The Red Sox are showing “strong interest” in a reunion with left-hander James Paxton, according Rob Bradford of WEEI. The 35-year-old lefty signed with Boston prior to the 2021 season while rehabbing Tommy John surgery and missed the entire 2022 season before making 19 starts for the club in 2023.
Ever since Paxton made his major league debut in 2013, he’s been dogged by injuries throughout his career. In recent years, Paxton has had back surgery in addition to the aforementioned UCL procedure while also spending time on the shelf due to knee, hamstring, and forearm issues. Even in the earlier days of his career, Paxton ranging from a strained pectoral muscle to a left lat strain. Despite those injury concerns, however, Paxton has flashed the potential to be a quality #2 starter when fully healthy. From 2016 to 2019, Paxton made 101 starts and posted a 3.60 ERA and 3.16 FIP with a 28.5% strikeout rate across 568 innings of work.
In the first half of the 2023 season, Paxton appeared to have recaptured that dominant form from earlier in his career. In his first nine starts of the season, Paxton struck out a whopping 31.1% of batters faced while posting a 2.70 ERA and 3.22 FIP over 50 innings of work. Unfortunately, that dominant form did not last throughout the remainder of the season as Paxton’s final ten starts saw him post a 6.46 ERA while he struck out just 18.6% of batters faced in 46 innings of work.
While it’s fair to point out that the veteran lefty’s overall numbers are skewed by a 9 2/3 inning stint that saw him give up a whopping 17 runs (16 earned) before going on the injured list with knee inflammation, even his full-season ERA of 4.50 and strikeout rate of 24.6% paint Paxton as more of a back-end starter than anything else. While it’s certainly possible he could improve upon those numbers with better health in 2024, it seems unwise for the Red Sox to expect him to revert to ace-level production in his age-35 season.
With that being said, Boston would surely benefit from adding more than one starter to its rotation this offseason, which could help to take pressure off young arms like Kutter Crawford, Tanner Houck, and Garrett Whitlock while also helping to reinforce the club’s depth in the event of additional injury woes for Chris Sale. Paxton could therefore be a desirable secondary addition for a Red Sox club that figures to continue its focus on adding a front-end starting pitcher even after missing out on Yoshinobu Yamamoto earlier this week, particularly considering the left-hander’s previously expressed desire to return to Boston in 2024.
Dear god no
It all depends on the cost and expectations. Both Houck and Whitlock have been much better in the pen and I’m for a #5 or #6 man as long as Montgomery also signs. A six man staff might also be perfect for Sale.
Dewey – I have a feeling if the Sox make a big trade, Houck will be included.
Fever, could be because that power arm is intriguing. I still would develop him to close and if he pitches like he has in short durations, trade Jansen who was even better off the field (or let the deal expire if the team surprises in 24).
Dewey – Any team trading a veteran to the Sox will want Houck in return. Like the Brewers would want him as part of a package for Burnes.
Fever – If Houck is in such high demand why don’t Red Sox fans respect him? That makes no sense that he would need to be included. He has the least number of years of control other than Pivetta.
Why is he more likely than Bello or Crawford or Whitlock? I see him as the least likely guy to be moved of the four young guys.
TF – To answer your first question, same reason why they don’t respect Duran …. because they refused to take the vaccine.
Plus short memories are kinda common around here. They think a player is defined by only what he’s done lately, even if they’ve been injured.
I mean the dude had a career 3.02 ERA and 1.123 WHIP before this season, and he can both start and relieve, and he’s under team control for 4 more years. Plenty of teams highly value all that.
Why not Bello? Sox won’t part with him because of his potential.
Why not Whitlock? Because he can’t stay healthy.
Why not Crawford? This was his first decent season after a disastrous 2021/2022.
We’re still talking about vaccines? Give me a break and move on.
Basically the whole baseball ops department is the same as it was under Bloom. Breslow hasn’t had a chance to remake much of it yet. So, it is not really a surprise that the same baseball ops department that liked Paxton before likes him again.
Also, these days one call to a player’s agent may be reported as interest and two calls may be reported as strong interest.
don’t forget the massive hypocrisy from people on this site who blasted bloom for making similar moves yet now praise and excuse the same types of moves.
acell: I haven’t seen anybody praise Breslow for anything.
You’ve either been blocked by them or just aren’t paying attention
The difference is most on this site are anticipating a major signing or two. Under Bloom, the team let stars walk, was forced by fans to overpay for Devers and only added Story for big money. Not what fans expect from a big market club that in the past always had a top five payroll
Ignorant – Breslow did get some praise for the Dugie and Arias trades, and for bringing in Bailey. But overall he really hasn’t done much worthy of praise.
Personally I’ve made it very clear I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt until around March, but the Lawson hire and some minor player acquisitions really don’t sit well with me.
acel – You been hitting the eggnog or something?
If anybody blocked him, he would still be able to read the messages. He just wouldn’t be able to REPLY to them.
dewey – Bloom was on the job for 4 years and Breslow has been on the job for 2 months.
No rational person would call for somebody’s head after just 2 months.
Fever: I don’t block people so I don’t pay attention too much to how it works (it’s rather cowardly to do so) but I do find it funny that you decided to insult me.
They haven’t directly praised him but there’s an implied tone that looks at him in a better light. That is quickly changing with every big deal he doesn’t make.
I’ve had others argue with me about it, so they definitely have looked at him as a better alternate to Bloom, albeit with nothing to go off of.
Again, every deal Breslow doesn’t make, the more people are comparing him to Bloom.
acel – And again, you muting others has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to see the posts of those who have muted you.
So you admit you don’t know “how the muting works”, but you pretend to be an expert on the subject by chastising Ignorant about it? And he got 15 upvotes, how many you get?
