Giants president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi met with reporters this evening. San Francisco pulled back to .500 with a win over the Diamondbacks tonight, but they missed the playoffs for the fifth time in Zaidi’s six-season tenure. That has led to speculation about his job security — which only ratcheted up in recent weeks amidst conflicting reports about ownership’s role in handling negotiations on Matt Chapman’s $151MM extension.
Zaidi declined to speculate about his job status but acknowledged that ownership is considering its options. “Anytime you have a disappointing season, it’s my job to evaluate everything in my purview, and it’s their job to evaluate everything in my purview, plus me,” the baseball ops leader said (link via Andrew Baggarly of the Athletic). “And so I think that process is happening, and I understand it.”
The Giants and Zaidi agreed to an extension last winter that coincided with Bob Melvin’s hiring as manager. Both the manager and baseball operations leader are on guaranteed contracts for next year with options for the 2026 season. That certainly doesn’t ensure job security — teams regularly dismiss coaches or executives before the end of their deals — but it kept Zaidi from operating on a lame duck basis in 2024.
Any doubt about his status with the organization can’t stop Zaidi from planning the team’s approach to the upcoming offseason. That starts with Blake Snell, who has pitched at a Cy Young level for the better part of four months. The star left-hander is set to decline his $30MM player option and take another shot at a long-term contract.
Zaidi admitted the Giants expect Snell to opt out. He said the Giants will remain in the market but conceded they’ll face stiff competition. “I think it’s going to be a priority for everybody. He’s been the best pitcher in baseball the second half of the season,” Zaidi said of Snell’s market (relayed by Shayna Rubin of the San Francisco Chronicle). “And I think he’s going into free agency the same way he did last offseason. He wants to keep an open mind. We’re encouraged about what he said about how much he likes being here, how much he likes San Francisco and playing for Bob. We’ll be pretty high on his list, but we’re respecting the fact that he’s going to want to play out free agency.”
Snell turns 32 in December. He’ll probably take aim at a six-plus year deal that approaches $200MM. That kind of investment in starting pitching would be out of character for Zaidi. As shown on MLBTR’s Contract Tracker, the Giants haven’t gone beyond the $90MM Logan Webb extension for a starting pitcher. The $62MM guarantee they awarded Snell late last winter is their biggest free agent rotation investment.
The Giants have been much more comfortable with short-term upside plays for starting pitchers who want to retest the market than they are with lengthy commitments. That operating procedure made them a strong fit when Snell’s market didn’t materialize the way he’d envisioned last winter, but it’ll present a challenge to keeping him around. San Francisco was content to let Kevin Gausman and Carlos Rodón walk after striking gold on short-term plays for both pitchers.
If Snell were to depart, Webb would retake his spot as the unquestioned staff ace. He’ll be followed in the rotation by Kyle Harrison and Robbie Ray (who is unlikely to opt out of the $50MM remaining on his contract). The Giants could try to stretch Jordan Hicks back out as a starter while giving opportunities to younger arms like Hayden Birdsong, Landen Roupp and Keaton Winn. They’d surely add to that group in some capacity after dealing with a number of rotation injuries this season.
Zaidi also addressed the position player mix, specifically saying the Giants will “definitely be in the middle-infield market” (via Rubin). Tyler Fitzgerald has had a fantastic rookie season since taking over at shortstop. The Louisville product connected on his 15th homer tonight and is up to a .287/.338/.510 batting line through 325 plate appearances. His 31.1% strikeout rate is cause for some concern, but Fitzgerald’s power and defensive flexibility have earned him a role somewhere on the diamond.
That could come on the other side of the second base bag. The Giants waived Thairo Estrada last month after he hit .217/.247/.343 in 96 games. Estrada will be a minor league free agent at season’s end. Zaidi lauded Estrada’s professionalism and expressed some confidence that the infielder could rebound in another setting, but he indicated the Giants will go in a different direction.
Moving Fitzgerald to second base while bringing in an established shortstop is an option. Willy Adames and Ha-Seong Kim are the potential regulars in the free agent class. Zaidi expressed a desire to add “an established, plus defender in the middle infield” via free agency or trade. Adames and Kim would each fit the bill (although the former has had an uncharacteristic spike in errors this season). Both players are going to decline qualifying offers from their current teams and would require draft pick forfeiture. Adames might command a guarantee north of $150MM, while Kim’s deal could land in the $75-100MM range.
Bo Bichette has been the top speculative shortstop trade target. The Blue Jays didn’t seem inclined to move him even before he went on the injured list just before the deadline. Unless the Toronto front office reverses course, they probably won’t sell low during the winter.
There aren’t a ton of obvious middle infield trade candidates. The Reds may listen on Jonathan India, but he’s not the caliber of defender to which Zaidi alluded. That’s also the case with Tampa Bay second baseman Brandon Lowe. The Pirates would probably listen on Isiah Kiner-Falefa, whose offensive production has cratered since a deadline trade with Toronto. There’s a chance the Mariners could move on from J.P. Crawford as they try to reshape their offense.
A free agent pursuit of Adames or Kim, though, would be more straightforward. That’d allow the Giants to use Casey Schmitt in a utility capacity and potentially free them to play Marco Luciano in the outfield. Zaidi said tonight that they’re not closing the door on Luciano winning the second base job, but they’ll need to see improvement (especially defensively) next spring for that to happen.
