The Cardinals have made zero trades this offseason. Two months ago, that would've been a huge surprise. President of baseball operations John Mozeliak declared at the end of the season that the team would cut MLB payroll and give consistent reps to younger players. Seven of MLBTR's Top 35 trade candidates entering the winter were Cardinals.
All of them remain Cardinals with less than a month until pitchers and catchers report. They're not all analogous situations. In at least three cases, the Cards themselves were probably taken aback. Willson Contreras told the team he had no interest in waiving his no-trade clause. Sonny Gray has also expressed an interest in staying rather than waiving his own no-trade rights. Nolan Arenado is reportedly more open to moving, though he used his no-trade clause to kill a potential trade to Houston.
Mozeliak has openly stated the organization is trying to deal Arenado. The baseball operations leader has called that the simplest way to get the team's payroll where they want it to be. That could still come together, but it has proven tougher to orchestrate than the front office seemingly envisioned. The Astros have already moved on. Other teams are reportedly balking at taking a big portion of the $64MM remaining on the third baseman's contract. Katie Woo of The Athletic wrote last week that talks on Arenado had stalled.
Those instances are beyond Mozeliak's control beyond the fact that he was willing to include no-trade clauses in Contreras' and Gray's free agent deals. (Arenado received his NTC from the Rockies when he signed his extension in 2019.) The front office probably expected those veterans would be eager to move rather than waiting out one or more transitional seasons. In that sense, the Cards are in an unenviable spot.
The most perplexing part of their offseason is that they haven't made any moves in response to those roadblocks. Their offseason has consisted of buying out Kyle Gibson, Lance Lynn and Keynan Middleton while claiming depth reliever Bailey Horn off waivers. That needs to change between now and Opening Day.
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There’s nothing more embarrassing than being at half-measure…
Osuna, Bratt, Foscue for Helsley should work for both teams.
Ownership should be embarrassed but they don’t care. They may finally pay attention when they only sell 10K seats a game for this year. Ownership blaming the fans for not going to games will backfire in a huge way.
I’m Not a MO fan but what is he supposed to do with any of this.
He is supposed to trade Arenado. That’s his one job right now.
How is what the Cardinals are doing different than many other teams in the league?
Guardians
Twins
Padres
Mariners
Braves
Reds
All are teams that are potential playoff teams that have done pretty much nothing this offseason.
Nobody really thought the Cardinals were going to trade away all those players except the writers here who have a built in bias.
I am not impressed with the Cardinals offseason. But they aren’t the only ones sitting on their hands. This is not unique to the Cardinals. Why you guys keep pretending it is I don’t know.
You are one of the few Cardinal fans that I have heard who think that the team is not trying to rebuild. Call it reset or whatever but they want to get considerably younger and cheaper. If they cannot trade Arenado look for the team to move Donovan, Fedde, Matz, and Helsley to achieve their goals not in that order. They are at a lower payroll but clearly not low enough.
If the team was trying to rebuild why hasn’t it traded anyone? It’s the middle of January what exactly are they waiting for?
How do you know what the payroll goal is? You don’t. You don’t have a clue.
BITA, to this point they have not resigned any of their free agents which has reduced payroll quite a bit. Goldy, Gibson, Lynn, Kittredge, Carpenter not returning has dropped payroll significantly. They have nor traded anyone to date because thus far they either could not (NTC), and they are still working the Arenado move which I think will happen eventually after Bregman signs with a team. If they cannot move Arenado then others will go most likely. If they are competitive this year it will be because of the NL Central teams being equally non- competitive. You are right about one thing, I haven’t a clue what their projected payroll will be and I am not sure that MO knows today either.
Arenado is being shopped because he asked to be traded not because the team is trying to save money.
The free agents weren’t that great. No big loss.
We think they’re trying to reset because they said so.
There is no proof that Arenado asked to be traded. And he has since vetoed the one trade brought to him. Apparently he either wants the absolute perfect situation or he won’t go.
There isn’t 100% proof Arenado asked to be traded but it’s about as close as it gets. And he asked to be traded from the Rockies so asking to be traded again would not be a surprise at all.