Since you brought up the subject of funny, I find it extremely funny that a supposedly grown man feels insulted because you were asked if you had drank some eggnog after you posted something nonsensical. You know I was being polite, right? And that several others here would have likely used much stronger language, right?
Maybe a good New Years resolution for you might be to focus more on baseball and less on other posters here?
@acell10 Fever is a pain. Just put him on ignore. He gets likes on his posts from himself or others close to him but he acts like he knows everything. That’s fine, until he makes it personal and implies things about you without knowing your true opinion. Plus, he’s always negative about the Red Sox. Not a guy you want to have a conversation with to feel good about your team. He won’t even see this because he’s since blocked me, but I’m not one to step down. I had him muted for a bit but decided to lift the ban just to see what he posts because it’s honestly comical at this point.
ok so I got the muting thing wrong. I admitted as much. My only point in bring up the eggnog thing is how you generally chastise people when you feel as though they insult you. You’re very sensitive in that way. I don’t mute people because I’m not a coward so I don’t pay much attention that.
It’s also kind of sad when anyone one has to measure “likes” on post to make themselves feel better. Not something grownups do.
Cora: he’s fairly harmless…just extremely sensitive and hypocritical. If you approach it from that perspective it’s usually funny but sometimes he veers into being pathetic.
acel – Why would I feel you insulted me? You went after Ignorant, not me! I was just defending him, as I would anybody.
The likes had nothing to do with feeling good, and everything to do with agreeing that Ignorant was correct and you were wrong. Sheesh!
Okay moving on here, I do think you have some good points to contribute, hopefully with Bloom gone those points can be discussed without any bias. If you’re a friend or relative of his just say so.
Likes don’t prove right or wrong especially on the internet and I think Ignorant can handle himself without you white knighting on his behalf.
I hope now that bloom is gone you’ll leave your bias at the door too. and also stop plagiarizing other peoples jokes. Perhaps you’ll even admit you’re wrong too when you are but I won’t hold my breath.
Dude, it’s not Chaim and it’s not Breslow. It’s Henry. Henry likes guys like Paxton because they are cheap.
Dark – This isn’t directed at you, but it’s weird how 40% of the people here think Henry is micro-managing Breslow and another 40% think Henry doesn’t pay attention to the Sox or give a crap about how they are doing on the field.
I think it’s a good idea to take these media reports with a grain of salt. Chances are there’s ulterior motives involved, either with the Red Sox or Paxton.
Brian O’Halloran is an incompetent fool.
That guy doesn’t even do anything
Suit – He pitched well when healthy, it’s just a question of staying healthy. If it were up to me, hard no.
Fever: Yeah, I think it is probably a bad idea to sign him. I guess it is possible that Breslow did not agree with ownership that he would go “full throttle” so he is not. I think Breslow set up specific parameters before he agreed to take the job and we don’t know what the agreements are. Full throttle is vague. Werner saying that will probably leave half the fan base disappointed no matter what happens unfortunately.
Henry has partners and has a fiduciary responsibility that Steve Cohen doesn’t have. I always said the same thing about Steinbrenner so let’s see what develops in and after 24.
And we can spend our hard earned money elsewhere.
Dewey – Let’s see when the next Forbes list of MLB team profits comes out.
Even with the Mass Mutual revenue, Sox had to see a big hit on their bottom line this year.
Nice of Forbes to make guesses, but they don’t have access to the books either. Don’t put too much stock in their list.
dewey – Technically Cohen owns only 95% of the Mets, with the Wilpon/Katz families owning the remaining 5%.
Interestingly, Henry owns only 40% of FSG which means Werner and others could potentially join forces and push Henry out as principal owner.
that’s never going to happen.
acel – Henry will be mid-80’s by the time Corners is complete. If he continues to make nonsensical decisions that hurt the bottom line, he most definitely could be forced out by then. How many guys that old (or older) are running MLB teams?
Fever: currently how many owners are in their 80s? there are several MLB owners in their 80s (at least on paper) running MLB teams with a couple in their 90s although I’m dubious how much say the 90+ crowd has .
Red Sox: Send us your oft injured, your old and your cheap players
At this point, ownership isn’t even disguising their contempt for the fanbase.
Hey John Henry and FSG if you’re not going to spend to keep up with the rest of the division just sell the club already to a person or group who will.
Box – When the Sox are no longer profitable, I think they will sell. Might not be until after the Corners and ASG are done.
We legit need to stay away from the team till something is done .. because all we r doing by watching the games and going to the games and buying the memorabilia etc.. all that’s doing is putting money in their pockets so they don’t care as long as their profit margins are up than too them it’s acceptable… They have the oldest stadium in the league which means they basically spend nothing too really maintain the stadium unlike the newer stadiums the up keep is much more than add in their TV deals and everything else so they are making so much while putting out so little .. than u add in the fact than they don’t spend money on free agents .. we have no legit stars .. devers is good but not the biggest name outside of Boston .. our pitching is horrid… The ticket prices are the highest of any team if not the highest pretty close too the highest.. I love this team with every fiber of my body and will always say I’m a Redsox fan but I cannot continue too watch them tear this team down they way they have and keep doing what their doing .. I’m not asking for a world series every year or every five years hell not even every ten years but I just want them to be competitive every year and see that their putting effort and a little money into the team
Which is pretty much the same as it was before Bloom. So was Bloom really the problem or does it go much deeper than anyone realizes?
The Forbes numbers show ridiculously low operating profits because they only include the facility not all the other revenues gathered by the Red Sox. The numbers don’t reflect accurate numbers. The net worth of the club might be close but they don’t have access to the books.
Are the Red Sox worth $4.5Billion? Probably. Did they ONLY make $71.6MM in 2023? No way. Multiply that by 4.5 and you might be close to their profits banked in 2023.
