The Pirates are 22-37 to this point in the season, leaving them with the second-worst record in the National League ahead of only the lowly Rockies. They’re already 11.5 games back of a Wild Card spot and 14.5 games behind the Cubs in the race for the NL Central crown. It’s hard to imagine them turning things around quickly enough to avoid being sellers at this year’s trade deadline. That led to plenty of buzz on social media speculating about the possibility of Pittsburgh brass listening to offers on star right-hander Paul Skenes, but reporting has unequivocally dismissed that notion.
USA Today’s Bob Nightengale confirmed this morning that the Pirates are “flatly rebuking” interest from rival clubs in Skenes and fellow young star Oneil Cruz, but he did report that the front office will at least listen to offers on the rest of their roster. It’s a sensible stance for the club to take. After all, Skenes and Cruz are both exciting young players with superstar potential and plenty of team control remaining: Cruz is controlled for three seasons after this one, while Skenes is controlled for four. With the rest of the club’s most prized players either out for the season (Jared Jones) or still in the minor leagues (Bubba Chandler), listening on the rest of the roster throughout the summer could allow the Pirates to best position themselves to improve for 2026 and beyond.
It should be noted that just because the organization is willing to listen on a player does not mean a deal coming together should be expected. The Pirates have plenty of other assets that are both intriguing and under longer-term control that they would surely be hesitant to part with for anything less than an impressive return. Right-hander Mitch Keller and lefty Bailey Falter are both controlled through the end of the 2028 season (the same length of time as Cruz) and have emerged as affordable and reliable rotation pieces in recent years. That sort of talent is difficult to part with, even for a club as deep in exciting pitching talent as the Pirates.
Speculatively speaking, it’s not hard to imagine the Pirates only being willing to part with those pieces if they were able to receive a similarly-talented player with a comparable team control who better fits the club’s needs in return, as was the case when they swapped Luis Ortiz to the Guardians for Spencer Horwitz this past winter. Much more likely to be moved on the pitching side of things are shorter-term pieces like Andrew Heaney, Caleb Ferguson, and David Bednar. MLBTR’s Steve Adams recently discussed the Pirates’ pitching staff in a piece for Front Office subscribers that provides a more detailed look at the players Pittsburgh could consider moving.
On the hitting side of things, Nightengale specifically floats two names as possible trade chips: outfielder Bryan Reynolds and third baseman Ke’Bryan Hayes. Both are under long-term team control after previously signing eight-year extensions with the team: Reynolds is in the third year of a deal that runs through 2030 with a club option for 2031, while Hayes is in the fourth year of a deal that runs through 2029 with a club option for 2030. Perhaps that would make them seem likely to be off-limits for a team that surely hopes to contend while Cruz and Skenes are still in town, but it’s not hard to see why the Pirates may be more willing to part with them.
Both are owed significant guaranteed money—no small factor for an organization with Pittsburgh’s payroll constraints—and neither has quite lived up to the expectations placed on them when their deals were signed. Hayes is an elite defender at the hot corner and has shown the ability to be a three-win player with even average offense in the past, but he’s been dogged by injuries throughout his career and is hitting just .229/.283/.285 (58 wRC+) over the past two years. Reynolds is already in his age-30 campaign, is a poor defender restricted to the outfield corners, and has hit just .264/.332/.442 (109 wRC+) over the past three seasons. He’s even been below average (87 wRC+) this year, and while his expected numbers remain strong it would be understandable for the Pirates to move on if they received a return they were satisfied with.
Even as the Pirates are likely willing to listen to offers on both players, however, there are plenty of obstacles to trading either one. Hayes will still be owed $36MM (including a $6MM buyout on the 2030 club option) after 2025, and while that’s hardly an exorbitant sum it’s difficult to justify taking on that expense and surrendering a meaningful return for a player who hasn’t been more than replacement level since 2023. Reynolds is a more productive player, but he’s owed more than $77MM on a contract that runs through his age-35 season and is already showing signs of decline. Unless the Pirates are interested merely in clearing salary off their books and a willingness to accept a relatively weak package in return, the team would surely be better off waiting for Hayes and Reynolds to improve—or at least for their contracts to become less onerous as more gets paid down—in order to trade them.
Even if Hayes and Reynolds appear unlikely to exchange hands this summer, that doesn’t mean the Pirates have no one to dangle on the hitting side of things. All parties surely want Andrew McCutchen to retire in Pittsburgh, but Isiah Kiner-Falefa is a pending free agent who has put together a solid enough season (108 wRC+) to attract plenty of interest. Tommy Pham and Adam Frazier are also pending free agents, but have struggled this year and may not garner much outside interest. One other intriguing option would be moving catcher Joey Bart, who has hit .256/.341/.406 (109 wRC+) in a Pirates uniform but could be moved if Pittsburgh is ready to pass the torch to Henry Davis and Endy Rodriguez.
Hayes really needs to go. Sure it’s great to have his glove but the Buccos need offensive help from that position.
Having said that, has anyone noticed that the Pirates are 10-11 since showing Shelton the door?
Extend player. Wait till they have a down year. Sell low… equals profit?
I would be OK with bringing you back to play third base for a couple of years.
You are old but can still hit.
And,yes,I have noticed.Kelly has shown life as the manager and that has at least somewhat been infused into the team.They also have started hitting better.I think that Kelly stays if they can be a 500 team under him.