I agree he’s wants the perfect situation which is the Dodgers.
“We have 100% conjecture that Arenado asked to be traded”
Tim – Of course you are 100% correct, and all but one person here gets it. Unfortunately you can’t rationalize with the irrational.
You have the patience of a saint!
Upvote #21.
Your “bias” assertion is about as much of a reach as you’re assuming Arenado wants to be traded. They are absolutely trying to dump that salary.
If they are trying to dump salary how come they haven’t dumped salary yet? It’s the middle of January when does this fire sale start? Be specific.
@Joel When and where did Arenado ask to be traded?
Considering you, someone who doesn’t even watch the sport is one of few who views them as a “potential playoff team” that says it all.
@Joel Do you grasp how “no trade clauses” work?? They have tried to trade and lower salary. Making these trades is not completely their choice.
The team has repeatedly said they are not rebuilding.
Reset
Not necessarily trying to win
Going young
And not rebuilding. Reset =/= rebuild.
The a’s have been saying that for years lol so have the pirates although the pirates are probably better then the cardinals this year
This reset though has included letting free agents walk, and non tendering Adam Kloffenstein. The non tender was surprising
They can’t trade Grey, Contreras, or Mikolas or I believe they might be rebuilding. It’s surprising Arenado is still in STL from the way they talked
Lololol they are not trading Donovan
Only people unfamiliar with the org think Donovan could be traded. People who know how they work know that Donny isn’t going anywhere.
He could go somewhere isn’t aaa still an option
@ BITA. It’s not just the inactivity. The context in which the Cardinals are doing nothing is different from the other clubs other than the Reds. The Twins, Braves, Guardians, M’s, and Padres all figure to be in the mix for making the postseason. Maybe the Reds will be, too, but that’s more doubtful. The Cardinals probably aren’t even a .500 team, so they’re paying for a roster they shouldn’t be paying for. That’s their business, but it really is odd. The other clubs certainly deserve criticism, but for a different reasons. They should be trying to improve, but haven’t.
That’s nonsense.
The only difference is Mozeliak said payroll would go down. Other owners haven’t been so forthcoming. Mozeliak said it and then this site ran with that quote and made wild assumptions.
Why would the Cardinals not be a 500 team? They have lots of talent. The guys they lost to free agency weren’t that good.
My point is numerous teams aren’t having a good offseason. It’s not unique to the Cardinals.
I don’t understand the pessimism around the roster. There are clearly good pieces to build on and some interesting prospects on the way (Wetherholt, Davis, Matthews, Robberse, Hence).
I think people are negative because guys like Walker, Libby, and Gorman haven’t worked out even though it was thought they would be core players.
Specifically to those 3 Liberatore needs a legit opportunity. And Walker and Gorman need a good hitting coach. There is a lot of talent Matthews might be a stud. There are teams that need to rebuild the Cardinals are not one of them.
We did not make wild assumptions. We took them at their word.
What word?
Go back and watch that press conference. The same one where Mozeliak said payroll is going down. Repeatedly DeWitt said he thinks the team can compete in 2025. Not one time does anyone say rebuild or anything like it. Watch it.
Liberatore is meant to be a reliever. Andre Pallante and Michael McGreevy should be in the rotation.
Starting pitching is a weakness. Other than Kittredge I think they can replace what they have lost in house. With that said they won’t be a contender without spending on some upgrades.
By midseason the rotations top 3 will be Gray, Matthews and Fedde. That’s not that bad. And there are plenty of other guys to round out the back end of the rotation.
I don’t think spending is that important. If the team could get the young guys to play better that would help a lot and that’s the plan.
@BITA
You are right about what DeWitt said. No argument.
But consider this for just a second: Bill DeWitt is an old, rich, powerful, and proud man. He has enjoyed a lot of success as the Cardinals owner. He is used to getting praise from the media and fans alike. This is really the first time he has come under fire. I tend to believe his comments about the Cardinals being competitive were more of an emotional response to people questioning the team’s direction than an actual statement of fact. I think Mo came there to drop the bomb about a change in philosophy and he got overshadowed by his boss who isn’t use to criticism.