TF – I know the teams don’t provide their financials to Forbes, but I think the estimates that Forbes publishes are as good as you can get.
$479M in revenue
$217M in player payroll
$72M Net Income
That leaves $190M in non-player expenses and sharing revenue with other MLB teams, seems reasonable to me especially considering how much they’ve spent renovating in and around Fenway. Last year alone they renovated the players locker room and coaches room, and constructed a women’s locker room, and replaced all the lighting with LED. All the major renovations from prior years is being depreciated every year, and the non-player payroll has skyrocketed with so many new upper level positions being created. It’s not like the old days when there was a President, VP, GM and Assistant GM. The coaching staff has more than tripled, there isn’t just one pitching coach and hitting coach like the old days.
Forbes is as reputable as it gets, however I would be interested in knowing how they arrive at each team’s bottom line.
The article should say”the Red Sox are showing strong interest in Jordan Montgomery”
I think the Sox might want to stop being interested in aging, frequently injured pitchers
There’s a horse loose in the hospital
This old horse is knackered!!! Time to take this old horse off to the knacker!!
Please tell me this is a Dr Octagon reference
Red Sox better get their stuff together pretty quick. The names that were somewhat tough to corral are gone now. Let’s get this done and in a hurry.
2 starting pitchers, a more reliable Masher for the Outfield and not some pipe dream, and a second base dude with a good bat.
I can see the season ticket holders putting there wallets away! Pitiful gentlemen… just pitiful!
Maybe that’s what it would take, the fans not showing up, to get these owners to invest
Fans will always show up to Fenway for the nostalgia of the oldest ballpark. The problem is that they will be mostly OTHER teams fans.
Why is that a problem? Money is money no matter where it comes from.
Because then the owners have no incentive to spend. Look at this year as a prime example. The sox have a payroll of 150m, yet, their pitching is bottom of the league, they refused to go all in on Yamamoto, and refuse to spend on Snell or Montgomery, that is acceptable for their fans to be a big market team that does not spend?
We don’t know what they bid or will bid on those pitchers. I wish we knew.
How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man!?
SpongeBob ftw.
Rich Hill next?
if that happens, the way things are heading, Hill could end up being their best signing.
Over the hill Rich?
So let me get this straight, you fits your POBO and hire someone new just to sign the same useless players?
This is surprising to me. Why would they make the same mistake? I cannot believe any team trying to improve is considering giving this guy a ML deal. He’s a decent pitcher, but can’t stay on the field….ever. And, now that he’s 35, it’s going to be even worse.
I don’t put too much faith in the Red Sox media. Most of them seem overly negative.
That makes sense guys. I hope for both your sakes you don’t get this guy again.
And why would that be?
Maybe 3 last place finishes in the last 4 years….
Are some ppl really this dense?
I wouldn’t be completely surprised if a courtesy call was made to him or his agent from the Sox and now to generate more interest in Paxton his agent leaked this
He was fine after he came back, he just ran out of steam at the end. No issues with Paxton per se, but they need to aim higher and younger.
Tang – He suffered an injury that ultimately ended his season.
The season was over at that point regardless. He was fading before that.
Before that he was getting lit up. No thanks.
Tang – The knee problem began June 24 when he was removed early because of it.
He gutted it out because the team was fighting for a playoff spot … until they weren’t.
Box – June 24 was when the injury forced him out of a game. He was not lit up anytime prior to that game.
Maybe he’ll get $16 an hour with an opt-out in June.
It seems like another wasted year. Big market team spending like a small market team.
Bingo! I’m checking out of following them until I see a real sea change. Pathetic.
I don’t get Henry at all. He wasn’t afraid to spend for two decades and he got three championships out of it. Now he’s the real Scrooge.
I.M – Henry didn’t stop spending. Bloom never asked until cornered by his stupidity with Devers. Bloom got no NOs from Henry and the owners. He was simply an idiot who thought he had a better way and was as wrong as any idiot can be.
If Breslow asks for anything, there will be no NOs but he must ask for it to get it.
It doesn’t hurt to ask.
Boring medium-risk/medium-reward signing but a good dude.
One year, prove it contract, depending upon the amount, isn’t a bad option for a player like Paxton and some others like him. Do your homework beforehand and buyer beware!
Agreed. He’s no safe bet to stay healthy but he’s a good pitcher and a good dude.
Could be a good grab in an effort to let Sale go to try and win a chip. Teams would go to grab an experienced playoff arm. Paxton knows he’s not tipping the scales on any team at this point.
Why they would bother with signing Paxton is beyond comprehension… Red Sox fans, what’s up with the Sox? It feels like they lack direction, anyone care to offer perspective?
“… a Red Sox club that figures to continue its focus on adding a front-end starting pitcher even after missing out on Yoshinobu Yamamoto earlier this week.” Cut the crap! They were never going to get Yamamoto. Stop spinning it like they actually had a chance.
I’m not opposed to it as long as we’re not giving more than a guaranteed year and a team option for a second year.
Dude is made out of paper mache
Oh man…this comments section is gonna blow up with bloom comps
Solid 4 if healthy. For the right price I would be interested.
solid 4 if healthy. sure because that is what the Sox need because they have a great 1-2-3 right?
Not all moves are made in linear order.
Huh? For all intessive purposes with Christmas it’s now 2024 and 2 months are GONE with only 1 FA signing of some bum pitcher they gave a million bucks to. Give me a effing break or just STFU
When is he ever healthy?? The guy is constantly injured.
His first injury happened while he was being born.
More like YourNightmareGM
The last time this guy pitched frequently and well was pre-pandemic.
He pitched pretty well last year until the end… not sure where you were then. It’s not a bad deal to take him back, we just can’t rely on this to be a “big” deal for pitching.
