Former Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein will have a role with the team once again, as Sportico’s Brendan Coffey reports that Epstein is set to join Fenway Sports Group as a partial owner and senior advisor. Red Sox principal owner John Henry and chairman Tom Werner hold those same respective titles with the FSG conglomerate, which owns the Red Sox, Pittsburgh Penguins, Liverpool F.C., RFK Racing, NESN and several other sports holdings.
“It’s a great honor, something I’m really excited about,” Epstein tells Coffey. “It’s just exciting to be joining such a dynamic, groundbreaking company across multiple sports, doing so many innovative things at the cutting edge of everything going on in sports these days. For me, it’s perfect, I was looking for a pathway into ownership.”
While Epstein won’t be resuming his role as head of baseball operations, he does have a strong relationship with newly hired Red Sox chief baseball officer Craig Breslow. Epstein was the Cubs’ president of baseball operations when he hired Breslow as the team’s director of strategic initiatives. Breslow was eventually named the Cubs’ organization-wide director of pitching before being promoted to assistant general manager.
“I’m a full believer in him and what he and his team are going to mean for the Red Sox,” Epstein said of Breslow.
Per Coffey, Epstein will serve as a “sounding board and executive coach” to the Red Sox baseball operations staff when needed but doesn’t have a formal role within the baseball ops ranks in his return to the organization. According to FSG’s press release announcing the hiring, Epstein will advise Henry, Werner, CEO Sam Kennedy and president Mike Gordon “on the company’s sporting operations across the portfolio and consult on strategic growth and investment initiatives.”
“There is no question that Theo left an indelible mark on our history that represented a transformative era,” Henry said in a statement within FSG’s press release. “Welcoming him as a member of our ownership group and in the role of Senior Advisor to the broader company brings with it a sense of completion. With his strategic mind, leadership, and unwavering passion for sports, Theo brings invaluable assets that will drive us forward across our diverse enterprises, especially in our sporting operations across hockey, EPL football, and baseball. We take great pride in welcoming him to the FSG family and eagerly anticipate the insights and contributions he will bring as we continue to build on the legacy of success he played a pivotal role in helping us shape.”
Epstein, 50, was the Red Sox’ general manager from 2003-11, during which time he oversaw the construction of a 2004 Red Sox club that broke the organization’s 86-year World Series drought and quickly added a second championship four years later, in 2007. The Cubs hired Epstein away and gave him the new title of president of baseball operations following the 2011 season. As was the case in Boston, he broke a historic championship drought when the 2016 Cubs won the World Series for the first time since 1908.
Epstein stepped away from the Cubs following the 2020 season, ceding his president of baseball operations title to longtime general manager Jed Hoyer. Months later, Epstein was named a consultant to Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred — a role in which he’s credited with helping to implement MLB’s pitch clock and several other newer rule changes. He’s held until present day but will now step away from the commissioner’s office as he begins his next venture. Epstein will still serve the league’s Competition Committee and On-Field Committee “on an informal basis,’ per FSG’s press release, and he’ll be able to continue as the Operating Partner for Arctos Partners, a private sports equity firm that Epstein joined back in Feb. 2021.
FINALLY SOME GOOD NEWS. Our baseball lord and savior has returned!
Amen ! Maybe he will walk back in first day in a giant bear costume lol
Seriously though, this is great for baseball !
I thought it was a gorilla outfit in Chicago. Does a Bear version mean something different?
Hoping this is more than just a PR move. How much stake could he have? More importantly (I hope I’m not wrong), I don’t think he would soil his reputation locally if there wasn’t a real baseball plan in place (even if we as fans can’t see it).
Dewey: I don’t care about his other titles. The one that matters the most is”senior advisor”. I hope that means he’ll have a say in what players they need and who they should let go.
A lot we don’t know. The only thing that matters to me is Henry opening his purse on the right players. Montgomery is still an option and I’m thinking it’s 50!50 with Texas. With his wife’s residency in Boston, it just should happen.
Big Whiffa: This is great for the Red Sox! As part of Red Sox Nation, I feel a lot better about the team now and in the future. I agree 100% with what MafiaBass said.
Big Whiffa: This is great for the Red Sox! As part of Red Sox Nation, I feel a lot better about the team now and in the future. I agree 100% with what MafiaBass said.
Hey Theo looks like John Henry has other priorities maybe you can chip in some millions so the Sox can get a #1 starter. C’mon man help a club out!
I don’t read into this much.
I think Henry and FSG wanted the money held in Theo’s purse as managing partner of Arctos Capital to fund their PGA endeavor.
There’s only so many sports venture entities that don’t constitute a conflict of interest to go after, and, I think a seat in ownership was Theo’s price
GASoxFan: Sorry to hear that Theo was part of manfred’s madness. It seems Theo was the one pushing for the pitch clock, and Manfred is a big enough moron to go along with it and other idiotic changes. Can’t wait for the robot umpires. Can robot players be far behind? The Jetsons will love it. They’ll attend every game with number one fan Rosie.
GA: Epstein should have incentive to steer the Red Sox in the right direction. The better the Red Sox do, the more money he makes as an owner.
Great news!
Suit… I see this as more smoke and mirrors.
Go to arctospartners.com/sports/
Look at the logos they’ve now invested in – includes Liverpool, Boston, and Pittsburgh.
That’s also the sports venture capital group Theo is in charge of.
Theo bought a seat at the table. Like any good owner wanting to improve the value of his investment, he’s willing to see his name used…
GASoxFan: Hey, Liverpool is my team as far as being a huge fan (not in size, in fandom). They’re first in the English Premier League, the toughest of the big five conferences (France, Spain, Italy, Germany, England). I just hope Epstein doesn’t mess anything up with The Reds. (I knew you’d want to know 🙂
Avenger – so what’s your take on Henry trying to copyright the name Liverpool?
Good for him. Completely unknown what it means for the Red Sox.
Maybe a return of common sense?
Perhaps, but I’m skeptical. He’s an extreme minority partner. Certainly it will be great for Breslow to have him as a sounding board, but CB was hired to run baseball ops. For all we know, Epstein is interested in expanding out into other sports, or is more interested in the business side. Time will tell.
I have a feeling Breslow will consult with Epstein. He would be a fool not to.
suit – Absolutely agree!!!
How many times have I written there was nobody to mentor the inexperienced Bloom, and nobody to mentor the inexperienced Breslow.
Now, Breslow has a mentor. Even though I’m not as enamored with Theo as some of you here, without question his knowledge and experience will be an asset to the Sox front office.
@Fever, I don’t believe there’s any doubt that Epstein will have a significant role. He’s driven. Question, though, is this his next baseball move, or is this the next step in the evolution of his career. Maybe he’s interested more in the other sports and aspects of FSG?
Lord – Could be, I think it’s pointless to speculate what’s in his head.
I do think Theo as the next commish is a real possibility.
Fever: Agreed. I knew you would be happy about this. Question: If Epstein were to become commissioner some day, would be need to sell his ownership share in FSG? I have some doubt he would sell as he really seems to want to be an owner.
suit – If Theo becomes Acting Commissioner, no he could remain a Red Sox owner.
But if he becomes official commissioner, he would have to give up his ownership and title with the Red Sox.
Of course he could give his ownership stake to a relative, like Selig did.
Fever: Thanks. Wow. Giving up ownership to your relative is a joke.
Has Breslow been a mouthpiece for Theo? Hmmm…
Anybody care to give us a succinct synopsis of what “Fenway Sports Group” really is? I believe it’s the entity that owns the Rsox and a foreign soccer team, right?…And why did they recently pour BILLIONS into the PGA Golf Tour?
Read the article my guy…
“Read the article”..I’ve read a lot more than just this article my friend. I don’t see a lot of baseball groups investing BILLIONS in soccer and the PGA Golf Tour so I’m a bit perplexed. This article does not go into hardly any detail about the genesis or purpose of the FSG. I’m pretty sure the every day Red Sox fans would know much more than I.. I only watch the Rsox 1 or 2 days a week.
I suspect many Red Sox fans have been perplexed by FSG, and probably consider it more of a negative than a positive in how the Red Sox are run.
