3:40pm: In addition to O’Neill, both Carlson and Alec Burleson have drawn trade interest to some extent this offseason, writes Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Both stand as plausible trade candidates themselves, though Mozeliak hasn’t taken the step of publicly declaring that with either player as he did with O’Neill.
In an appearance on MLB Network’s Hot Stove this morning (video link), Mozeliak again touched on his trade talks regarding the outfield, admitting that it would be “a surprise” if some trade involving one of his outfielders doesn’t come together. Specifically, Mozeliak said he hopes to upgrade his bullpen next, whether via the trade of an outfielder or other means.
10:29am: Tyler O’Neill’s status as a potential trade candidate isn’t exactly a well-kept secret. Heading into the winter, it’s been widely expected that the Cardinals would listen to trade offers on both O’Neill and fellow outfielder Dylan Carlson. Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak removed any doubt about the likelihood of an O’Neill trade in an appearance on MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM from this week’s Winter Meetings (video link).
“In the outfield, right now, if we were to play tomorrow it’d likely be [Lars Nootbaar], Tommy Edman and [Jordan Walker],” said Mozeliak. “Our fourth outfielder would be Dylan Carlson. … Tyler O’Neill is somebody that we are listening to on trades.”
Mozeliak added that he’s received “a lot of hits” on his outfielders in general, but O’Neill was the only one he specifically highlighted as a potential trade piece. The Cards have been against moving Nootbaar for some time now, and it stands to reason that there’s similar reluctance to consider moving Walker, who entered the 2023 season as one of the game’s top-ranked prospects and posted a .291/.358/.478 slash following the trade deadline.
O’Neill, 28, has ostensibly become an odd man out of the group. While the Cardinals could play Edman in the infield and thus open more playing time for O’Neill, the arrival of prospects like shortstop Masyn Winn, second baseman Nolan Gorman and utilityman Brendan Donovan have crowded the infield outlook as well. Winn, 21, didn’t hit well in last season’s MLB debut (.172/.230/.238), but that came in a sample of just 137 plate appearances — and Mozeliak specifically mentioned him in his MLB Network Radio appearance when describing his infield mix as “pretty solid” with Winn at short, Gorman/Donovan at second base and veterans Paul Goldschmidt and Nolan Arenado at the corners.
All signs seem to point to a potential trade of O’Neill, who as recently as 2021 slashed .286/.352/.560 with 34 homers and Gold Glove defense in left field but has since mustered just a .229/.310/.397 slash in 169 games. Injuries have played a significant factor in those struggles; O’Neill had an IL stint due to a shoulder impingement and a pair of IL stints for hamstring strains during the 2022 season. His 2023 campaign included a trip to the 60-day injured list for a lower back strain and a later return to the IL for a foot sprain.
There’s little doubt that a healthy O’Neill has game-changing power, but O’Neill simply hasn’t been healthy enough in his big league career. He played in 50 games during the shortened 2020 season and 138 games in 2021 but has otherwise rarely been on the field for the majority of a given season. That 2021 campaign is the only time he’s ever reached 100 games played or reached 400 big league plate appearances.
O’Neill is slated to become a free agent at season’s end and is projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz to earn $5.5MM this coming season. The power is clearly legitimate, but he’s been a bit below average at the plate overall throughout these two most recent, injury-riddled seasons. He still grades as a plus defender in left field and is an above-average runner. As far as change-of-scenery candidates go, O’Neill is a fairly appealing one, but the litany of injuries, minimal club control and limited recent track record at the plate will all coalesce to tamp down his value in a trade.
Cardinals doing what they always do — trade marginal players or players who they think are going to fall off a cliff after their age 28 season. First noticed them doing that with Allen Craig.
And you never heard from Craig again.
Red Sox fans wished that they never heard of Allen Craig.
I wish they would have done that with Matt Carpenter. A very painful few years watching him fall off the cliff
He had a nice half season with the Yanks.
Dotnet22: Carpenter is an absolute cubs killer. Any other team in the Central should grab him.
Hey
Carp was better than the likes of O’Neill and Craig for longer. And he didnt really decline til he was 33, but must have been tough to watch when it did finally happen.
I don’t know who you watched, Carpenter managed to leverage a six week streak, where he was the hottest player in baseball in to a huge contract, and was never seen that again, except below the Mendoza line!
Tyler O’Neill will get traded for a sore armed pitcher for depth at aaa who will be hurt all year is my guess and a worse suck ass bench player who can’t hit his own weight that the IPad loves!
Tyler O’Neill will get traded for a sore armed pitcher for depth at aaa who will be hurt all year is my guess and a worse suck ass bench player who can’t hit his own weight that the IPad loves
Carlson is going to fall off a cliff straight to the bottom from the heights he soared to in 2023!! =))
If his wrist is healthy and he bulks up. he can be really good.