It was a tale of two halves for him last season. 2.73 ERA and .98 WHIP in his first ten starts, 6.98 ERA and 1.77 WHIP in his final nine. Not quite sure what happened, but bringing him back on a one year deal isn’t the worst option (at this point) in my opinion. It’d be better than doing absolutely nothing like they have so far, at the very least.
As the article also mentions, he was great except for one stint that messed up all his ERA. At times, he was easily our most reliable starter, at least early on. I think people are overlooking this and basing off the season we had. Paxton was actually a bright spot in a bleak season if you consider how long he was out prior.
I’ll gladly take him back but he’s not taking care of the elephant in the room.
It sounds like the Sox are not going to get Snell or Montgomery! They have their media already spinning this! John Henry does not want spend any money. He thinks FA’s stand in line to play in Boston. This not working out!
Baseball is an exclusive club where word travels FAST and when you fire a well respected established guy like Dombrowski the way Henry and Co. did –you get a bad reputation. That’s why nobody wanted the POBO job to begin with and they had to hire a guy that’s never had the job before! Bottom line this ownerships arrogance and hubris is costing the club. They either need to recalibrate asap or start to look to sell the club.
Montgomery and Imanaga should be the left handed focus for the BoSox along with Giolito for a right hander. Imagine….Imanaga, Gio, Montgomery, Pivetta or Bello and Sale as the rotation!?! 6 man rotation by having Pivetta or Bello to follow Sale. Or go after Burnes or Cease in a trade instead of Gio. Whichever way you look at it, this sure looks like a pretty d@mn good rotation and Whitlock, Crawford & Houck can be in the pen!
And for the love of God go sign Merrifield to a 1-2 yr deal & quit talking about it!!
Time to shut up and step up to field a competitive team!!!
lol that team you proposed is sure something
Jurassic…Got a better solution?
We gotta get someone with a glove that can hit…base stealing is a plus!
For being 35 he still has quite a bit in the tank.
Most of last season he showed nothing in the tank.
hitman – No offense but I’d rather have Houck, Bello and Crawford than Giolto and then add in the ridiculous money and a big NO to Giolito.
Monty will go back to Texas. Breslow can over pay for Snell and we can hear about signing a Cy Young who sucks right after he wins the award. That’s David Price all over again except Price had better stuff back then.
Match-ups make the current starters look bad. If you match a #3 vs a #1 the #3 tends to look bad. Price, Sale, Eovaldi, Porcello and E-Rod was the top five when Boston had success. We need a new Price and Sale followed by Bello, Houck and Crawford. Crawford needs to face #5 SPs not #3 SPs and Houck needs to face #4 SPs not #2 SPs. Two big guns will move the young starters down in the rotation and improve their chances of winning. Sale can be a floater unless he has a big spring then he can be the #3 and move Bello and Houck to 4 and 5.
Merrifield should be a no brainer. Good glove. Speed. Can play OF too if someone like Valdez plays well. He’ll be cheap and 2B needs to be cheap so 3B can be expensive and Yoshida can be traded for pitching.
I agree it’s time to step up Breslow.
TF – Trust me, you don’t want Giolito. I would completely stay away from him, no matter how much cheaper he can be had.
I’m fine with him, so far as this isn’t the only big deal for a pitcher. We can take him but we need to do better overall.
That makes 1 of 30 lol
Chaim Breslow is throttling NOW! Corey Kluber is on line 2…
Large difference between the ineffectiveness of Kluber and Paxton but your point still stands and is well heard. Breslow needs to do better.
Breslow needs to tell Henry to take the handcuffs off that’s what!
Boxscore – Henry has NEVER had handcuffs on Bloom or Breslow. They need to ask to get the money. Henry gave Bloom Devers ridiculous numbers because he doesn’t say no except to Mookie after he disrespected him. He has in the past asked for Home town discounts but with each ring that seemed less important. I see no barriers to the money Breslow needs to get talent I see a bad culture, an unscrupulous manager, a GM afraid to move Devers to his only legitimate position and a roster that is close to AAA. Those are Breslow’s biggest barriers to success in landing free agents. He needs to take a hard look in the mirror and see the wreck that Bloom left and start trading Bloom farm hands before people figure out how much they suck. Trade them all and get pitching and a 3B. Everything else will take care of itself if Devers is DH and Yoshida is traded and Cora is fired.
Insanity….repeating a negative action and expecting a positive result! Stop insulting Sox fans with BS!! Time to sell the team to someone who cares about winning John “mumbles” Henry!
We call Henry the “Ghoul” around our house
Maybe the Kluber signing was not Blooms idea?
Thec – You think it was Cora’s? Maybe, he’s an idiot.
If he comes back it better be because they signed or traded for two younger, better pitchers. Otherwise it looks like you fire a guy and then literally run his same players back again. That would point the finger squarely at ownership of they do that.
I heard the Red Sox are also trying to talk strasburg out of retirement
Technically Strasburg isn’t retired, the Nationals canceled that parade in September and he’s still on the 40-man roster for the time being.
Paxton pitched well until he ran out of gas at the end. Fine addition but he can’t be the only pitching addition Breslow signs
lol watch it be
Good for the Yankees, bad for the Red Sox
I see an article like this and at this point it’s pure comedy. I’m a diehard Red Sox fan, logo tattoo’d on my leg, baseball was my first love, and I’ll watch 9 innings of Red Sox vs Pirates on a Tuesday night. I’m done. John Henry(and associates) has ruined what I’m passionate about.
lol at getting a tattoo. Cuck
I know what you mean. And fear there is worse to come in the next several weeks. Such as expensive panic moves as the calendar flips to 2024.
Just give up on players like this. He’ll just wind up being hurt again, what’s the point? They let Wacha leave only to have him be consistent every season since and keep trying to patch it up with injury prone guys.