It’s just a little confusing for me. They’re doing things other baseball ownership groups are not doing. Anyone of prominence seemingly is a member of their group and how do you make a return on investment in Golf since you don’t really own teams in golf?
You make money with marketing opportunitities. Golf sells advertisements, event tickets, licensing agreements and has TV contracts just like any other league. Could be they are just sponsoring an athlete to get a logo on a shirt too. The ownership group has a billionaire that wants to own a soccer team. EPL is way bigger and the mega teams are way more profitable than MLB. It’s obviously unique but it really isnt super complicated. Billionaires gotta find something to invest and preserve/build wealth and a pro sports team is a pretty good way to do it.
MLB fan: Todd Boehly, who owns 50% of Chelsea in the EPL soccer league, also owns a big chunk of the Dodgers. And JJ Watt (the Watt brother who is retired) owns a piece of Burnley in the same soccer league. Also, LeBron James owns a piece of Liverpool.
Oh, and the Glazer family, who own the TB Bucs, also own Manchester United, arguably the richest team in pro soccer. The Glazers are hated by the MU fans. They finally got the message this year and sold 25% of the team
avenger – You mean LeBron owns a piece of Liverpool through his investment in FSG.
avenger – I don’t follow soccer, but my understanding is American owners across the pond are frowned upon because it’s just a business investment to them, winning isn’t all that important.
Sound familiar?
The article doesn’t cover what @mlb is talking about, Mike. I’m wondering about that also.
To understand FSG you actually need to go a bit further back.
In 2002 John Henry led a congolmerate, including the New York Times who took just under a 20% stake, in purchasing the Red Sox and Fenway Park from the Yawkey Trust (Yawkey family being owners since 1933.)
At the time it was called NESV, not FSG, being New England Sports Ventures. In 2007, they purchased a stake in the struggling roush racing team, which itself become roush fenway racing. In 2010, the group purchased Liverpool F.C. in a contested transaction where some of Liverpool group sued to stop the sale arguing the club was undervalued and that it was an unfair collided transaction. Against the backdrop of all this, 2011 saw two things happen – the NYT sold the first portion of their stake in the group, and, the group incorporated a successor entity – Fenway Sports Group. In 2012, the remaining stake was sold by the NYT.
That was basically status quo until 2021 when 2 things happened: Redbird Capital (same entity Billy Beane is in) along with LeBron James and company bought into FSG, and, FSG bought the Pittsburgh Penguins.
Now, in early 2024, you’ve got Theo Epstein (and maybe other unknown parties, possibly including this arctos partners) taking an ownership stake in FSG right when it is announced FSG is spearheading a $3 billion private investment into the PGA with the Saudi wealth fund also buying into things.
The takeaway is 2 things- FSG was never a baseball group, and doesn’t equal the redsox. FSG is sort of like General Motors… it owns Chevrolet, but, you can’t say Chevrolet *is* GM – it’s just a piece of it. Or use Lamborghini and Volkswagen. Or Dodge and Fiat… your choice.
The other takeaway is, MLB approved the red sox being sold to a company, NESV, and approved the initial owners of that entity. But, because it has its own shares, every time Henry dilutes ownership and brings new partners into FSG, he doesn’t need approval from the other team owners as the red sox themselves aren’t being ‘sold’… through all these new stakeholders, it’s only FSG that owns the Red Sox, that hasn’t changed.
The odds of getting 50.1% of FSG to agree to anything, such as a common buyer, means the red sox are effectively trapped as being a cash cow for all those investors and venture (vulture) capital groups.
The one thing I left out is NSEN.
FSG owns 80% of NESN, with the other 20% stake being owned by Delaware North, owners of the Boston Celtics and the Garden.
A couple months ago you’d recall the Pirates partnered taking a 30% interest is a local RSN with 70% owned by the Penguins, that share also belonging to FSG.
As to mlbfan asking how do you make money off golf? Sponsorship and ad revenue, plus I’d assume favorable streaming rights over your FSG controlled sports networks… then there’s the whole European circuit component and the merging LIV into the fold reportedly going on. Not a huge golf guy, but, I’m following the 20,000 ft summary since it’s another fiscal drain on money the red sox aren’t getting
“To understand FSG”..Very informative. Thanks.
So does FSG now own a part or a share of the PGA Tour? Excellent background information by the way.
Mlb fan –
Not exactly. The ‘agreement’ is so new that details are slowly trickling out. But, what I understand is this:
* FSG spearheaded a group that is called SSG, with many FSG owners individually listed (meaning, I think, they put up personal stakes in addition to the FSG stake) and even included Cohen, yes, that Cohen, of the Mets.
PGA Tour created a sub-entity called PGA Tour Enterprises. It was this sub-entity FSG & co bought into for $3b, and, is currently valued around $12b. The Saudi’s have the right to invest up to an equal $3b subject to separate negotiations.
The new entity would allow PGA Tour players to unlock ownership shares, based on participation, wins, milestones etc worth an aggregate of $1.5B, which, coincidentally is the initial tranche of funding from FSG & Co.
What IP and rights PGA Tour is transferring into the new entity I haven’t seen yet, but, predictably it must be some revenue generating streams or another.
Sorry to pick a nit, but I think Delaware North owns the Bruins, not the Celtics. So it’s the hockey team that has a 20% stake in NESN, not the hoops team.
Casey- I think you’re right. For some reason my brain jumps to the cells when I think of someone owning TD gardens, but, the bruins play there too, and, I think I mixed that one up!
GA – Great summary of the situation!!! Thank you.
TF – Do you appreciate the irony of Henry losing his ‘battle’ over equity in the end?
Before Theo, Henry wanted Beane. Beane would only come if granted equity in the Red Sox. Henry said no way, not now, not ever.
Beane got an equity stake in FSG when Henry wanted his money, through the Redbird financing round.
Theo wanted an equity stake to stay in Boston. Henry said no way, not now, not ever. Theo left for CHC.
Now Theo gets his equity stake when Henry wanted his money, through Arctos financing round.
Ironic isn’t it?
GA – The words “what goes around comes around” come to mind!!! In the end, there needs to be a savior who steps up and changes the dynamic within the Baseball Operations whether it’s owned by FSG or anyone else.
We need a hero to take the franchise off life support.
I HOPE that Breslow got wind of the changes and conspired to wait for a damn good reason. That’s probably wishful thinking but it could be a well played chess move. Time will tell.
GASox – Your posts have been fantastic, in both quality and length.
The only reason I knew you meant the Bruins is because NESN is the home of just the Red Sox and Bruins, not the Celts.
GASox – I never heard about Beane wanting an equity stake to be the Sox GM years ago, where did you hear it?
I do know Theo wanted a stake in 2011, but he also wanted complete autonomy from Lucky which Henry refused to give.
Fever – I’m surprised the factual recall was as spot on as it was with only that one slip-up. I guess it goes to show how important my redsox are to me that they can burn through that chemo haze like a pedroiaesque Lazershow!
It’s the monthly drive back to worcester on sunday/monday to make this week’s appointments. Either my numbers are headed back down, or, they’re going to need to consider cranking the chemo higher again. I’m pulling for the former, but, we’ll see.
Fever – I can’t give you a source because it would’ve been things i read in print media back 22 years ago when very little went on the internet.
But, the gist of the details back then were basically that Henry made what, for the day, was a big money offer for a gm, something around $3m a year, and, Beane had a love of the business side of things as well. He came back to Henry with the thought that it didn’t really make sense to uproot and move across country without their being a pathway into equity stake down the road to be part of bigger things, that that was the only reason it’d make sense to start over from square one and build a duplicate of what he had already done in OAK.
That always stuck with me, I just wish I remember where I was reading it all that time ago!
GASox – Dude, you have definitely been on top of your game the past few days/weeks. No offense to anyone else, but your posts have been phenomenal and must-read.
As always I’ll keep you in my prayers brother. If there’s even the slightest chance we could meet up in Atlanta for that Sox series, I’m interested.
GASox – I did do a few Google searches yesterday, came up with lots of great articles on the offer but none included any mention of equity.
