Jazz Chisholm Jr. is one of the more interesting position players who is likely to move by the end of the month. The Yankees, Royals and Mariners have all been linked to Miami’s center fielder/second baseman. The Pirates have also been loosely floated as a potential Chisholm fit.
Craig Mish of the Miami Herald and SportsGrid appeared on 93.7 The Fan this afternoon (YouTube link, beginning around 9:27). Mish said that Pittsburgh and Miami have indeed discussed Chisholm, though he characterized those talks as “exploratory” in nature. According to Mish, a few teams other than Pittsburgh have expressed more serious interest to this point. While there’s clearly nothing imminent, Chisholm is on Pittsburgh’s radar to some extent as the Bucs look to add offense.
Chisholm’s defensive flexibility makes him a viable target for a lot of teams. He has primarily played center field going back to the start of the 2023 season. Miami gave him a start at second base last weekend for the first time since 2022. Chisholm was back in center field for tonight’s series opener against the Mets.
The 26-year-old can fit on teams looking for help at either position. The Pirates haven’t gotten much production out of either center field or second base. Pittsburgh center fielders entered play tonight with a dismal .206/.267/.297 slash line that bests only the Cardinals’ offensive output. Michael A. Taylor remains an elite defender but he’s having the worst offensive season of his career, hitting .203/.258/.279 in 73 games.
Pittsburgh hasn’t been a whole lot better at second base. They’ve gotten a .253/.315/.349 performance out of the position. Nick Gonzales got out to an excellent start to the season upon being recalled in May. The former seventh overall pick has slumped to a .240/.269/.349 line in 156 plate appearances since the start of June. Gonzales hit a walk-off single tonight to complete an 8-7 comeback win over the Phillies, but he wasn’t performing well going into the All-Star Break.
Tonight’s victory pushed the Pirates above .500 at 49-48. They’re half a game back of the Mets and Diamondbacks, who are tied for the National League’s last Wild Card spot. Pittsburgh is in position to add at the deadline for the first time in years, although it’s unclear how willing GM Ben Cherington would be to subtract from the top of their farm system. As Darragh McDonald explored in a piece for Front Office subscribers on Wednesday, the Bucs have ample rotation depth. Miami isn’t going to look for immediate starting pitching in a Chisholm deal — Mish suggests the Marlins could target prospects who are two to three years from the big leagues — but the Bucs’ depth could free them to deal a pitching prospect or two for offense. Chisholm is hitting .251/.322/.407 and is under arbitration control through 2026.
Would be peak Pirates to deal a good prospect for Jazz
His power numbers are actually very good when you factor in how many games he plays per year.
His number are not that good, stop trying to put lipstick on this pig.
His numbers are good compared to Pirates center fielders. Definitely an upgrade.
and he’s injury prone, the last thing this team needs if they’re serious about contending
Small market teams are usually not scared of injury prone players because it keeps the cost of retaining them lower and then some of their younger players will still be called upon. If you’re a Pirates fan it’s really a win if you don’t give up much. There’s the if.
Exactly. No doubt he’d represent an upgrade on paper, in the short term, but at what cost?
Cherington wants to be contenders for a playoff berth, trading for an injury prone player doesn’t make sense, low payroll not withstanding
This fits… hoping it happens
If they were able to get Luzardo or Garret in the trade, I’d be willing to give up a good prospect or 2
His isolated power is the lowest it’s been in his career.
Pirates gonna offer Henry Davis and call it good
I’d trade Davis and two lesser prospects for Jazz and honestly keep Bart knowing that Endy is really our future catcher
Bart is under team control through 2027 so the Pirates really don’t need Davis. 1 for 1 I think is fair.
I am not sure Cherington would trade a player who he drafted as a #1 pick
I think people are selling too soon on Davis
College or not, he was brought up to the bigs in a hurry.
Look at Nick Gonzales, trading Davis early could could be disastrous down the road
The Pirates got lucky with Bart. Endy Rodriguez is still around. And Nick Gonzales is decent he’s nothing special. At some point you gotta make some risky moves.
I’ve never viewed Davis as a catcher, but can be a heck of a DH once Cutch retires (prob after this season)
Gonzales was used as an example because people were saying trade him for a paper bag in the offseason , now he’s a core player they’d be struggling without
Chisholm isn’t a paper bag. And I still wouldn’t call Gonzales a core piece. He’s a nice little player that’s about it.
As far as Davis being good to catch long term I really don’t know haven’t watched him enough.
Paper bag was in relation to a paper bag, not chisholm.
Never viewed Davis as a catcher, includes the day he was drafted
the Bucs have been making risky moves for years and haven’t accomplished anything as a result
This franchise can’t afford to make risky decisions if they want to be competitive in the years to come
Cutch said he wants to play next year and as long as he produces they will bring him back
Does anyone know why Triolo hasn’t played for the last 7 games? Not as a pinch hitter or runner or defensive replacement
Hard to believe that they are currently losing to a 26 year old pitcher in only his 3rd major league start and who’s given up 3 homers in those games
Gonzalez is the 2nd baseman of their future like him or not
Despite the power of Cruz’ bat, he does two other things that are questionable
He commits too many errors and swings at pitches nowhere near the plate
He now has 15 and 114 respectively
His dropped ball just cost us 3 runs
You need Davis in the event of an injury to either Bart or Endy unless you want Grandal again next year as the backup
The talk is getting Chisholm and you are talking about backup catcher. Come on dude.
I’d prefer Cutch retire after the season if he’s unable to play the field
Even this year, one could argue he’s blocked Davis from an extended look at DH
Davis is projected as a .300 25 HR peak potential,
Cutch is pretty mediocre at this point
I wouldn’t be worried about that , but I would be worried about giving up too soon on a guy who went 1st overall and has massive potential
Goku, I’m going to go out on a limb and say Davis will eventually be a good hitter. Just not in a Pirates uniform. It’s clear that no one here can refine his hitting. Suwinski may be in the same boat
As for Cutch, I disagree. As long as the guy is still productive, he should have a spot
First off, show some respect, I am not your “ dude “, secondly you offered your opinion of Davis in a previous post, and thirdly, there was “ talk” last week about interest in Taylor Ward.
Until a trade happens, it’s all just “ talk “
Cutch has more than twice as many homers than any other potential DH on this team and leads the team in drawing walks.
On the other hand, Davis, when he had a spot on the major league roster, had no homers and struck out more than he drew walks
If Davis proves he can hit major league pitching with consistency then he deserves to be DH
Right now he doesn’t
I guess my point is, how is Davis gonna prove that without major league ABs ?
Not like he’s struggling in the minors. He’s hitting pretty well down there
I’ll add to that, I’m very happy that Cutch is on the 2024 roster, just not so sure I want him on the 2025 roster
Endy hasn’t hit in MLB. The dude ended up getting season ending surgery trying to hit in the offseason. Trade him instead of Davis. Endy also sucks at framing.
Davis hasn’t exactly hit well either and is worse defensively at catcher
Endy Rodriguez is interesting I suppose but the Marlins need someone who can actually play catcher.
No one wants a player whose injured throwing arm required TJ surgery not knowing whether his arm strength will return to normal
Endy has only played in 57 majors league games, hardly enough time to determine whether he can hit at this level
And he didn’t get hurt in winter ball batting, he hurt his shoulder throwing
No he was hitting. cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/pittsburgh-pirates-end…
When I look at Davis’s minor league stats he doesn’t seem rushed at all. He played in over 120 minor league games and thumped all the way. Between the games, production and age and total experience, it seems reasonable. He got pounded in the majors but then went right back to thumping when he went down.