I agree signing Paxton is probably a bad idea. Wacha has only been gone one season and he missed a lot of time due to injury last year.
i remember months ago when i said the sox were not serious contenders for yamamoto and that the most we were gonna get were low-cost veteran depth signings and everyone said i was just a hater lmao. as these types of deals go i don’t hate a paxton return but it’s definitely not gonna do anything to give the impression the front office is trying to turn over a new leaf
thecroc – What’s not to like about a guy being a Bloom hater. I am. As far as Breslow goes, each passing day lowers his value as a GM. He needs to understand the pure torture of Bloom to understand the thought process of Red Sox nation. We need action. It’s that simple. If you over pay for an all-star too bad. It’s not our money and ownership is about 3 billion up right now so let them over spend on an all-star. We aren’t talking a Yoshida or Story or even a pathetic 3B that can’t field, we are talking REAL all-stars. Either SPs who will pitch in the all-star game or hitters who can field and belong in the all-star game. You know, guys like Betts, Benny, JD, Bogey!! Yep guys like we had. ALL-STARS.
The Paxton suggestion is why nobody should ever read sites like Fangraphs or Statcast. It warps your mind. People are artificially inflated to be something they aren’t. Paxton is a broken down old pitcher hoping to throw 100 innings if possible. Is that a guy worth considering? No because his cost will be greater than his value.
Bloom was wrong about nearly everything he did so I say bundle up all his great draft picks and send them to somebody who will give us an all-star or two and let the future be the old DD farm system guys like Casas, Rafaela and Abreu.
In February 2020 I declared the Mookie deal a five year set-back. It was and it may turn out to be more than that since Bloom got rid of JD, Bogey, Benny and Eovaldi too. DD came in a got Price, then Sale, then JD in back to back to back years. If Breslow moves Devers to DH, fires Cora and gets ONE all-star it will be progress. Two all-stars would be better and we have the money. Without the Devers move, the team will be .500 going forward and I question whether Devers will ever have another 140+ OPS in his career without Mookie, JD and Bogey. The rest of the team doesn’t come close to those guys now so why pitch to Devers? This team will suck until all-stars are added to build the hitting. Farm guys will take time to come into their own and be all-stars so we need some immediately. Yoshida’s money and what’s left in the bank is plenty to get two or three all-stars. The farm system can be used to find all-star pitchers. Mayer hasn’t shown that he will EVER be as good as Bogaerts and Yorke has never shown an inkling of being a new age Pedroia. These guys may end up being first round busts by Bloom just like all his other busts.
The key question now is can things get worse? better? Or will the status quo exist until Breslow is fired?
I’m with you on most of this, Troll! It’s always puzzled me that Bloom was willing to outlay so much for Devers, who was clearly the member of that core group with the most warts. He shouldn’t be playing the field and he isn’t ever going to be a confident/refined enough hitter to carry a lineup on his own. Seems like a desperation extension made to placate an unsettled fanbase. Mayer is looking increasingly like a bust, and both Story and Yoshida were horrible missteps, attempts to be cheap even with our splurges. Paxton is no spring chicken, either, and I agree that signing guys of his ilk is not a winning strategy—I only mean that, as aging and unreliable veteran starters go, Paxton’s a half-decent one.
I don’t share your enthusiasm for Benintendi, whose development got thrown off as soon as he started trying to bulk up (not sure whose idea that was but it totally destroyed his confidence in his natural hit tool). And I’m more inclined to spend big at the top of the free agent market than I am to blow up the farm system, which is perhaps the only good thing that came out of the Bloom regime. But I’m also not convinced that teams in top-market cities need to guard their prospects quite as closely as in places like Tampa or Cincinnati, and I’d like to see Breslow make some use of the pieces he has at his disposal while their value is high.
Frankly, it would be good for Breslow to clean out the attic and trade some combination of Houck, Whitlock, and even Casas (who is a defensive nightmare in his own right) alongside prospects to recoup some significant MLB talent. It’s obvious the Padres are more or less giving their talent away right now; one might start there.
thecroc – The farm system under Bloom DID NOT improve. Those are marketing numbers not real numbers. The majority of the rise in the rankings came from Mayer and he’s no #4 pick. He’s another Downs waiting to happen. I hope I’m wrong but his numbers suggest a league average to slightly above league average player not even close to a Bogaerts who they dumped to make room for this guy in 3 to 5 years. Story once was a solid SS but he’s not been that guy for years so he would need to be a great comeback story to even be considered above league average.
You want to trade the good farm guys and keep the bad ones and I want to do the opposite. Trade the guys with great hype like DD did. Mayer isn’t even as good as Moncada so deal him now before people figure it out. Deal Yorke. Deal Jordan and all the other 5 to 15th ranked prospects and add all stars to the roster. Two all-stars at a minimum need to be added to make an attempt at getting out of the cellar in the AL East. 4 all stars would make them a playoff team if 2 of the four are top notch SPs.
Why do you believe Casas is a defensive nightmare when his actual results shows he’s league average which is incredibly better than Devers who we have kept there for 7 miserable years? That makes no sense. We need to fix REAL problems. We can fine tune later. Casas can hit and fields adequately for now. Devers needs to DH. Story should be dealt for a better SS or let Rafaela play there. We need a 2B like Merrifield but there are many out there that would be just fine. A true 3B is needed. The outfield is covered. The SP3-5 is covered. A lefty reliever/closer is needed to get the big lefty hitters out late in the game.
That’s it. The list isn’t long. We have a ton of money and we have a bunch of grossly over-rated farm hands from Bloom to deal while their value is high. When Downs was ranked 44th I was screaming to throw him in a deal with Verdugo and Wong to get players of value. Now, we need to deal Mayer and Yorke to get their highest value but I’m afraid we might be too late on Yorke. Jordan needs a fast start in the minors this year to raise his value.