It was a good refresher for me, I had forgotten Billy had actually accepted Henry’s offer, then backed out after a middle-of-the-night call with JP Ricciardi. All the articles said he was a West Coast Guy with a huge network of family and friends in Cali and he didn’t want to uproot his family especially his young kids.
I totally respect that. He was already a very wealthy man. If given the choice between family and being a bit more richer, family always comes first. Making your young daughter bawl her eyes out because she has to leave all her friends and school and town she loves, that ain’t worth any amount of money. For that I respect him.
It’s interesting John Henry also wanted Sabean, Ricciardi, and Gene Michael back then.
Can you imagine Stick running the Sox? The same guy who got Henry his first four rings …. wow!
Fever – sounds like a great time to me. The schedule isn’t kind though – I think it was April 7th when I looked it up, which, falls around two other events. One would be the worcester trips are usually set by the docs somewhere between the 5th and 11th based on their schedules and the day of week.
The other thing is, last total solar eclipse in the country until like 2044 or some such. I’ve mused with trying to catch it, being itll be around solar maximum too (better show during totality).
So, we shall see. But based on the offseason so far..,.I’m not inclined to give Henry any money to attend in boston.
GASox – It’s always May for some reason, this year May 7th-8th.. So the eclipse won’t be a factor, but your doctor trips could conflict.
As we get closer to May, if it looks like a possibility for you let me know.
Yeah I’ve already posted a few times I will likely go to only one game at Fenway, the one honoring the 2004 team. Not sure what day that will be yet.
GASox – Outstanding post!
Why would MLB allow a corporate conglomerate to siphon off profits from one of their teams to fund other sports entities? You’d think it would be a no-no in the MLB bylaws?
When Liberty Media owned the Braves, they weren’t allowed to take money out of the team. MLB can’t possibly be happy that one of their marquee franchises has been reduced to a perennial last place team because they are not reinvesting their profits into the team.
Fever – I’d agree at some level mlb frowns upon things, BUT, its been a relatively new phenomenon with BOS. Up until the last 2 years the money was there to spend to or over the CBT limit, so, no harm no foul.
The team had an inept.exec who allocated funds poorly, but, they went over the CBT so it appeared they were trying. And, they paid into revenue sharing, so, life was good.
Last year, receipts were likely down on GameDay. And the spending on the roster was down as well. This year that trend is intensifying, although, Henry and Co are trying to cover up the former by raising ticket prices. Selling fewer seats at higher price brings revenue closer to flat. But that can only work so long.
I think there’s other team owners out there watching what fsg has been up to lately very closely. Remember, didn’t mlb not want Cuban as an owner because of fear of siphoning profits to other ventures?
The rising prices will only cover them for a year, maybe two. Unless the higher ticket prices are met with a commensurate increase in effort (read: spending) from the front office, they are just going to accelerate all of us real fans’ disinterest in supporting the team under current leadership. It might be the only thing that keeps up appearances in the short term but in the long term it’s the same shovel they’re using to dig their grave. Honestly, unless they’re planning to sell the team within the next 6 to 18 months it’s a really baffling move to me. They know they’re playing with fire with this fanbase, they have to be up to something.
It is a holding company that owns the Boston Red Sox, Salem Red Sox, Fenway Park, Fenway South, the Pittsburgh Penguins, SportsNet Pittsburgh, and some soccer team over in England as well as majority stakes in the New England Sports Network, a racing team, and a team in Tiger and Rory’s yet to launch Tomorrow Golf League in addition to a minority stake in the Worcester Red Sox. The company has a sports management division that does marketing, sponsorship, and special event planning as well as a commercial real estate division that owns and operates the stadiums for the teams they own outright as well as some developments adjacent to Fenway and Fenway South. John Henry and Tom Werner are the founders and general partners and LeBron James has been a notable minority partner in the company and now Theo Epstein will join him. Given FSG has been rumored to want to expand into football and/or basketball, do not be surprised to hear about more and more wealthy famous people being brought in as investors so they can do a capital raise sufficient to make such an acquisition.
As for what Theo becoming a part owner in FSG entails, who knows. Sounds like they are trying to downplay the possibility that he will be anything more than a silent partner, and it is definitely best to not immediately undermine your new GM hire by railroading him with a shadow GM/PBO who isn’t even officially employed by the Red Sox, but hopefully he will be active in providing some guidance to the Sox front office when wanted or needed
DirtyWater –
FSG no longer owns any piece of the Salem Red Sox or the WooSox.
In Mar of 2023 they divested the Salem franchise to Diamond Baseball Holdings.
In Dec of 2023 they along with 10 other minority owners sold their shares to Diamond, with Lucchino & 2 others keeping all their shares but lucchino now falls to a minority staus by percentage
Ah, my bad I never heard that. Thanks for the correction.
Dirtywater – it’s just another data point to me that Henry is less interested in the red sox as a baseball team as he is in it as a cash cow for his sports congolmerate.
They owned and controlled the pipeline of teams for the minors, amd, now Diamond does. Why? Because they were worth more as a cash infusion to go after other top level clubs than as controlling the pipeline for the red sox.
GA: FSG owned 2 of the 4 Red Sox minor league teams. What difference does it make that they now own none?
As a Red Sox fan don’t really care. What I care about is the ownership group or whatever they are being laser focused on improving the club.
100%, GA. Henry’s ownership group was, in my opinion and I think objectively, one of the very best in the league back in the day when they cared and put everything into the Sox. Their first foray into other ventures when they bought the soccer team didn’t seem to slow them down on the baseball side either so I didn’t mind. But with every acquisition since then, the larger the FSG portfolio has grown, the less and less they care about the Red Sox.
They almost went public a few years ago via a SPAC offering called Redball. I’m really sad that it fell through. Would love for them to be required to publicly file their financial statements. I have a feeling it would confirm what we all suspect which is that they are extracting cash from the Red Sox back into the holding company to use for other purposes. Officially, the deal fell apart because the SPAC failed to raise the required minimum amount of capital to close the deal by their deadline, though since they never pursued another deal with someone else nor explored going the IPO route, I wonder if they decided they wanted to keep a little detail like that private. They have to know there will be pitchforks if we ever get confirmation of that being the case.
The Portland Sea Dogs were owned by the same family from inception until agreeing to sell the team just last year to Diamond. So FSG never had the AA piece of the puzzle because it was probably never available. Likewise the high A Greenville Drive were just launched in 2005 and are still owned by their original owner, for whom the Drive is very much a passion project and hence would not have been for sale. But still, to have the AAA and A affiliates under team ownership and control, I don’t see why that would be a bad thing? I’d think owning as much of your minor league pipeline as possible would be a good thing. Unless there’s something I’m missing?
@DirtyWater04
Baseball’s biggest downfall is the lack of public accounting. I’m a Pirates fan and it hurts like hell that Nutting’s profits can’t be quantified.
But until Manfred and his cronies (including the MLBPA) arrive in the modern world – we’re stuck with online rumoured theories of why our respective teams aren’t able to spend what we think they should.
DirtyWater – they DID do a deal, actually a couple since then, it just wasn’t through a SPAC entity and followed a more traditional private equity model.
A subgroup called Redbird Capital actually closed a deal, thats where LeBron entered the picture, he was part of that group, roughly 3 months after RedBall fell apart, but, in time to meet the funding for the Penguins purchase.
Finance types having the sense of humor many do, I wonder if the ‘bird’ portion of the altered name was in fact a clever hint at it being a fundraising round for the Penguins, which, time has shown it was.
I think Theo’s ascension is related to HIS sports venture capital firm buying into FSG. Why? Because it hadn’t previously been reported that Arctos where he’s head of had bought into FSG… and yet, if you go to the arctos website, prominently among the brands invested in are all the top FSG properties – Liverpool, Boston, Pittsburgh…. so, my thinking is with all the FSG money headed to PGA Tour Enterprises that Arctos took a stake in FSG, and, the cost to that for Henry was Theo getting a piece of the pie. Otherwise, it would’ve been fairly big news, Theo Epstein’s venture group buying into FSG?
We probably would’ve heard more about it had it happened a long time ago.