I’m not trying to say he’s a bust or anything. For my end I always argue for patience among the young talent. I’ll give any talented prospect a good three seasons worth of AB’s before I start getting to confident OR concerned unless his play is under mature in an extreme way. Having just a handful of at bats more than 350 he would be well within patience on my end.
Davis was rushed. His bat was ready but he couldn’t catch. Was awful. So bad they couldn’t play him at catcher. So they threw him in RF and he was awful. He hit solid enough for a rookie. To stay focused with how awful his defense was pretty impressive.
Working out with a non pirates training facility made him a awful mlb catcher. Tremendous improvement. If the bat was good enough you could play him there twice a week and dh him. He is a hard worker and has a cannon so maybe he can improve even more. Seems so. Maybe he could play rf with some training but he was a clown show out there. And never improved. You think ok then 1b? Can’t catch cant play rf so why would you think he could play 1b? Maybe but it isn’t automatic. I don’t know of the bat plays at 1b let alone dh. He almost has to catch.
He only has a trade value to a team that can improve him. If you don’t want him as a fan why would Miami or anyone else want him? He needs to be improved. It’s possible. Even think he will. Hard to see a all star though. I think he can be a above average catcher. If he gets to average it’s a huge win. Pittsburgh development failed him.
He wasn’t rushed for all the reasons I explained above. His defense was a known commodity which was why he was moved to right field where they could try to limit his damage. He was promoted for his bat as well. Just because he didn’t hit doesn’t mean they rushed him. How long and how much does he have to mash in the minors before they try him out? They had justifiable reason to give him a chance.
Maybe rushed isn’t the right word, but brought up and expected to hit immediately on a short leash, with Cutch blocking his spot at DH
He wasn’t rushed as much as had his head messed with. Same thing, really
You draft him number one as a catcher
Then you bring him up. Play him some in RF. DH him a bit. Sit him. Never catch him even in mop ups
Next season comes and he gets promises beforehand about getting lots of reps in spring training. Then Endy goes down. Davis has a solid spring but you bring in Grandal and Bart to catch, with him and Delay
He’s up and down on the shuttle in April and May, right up until now
What’s the message to the kid? Say one thing, do another? This franchise and their development people are a pathetic joke
the franchise isn’t the only joke, so is the manager
Shelton used an excuse that made no sense in developing the lineup for today’s game
He used Palacios in center instead of Jack so Joe could play right field
Palacios is not a better hitter than Jack despite his current numbers and Jor does horribly against right handed pitching
The reason why Joe hit 2 homers against this pitcher when both were in the minors
It’s been 4 years since Joe played a minor league game
That would be like me saying that because I could run the 2 minute mile in 14 minutes when I was in the military 45 years ago, I should be able to now at 68
throw a rookie catcher into a position where he’s never played, particularly fielding the Clemente right field wall it’s only natural that he wouldn’t be good
SMH
Bucs have a history of just talking to teams. Ideal time to make an actual move to improve the offense.
Hah, that’s what they said in 2018 and poof Chris Archer.
Just because you make 1 bad trade doesn’t mean you stop trading and stop trying.
I agree pink. My point was that older regimes would come out and say that they spoke to teams but couldn’t make a deal. Same with free agents. I’m not in love with Chaz but this would be a significant offensive upgrade.
Cherington isn’t Huntington. He’s not about to trade away the farm so to speak for an over the hill outfielder
Jazz is 26 years old. I wouldn’t call that over the hill. Are you referring to someone else?
I was speaking in general terms and not specifically about Jazz, but he’s injury prone and strikes out way too much for a team that wants to be consistent
The Bucs needs players who can get on base and not only does he strikeout too much ( 100 times so far) but rarely walks
Sort of a younger Michael A Taylor except with more power
I mostly agree with your take on Jazz. At least the injury concerns and the strike outs. Jazz’s confidence intrigues me and I’d like to see how that would play on the Pirates.
The game has changed, look at the Phillies. Lots of strikeouts but when they hit they are mostly unstoppable. I wouldn’t be apposed to Jazz as long as it isn’t several high rated prospects (Archer trade). If it requires that kind of package they need to aim higher say Robert from the White Sox.
Man, I want those players too but they’re few and far between and not readily available. Jazz shouldnt cost too much to acquire. We wont improve unless we get better players. If they want an arm and leg then no thanks.
Derek Hill was dfa today by the Rangers. It wouldn’t be a surprise if Cherington made a deal for him
I think they’re doing their due diligence and will add someone like Ward, Jazz or I still think there’s reason to believe Josh Bell is on their radar
I wouldn’t want Josh Bell if it meant giving up a decent prospect or two
The minors are pretty bare of position prospects at the higher levels but do have several at Double A and lower
Bell is a 2 month rental. Someone with a few years of control is what they should be looking for
The only reason I keep listing Bell is he’d only require a PTBNL and something like 2 mil of his contract
He’s on the list of guys who could add some depth to the lineup without giving up a top 15 or so prospect
With Suwinski hitting a little better, and guys like Joe/Cutch/Davis options in RF, they don’t necessarily need a OF
(even tho that would still be my preference over a 1B)
Hypothetical, they trade for Bell, which current player gives up his roster spot, putting into consideration the player he’s traded for isn’t on the parent club, Goku?
Would prob be trading Taylor for him
And pay the difference of an extra 2 mil into Bell’s contract
So pirates pay 8 of the 15 mil (ratio of remaining) and Marlins take on Taylor’s 6 mil , so pirates basically buy Bell for 2 mil
Miami wants prospects. Not old glove only outfielders.
No, miami wants salary relief (from Bell)
Goku, they already have stated they’re willing to eat most of his salary
Bell costs too much
It was a hypothetical question, Black. I am certainly not advocating for an acquisition of Bell
Likewise I’m no big fan of bell and have made it pretty clear in my posts why I think he’d be an option (not a preference)
My preference would be Lane Thomas
Again, you add Bell. To play against left hand pitching only?
Can’t play OF
Can’t take away at bats for Cutch
Why do you add him? Absolutely no reason
Well tellez sure looks like a flash in the pan , but primarily Bell would be replacing Joe and putting Cutch in RF at home a bit more
Goku, I think Cutch would like to play OF from time to time. Don’t know that he actually can. Is it all enough that they could continually juggle? Who knows?
I just don’t see the value of Bell beyond a predictable walk-off that would come
I guess I just don’t see much difference between Palacios or Joe receiving less ABs (if they were to acquire a RF instead)
Kudos. At least the Pirates are talking to somebody instead of sitting on their hands.
I’m pretty sure every team is talking to all of the other teams to see if they can make an improvement, including the Reds. It’s just that most of those convos don’t get leaked. Or rather, it isn’t in anyone’s interests for those convos to get leaked.
The Reds seem to play this game like everyone else, leaking to Nightengale whenever it suits them….
Usually when you hear about something, it is after the fact and it had already went nowhere. Otherwise a deal would have happened.
Anyone who thinks the Reds will do anything but save Bob some lettuce now that they are under .500 is just fooling themselves.