During DD’s time in Boston he didn’t spend time marketing his farm system except when he wanted to get something special like Sale. Bloom spent all his time marketing his farm players and NOT ONE has shown signs of being a future all-star. It’s time to give them one last hype and move them for things we need.
Well, I mean, the farm system did improve under Bloom. To the extent that we can rely on accredited rankings, that’s just a fact. I agree with you that said rankings are subjective and are not a guarantor of future success, but if you’re going to say that the farm system rankings are “marketing numbers” you might as well just disavow all farm system rankings.
That being said, I agree that letting Bogaerts walk was criminal, I agree that Story is not a true SS anymore, and I agree (like I said) that Mayer is not what he was billed to be. To your questions about Casas, if you’ve ever watched him play you know he has a lesser understanding of 1B fundamentals than half the kids I played little league with. But the bigger issue is that with Yoshida also on the roster there’s no room for Devers to DH. I think trading Casas while his value is highest for young, elite starting pitching and moving Devers to 1B is the easiest way to address the fact that the team employs at least 3 people who ought to DH full-time, none of whose contracts can be moved.
You’re simply not going to be able to trade Story, Devers, or Yoshida. No team in the world is going to take on those contracts. So if you want to clean house, it’s going to have to be with more desirable guys like Casas. I agree that Jordan and Yorke could move too (and I wish to god they’d trade Mayer now before he fully busts). But I think it’s wishful to believe we could offload the expensive contracts on the roster, especially if you’re expecting to get better returns than we did with Mookie. Remember, part of the reason we only got Verdugo, Wong, and Downs out of that was that David Price’s albatross was attached to it.
I share in your frustration and I think Breslow’s full of hot air about fixing the roster issues in a meaningful way, but I also don’t think it’s realistic to expect him to be able to completely retool all the mistakes his predecessor made. Some of these guys aren’t going anywhere.
I don’t know how you or anyone else could realistically say that after only half a season of struggling with playing through an injury that Mayer is not “what he was billed to be”. it’s incredibly short sighted and not rooted in any real discerning evaluation.
@acell, I’ve watched him play in Greenville and his swing is just a mess. I’m not saying every can’t-miss prospect tears up every level of the minors immediately, but I can tell you that what I’ve seen from him does not look encouraging. And the numbers aren’t great, either. There’s still time to turn it around, and I hope he does!
you’d literally be the only person saying his swing “was a mess” in greenville. it’s been well document that after the may 7th shoulder injury he wasn’t the same and prior to that he was hitting .337.
As for his numbers as I said both prior to his injury this year and the year before he met the lofty expectations that were foisted on him. He’s also consistently been one of the youngest players in the league and still performed at a high level.
If you don’t like Bloom that’s fine but crapping on Mayer just because you don’t like bloom is ridiculous.
Just offering my opinion on what I’ve seen. Not claiming to be a professional talent evaluator.
As for Bloom, I actually don’t think the current situation is his fault. He did exactly what ownership hired him to do, and I believe he did a good job replenishing the farm. Not sure why so many people like to act like the farm is exactly the same as it was four years ago. It’s significantly more talent-studded.
I’m disputing your opinion. fair back and forth. Bloom had his flaws but to deny that he helped build back the farm system is to deny reality.
crocus – A monkey could have done as well, if not better, at building up the farm system as Bloom did.
Look at the Sox draft positioning while he was in charge, and look at the players he inherited who were eventually flipped for more prospects.
The Red Sox farm system from 2010-2019 was rated the best in MLB based on all the genuine MLB players produced. That is the best way to judge a farm system, not all these polls that often contradict each other.
Troll. Take it easy on the Mookie deal . Just think where we would be without Conner Wong. Conner Wong out of Mookie Betts . WTF . WTF
For you older fans – When I read the headlines of this story I thought i was in the “Way Back” machine!!! hahaha Deja Vu all over again. I think that’s the third time I’ve written that in the last week. Bloom flashbacks are picking up. Is that foreshadowing of a disaster? Let’s hope not.
You change the GM but if the Owner won’t ok the money nothing changes. It’s simple people stop supporting them spend your money in other places.
ibuit – I don’t think the money isn’t being ok’d. I think every deal presented has been funded but the requested amount was a fair price in Breslow’s mind but not a competitive price when bidding against aggressive teams. That’s not an owner problem it’s a GM problem once again. DD bid $31MM for Price and got him. DD traded Moncada and Kopech (two highly over rated farm hands and got Sale).
Breslow needs to do the same. He needs to rachet up his bids to cover the cost of having a bad roster, a cheating manager and an extremely tough division and a hitters park when he goes after pitchers.
Trades are his best chance because NONE of the things that make Boston ugly matter much in a trade. Give the right resources and get the guy you want. Go get Burnes by overwhelming Milwaukee.
Give them Mayer, Yorke, Jordan Pivetta and Yoshida and ask for Burnes, Adames and Yelich. Yelich is to off-set Yoshida’s high payroll number. The rest is a salary dump before they lose Adames and Burnes. Make extensions for Adames and Burnes a contingency..
Offer Adames Story money so we can trade Story or play him at 3B. Offer Burnes 6 years for $150MM. Then go get another SP comparable to Burnes. Sign him for 6 years so the top of the rotation is set and the youngsters just need to deal with being against 3, 4 and 5th starters. Sale is depth in 2024 and then he’s gone and his money is replaced by one of the two new SPs.
Story doesn’t have the arm for third. They need to put him at second where he can be successful.
Take that, Yamamoto!
The Sox were never going to sign Yamamoto, not because they wouldn’t pay but because Yamamoto never had any intention of signing with anybody other than the Dodgers.
