With the Winter Meetings just five days away, here are three things for MLBTR readers to keep an eye out for today:
1. KBO asks for Go posting:
The Korea Baseball Organization requested the posting of LG Twins closer Woo Suk Go last night, per a report from Jeeho Yoo of Yonhap News. The right-hander is the second KBO player to begin the posting process this winter, following Kiwoom Heroes outfielder Jung Hoo Lee, who coincidentally is Go’s brother-in-law. Lee isn’t expected to be officially posted for big league clubs until the calendar flips to December, and the timeline for Go’s official posting is unclear at this point. When Go is posted, clubs will have 30 days to negotiate a contract with the right-hander. Go, 25, sports a mid-90s fastball that at times touches 98 and routinely posts high strikeout rates in the KBO but struggled with his control last year, walking 11.6% of batters faced. He figures to join a right-handed relief class headlined by Jordan Hicks and Robert Stephenson.
2. What’s next in St. Louis?
The Cardinals completed the primary goal of the offseason of adding three starters to their rotation yesterday by signing veteran right-hander Sonny Gray to a three-year deal. Gray joins fellow offseason signings Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson as well as incumbent veterans Miles Mikolas and Steven Matz in the projected St. Louis rotation. The trio of signings push the club’s projected payroll in 2024 up to just over $193MM, per RosterResource. That payroll figure would be an all-time high for the club, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts.
While the club reportedly intends to pursue at least two bullpen additions this offseason, it’s unclear if the club how much, if any, payroll space the club has available for those additions. Of course, St. Louis has a deep positional mix from which they could deal to both improve their bullpen and clear space on the payroll for another addition if they so chose, particularly in the outfield where Tyler O’Neill and Dylan Carlson are both widely regarded as likely trade candidates.
3. MLBTR Chat Today
With the Winter Meetings just days away and the hot stove beginning to sizzle, do you have any burning questions in your mind about your favorite team or one of the offseason’s many free agents? If so, tune in at 1pm CT today for a live chat with MLBTR’s Steve Adams. You can click here to ask a question in advance, and that same link will let you participate live or read the transcript once the chat has concluded.
Cardinals added three pitchers without giving up any prospects or other talent.
See, it can be done.
Well, they did give up their 2cnd pick in the ’24 draft and 500k in international $ to sign Gray – so, in a way they gave up 2 prospects.
I understand the draw of signing Gray, but I would have rather they had gone the trade route for the top of the rotation for this very reason. The prices may have been too steep for that to work, but I am pretty sure we don’t have to worry about the front office giving away any more high round draft picks this season…
Jade – but no one they have now.
The 2 prospects lost though have real $ value. The 2cnd Card pick is #44 and worth maybe 10 mil? Usually around a #10-20 prospect in that teams system depending…. the 500k is also 10% or so lost from their pool of Intl signings – so at least one guy or the ability to max out on a major guy. So they did give up 2 future prospects and real value, plus one could make the argument that the future guys have more value than say a #14 guy who needs to be rostered – especially with the Cardinals glut of good positional talent.
That 2nd round pick was a high pick because of their draft position too. Highest 2nd rounder they’ve had in a long while
Yeah if u want the worst rotation in the majors ! Rotflmao !!!
Seriously this one, you will honestly take the rotation listed in the article over
Greene
Ashcraft
Abbott
Williamson
Lodolo
Phillips
worst rotation?? Let’s see who ends up worst, and Mo isn’t even finished.
Vince, the Cards payroll is at an all-time high and they will probably be losing some TV revenue. Mo might be done with the rotation.
Whiffa – Three of these guys missed significant time last season and have a history of that. None of the group have much experience and have had to learn by the school of hard knocks because there was no veteran experience to guide them.
Right now it is all potential with that group. It remains to be seen if they realize it.
So from your perspective, what would it have taken for reds to land gray ? Bc when I see articles like this – I see just another guy who doesn’t want to play in cincy. 3 years 75 mil – reds can afford that e z if that’s their top target. Gray chose St. Louis over Cincinnati- that’s the way I see it. You want reds to pay gray 4yrs/100m ? Or what do u want to see them do exactly instead of just complaining about them doing nothing all day ?
Neither one of us was in the room, so we don’t even know if they came close, whether in this case or any other.
So to follow up on your statement, why doesn’t he want to come to Cincinnati, a place he was quite familiar with? Were bridges burned? Is it the owner’s cheap reputation? Something else we don’t know about?
