this move sucked. From a strategic, baseball business point of view, this move was prudent.
I don’t disagree and did not when they nade the move to cut him. In hindsight it was a whiff but when a dude hits .220 ish with an under .300 OBP that not much to get excited about.
As well as he was pitching last year, I can’t understand why the Tigers would want to send him down to Toledo.
Sarcasm Font Please