One reason why they are playing better under Kelly, he’s sticking with the same lineup every game
Shelton changed his lineups like most people change their underwear
Giving the same players regular plate appearances helps them to hit better. There’s a few exceptions, Hayes and Cruz, primarily because he strikes out so often but the regulars seem to squaring off on pitches more frequently
I am a Pirates fans for 50 years and what’s happening to this team is a travesty. Baseball has to get Bob Nutting out of there. This roster has a chance with its young talent to compete for a world series and Nutting won’t spend the money to put them over the top. Here we are again talking about selling players. We have Paul Skenes a generational talent and we are talking about trading him. Are you kidding me? I, as well as all Pirates fans implore MLB to stop this madness and get Nutting out!
You read the same article? Skenes and Cruz aren’t being traded. Probably should, but aren’t. What’s the use of holding a superstar when you don’t have pieces to help him while you have him? Seems like a good GM loads up on players that are scheduled to arrive at the same time. Seems like that is a small market teams only hope when you don’t have money to compete with the big markets.
Article says “”flatly rebuking” interest from rival clubs on Skenes and cruz
Define “rival”
Didnt mike rizzo say the same thing about Soto leading up to 2022
Can’t blame this season on Nutting not spending $. Heck he splurged this year. Pham was a minor league contract guy and Pirates gave him 4m. I gave the Pirates about half a dozen outfielders all 5m or less and they have drastically outperformed Pham.
Pirates should still be in contention. They aren’t because they have stupid people at every level of management. Williams Cherington Shelton should have been gone in October. A real manager. Real outfielder. Real bench this team would look so much better.
Good gms plan ahead. They build a staff that can identify and develop talent. They don’t worry at all about loading up on players to arrive at same time. 1 you can’t know when a player will arrive. 2 you have so much talent it doesn’t matter. And if somehow you don’t there is always free talent available on waivers and free agency because there are so many below average and outright bad gms.
Trade them both now for the most epic haul of all time.
They could empty the Phillies or the Dodgers of all their prospects. They can set the team up for a good future. If they hold onto both, they are unlikely to win while the players are in prearb and the arb salaries are going to get pricey.
They should trade both.
Your suggestion is not the path management intends to take.
Ben is fighting for his job and isn’t about to trade the two best players for prospects.
He will demand major league ready talent.
Wish to your heart’s content, your suggestion isn’t going to happen
The Pirates payroll is low because Pittsburgh is an historically Bad Market for baseball.
Even when the team has been one of the best in baseball, the fans didn’t show up.
2015: 3rd straight playoff year. Second best record in MLB. And the Pirates attendance was just 9th of 15 NL teams. The Brewers won only 68 games that year and had a higher attendance than the Pirates.
In the early 1990s, the Pirates couldn’t fill the stadium for the National League Championship Series.
The Pirates were a perennial World Series contender throughout the 1970s and attendance was always dismal. In fact, in 1979, when the Pirates won the World Series, they were TENTH of the Twelve NL teams in attendance.
In 2023, the Pirates ranked 26th in total revenue. And in 2024, they LOST money.
With a market history like that, Pittsburgh will be lucky to still have a team in 2031, after the lease on PNC Park expires. And if Pittsburgh does still have a team in 2031, the City will have Bob Nutting to thank for it. Any other owner would move the team to greener pastures.
Nice to hear a different take on the situation. You have a nice day Mr. Nutting!
Provide some factual evidence that Pittsburgh is a “good” market for baseball.
In 2015, the Pirates had their history attendance in team history. And they were still outdrawn by the small market Milwaukee Brewers, who had a record of 68 wins and 94 losses that same year.
The following season, Nutting raised payroll to its highest level ever – and attendance DROPPED by 250,000.
Richard is a nice person. Very passionate about how poor a baseball market is and how Nutting lost $. However instead of spending his time on here preaching it he should take a basic demographics, economics and accounting class.
We don’t take kindly to cyborgs around here fella.
Like Milwaukee is a bigger market than Pittsburgh?
That low attendance = more revenue?
The thing everybody overlooks in that article is that they went into it looking for profit. In short, they went into it looking to nail Nutting. That was the expectation. They just couldn’t find it and deserve credit for being honest about it.
As 88 gazillion people have noted, Pittsburgh is a football town. The Pirates are an afterthought after an afterthought.
That said, they did sell out for the Skenes bobblehead game. Whoopie. But a baseball team will never make a dime for any owner in that city.
The Pirates payroll is low because Nutting refuses to spend. Between the 90 million every team gets from the national TV contracts and the approximately 110 million they all receive from splitting 48% of all tickets and local broadcasting revenue, MLB teams all make money. Nutting simply chooses not to spend it on his team. baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Revenue_sharing#:~:….
Nutting refuses to spend because, as the facts I stated above prove, Pittsburgh is a bad market for baseball.
After reaching the playoffs from 2013 through 2015, Nutting INCREASED payroll to it highest ever in 2016 – and attendance DROPPED by 250,000.
A detailed four-month-long investigation found that the Pirates LOST money in 2024..
dkpittsburghsports.com/team/site-stuff/feed?page=0…
To show how stupid you are Richard,the Pirates lost more games than they won in 2016.
Do you think that that may have been a reason for lower attendance than when they won 98 games in 2015?
“All other costs, including administration, staff, travel, development, draft, international, stadium ops, analytics and way more: $171.7 million” – without a detailed breakdown of these costs, the article is irrelevant
Did you know most tickets are sold before opening day?