There is a reason they can’t seem to close the deals that other GMs seem to be doing. This goes back to last offseason and the trade deadline. We all saw what the failure to do that cost them.
The need for at least one experienced starting pitcher should be obvious. I personally think they need a guy who can go either way, spot starter/long relief, as well with some if these young pitchers being not too pitch efficient.
Ya know, the Cards don’t really need a flashy rotation. Their offense can be super scary. If they can stay in that 4-5 runs allowed going into the 7th, they likely would still have the advantage against most teams, certainly in the NL central. I still think Mo and Ollie are the weak links there.
The Cardinals offense has scary potential. They were 10th in the NL for runs scored last year. That’s why I keep saying they can’t afford to trade offense for pitching. They didn’t have offense to spare last year. Let’s see if they can figure it out this year.
The Cardinals were 19th in Runs Scored as a team. They didn’t seem to scary last season.
Anytime you have to face Arenado, Goldschmidt, Contreras and some combo of Walker, O’Neill, Carlson and Nootbar, that’s as solid as you’ll find around the league outside of the Braves/Padres and a few others. If they actually felt they were in the hunt, that lineup produces. It scares the hell out of this Brewers fan every time – in a good competitive way. They can mash!
Again, it bears repeating…
19th in Runs
14th in Hits
17th in RBIs
15th in Avg.
14th in Slg
13th in OPS
…Is in no way scary, let alone super scary.
The entire second half was played with replacement level players that will in no way happen if the team is in contention. These numbers mean pretty much nothing.
Speaking of numbers
Goldschmidt 154 games played
Nolan 144 games played
Edman 135 games played
Contreras 124 games played
Nootbar 117 games played
Walker 117 games played
Gorman 118 games played
You’re being disingenuous. Goldschmidt didnt miss significant time in the second half and his OPS dropped almost 100 points. Arenado was almost as durable and his OPS dropped nearly 200 points. You lost Goreman and Contreras for a while but you gained O’Neil who actually improved from an OPS of 620 to 775 and played more in the second half than he did in the first.
The Cardinals obviously lost production from injuries but how is that different from other team? Every team loses production from injury. Underperformance had a lot to do with these stats. If you think they’re meaningless you’re just setting yourself up for disappointment.
They didn’t have a whole lot to play for in the 2nd half. I’m not saying they laid down, both Ollie didn’t do that team any favors in the first month. I can’t believe he didn’t get fired. What do I know, he’ll probably win manager of the year next year – but I doubt it! 😉
This is not true.
And the rotation, while having no ceiling, didn’t even have a solid floor.
Lynn, Gibson 5+ ERA, Matz not consistent and Mikolas pretty meh.
Not a great outlook even if you had the Braves offense.
Woo-Hoo!!
They will be better. The rotation was the root of their problems last year. The new additions should help stabilize that. The logjams at middle infield and extra outfielders must be alleviated. The other big problem that still exists was Oli moving people around too much. Schumaker or Shildt could outmanage Oli with their eyes closed. Hope he has a short leash in 2024.
Agreed. This was my Os MO in 23. Nothing flashy with the SP staff. But collectively, they kept the season long ERA just under 5 and the hitters scored just above 5. This doesn’t always work out, IMO the key for them was winning the nail biters. I chalked it up to solid defense and excellent team chemistry. IE everyone was drinking the orange Kool Aid the FO was selling.
The Cardinals had the 6th worst run differential in the majors.
On paper Wainwright wasn’t a -2 WAR Pitcher, but he ended up being that and I don’t think anyone on the rotation will be that bad in 2024.
I think STL is going to have to move Matz if they really want to further improve the team without increasing the payroll further.
Good luck with that.
And replace him with a different no.3 type of pitcher?
I’d rather give Pallante those early-season Matz starts and see whether he or another Cardinals prospect steps up than having Matz start.
@SalaryCapMyth: But Matz is a no. 7 type of pitcher, not a no. 3.
Your argument muddies the water. Otherwise what’s Kyle Gibson. A no.9?
No. Gibson has been consistently effective for several years. Matz hasn’t. I consider Gibson a rotation-level pitcher, but not Matz at this point.
As a RS fan, I’d be interested in Matz as my #2 SP acquisition, but just not at $25M/2. Too many injuries/inconsistency to pay the full freight.