.
The team won 83 freaking games last year. Saying the team can compete isn’t some fantasy theory pulled from the sky the team was competing last year. The free agents are replaceable they weren’t that good in 2024. If the young players step up the team can be good and thats why the focus is on player development.
When I hear “player development”, I tend to believe they are talking about minor league player development. Meaning their goals are a little more long term. I’m not saying they have given up on Gorman, Walker, etc, I just think the emphasis is on not repeating the mistakes that stalled their development.
When I hear player development and then they don’t bring back all the old players who are free agents that tells me they want to give young guys more opportunity. McGreevy is overdue for a chance. Liberatore has never had a real shot. They handled Walker poorly. Gorman needs a hitting coach. There is talent they need to maximize it.
Almost no owner is going to say out loud he thinks his team won’t compete, so that’s meaningless.
DeWitt said: “The message is: we’re going young.”
Mo said: “We’re not focusing on necessarily building the best possible roster we can,” a rare admission for a GM.
I assume they were surprised they’ve been unable to trade Gray, Arenado, and Contreras.
Their statements still strongly implied trades of impending free agents like Fedde and Helsley.
I’m not an expert, but I can spot Liberatore’s curveball really early in his delivery. Until Liberatore solves that, I doubt he will excel at the MLB level even though his “stuff” is not bad..
Andre Pallante was great last year. He appears to be a cheap, controllable number 3-4 starter.
It is worse because they do have some money coming in from the TV deal. Not a ton, but enough to make smart upgrades in a poor division where contention is always possible.
The Cardinals literally said they’re not necessarily trying to win and that they’re going young. Those other teams didn’t say those things. Holding Fedde and Helsley makes no sense in light of their comments.
When on earth did they say they are not trying to win?
Watch the press conference where Mozeliak says payroll is going down. I sure did and I assume you did too because you sure know he said it. Repeatedly old DeWitt says he thinks the team can compete. Nowhere in that press conference does anyone say rebuild.
The team didn’t make as much money as they expected last year with the tv deal issues and a drop in attendance. That’s why payroll is dropping not because they are rebuilding.
stltoday.com/sports/professional/mlb/cardinals/car…
DeWitt said: “The message is: we’re going young.”
Mo said: “Yes, this is going to be where we’re not focusing on necessarily building the best possible roster we can.”
You and I have different interpretations of those comments.
Not sure what you’re on about rebuilding, as no one said they used that word. They pointedly used the word “reset.”
I would say it means the team isn’t focused on simply 2025 they are focusing on the long term as well. No more old guy band aids like Lynn and Gibson and Happ and Lester and Molina and Wainwright and Pujols and Carpenter all the other old guys they have employed the last few years.
Mo said they would be better than people expect at the Winter Meetings. No one expects them to go for blue chip FA’s or trades, but they simply are not rebuilding. They simply haven’t renewed deals for outgoing FA’s and are planning on most of that playing time going to young players. It’s a modest plan, but not a rebuilding plan since established players with value are still with the team and it is January.
Exactly Wagner
The team wants to focus on developing the young talent they have and giving the young talent a chance to play. And most Cardinals fans would tell you that’s long overdue. The team had become a haven for old dudes to see if they have more left in the tank and it’s been at the expense of opportunities for young talent.
That’s why they are focusing on developing young talent dude. Because they haven’t done a good job lately. Ownership is going to spend more on this it was stated at the press conference.
From my perspective, when a team says they want to focus on player development I take that to mean building up a minor league infrastructure, pitching lab, hitting lab, extra coaches, etc. etc. that is likely situated at their Spring complex. It’s to be more effective at developing the players in their minor league system. Or at least have some kind of plan to make the kids better…now and into the future. I don’t think it’s player development at the major league level necessarily.
I hear you sob and while I think thats a huge part of their plan I also think getting big leaguers like Walker, Gorman and Liberatore going is important and part of the plan. The team has relied on these old guys the last few years and it has hurt the development of their younger guys and I think they want to fix that.
“Mainly because ownership it too cheap to invest in developing said talent.”