Boston knew Craig had blown out his ankle and was still struggling with it. I was shocked the team was able to get Lackey on an extremely discounted price for him.
Foot. not ankle but agree with the rest.
That or they win championship series mvp in 2 years
Captain: Well there is nearby landfill: The South side of Chicago. Unfortunately, his predicted arbitration salary is already way too deep for the Sox.
Captain: You definitely don’t to get lost around there. If you do you might be meeting your Yankee heroes like Gehrig, DiMaggio and Ruth in person. Oh, and you might want to avoid the west side as well.
Craig was an unusual case. His knee was never the same after he injured it late in the 2013 season, but nobody realized the damage was permanent until at least a couple of years later.
He came back from the DL for the 2013 World Series and sucked. He sucked for the first 4 months of 2014, at which point the Cardinals had enough while they were competing for the division and managed to dump him on the Red Sox in one of the best trades Mozeliak has ever made.
Allen Craig’s ankle injuries with the Cards were career-ending. He was dealt because he was done…like completely. He was a fan favorite and a huge talent, but his situation isn’t the same as O’Neill’s.
O’Neill is brittle because he wants to be a bodybuilder AND a baseball player…and those two body types/workout regimens aren’t the same at all. He’s had this same problem with injuries (hamstrings, obliques, etc) for years and SHOULD have showed up to spring 2023 with 20lbs less muscle, but he didn’t do that. And that was the beginning of the end.
O’Neill still has a ton of upside, but it’s time for the Cards to move on.
I wish Tyler the best and hope he can resurrect his baseball career by stepping away from the squat rack.
ONeill should have done some things differently in his training no question about that. But the team sure as heck didn’t put him in a position to succeed. He never belonged in center. Marmol calling him out didn’t help either. The team has handled many outfielders poorly over the last decade but this is about as bad as it gets with him.
Busch Stadium was privately funded. St. Louis County did provide a loan which was the only public money involved.
Like I said, one loan from St. Louis County is the only public funding. The rest is private funding.
What makes you think they haven’t been paying back those bonds as scheduled? Pocketing them is illegal, and there’s no way they wouldn’t have been caught.
Meanwhile, DeWitt consistently runs well above average payrolls despite being in a below average media market, and Sonny Gray is a perfectly fine ace to lead the rotation. They just don’t have a clear #2 starter.
I know all about bonds. Bonds are issued by many different entities. These are corporate bonds issued and repaid by the team. It’s right there in your article.
Tippecanoe and Tyler Too
too funny
Once in awhile lol
Hmm, to Jays for Santiago Espinal? Both very good defensively. Espinal can play SS, 2B, and 3B well. Not much of a power guy but useful utility option. Made All Star team 2years ago. Two years of control. Maybe three.
We already have an Espinal, named Tommy Edman.
Cards have no use at all for a utility player. Espinal wouldn’t make the team. They’ll probably trade O’Neill for some B level prospect they don’t have to roster. He’s not worth much.
I see him going for a reliever with a 5+ ERA.
That’s fine. Just do it already.
I’d take that bet in a heartbeat.
Is O’Neil really worth more than that?
All that can (and usually does, unfortunately) prevent T.O. from being worth more than a reliever with a 5+ ERA is his frequent inability to stay healthy. When he’s right and seeing the ball well, he can be the beast he thinks he is. Maybe you just haven’t seen enough of him when he’s right because it’s such a rare occasion. Most Cards fans who pay attention as often as we can still haven’t seen it happen much at all since he’s been here.
Seamaholic: I can see it now: O’Neill for Cease straight up. If the Cards offer Donovan or anyone else, Getz the moron will decline at 2-for-1.
Hate to see him go. He should have been on the field more getting the reps he needs to hit like we know he can. He self-destructed.
You don’t know he can hit well unless he’s actually done it before.
Uh, Blue Baron? He’s done it before.
As investment advisers say, past performance is no guarantee of future results.
….except in married relations
So your first post suggests that past performance is a good indicator of future performance and then your second post says the exact opposite once you realize you were wrong in the first one.
Just say you are biased against O’Neill and save everyone some time lol
@stan lee: More accurately, I just don’t care. He’s simply not that great of a player.
Blue – even more accurately, you contradicted yourself and you can’t admit it.
So I contradicted myself. Big whoop. He’s still not that great of a player.
You Cardinals fans just exaggerate your players’ values.
Shut up unless you are going for 9 feet under as usual you put both feet in your mouth baron. You Baron overvalue your opinion especially when you trash opinion contradicts the last one. Are you that unaware moron?
That was a personal attack, so you automatically lose whatever argument this is. Sorry.
If you would like to restate your position without the hostility and personal comments, then you might give me food for thought.
But otherwise, thanks for your input, and I will take my win and go home.