RichardJarzynka;
I have a business background. That article is clearly on track. One of the best ones I’ve read about any MLB franchises financial situation.
The kids here understand business like they do baseball. Quote some statistics not understanding what went into developing them.
More than any publication I’ve ever read about sports, MLBTR and the people that read it believe:
Total Revenues
– Player Salaries
= Money In The Owners Pocket.
If they’d even bother adding up individual players WAR’s during the time they played for the individual teams each year (a good percentage of players play for multiple teams each season in modern MLB) they’d see that the accumulated team WAR’s don’t correspond to the teams positions in the 6 division standings at the end of the year. So the kids then state: “The Playoffs Are A Crapshoot”….because they don’t understand how baseball is played……they believe stats are facts….so that one doesn’t have to have knowledge of the issue at hand and be able to think.
Texas Trev;
Ridiculous.
It was an article for public consumption summarizing situations, not a detained business report.
Am sure the author could provide them…but even with the general article he put most people off.
The point is that there are far, far more fixed expenses a ML franchise incurs each year that the sports media and fans don’t want to get involved with.
–
The same as “Cities Build Parks For The Billionaire Owners”.
1. Most owners are not billionaires.
2. Cities float bonds. Each ticket that’s sold sends part of that money via a tax back to the city to pay off the bonds. Most areas around parks is now full of entertainment and gambling traffic, and those businesses pay additional taxes back to the city, much of which wouldn’t be there were there not a game that day/night.
Maybe most but there are a lot of walkups too if the team is any good.
You always could get tickets for the Pirates because they do not sell out in advance.
And 51% is most.
Give it a break
“Any other owner would move the team to greener pastures.”
There’s a zero percent chance that MLB would allow the Pirates to go anywhere. They’ve been in Pittsburgh for almost 150 years. Also those three years they were good that you’re citing, they averaged 30,000 fans a game in the third year of that. Pittsburgh would support the Pirates if their owner gave a damn and spent some money.
“And in 2024, they LOST money.”
If you believe this, I have a bridge to sell you. The sourcing for this claim is one guy who did research on it. Creative accounting can make it look like they lost money. So can loans. But between their revenue, shared national revenues, and CBT sharing, there is no chance that the Pittsburgh Pirates lost money. That’s roughly $300 million in revenue. Also that same guy who did research showed that Pittsburgh’s most profitable years were 2013-2015, when their payroll was about $100 million, which at the time was high for them. ie, spend money and make money.
In 2015, they were NINTH (9th) of Fifteen NL Teams in attendance – in a year when they went to the playoffs for the third straight time and won 98 games, the second most in MLB. The Brewers had a 68-94 record and had higher attendance.
Regarding your “spend money an make money” assertion: Nutting raised the payroll to its highest ever in 2016 – after reaching the postseason three straight years – and attendance DECREASED by 250,000.
Pittsburgh has NEVER supported the Pirates. And there is ZERO evidence that Pittsburgh is a “good” market for baseball. NONE.
The reporter and a team of people he hired did a 4-month investigation of the Pirates finances. The team LOST money in 2024.. You have no evidence for your claim that they did not.;
Of course MLB would allow the Pirates to move. They’re about making money – and more money can be made in a better market, such as Nashville.
The Dodgers moved out of Brooklyn. The Giants moved out of New York. And the Braves moved out of Milwaukee.
And let’s say, MLB doesn’t allow the move. Then Nutting should cut payroll even further..
Richard is a troll. He keeps defending Nutting with no evidence (aside from one terrible article). I don’t know him personally, but my guess is that he is dumb as rocks or a Bob Nutting shill who has no moral character.
No evidence?
The evidence for Pittsburgh being an historically bad market for baseball is overwhelmingly abundant and there is nothing to counter it;
2015: 3rd straight playoff year. Second best record in MLB. And the Pirates attendance was just 9th of 15 NL teams. The Brewers won only 68 games that year and had a higher attendance than the Pirates.
2016: Nutting INCREASES payroll to highest ever. Attendance DECREASES by 250,00.
In the early 1990s, the Pirates couldn’t fill the stadium for the National League Championship Series.
The Pirates were a perennial World Series contender throughout the 1970s and attendance was always dismal. In fact, in 1979, when the Pirates won the World Series, they were TENTH of the Twelve NL teams in attendance..
Richard might be saying the same thing over and over (which absolutely is not necessary), but the person who results to name calling first usually has the weaker argument, AAAA.
I responded with civility and manners in the last article Richard shilled for Bob. I am not wasting my time showing evidence and pointing out logic to a troll. Keep talking to Richard and you’ll be frustrated too.
He talks about one article and attendance records. Both of which are garbage. The article hand waves data and the attendance record doesn’t address money from revenue sharing, TV contracts, and other (we’ll researched) articles that clearly detail the amount of money this team has generated.
Richard is right. The Pirates have some loyal fans, but by and large it’s not a great baseball town. Their problems go back to the 1960’s. They were the first team to field an all-black lineup in a game. And a lot of the fans stopped going to games, because they wanted more white players on the team. This is documented in the Clemente biography by David Maraniss. They continued to lag behind in attendance, even during their great 1979 season, as he has repeatedly told you. And then they couldn’t even sell out playoff games in 1990 when there were just 4 teams in the playoffs and it was a big deal if you made it in.
Those three good years, they finished 9th, 11th, 9th in NL attendance, despite their low ticket prices.
Is that good?