One area where the Giants don’t seem inclined to make a long-term play: first base. Zaidi indicated the team was reluctant to make an investment that would impede the path for top prospect Bryce Eldridge, their 2023 first-round pick. Eldridge is still a month shy of his 20th birthday, but he mashed at a .335/.442/.619 clip in High-A. He has made cameos at the top two minor league levels, and while he’s unlikely to break camp next year, Zaidi suggested there’s a path for him to debut at some point in 2025.
“Once a guy is in Double-A, Triple-A, they’re in the picture,” Zaidi said (relayed by Baggarly). “I think it behooves us to have a roster that’s flexible enough that if he’s ready next year, even early in the year, there’s a spot for him. So that’s going to be really important for us. I don’t anticipate us really locking up the first base and DH spot.” There’s a solid group of free agent first basemen, headlined by Pete Alonso and Christian Walker, but that doesn’t appear to be a priority for San Francisco.
Of course, these preliminary plans could go in any number of directions if ownership decides to make a front office change. That should be determined within the next few weeks. Giants fans will want to check out both The Athletic and The Chronicle columns in full for more quotes from Zaidi about his vision for the winter.
SFBay314
6 years. Playoffs once. Not good enough. 500 again.
Needs to go and I was one of his biggest fans. He is good at scouting and drafting. But is too cheap/stubborn to sign the guys we needed. I.e Guasman etc we should have one of the best staffs with the players that have passed through
Gmen777
We really have no proof if that was him or ownership when it comes to pitchers but I think calling the Giants cheap is a tired argument. The Giants have made a quite a few very large offers
SFBay314
What 3+ year deal can you show to a starting pitcher?
Hicks doesn’t count
5TUNT1N
Desclafani sadly…other than that they were always 1-2 year opt out types.
SFBay314
Exactly
Pickle_Britches
What 3+ deal that they did make that panned out for them? If the 2 year contracts don’t work out why go for larger waisted money contracts? Wood, Cobb, Delacafini, Manea, Zoro, Shark, and Peavy. Hicks will end up being a bust too just wait his stuff is below avg and gets tired so easily
allforfunnplay
I think you ‘ve got that backwards. They’ve always been willing to put up big money for big ticket free agents. It’s just no one with options to play with contending teams wants to take their money. And even then the Giants spent money this past off season that put them into the Luxury Tax bracket. On the other had it’s taken until year 7 for Zaidi’s team to push for younger players to come up and develop. Drafting and developing a super star or two should have been the emphasis on day one of Zaidi’s tenue. Instead the Giants clung to aged veterans and acquired veteran free agents role players hoping to spin one into a good player. Oh, they’ll go after the big free agents but that’s as much about marketing (getting butts in the seats) as it is baseball. But of course we know how that goes.
case
They definitely aren’t cheap, but the lack of focus on top of the rotation SP is pretty grim. He’s been trying to budget his way to a decent starting rotation, like the recent A’s and Rays playoff years, but he’s ending up more like the Angels and Reds… a sea of pitching mediocrity that goes nowhere.
And his one playoff win was on the back of a quality SP that was drafted before he got there.
inutero
that’s what the giants get for putting a moneyball guy as a GM, he’s trying to be the rays when he should be like preller or dombrowski. they’re a top 5 market
DJboy28 2
I completely agree that he has been afraid to sign a starting pitcher longer the 2/3 with opt outs but besides last years Manaea, Stripling, Descalfini signings that backfired he has sign some great pitchers in Gausman, Rodon and Snell and actually Manaea has shown this year that he was used last improperly.
johnsilver
Cots has the SFG 40 man payroll at 250m, 6th overall and 3 of the teams above them are within 10m of the SFG. Saying they are cheap sounds like talking points to me, maybe redirecting FA signs and using extensions towards other players (ala the huge Crawford extension) might be better use of funds.
Just throwing out there, but saying the Giants are cheap is wrong and nobody is going to throw out 350m, like the LAD and NYY, ex perhaps the NYM and we can expect that number to fall pretty soon.
JoeBrady
Saying they are cheap sounds like talking points to me,
=======================
That’s the go-to response by casual fans who don’t follow the team much. My very rough calculation is simply to compare attendance with salary rankings.
SFBay314
I have had season tickets for 14 years, I attended 62 games at home this year
Very Barry
All the Giants need to do is run it back with Snell and Logan Webb. Add a bat or two to make sure you get a Wild Card slot, and then ride Snell and Webb in the Playoffs.
Regular Season doesn’t mean anything anymore. All the added Wild Card slots because of the revenue it generates $$$$ has completely changed the game.. Just get a Wild Card slot with two aces and run those dudes out on the bump every chance you get in the playoffs.
rememberthecoop
But the regular season is how you make the tournament, so it does matter. Then, once you get in, it’s a crapshoot.
scottn59c
That was the plan this year, and it didn’t work. It resulted in 4th place in the NL West, which was not good enough for a WC spot. Even if it had been, it would have meant hitting a brick wall as soon as they faced the Dodgers.
Gmen777
@scott59c except Snell was hurt half the season and you can’t go in thinking that happens again. Giants had a ton not go their way this season from Flores and Estrada cratering and a ton of bad umpiring. They also made the mistake of leaving Doval as the closer for way too long and with Walker ascending to being one of the 5 best relievers in baseball that’s already a huge difference for next season.
semut
That’s why he worked so well in LA. He was able to scout basement-dweller talent while Friedman had the wallet. Farhan is too penny-pinchie to control the wallet, it just doesn’t work. Remember when he was asked about his organizational philosophy and he said “No move is too small”?
disadvantage
@SFBay
I mean, 3 of those years were years that should’ve been a rebuild that ownership refused. Name another GM that could’ve turned that around. Likewise, they were more than a few good free agents away from being serious contenders this year or last.