Pirates please say no to any deal involving jazz. He’s a goofy and really not worth a top prospect. Dbacks fleeced the marlins brass for him to begin with
That’s what I came here to say…
Would fit the center field need but again I don’t think he’s good enough to overpay for. Better than what they have, but not an all star type player. Honestly I’d trade the pitching prospect with the lowest velocity, Solomento or Harrington then go from there. Jared Jones didn’t dominate the minors but can’t teach his velocity and that made him a success.
Can’t teach velocity but you can grow into it. Solometo is only 21 years old. He can probably still add a few mph’s in the next few years.
It’s not all about velocity. If you don’t have command, you are just another thrower that will get killed in the big leagues.
The writer is wrong on Gonzales. He’s been a virtual rock at 2b. My complaint is about Shelton. Why is he holding out mitch keller from starting against the Phillies. It’s ludicrous. Of course Sheltons managing is ludicrous
I generally don’t agree with a lot of Shelton’s decisions but I do like holding Keller back to presumably pitch in the Cardinals series instead of the Phillies series, assuming that’s actually the plan. Gives the team a better chance to beat a division opponent that’s in the hunt with the Bucs for a wild card game as opposed to trying to beat a team that aren’t chasing for anything.
I get what you’re saying, Jimmyz about preferring to beat a division opponent but they should be focused on beating everyone not just a team they are competing against for a playoff position
Yup, a win against St. Louis has a real chance to be worth more than a win vs Philly. It’s also a loss for them in WC/division series, and could play into tie breakers.
Gonzales is a RBI machine
I’m at the point where I think some of you people are so programmed by the Fan that it no longer matters what Shelton does.
Say you pitched them against the Phillies and they lost. You’d be on here saying oh great now we have the scrubs pitching against a division rival. Great job Shelton.
We were discussing Chisholm and the Mariners the other day and I like the fit there but this is an even better fit imo. The Pirates could use help at both center and wb and have right handed hitters at both those positions currently. Chisholm is under control at good prices for the next 2 plus years so no budget concerns or concern over selling the farm for a rental. And heck if Davis can catch that would be a good get for the Marlins they need a catcher bad.
I rarely listen to the Fan
Excellent point about the need of a lefthanded 2b bat – makes me want to go get him.
Could you imagine if the Pirates go for it and grab Chisholm/Luis Robert and Alonso/Vlad Jr to fill their giant CF and 1B holes in the lineup?
I want to see it happen
1B isn’t a hole. Rowdy has been on fire for 2 months now. Longterm it’s a hole but getting another rental doesn’t fix that problem.
exactly. ronnsnow
Empty the farm so that way in 5 years I can read the “how clueless could you be trade to so and so” by the same writer who’s saying they’re too in love with their prospects today
Nice to see the Pirates actually make moves but their system is pretty pitching heavy outside of Termarr Johnson so not sure I see the fit.
Marlins need a ready to play catcher. The Pirates have one in Henry Davis.
they haven’t made any moves yet. Last week the talk was interest in Taylor Ward and that didn’t happen and it could be that other teams are asking for players Cherington is reluctant to give up
Wake me when Termarr starts hitting. Until then, he’s like every other position player who comes through this system
And if they trade one bonafide prospect for this dude, it’s an overpay
He’s hit a lot the last few weeks.
The guy is what 20, playing probably about 2 years ahead of his age, but let’s give him up for an upgrade which might not even be an upgrade at all.
Not sure where I said “give up on him,” NJBirds, but ok. I guess you’ve missed the steady progression of big time prospects who’ve been drafted or brought in via trade and just never pan out
Pardon me for saying that in this franchise, I’ll believe it when I see it
This franchise has drafted poorly where position players are concerned. They’ve done even worse where player development is concerned
Someone here asked why people second guess Shelton’s decisions so I will do just that
Hitters are batting .171 against Sanchez so why play Cruz against a lefty?
He’s struck out twice in tonight’s game once with a runner at third base and one out
Is Triolo not available? He hasn’t played since well before the AS break
Agree 100 percent Paul. Cruz should have rode the bench tonight.
Pirates have a lot of hitters A ball and lower. High ceiling far from finished product. Those will get you 90 percent of players available for trade. Their half dozen available pitchers will get you the other 10 percent but I doubt they go that route.
Devils advocate again
Yes. Many hitters.
And when they get here the only thing they hit is the shuttle back to Indy
Cmon, my friend. This franchise can’t develop players. That’s the problem
No. They don’t. You say this every year and they arrive here, only to be on the shuttle to Indy a few weeks later
All of the outfielders who came up last year were said to be hitters. Funny how observers changed their tunes after carping about how their stats said they were real hitters in waiting
Davis. Endy. Bae. Peguero. Smith-Ngigba. Palacios. Triolo. None of these have proven they can hit consistently. And the list could go for days
They follow guys like Hayes, who came through the same system
Charles McAdoo. Tony Blanco. De Los Santos. Jhonny Severino. Teams would be interested in them.
Smith Bae Palacios were never expected to hit.
Wake me when they hit at this level. How many years of listing prospects who never pan out are you up to now?
Everyone I listed panned out. You guys even still are taking about Bae as trade chip and a center fielder. I been telling you for years he is toast unless he develops himself like Gonzales. Told you CSN was done for for years. Told you Martin and Nunez weren’t happening. Fans finally moved on to them and now it’s Gorski and guess what I told you about him? It’s not me hyping up these prospects. And the discussion is on trading prospects not keeping and developing them. I have no confidence in Pirates hitting development. Just saying other teams would be interested in these kids via trade.
I think St. Louis is the best fit for him, he needs a little of that “Cardinal Way” injected into him, Goldschmidt, Arenado, Edmonds would whip his butt in gear and demand he play at his highest level with no goofy BS
the Pirates aren’t about to trade anyone to a division rival and especially to one they are competing against for a playoff spot
Tired’s point is that the position player development system is horrible and recent players are evidence of his claim
Name the last position player who was drafted by this organization that became a legitimate hitter?
The only names that come to my mind are Cutch and Neil Walker. The jury is still out on Gonzalez and Davis and each were the franchise’s #1 picks
Bucs “so are you, uh, giving him away for free?”
Marlins “nah”
Bucs “he’s too expensive”
Maybe the Pirates can hire Dora as a consultant.
Hard pass. This would be a giant waste.
This guy makes more sense for the Twins. Fits in on the IL team.
Byron Buxton has entered the chat.
Jazz Chisholm will be a Dodger soon.
He’d be an improvement over Gavin Lux.
Don’t Jazz and Rojas have big problems with each other?
Hard pass for me especially considering the talent literally at the mlb level in Gonzales or breaking down the door in the minors in Johnson. Why pay a premium for a club house cancer.
Who wrote this article? Hope not getting paid! Gonzalez is playing great! Defense and hitting! Batting 4th alot. He makes contact. Pass on Chism PLEASE!!!
Chisholm! Sorry !
Please pass. Don’t need another head case. Still recovering from Lastings Milledge and the Pirates-Nats trade of head cases.