Lmao
Did you skip the half page of numbers he posted?
Or don’t you know what numbers mean?
Uh, you said he didn’t post any evidence after he posted a plethora of evidence.
Did you forget?
Yeah, but attendance figures are garbage. Now that’s some solid evidence.
😂 😆
9th in attendance for Pittsburgh is freaking great. Incredible baseball town. Imagine where it would be if they didn’t have the 20 straight years of losing! I don’t know how you remove a owner for being stupid but Nutting is costing the other owners a lot of $.
Great is falling behind the rest of the league in revenue in your best years?
While the smallest market in the league outdraws you, while finishing 30 games behind you.
😂 😆 😂
Way to show off that demographic and economic knowledge.
Great is not selling out playoff games in the 90s?
Great is finishing in the top half of NL attendance 3 times since 1970?
Is 10th out of 12 in attendance great for a world series winner?
How many user names are you going to create Richard? I explained it to you before. You weren’t intelligent enough to understand.
PNC Park holds 37000+ fans
Even selling out 81 home games, the total will still far below league average
You haven’t posted a shred of evidence .
Just babbled your opinion based in nothing .
Vealparm/RichardI think that Richard is simply a bot.Nutting does not read this site.Milwaukee is a really good baseball town.The real proof would be to see what % of attendance is located within 50 miles of the ballpark versus the population of that area.
The bot says that the Pittsburgh fans do not deserve a ML team because they are so bad but anyone can tell by the 2013-2015 attendance figures that they would support a good team.
My guess is that the average attendance was a fairly high % of the ballpark maximum during that period.To rate things properly one would have to take into account the team record and the total population of the area and the ballpark size.
That is why they are one of the eight small market teams.
This is not advanced mathematics.
Pittsburgh has always been a football town even when the Steelers were bad but that does not mean that they are a bad baseball town.
Unless your name is Richard.
Milwaukee has a dome. Far from ocean. No NFL. Doesn’t share their state with another team. And they win. If Pirates won more they would have more fans. Losing for 20 straight years hurts. Lost entire generation of fans. Ran off other generations.
No NFL? Really? I’ve been to Milwaukee. Lotta green and gold. Up here.
AI/Mendoza. How do your inane excuses add to the Pirates revenue?
Did you miss the part about them being in the top half in NL attendance 3 times in 54 years?
Who ran those people off? Too much winning?
But Milwaukee is far from the ocean!!!!
😆 😂 😂
That’s why mlbs smallest market that won 68 games outdrew the 98 win pirates. Cuz that Pittsburgh sea shore took away all their fans.
Brilliant!!
Veal Richard have to be the same person. There can’t possibly be 2 people so passionate about the same random topic that no one else cares about who know absolutely nothing about business demographics marketing. What would be the odds?
It’s the Green Bay Packers not Milwaukee. If you had the slightest idea you would know why that matters.
Ocean matters because it’s competition for dollars. It’s a 2 to 6 hour drive from Pittsburghs market. Time and $ spent there isn’t spent at pnc park. If you like to party or have kids grand kids you are going to the ocean for a week at least once if not multiple times every summer. NY DC popular drivable destinations.
Team in same state is huge.
Nothing hurts them more than losing though. If he ever starts doing things right attendance will go up 1 million. Haven’t made playoffs for 10 years. 20 years before that. 10 years before that. You have to win. 2013 2015 shows what could be. Need to do that more often.
You and mendoza have to be the same person. . No way two people can be so obtuse on one thread.
Two geniuses who’s only rebuttal to evidence is, that must be a bot. Or the same person .
Way to show off that intellect .
Where do you think Packer fans come from, Einstein? No idea? Consult an atlas. That big city to the south of tiny green bay.
Or did you think Milwaukee is made up of Bears fans?
Newsflash: people everywhere go on vacation. Most go somewhere other than the beach.
Was that meant as a joke? Made me laugh.
But not as much as the ocean is a 2 hour drive from the Pittsburgh market!! 😂 😆
You mean West Chester is now the Pittsburgh market? I’ll alert the neighbors to take down all that Phillies crap.
You’re right. 2013-15 shows what could be. Instead of 14th in attendance, 10th is possible. The entire period of 1970-now shows the same thing .
It’s fast and easy to look at tv market map.
You fit your name.
Richard says that Pittsburgh’s fans deserve a bad team because they are bad fans.How smart is he that if factual why do fans have to support a bad team?
You clearly are not a baseball fan because you do not know the recent history of the game since the 1990’s.
You may even be Richard for all we know.
To compare a small market team’s attendance in the same manner with large market teams shows your intelligence,or more precisely lack thereof.
To use one year of a bad team’s attendance like the Brewers after several good winning years proves to me that you use statistics in any manner shape or form to prove your point.You put the cart before the horse.
That is a mark of stupidity.
Keep on blathering on.
You truly deserve your place in the Richard J Hall of Fame,and in many respects outshine him.
I really never have liked Veal Parm.
At this point you are for entertainment purposes only.
So, now you lie about what he said?
That’s persuasive.
Is English not your first language?
Show where he said what you claimed.
It’s not on this site.
Go find it.
😂 😆
VP-AI and I are not the same person.We are both good looking,and stumble through life the best way that we can,but have different specialities as far as baseball is concerned.
One thing that we both have however is common sense.
And we know how to deal with knuckleheads.
One problem that I have with the Pirates is that when they are bad the trolls from large market teams come out in droves.