Gausman had been DFA’d prior to the Giants picking him up, had one good year, an outstanding first half, then faded in the second half. In hindsight, he would’ve been worth every penny, but at the time, giving 5 years to a guy who could just as easily revert to his second half version of himself (or worse) could’ve had terrible results.
That said, it is frustrating the Giants have been unwilling to go big on pitching. I am not sure if that is a Farhan thing or the front office being stubborn (as you pointed out), but hopefully they go all in on Snell and maybe another high-end pitcher.
Jean Matrac
SFBay314, Disagree about Gausman. So far, it’s a wash. He’s had 2 decent seasons for the Jays, but not nearly as good as his 2021 with the Giants. This season he’s been barely above league average. $22M is a lot to pay for that. He’s owed $46M for 2025-26. If he continues to be just league average (or worse, as he ages). Zaidi was smart to not match the Jays offer.
Plus, you conveniently omitted Rodon from your post, where Zaidi’s decision to let him walk was a good one. Nobody can see into the future, and even if Gausman bounces back, Zaidi’s philosophy about not spending big on long-term deals for pitchers is defendable.
Gmen777
My gut says he gets 2025 and if results aren’t there him and Melvin are both gone
5TUNT1N
I don’t have any huge issues with bomel I understand I’m not going to agree with every decision a manager makes. The thing that stings a bit is Vogt will surely win AL manager of the year. Let’s not forget the PBO in Detroit now which was in house SF for a few years under Farhan.
semut
Bomel could hardly win in SanDiego with one of the most stacked rosters of our time. Why does everyone think he’s going to turn THIS club around? I just don’t get it.
scottn59c
I think people were enamored with him because he represented the old school (especially after SFG fans were wiping off the stink of Kapler), but had also helmed the analytical, moneyball era A’s. He seemed like a good fit, but he’s made a lot of poor decisions this year, including overusing the bullpen and sitting some of the youngsters like Luis Matos.
inutero
yea, surely they will catapult over the doyers padres and dbacks LOL. pipedream
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
Giants are too old for the playoffs
Jean Matrac
“Giants are too old for the playoffs”
Yeah, that’s the reason.
You should actually do a little research before posting something that’s so completely incorrect. The Giants roster is the 13th youngest in MLB.
The 5 oldest teams are the Astros, Padres, Dodgers, Mets, with the Braves the oldest team in baseball. Clearly a team doesn’t need to be young to make the PS.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
They rely on yaz and conforto and Lamonte and chappy in the top of their order (at least Ramos and Fitzgerald are younger
Granted they aren’t extremely old (especially on the pitching side) but they aren’t stars (Chapman might be one)
However, they are getting younger with no more Alex Cobb and no more Jorge soler (and not giving Wilmer Flores time)
Jean Matrac
Wade was only 30 this season. You think that’s old? Chapman is only 31. Both have a 126 OPS+ this season. Conforto is only 31 as well, but wouldn’t be starting if Matos had stepped up. Unfortunately he regressed, and I blame Pat Burrell for that. But Conforto and probably Yaz will be gone at the end of the season.
Pete'sView
Gmen777 —
I don’t think that’s a particularly out-of-the-box concept, although I’m not sure Zaidi makes it through the off season (though the “inside” word is that Board Chairman Greg Johnson loves the guy.)
Gmen777
@Pete’sView my gut on him staying or going has flipped like five times the past week and I still don’t know what to expect tbh. I kind of want to see his plan play out one last season with a healthy Snell and Lee, full seasons of Fitz and Ramos in the fold and 1-2 new bats. I couldn’t fault the FO if they did get rid of him though I mean only one trip to the playoffs in six years is hardly successful
Rsox
Gabe Kapler and his 25 man (though i guess “person” might be more politically correct) coaching staff are gone and the results haven’t been much better. That said, there does seem to be a nice core building for the Giants but i just don’t think Farhan is the guy to lead them back to the promise land. Say what you will about Sabian but many of his moves worked out usually for the better, you can’t really say that about Zaidi
allforfunnplay
Kapler should have been in charge of the Farm system like he was with the Dodgers. I think that kind of developmental work suits him better than big league Manager.
disadvantage
“Gabe Kapler… (is) gone and the results haven’t been much better”
That is because Kap was never really the problem, but fans loved to think that he was because he made a great scapegoat.
I feel like it’ll be similar if Farhan leaves – without a solid core (although they are trending in the right direction), the team is more than a few flashy free agent signings away from being serious contenders, whether or not Farhan is at the helm.
buya
Zaidi left his heart in LA.
Pete'sView
It’s not his heart that he left somewhere, if he even had them.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
This is complete mere speculation from a guy who watches from afar, but Zaidi comes across as a guy who has no natural ability or afinity for the feel of baseball. It’s almost like he decided at age 25 or 30 or whatever to “analyze the baseball space” and to figure out the enigma of MLB front office management as if it was just another theoretical business paradigm he studied in grad school. Very smart analytical mind, but maybe without the gut feel or instinct to really understand baseball.
its_happening
The best synopsis on Zaidi. This is rampant throughout baseball. We are seeing it on display on the field. He happens to be at the top level.
inutero
that’s exactly what he is. he’s an academic with a PhD in econ from berkely and broke into the league as a sabermetrics nerd. doesn’t know ball at all
bpskelly
Great points and spot on. Just because he’s “smart” doesn’t mean he’s in the right line of work.