Ugh. Blue, just sick of your shtick.
Gonna mute you, as I’m sure many others have. Good day, sir.
Now, now. This can all be settled very easily if Blue Baron can straightforwardly answer the question, did you contradict yourself or not? Clearly you did, just admit it. You have the anonymity of the board to spare your blushes.
Read the thread.
“So I contradicted myself. Big whoop. He’s still not that great of a player.”
What blushes? Who cares? This is not a friggin courtroom.
cornfusious?
T.O. batted .286 over the course of 537 PAs in 2021, the only season he stayed on the field long enough to show everyone what he’s really capable of doing. So, I would say he’s done if before, but not often. Plus, he has earned 2 GGs despite all the setbacks.
@Ol’ Uncle Charlie: I wasn’t even talking to you, and your opinion is of no consequence.
I didn’t even know you existed, so you muting me means nothing. Have a good time.
Agree Daryl. Kids need reps..(especially coming back from injuries)..to get their confidence back.
I for one am ready for Tyler O’Neill to take his baseball elsewhere. If his passion for the game of baseball was a strong as his passion for body building he would be an all star! Strikes out way too much. Not a person I would want at the plate with a runner at third and less than two outs. I wish you the best Mr O’Neil
He cut his Ks down to a reasonable level in his breakout 2021. It’s only been his health holding him back these past two seasons. His level of passion for the game has nothing to do with that.
I think he’s saying if T.O.’s passion for baseball was/is as strong as it should be, he would’ve done more to focus on staying healthy (and being there for his team when they need him) than focusing on his physique, but he didn’t.
And he knows that? Right…
Deez: Why should he give up body building now when he has a chance to bench press Lynn?
avenger: he’s pretty buff, but I don’t know if he’s ready for that. The only players I could bench would be Tommy or Masyn.
n2thecards: I’m less ambitious. I’ll start by trying to bench one of the bat boys. Not one of the chubby ones or the ones with beards.
Absolutely a trade the dodgers / cards should explore. They should know each other well from the supposed ongoing and continuously reported on Arrenado conversations
You mean wholly speculated Arenado conversations. There haven’t been any actual trade discussion about Arenado since the trade sending to the Cardinals was complete. The Cardinals have never once seriously considered trading him since they first acquired him.
Glad to know we have a front office insider or member here in the comments with deep knowledge of the goings on of BOTH the Cards and Dodgers!! Which other teams are you able to confidently speak for?! Why even have reporters when we have your intimate knowledge and ties to the league?!
Lost: If you have an interest in something, read, listen to other people in and out of the business’ opinion and figure out for yourself what’s likely to be true and what isn’t, follow the game like I assume most people on this site do then, yes, you can know just about know all there is to know about one or more major league teams. It’s not rocket science. It’s no more than a hobby, a pastime, to enjoy or take your frustrations out on so you don’t take it out on the wife and kiddies. Lanidrac might be associated with BB in some capacity. And even if he isn’t, he’s allowed his opinion.
It was reported by pretty much every single Cardinals reporter and beat writer there is that then Cardinals never had a single trade discussion with the Dodgers about Arenado and that the noise was all smoke coming from the LAD beat writers.
No insider knowledge is required. You simply have to listen to any public comments the Cardinals’ front office have ever made about Arenado since they first acquired him. They’ve always considered him a cornerstone player in whom they have zero interest in trading.
@desertball: How can we take your word for anything when you’re either too ignorant or too lazy to look up the correct spelling of ARENADO?
I’m sick of commenting only to get an “unexpected response from the server.”
“Unexpected response from the server”
As expected
I’d prefer that MLB-R just let these people advertise rather than pop-ups obliterating your screen.
You could subscribe?
He might be listening, But I bet nobody is talking.
Some team may trade a can of coke for him.
The Mets can offer up a Scrubb now.
Bryan woo and Emerson Hancock for Nolan Gorman
Mariners want more contact in their lineup; Gorman or O’neil is not it
I really hope Seattle wouldnt trade either of those pitchers for Gorman let alone both. In Seattle, Gorman would be hit .217, 18 HR, 55 RBI
you’re funny.
Gorman may never be a solid BA guy, only time will tell, but his raw power and potential are for real. Like the rest of them, he just has to stay healthy and committed.
I’m sick of commenting only to get an “unexpected response from the server.” Or “duplicate comment detected; looks like you’ve already said that”.
“Duplicate comment detected”..I keep getting “38 comments hidden because you muted the author”….I’ve never “muted” anyone on this site and when I have to do that I’ll just stop coming here. For some reason this site is censoring me.
Apparently I’ve muted commentors too. I can only guess that it happened accidentally when using my phone. I wish there was a way to undo that. I’ve looked enough to believe there is no way of doing it.
I have no idea of who I muted. I’m perfectly capable of ignoring people without muting them.
