Tigers right-hander Spencer Turnbull was scratched from a start with Triple-A Toledo yesterday, as noted by Chris McCosky of The Detroit News, due to a cracked toenail. It’s another setback in what has been a brutal season for Turnbull as he returns to the mound for the first time since undergoing Tommy John surgery early in the 2021 campaign.
McCosky adds that the relationship between Turnbull and the organization has deteriorated significantly throughout the 2023 season. Turnbull posted a brutal 7.26 ERA and 5.55 FIP in 31 innings of work across seven starts earlier in the season before the Tigers attempted to option him to Triple-A. Upon being optioned, Turnbull disclosed some neck discomfort to the Tigers and visits with doctors led to the club placing Turnbull on the injured list in early May. Turnbull posted a 7.71 ERA in four rehab starts with Toledo before being activated from the IL toward the end of August and was immediately optioned to Triple-A. Yesterday would have marked Turnbull’s first appearance since being activated and optioned.
There are plenty of contractual nuances to the situation. Turnbull is currently just six days short of reaching five years of MLB service time, at which point the club would no longer be able to option him to Triple-A without his consent. If he remains in the minors through the end of the 2023 season, his free agency would then be delayed until after the 2025 campaign. Of course, it’s possible that between Turnbull’s difficult 2023 campaign and the decaying relationship between club and player, the Tigers could opt not to tender him a contract for the 2024 campaign.
McCosky indicates that Turnbull is “most likely” seeking independent medical counsel, though he also suggests that the Tigers may not accept that counsel. If tensions continue to rise, the Tigers could place Turnbull on the restricted list. Turnbull, who would not accrue MLB service time or be paid during a stint on the restricted list, could then file a grievance against the Tigers in response.
More from Detroit…
- The Tigers placed outfielder Riley Greene on the 10-day IL this afternoon with elbow inflammation. As noted by Jason Beck of MLB.com, Greene is dealing with swelling and soreness in his elbow following a diving catch during last night’s game against the White Sox. Greene will undergo an MRI in 7-10 days to determine the severity of the issue, though with the season’s final month upon us and the Tigers all but guaranteed to miss the postseason, it’s fair to wonder if the injury brings an end to Greene’s 2023 campaign. Greene’s played well in his sophomore season as a major leaguer, combining strong outfield defense with a .288/.349/.447 slash line (119 wRC+) in 416 trips to the plate this year.
- McCosky also relayed recent comments from manager AJ Hinch regarding shortstop Javier Baez’s playing time going forward. Hinch admitted to reporters that playing time would be “at a premium” going forward with the expanded rosters, and that as a result Baez will “play a little more sporadically than we’re used to” going forward. Baez landed with Detroit prior to the 2022 season on a six-year, $140MM contract that has the look of an albatross nearly two years in. In 262 games since joining the Tigers, Baez has slashed just .229/.271/.360 with a wRC+ of 74. While he’s largely posted strong defensive marks during his time in Detroit, Baez’s days as an offensive contributor and above-average regular with Chicago (113 wRC+ from 2018 to 2021) seem to be behind him, and a reduction in playing time could make sense for the 30-year-old veteran as the Tigers continue to look toward the future.
Cut Baez. I’d rather have Niko Goodrum back.
He’s become Jose Iglesias with an attitude.
Jose career K rate 13.3%. Javy 29.9%. I’d honestly take Iggy back over him. He had no power but always put the ball in play.
There was an article regarding Tigers eating the rest of Baez’ contract, he is just so bad.
Won’t happen. Ilitch is too cheap.
“Too cheap”..The Ilitch family has spent HUNDREDS of MILLIONS, if not Billions of dollars trying to bring a WS title to Detroit. How many other teams have had 3+ Hall of Famers(Verlander, Scherzer, Miggy)on their teams in the last 20+ years?…The “spend stupid money” and “too cheap” narrative, is only for those that don’t understand or watch much MLB, right Jm207*2?
How many of those guys were signed under Chris Ilitch? Exactly.