Nobody has to worry, I believe the Royals are gonna take the chance on him
unless you’re a Royals front office employee, everything said here is pure speculation
Not the answer but as Madden says in today’s TribLive mini-column, just enough to sell the rubes on the idea that hey, at least they’re trying
I get Dream’s thoughts on Nutting. Hall of Fame finance guy. But as a baseball guy, pathetic cheapskate who’d do to this town what the A’s owner is doing to Oakland if circumstances were similar
In a heartbeat
They * need* to sign two big bats—two real sticks—this off season in free agency
They have the money. It’s just abject greed and they won’t sign anyone even approaching *good* status (and no, I don’t mean unapproachable guys like Soto. Get real)
This is just another propaganda move from Nutting to get cans in the stands. In the end, this guy won’t move the needle at all and they’ll still be running in place
it will be the annual dumpster dive event that most Pirate fans have become accustomed to
Nutting wants to win. Just as long as it doesn’t cut into his share. The guy extends anyone who wants to be in Pittsburgh and is intelligent. When he needed to spend max $ he spent it. Unfortunately 100m was max. New $ and inflation he can probably go to 110 115m now. Don’t like it then find another team. Unless Steve Cohen becomes a Pirates fan this is what it is. Doesn’t matter if Nutting sells. The new owner will want to make $ too. Unless a owner is on their deathbed and really wants a championship, teams spend what their demographics allows them to.
Why didn’t Nutting spend 100m this year? Because he didn’t have to. The best 1b available cost 3 or 5 million. The Braves just gave you little Marco for free. Jays paid 10 or 11m for KK and Pirates got the same guy for 4. They saved so much $ and had nothing better to spend it on so they out bid everyone else on Chapman.
The only way a small market can win and sustain winning is by spending in draft and international signings. Extending your own players. Avoid free agents like the plague they are. Trade away your players before becoming free agents. Pirates are running the winning playbook. Nutting did exactly what I recommended this year. If he spent 110m he would have just thrown away 25m and likely had a worse team. If the Pirates hitting development could take a big step forward Pittsburgh is contending for championships. They still might if they make the right trades.
And don’t believe the lies about Nutting not allowing anymore payroll for trade deadline. I don’t think Nutting is stupid and hates making more $ lol
You’ve launched this explanation before and I get it
But it doesn’t describe the Pirates rebuild
75% came through solidly. The problem is the 25% that didn’t includes outfielders with power and rbi potential
Please, don’t tell me the Pirates have this in their system. They don’t, at any level
So they’re left with a conundrum
They’re not going to burn it all down
Do they continue to try to grind out wins, and perhaps add another “bat” who isn’t the answer?
Do they stand pat?
Do they bring in a couple big guns and really augment the 75% that is in place here?
Baseball people—real baseball people— would go with the last option. It’s a no brainer
But your “Nutting wants to win” scenario is humorous here. Yes, I want a Ferrari, too
The difference between Nutting and I is in the ability to buy. He has it in spades but refuses
I’ll let TheMan3 explain why long suffering Pirates fans deserve better
“He has it in spades but refuses” He actually doesn’t. Not even close. Not that he would if he could.
Owners don’t spend their own money. For your assignment I want you to write that down as many times as it takes to sink in. Doesn’t matter who the Pirates owner is unless like I said Cohen becomes a Pirates fan. And he probably only spent his own $ because of tax write offs. And those write offs are time limited. If you want a team that spends more than the Pirates there are plenty to choose from. Don’t blame Nutting. It’s your fault for choosing to root for a small market team.
Nutting doesn’t have the $ to spend out of his own pocket anyways. Not that owners do but he couldn’t even if he wanted to. He is cash poor. He is a billionaire because he owns a team worth a billion dollars. Other business is newspapers. If you won the lottery are you investing in newspapers? Maybe double down on vhs rental stores? Guy sold ski resorts for 125m. So after taxes if he choose to buy players instead of more real estate he could afford a St Louis Cardinals payroll for 1 year. Not a smart investment. If anything save that $ for your last year of life if you haven’t won yet. You just need to find a team that operates how you want that can afford to do so. Nutting isn’t the problem, you are.
“Please, don’t tell me the Pirates have this in their system. They don’t, at any level”
Their 1st round pick potential is 30 30 even 40 40 gold glove center fielder. Blame development not scouting if he doesn’t come near that. Kid has off the charts raw tools. Top of the scale bat speed and exit velocity. Sounds like a highly motivated hard worker that wants to soak up knowledge and achieve greatness. The best highschool prospect in the country. Could have said that last year as well. Scouts have been drooling over him since 8th 9th grade. You don’t get a better outfield prospect than this. This is Mike Trout right here. Or maybe Joe Adell. Mind blown huh. Same prospect. Same team. Shows you the variable outcomes. But that’s why he was available at pick 9. If you drafted on talent alone he goes #1.
Pirates don’t need hrs and rbis from outfield. They already have Reynolds. The just need positive players. Taylor Suwinski have been black holes. If they had 2023 Jack they are a game or 2 back of Milwaukee. Same thing if they went with Winker instead of Olivares.
The DREAM scenario is trading for Winker and Pillar. Jack is trending up. Pillar plays vs LHP. Taylor pinch runs defense replacement. Joe Winker is a all star.
Pillar is a easy get. Everything is expensive this year. But guy is a weak platoon, retiring in 2 or 3 months. Only has so much trade value. Winker though… Everyone wants him. But he has more value to Pittsburgh than any other team. For winning this year give me Winker. Joe Chisholm Joe Ward isn’t a all star. Joe Winker is.
Three posts of complete, abject baloney
First off, about Nutting
Where did you glean that I was looking for him to go to the bank for withdrawals, personally?
But do some research before you embarrass yourself further about his corporate worth. The PG did an outstanding expose on his profit margins a few years back. Yes, he’s signed Reynolds, Keller and Skenes since then but this is a very profitable corporation.
We’ll never see eye to eye about the farm system. You rely on numbers. I rely on the eye test, especially at the MLB level. This leadership has produced no impact player in their time here. I suspect they never will
Do you work for the Pirates?
Or are you Winker’s agent? The guy’s a Pirate killer, but he’s not going to given them the bat they need. Nor is Jazz. It’s just as Madden described, propaganda for the rubes
The small market tripe is fine. The rebuild idea was fine ala the Rays blueprint. But they’d rather run in place than go for it
But hey, we have fireworks and pierogi races
Don’t care how much Nutting makes. He ain’t spending it. Tampa Oakland Cleveland KC Milwaukee Cincinnati go look at their payroll history. It’s 120 130 tops. Some of those cities have domes. Only 2 sports. Own parking around ballpark. If they were spending 200m I would destroy Nutting. But they aren’t. Why expect Nutting to spend when no other comparable market spends? They run their team as a business and take as much profit as they can. When they do spend it is only because it allows them to make a bigger profit. But they don’t spend to where it will decrease their profit. Nutting just does what everyone else does.
I enjoy talking with you but for real you need to find a new team. Nutting isn’t the problem. The problem is Pittsburgh demographics. There isn’t enough people and they don’t make enough $. And they built pnc too soon. Baseball became more popular and it doesn’t hold enough people. Like yesterday or Friday imagine if the Pirates were on pace to be a 100 win team or Skenes was pitching. Easily could hav sold 50 60 thousand tickets but would have been limited to 40.
No idea why you don’t Winker. Don’t you want to win more games? Have a wild card secured and battling for the division. Winker would have been a huge upgrade. If you dfa Olivares Palacios they would be lucky to get claimed on waiver or be traded for cash consideration. Winker is going to be traded for prospects. Good prospects. Teams think 2 months of Winker is more valuable than 4 5 years of Olivares Palacios. Like 10x 20x 30x more valuable. Some strange reason you are happy with these dumpster dive scrubs playing. You watch every game. You been a fan since the 60s 70s 80s whenever. You should be the one pounding the table for Winker. Yes it incredibly strange that I am the one out of everyone here that is being the most vocal.