Non Roster Invitee
Calling Kim Ng!
Giants78
No thanks. Another statistics nerd who, as Miami’s GM, was less successful than Zaidi has been with SFG. And Zaidi should become a “has been” in SF, and find a job that better suits him.
letitbelowenstein
Should have canned Zaidi long ago. Move on.
gold masters
Note: to bad ohtani didn’t stay with the angels one more year. If he was on the team this year, (only one big bat away) they would have made the playoffs. Houston was catchable.
Winning. When you get out of bed, you are winning.
When you pull the lever, you are winning.
Playing is winning.
To much emphasis on winning.
The dodgers won’t even win the World Series, in 2024. It’s already decided that the padres will win. Who decides that, you tell me!
A great team is going to loose at least 50 games, so how can it be always about winning?
Ohtani could have helped the angels for one more year.
Then, when he could pitch, sign the big contract.
Sho lie ohtani.
Putting anyone on a pedestal, is not a good idea.
What is the reason, ohtani can do what he does? Because he was babe Ruth. It’s the only way. It takes more than one lifetime to master certain levels.
Note: entertainment is not to be taken seriously. Sports is entertainment.
After the Super Bowl is over, within a short time, you will forget who won.
I am a fan of earth, but once I sever the cord, I will not be hanging around here.
Try not to over re act to sports.
It’s easier on your well being to enjoy the other guys accomplishment.
Plus sports are highly rigged.
Does it really matter if your favorite team has a lousy owner. Pick another team, with a better owner.
gold
lesterdnightfly
Stopped reading at “to bad’.
Non Roster Invitee
Me at “to much emphasis on winning”
It’s “too” by the way.
Non Roster Invitee
I stopped at “to much emphasis on winning”
It’s “too” by the way.
scottn59c
I didn’t get nearly as far as the rest of you.
disadvantage
Sir, I believe you accidentally turned the on the microphone on your phone and recorded the conversation at the table next to yours.
DroppedThirdStrike
Worst haiku ever
Mikenmn
Snell comes with the caveat he always has–pitching great but not pitching a lot. Barely over 5 IP per start and that fits with his career. 20 starts, and that also fits with his career. 104 IO–also, fits with his career. 6 years, 200 Million? Do you get 150 starts? 800 IP? Is that worth the expense? It’s like a vintage convertible.
scottn59c
Whether they keep Zaidi or not, it will be interesting to see what SF does this offseason. They’re more than an Adames or Kim from another year of .500 mediocrity.
The field already feels pretty crowded. Yaz can be non-tendered, and they need a lights-out SS. They also need a better b/u catcher to spell Bailey. Wear could also be a real issue for the overused guys in the bullpen, too.
But probably, the real money needs to be spent on pitching again. Too much credence was given to the youngsters this year, none of whom really distinguished themself. Once again, the rotation is shaping up to look like Webb + ? Harrison is a lock, but everyone else should probably be depth or a committee of 5th starters. I don’t know how much faith to put in Ray, who was not good this year in his limited appearances.
Pete'sView
I think you’re being shortsighted about SF’s pitching which I think will continue to improve. I wouldn’t count on Robbie Ray, but the Giants have some terrific young arms besides Harrison. Birdsong, Roupp, Winn and Beck for instance. And let’s not forget Carson Whisenhunt.
The Giants major issue is offense. They need AT LEAST one middle of the order bat (Adames?).
scrambledeggs
What are the Giants upper management waiting for? Farhan is a clown. He missed out on signing so many big name players. Can’t even get the team to 500. Fire him immediately!
Old York
Back in my day, we had a manager who actually knew the game instead of some suit in an office throwing around contracts like they’re playing cards
slugbernie
Farhan is .500 at his best. This franchise is better than.500. Our Farm is not any better and the team is worse. The only good Free Agents that will come here get to opt out. We are tiered of this act. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass Farhan!
Pete'sView
Fact: After 6 years the Zaidi regime has produced the 23rd (out of 30 teams) farm system. That’s deplorable!
Jean Matrac
Pete, Prospect rankings are unreliable. Farm rankings are based on FV as well as the number of top 100 prospects. Plenty of top 100 guys fail. Then there are guys like Brandon Crawford, who was never a top 100 prospect. Neither was Pablo Sandoval, Rich Aurilia, or Jeff Kent. Also, Jose Ramirez, Robinson Cano, Jim Edmonds, and Jacob deGrom, were never ranked as a top 100 prospect.
And look at the guys Zaidi has drafted: Kyle Harrison, Hayden Birdsong, Landen Roupp, Mason Black, Tyler Fitzgerald, Grant McCray, Casey Schmitt, and Patrick Bailey.
Not all those guys will be productive players, but 2 things stand out to me. There is some potential there, and they’re all very young. It’s too soon to classify his drafting as a failure.
Scan through the MLB drafts year by year since 2019, and see how many better players were passed up by the Giants. There are a few, but also notice all the other teams that also passed up on these guys as well.
I Believe We Can Win
Giants are fixable but going to take some work.
They’re set at 3B with Chapman
Off season sign Kim from the Padres for ss
2B give it to Schmitt
1B they’re fine with Wade Jr
OF wise
Ramos in RF
I’d move Fitzgerald to CF see if he can make the transition like Merrill
Id trade Yastrzemski or keep him as a 4th OF let Conforto walk and bring in Bellinger as your new LF
I’d bring in Hoskins or Martinez to be the DH
Pitching wise
Webb, I’d QO snell but take the pick, sign Flaherty (no QO), sign Lorenzen (no QO), sign Nick Martinez to be a swing pen multiple inning guy, and sign some RP.