It goes away by itself eventually. no idea why it happens on and off but don’t expect any help whatsoever from an IT person from this site. It’s non-existent.
I don’t expect any support on a free site.
Yeah well when I paid for a subscription last year and everything stopped working after that I got no help either so pay, no pay,No difference.
I tried muting myself but it hasn’t worked
Sounds like it isn’t censoring you, rather others?
Yep i was just kidding
Held O’Neill too long; lucky to get a B-level prospect now in return…
Mariners might go there. We could use a DH. how much again? He will need to come cheap for Depoto.
Why not? He’d fit right in with the bulk boys like Stanton and Judge.
Perfect for Yankees platoon and Gold Glove. Yankees cannot field that well. besides the guy has upside for sure.. Trading Bader was a mistake.
I am certain the Yankees will take O’Neill straight up for Giancarlo Stanton. 🙂
Don’t be so sure.
He has health issues and cannot stay on the field consistently. They’ve had too many injury prone players over the years they need someone who can be in the lineup regularly
Are you talking about Walker or Stanton?
Tyler O’Neill and Matz for Robbie Ray and cash
Who is Matz? otherwise the other part of that trading Ray is ok with me.
They are definitely selling low on him. Would have gotten a lot more 2years ago
Two years ago, he was one of their best players on a small salary and three years of remaining control, so they had no reason to trade him back then.
Two year ago themed wanted them to give TON an extension.
Would have gotten less 3 years ago.
Unexpected response I get every single time
Dude is a solid player when healthy. He’s worth a flyer but I wouldn’t give up a ton to get him…
“Give up a ton”..I wouldn’t give up a “Big Mac” to get O’Neill, but possibly some small fries, if you send .99 along with him.
Whoa…it’s the holidays. We could be generous and throw in apple pie perhaps? So down the road, when they have another ‘numbers crunch’ player they’ll consider us first…
Cards fans: The last two posts, by MLB fan and Hired Gun, brings up a question: When Mark McGwire was cheating his way to the HR record, Big Mac Land in LF was created. After it was proven that he cheated,does Big Mac still stand for McGwire or is it now simply an add for McDonalds?
Cards have plenty of OF and IF players. How about a reliever: Jays send Yimi Garcia to the Cards for O’Neil? Each have 1yr left on their contracts.,
Personally, I’d rather trade Edman, who also has just one year left before free agency. His utility role is mostly duplicated by Donovan. While Edman is significantly better defensively and on the basepaths, Donovan is significantly better on offense, is OK defensively (although he still didn’t deserve that Gold Glove he won due to a quirk in the voting for the new utility position), and is under club control for much longer. Edman does provide plus defense in CF, but Nootbaar is fine there, and (if not traded) Carlson also plays very good defense in CF when he plays.
Meanwhile, when O’Neill is healthy, he’s a MUCH better hitter than Edman, also plays good defense, and also has elite speed (albeit not the same base stealing ability).
Ah, my mistake. Edman has two years left before free agency. Still, that’s much closer than Donovan, and it makes Edman even more valuable than he would be with one year remaining.
I just feel like Edman is worth too much to this team. Yes, his trade value is monumentally higher than O’Neill’s, but that’s obviously because of that value he brings to his current team. He’s the best base runner and best fielder on the team. He can play anywhere better than almost anyone who is the starter at that position. He also seems to be a solid clubhouse guy. Seems like a Cardinal and the kind of guy they want to keep around long term. Sure he has flaws (streakiness at the plate), but his value to the team is likely higher than the value they’d get in a trade.
Yes, he’s their best baserunner (although Arenado is a better fielder, and Carlson and maybe Winn are close in defensive ability), but other than that and playing CF, Donovan can play anywhere Edman can with better offense, more team control, and only somewhat worse defense. As such, Edman’s value to the team is mostly redundant and not higher than if he were traded for a solid reliever.
Honestly, Arenado grades out as league average (or just a hair above) at 3B now. He was the best, no doubt, in his prime, but he’s no longer in his prime. He’ll still wow you once in a while, but his overall defensive metrics are right about at the league average 3B line last year. They’ve been falling steadily to get there over the past few years. Love him though. Glad he’s a Cardinal. He’s just not the same defender he used to be.
Meanwhile, Edman’s defensive metrics graded out way above league average at CF, SS, and 2B last year. He’s a freak defensively. He’s frustratingly inconsistent at the plate, which caps him, but there is likely not a more valuable utility guy defensively in MLB right now.
Donovan’s defense grades around average at 2B and well below avearge in the OF. They need to get him out of the OF. He doesn’t belong there. His bat is certainly more enticing though. No argument there. I hope he finds his happy medium though. When he started swinging for the fences, his OBP plummeted. I’d like to see something in between for him. He certainly doesn’t need to be a power hitter…but that’s an entirely different conversation.