Terrier – Marge Schott was a big supporter of the secrecy of the financials of small market teams. Wealthy, but not too wealthy, baseball owners live in a higher risk world than the Billionaires. If Cincy had a bad year it was far more significant to the owner than if NYY had one. In one case, the team earns less profits, in the other case the owner needs to seek further funding. Pittsburgh like all the teams in baseball doesn’t disclose anything beyond the baseball operations profits. Just like Red Sox fans ask where the $300MM of profits are going each year, Pirate fans are equally frustrated by not knowing why the team can’t be better funded to compete more evenly with the other bigger market teams.
The books are all undisclosed so the amount of true profits is not known for any club. The sources of all revenues are not known to the public. The playing field remains slanted in favor of the clubs that are willing to spend larger money than the small market teams. It doesn’t guarantee winning by spending more but it does give fans the perception of trying harder which is all we can hope for. Yep, it basically sucks. I completely agree with you.
GASox – You and I both clearly see Henry as not being all that interested in the Red Sox, same with Werner, but it’s amazing how some others don’t. All you need to do is put yourself in his shoes.
1) He made his fortune as a commodities trader
2) He’s a South Florida guy with no prior ties to the Boston area
3) He’s already got 8 WS Championship rings
As long as the team continues to make $80M+ profits every year, he couldn’t care less if they finish last every year. Anybody who thinks he loses sleep when the Sox lose are delusional.
Larry Lucchino was the owner who wanted the Sox to win every year, he is the one who convinced Henry to spend from 2004-2013. The sooner people realize Henry doesn’t give a damn about winning or the fans, the better.
I feel bad for Lucchino, and, was hoping, HOPING he would take a stronger hand on the mlb team again after being forced out as controlling owner of the woosox.
FSG banded together with 10 other minority owners to sell out to diamond from beneath hin, amd, he was forced into minority owner status from majority owner. Now he can do nothing but sit and watch. Ismt that a kick in the nuts to the guy.
GASox – Agreed! But I never expected a return to the Red Sox front office. He’s 78 now and been through a lot with his cancer battles. Would be great if he’s another adviser like Theo, talk about getting the team back together again!
Terrier – The Pirates have been my favorite NL team since the 70’s when I fell in love with the city.
I can understand your frustration at knowing the Pirates made a $54.5M profit in 2022 instead of spending some of that excess money on payroll. There’s no excuse for revenue sharing recipients such as the Pirates, Athletics, Mariners and Orioles to make such a huge profit with such small payrolls.
GASox – I have a better explanation for the “RedBird” name.
The founder is Gerry Cardinale.
And John Henry always has held one MLB team close to his heart …. the Cardinals.
Unfortunately, the excuse is in the closed book accounting system that’s unheard of in pretty much every other sports league in the world. You have to wait a while in Europe for the returns to become public property, but MLB’s system is archaic and IMO detrimental to us as paying customers.
Where did you get the Pirates profit amount from?
Terrier – Every MLB team’s annual revenue, valuation and bottom line is out there …. Forbes, who along with the WSJ are incredibly reputable sources for all things financial.
I’m not sure how they pieced the bottom lines together. Payroll is obviously public knowledge, not sure if revenue is as well.
It usually comes out around March, so still another 6 weeks or so before 2023 is published.
‘some soccer team in England’….
Is that the one that grosses more income than the Red Sox in half as many games every year?
It might be – don’t know and don’t care. Soccer sucks and it’s not what I’m here to talk about.
Dirty – I have a great soccer anecdote!!!
In HS I played for a hard core baseball guy who meticulously groomed the field daily. One day a woman drove up to the field and asked him where they play soccer and without looking up he said “Europe” and kept raking the infield!!!
I’ve never considered soccer a sport!!! It’s an excuse for Europeans to drink beer!! hahaha
Europeans need an excuse to drink beer?
best signing of the off season
agreed- but can he pitch?
The question is, is this just a glorified feel good role or will he have ANY say to get this team to improve the team.
First job, dump Dave O’Brien.
Huh?
Couldn’t agree more. He can’t get the runners on base right. Sometimes who’s at bat . Take Don back in a heart beat
O’Brien speaks the company line. With mlb tv you can see/hear other team broadcasts. O’Brien reads the stats. The color guys who played the game add but you can hear the tension if they go too
Far off script. O’Brien is probably cheap contract wise…..
Nothing against o Brien but Don could announce a snail’s race and make it exciting!!!
Don and Jerry were the best but Dave, Jerry and Eck were a close second. At least when they team sucked to watch, they were still a joy to listen to.
Wow
Thanks for the stupid pitch clock. Hope he implements some more stupid rules for the Red Sox.
Stupid rule? Are you insane? That was fantastic York. Look, it’s not really the reduction in total game times that I like. It’s that we need more action. Not just for the youngsters but to get baseball a bit closer to where it used to be, having the ball in play more often.
Some fans can be upset all they want with the pitch clock, but both objective and anecdotal reviews suggests it was a great success.
Pitch clock is fine but the pick off rule, pizza box bases and oven mitts need to go.
LordDog – ANYONE who wants the games to be shorter is not a baseball fan. They are a baseball enthusiast. Kinda like the thousands that show up to the Kenturcky Derby and have no clue about horses!!
Putting baseball on a clock is like putting a painter on a clock. Your end result will never be as excellent as it is without the clock.
Troll on this we can agree
dewey – Wait a minute, how is it possible none of you have mentioned the worst MLB rule change in more than a century …. the Ghost Runner!!!
@rememberthecoop
Look at the data from season by season and you’ll see that not much has really changed.
Years with the same OBP as 2023:
1989
1981
1976
1969
Years with worse OBP than 2023:
2012
2018
2013
1988
1915
1910
2021
2015
1971
1918
1903
1892
2014
1964
2022
1916
1871
1972
1965
1917
1966
1963
1905
1967
1909
1906
1907
1873
1886
1904
1968
1908
1872
1888
1881
1877
1885
1883
1874
1884
1878
1876
1882
1879
1880
1875
Years with a better OBP than 2023:
1894 – 0.379
1895
1893
1897
1896
1929
1930
1925
1936
1922
1923
1926
1950
1999
2000
1921
1927
1949
1924
1899
1935
1937
1928
1939
1938
1934
1996
1948
1900
1931
1994
1995
2006
1912
1997
1947
1890
2007
1911
1953
1951
1940
2004
1998
1932
1898
1889
1920
2008
2003
2009
1954
1887
1993
2001
1941
1955
1987
2002
1956
1891
1933
1979
2005
1977
1945
1946
1961
1901
1975
1952
1980
1944
1986
1962
1970
1983
1913
1990
1958
2010
1973
1982
1957
1974
1959
1943
2017
1960
1984
1978
1985
1991
2019
1902
1919
1992
2016
1942
2020
2011
1914
Are you suggesting that we return to the days of the 1800s, 1970s or even 2015 when baseball was played with less players on base?
Years with the same BA as 2023:
1969
2018
1916
1905
1882
Years with worse BA than 2023:
1906
1904
1965
1963
1886
2020
1892
1907
1880
2021
1972
1909
1885
2022
1884
1967
1908
1888
1968
Years with a better BA than 2023:
1894 – 0.309
1895
1897
1930
1896
1873
1929
1925
1871
1922
1921
1872
1936
1923
1924
1927
1899
1928
1893
1926
1935
1900
1934
1937
1931
1932
1939
1938
1920
1874
1901
1999
1898
1887
1877
2000
1996
1994
1933
2006
1912
2007
1995
1997
1940
1902
1950
1911
2004
1998
1993
1979
1980
1876
1948
1953
1889
2008
2003
2001
2005
1977
1949
1987
1919
1947
2009
1941
1944
1903
1951
1954
2002
1945
1983
1982
1890
1984
1881
1955
1913
1878
1956
1961
1975
1986
1962
1990
1958
1957
1978
1946
2010
1973
1974
1959
1985
1883
1943
1991
1992
1981
2017
1960
2016
2011
1976
2012
1879
1891
1970
1914
1989
1988
2015
1918
1875
1952
1942
2013
2019
2014
1915
1964
1910
1971
1917
1966
I guess, we should return to the 1894s style of game as they had a much better BA and OBP than today’s game with the horrible rule changes. I’d rather more action like in 1894 than the rules that don’t actually make more action based on the data.