You’re missing the point. Again
I aspire to more than a WC berth
Winter, Chisholm ….scrap, nothing more
This team isn’t capable of winning a playoff series
But if just getting there is the goal, sure
You just aren’t valuing Winker accordingly. The best teams in baseball want him. Mets Phillies Braves anyone who wants to upgrade corner outfielder. Not as depth. Not as a bench piece. To start. Teams that just making the playoffs isn’t good enough. Teams thats world series championship or bust want Winker. But he isn’t good enough for Pittsburgh? Give me a break. This guy moves the needle. Maybe not all the way but a key part.
45 years is why long suffering Pirate fans deserve more
Sure, there were a few playoff seasons in the 1990’s and a few in the second decade of this millennium but that’s been it
Making the playoffs and not going any further
I will also include the empty promise of the competitive team if a new stadium is built to replace 3 Rivers
Sure they became one but it took more than 10 years to make it happen
And they never went anywhere in the playoffs
We deserve better than just making the playoffs
Baloney
The guy moves nothing. It’s why he’s been a journeyman. He’s Joey Gallo but a bit younger. Give it a break already
I just saw and revisited this post. I don’t take it personally. You shouldn’t either
In many regards, I’m a dinosaur, both where the sport in general is concerned and with Pirates fandom
I know what good baseball is. Both as a fan and as a coach/manager. The Pirates as constructed don’t play it and haven’t since Cutch’s heyday here. Unfortunately for those teams, they had guys like Arrieta, Bumgarner and Wacha standing in their way
The same could be said for Leyland’s great teams and the Braves. Or the NL East battles in the 70’s
Quite possibly, fans like me were spoiled by seeing Pirates teams playing good baseball for spells
This team is nowhere near the description of a good team. You tend to write with your heart at times. My thing is coming completely from a baseball angle, neither Winker or Chisholm make them a good team
That’s as simple as it gets
You can aspire to just getting in the door. You can tell me that even in the era of 5-inning starts, Keller, Skenes and Jones are the great equalizer
And it’s still not reflective of a good baseball team
My point remains, adding two solid sticks would put them in that category. But they have an owner driven by profits only. No reason to spend on salaries when a .500 team and a couple phenoms get the cash register ringing
They need to do something, certain current players approach pitches with lackluster swings
They desperately need a right fielder who can produce and hit for power. Same goes with center field.
Sure they won 6 games in a row but then they forgot how to score runs and now have just scored 1 run in the last 13 innings
But what does anyone expect?
Several of their starters would be bench players on any other team and are only starters here because they are inexpensive and healthy
Mookie Betts 892 ops. Mike Trout 867.
Pete Alonso 770. Vlad jr 833. Cody Bellinger 742. Lindor 798. Corey Seager 817
Joe 814 vs LHP. Winker 871 vs RHP.
It’s like having a all star bat in rf.
I know you can’t see it. Only bright eyes could. Have a lil faith though. I’ve been having a fantastic year.
Also add Mark Canha. He can play outfield and 1b. 892 ops. For dinosaurs he also has a .299 batting average. Thats 1 shy of 300!!! Lots of weak platoons.
Giants have 2 outfielders who are everyday players. And under control for 2025.
Pillar has 1000 ops and can still play cf. Really want him. Winker is key though. Unless they get Giants.
Huge upgrade though. Suwinski is trending up but every bat he has taken and Taylor has been a black hole. Every bat Pillar would take vs LHP would be like having mvp cutch. Everyone Palacios Olivares Joe vs RHP has been average. Vs Winker being all star.
yeah, who needs outfielders that can drive in runs anyway?
They can just rely on an occasional wild pitch or passed ball or error to score runs
AS ( sarcasm) and red hot Connor Joe is 1 for his last 11 plate appearances while Jack is hardly trending up
AND, we are 9 days until the trading deadline and all the Bucs have to show for it is re signing German to a minor league contract
In what capacity is Jack trending up? Certainly isn’t his increased power or gap shots?
Ever since Haines changed his batting stance, Jack has lacked any significant lift on his swings
He looks better and stats back it up. 795 ops in July. Reynolds last year was 790 to give you an example. Every other month he was 500 something. So up huge really.
I heard announcer say Lynn got lit up by the Nats. Was hoping to look it up and see Winker hit hr and drove in 4 runs or something. Not that exciting. But he did walk 3 times and scored 2 runs..
2 for 2 Jack is back!!!!
Good for Shelton to ignore analytics and leave Skenes in for 9th. Fans loved it, well for 2 minutes.
You guys wish Winker and his 800 something ops was on the bench. Or Pillar wirh his 1000 something ops? Or Taylor with his 500 something ops?
Dream, again, these guys are upgrades. They aren’t what this team needs, however. You can analytic me until the cows come home
I’ve watched Pillar his entire career. Good defensive outfielder. And not the hitter they need
I’ve watched Winker kill the Pirates numerous times. He’ll get hits here and there but again, he’s not the answer
They have a core here that would benefit greatly by adding two big sticks this off season. Reynolds is already the consummate hitter. But Cruz, Gonzales and perhaps even Hayes would benefit by having a couple of rbi guys around them
We’re not talking Josh Bell here. In fact, we’re not talking any salary dump type or a guy that would require a number of prospects
No one is going to come here and greatly improve the offense in the next few days
They need to commit to spending this off season
But Nutting won’t. To the casual observer, I feel he believes he tried that during Cutch’s first go round and financially speaking got him nowhere
Shame. Last night’s game is a microcosm of how the stud pitching staff will progress here
Jazz is 251 AvG(1 points below Cruz and is top 3), 12 HR( will make him tied with Cutch top 3), 42 RBIs(top 3) and 90 hits( top 2). He can bat before or after Reynolds and then Rowdy could see better pitches too.
He is an upgrade from any outfield we have except Reynolds. If is not a lot, it would be better than Roberts/Ward. We dont need only power but actually get on base and hits.
Jazz draws very few walks and strikes out already in double digits
That’s hardly a player who gets on base more than any player we have
Suwinski even draws walks. Taylor, not so much
And currently the Bucs have the second most strikeouts of any team in the league
You make no sense.
Suwinski 26 BB and OBP 260
Taylor 14 BB and 258 OBP
Jazz 35 and 322 OBP which would out him above Cruz in OBP and has 100 SO which is still less than Cruz and lets not forget Reynolds has 90+. Jazz is only a liability on defense and he has really good numbers considering his team is really really bad. He could definitely improve those numbers if he has help while also improving everyone elses because everyone will see better pitches. I would move Gonzo to 3B, eliminate triolo from the lineup and have Jazz at 2B.
I said even Jack draws walks, that’s it
Maybe you should take a course in reading comprehension
On his career Jazz is around average over all with the bat. If he plays a mostly full season, probably near the league leaders in strike outs.
There is no place for him in the infield currently. When healthy 3rd is Hayes, period. Nick is doing about as well as Jazz (+/-)
Pirates need outfield offense. Jazz is a pretty Large upgrade as things stand even with some iffy outfield defense.