I think the Cards will keep Edman this year unless blown away with an offer. They have rookie at short and a rookie coming up maybe by midseason for cf. 2 of the spots Tommy is GG caliber at.. They cant affor one of those spots to be a bust. he woud be great insurance. Maybe midseason Trade if anything.
Nootbaar is a competant, not great CF. would be GG quality in either corner.
There are no plans to use a rookie CF as a starter at midseason. If they were to trade Edman over O’Neill, they’d simply use a starting outfield of O’Neill, Nootbaar, and Walker. While O’Neill or someone else could get hurt again, they’d still be backed up with (or play at DH) guys like Donovan, Carlson, Burleson, and Palacios depending on who else may get traded.
Victor Scott has little left to prove in the minors. They definitely plan on bringing him up sometime in 24. He could force the issue with excellent play. He will be an elite defense cf. Whether he starts or not remains to be seen. But that is his projection.
Scott still hasn’t seen AAA, so obviously he has to prove himself there first. Even Walker wound up needing a AAA tuneup after initially skipping the level.
Anyway, Scott may see the Majors in 2024, but he’s certainly not expected to be a Major League starter that soon.
They have no backup SS without Edman, Donovan is not a SS. And they are going to struggle with CF if they move Carlson, which seems fairly likely with where they stand now. Donovan fits the lineup better, but Edman is a much, much better fit defensively. They lose too much moving Edman in my opinion because it necessitates keeping Carlson and acquiring a backup SS
Donovan is too a shortstop. He played 7 games there in 2022. He doesn’t play it as well as Winn or Edman, but he’s only a little below average like he is at all the other positions he plays.
They don’t have to trade Carlson, but if they did, Nootbaar is still a perfectly fine CF, and Palacios can back him up there if needed.
The team needs more than Donovan as a backup shortstop. Winn is still a question mark and we don’t really have an everyday centerfielder either. Edman is the starting centerfielder on opening day as well as insurance for Winn can’t trade Edman. Perhaps mid season when Saggese and Scott are ready but not before that.
No, they don’t. Donovan is a perfectly fine backup SS on his own. It would just mean he wouldn’t move around to different positions as much if pressed into duty.
As I already said, Nootbaar is a perfectly fine everyday CF with Palacios as the backup.
Nootbaar belongs in right. Donovan doesn’t belong at short. Edman is a need for now. Again mid season different story.
The Cards held on too long; it’s past midnight and Tyler O’neill is well past his expiration date.
Tic-Tok, Tic-Tok, clock is ticking on Goldschmidt & Arenado too!
Good Luck Cardinals. Tyler O”Neil has very little trade value.
Don’t expect to get much back for O’Neill unless he’s part of a more elaborate trade. The point of moving him by himself is to save a bit more money to facilitate bullpen additions.
Still not crazy about Edman as the CF. I would rather see Carlson get one more year to see if he has any productivity in his bat. He plays a good outfield too. If it was me, I’d let Edman play SS and keep Winn in AAA for another year. He didn’t look even remotely ready last season.
Well, if none of those guys get traded, they can always make that switch after the first month or so if Carlson gets off to a much better offensive start than Winn. Spring Training could also make a difference.
However, it’s been two straight years that Carlson has struggled to hit righties, while Winn is hardly the first top prospect to struggle in his first couple of months against Major League pitching.
Winn was 20, not 25. He is advancing quickly at each level after initial struggle.
Winn has nothing left to prove in minors, he hit .288 last year in AAA with 18 long balls in only 440 at bats, every level he’s gone to its taken a season to adjust. Also, we literally aren’t relying on his bat next year in the slightest, as Arenado, goldy, noot, Walker, Gorman, donavan, Contreras, etc will be relied on for offense, he’s your ninth place hitter playing a premium position and could win gold glove as soon as next year…. Anything he gives you offensively is a bonus next year.
Can we listen to offers for Mo too?
No thanks….the Yankees don’t need another .231 hitter that may show promise….been there done that with Bader and that didn’t work out very well for the Yankees……
GM-speak for “I got no further use for this guy”, but no one is calling. In 4 of his last 5 seasons, he’s had an OPS+ of less than 100, has had an injury history, and costs $6M. Decent chance he is non-tendered.
I think the chances of him getting non-tendered are exactly zero. If you can’t move him, you move Carlson and Burleson, both of which will be movable, and have TON as a fourth platoonable outfielder that can play all three OF spots. His ceiling is way too high to just cut bait.
If they keep O’Neill over Carlson and/or Burleson, they’ll start him as long as he’s healthy. There’s no reason to platoon him. It would just mean Walker would play DH more often, which certainly isn’t a bad thing.
I would bet that they did that to give confidence to Winn, but you can also bet that ST is absolutely a tryout for Winn and Edman will be there on opening day if he still looks lost.