Jean Matrac
Too soon to just give 2B to Schmitt. He’s had a good season, looking much better at the plate, but that was a low bar. But 2024 is still a small sample. ML teams don’t give guys 2B, after a rough start like 2023, and only 37 games/100ABs of improvement.
Fitzgerald in CF is a waste with Lee coming back. Yaz won’t bring back much in trade. He’s a non-tender candidate, plus there’s too many young OFers to fill the 4th guy role.
Bellinger? The Cubs spent $27.5M for production only 10% better, by wRC+, than league average. Zaidi would be fired if he gambled on Bellinger and lost, and I’d join the call for his ouster.
Martinez already said he didn’t want to play in SF. Hoskins’ season has been below league average. And Snell cannot he given a QO. SD QO’d last season.
They have Webb, Ray, Harrison, Birdsong, Hicks, Beck, Roupp, Winn, and Mason, as potential SPs. I’d also start calling for Zaidi to be fired if he gave multiple years to guys like Flaherty, whose career has been inconsistent, or a 33 year Lorenzen, whose had a slightly above average career.
I Believe We Can Win
You’d rather have .261/.310/.331 Jung Ho Lee manning CF rather than Tyler Fitzgerald and his bat plus Kim at ss with elite defense and league average bat? Alright.
Bellinger isnt going to cost 27.5 mill a year for reasons you stated. But definitely represents an overall upgrade esp defensively compared to other.
Jean Matrac
It’s ridiculous to compare their slash lines from small samples. You’re completely ignoring the fact that Jung Hoo Lee came to MLB completely unfamiliar with every pitcher he faced, and every park he played in, including his home park. It was no surprise that his early numbers weren’t great. I can guarantee you, no matter whether they fire Zaidi, and/or Melvin. Lee will be in CF in 2025, and Fitzgerald won’t.
I Believe We Can Win
So what evidence do you have he’s ready to face mlb pitching and will improve upon his rookie season? Hope?
Do the Giants have time for him to figure it out?
So run back the subpar under .500 team. Sound plan.
CF Fitzgerald SS Kim > CF Lee SS Fitzgerald
Jean Matrac
What evidence do you have that he won’t. Neither one of us knows for sure one way or the other. There are precedents for both scenarios to occur.
My point was it’s far too early to say Fitzgerald will be better in CF than Lee. You’re basing your opinion on small samples. Watch who actually plays there full time next season.
I Believe We Can Win
Hopes and dreams work in movies.
Jean Matrac
Hoping is the MO of the person making big predictions based on small samples. You’re the one hoping Fitzgerald is better than Lee based on insufficient data. Dreaming, if right, that it will prove you’re the better one at seeing into the future. I’m not hoping for anything. Just waiting for there to be enough data to have a better, more informed view.
I Believe We Can Win
“Insufficient data”
The data we have now says Fitzgerald is better than Lee. You’re ignoring the data available saying Lee should start cause feelings. That’s about it. His performance says he’s suited for a 4th OF role until he proves otherwise. Sorry to burst your bubble man. Lee is the Korean version of Trent Grisham.
You’d hope there’d be some underlying data to hope for improvement like super low babip but no his was right around average.
Jean Matrac
I’m guessing you’re new to baseball, since anyone that that’s followed baseball for any length of time knows the drawbacks of small samples. The 37 games that Lee played is a small sample. Small sample = insufficient data.
Fitzgerald has a larger sample, but history shows even one entire season can be misleading. But there are troubling factors with Fitzgerald’s stats. Too many SOs. He strikes out in 31.4% of his ABs, while Lee Ks only 8.2%. League average is 22.7%. Fitzgerald doesn’t put the ball play very well, 57% to a league average of 64%. Lee puts the ball in play 84% of the time. Lee has better numbers in exit velocity and hard hit %, than Fitzgerald.
Those stats show Fitzgerald to be a poor leadoff guy. Lee profiles as the almost perfect leadoff guy, which the Giants need. I like Fitzgerald, but his season has been up and down, he’s very streaky. I hope he can cut down on his Ks, be a little more selective, getting more BBs, and become more consistent.
Again, it’s too early to be sure of anything regarding Lee due to the small sample. Lee’s numbers are encouraging, but again, undependable. It would be a mistake though to assume Fitzgerald will be better in CF than Lee.
I Believe We Can Win
So no evidence Jung Hoo Lee will be better than what he’s shown so far.
Jean Matrac
“So no evidence Jung Hoo Lee will be better than what he’s shown so far.”
Correct. But it goes both ways There’s also, no evidence that Lee won’t be better going forward, either. You seem to forget that Lee was extensively scouted playing in Korea. And the Giants’ sabermetrics department looked much deeper into his numbers than either you or I have, The Giant’s didn’t give him that contract based on hoping and dreaming.
Pete'sView
I can’t even begin to tell you how some of your takes aren’t even possible. Or that you’ve forgotten who will play CF for the Giants next year. Time for more study.
I Believe We Can Win
I didn’t forget. You seem to have forgotten Jung Ho Lee was completely lost at the plate batting .261/.310/.331 good for OPS+ of 86.
Point is to improve the lineup. Not keep running out scrubs.