Jack gets it together, he and Jack are around equal footing with Jazz having a bit more flexibility on defense even if it isn’t the best.
You also said “ That’s hardly a player who gets on base more than any player we have” which he clears almost everyone on BB and OBP But ok bud
I think Cedric Mullins would be a better get for the Bucs.
Is Baltimore trading even trading him? If the clubhouse likes him they probably should keep him around.
I’m not your “ bud” so unless you don’t want to be muted, be respectful
Unfortunately, Jazz can’t play centerfield. He can’t play shortstop. He does okay at second base, but why would you displace Gonzalez? Tanking is no longer rewarded.
Given the way the current team is built (pitching heavy), I would not want more substandard fielders (Suwinski is enough.). Substandard fielding negates the advantage you get from pitching
I think the Pirates would be better served bringing up Bae. He’s been hitting around .350 or more, he earned it and would help the team. For those who are focused just on power, there are more ways to manufacture runs than home runs, e.g. Pirates’ game last night.
Skeptical – Bae is not a good CF and has hit .238 in the mlb. Suwinski is a terrible CF and hits .177. Taylor is a good CF but is hitting .203. How does Jazz not improve the lineup?
Club house cancer. Absolutely terrible in cf. History of injuries. He has one year with a OPS+ above 100. What’s to like? Why overpay for mediocrity? Unless you are willing to pay for hype. If you are going to buy, buy wisely, don’t just buy what is on the market at the time.
Bae is hitting very well in AAA this year. It would make sense to bring him up and see if it translates to the majors before spending prospects. People are too trade happy, believing that trades bring silver bullets. Sometimes they do, most times they don’t. Right now, it is a seller’s market. Wait and see who drops out of contention and is now wiling to sell.
Pirates are well aware of what Bae can’t do. He needs to build his own hitting lab.
@ skeptical he’s currently on pace for his 3rd straight year with a wrc+ over 100, the year prior(his 1st full season) he had a 94 wrc+. To imply he’s been a below average hitter his entire career is strange.
He also provides value on the bases, and in the field. His best spot is probably 2nd base, where a 100-110 wrc+ w above average defense and speed is a valuable player.
Though I’d be less high on him for a team looking for corner OF help. He’d be a relatively great defender in a corner OF spot, but I’d imagine you could get more offense for much less prospect capital than Jazz will cost.
You’re right, there are more ways to manufacture runs than just hitting homers but this team lacks in the basic fundamentals
They can’t bunt, either to try for a hit or to sacrifice a runner into scoring position
And yes last night they were able to manufacture runs without hitting a homer but they’re too inconsistent to expect that every game
Your points are well taken and a lot like DreamGM’s continued beating of the drum for Winker
Point is, neither of these guys are significantly going to upgrade this team. If the idea is that getting a wild card in this incredibly average NL field is the goal, yeah, great
But if you wish to build around what’s going to be one of the majors’ best starting pitching groups, want to surround guys like Reynolds, Cruz, Endy, Gonzales with guys who will only enhance their at bats/pitches, these aren’t the players needed. You need to spend in free agency
This owner won’t.
And yes, given Jazz’s at bats today—two ugly strikeouts—he’d fit in well here
If you keep running out the same lineups, with or without Bae, and expect glaringly different results you’re crazy. At some point Reynolds and Tellez will cool off and who’s going to carry the load?.
The sad truth here is likely evident even the most casual baseball fans
Imagine a pitching staff of Keller, Skenes, Jones and fill in any two names outside of Perez or Gonzalez here
You have Endy back. You have Cruz and Gonzales maturing. You have a solid glove at 3rd, if nothing else. You have a consummate hitter in Reynolds.
You have perhaps Tellez off the bench
What you need are 2 outfielders with some pop. Some RBI prowess
But unless I’m seriously wrong and Nutting turns into a baseball guy who really wants to win, you’re going to get these lower level additions. Guys who are slight “upgrades” to what you have.
Nothing more
Look, I’m ok with a .500 team. To me, that’s all you’re going to get here. But the travesty is it wouldn’t take much for this team to be a serious threat and not just a WC team
This is true. Thats why I also thing Moving Hayes might hurt but he is not a offensive players and having him really hurts too. Glove over bats and we have another Taylor at 3B. Honestly Gonzo at 3B could work and Jazz at 2B, LF Reynolds, CF/RF Palacios/Winker/Bleday, SS Cruz, 1B Joe/Tellez, C really hope is Bart
My projections have Pittsburgh winning the division if they add Winker Pillar. What are the odds of getting 1 let alone both. And Milwaukee probably isn’t just going to sit back and do nothing. But that’s how close the division is still and how much a difference 2 rentals could be. Don’t think they are going to be cheap just because they are rentals. Winker is an extremely hot commodity right now.
If the Pirates only traded for Winker most fans would be disappointed. But that’s a all in move. A bubble team trading for a rental is bold. And they should be bold. A lot has changed. Reds Cubs Giants have fallen off. There just isn’t 1 wild card available but 2. And the division isn’t a fantasy.
They need a LHB all star.
Palacios could Play CF have Connor Joe RF instead of the 1B platoon since Rowdy has been hot.
If they Pirates are greedy, we could trade away Suwinski, Taylor, Bae(if necessary), Chapman, minor leaguers and even Triolo and Jazz plus a OF like Winker/Bleday should be fine.
Palacios can’t play cf. Will be dfa if they add to the outfield. If he was any good they wouldn’t need Winker.
Taylor would be a salary dump for a lotto ticket or international cash. Bae has low trade value. If you are buying Jazz Bleday you are keeping Chapman. If you trade him you need to replace him. It will cost you more for a lesser reliever than Chapman would bring back. You likely still need a reliever with keeping Chapman.
wouldn’t be top of my list to try to get but certainly an upgrade. I would rather get a rental then look for something in the off season.
If i’m trading for someone that might take my higher end talent i’m going all out.
Pipe dream, I’d try to pry Trout away from LA. A risk for sure but new team that is on the way up and new eyes might make the difference. A healthy Trout the second half puts the pirates in reach of the division title.
regardless. after this Phillies series will be a major factor in any decisions I would make.
Not sure a healthy Trout exist. Negative value contract. Another teams star. Much rather extend Skenes Cruz or someone already here or coming.
I actually think I like Jazz going to Pittsburgh better than most other teams. I think a McCutchen lead clubhouse will reign him in without breaking his spirit.
The Pirates should forget about Jazz.
They should go after Brent Rooker.
They have not had a banger since Pedro Alvarez.
Rocker is a below average fielder so he would become a DH and an occasional left fielder.Reynolds would either get a rest or move to center field. He will be wearing down in the second half otherwise.Cutch would DH and play some right field.He will be wearing down too and will be injury prone.
I would want Lucas Erceg in thee deal.
The Pirates would give up Braxton Ashcroft,Jiwan Bei,and Martin Perez.
Hopefully the A’s would go for it.
That’s not enough. Have to add at least another prospect in 8-15 range. Bae doesn’t have much value and I doubt they want Perez at all.
Oakland doesn’t have to win trades. If they like Ashcraft it’s done.
Bae is closer to being dfa than being a valuable trade chip.
Oakland has no interest in Perez or any rental. I think Perez has to show something his next start. He looked awful last game. Another start like that and you are hoping to just salary dump him.