Captain K-Midd;
This is the problem I have with the MLBTR chatroom.
People here thing MLB is some sort of Rotisserie League. You spend more money, you automatically get something done. Spend money. Spend money. Spend money….or you’re “Cheap”.
We’re dealing with human beings – not a spreadsheet. How do organizations develop players better? Human beings work with one another. Look at analytics, videos of a players techniques, come up with theories and plans. Then the coaches work with the players.
It’s an organizational thing!
Spending more money doesn’t make a substandard baseball organization better. A quality coach, analyst, etc. working for an organization isn’t going to take a job with a poorly run one because he/she is getting a 20% raise. Anymore than a quality, in-demand FA player will go to an organization that isn’t winning and has a rep for stalling players progress. Coaches, FO people, etc. can last through their 40’s, 50’s, and 60’s.
Again, we’re talking about human beings. Professional adults that don’t want to dead-end their careers. That want to be in the business for decades. FO people are FA’s just like players. The smart ones want to go to another job if it’ll make them more marketable in the future. The poor/desperate ones go wherever they can get a paycheck for a season.
That’s a straw man; no one said they were rebuilding.
When your site predicts 7 of the top 35 trade candidates are Cardinals i think you are saying they are rebuilding. And yes others are definitely saying that.
The team won 83 games last year. Same as the Cubs. I like the Cubs trading for Tucker and think they are the division favorites but they were also the favorites last year.
Tim, the team said they were “going young” and you (and so many others who follows this site) hermetically interpret that as “they want to trade 7 established players”, but then you criticize people who interpret trading 7 established players as you guys predicting a rebuild and say you are mistaken…but then you say its a “strawman” because the term you prefer to hang your hat on is “reset”. Quite frankly, you’re hiding behind semantics and being inconsistent.
Tim – Bloom is the perfect guy to accomplish going young without necessarily trying to win. He did just that for 5 years under the direction of John Henry.
“How is what the Cardinals are doing different than many other teams in the league?”
None of the teams you listed are deciding on rebuilding or not. They’re either playoff teams or up and coming. The only team you listed close to the Cardinals is the Mariners, but they don’t have any vets they’re looking to trade away. Plus the Guardians already made a couple of major moves (trades) and some minor moves (Bieber). Have you been paying attention to their offseason?
And putting the Braves in there is comical. They’re an elite team with a ton of talent locked in to long term deals that have them knocking on the door of the CBT. The only reason they didn’t make a deep run last year was injuries. They don’t need to make any big moves to win the division next year. Just little moves here and there that will keep them under the CBT.
The Cardinals won 83 games last year. They aren’t some terrible team in need of a rebuild. I could name plenty of those teams the Cardinals aren’t that team.
They haven’t traded ANYONE!
This site thought they would trade 7 guys away. They haven’t traded a single player.
The site didn’t think they would make seven trades. They put seven Cardinals on their likely to be traded list. It’s different. Stop beating that dead horse. It’s a pile of bloody pulp at this point.
They were correct about the situation with Arenado – the Cardinals made a deal to trade him, only to be nixed by the NTC. So far they have been wrong about the rest. There has been no firesale.
The situation and messaging has been wierd. They could have great performances from several young players and be competitive, or they could be worse than 2024. That’s the dilemma they face – to go for a strong reset and punt 2024 or to hang on and see what happens.
7 guys in the top 35 likely to be traded and not a single one has been dealt. That’s reality.
I said at that time I think Arenado gets dealt. It wasn’t clear at that time that he asked to be dealt but it is now.
The messaging has never changed. Mozeliak came out and said they were lowering payroll. His reason for this was to prepare the fan base for a rather inactive offseason. But rebuild was never in the cards pun intended. That was never the plan.
If you asked me I would say I want a rebuild. I was posting all kinds of trade ideas about how the Cardinals should trade off some of there talent for prospects. I definitely did that. But thats just my personal preference of what I wanted to happen not what the team wanted.
I’m confused. What are you hoping for with all of this dialog? We all have worked for numerous organizations that deliver conflicting information to the masses.
The Cardinals saw a PR disaster unfolding. 2 prominent players refused to be traded.