York very few here will bother looking at that data
for good reason.
@Poolhalljunkies
Very few here have any clue about baseball in general. They just want to read about all the juicy rumors and find out if Juan Soto or Ohtani are signing $1T contracts. They’ll be back to checking their FB status.
OY
Imagine writing all that just to troll, troll, troll, troll, troll
Or, maybe, you’re that unintelligent/uninformed
Phj
“York very few here will bother looking at that data”
There’s no reason to look at that data
This is what happens when you stop understanding science in middle school
Too many variables are different between the 1880’s and now to compare the pitch clock and OBP
Old York, congratulations on a job…done
LOL…. I saw that Post and the STYX song “Too Much Time On My Hands” kept running through my thoughts…. now I can’t get the song out of my head.
@filihok
I’m glad you’re back to your job as troll. How much do you get paid?
I guess you missed the fact that there are a variety of years better and worse than 2023, but don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative. Hilarious! Tell us how much you want less offense in the game without telling us so…
You’re cherry-picking stats here York. And no, not looking to go back to the 1800s,come-on man. For one thing, pitchers throw way too hard now for balls to ever be put in play to that extent. But just more action in general. Maybe you enjoy watching grown men walking around,,scratching and spitting…but I prefer ‘hey let’s pick up the ball and throw it and have the batters get back in the damn box and play the game’.
@Cooperdooper7
Another baseball fan that doesn’t like facts.
You mean “zero”
Thumbs up simply for the level of data founded detail/research that you committed to making your point.
I don’t agree with you, the pitch clock concept is fine. It cld be improved, the batter clock for 8 seconds is dumb, but the cadence of the game can be anticipated better. I think that will be more comfortable for people who aren’t hardcore baseball junkies/trying to get into the game.
I don’t agree with his stance on the pitch clock but that data isn’t trash. If anything you help his point by saying that there all the different variables from the different eras, yet the OBP is close.
OY
“I guess you missed the fact that there are a variety of years better and worse than 2023,”.
Didn’t miss it
I’m just smart (and educated) enough to know that that doesn’t show anything.
I know it’s asking way too much of someone who couldn’t make a passing middle school science fair exhibit, but could you, explain, in detail, what you think you have shown and how you have shown it
While you’re at it, still waiting for you to accept or decline the bet about Chapman playing in the majors this year. Or, you’re too much of a coward to put up? And too much of a troll to shut up?
@filihok
It just shows you don’t understand basic data. That’s not something to be ashamed of, as many baseball fans struggle with knowing the difference between a Ball and a Strike.
When you’re ready for an adult conversation, I’m here for you but from what I’ve seen of you, you still don’t want to have that discussion and even struggle with middle-school economic theory.
Old York – Your response is COMPLETELY out of context.
Do you have any clue as to why offensive numbers go up and down so radically? It’s not launch angle, exit velocity, bat composition, the shape of the players,steroids or any other outside factor, it’s all about the baseball.
Why is the game filled with so much offense these days?
Since 1871 the HRs/Game/Year have been recorded and they show the many changes to the baseball. The dead ball, era, the post dead ball era, the post WWII era, the second dead ball era, the mistake in 1987 when a new juiced ball was accidentally introduced, the return to the pre-1987 ball, the Selig decision to go back to the 1987 ball after the strike to add excitement to the game, the third deadening of the ball in 2010 and then the current massive jump in juice beginning in 2015.
Did you know the ball was less juiced in 2014 than in 1961? That led to someone contracting a new ball in 2015 that raised the juice level from 0.86 to 1.01. Here are the numbers since:
2016 – 1.16
2017 – 1.26
2018 – 1.15
2019 – 1.39 ****** all time high
2020 – 1.28
2021 – 1.22
2022 – 1.07
2023 – 1.21
To put these numbers into perspective –
Bonds launched 73 HRs in 2001 with the number at 1.12
Maris launched 61 HRs in 1961 with the number at 0.95
Ruth launched 60 HRs in 1927 with the number at 0.37
FYI The top 5 juice factors are:
2019 – 1.39
2020 – 1.28
2017 – 1.26
2021 – 1.22
2023 – 1.21
The top one from the Bonds/McGwire era is 2000 – 1.17 and is the sixth highest ever. SEVEN of the top 10 juice factors have happened in the 8 years since the ball significantly changed.
Want to explain jumps in HRs or hitting in general, look at the juice. The baseball drives the offense that exists in any given year. Over 140 years of proof can’t be wrong.
Old York – Your data is thorough and I applaud that but I am not seeing the causal relationship. I track the juice in the ball and explain why homer jump during specific time periods. OBP is a derivative of Batting Average and Walk Rate.
Showing both OBP and BA is a bit redundant. If you had shown BA and Walk Rate you could argue that batting averages are up and walk rate has remained fairly constant over time. If both OBP and BA have similar patterns it’s the fact that OBP is a derivative of BA.
I made a point elsewhere showing that the baseball juice has a lot to do with HRs per year and it would stand to reason that a more juiced ball with respond off the bat faster than a lesser juiced ball on average so exit velocity should be greater with the juiced ball which likely will create more hits and higher Batting Average and OBP.
The hardest part about all of this is documenting the causal relationship that explains the data. Even with juice, there are still many, many other factors to consider. The reason juice is so compelling is the pattern of HRs bouncing up and down during the 10 years in a decade but the other factors staying for the most part the same. Same number of teams, games, ball parks. The weather does vary so that can impact the results to some degree. You neglected to account for those other factors in your discussion.
I believe your premise is correct but I would argue the juice in the baseball far exceeds the new rules when it comes to impact on the game.
OU
I literally asked you to explain to me that you think your numbers for
But like tooth your idiot claim about Chapman, your refuse to provide anything of substance.
So, you can agree to the bet
Or you been put up here
Or you can shut up
But we both know you’ll do none of the above, because you’re just a troll.
What a moronic list of numbers. Dude get a friend or a partner or an inflatable pet
Coop – Funny, when I saw the post it was Floyd’s “The Wall” that came to mind.
It seemed like a wall as I kept scrolling down trying to get past it. Haha!
I know! Because of that stupid pitch clock I am no longer treated to endless at bats where the batter takes a walk and adjusts every accessory strapped to his body between pitches, and pitchers stare off into space as though they are pondering the mystery of creation before throwing to first to keep a runner who hasn’t attempted a steal in 3 years close. God how I miss that.
@JPR
As I said, these rule changes haven’t improved the action in the games given that previous years had much better offensive seasons than 2023. So, you’re treating the pitch clock like a savior when it’s just a finger bandage on an open chest wound. What a joke…
“these rule changes haven’t improved the action in the games “”
I don’t think they were meant to. The fans were just getting tired of 3 hour and 30-minute games several times a week.
Mike Hargrove, aka “The Human Rain Delay,” does NOT approve this message. lol
It’s always nice to come across other fans that also found Nomar’s routine to be incredibly frustrating, not fun and entertaining
JPR – Rather than putting the game on a clock suggesting issues with the amount of time it takes to play a game, why not simply have the umpires limit the between pitch activities? If you hate watching Papi slaps his hands together or Mookie and many players tighten their gloves, just limit the activity so it’s reasonable.
Having a short attention span is a generational problem. The attendance at a game historically was to gather at an event, enjoy the company of others while the game proceeds and then revel in the outcome or possibly curse. It was an event not a race that needs to be completed as soon as possible. Casual fans and hard core fans vary in their view and unfortunately greedy owners and commissioners prefer to cater to the ignorant casual fan because those people have the growth potential the industry is counting on.
All sports have shifted from being an event to a race to capture leisure spending by the public. Boxing matches have under cards, the Kentucky Derby has featured events on the card, the playoffs continue to grow in number of games and teams playing in them so that at some point nobody will not make the playoffs.
Sports greed is rampant in 2024. I’m sure people like you wish the baseball stadium could put up 50 screens around the stadium so you could watch other games like in a sports bar. After all, it’s not really the game you care about, it’s the results. The games is simply a necessary evil to get to the results. Why 9 innings? Couldn’t we make it 3 so I can cash in my bet sooner?