Pickle_Britches
Ummm no lol. They need to resign Snell, sign Alonso and Beiber. Get rid of Luciano while he has some value and sign Goldy and they’ll be fine. Ray will be better next year and I think Birdsong will too. Maybe sign Gleyber or Adames
Jean Matrac
Your post sounds like a recipe for disaster. When Zaidi took over he had to rid the team of a bunch of aging vets on bloated contracts. Now you’re suggesting they should put themselves back into that same scenario.
Snell and Adames are the only ones worth signing, and what they’ll cost should be factored into the decision whether to or not. Why in the world would they overpay for Alonso, or go after the declining Goldschmidt? Alonso would block Bryce Eldridge and they have a better hitting 1B in Wade (126 OPS+) than Goldschmidt (95 OPS+).
Big no on Torres., Fitzgerald is younger and better.
You’re probably one of those people that declared Heliot Ramos a bust based on a small sample. Luciano looks like Ramos 2 years ago when Ramos was the same age as Luciano is now. Luciano has played in all of 41 games at the ML level.
Pickle_Britches
Goldy has had a down year I would bet he would be better than Wade next year. I mean he can’t seem to play a full season anyway plus he’s a bench player on any competitive team. Id take belt over him lol. Fitzgerald hasn’t played a full season yet plus he can play OF, Torres can play 2nd. Luciano is overrated lol. Crazy he was ranked so high based on his signing amount. Like good ol Angel Villanova. He has premium power and signed for all this money so he must be a beast. Lol
Jean Matrac
What’s with all the lols? It makes you sound like a teenage newbie.
Betting on a rebound for a guy coming off a down year, and entering his age 37 season, is not a safe bet. That’s precisely when most player’s aging curve starts to take a dive.
Over the last 2 seasons Goldschmidt has averaged a 107 OPS+, while over that time Wade has averaged a 122 OPS+. Yes, Wade doesn’t play full time, but over the last 2 seasons Goldschmidt has averaged only 28 more games. I’d gladly take that bet. Wade will be better than Goldschmidt.
Wade doesn’t play full time because he gets platooned. But this season Wade has hit LHPs better than Goldschmidt has hit RHPs. The only way Goldschmidt does better than Wade is if he starts getting platooned. His .675 OPS against righties would justify doing that.
It’s a rookie mistake to declare any player overrated, or a bust, who’s only 22, and has played all of 41 games in the MLs. You probably declared Heliot Ramos a bust 2 years ago.
It’s debatable whether Torres can play 2B. Over his career he has -15 DRS, and -24 OAA. Standing at the position with a glove doesn’t mean he can play there. Since the Giants have declared the need to play better defense, Torres would be a curious choice. Especially since he’s not that special with bat, averaging only 13% above league average by wRC+. Not worth the concrete glove he brings. If he was anything special the NYYs wouldn’t let him walk.
Forebill
This was a playoff team at the end of July but the SF offense, already not good, went completely into hibernation in August. Pitching and defense win championships, but scoring runs gets a team to the playoffs. If SF had held it own in August this article wouldn’t exist.
Fox News is more resposible for SF not having impact bats than Farhan. But only partially, LA and NY are bigger shitholes than SF. SF has a reputation throughout the industry for treating its prospects like crap. That reputedly is changing, new fancy facility in AZ and coaching throughout the org. But a reputation doesn’t change overnight.
I’d let the contract play out. The recent prospects have outshown the previous FO’s prospects by miles. Posey, Lincecum, and MadBum were all high picks. Farhan is getting better return on lower picks.
Pete'sView
“SF has a reputation throughout the industry for treating its prospects like crap.” — where’d you get that?
Forebill
From a kid who was grateful SF didnt draft him.
JayRyder
Fire Him. Move on.
Rich Stevens
You forgot about Lee for CF!!!
Pete'sView
He forgot about a lot of things. Not a well thought out or researched post from I “Believe We Can Win”
Pickle_Britches
Who? Lol I doubt he will be better than McCray would be. They messed up signing him to almost double what Bryan Reynolds got.
Informed Sportsball Discussion
I am still not convinced the Pads will offer Kim the QO. That is a $20 million gamble I would not make. It is just a draft pick.
But I am convinced the mutual $7 million option or whatever it is in a nonstarter. Pads won’t even bother picking it up on their end.
Guess we’ll see.
Pete'sView
Despite his glove, Kim’s bat is pretty meh. He is not what the Giants need.
swinging wood
Not the best looking dude around.
scottn59c
Who cares?
Non Roster Invitee
That’s why Kennedy beat Nixon in the televised debates.
scottn59c
Yeah, and if my uncle had wheels and pedals, he’d be a bicycle.
KHE
it was Posey who closed the deal on Chapman while Zaidi drug his feet. Sounds to me like Zaidi is already making excuses as to why we won’t go after anyone, and sign has beens for a cheaper / shorter term contracts. As long as LA is willing and allowed to spend $1b plus on free agents, no one else in the West will have a chance, period !! Sorry, but Zaidi needs to go and replace him with Posey !!
scottn59c
From what I read, Zaidi was in the hospital with an undisclosed illness during the Chapman deal. Whatever was ailing him, he was still very much past of the dealmaking. Both Zaidi and Boras denied the narrative that Posey QB’d the deal by himself (which really doesn’t make a whole lot of sense anyways when you think about it).
I can’t say for certain, but I don’t think Posey has ambitions to be POBO. He was a quiet leader and is a family man, and I think he prefers to work behind the scenes. He has to want to take that role, and I’ve seen no real indication that he does.
SF seems like a good fit for Kim Ng, as it’s a more liberal state that would have an easier time embracing a female POBO in a men’s game.