They read the open waters ahead and changed course away from the storm. They kept their guys. Mozeliak trying to not go out on a historically bad season. Fair enough. DeWitt. Probably doesn’t want to truly rebuild. There’s some young talent. Play it out.
See what happens. It’s definitely not a hill to make a stand on. This is really is not a black and white issue. Many shades of grey. Maybe they deal their guys during the season depending on how the season is going.
How is Arenado suddenly going to start hitting better than 101 OPS+ in 2025?
Have the Cardinals acquired anyone? I wouldn’t want to be a Cardinals fan right now.
It absolutely is reality, and I believe that on Oct 31 when we published this list:
mlbtraderumors.com/2024/10/top-35-trade-candidates…
the Cardinals expected to trade at least three of the players on it.
Helsley/Fedde: makes zero sense they’re not trading them; part of the point of this article
Arenado: Badly want to trade him but have failed to do so
Gray/Contreras: Team likely wanted and expected to trade at least one of them but they both want to stay through the reset. I think we all understood some players with full NTCs can make that choice and we can’t read their minds.
Donovan/Gorman: Read the entirety of what Steve wrote about them and tell me what didn’t make sense.
They aren’t trading Helsley or Fedde until midseason at the earliest. You can say or think it makes sense to trade them but it doesn’t make it so. The team is trying to win games in 2025.
The team doesn’t badly want to trade Arenado it simply wants to trade him because he asked to be traded.
I don’t believe the reports about the team asking Contreras and Gray to waive their no trade clauses. I don’t think thats true.
Gorman is the least likely guy to be traded of anyone. He’s the kind of guy they are going to let play and work to get right. You could make a case for dealing Donovan but he certainly doesn’t have to be dealt.
Nobody has been traded. Nobody. I think Arenado will be at some point before the season but Helsley and Fedde aren’t going anywhere until perhaps mid season. And if 2025 is anything like 2024 they won’t be traded at all.
The Cardinals have seven guys they would like to trade…not give way and it takes two or sometimes three teams to make a deal happen and things have to line up for the benefit of the teams involved. Relax and just be a fan or buy the team and show everybody how it’s done.
Delusional means having an unshakeable belief in something that is false, even when presented with evidence that it is not true.
@Joel One of those 7 they had a deal worked out for prior to player invoking NTC. Another player Gray flat out stated he would use his NTC. Quit trying to spin this as tho they are sitting by idle and had no intentions of trading anyone or have made no attempts.
The fact they have only let players walk, made no additions, and can’t even follow through with their desire to trade tells where the club is really at right now.
@Joel HAHA So you just want to deny all reports that font fit the narrative you want to believe?? You are also flat out making up this Arenado requesting to be traded, it’s been reported nowhere.
I’d say it’s laughable but it’s kind of scary how delusional you are, you seem to not grasp reality.
Three of the teams you mention (Guardians, Padres, and Braves) were playoff teams last year. One of these three has a very specific reason for not making moves (Padres), and that’s related to an ownership issue, while the Guardians have made two significant trades ( Naylor and Giminez) and a re-signing (Beiber). The Braves, in fact, have signed an outfielder (de la Cruz), and none of these three teams are anywhere near the situation the Cardinals are in (performing near the bottom of their division with aging players). The Reds already have given significant playing time to their youth, and they TOO have made trades (Lux and Trevino). Must I go on? MLBTR has reported at length on why all of these teams offseasons have gone as they have, especially the hamstrung Twins (they’re up for sale, dude!) and the various broadcasting issues each of these teams face.
May we show you the door yet?
BITA
How is what the Cardinals are doing different than many other teams in the league?
============================
I wouldn’t lump all those teams together since some are searching couch cushions for loose change. But otherwise, it is too early for a judgement. StL being a great BB town, they should probably be spending more.
But spending big money early isn’t always the right long-term move.
In addition, and this will be on the finals, there is a very good argument that this is a season where they need to figure out their future alignments. I’ve been saying this for a year and a half. I think they have players, but I don’t think they know where best to play them.
my brother in christ, the teams that you have listed are at or near playoff contention. They need some minor retooling. Cards just need to blow it up and start over. Huge difference here.