For the diehard fan, it will always be an event that shouldn’t be rushed and the quirky habits of the players can be limited if they get excessive but often times they have been done for luck so why take that away from the player so you can get home sooner?
@Trollfree
Well said!
I will respond to others later, when I have more time.
TF – I feel fantasy leagues and increased betting are ruining sports.
As you say, I’m an old school baseball fan. I enjoyed watching pitchers need to hit, watching double switches and lineup cards with 12 changes in a game. The longer the baseball game, the better. More time between batters was FINE. It was time to chat with fans around you, or just lean back, look up at the sky, amd drink in the sights, sounds, and smells of the ballpark. Good weather, OR bad, nothing beats time in a ballpark.
I *think* it was the 2008 or so futures at fenway game when both ends of the double header went into extra innings, and, it was my first time in monster seats, although not for an mlb game. And I couldn’t have been happier. I feel like we spent 8 hours at the ballpark that day.
These days people want to see the end score as fast as possible. It’s kind of the old route 66 vs interstate problem… the drive used to be part of the experience, now it’s just a hassle to get over with.
Well, today people just want to know, did I win? Did my bet come through? How many points did my player earn in my league? It’s not about the game, or enjoying the game as the experience
TF- Agree on the enjoying the nuances of the game, but the pitch clock isn’t about getting rid of those. Its pace, anticipation, game rhythm. The pitch is the initiating point of exchange in the action. A play clock for the snap in football, a shot clock in basketball. The smaller supplemental regulation isn’t needed.
Get rid of the hitter clock and the pick off limit, and allow the shift. That puts player tact, skill, and manager strategy, but with the pitch clock it also shows how sharp/quick/knowledgable people are in regards to their role…. I.e. Cora not being able to pull strings in the moment, but instead going into games ready to default pull every starter after 5 innings.
I consider reactions to the pitch clock to be a good litmus test for stubbornness and being reasonable. Any downsides from it were minimal compared to the gains, and the fact of the matter is that it imposed a return to a similar pace of play as used to organically be the case. Some called it a change as if it were something we’d never seen before, but that isn’t accurate given that baseball used to be played that way – we could go back and see that the game itself worked just as well at that pace, and covered stronger and weaker offensive eras.
At this point, with the results in hand, firm objections to the pitch clock mean holding on to the past simply on principle. That’s not a good thing.
@redsoxu571
Tell us you want less action without telling us you want less action. Confirmed, another supporter of less action in baseball. Interesting take.
Agree completely. The average time of game in the high-offense 1920s was around two hours, pretty much the same as in the very low-offense deadball era that preceded the Roaring Twenties. Sure, there wasn’t all that commercial time between innings.
All the pitch clock has done is create a pace of play similar to those times (again allowing for all the commercials nowadays). Which is hardly a catastrophic change.
Casey – Spoken by a fly by night fan. It’s an event not something for you to do because you have some spare time.
redsoxu571 – What a bunch of foolhardy comments!!!
As old as you are you should realize that game is still the game and the issue isn’t the time as much as the behavior that has changed on the field.
The “Me” generation needs to do everything possible to bring all attention on them during a game. Their self aggrandizing actions have been thrust into the game by guys like Harper and his let the kids play BS. The proliferation of power within the foreign players has also created problems. The umpires are there to control the game so excessive actions can be limited by the officials like in most sports and then there is no need for a CLOCK constraint to help fair weather fans get home in time to spend their recreational money elsewhere.
The fix is simple. Tell the guys like Harper who want to let the kids play that it’s costing the industry a ton of money. Their antics are lengthening the game. Tell the bat flippers to not bat flip. Tell the guys like Devers that he can’t have a conversation with himself between every pitch. It’s the MLB trying to be more like other 3rd world countries when it comes to their behavior at a baseball game.
If people on other continents like jumping up and down and chanting things throughout their sporting events that doesn’t mean BASEBALL needs to be like that for it to be popular.
The game has never been perfect but I’ll take the mutual respect approach to the game from 50 years ago over the let the kids play behavior. Being flamboyant in sports used to be frowned upon as unsportsmanlike. Somewhere along the line, sportsmanship stopped so players from other countries could behave like they do back home. The problem is baseball is an American sport and should reflect American society like it did for nearly 100 years. How does a parent teach their kid about sportsmanship when none of the major sports emphasize it?
Baseball is going in the wrong direction and the older the traditional fans get the less it will resemble baseball in the future. Let the umpires control the behavior not a clock. Don’t pursue the ignorant fans that need the game to be under 2 hours because they have better things to do. The game survived because the rules set parameters for the actions on the field and people grew up with those actions being a way of life.with respect to the sport.
Does baseball need to morph into a high action sport to be competitive for fan dollars? If so, maybe the commissioner should scrap the whole thing and start over to satisfy the limited attention spans of the current generation and the culturally different behavior of other countries that adopted the game from the US.
.
The time clock is pure ignorance. It moves the game along but it doesn’t address the real issues with the game. Sportsmanship, humility and fair competition no longer matter. Nobody better exemplifies that than Cora, Hinch and Beltran. The direction of baseball is spiraling downward while the greed for money grows.
I’m glad you can get home from games quicker but you certainly don’t sound like much of an old time baseball fan that goes to the games as an event not a time filler.
Hopefully he’ll show Breslow how to grow some balls perhaps
Why what should breslow of done ? Sign Ohtani for 700 million or a japanese pitcher for 300 million who never pitched in us. Please. U people want instant gratification all the time or ur a yankee troll
Idk maybe add a few starters to a rotation that clearly needed 2 starters going into the off-season. He’s added 1 and traded 1 making it a net gain of 0 starters added really. Still need 2 more starting pitchers and pitchers and catchers report in less than 2 weeks lol
Think “extracting value”.
Get FSG to either dump FC Liverpool or stop trying to give Mbappe $1 billion. We, in Red Sox Nation, could not give two f***s about soccer. Preferably the former.
Or reinstate Teddy Roosevelt’s antitrust laws so that one group doesn’t own 8 different sports teams.
Or let Henry make FSG a publicly traded company so pissed-off Red Sox fans can institute a Hostile Takeover
Liverpool FC – you should know the name if you’re that angry about them!
Why it’s soccer who the hell cares.
Most of the world… lol.
European money is in soccer, same with Arab. Henry is just trying to diverse his portfolio. The problem is, he doesn’t have the capital to properly manage the Red Sox, Liverpool FC, and the Pittsburgh Penguins. He bought too much and now his original purchase, the Red Sox, suffers because of it. Liverpool FC generated the 3rd most revenue in the world for a soccer club at £702 million, and yet he’s cutting the Red Sox budget? We are missing something….
Not this part!!!!
What you’re missing is that soccer ‘clubs’ throughout the world have never ever made a profit whereas the sole purpose of US sports has always been to cross the owners’ palm with the Yankee dollar.
That’s why UK fans hate American owners and North American sports fans are obviously now pissed off with the world of soccer fandom as their teams are starting to fund the endless money pit that is ownership of a football club in Europe.
Nobody asked the Glaziers/Henrys/Lerners/Boehlys to get involved…. the Russians, Orientals and Arabs were more than happy to buy status without asking for a profit.
You have a screw loose if you don’t think soccer owners are making money lol
45
Real Madrid have been named as the highest revenue-generating football club in the world for the 2022-23 season by Deloitte’s Sports Business Group, replacing Manchester City at the top of the list.
The Deloitte Football Money League is in its 27th year of analysing the highest revenue-generating football clubs globally, and reported that those clubs earned a record €10.5 billion ($11.4bn) in the 2022-23 season, a 14% increase on the previous year.
– Stream on ESPN+: LaLiga, Bundesliga, more (U.S.)
Madrid were last at the top of the index five years ago, and reported a record figure of €831 million for last season’s period, €118m more than the year before.
City earned €5m fewer than Madrid in second, with the top five filled out by Paris Saint-Germain (€802m), Barcelona (€800m), and Manchester United (€746m).
PSG and Barça’s ascension into the top five shows European clubs “regaining ground” on the Premier League, according to Deloitte, though Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham are all in the top 10.