You are the first Phillies fan to do that though.I think that they had suffered enough over the last 120 years to be able to relate to Pirates fans.
The Phillies have a fine GM and a good stable of good players.The fans boo the team like yesterday when they lose.
The Pirates do not have to worry because they do not get many fans.
But what knuckleheads like you do not understand is the disparity in baseball is so great that small market teams have no chance to win a WS because of the money involved.
That is how the owner of the Phillies,like the Dodgers,can try to buy a WS win.
That in itself can cause a defeatist attitude amongst the fans of certain teams that do not have the riches to do so.
Go ahead and live in ignorance Rich,er,Veal.
It is a pleasure having you here,for entertainment purposes only.
Why did you make up an obtuse lie about me being a philly fan?
Are you being intentionally stupid ?
Clowns like you think your opinion and common sense are the same thing.
😂 😂
Are you old enough to be in this site? Or too old?
And yes, the entire baseball universe is aware that it’s a rigged game.
Good try.
It is pervasive throughout his numerous posts on the subject.
It is his opinion.
Others just disagree with it,and are tired of seeing the monotony of it.
You on the other hand are bordering on the fine line between knucklehead,and,er,something worse.
English has become my second language.
You are very astute in sensing this.
My first language I have learned on this site.It has become the ability to read posters and tell who the lightweights are.
Thank you for assisting me in this regard.
Ah,an ageist!
You are many things VP but I did not think that!
Thank you for enlightening me.
I apologize for thinking that you are a Phillies fan which was based on your mention of West Chester Pa.
No,I am not being intentionally stupid.I am that way anyways.
Especially for wasting time dealing with clowns like you.
I think we are beginning to realize why your every response is the same factually inaccurate information, its just a cut and paste every day. Attendance figures are all wrong, P/L is all wrong. Conclusions are all wrong. PIrates were one of the most profitable teams in MLB in 2024.
You can continue to post the Germans won WWII and the automobile was invented in 1775 but posting it over and over and over again doesn’t make it true.
Lmao.
You forgot to post your correct attendance figures.
😂 😆 😂
Site map- Please do not use logic and facts in your posts on this site.
They are not understood by several posters.
Respectfully, if they strong arm Nutting, they’re going to have to do it with another handful of owners. I don’t see Manfred being that guy. He’s too much of a people pleaser and keeps his focus on the top half of the league (has he missed an inning of the NYY/LAD series?) – then the bottom half.
the baseball commissioner represents the owners
Bob Nutting is the one who needs to go.
If Bob Nutting goes, the new owner will move the team out of Pittsburgh as soon as the lease on PNC Park expires at the end of the 203o season.
PNC park isnt the problem though, it’s not like the Oakland or Tampa bay situation where it’s about the search of a new stadium
If nutting goes I doubt the next owner would be worse than him, and move the team out of Pittsburg for no reason
A new owner would move the team because Pittsburgh is an historically bad market for baseball.
It’s not PNC Park that is the issue. It’s the fact that the team’s lease on the Park forces them to remain in Pittsburgh through 2030.
MLB wouldn’t allow the new owner to leave Pittsburgh. Richard has no understanding on the subject matter he enjoys so much.
Lmao .
You’re the clown who came up with Milwaukee is far from the ocean. As why their 68 win team out drew the 98 win pirates?
And they have no NFL team to call their own?
🤡
You would rather watch Pirates than go on beach holiday? You’re stranger than I thought.
Where did I say that?
😂 😆
Is reading always this difficult for you?
you need to come with a better excuse for your idiotic Ocean reasoning.
Ask your mom.
Now you are becoming very disrepectful.
May I call you by your last name Parm?
It really is two words.Maybe you are smart enough to know that,and just took poetic license.
Or maybe not.
You simply don’t know anything about business management. You pick the least important factor and focus in on it. Poor marketing and losing is the Pirates biggest problem. But having the Phillies and ocean is a factor. Potential customers has other entertainment choices. To ignore this is just foolish. Not your fault as USA education is awful. Yes people in Milwaukee go on holiday but so does Pittsburgh. Just in addition to going to Florida Jamaica Mexico etc they go to easily drivable destinations. Not a huge factor but if you own a business you need to worry about factors even smaller than this. Dome is huge factor. April May it’s rainy cold in Pittsburgh. People don’t like that. Stadium capacity is a problem. If they sell out it’s 5 or 10 thousand less than other stadiums. I’m not a expert in marketing business demographics or anything related. This is just very basic stuff that anyone who went to a half decent college or worked in a business environment would know. Pick up some used books or take some online courses or something. Not making fun of you I am trying to help you. Unfortunately there are a lot of people like this. Separate yourself from them.
Veal is a victim. The education system has failed him and many others. Society and technology has ruined their lives. He should be out doing fun things. Spending time with girlfriend. Making $. Instead he’s living in parents basement on here making fun of old people. He should be on Twitter with the rest of the younger folks. I come here to stay away from them so it stinks when one finds their way in. There’s more veals than good kids. Their parents have failed. And it seems to only get worse.
I don’t respect ignorance or stupidity
That’s true, and pretty much universal.
Still not sure if 7 hours away from an ocean is too close or too far when it comes to baseball attendance.
That’s funny, I have multiple degrees in business related majors as well as statistics.
That’s why I dismiss your opinions, and agree with the stats guy.
But the ocean!!!!
Save your absurdities for your peer group.
I’ll take numbers
Uh, I have a wife, multiple degrees and you spend your time babbling on baseball sites .