I guess going into detail about “winning cycles” and “windows of contention” would be a waste of time with naive people who think all you have to do in baseball to win is “spend money”, right Jm207*2?…Why don’t you look at the teams who spent “stupid money” this year and see how that worked out(Angels, Mets, Padres, Rangers).
Illitch Sr was the spender, not Jr. He has said he would start upping payroll after Cabrera was off the books. Let’s see if it happens.
Are you talking to yourself? Who said anything about only having to spend money to win?
It’s Mrs I (Marion) who is the cheapskate and won’t let Her son Chris spend the money. She wasn’t able to control the purse strings from Mike (Mr I) but she sure as hell can with her son. The reason she’s not actively in the picture is due to her ownership of Motor City Casino and MLBs rule against owners being involved w Casinos, but she is the real villain here when it comes to spending money on the Tigers.
I have to echo mlb fan here. The Tigers are obviously running a lower payroll than usual this year, but it’s mostly because they’re in a transition phase and feeling out which players to go forward with. The senior Ilitch always spent money when he had to and I’m sure the younger Ilitch will do that when the Tigers are ready to make another splash.
You mean fleecing the public? Don’t you? I watch. Haven’t won since when?
Really, BS a different fan base.
We saw the opportunities that were completely, 100% ignored.
How long have you been watching?
You sure seem.to think you have some understanding. Do you understand what BS is?
Tiger fans understand very, very thoroughly!
There is a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you ,too!
All they had to do was to try. Everything was laid out for them…it was there…but they didn’t even try.
Truly, it was there.
You have to be fair. Chris Illich inherited an old team full of heavy contracts then he made two more with Javier Baez and Eduardo Rodriguez when the team appeared close to contention.
I think the Tigers are playing it correctly. Javy Baez isn’t good defender and hopeless at the plate. He should be on the bench. He is an intentional liability to the team if he’s not in the top three in the lineup.
If he doesn’t want to be a bench player the next 4 years, opt out.
I guess we have no choice except to wait and see if that actually happens.
No one is asking the younger Mr I to spend “stupid money”. Asking him to dump sunk cost is completely different. With this division in its current state, it sure would have been nice to have seen Candelario kept, rather than non tendered over money ($1mm), since they did not have a replacement for him. How can any team in this division not see the window is wide open. The Twins are “winning” the division because no other team is actively trying. With the right moves, even KC could win next year.
What players to go forward with? I call BS! Its the same players they knew were the foundation in spring training. Other than Vierling, who is still on the rail between starter and bench, none of HARRIS’ acquisitions are likely to be starters next year. Malloy has an outside chance, if they don’t sign a RH hitter in FA.
No, MIKE Illitch spent hundreds of millions. CHRIS Illitch is a cheap *** and he will not spend the money needed to make this young improving team any better! You watch this offseason will prove it.
I’d rather have Maton at SS, at least he’s making what Javy deserves
He tends to dog it when he’s running out soft grounders and pop ups, most do, but most aren’t making 20 million a year either
We can only hope that Javy improves once Tigers get decent lineup. Some guys play better when they’re surrounded by great talent. That’s the only chance we have to get him back to a competitive player
This is definitely true with Baez. He has a history of playing well when his team plays well and playing poorly when his team is not playing well.
Sure, the Tigers must put a great team around a player for him to put forth the effort. Don’t you wish your industry worked that way? You aren’t the one to make your environment better it’s your environment that must satisfy you…
Baez – another ill advised long term deal going in. Anyone whp caught his act in Chicago should not have been surprised at this outcome.
Of course, you could say the same about Tatis. Some guys should never get a long term contract.
Character means more than some talent evaluators believe.
When has javy displayed bad character exactly? I definitely called it being a bad contract but never saw any bad character flags
Guy hustles like no other. Something these “attitude” evaluators usually like…
Roids will help with that
He won’t hustle if he’s dropped in the batting order.