Go figure half measures teams lost tv revenue from ballys bankruptcy and are doing nothing this off season.
It’s been a decade of half measures. An aging, once-great owner with prickly pride and moron for a son and an even bigger moron of a POBO.
I said it last year several times. It doesn’t really matter what the Cardinals do or don’t do until next year. It’s possible that the ownership situation is creating an environment where no one could be successful, but Mo, for sure, can’t fix this. He rode the coattails of more qualified people to success, then systematically removed them from the organization in order to consolidate his own power. Left to his own devices, he made one bad decision after another and here we are.
There is nothing to do but ride this out.
Mozeliak giveaways:
Adolis Garcia
Randy Arozarena
Zac Gallen
Sandy Alcantara
Tommy Edman
Feel free to add to this list, while also pondering why Mozeliak is NOT trading Fedde and Helsley.
Fedde and Helsley are not similar to any of those players. The situations are totally different.
Edman was NOT a giveaway! Whether they trade or keep him, getting Fedde for him was a win/win trade (well, win/win/lose when considering what the White Sox got in that 3-team deal).
Garcia (who nobody wanted at one point, even his own team the Rangers) and Arozarena had terrible years last year. Alcantara missed all of last year after a terrible 2023. Gallen had a good year, though his ERA climbed. Edman’s number have been going down since his rookie season (besides, Fedde could still provide value).. Lane Thomas had a bad year after an excellent 2023. All in all, 2024 was a great year for those who stew about players the Cards have traded away. Every team has players who go on to greatness elsewhere.
Arozarena for Liberatore. C’mon maaaaaaaan.
Lane Thomas
Who had a lousy year in 2024 after a good year in 2023. Could he even make the Cards’s roster?
Trading those three players is not up to the Cardinals. The players choose not to be traded and have no trade clauses. I’m no MO fan but his hands are tied. He did tie his own hands by giving the no trade clauses at a different time
CardsFan57;
B I N G O
Mo gave out absurd contracts. If they can even get the players to agree to a trade and if they can get another teams willing to take those contracts on, they get back little. The only thing the Cardinals can do is let them expire….same as with Mo. So they put a good face on it and make contradictory public statements because they’re boxed in.
The owner made the a few good moves. He brought in Chaim to build an organization while waiting for the contracts to expire. It takes time for Mr. Bloom to gradually bring in quality people, get them to develop baseball philosophies, and work together. That’s how businesses made up of human beings do it.
Two years ago the owner knew that at best the ML team won’t be more than a fringe contender – if that – until 2026 at best. The
plan was implemented.
Cardinals are likely not going to make the post-season this year. They could get a huge return for Helsley, maybe Ferris and/or Frasso from the Dodgers. Or inter-division for Kevin Alcantara and Jordan Wick. Helsley’s value will never be higher, he is better than Scott and Scott is getting $50 million/3 years or better.
It’s still a better chance than the extra value Helsley would provide in trade now compared to the trade deadline. They might as well go for it.
Whether it’s a half-full measure or a half-empty measure, disappointing nonetheless .Don’t root for them, but I respect their fanbase. I’m sorry, Redbirds fans.
Arenado is owed $74,000,000 for his age 34, 35, and 36 seasons. The Rockies are on the hook for $10,000,000 of that. If Arenado is a 2 – 2..5 WAR per year player over that period, he’s probably worth about $15,000,000 per year. Mo needs get over the idea he can dump most of the $64,000,000 the Cards are stuck with. The Cards are going to have to pay at least $19,000,000 of Arenado’s salary in order to make a deal.
Getting rid of $45M out of $64M IS dumping most of it! Mozeliak is probably willing to do that. He’s just not willing to eat more than $20M or so.
Awesome. He’s yours for the next 3 YEARS. Enjoy!!!
Arenado will probably get moved when a contending team’s 3B gets “out for the year” status. Or “inexplicably became terrible” status. So maybe 15 contending teams. So that’s a nonzero, but not particularly high probability
The reports in December were that the Cardinals were willing to pay down Arenado’s salary so the Astros would have paid him $40 to $45 million over 3 years.