😂 😆
Work on your GED instead .
“You would rather watch Pirates than go on beach holiday? You’re stranger than I thought.”
Example. That’s clearly a joke. Everyone else in here would realize that.
But look how Veal responds. Defensive. Rude. Thinks he is actually funny. Emojis.
“Where did I say that?
😂 😆
Is reading always this difficult for you?
you need to come with a better excuse for your idiotic Ocean reasoning.
Ask your mom.”
Grew up with poor parenting. Poor education. On phone and or videogames. No girlfriend boyfriend. Just never developed interaction skills. Grown adult bodies but brats who don’t have the skills needed to succeed in life.
Not Veals fault. Lots of Veals in the world. Just hopefully they keep to Twitter or somewhere else.
Self reflecting?
😂 😆
How’s the GED coming?
Totally believable that women marry men who use emojis and make fun of senior citizens. You found the world’s most desperate woman. And you have multiple businesses degrees but don’t know how to understand a teams tv market or how other entertainment options effect a business? Better get some more degrees from University of Phoenix or Trump University because your school failed you.
Now that there is why so many mute me. That was a beat down. Brutal. But what you get for talking about things you have zero understanding of and lying.
Tell your wife I said hi.
Uh, you didn’t go to a half decent college.
Or any college
Or even a decent high school .
It barely shows .
Uh, I understood you idiotic opinion of both of your inane excuses based on your feelings .
Pitiful.
Especially that ocean stupidity.
😂 😆 😂
She doesn’t work in your seniors home.
Need your bed pan emptied?
I never made any claims I did.
I was wrong to laugh off your education claims though. I can believe you signed up for Trump University.
Even Trump U wouldn’t admit you.
Butbut a team that doesn’t sell out would have higher attendance if capacity were increased.In case they did sell out.
😂 😆
Add that to something about the ocean, and you’ve solved the problem.
Brilliant Trump level thinking!!
He comes from an ethnic background.
His last name is parmigiana but they shortened it to simplify.
Veal truly is a victim but it has nothing to do with this guy.
Probably not a bad guy but likes to knock other people.
Probably not a troll.
But he is not used to Pirate fans who are experienced in dealing with trolls.
Trolls do not respect others either.
Tens of millions of Veals unfortunately. They don’t want help and not many are even trying to help them. I’d help them but I can’t. Saying I am lying jerk and need help isn’t something many can do.
Your posts are almost always spot on.
You bring a good viewpoint that in certain ways and respects is unmatched.
You respond to questions the best that you can.
You make some big mistakes sometimes.
But all in all you are a real plus to this group.
I had some bad days. Easy for things to get lost in translation as well. I try to do better each day. I’ll make some jokes about peoples age but just a joke. I like old folks. As intelligent as I am they still have some knowledge that can be useful. Not much video on Honus so to have Paul give first hand knowledge from seeing him play is a real blessing.
A good sense of humor is a godsend.
When one laughs one is not stressed.
Sometimes your jokes are very subtle,and people do not get them.
But you are like me.We both call out people who deserve it.
Paul and Cosmo,however,are still my fellow troll busters.
Cosmo now denies telling us his fantasy of going back in time to kill the kids who made fun of him for not having new cool shoes. Don’t know if you remember but I can’t forget a comment like that. Scary dude. I could look past it though but he never liked me from day one and I never even talked with him. He just randomly attacked me.
In time, another team would relocate to Pittsburgh. PNC Park could be a goldmine with competent leadership.
Absolutely. Steelers aren’t the Pirates for a reason, and PNC remains one of the crown jewels of MLB despite Bob do Nutting.
So Nutting is just keeping the Pirates in town out of the goodness of his own heart even though he’s been losing money hand over fist and realized 10 years ago that Pittsburgh isn’t a viable baseball town??? Yeah, right.
Galbraith had to give away the team to keep it in Pittsburgh,to a group made up of local corporations who cobbled together an offer at the last minute.
They then gave away the team to keep it from moving to no money McClatchy. Who lost control of the team because he couldn’t make payroll. The other owners said no more equity calls. Couldn’t borrow another cent because of debt rules .
Nutting bought out the other owners at a discount.
Who in their right mind would want to buy that team, not move it. And pay interest on a billion $ debt?
Lol
Nutting in his right mind.
His investment has made a 10% return every year since he bought it.
He is making $40-60M every year profit at this salary level total.
Not a bad investment if you have enough up front money.
Yes,any subsequent owner would not get it for a low initial amount like he did if he gets anything like the total that Forbes says it is worth.
But if they actually do develop a decent team that draws better it would still be a good investment as long as MLB keeps on making money.
Lol
Not the question.
Have someone read it to you.
You’re really struggling with what words mean.
Newsflash: nutting already owns the team.
I love dealing with stupid and ignorant people.
They are easy pickings.
Newsflash.
The first part of my response dealt with Nutting.
The second part did not deal with nutting.
It was a for a potential buyer who probably would not get the deal that Nutting got but could still be a winner nevertheless.
You may want to go back to second grade and retake Reading Comprehension 101.
Just sayin’.
You like babbling to yourself then.
Still can’t understand the question, half wit?
There’s a shocker.
Your idiotic attempt at calculating a rate of return would be laughed out of the Intro to Finance you never took.
😂 😆
Embarrassing
You never cease to amaze.Mr Parm.
I know the poster is an idiot when they start attacking someone.