I knew Baez would fall off a cliff as soon as he lost some bat speed, but I didn’t think it would happen immediately.
“Fall off a cliff”…Not to disagree with the sentiment, but exactly when was Javy Baez ever that good?…For me, he’s the same erratic, mercurial, all-over-the-map type player he’s always been.
2023 has been Baez’ worst full season by far. Except for 2020, he’s always been better than this.
Welp. All that Cabrera money goes right to Baez. Good move Detroit.
Baez is already getting his money, even with Miggy on the team. Miggy money will go elsewhere, but with the upcoming crop of FAs, I can understand if they don’t spend it all. A lot of past their prime players where they have needs.
Jed caught a lot of flack for not extending Baez and Bryant. I think they could’ve used Rizzo the last couple of years but the first two? Jed’s breathin’ a sigh of relief.
Didn’t he flip off the Mets fans while a Met a couple of years ago? He gave the finger to the very people that pay his millions in salary. Do teams have a psychological profile type test they give before signing guys? I hereby propose a new rule. Players can be impeached by the fans. The season ticket holders can vote to remove. See you, Javier. Bye bye Giancarlo. Take care Mad Bum, arrivederci Rendon.
Imagine thinking owners care what fans think
Mets fans are mostly terrible, cant blame the guy
He thumbs downed them after booing him for several games. Not standing up for him cause I think he’s a major arse hole with limited upside but he didn’t outright flip them off. As said above Mets fans suck so both sides deserve their respective treatment and woes hahahahaha Mets just metsin things up per usual.
The only thing that has ever limited Javy Baez’s upside is Javy Baez.
I’d sooner let players vote to remove certain season ticket holders. Cya Kevin and Karen who boo their own players when in a slump
Hoping HARRIS convinces Chris I to pay down the Baez contract enough to make him tradeable. Don’t care what comes back. Anything will be more useful. Just like when he got traded to NYM, he can play when he wants to. Seems Detroit isn’t a place he wants to. For.the Tigers, he’s just a sunk cost.
He’d have to essentially eat the whole thing, plus throw in something of value for a team to take on Baez. They’d be better off just cutting him and taking the hit.
Sounds like they could throw Turnbull into a Baez trade. Maybe add Casey Mize and get back a decent MLB arm, like a fifth starter with a Doug Fister type upside.
The Angels might go into a full on rebuild. Maybe they would unload Rendon, Detmers, and Sandoval for the Tigers dead weight. The Angels would have to eat the difference between the Rendon and Baez contracts.
No one is taking on Baez contract in a trade or Turnbull for that matter…if the Angels are rebuilding, why would they take guys like that…Turnbull will he non tendered and Baez is staying put and needs to come to terms with his decline either find a way to get his bat speed back or reinvent himself at the plate
The Tigers have no need for Starting Pitching in trade. Lots of options already on the team. Lots of options in FAs. If they trade, it will be for something they can’t get in FA, like a 3b or 2B or C (Rondon plays IL).
Yeah, quite sadly, I HAVE to agree with that. Cut him, bite the bullet , and take the damn hit.
With Greene hurt the Tigers should call up Malloy and dump Nevin off the 40 man roster to give him a spot.
I very much agree with this statement.
Instead they call up Nevin.
Grrrr. Maybe 3rd time will be lucky for him. Not for us fans who have to watch his AAAA bat.
They must really distrust Mallory’s defense at this point. That, or they don’t think there are enough ABs to go around right now.
I watched Malloy several games in person…he is juat too slow to play 3rd or outfield…he is a 1stbase/DH type…let him get everyday at bats in Toledo and next year he gets Miggy’s ABs at DH….That is my guess as to why they havent made that move….
I was thinking the same thing, at first. But they’re not about to bring Malloy up just to send him back down when Greene is healthy. If they thought Greene was done for the season, it might be different.
Nevin is more versatile defensively than Malloy and he has been hitting well in Toledo.