There is such a thing as utility players, Edman looked like a potential good glover in his time out there last year. The outfield will be fine.
The non-tender deadline has already passed. He is worth over $5M just on the chance that he stays healthy next year, in which case he’d likely be a star player again.
Dombrowski on line 1.
Phillies could use a rh hitting OF. If he fails still, it’s only a 1 yr deal and it gives Rojas a 1/2 season in aaa to adjust. And a lot less expensive than Duval.
I wish Carlson would start in CF and Edman at SS. Winn isn’t ready
To be fair, Winn struggles in call-ups. He takes some time to adjust. He did in the minors too. He didn’t have much left to prove in the minors at this point though. If he has a good ST, the job is his. If he still stinks by Memorial Day, then it’s a different story.
The question is this: is the team better with Edman in CF, Winn at SS, and Carlson on the bench? Or Carlson in CF, Edman at SS, and Winn in AAA? I would strongly suspect the latter makes the team better, especially with Palacios as the 4th OF and Donovan as the utility getting nearly daily p.t.
It will wholly depend on if Winn adjusts or not. If he does, then they’re stronger with him at SS. If he doesn’t, they’re not. He’ll likely be on a relatively short leash, maybe 4-5 weeks to show promise. Living up to Carlson wouldn’t take much right now, so the bar is somewhat low. TBD.
As a reminder, Mike Trout had a similar length cup of coffee as Winn in 2011. His slash was .220/.281/.390. Not as bad as Winn, but plenty bad. These big talents deserve longer runs, even with a bomb of a debut, and Winn will almost certainly get it (unless he tanks in ST).
I agree with this. I just don’t like that they have basically declared Win the starting SS without seeing if he’s made any adjustments. ST should be his audition (and maybe it will be).
Obviously I’d love to be wrong and have Winn put up a ROY-level season.
Against a lefty, they are absolutely better off with Carlson in CF. However, the problem is that Carlson hasn’t hit righties for two straight years now. I’d suggest he stop switch-hitting, except I’d be worried he might hit even worse against righties than he already does.
I guess my comments stem from me being very pessimistic regarding Winn in the short term. Long term, I think he’ll be an average contributor offensively with above average defense at SS. But after watching him at the MLB level last year, I didn’t see anything that led me to think he was even remotely ready to compete at that level. Obviously the team knows more about him than I do, but still…
So, for me, I think Winn’s time will come. I just don’t think it will be this year.
Winn isn’t on roster for his BAT currently, he plays AMAZING defense at a PREMIUM position with already arguably the best arm for a position player IN THE GAME. we have Gorman, Arenado, goldy, noot, donavan, Contreras, Walker, for offense, that’s SEVEN bats in a lineup of nine…. Winn literally is your ninth place hitter and anything you get from him offensively is just a bonus given he could be a gold glover at the most important position in game…
“In the outfield, right now, if we were to play tomorrow it’d likely be [Lars Nootbaar], Tommy Edman and [Jordan Walker],” said Mozeliak.
So their outfield consists of infielders and their actual outfielders are on the trade block. Seems right.
Nootbaar is a legitimate OF, but fair enough, although there are certain reasons for this oddity.
Tigers trade Will Vest for Dylan Carlson. Who says no ?
Not a bad offer, although I’d certainly hope Vest pitches more like 2023 than 2021-22 going forward.
Detroit would certainly hope Carlson steps it up, as well.
Hope they’re not expecting much in return.
Just looking to get rid of his salary before the try to add 1-2 relievers.
Sure seems like the Diamondbacks could use ONeill.
That projected outfield of Nootbar, Edman, and Walker is average, at best. Thinking Gorman is anything but adequate at 2B is a joke. Winn needs a bat, not just a glove, otherwise not better than DeJong. Mozeliak is a fool to publicly announce a set outfield that does not include Carlson and/or ONeill when he is trying to trade either or both Carlson and ONeill.
I would disagree. Edman played center at an elite level last year in spite of never playing there before. Nootbaar is elite quality in a corner. solid glove, good closing speed, ability to play center rand a cannon arm. Walker is the question mark in right but he improved greatly by the end of the season and made some highlight reel plays. Hes still working on his defense in the off season.
Also Gorman is already a league avg 2nd baseman defensively after learning 2nd base on the job last year. I watch all the games and he has turned in some brilliant plays. Also has very strong arm.
Second all of this. Gorman made quite a few spectacular plays, he just needs to get a bit more consistent on the more routine ones and we will be a very solid 2B
Average at best? Two out of the three are well above average with the bat, while two out of the three are well above average with the glove. It seems like a pretty good OF to me.
With his bat, Gorman doesn’t need to be anything but adequate defensively at 2B, and he actually managed to beat expectations to become around average at 2B defense.