Perez was a dumpster dive from the start. Marco, even worse. These were placeholders. Nothing more
I said a year ago Ortiz should be a starter. Look at him now. Not that I’m a baseball genius—I am— but it again speaks to the old school eye test versus the new breed of baseball gurus who base everything on analytics.
The names being bandied about here are hilarious in this regard. What it relates to is the idea that a wild card berth equals being competitive. And it is multiplied by the crew who laughingly says that Skenes, Keller and Jones make a formidable threesome in any playoff series so who knows?
Yeah. Problem is that in the age of 5-6 inning starts, that’s not enough. The other team likely got there with good starters too, and the Pirates can’t hit
But Winker, Chisholm, others….keep pounding those drums. They’d add very little—certainly not much more than what’s already here
Again, .500 is good enough for me. No expectations. And in this era, it’s good enough to compete for a WC berth.
The shame of it is that in another era, with a Doughty or Thryft at GM, the effort would be to bring in big time hitters
I continue to think that Nutting tells his GM that he went all-in during the Cutch-Walker-AJ years and feels burned because he didn’t get a championship. He’ll never spend the money
Dream- I included Perez because they need to dump him now and let Priester start or Fleming as a bullpen game.Perez had a very good April and a couple of very good starts since but Shelton as per normal lets bad starts in too long and the Pirates cannot usually overcome that.
We have to defer to Tired on Ortiz who hopefully keeps on starting like a Cy Young winner.
I was hoping that Oakland needed a CF and would bite on Bae.
I still think that Rooker is the answer even though they would have to shoehorn him in.
Tired-500 is not good enough for me.Each year is different and progress is not guaranteed.
Marco Gonzalez is hurt a lot but his four starts this year have been good ones and hopefully that continues.
From their abysmal 51 win equivalent in 2020 they reached 76 last year,or 25 over,averaging 8 per year.Another 8 wins puts them at 84 this year,which is the least amount that is acceptable for a trending upward team.
Back in the day, we called guys like him “garbage pitchers.” They threw continuous junk. Hey, Randy Jones was a garbage pitcher and won the Cy Young one year
But this is the 5 inning variety, if that. Given what they have in pitching depth, there was no need for this guy Sorry. I wouldn’t categorize his starts as good and truthfully, it’s just a matter of time until the clock strikes midnight for him
Oakland wants to pay for Perez remaining salary even less than Nutting does if you can believe that. Perez goes to a team trying to make the playoffs that’s desperate for a 5th starter. Just get them through the season. The Perez this spring had command. That Perez had value. That Perez pitched 10 games giving up 4 runs or less. Only 1 game he gave up more than 4 and it was a lot more 9 runs. That Perez gets you a nice prospect. Now it’s looking reverse. Every 10 games he gives you 1 good one! Right now he is a pure salary dump. A team takes him for free and hopes he just needs to blow the rust off.
It’s called depth and avoiding destroying arms. You think they were going to let Ortiz throw 200 innings this year? If you take Ortiz out of the pen that only adds another dumpster dive to a already weak pen. He was just where he needed to be. Kept his innings down and was ready to start when needed.
If the Pirates had Chisholm Winker alm year the are leading the Central right now. So yes they make a difference!
Bae isn’t a center fielder unless Oakland can teach him to be. Oakland isn’t worried about center field. They just want to Vegas. That’s all they care about. Then they will care.
There depth has been pushed to the limit. They needed every single bit of it. Bullpen has been weak with Ortiz Priester being part of it at points. What if Falter Jones got hurt sooner or couldn’t return? Remember last year losing Velasquez Brubaker Oviedo for the year? Pirates had just enough depth and were extremely extremely magically lucky not to lose a single starter to serious arm injury.
No. They wouldn’t. Milwaukee would still be the better team. You overvalue average players because they one-up guys who are here. But that’s not saying much
Using your logic, why not just have 14 pitchers on staff and make every game a reliever game? In fact, everyone is a starter and everyone is a reliever. Why not?
Ortiz had it all over Perez and Marco from the start. The troubles of those two guys is no surprise.
But your logic is flawed. Why have Keller go 5,6,7 innings? Does he have a bionic arm?
Ummm try counting. There usually is 13 or 14 pitchers on the team.
Keller already had his arm built up. 159 innings 2022 194 2023. Skenes Jones Ortiz will be allowed to go 200 innings just not this year. You don’t go from 100 to 200. You work your way up.
There could be 20 pitchers on the team, given your logic. “You work your way up”. From where?
I get muscle memory quite well
I also understand pitcher injuries
Again, why not just reliever game after reliever game. Given your thinking, a guy would have to be an injury free starter for a number of years before it’s safe to go an entire season
You can’t possibly believe what you’re writing
Pearl-Then I would add a 12-15 .They would subtract 3 off the ML roster and only add 2 and get rid of Perez’ remaining $2.5M salary.
If Bae is brought along he can be a decent CF and if he learns bat control can be a decent hitter.
Reading through comments in articles about Jazz makes me think he’s underrated now. You’d think he’s a bum the way alot of people talk.
Did he deserve to be on THE SHOW cover? No
Is he going to be put up a 5+ WAR season? No
Is he a Gold Glove CF? No
He is however a relatively young guy that’s demonstrated he can at a minimum hit at a league average rate, while adding value on the bases and in the field. That’s already a valuable player, playing in a less than ideal situation, with age on his side. You give up good prospects for that guy 10/10 times if he can fill a spot in your lineup
Pirates are just checking in. You can report had talks with any team possibly trading outfielders. Teams focused on the draft. Took a lil break after all that hard work. Focus is now on signing picks and evaluating their position. This weekend back after the break was is critical. Next series important. After that any team on the fence should have it’s mind made up and trades will flow. Can see some happening now and in the next few days but come Wednesday Thursday teams should have a much better idea on what they will do. Most the action usually happens last 3 days. If you are making the playoffs for sure then anytime you can make a deal you do. But for the Pirates playoffs isn’t a guarantee. You are looking for the bargains. And I agree. They aren’t in the playoffs. I don’t want to outbid every other team for a player right now. Let the big dogs eat and pick up the scraps they don’t want.
Heck of a start though. If they went 500 I would buy. Just need 1 win out of the next 4. This is a playoff contender and a team that can win in the playoffs. They just really need 2 impact outfield bats.
I love the farm system and very much want to keep it. And not just not destroying it but running max efficiency. I think that if they are patient and flexible they can land a scrap or two without damaging the farm. Even better they get lucky and really get a impact player and one that isn’t a rental.
You’re all over the map these days, Dream. It’s hard to tell if you’re being serious or facetious
I will take this posting at face value, however
That said, you’re setting your bar too low here
It seems that you fall into the “let’s just make the playoffs” crowd. That’s kind of surprising
First off, we have no idea what the plan will be for Skenes and Jones. Second, and as I say every season at the outset, where will the runs come from? See beyond this win streak for a moment and smell the napalm
Next, what is it you see in the minors beyond Termarr? And no, I’m not talking A ball or the Gulf League. They are deep in pitchers. Middle infielders. Hell, they even drafted more shortstops
Are you saying the next power hitting outfielders are in Bradenton?
While I agree about trading prospects for scrap, just what beyond a couple of the pitchers would anyone want?