They no longer resort to their skewed logic.
Then it becomes like shooting fish in a barrel.
I have become bored with you though and will let you have the last retort.
Adieu.
If the Pirates can get a return for Skenes like the one the Nationals received when they traded when Juan Soto, then the Pirates should trade Paul Skenes.
Skenes has a 2.3 WAR this season. Three of the players the Nationals acquired for Soto – Mackenzie Gore, C.J. Abrams, and James Wood – have a combined WAR of 5.6.
Over the course of a full season, that is a difference of about NINE (9) wins.
If the Red Sox offered Roman Anthony, Marcelo Mayer, Kristian Campbell, and Tristan Casas for Skenes, should the Pirates reject them?
No way the Red Sox do that, it’s just not a realistic trade.
That may be. But if the Pirates get such an unrealistic offer, should they take it?
I think the Red Sox could afford to make that trade. Why isn’t it realistic?
It’s not realistic because you would be trading roughly 20 years of team control on what is likely 4 above average major leaguers who would be in the starting lineup every day , trading 20 years of team control for, what, 4 seasons of a starting pitcher who only pitches every fifth day IF he is entirely healthy and you know how pitching injuries go. So it’s not even close, not in the slightest. Nobody in their right mind in Boston would make that trade.
Best pitcher in baseball making pennies on the dollar. Red Sox would be instant contenders with him and Crochet.
Boston did trade 2 top 50 prospects for 2 years of Crochet. Skenes has 4 years after this year. So 2.3 times more valuable just in team control. Not to mention better especially at time of trade. Much bigger star.
Of Anthony Campbell Mayer it would only take 2 of those. Mayer is closer to what they gave for Crochet than to the other 2. They stick Mayer at SS and he can handle it but would he be better off at 3b? Pirates passed on Mayer for Davis. I believe Mayer said he would have went to usc or wherever if it wasn’t Boston. So Pirates may have little to no interest in Mayer. Maybe even less in Casas. Anthony Campbell would be all you need. Maybe add in a few top 100 to 200 prospects if need be. If Pittsburgh was willing to listen Anthony Campbell get it done. That’s still a lot to give but have to give to get. You would be buying a star that can dominate playoff games. 2 or 3 games a series you are favorite to win because of Skenes. Add 2 or 3 with Crochet well thats good odds.
Anthony, Campbell and Mayer would all have to be involved and it wouldn’t end with those 3. Campbell isn’t even playing well but he’s young enough the Pirates could use him. All 3 plus more.
They will just trade for another Luzardo Crochet Burnes. You aren’t trading 3 elite prospects for any player. 2 would easily get it done. If not Pirates have no interest in trading Skenes which they probably don’t.
Luzardo was expensive and very well could have ended up like Trevor Rogers Philly just got lucky.
Crochet had 2 years of control and is a big injury risk and still costed a ton.
Burnes was a rental for 1 year and cost a lot of money too.
Skenes is making barely over league minimum and is perhaps the best pitcher in the game with 4.5 years of control left. He’s worth a TON.
And Anthony Campbell are a ton.
Red Sox would offer 2 of the prospects, 3 is worth too much
It’s 4 and a half years of perhaps the best pitcher in the game. He’s worth a ton.
Skenes more valuable than Soto?
Skenes easily more valuable than Soto. 2 years vs 4.
Pirates should trade Skenes. Only problem is who will pay fair value? Padres historically have been willing to pay fair value and even over pay. That would be the one team. Another team could but SD has showed they will.
Cherington is so bad at his job especially lately would you as Nutting trust him to make this trade? Depends if Nutting decided to bring Cherington back for 2026.
Not sure I would trust Cherry. But who else is taking that job that you could trust? Some youngster from TB?
Nutting has below average intelligence so unfortunately he will need to trust someone. Just someone other than the guy he is going to fire. Trades are the easiest thing to do so could should work out. Even Cherington was capable of trading.
The Padres don’t have the prospects to make a deal. Maybe the Red Sox do. That might be the only team in baseball that could make a fair offer.
I do not think that Cherington can evaluate young players,and he certainly cannot develop them.
He needs to be like Huntington and get at least four mlb and mlb ready players for him plus others.
It would have to be close to the Hershel Walker trade that set back the Vikings for many years and helped the Cowboys to three Super Bowl wins.
I can’t see any team willing to take on the contractual obligations for Hayes or Reynolds.
A team might take on Reynolds contract, but doing so would decrease the value of the players the Pirates would acquire in return.
Trading Hayes would require the Pirates to take on a large portion of his contract and not get much in return. You might remember when the Pirates had to surrender two prospects in order to get the Blue Jays to take on Francisco Liriano’s contract and got just Drew Hutchinson in return.
Do you people even know what Reynolds makes? What corner outfielders make? Only trouble the Pirates would have trading Reynolds would be deciding on what trade package to take. Not saying it would be amazing but they would easily trade his entire contract.
Hayes not so much. Depends on medicals but bad back usually isn’t good. I never met anyone who said my bad back got better. 7m isn’t a lot of $ in some cities though. If they think he can even be a 650 ops 7m is a steal for that glove.
Do you know what Reynolds makes?
Teams aren’t lining up to take on a long-term commitment for a corner OF that’s a bad defender with a weak, inaccurate arm that doesn’t justify the contract he was given.
I wrote years ago that were I the Pirates GM I would trade Reynolds and Hayes just to get rid of their contracts. They were supposed to be the foundation of the future. What a joke that is. And…….