DeJong turned back into a pumpkin after he was traded. I’ll absolutely take Winn’s potential over that.
Yeah Gorman is a talented guy. He’s like Dan Uggla but with more power and a little better defense. Gorman best position is 3b but he can play 2b he’s improved a lot there.
If O’Neill is ‘all about me’ that makes you the Tyler O’Neill of MLBTR, Keyboard Warrior. Guess you must know him personally to make this kind of character criticism? I’m sure you’re not just an a-hole looking for a cheap shot…
O’Neill is a great buy low bet for anyone. Almost no downslide for 5.5m. But don’t let that get in the way of your carefully considered opinion.
Ah OK. He’s richer and more successful than ordinary folks. Yeah, lets tear into him then.
Remember, Tyler O’Neill for Marco Gonzalez, how about doing it again?
12.5 million dollars to take on Marco. The cards want someone to take the salary of O’neil to sign a reliver or trade him for a reliver. Some team may come calling to see what he has left if he can make it out of spring training without injury. MG would have been one they might have tried before adding 3 starters to the mix early on, but I don’t see them investing that type of money in him when they feel set on starters again.
Marco isn’t worth any more than O’Neill at this point, but he’s paid a lot more. Sadly, that would actually be a bad deal (but I get the humor value).
Marco has been traded to the Braves.
And the Braves are already looking to trade him. He was a throw in salary dump. They don’t want him. He’ll be on another team by ST.
If it was salary neutral and the Cardinals didn’t already sign Gibson and Lynn I would say cool but now it doesn’t work as well.
Cardinals need 2 relievers. That’s about it.
Shouldn’t take much to get O’Neill. Blue Jays need a LF or to face LHP if they land another lefty OF bat.
It takes intense focus, dedication and a strict diet.
So mentally it applies to baseball, but not the skillset per se. Had a couple in my friend group in my 20’s. Odd fellas all in all.
But I’ll take him in LF for the ’24 Phillies.
Who needs a career BA of .248 & wOBA of .333?
Those stats are misleading, as you can basically throw out the years before his breakout and the times that he’s played hurt.
I get the feeling Mo’s comment was more about telling people they won’t be selling low on Carlson. I think they’ve accepted selling low with O’Neill.
Probably right, but I also wish he would have held that card a little closer to the vest. They have a DH spot. They could at least pretend he or Walker are up for that.
Carlson is the lesser IMO. O’Neill has a higher ceiling.
Anyone know if he ever played 1B coming up? Might fit his body type a bit better as he ages and a bit less wear and tear. He has a slugger profile. Guessing the Cards would be looking for pitching of some sort, maybe a reliever or two?
Shouldn’t take much to get him. What..a couple of low level prospects?
The M’s could use a bat who they traded him away for Marco awhile ago. I wonder if this trade gets revisited once again. Injuries might be a concern but maybe he can be had on the cheap he could become a DH. and a backup outfielder.
Miller for O’Neil and Nootbar ?
You spelled Gilbert wrong
Captain: That’s what I say about every player.
Based on Cards history of traded outfielders O’Neil will be a 2024 Allstar and will lead his new team to the World Series. He actually is more talented than Garcia, Arozarena and Thomas.
You trying to make us cry, bringing up that OF?
Anybody paying more than a lottery ticket prospect for O’Neill should be sent to have their brain checked for a TBI. Sure he hit more HR’s than Clevelands entire outfield last year, but so can Abraham Toro when he’s healthy and getting regular playing time.
But O’Neill is a vastly better player than Taro when he’s healthy and getting regular playing time.
Definitely. Was making a comment on Clevelands lack of power since O’Neill has been linked to Cle by every hack writer.
O’Neill going to the Guardians. He and new manager Steven Vogt are best buddies.
I’d take a flier on him. At least O’Neill-LF / Kwan-CF is an upgrade over Kwan-LF / Straw CF
Agreed. Oneill is a pretty decent fit for the guards.
I think Carlson is a better fit for the Guardians. They need help at center and right and that’s where Carlson is best. Oneill can technically play those positions but he’s best in left field.
Depends on how you look at it. Oneill brings more potential offensive/power upside without severe defensive liability. If the guards believe that Kwan can play a decent cf or that straws glove outweighs his offensive woes in context of any overall offensive upgrades oneill starts to look like the better get of the two imo
Kwan I believe has a gold glove in left just like ONeill does. I wouldn’t move him just to accommodate ONeill when you could simply get Carlson instead who I’d also available. ONeill has big time upside but he’s a left fielder and I think fits best with a team with more outfield depth in case he gets hurt.
They should be listening to offers on Nootbar but they fear the fans in St. Louis would picket outside that stadium with No Justice, No Peace chants. Trading him would bring a better return then try and dump Goldschmidt and Arenado at the deadline like they should have done last year. Anything less than trading those three, their rebuild is going to take a half century
That’s because they’re NOT rebuilding, nor do they plan to do so anytime soon.