Liverpool were the list’s biggest fallers, going from third to seventh, owing to a downturn in results in domestic and European competitions.
Newcastle and West Ham United are 17th and 18th respectively, ahead of reigning Serie A champions
So what’s your problem then?
Liverpool are a bigger club than the Red Sox – many more fans; larger financial turnover; wider appeal. If they’re making a profit for FSG then y’all should be delighted.
@ibuititnoonecame
Your link is in relation to soccer club gross revenue which is exactly my point.
They make more money than all but the biggest NFL franchises, but profits are traditionally negligible.
The Red Sox have so many layers of redundant titles running the team over the years that adding another seems like a natural progression. I heard the other day I was executive vice president of assistant general manager field systems coordinator for player development and ground maintenances for the Red Sox. I didn’t know what to do about it so I called up the team, and they didn’t seem to have any records of it, but they asked if I knew any fringe platoon players they could sign. I said I knew plenty and they promoted me by adding Chief Of to my long title. My business card look very busy.
Have yet to figure out Sam Kennedy, just the check signer….
Maybe Epstein can remind John Henry that his fanbase a competitive team and should open up the pocketbook when the time is ripe… Hope this is good news for Red Sox fans!
Theo tanked the Cubs for years to build their World Series team. Maybe the Red Sox will do the same.
“Tanked the Cubs”…I’m not necessarily disagreeing but replacing older, expensive players out of their prime with younger, cheaper players in their prime is “common sense”, not “tanking” in my honest opinion. Losing games is a consequence of rebuilding and starting over with young, inexperienced players, but it’s not the goal.
I don’t disagree with you either, but I remember thinking the Cubs were tanking when they lost 101 games in 2012 and 96 games in 2013 right after Theo got there.
“I don’t disagree with you either”..I guess I just hate the word “tank”, because many people think and say teams are trying to lose, when actually they’re trying to get younger, leaner and better.
Let us be very clear here. The Cubs tanked. They tanked on purpose. It was the right move at the time. To say they didn’t tank is basically calling Theo an idiot. He was well aware of the situation with the Cubs. They were a financial mess of older declining players, and the farm system was empty. No help was coming, and they didn’t have space to patch work it.
He made the best possible decision for the franchise. He took a terrible team and kept them terrible with the added benefit of clearing payroll and filling the farm. A+
They lost 91 in 2011 so the tank was well underway. And he barely sold off anyone in 2012. As with many other teams,it was more that they simply stunk rather than they tanked.
Gotta get the top spot in the draft to get top-end talent. If ya got your eyes on a couple generational prospects then ya got to position the team in a spot to get them.
suit – Geez, you always try to make excuses for the Red Sox front office.
FACT: In 2011 (the year before Theo arrived), the Cubs lost 91 games. So Theo didn’t “tank”, the Cubs were already a horrible team.
Joe – Well said!
And let’s evaluate Theo’s signings those first few years with the Cubs ….
In 2012 he gave Edwin Jackson a $52M contract that turned into a major blunder.
In 2019 he gave Kimbrel a $43M contract that turned into a major blunder.
In 2018 he gave Darvish a $126M contract that turned into a major blunder.
In 2017 he gave Smyly a $10M contract that turned into a major blunder.
In 2017 he gave Morrow a $21M contract that turned into a major blunder.
In 2017 he gave Chatwood a $38M contract that turned into a major blunder.
In 2015 he gave Heyward a $184M contract that turned into a major blunder.
Anybody who thinks Theo was a top GM clearly has cognitive issues.
Fever: OK. So, Theo kept the Cubs in a horrible state so they could lose 101 and 96 games. I would say that is tanking. I am not making any excuses for the Red Sox. I am not even reaching any conclusions. I don’t really know the Red Sox plans. I am saying Theo tanked before and he may tank again. BTW, I often push back against the horrible negativity which I think makes no sense. The Red Sox are in an OK state, not some horrible state. They have an improving farm system and financial flexibility unlike the Yankees who are heading in the opposite direction.
suit – Sorry, but not spending big on free agents after a 91-loss season is not tanking.
Tanking is selling/trading good veteran players for prospects and lowering the payroll, that didn’t happen after Theo joined the Cubs.
The Red Sox have already essentially tanked the past 4 years by accumulating prospects and reducing payroll. Supposedly the farm system is now loaded with talent, so if anything ownership should be spending to supplement the current core of Casas/Duran/Rafaela/Devers/Bello/Houck/Whitlock etc.
BTW – Acknowledging and reacting to reality is not negativity.
The Red Sox have treated the fanbase horribly the past few years. After last place finishes in 3 of the past 4 years, and sending off the team’s most talented and popular players, they promised they would try to compete again … and then after the season ticket deadline, they admitted they lied and admitted Fenway Park is the crown jewel to them, not the actual team.
Fans and media have every right to rip the Sox for behaving that way.
So you’re admitting the Red Sox have financial flexibility but simply choose to not spend, that’s a step in the right direction for you. This notion that the Sox aren’t signing free agents because they can’t “afford” them is total crap.
Fever: To me tanking is fielding a team that will end up with one of the worst records in baseball – however you do that – so you get a very high draft pick. That is what the Cubs did. Theo got Bryant and Schwarber at the top of drafts after tanking.
The Red Sox have kind of half tanked the last 4 years in my opinion. Signing Yoshida, Martin and Jansen – spending money on good free agents – means it is not a full tank in my opinion. They could have been worse to get higher draft picks.
Acknowledging reality and reacting to it is not negatively, but you, for example, are on here saying that Henry has “destroyed” the Red Sox. I disagree with that so I point out to people saying such things why I don’t think it is true.
I think the Red Sox are switching directions in how they field a team. I think they want to develop players more than sign free agents. It may be a long-term process to switch over, but it may be worth the wait. I think they want to be more like the Rays but even better than the Rays by significantly outspending them. That is my guess as to what John Henry is doing. I don’t mind waiting as long as I see a plan and I think I do. To me, the Red Sox are heading in the right direction if they are improving the farm system and avoiding albatross free agent contracts (which I called financial flexibility above). There will always be hope as long as those two things are going on. This approach is working good for the Rays and O’s and it should work even better for the Red Sox because they can outspend them when needed. I think the Red Sox will avoid big free agent deals mostly until they are putting the finishing touches on a great team. They are not there now.
Fever: Also, if I am ever as unhappy with the Red Sox as you and others appear to be, I will not be here “ripping” them. I will simply not follow them closely and not be upset with them. I don’t think negativity is good for your health.
He tanked the Cubs because the farm system was in terrible shape after Jim Hendry mostly used youth players as trade chips.
The Red Sox are already 4+ years into their “tank” process.
Tank you very much
Kind of surprising, only because I thought Theo wanted to be on the ground floor of the next expansion team.
Maybe he will be. FSG can sell the Sox and “purchase” the new expansion team at the same time. Maybe a smaller market is more to their liking at this point in time.
I am on the ground floor, I sleep there on the ground no mattress
Noticed something weird in the quote from John Henry. “Theo brings invaluable assets that will drive us forward across our diverse enterprises, especially in our sporting operations across hockey, EPL football, and baseball.”
It’s interesting how baseball is mentioned last, almost like the Red Sox are an afterthought at Fenway Sports Group. I hope such neglect continues because I’m a diehard hater of the Red Sox and Yankees. When the two teams play each other, I root for them both to lose by ten runs.
Even more to the point, since when does Theo Epstein have any expertise in hockey, soccer, golf or any other sport besides baseball? Is he really going to be advising John Henry and friends on what to do with the Penguins or Liverpool FC or the PGA? I assume that he’ll be pretty much limited to input on the Red Sox and maybe their NESN broadcasts. But who knows? Theo may be branching out.
Good to have Theo back in the mix.
Nice to be back. What I miss
Welcome back theo!!!!!
Thank you thank me
He’ll serve as a “sounding board” which means what? Breslow can pull him aside and whisper “help me get more pitching!”
Frankly, this looks like more of a p.r. move than any real change. “Hey, Sox fans, we’ve finished last for two years now, but Theo is back! Happy days are here again!”