And he has hit .135 this year with the Tigers! You are right though, great AAA numbers. He went 1 for 2 with 2 walks today. Maybe third times the charm with him. If he does nothing this time I would say his days with the Tigers are numbered. Short leash. I’d still rather see Malloy. He’s our DH next year with Carpenter’s less egregious defense playing in the field.
Baez is this Tiger’s team version of Gary Sheffield. Except Sheffield waited until he was 5-6 yrs. older than Baez to fall apart.
Tigers are going to have to cut him loose or just keep him and he becomes a Swiss Army Knife fill in. SS, 3B, maybe 1B and some DH’ing for the rest of his career. Maybe gets 350 AB’s/season.
I don’t see the comp to Sheffield. He had a bad shoulder which effected the always violent swing approach he had. Sheff was also productive even into his last year.
I’ve never been a huge Baez fan, but the dude was a very solid contributor (even borderline superstar at one point), but why does it seem that almost every free agent that has signed with the Tigers in the last several years has suddenly declined?
It is like they go to Detroit to kill their careers.
Other than Baez (and E-Rod), which free agents have the Tigers signed that’ll them down? For the most part they signed schlubs who weren’t expected to do anything but eat innings and ABs.
Zimmerman but that was a few years back. Kind of the beginning of the end for the last competitive team they had.
No, other than Baez, they have tended to go on the IL. Lorenzen was the first pitcher signed in a long time that didn’t get injured.
As a fan I can’t comprehend either one’s apparent attitudes. Yes Turnbull is getting older, and not playing for multiples of millions per season, but it’s not the Tigers fault. They’ve paid him 4 million dollars for his 12 wins, and have paid for all the repairs he’s needed.
Baez looks very unhappy when the camera shows his face, and he’s still swinging at balls a foot off the plate. Yes he makes some fantastic plays in the field, and you always hope the throw will be good too.
The Mike Ilitch family has provided Detroit with great food, and sports in their 64 years here. The fans are firmly behind them. All that family has done is pay top wages for the players here. The fans cheer wholeheartedly, and just ask that the players give a darn while here, and play hard.
Baez can opt out if he so desires, and Turnbull can start performing his way out of here as well. They’ve been paid real well, and will continue to be paid real well. Right now, neither players stock is real high. So they should try to improve it. If so, the fans will cheer their play, and cheer when they leave.
Zero chance Baez opts out.
This is fact.
Anyone even suggesting he will opt out should never speak out loud.
100% agreed. Any solid agent/financial advisor wouldn’t recommend it. Baez’s best move is opt in and then maybe the Tigers can just absorb his salary and cut him or take on his salary and trade him to a team like the Rays considering the Franco situation in exchange for a new washing machine or their 147th ranked prospect.
The problem is they tried to send him down because he was pitching poorly. They hurt his ego. If he pitched better there wouldn’t be an issue.
Tigers are also manipulating his service time which could potentially cost Turnbull a lot of money, that would make most people upset.
Sending down someone with a 7 era isn’t, “manipulating service time”
In order for it to cost him money, he’d need to not-suck.
They aren’t manipulating. He was pitching poorly and making the team worse.
He needs 6 days, which they aren’t going to give him, which is manipulating his service time. He could help his cause by pitching better, but Tigers aren’t bringing him up regardless. Is he worse than Vazquez?
Andrew Vasquez? If so, then yes.
When you have to reach this hard, your argument is just bad.
If he pitched better and was healthy he would have made it to 5 years of service time. An ERA over 7….. you have kept him on the Tigers roster?
They are not manipulating his service time. He’s pitched horrible this year, so they sent him to Toledo. I think it’s very likely that they’ll non tender him during the off-season.
Adios to the phonies
If he’s not pitching, how are they “manipulating” his service time? Why would they activate him when he’s not ready? Hopefully HARRIS won’t pull another Candelario, and non-tender someone that has always appeared to be a capable starter, and is simply taking longer than expected to recover from TJS (Like that never happens). $4MM is cheap for a 5th starter.
When you are horrible. The team has no obligation to roster you.