Yes, all they need are two impact players right now. We just disagree on who they are and how the Pirates could acquire them
I haven’t been brain washed. I won’t let these clueless clown’s off the hook. If they shut Skenes down I won’t accept it. I will ask them why can’t he pitch in the playoffs? Why did you call him up in May instead of June? Why did you let him throw 6 7 innings games? Why did you fail to have a good bullpen? Why did you shut him down for the playoffs when he ended up needing tj anyways. You see the same thing famously happen with Strasburg. It’s time fans wake up and start holding these clowns accountable.
They can trade for anyone they want. Other than Bubba Ashcraft TJ anyone should be available. You don’t see many top 100 prospects being traded. It’s mostly quantity trades. Pirates with Skenes Endy Jones Gonzales Davis graduating are now a quantity system. Skenes Jones Keller Have 1 2 3 on lock down for the decade. Falter Ortiz even Priester look pretty good. 1 of them needs to be traded or moved to the pen. Bubba Ashcraft are ready next year. Oviedo is coming back. They don’t have enough spots for all the elite pitchers. What do you do with the dozen other top 30 pitching prospects? You need depth. Some will be relievers. But they can easily trade some and not miss them. Maybe you sell high on Falter? They have bats at low levels. They have bats at mid levels. Pirates have failed to develop Lonnie White but maybe another team thinks they have the answer. Peguero is expendable almost needs to be traded. He can only play 2b. Gonzales is there. And if you like Gonzales then there is your outfielder. He played outfield in highschool and well. TJ takes 2b. Peguero hates the outfield.
Tired- For once Dream is being serious.
I follow his reasoning which as usual is thoughtful.
I would like to see them add someone like Christian Walker this Fall But we know Nutting too well.
The present euphoria will fade away quickly but credit has to be given where it is due and Cherington and Oscar Marin have done a very fine job in what they have done for the pitching.
Regarding the recent draft every team evidently picks the best athlete because they can move them around and who knows when they are ready whether that same current position need will be there.
My problem with that approach is that at some point in their lower to mid minor league career they have to settle on one or two similar positions or else they are jerking the young player around.
Agreed about Walker. A good add whom they’ll never spend the money on
I get the “take the best athlete available” idea but in a franchise so devoid of outfielders and bonafide power hitters, you’d think they’d refine the thinking a bit
Like I said they just drafted Mike Trout. You can’t draft a better outfielder. Crews Langford were finished products but Griffin is better. They aren’t center fielders. This kids potential is a gold glove center fielder. Kid stole like 86 out of 87 bases this season. The 1 time he got thrown out was stealing home. It’s the Pirates so they draft Jo Adell. Repeat. This is the best outfielder you can draft. Better prospect than Cutch and Meadows. By far. This kid goes in 1st round as a pitcher. He throws 96 mph from the mound, ss and the outfield. Elite talent.
I’ll yield to your knowledge of these things. It’s exemplary
But let’s acknowledge that the Pirates have a difficult time refining the play of position players. If this was the department of a corporation, the CEO would demand answers
They announced Griffin as a SS and he is. But he played outfield his entire career until this year. Played outfield for team usa. There’s questions about his hands and he’s 6 4 210 lbs. He can stick at ss. Even be a plus defender. But he’s an even better outfielder prospect. Only thing more valuable than a cf is a ss so I am rooting for him at ss.
Remember TJ was the best prep hitter scouts have seen in a decade. One scout according to mlb.com said he is a combination if Vlad sr hitting tool with Wade Boggs discipline.
TJ is looking much better after a good but not fantastic start. But if they somehow fail to make him a good player don’t hold your breath on Griffin.
I’m looking forward to seeing this kid progress. That’s a strong description. Hope he pans out
Good talk. I been extremely busy past week so couldn’t chime in much. Pirates are in a great spot. 2 out 3 against Philly! I would have took 1. Would have been a sweep if not for error and if they had this guy m.youtube.com/watch?v=ymPHd3elHhw
Just need 1 win vs cards to tread water. Keller Skenes 2 is not only possible but probable. Why not. Don’t give up on this season mr Nutting. Get Ben working those phones. Look up how much $ you make for each playoff game! Even if you fall short imagine how many season tickets you will sell next year. Give this fan base a reason to believe and your pockets will get even more full. Make the playoffs and you can raise ticket prices more effectively. Are you with me now Mr Nutting? I think I am speaking your language.
Tread water?
They’re 7 out in the NL Central
They’re a half game back in the WC race and go to AZ and Houston after this series
The only teams out of the WC race are Colorado and Miami.
They’re in a tenuous spot, not great spot
They’re now in a stretch against teams ALL in the hunt, all the way through August
What am I missing here?
It’s truly amazing. This is the place for entertainment. You just seen Joe Palacios not only play but start and yet Jazz Winker isn’t a big upgrade!!!!!!!!!!
You guys crack me up. I love you guys.
Forget what I said Mr Nutting. Keep your prospects. Keep your $. This fan base will accept literally anything. No one has cancelled their cable bill. They are still showing up to games. More bobbleheads less baseball players is the secret recipe.
Maybe comprehension isn’t your bag
Upgrading over “ negligible” isn’t much of an upgrade
This is the franchise that brought guys like Blyleven, Madlock, Garner, Van Slyke, AJ, Liriano, Martin and myriad others in for real pennant runs
And you’re suggesting guys like this?
Yeah. Were the ones who are funny
Exactly. Under the radar players who fans didn’t want, complained about and ended up being great. Don’t you want Winker to join that list. That’s right just keep kicking the can down the road. Most fans want to hug the prospects. You go even further saying they don’t have prospects to trade.
Winker is the perfect player by your reasoning. The Pirates don’t have any prospects. And Winker doesn’t help any so it should only cost garbage prospects to aquire. Nothing lost. So might as well get him.
I hope the don’t get him. Pirates fans don’t deserve playoffs. And as much as I fought for him he will tire out or get hurt or something.
Hopefully he goes elsewhere, does awesome and every time Palacios goes 0 for whatever I can update you guys on what Winker did.
I was watching Robbie Hyde’s latest video, someone I think is very intellegent in terms of baseball, and he wanted the Pirates to trade for Jazz and had them giving up Termarr, Ashcraft, Barco, and Suwinski and I told him that is way too much. He insists Jazz is a high value player which I don’t really agree with and that he’s a huge upgrade over Suwinski. If they’d give up all that, I’d want more of a sure thing. Or another player.
Offer that to Oakland for Bleday and Blackburn? Or Rooker? I get Termarr has some question marks but is still very young, tends to get hot for long stretches and has an elite eye at the plate. That’s a big no for me.
Agreed. Did they learn anything from the Archer trade debacle? Hated it then, hate it now. I get that it was a different regime but learning is learning.
I confess. I don’t know enough about Bleday or Rooker. But I do know that giving up prospects just to get a WC berth is folly
Stand pat
Get some prospects for Chapman. See if there’s any market for Grandal or Taylor
Then sign a couple sticks—real sticks—in the off season.
The small market/cry poor mantra doesn’t work anymore
Jazz would be an upgrade, Suwinski & Taylor have a combined 190 average. That just doesn’t cut it, I like Rooker in a trade but that doesn’t solve their CF problem unless they get ballsy & go after 2 bats. This standing pat or trading for someone like Pham has got to stop. They’re wastiing great starting pitching. Skenes just lost pitching first 8 innings giving up 2 hits & 1 run that’s unacceptable. They have 3 young stud SP & Ortiz has very good too. Get the fans excited, make a few trades for controllable players