Giants78
Maybe Zaidi is no longer healthy enough for the job. Miami had less success under Ng than SFG has had with Zaidi.
Pete'sView
That doesn’t make Ng the choice for the job.
scottn59c
Course not. But it does get her a look.
Enregistre
And she’s meriting of a look. She has the experience and built a bad team into a playoff team in the course of three years, so a better track record of success than some other current GMs like Jed Hoyer, who has never made a postseason. Then of course the flounderers like Zaidi, Atkins, Krall, Forst, Minasian, and Schmidt in Colorado.
Fernando Ringworm Jr.
Should have traded or waived Snell. And don’t try it with “ThEy WaNt To SiGn HiM !”
scottn59c
They should have! But remember that he was largely injured and not good during the first half. He only had a couple weeks’ worth of dominance by the deadline, at which time the Giants were still fringe contenders. He was likely worth more to them then than whatever offers they were getting.
Non Roster Invitee
Farhan said the Giants still had a good chance at the playoffs after the trading deadline.
The teams with the best records in MLB post All-Star break are Padres, Diamondbacks and Dodgers. All three in the N.L. West!
Farhan and the Giants never had a chance..
Since they were eliminated on Thursday, the Giants have not lost.
LOL.
Fernando Ringworm Jr.
The Giants had no chance at the playoffs.
Fernando Ringworm Jr.
Enyel de los Santos would have been worth more to the Giants than Snell because at least ELDS wasn’t a pending FA lol
Pete'sView
Nonsense. The Giants were never close to securing a playoff spot, but Farhan thought a team could win even without an offense.
If the Giants wanted Snell in the offseason they could have gone after him, just as they’ll have to do this winter.
Giants78
Mr. Zaidi acts like he’s managing a fantasy league, e.g. signed Soler to a 3 year deal, then traded him away at mid season. After 6 years, his style of not committing to players is not working in SF.
Pickle_Britches
Right when they should of just kept Joc and Yaz is just as good as Soler. Zhadi hasn’t been anything but a failure with the money he had to deal with on making the team better. Sale and Wacha he didn’t consider but signing Hicks to a 3 year deal and hasn’t thrown more than 80inn? Don’t make sense. I get that he touches 100 but so does Joe Kelly
Humm bumms
I’m not sure it’s completely on Farhan and would let the rest of his contract play out.
I would go after Adames and move Fitzgerald to 2nd, sign Snell or Burnes and Teoscar Hernandez for 2-3 years. Tibbs can take over for him a little down the road. Keep McCray as your extra outfielder and bid farewell to Yaz. Keep Wade until Eldridge is ready
jvent
Would the Giants trade Kyle Harrison and a relief pitcher for Jett Williams, Marte and a minor leaguer ?
Jean Matrac
I’d say no. With Zaidi’s aversion to signing FA pitchers, I think he needs to hold on to the young pitching he has. And from I read, Jett Williams may not stick at short, and if he does, he needs further development. The Giants want an established SS for 2025. And, they’re set in CF with Lee, and McCray. And also have other guys, like Fitzgerald, Matos, and even Ramos, to fill in there if necessary
sfjackcoke
SFG ownership should have been doing their review a long time ago, if a change was to be made it should have happened weeks ago. The front office can’t be in transition so close to the off-season, not this off-season in particular.
I don’t take issue with Melvin, he was being himself which he was brought here to do AKA don’t be Kapler. Honestly after all the pitching went down early in the year, you could argue Melvin, gave this season “a chance” and in typical Giants fashion they weren’t sellers because you miss all the chance you don’t take. I agree largely with that philosophy and in particular with not trading Snell, Chapman and good riddance Soler.
Not helping Farhan/Melvin publicly is WTF are they doing with Luciano. I get SF is historically tight lipped about these matters but to the public eye Luciano is on a Joey Bart roadmap. Given Bart’s success at his next stop, this is horrible deja vu happening in front of our eyes.
McCray is playing mostly every day which is good for when he returns to Sac in 2025 so he can play every day as Lee is the everyday guy. But so too should have 26yo Encarnacion, and Luciano even if the latter is just DH’ing. Kudo’s to Yaz and Conforto being professionals and finishing strong but they are known commodities and while SF has control of Yaz for one more year if they choose, the AB’s given to Conforto are simply wasted.
If Wade needs off-season surgery get that done now, he wasn’t right in his return from the IL. A “right” Wade who can also get back to taking some reps in the OF is worthy of a roster spot in 2025, a 1B only is not, Giants roster requires power from that position.
Jean Matrac
sfjackcoke, A comparison of what’s happening with Luciano to Ramos, is probably a better one than with Bart. In his first 2 years Ramos played in only 34 games with the Giants. Luciano, so far has played 41.
Bart was rushed to the MLs in the 2020 season. Though Bart played only 33 games, it’s difficult to compare the short 2020 to other seasons. But Bart played the majority of games between him and 3 other catchers. Players at the catching position are the slowest to reach the majors than any other position. Bart being a catcher was hurt more than the other 2 by the lack of a MiL season that year.
Bart wasn’t ready then, just as Luciano isn’t now, and Ramos wasn’t last season. They brought Ramos along slowly, just as they’re doing now with Luciano.