Waiting for a possible JT or JD reunion. You can never have enough DH’s per Bloom and Co.
This is what we’ve all been waiting for! A Christmas miracle in play! Ugh
This news would be bad enough, AFTER we picked up two front end starters. I cannot believe their thinking. Be creative for God’s sakes. Trade some of your “highlly touted” prospects.
No problem with him as a number 4 or 5 at a reasonable price tag, and the addition of a number 1 and 3 type. We needed 2 quality starters minimum and this isn’t it, so sign him up if your getting those other two.
“its stupid when the Red Sox say they cant find a pitcher, yet they ignore James Paxton. its like saying you’re hungry when theres a hot dog on the ground outside”
A dirty hot dog no one short of abject starvation will pick up off the ground and eat.
Jack – Well said!!!
Not bad I like it
The big Maple seems to me that you would get the best use out of him if he had an opener. Someone starts and gets 3-5 out, he comes in and pitches 4-5.1 and leaves. Maybe he gets 100-120 ip with less injury problems that ways
Murphy – Or maybe we just go for a healthy quality starting pitcher? And save the space in our MASH unit for Sale and others?
Paxton’s a decent ML pitcher.
This year isn’t going to be the time for a big splash.
This is still a rebuild.
you’re stretching it with decent. Rebuildor not way it’s a waste of money. especially if he’s expecting a raise off last year.
Any one year contract they give out is irrelevant unless you think they’re planning on contending for a WS next year.
They aren’t BTW.
I don’t think they are planning to contend but running it back with Paxton would be foolish even on a 1 year contract. they’d be lucky to get 15 starts out of him let alone 20
icon – Rebuild. That was the word used during Bloom’s reign of terror. He TORE THINGS DOWN. Bloom did absolutely no rebuilding during his time in Boston he did simple destruction only!!.
The rebuild starts in 2024 with Breslow, if there is to be a rebuild. If the GM can’t fire Cora and can’t move Devers to DH then why even have a GM? The rebuild may be just a shuffling of the deck of player cards by a guy who is just as qualified as Bloom to be a GM.
For this to be a true rebuild, Breslow will need to add all-stars to the roster. That hasn’t happened just like when Bloom took office. Granted he’s only been in his new job a couple of months but he has been in the industry for years and has held many different front office positions along with being a player so this stuff shouldn’t be new to him. He’s simply not acting on anything at this point, just like Bloom.
The good news is he can’t dump the franchise player for nothing like Bloom did. In fact, losing the lone all-star would be an addition through subtraction unlike losing Mookie, Benny, JD, Bogey and Nate.
So what will be the fate of the team that let a GM destroy it’s roster without actions by the owners? A team that has the single biggest cheater in the history of the sport as the Manager. A team that has a 3B who can’t field, a SS that can’t hit, no 2B, a 1B going into his sophomore slump. a left fielder who can’t field that must DH, a center fielder that had a break out year and now some of the idiot fans want to move him to the small LF area despite him being the fastest on the team. A right fielder who could be their superstar of the future unless they decide keeping him in the minors makes sense (which it doesn’t BUT that’s never stopped the front office from doing the wrong thing before!). And last and possibly least, a pair of catchers who may not exceed an OPS+ of 80 together!!! And that’s just the hitting!!!
Breslow has so many opportunities thanks to Bloom’s destruction. He could be a hero or he could be yet another goat. Not firing Cora makes him a goat in my eyes. Not moving Devers to DH shows he doesn’t belong in the job. Not out bidding the competition for any of the elite free agents is a reflection of the organization’s current status and a GM not prepared to compete with the big boys for big talent.
Doom and Gloom is the forecast until Breslow does ANYTHING of value other than dumping the worthless Verdugo and having the Yankees fund it!!.
I’m curious to see if Breslow will use the marketing techniques that Bloom used to pretend he was doing a good job. The false claims of improving the farm system, the over inflated values of players he acquired and the misleading dialogue about how things are getting better but it simply takes time. Breslow may not hire people to do the misdirection that Bloom did when it comes to social media. How many paid influencers came on this site to profess the greatness of Bloom when it was obvious he was a putz? I hope Breslow doesn’t use those bush league approaches to misguiding the fan base.
Let’s hope Breslow is a straight shooter when it comes to sharing information with the fan base. We deserve that after Bloom and Cora have lied since they arrived in Boston.
The integrity of the organization starts at the top with owners and if those owners don’t see firing Cora as a positive move, they should probably put the team up for sale so Boston can stand proud behind it’s team not be embarrassed by it’s manager, roster and owner apathy..
I’d like to point out, he has already been paid $18.5M over three seasons to barely pitch.
Based on his performance and durability last year, he could very well still get like 1 year/$10M to 2 years/$25M.
Watch it be like 2 years/$25M guaranteed: $10M a year plus a $5M buyout on a $17.5M club option- and then he gets re-injured, spends almost the entire time re-habbing.
At the rate he’s going, Paxton is gonna make like $43.5M over 5 years to hopefully pitch again and then retire having mostly been unable to make it back to healthy enough sports-wise to play again.
I’m not rooting against Paxton. I was very excited when he was on the Yankees. Really liked him, loved his potential- but he’s that guy- he’s the pitcher who offers potential and nothing more- and he is succumbing professionally to injuries that prevent him from being able to stay on the mound and even at his more healthy he isn’t truly the pitcher teams seem to think he could potentially be.
Sometimes potential is an emotional perception more than a statistical or objective perception.
Probably the best we can hope for from this sham management group is:
Imanaga
Stroman
Polanco via trade
Maybe add Paxton as depth or to make our pen one of the best in MLB by forcing Houck, Crawford, Whitlock and Pivetta into it.