How much salary do you think StL would eat?
Good question. They ate salary to move Leake. I guess it depends on who they’re trying to bring in that they need to move money out for. IMO they should be willing to eat half the salary if it means they can add Glasnow or Cease (assuming they end up trading O’Neill and Carlson, if you moved half of Matz off the books you’re saving about $12 million there).
On the other hand, $6m shouldn’t make or break them, and you can never have too much pitching, so at that point the smart thing to do is to just keep Matz as a swingman and make a trade anyway.
What type of return would be required for a Carlson/Matz package ? Giants give you some space by taking Matz with Carlson. What do you need back ?
I don’t know, a BP arm? For me, maybe nothing if they’re going to repurpose that payroll somewhere else.
I’m probably undervaluing Carlson who still has value even as a controllable fourth outfielder who can play all three spots well and has at least a league-average bat on a cheap deal. But I know that the Cards aren’t going to take on more payroll without moving some out and they still need to improve the team as currently constructed.
None. Despite his IL visits his contract isnt underwater at 12m aav
his contract isnt underwater at 12m aav
===================
His 0.7 bWAR per season with the Cards suggest that $12.5M is too high.
Matz is not a #2 SP. Not even in an average rotation.
But in a bad one, yes, I guess.
I think JoeBrady meant as a second SP acquisition, not as a #2 starter. So, like, he’d be happy if the Sox signed Yamamoto or Snell and also acquired Matz.
Exactly, which is why I included the word “acquisition”, rather than spelling the whole thing out, which goes against my mantra of “it’s the least I could do”.
Are there any expensive change-of-scenery short relievers available that another team may swap for the chance to get a few starts and/or long relief out of Matz?
Let’s Go !!!!!
On paper the team was projected to win the division last year. Or at least compete for it.
Spot on rez ! The cardinals whole operation system is a rip off of the Braves. Been like that for as long as i have followed baseball and it’s finally caught up to them. They may have an outside chance of being competitive this season but there window is going to shut hard soon w no recovery in sight.
They have a very good core of Walker, Gorman, Winn, Donovan, and Herrera to build around, but sure, that totally points to a window closing for good. Eye roll.
no it has not lol If anything the Braves have been copying the cardinals…thanks for the laugh though
Big whiffa with a huge whif.
Sure the cardinals and their 11 world series titles are copying the Braves and their 4 world series titles…
Braves and their 4 World Series just wish they were the Pirates and their 5 World Series.
Why are you comparing them to the start of last season? You’re ignoring the data and results of an entire season played.
Gray replaces Montgomery-push
2024 35 yr old Miles replaces 2023 34 yr old Miles- worse
Matz replaces Matz – push
Gibson replaces Flahearty- worse
Lynn replaces Wainwright-Lynn but only because he won’t sing
They lost 91 games last year. This year could be 100
All that money and all that need for starters and that’s the best they could come up with. Lol
None of Montgomery, Flaherty or Wainwright pitched full seasons with STL last year. So compare Gray/Gibson/Lynn with Montgomery/Flaherty/Wainwright/plus the 10 other pitchers that filled in for them or replaced them.
IMHO, it is an improvement, but at a fair cost. You’ll get more innings, and that’s important, but will the rotation be above league average?
Living rent free in that empty skull of yours 24/7/365. There’s some numbers for ya.
Hey troll! Hope you’re having a nice day
Flaherty Gibson push? Gibson had 17 quality starts last year, more than a lot of aces or even broken down flaherty. Such hate and arrogance.
ignore slider. he’s got to be one of the biggest troll morons on this page. It’s like talking to a toddler.
And btw, Nola and giolito only 14 quality starts. Gibson 17 FACTS
There is not a single major league team that would rather have Gibson on their team over Nola or Giolito. None. Not even the cardinals.
Hey, you’re raining on the parade of Cardinals fans aboard the riverboat Saint Louie on the Mississippi complete with jazz band playing “Happy Days are Here Again” on a loop with musical spoons and tap dancers dancing their hearts out to news that the Cards’ rotation issues have been successfully resolved!!!
Happy days are here again
The skies above are clear again
So let’s sing a song of cheer again
Happy days are here again!!!
Budweiser and ribs for everyone!!! Next stop: 2024 World Series!!!
When talking Giants need a centre fielder, Zaidi indicated trade could be the way to go for that position. What are you giving up for a Carlson ?