Maybe i should file a grievance against all 30 teams for manipulating my service time.
At least they play in the worst division in North American sports. Things will never be as bad as they look just because of that reason.
His agent, Scott Boras, knows the service time rules. He told Turnbull he was hurt when the Tigers tried to send him down. That is all.
Screw Boros and Turnbull….
They need to tell Greene no more diving catches, he’s too important to the lineup.
Really. That should have been said a long, long time ago. Potential superstar. I was jazzed when he was hitting over .300
Rendon , Baez ,Bryant , Correa or Story ? Which is the worst or stupidest recent move ?
DeGrom.
Pitchers category degrom Rodon Ray
Strasburg
The problem with Turnbull was that he and his agent didn’t want to notify the team that he was hurt to avoid the IL, pitched horribly, *then* reported the injury in order to try to land on the MLB IL, not the MiLB IL.
It’s Turnbull and agent who struck the first match lighting the bridge on fire..
So, when the Tigers tried to option him, would he have accrued MLB service time (like if he was still on the 40 man?)
I’m just wondering if Turnbull was trying to manipulate service time. Would be ironic because so many people here are accusing the Tigers of doing the same thing to Turnbull.
Yes, Turnbull was the one trying to game the system.
Yeah, Rodon also got a ridiculous contract. Sometimes, things just don’t work out. Other times, you know immediately that it’s going to be a disaster.
Turnbull is not as good as he thinks he is….pitch better and get back to the bigs and quit with all the ‘fun and games’…….on the other hand, Javy is a competitor and fallen star who wants to play and do well, but is going to have to be willing to reinvent himself somehow….Al Avila gifts that keep on giving I guess…
Turnbull has a no-hitter and nothing else. He is definitely a non-tender candidate.
The problem for the Tigers with Baez is they won’t eat his contract and he has very little trade value. They could try to dangle him and try to take on an underwater contract and hope a change of scenery works out for whomever they get but that seems unlikely
I’ll start believing in the tigers again if I at least hear conversations for long term extensions for Greene and Tork. Erod and Miggy coming off books so let’s get some renewed faith in Harris and ownership
Java Baez is the best player the Tigers have had in years.
Why would they want to trade him?
Why do people want Illich to spend.money? Its just an advertising gag. There are FAs the Tiger need? Name one.
It takes about 3 years for a player.to get going. The Tigers let them stack up instead of sorting…… it is really not a good problem to have. Kyle Tucker in Houston is the example. Fans want Instant Superstar out of the gate…..only happens rarely….it takes time.
Ever hear a Stones concert from 1964? They. stunk, but there was potential for the kids…..
If he signs people, he won’t get as good of a price for the team.
McCosky also relayed recent comments from manager AJ Hinch regarding shortstop Javier Baez’s playing time going forward. Hinch admitted to reporters that playing time would be “at a premium” going forward with the expanded rosters, and that as a result Baez will “play a little more sporadically than we’re used to” going forward.
So Hinch plays Baez at short and when the score gets to 10 to 0 he puts in Ibanez. Ibanez is 30 years old and a AAAA at best player.
What a clown show.
Tell us how you don’t watch the team by saying Ibanez plays SS!
Ibanez never plays short and he has played pretty solid at second.
I wonder if the Tigers would consider Brian Cashman as GM if he gets let go this fall?
Nope. 1. They just brought in HARRIS. 2. Yankees are keeping him. Sorry!
Harris isn’t GM. Harris is President of operations.
Lol
What about going backward tho?
Where did I say Ibanez played SS? He replaced Baez… McKinstry moved from 2b to SS. Do you watch baseball?
Ibanez is Schoop 2.0
Today the Tigers got to see Zach Short at short… Harris needs to see what he has. LOL
Yeah I totally don’t get why Short is still with the team. I guess he provides some half-a** value but I’d much rather see what we have in Wenceel Perez considering he has looked well in Toledo.
Spencer “Glass Bull” Turnbull.