Sox still going after bargain basement trash. Tell me again that Bloom was the problem.
oh they will. The mental gymnastics they do to justify that point is always hilarious. I just hope they stretched first so they don’t sprain anything
BostonAZ = Bloom was the problem. He got fired and now Breslow is the problem. Money is always available but it has to be requested and deals need to be set-up so they can be presented for funding.
We have no idea whether Breslow has been turned down for money and it’s my belief Bloom was never turned down. He simply never asked because he had his own beliefs on how to approach the GM job based on his time in TB where they have never won a RING.
Breslow needs to start aggressively seeking new talent not being the other guy that didn’t get the star in all these negotiations. His problem is the image of the organization, the manager, the defense, and the ball park if he’s recruiting pitching. To overcome all those challenges he needs to bid high like DD did. Pitchers don’t want to pitch in Fenway if they can pitch for LAD in their ballpark which is pitcher friendly.
Breslow is a genius according to everyone so he probably determines a value for each player. Then he requests money up to that value and loses out to others who don’t care about the value to cost ratios that drive his model. His theoretical thinking is great but it doesn’t land all-star quality players and that’s what Boston needs.
Bloom was the problem and apparently now Breslow is until he figures out how to outbid other big market teams.
Breslow was the third guy in Chicago not the top guy. No one wanted the job after they have fired so many GMs. What they did to Dombroski was bad too. No one wants to work for Henry. This is how you get guys like Breslow who was not even in the radar but got the job by default sadly.
Breslow needs to make sure to move veterans at the deadline. Waiting for kids to get enough reps on the farm is fine, but not admitting their in rebuild mode and pretending this team can compete has it’s consequences.
Redsox Nation has just signed with the LA Dodgers on an “until further notice” contract. There is an opt out whenever The Boston Redsox remove the heads from where the sun doesn’t shine!
Just read montgomery might be too expensive for the red sox current budget..if true that is really pathetic
I saw that. It seems like it came from someone outside of the Red Sox, so not sure if it is believable.
I hope it isn’t but if that’s the case that’s ridiculous. Montgomery even if overpaid should still be within the red sox budget. If they don’t want to spend then move on and cash out on the team.
Agreed. Hopefully we get some clarity soon.
All = According to SPOTRAC Boston’s current spending on the 2024 roster is as follows:
Active Payroll $117.8MM
Estimated Arbitration Salaries $15.8MM
Estimated Pre-Arbitration Salaries $10MM
Retain Salary (Money owed JT and two others) $7.9MM
That totals $137.3MM and the CAP is $237MM.
Thus, the suggestion that Monty is too expensive is absolutely ridiculous. Boston has $100MM to spend at this point and it needs:
2 SPs (SP1 & SP2)
1 3B to replace Devers when he moves to DH
1 2B
1 Lefty reliever/closer
1 starting catcher
The two pitchers can cost as much as $60MM and the 3B and 2B can cost $40MM in total and trading Yoshida for a lefty reliever and closer like a Hader can fill out the roster. If we have left over money we can get 4 more back-up catchers!! hahaha
Spotrac has the Red Sox at $174.7M now. That leaves about $62M before they hit the luxury tax threshold. Roster Resource has the Red Sox at $181.3M now. That leaves about $56M before they hit the luxury tax threshold. So, they should be an!e to improve the team from here.
able to improve
Boy, I hope yall don’t have to fight and have to battle with teams to get him. This is huge!!!
Tale of two halfs
Could work as a #5 in the rotation.
Oh FFS. If this was a follow up to signing Yamamoto I’d be indifferent. But as it’s looking like it might be the biggest move of the off season…ugh.
Going full throttle, I see. *rolls eyes*
At this point, I’m just waiting for John Henry to sell the team. This ownership needs to go away. Their large market lip service and small market behavior is embarrassing.
Pretty sure John Henry aint sitting around worrying about Schecky.
You clearly are.
“Making fun of ” doesn’t equal “Worrying about”
But then again, you’re Schecky. You wouldn’t know that.
Dude, that you need to call yourself “Icon” is all anyone needs to know about you.
But I get it. Criticizing your lousy team and its lousy ownership got you bigly mad. *pats your head*
This better be a mother $&&::):&@! Joke. Like…for real.
Dude rarely lasts his first start, year in and year out.
Paxton proved last year that when he’s healthy, he’s a very good pitcher. It just didn’t last. Get him healthy and hope for a longer stretch.
There, that wasn’t that difficult.
hayzee – That’s like saying “Buy a lottery ticket and hope for it to be a winner”.
Year 2 after TJ surgery is when you really see if a player has really bounced back. I wouldn’t mind a 1 or 2 year deal for Paxton. 2/40 is something I think the team can live with. We need rotation help and so far Breslow has done zero to address that. There’s still good pitching out there though and we have the payroll flexibility so I’m hopeful we get something done. Bloom did reconstruct the farm pretty well so we got trading pieces.
King – That’s a great point about year 2, but I think there is zero chance Paxton gets offered anything close to $40M guaranteed.
The guy suffered a knee injury just 6 weeks after his late start to the 2023 season, and it ended his season early. He needs to prove he can stay healthy before any team commits to more than $15M guaranteed IMO.
Please No ! Breslow are you kidding me? This is also on management too. This is their idea to improve this team in the offseason? Paxton is hurt every year for clumps of the season. Come on already! You missed out on top players, you traded Verdugo for cheap pitching, you picked up an outfielder who had a good year 3 years ago, now you want Paxton back who you paid for a rehab year! All this is is management taking profits now and charging high ticket prices for a mediocre product on the field and an amateur Baseball Operations guy. This is a last place team again !
I would take a flyer on Syndegard, Giolito and Paxton…. hope 2 of the 3 Bailey can work some Magic, then look to deal them before the trade deadline.