So? This has always been the plan, and it’s a perfectly good one. They still have enough talent to compete in a weak division even after cutting payroll, so there’s no reason not to keep these guys and go for it for now. It’s not like keeping them would do much to hurt their chances to compete again in 2026 or 2027, especially the ones still under contract or control for multiple seasons still.
Your trade candidate article was absolutely embarrassing, as even back then the Cardinals clearly had no plans to trade most of the guys you included, especially your idiotic inclusions of guys like Donovan and Nootbaar, good young players who still have three years of control left.
Yeah let’s see what happens. If the Cardinals trade away players in July instead of now they will still get back plenty of prospects and still save some money. Why sell now?
Heck who though the 2024 team had a shot? I’d didn’t but they were projected to be a playoff team back in June and July. It didn’t work out but oh well the team had a chance. This idea that a team has to be a super pow4r or rebuild is insane. If that’s the case most of the league should be rebuild8ng and obviously they aren’t
So many big feelings here.
The stl FO approached the players about their NTC’s, to reduce payroll this offseason. It’s still plan A.
Some players affect attendance more than others. Being selective who goes later at the deadline helps a weakening revenue stream until then.
Full sell on the short term assets until next offseason. Don’t pretend.
Just because the Cardinals haven’t done anything, doesn’t mean they won’t.
I don’t like the idea of waiting until July, but nothing says they had to “rebuild/reset” the team by January?
Consuming all the professional and amateur Cardinals content these past few months has been brutal. The whining, whinging, pearl clutching despair is just too much.
A lot of Cardinals fans are entitled whiners no doubt about that. And the way this site has handled things this offseason hasn’t helped either.
I think the team wants to cut payroll but still try and compete. Is that really unique around the league? It’s not.
Exactly.
“Yes, this is going to be where we’re not focusing on necessarily building the best possible roster we can”
Competing was simply not the team’s priority on Oct 1. The GM said basically that. It is completely different from teams that never said the things DeWitt and Mo did.
Did circumstances change since? Absolutely: two key guys with large salaries wouldn’t even entertain trades, a third has been picky, and despite adding nothing, Mo has to date taken the stance that holding Helsley and Fedde is optimal.
And if you want to say that their need to cut payroll was reduced by the new TV deal on Nov 7, then yes, that circumstance also changed after October. But you didn’t say that.
What do you think the Mariners and Twins are doing? Focusing on building the best possible roster? Of course not they just haven’t been as public about what their plans are.
I don’t believe Gray or Contreras were ever asked to waive their no trade clauses. Because if they wanted to trade guys they have plenty of guys without no trade clauses to move. And they haven’t traded anyone. That’s you taking a reporters unconfirmed comments and running with them.
I think the tv deal and the lack of fans is the reason they are cutting payroll and they don’t want to say that to the fans. Attendance has been way down the last few years those attendance numbers reported are fake look at the stands attendance has been way down.
Blackpink Dude, you’re complaining that MLBTR is taking “unconfirmed comments and running with them” while saying that your speculations based on less and your mind reading abilities are better? Get some self awareness.
I can’t believe the attention this internet fool is getting from mlbtr (Tim) and others.
BITA
A lot of Cardinals fans are entitled whiners no doubt about that.
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You should go to a RS site. Their fans are complaining that all we did so far was to add Crochet, Buehler & Chapman.
Im curious as to how much interaction Mo has with Arenado and the agent (is it still Boras?)
Because as long as those parties are all on the same page with where this is going, I don’t feel the need to know.
Arenado is in decline, and I’d send him to the Angels — a team he’s approved a trade to — for a shag bag of practice balls and some fungos — and worry about the rest later. The Cardinals shouldn’t at all expect anything talent-wise back. I think THAT is part of the issue. But who knows.
I just know it’s going to be the longest season at Busch Stadium since the early 90s after Gussie died and the Cardinals were nothing more than a line item for A/B to deal with.
Should have resigned Lynn and Gibson.
Um, still can. Go get em.
Arenado’s agent is Joel Wolfe. He moved from Boras to Wolfe in 2015.