Not gonna get much for an oft-injured player who has sucked the last two years and is an FA after this season.
If Glasnow and his 25 million dollar salary has trade value so does ONeill and his 5.5 million.
Why is Marmol still manager❓Tyler O’Neill isn’t the problem. But if you’re going to trade him then send him to the Dodgers for Grove or Sheehan.
It was fun seeing all the old-aged, old-school managers succeed in the playoffs, yet the Cards insist that young analytics is the only way for managing an MLB team in this era. Analytics are important and have their role, but if you solely focus on them in your hiring and firing decisions, you will fail.
The team has had one really good year and one really bad year with Marmol as manager. He deserves at least one more shot. Even managers on consistently bad teams usually get three years.
I do like him as a fit for the Dodgers. Here is a trade idea just for fun
Arenado
Matz
ONeill
For
Taylor
May
Graderol
I’ll say it now. I think trading him is a gigantic mistake for this year. This guy is in a contract year and is going to put up big-time numbers. I feel sorry for the team that signs him next year, but I would be willing to bet this is going to be a monster of a year for TO.
Agree he is overdue for more health and players seem to shove in their free agent year. if they dont get a decent trade value then def keep him.
I really like O’Neill, but it’s felt like this has been brewing for a long time. I like him as a Cardinal, but I can’t imagine he has a ton of value at the moment. hope he can stay healthy and rake wherever he goes, if he’s traded.
Tyler O’Neill and Nolan Gorman to the Phillies.
Dylan Covey, Luis Ortiz and Yunior Marte to the Cards
I wouldn’t mind seeing Breslow try to get O’Neill. The power possibility at Fenway is enticing
Needs better roids
O’Neil and money to the A’s for the only guy making over league minimum.
Only had 1 good year, otherwise just kind of a “meh” player but has always been intriguing with his pop and speed combo.
Is the Tyler for Tyler trade happening?
Tyler O’Neil was almost a non-tender candidate. What do the Cards think they’ll get for him?
Obviously you just want to stir the pot. Cudos
He’s nowhere close to a no tender candidate.
On a related note, I have an expired carton of milk if anyone wishes to trade for it.
Mozeliak is publicly telling every other team in baseball that O’Neill stinks but will somebody please take him off my hands? Doesn’t seem like the best way to maximize the return on a trade. Looks like Mozeliak has just given up and expects nothing except a little salary relief from a deal.
Everybody know what Oneal is and how jammed up the cardinals OF is. They also know he makes 5 mil and is a free agent next year. Whats he supposed to say? Play it coy? deny what everyone already knows?
The muscle bound kids has muscles for brains. No clue how to play the outfield. Just watch him when the ball leaves the bat. Also too much muscles for baseball
I keep seeing Glasnow in a Cardinals uniform
TB needs MI and OF, Donovan and Carlson as part of a package, with Manuel Margot who is also on the block going back to STL as a def. 4th OF makes some sense for both clubs.
That’s laughable. Four years of Donovan and three years of Carlson for one year of Glasnow and two of Margot (who the Cardinals wouldn’t want or need)?
These guys aren’t worth much
I’d rather the Yankees trade for O’Neill than Soto. Spend the difference on pitching,
I’d love to see what he could do in Detroit. Put his right handed bat in with Greene, Carpenter and Meadows. I think this kid has been struggling to put up numbers in this OF jam they’ve had in STL and with a change of scenery he could be a legitimate power bat. Still runs well and plays a good corner OF.
I think Tyler O’Neill for a bag of broken bats should seal the deal.
I don’t see the Cards getting a lot of Carlson. He isn’t a very good hitter. You are looking at a bench guy at best.
Burleson was decent in the 2nd half. Factor in friendly contact and he has shown to be a decent hitter at the higher minor league levels he could draw some interesting. His defense is what hurts him.
O’Neill probably has really good appeal, assuming the medicals are more nagging than chronic issues. I think they want to move him because of club house issues. He seemed to be fine in the 2nd half last year.
The Cards would be better packaging Nootbar with one of them or add Gorman and go get a really good young player. The problem is the Cards have some nice players but they aren’t superstars.
Kudos to Mozo for driving his value down. He reminds me of a card player holding his cards backwards.
This dude has talent and this is a contract year. Capable of hitting 30 dingers and playing elite defense. Last year was rough, but it was rough for that entire team. He also averages about 3 WAR per full season. I’m taking a shot if I need a left fielder.
They are listening to offers but the real question is, are they getting any?
It feels like I have seen this headline for 3 straight off-seasons
Oh now Dylan Carlson is on the trade block but he was the one piece we wouldn’t trade to get JUAN SOTO!!!!! Get rid of MOOOOOOOOOO