And as the linked story points out, they’re talking about Theo actually getting involved in hockey, soccer, golf and who knows what else at Fenway Sports Group. Is he really going to be doing much with the Red Sox at all?
I believe he will be the next commissioner in 2029 when Manfred’s contract is up.
I believe I will
The Bobs to Craig Breslow after this news:
“So what would you say you do here?”
Theo Epstein: For me, it’s perfect, I was looking for a pathway into ownership.”
That ownership path will lead to Theo’s ultimate gig as future MLB Commissioner.
Theo may waiting a while for the commish job. Manfred just got baseball attendance back up over 70 million for the first time in a while. That tends to buy a lot of goodwill from the owners.
I do think that Theo is a future Hall of Famer. He’s got a sterling track record as a baseball exec. The plaque is on the way one of these years, after Theo retires completely from the sport.
Casey – I’d say Manfred is definitely better than Selig, but still he’s made his share of blunders … such as the Atlanta All-Star Game fiasco.
Does it really make a difference? We still don’t have a team that dances compete. And I haven’t seen any indication that there will be.
his presence will make Breslow’s tenure more on solid ground. John Henry ain’t gettin any younger. Could this be the first move to cash out and allow Theo time to amass a group of investors to eventually purchase the club?
This would be absolutely sublime
Let’s go Pens.
Step 1: find wallet
Step 2: use wallet on pitching
Hard left hard left captain!!!
Im feeling a full sale of the club coming soon.
Highly doubtful
Sure wish he was a consultant to the Detroit Tigers and could make suggestions on improving Comerica Park. The seats are furthest away from the field of any park, stripping fans of a better baseball experience.
Maybe I’m too cynical, but I’m waiting for Fenway Sports Group to buy a franchise in the Indian Premiere League. They play Twenty20 cricket, which would be appropriate for FSG because the whole idea of Twenty20 was to create a form of cricket that only lasts about as long as a baseball game.
Of course, cricket purists would howl about those clueless Yanks at FSG barging into their beloved sport. But cricket purists howl about Twenty20 in general. Maybe Theo can start watching some Twenty20 games on TV and give John Henry and friends some ideas. Hey, he probably knows as much about cricket as he does about soccer.
As someone who grew up with cricket then discovered baseball, I can guarantee that MLB has a far superior product than anything the IPL can offer.
Cricket is best enjoyed in its purist form over five days with no time limit and a very reasonable chance of a draw.
His role will be to hold a mirror under Henry’s nose and to periodically jab him with a stick
Poke
Leave it to Red Sox fans to be cynical about this. RSN has turned into the land of entitlement, the sobbing pessimist, and the snarky internet pup.
Woof.
They turned into exactly what they hated Yankee fans for back when George was still alive. The evil empire days….
king – They hated George for buying nearly every star player.
Whyhayzee – What’s wrong with you? The team went from a 120 win team if you count the game Cora blew to a AAA team in four years. Entitlement? You’re either an ignorant young person who is clueless when it comes to what it takes to wait 86 years for a win or a Yankee fan. Both are equally ignorant.
RSN should be up in arms and taking this straight to the castle gates with torches and ropes. There is no excuse for what has happened since DD got fired. It’s pathetic and was completely avoidable.
Sell the damn team so our 4 wins in the last 20 years (which also happens to be 4 wins in the last 80 years) can grow to 5!!! I’m sure that’s got to be embarrassing to Yankee fans. Right Whyhayzee you >>>>>>>!!!
Great to see. It won’t do anything unless he can up the budget, but still an excellent baseball mind.
He rode the coattails of his predecessor, Epstein had nothing to do with that championship. He has contributed nothing of real value in sports or anywhere else.
Tell that to my buddies who are Cubs fans!!!
This is completely false. He brought in schilling, Ortiz, Millar, Mueller etc.
The fact is that theo epstein has contributed nothing of real value in life, he’s nothing.
Tang – Pedro brought in Ortiz, not Theo.
If not for Pedro, the 2003 Sox would have had first base covered with Giambi/Hillenbrand/Millar.
Neither here nor there. The point is it wasn’t the prior regime.
Smartest man to come out of Yale since Blue Baron and Mr Burns!!!
RED SOX NATION IS IN FULL BOYCOTT MODE THEO…
Until we sign 2 legit Aces
It will continue…
No Spending from US for last place embarrassing competitors in the front office/ownership
That’s just how it’s going to be until they spend on those who built The Redsox…US!
Dear Theo… I have to somewhat agree with guru.. unless you can advise to bring in a player who you might not know about.. he’s a fan favorite/ dominant closer/ and nice man… ..RB.. ( no not Rick Burelson)
Itching to see Richard Bleier back with the sox eh?
Great job gas!!! What a duo!!!
GASox – See what I mean? You are totally on top of your game, nice one!!
I spent a minute trying to come up with someone that had the same initials, and all I could think of was Arby’s.
I understand the frustration but the park will be full unfortunately
Babe – If so, it will be at drastically reduced ticket prices.
Epstein quit on the Red Sox twice. He’s the Bill Parcells of front office baseball.
He’s fat?
Growing up I was Big boned….
Insane – I’d like to think he’s matured since then ….
Only matters if they start to try to be competive again. Now today not in year or two today. Otherwise Boycott until we can owners who own adjust the baseball team to dedicate time and resources to juts baseball.
Hopefully he can senior advise Cora out
Theo’s 50 years old? Seems like when the Sox won their first WS 20 years ago he was only 30. Time sure flies.
If anybody can convince Henry he needs a mix of prospects and top-end free agents it’s Theo. Also, it was Theo that got Breslow started in management in Chicago, if Breslow is going to take advice from anybody you’d think it would be his baseball mentor. Henry has always been jealous of what they do in Tampa, but even there they have begun to spend some money. Henry might point to recent success of Washington and Arizona but it isn’t perennial success. If you want a shot at the title perennially you need a mix of prospects and stars. Theo ended 2 curses, hopefully he can get Henry to see the light.
I’m feeling John Henry gonna sell the team soon.
ayy – Unfortunately, not a chance.
Eh, this just seems like window dressing based on his job summary. Don’t see the situation really changing with Boston and their current low-spending ways.
All so happy. You think he can be a gm without a huge bankroll? Good luck.
Hope I am wrong but I don’t see this changing nothing
So you do see it changing something
Um no read the post
as a yankee fan who respects the rivalry i hate that the sox are now little more than a revenue stream for a gigantic conglomerate with multiple interests. theo coming on board (whatever the real, non-baseball reason) could be a positive because he at least seems to have an emotional connection to the team, but with so many investors/share holders looking to maximize profits he will likely be a voice in the wilderness
Hey Theo you have to pay the Massachusetts millionaire tax – enjoy the sting.
Welcome home Theo(den) King!
Shift in power or meaningless add? So hard to tell.
We can all hope that it’s a shift in power that will allow Breslow to do the things he needs to do to fix the Red Sox. Fire Cora and move Devers are still top of the list. But with an organization as big as FSG who knows?
The skeptic in me says it’s just another marketing stunt to get fans to back off because they believe in Theo. We’ll see. If Breslow now has greater authority to do what’s necessary and he actually does it, that’s great. If he now is going to sit stagnant like he has for months then the add of Theo is meaningless and Theo’s words were just political glad handing.
Time will tell. The clock is ticking. 2024 is wasting away. Someone needs to recognize the issues and fix them. If not, fans will be at everyone’s throats the entire summer.
Theo was actually aiming for president at Harvard but they found him too leftist.
This is very good news. He won’t allow us to be a losing team for long.
I’m back!!! Mwahaha
Dumpster – I’ve been meaning to ask, where did you get the idea for your handle? I’m no Theo worshiper, but I don’t recall him doing much dumpster diving. Certainly not nearly as much as Bloom.
All GM’s dumpster dive. The difference is whether you are doing it for depth, catch lightning in a bottle, or to fill out a 25 man at the MLB level. Each level of the farm needs to fill out a roster, specifically filling out depth at positions. The vast majority of these moves are supposed to be meant to fill out those rosters, and once every few years find a hidden jewel.
When the Red Sox started doing this to find MLB second baseman and relievers I knew we were in huge trouble.