To take all of Arenado’s contract,give up a prospect?
As high as Mathews?
There is no reason to do that. They would be better paying Arenado to be league average (plus or minus) and keeping Matthews. They aren’t all that desperate.
They would be giving a $2.5M prospect to unload ~$60M.
That’s an awfully darn good deal….
And also…
Probably a pretty darn good reason!
Let’s not forget that Goldschmidt had an MVP season at age 34 after some weaker seasons. No reason Arenado can’t return to elite status at age 34 (though, admittedly, his down years have been weaker than Goldschmidt’s).
Actually there are plenty of reasons. Go take a peak at his awful underlying numbers. He’s heading for 90 OPS+ territory in 2025.
Let’s check back at the all-star break!
Seems to me that there would need to be like…measurable activity to even get to half measure status! Imo turning down options doesn’t count. This is more like a homer Simpson “hide under some coats and hope it works out” offseason lol.
You have just had a heavy session of electroshock therapy, and you’re more relaxed than you have been in weeks. Suddenly all that childhood trauma magically wiped away, along with most of your personality!!
Would it be plausible to say the Cardinals are going through a trajectory similar to the Indians several decades back? From selling out games and having marquee players to low spendings and ugly attendances?
It would be really sad if that was the case.
Two quarter notes and a half note rest?
Cardinals are going to compete for the NL Central in 2025. It’s easy to see them significantly better than last year, when they were above .500.
Arenados long term $ traded away is Bills preference, and in a HOU type trade he would have reclaimed 22m in 25′ for the reset.
He could do the same with Fedde and Matz bundled now, and reclaim 20m. Keep Helsleys saves for attendance sake and flip his value at the deadline.
Lose Mikolas and his FA class by next free agency and Bill could compete with the Athletics for 30th in payroll, with or without Arenado and the NTC’s. It’s still plan A.
Gray, Carpenter and Middleton was the last time Bill spent, he’s been in reset since.
If Morton and Cobb can both net 15 million, there should be a pretty decent market for Fedde (7.5 two years left) and maybe even Matz (12.5 two years left)
Both Fedde and Matz are FA’s-to-be for 2026.
Teams have gotten wise to the shady trade tactics of this joke franchise and won’t deal with them. Any team that makes a deal with them should keep their guard up and fleece them at every suggested deal. Who knows how many other teams have had their databases hacked by that cheating franchise
Brilliant comment, B H IA. You must be kin with Einstein, maybe even MacGyver.
What better half-measure signing than the half-measure offense of Kolten Wong,
It doesn’t get any more half-measured than retaining MoTie and continuing to allow him to have a voice/roll w/i the organization.
At this point in the offseason StL might be better off keeping the players talked about in the article.
I would think it would be a good idea to pick up a relatively inexpensive SP and RP whose asking price has come down.
Be strategic, keep conversations ongoing and see if anything shakes out at the end of ST when all teams have a better sense of their immediate needs plus any major injuries
You could still trade at midseason or keep the player the whole year and offer them a QO. I realize the return would be less but not much.
I think many things would have to go right for StL to be in the playoffs in 2025. I think the CUBs have the best chance to win the division but MIL will be battle them the whole year I also expect CIN and PIT will show good improvement and the division will be more competitive.
There could still be significant FA signings and trades before Opening Day that will effect the balance of power in the NL Central
I think it is still early but in another month I will be interested to see WIN LOSS O/U Over Under projections.
I think StL could be within a 72-85 WIN window
How much stl pitching is left by opening day, has too big of a variable on the W/L outcome, for me to even guess and expect to come close. If Helsleys 47-4 in save opps gets dealt and not replaced….
I do think the NYM could use Arenado as a part time 1B, 3B and DH while paying MOST of the salary that StL owes over 3 years (about 65M) I realize COL still owes some.
Possibly even if they still bring back Alonso but less so.
For salary relief I wonder if StL would be satisfied with medium type 2 prospects.
Taking on most of Arenado could be done for a gift basket in return, especially with the HOU rumor, of stl paying down Arenado by 15M.
“Cardinal way”