Pickle_Britches
Bart is a new fan favorite in Pittsburgh. They gave up on him to early because they had Bailey. His D is premium but his bag is cheeks. Just like having Crawford at SS. 7th hitter in the lineup that you don’t expect much from at the plate but the glove made up for it. Luciano was never that good coming up through the minors. I suspect he’ll be a dud like Arroyo
sfjackcoke
The parallel I was drawing to Bart was at MLB level the power vanished and the same could be said of Luciano in his SSS. That said if he’d flashed power he’d be DH right now. As for Bart, they didn’t give up on him, they failed to develop him to where they chose to pay Murphy free agent $$$ to be the backup vs let RH bat Bart be the backup.
Luciano is a bat first guy who would have much more value on the dirt as opposed to the OF. Only the Giants thought he was a SS and left him there now what can be said without question was too long. 3rd base is easier a transition for many SS as the you’re still on the left side of the field the ball comes off the bat more similarly. That of course isn’t an option with Chapman in the fold long term.
2nd base is a mirror to SS everything is backwards and requires repetition, I hope those that helped JD Davis really turn his glove around in 2023 are still with the team, By keeping him at 2nd the bat doesn’t need to play up as much right away as opposed to the OF. Also just because he’s not the “everyday SS” doesn’t mean he can’t play it as a backup.
Lastly Luciano is far superior a prospect to Arroyo, with a far higher ceiling. He’s still only 23 but the Giants need him to work out even if it takes him a season or two vs following the Bart path.
Pickle_Britches
Both Luciano and Arroyo were overrated. Luciano his a 1 tool player. No speed, no tier D, supposedly he has power during BP but hasn’t translated over. Hit tool is avg and struggles against comp. Below 700 ops vs top 100 talent
sfjackcoke
100% disagree, Arroyo was an end of the 1st rounder who carved out a career as an MLB bench player. He was never a high ceiling guy, top 10 pick or top 10 prospect.
Luciano turned 23 2 weeks ago, your use of the word “were” suggests you think he’s already a bust which might be the most uninformed post I’ve seen on MLBTR in a very long time. Trying to “scout” using statcast data is almost as scouting the stat line.
If there’s over-rating it’s by the general public who gobble up prospect media rankings without understanding how the rankings work, where age/age in relation to level play a huge role on top of tools. The number of guys who don’t make it or don’t stick is very high.
Fans of team look at their prospects in a bubble, let’s take Bart for example, Mize was picked #1 in front of him and this is his career to date baseball-reference.com/players/m/mizeca01.shtml
AllAboutBaseball
Disappointed seasons plural
Pickle_Britches
Giants prospects seem to K too much and not be able to draw many walks. That’s a recipe for failure. Now that the league has figured out Ramos and Fitzgerald since the AS break they’ve been terrible. Let’s see how they adjust next year but Fangraphs early on said Ramos has low barrels and was getting lucky hits. Not many talent in the upper minors other than Eldridge. Weak farm ranked close to 20th-24th out of 30. I doubt they will be able to compete unless they sign some solid FA
spectaculer187
Kim would Gobble up the One year 19 million dollar contract So Fast!
TtheG
Farhan… Kapler… TONS of coaches… we have seen a lot of new age wild and whackey… let’s swing back the other way and get a hard ass AGGRESSIVE old school culture starting at the gm level
bkasser
In my view one of the biggest challenges with Farhan is just his communication style with the media and fan base. He’s obviously a brilliant baseball mind, no doubt there. But when addressing the team’s under-performance, he tries to explain the minutiae details to the fan base, versus addressing the broader more top down issues consistently undermining the team’s performance – poor situational hitting, basic lapses on defense, a complete lack of speed and athleticism, pitchers not holding runnings on, the massive performance decay of many players in the season’s second half versus the first half – just the basics that top tier teams all seem to excel at. It’s fine we want/need to add great SS, etc, and we all know he will do this to the best of his ability – he’s a respected, smart baseball executive. But the message to the fan base should be that this is obviously currently a lower tier mlb team for the 3rd straight year, and to fix that a lot of things have to be much much better on a broader team wise basis. I just wish he would address the media and the fan base with that level of broader top down team level candor, versus try to explain his vision around every individual move.
Jean Matrac
bkasser, I agree with a lot of what you say, but disagree with other things. I completely agree about the lack of good play on the field; the situational hitting, defensive lapses, etc., except that they do not have “…a complete lack of speed and athleticism…”. Some have exceptional speed, like McCray, and Fitzgerald. Some have above average speed, like Yaz, and Chapman. Even Ramos has surprising speed. Guys like McCray, Yaz and Chapman do not lack for athleticism.
The other thing I somewhat disagree about is Zaidi’s communication. I think that’s a nothing burger. I know fans care, but fans are irrelevant. As long as the communication is good between Zaidi and the dugout, and with ownership, I don’t think it matters.
Zaidi is not responsible for the on-field problems you cite. I think that falls on the manager and the coaches. I don’t know how much falls on Melvin, but he should be responsible for the coaches he brought in. I’m wondering if there will coaching changes this offseason. I’ll be disappointed if there aren’t.
DarrenDreifortsContract
Zaidi was supposed to be a genius and the next Theo Epstein lol.
TellItGoodbye
He’s being let go Monday.
bkasser
Jean, awesome points above. I stand corrected on the “athleticism” comment, that was not fair to many on the team (though I would like to see the team be more dynamic on the base paths). I do stand by my communication view – fans do matter, this is a community asset. When the communication and relationship goes bad between the two, situations like the A’s in Oakland develop. The Giants are one of our prize asses in SF, and I think a better communicator can have impact on the overall relationship (like Buster did from the start yesterday). Does it mean you automatically win? Absolutely not – winning is super hard and fans need to be fully realistic about that fact. But you can at least get everyone on board to the plan when striving for this common goal.