I’d trade Cruz yesterday if I could find an owner like Arte or the guy in Denver that believes he’s getting a superstar that’s going to help his team win games.
Teams don’t care about Reynolds arm only his bat. Bat should age well. He keeps in shape and works hard. Nice easy to root for marketable guy. Pirates don’t regret that contract at all.
Samuel- You have not been watching Cruz this year.
Yes,a leopard does not change his spots.
But he has matured and is an extremely talented individual.
He is very fast in the outfield and even though he has played cf for less than a year is improving every game.
He is stealing bases consistently.
He has a great arm in cf.
He has been hitting a lot of home runs but with none on because the Pirates are still stupid and have him at lead off.
He still strikes out too much on the same curveball that everyone throws to him.
But we are talking the Pirates here.
It’s just the usual blue-sky blather from Nightengale. No team is going to take on much of those guys’ salaries. And no team is going to give up any real talent for them. Bobby loves to speculate about silly trade ideas. But hey, his stuff gets clicks.
I did like Nightengale’s story about Willie Davis and Eric Anthony, though. DNA testing reveals a lot of secrets.
Richard Dotson found out that Turk Farrell was his biological father through DNA testing, too.
Having just played the Pirates, I’m guessing Dbacks GM Mike Hazen and his staff watched/scouted the Pirates RPs closely.
As he should as at least Borucki Ferguson Bednar Santana should be readily available. The 2 Lefty’s must be traded as they are free agents.
Unfortunately Sell? lol. They will squander yet another great group of young talent
Get 1 outfielder and hit on their relievers and they are a winning team next year. Could have been a winning team this year. Poor decisions and injury luck.
I read the headline as Padres when I clicked. Imagine my disappointment.
Move Bart, then have a 2 catcher rotation with Henry and Endy. Tell them both that you are battling to be the primary catcher for next season. Nothing to lose at this point of the season. Let IKF walk, then try to trade Hayes and Reynolds. Buccos need to right the ship now before our core of young pitchers age. Cruz is another cornerstone player that needs to remain in place ⚾
there’s no evidence that Endy can hit major league pitching and is only on the team because Bart was put on the IL
Hey just curious if you guys think dudes like Endy, Davis, Termar Jackson, Suwiniski, etc would have rounded out into better players in a different developmental system OR did Buccos just choose the wrong dudes to begin with in those drafts???
Endy and Suwinski were acquired in trades.
Davis and Johnson were first round draft choices.
I have not had a problem with the drafts,but to some extent because Cherington’s predecessor was so bad at it.
Both these guys were somewhat overhyped but Johnson was very young and Davis was under slot in bonus.
It takes time for young players to learn to hit ML pitching unless you are extremely talented or a very fast learner.
Endy had one really good year in AAA but has not been able to hit ML pitching.I think that he needs to go to AAA to learn how to hit again.Suwinski surprised all for two years but some of us think that he was told to take too many pitches and lost his confidence.The Pirates cannot develop hitters for whatever reason.He may have to be traded if there becomes no room for him on the Pirates.
I think that all would have done better by now in a better system.
The pitching development on the other hand seems to be much better.I have been a fan for 64 years and have never seen this much potential pitching depth in the minor leagues.
But the Pirates are now closer to the “Toothpick Company” than the “ Lumber Company”.
Last truly successful hs hitter pirates drafted developed was Cutch. International Marte is best they done. College bat someone called Barry Bonds. So you tell me! Lots of dogs wives since then.
You can watch Davis catch before going to driveline and after. Read Gonzales interview on how he built his own hitting facility and worked out with Joey Ortiz and gave Pirates zero credit on his hitting improvement. Or how Hayes snuck around to get coaching from AA minor league coach because he knew the Pirates wouldn’t let him and when they found out fired that coach. Or how Rowdy Tellez had to have his dad and childhood coach fix him when Pirates coaching couldn’t.
Suwinski was actually pirates development success possibly. His 2023 vs RHP stats were quite impressive. Then for 2024 Pirates coaching tried to cut down on k rate and get him to hit LHP. Well you can see the results of that for yourself.
Reynolds is currently their most consistent hitter and rbi leader
Trading him, who would replace him?
They don’t have anyone in the minors to replace him and Canario, despite his raw power, strikes out too often
They need to DFA Pham and promote Gorski
I’m all for trading Hayes, but they wouldn’t get a much needed power hitting third baseman to take his place and Triolo isn’t the answer at third either
It depends on what they would get for Hayes.
Triolo is a clone of Hayes as far as hitting and fielding so he could replace him for a year or two with no apparent drop in production.
Plus he is a lot cheaper.
Hayes’ top hitting level is 12-15 home runs and 270-280 batting average.
He is not carrying that and may never will.
I would trade him for a good bullpen pitcher as long as the other team takes his full contract amount.He will be untradeable if his injury returns.
Anyone can be an RBI leader if they come up to hit with a bunch of runners on base very often.
if anyone can be an rbi leader, why haven’t other players driven in more runs than Reynolds?
Don’t let IKF walk. You trade him.
They can’t even replace IKF or Hayes, let alone Reynolds, that just ruins their window with Skenes and Cruz. Trade one pitcher from the rotation and a prospect, someone like Bednar, maybe Hayes/IKF. Most of the time, teams are better of just sticking with what they have and drafting prospects or signing free agents as they receive very little in return. Give IKF another 2 years and look for an outfielder and try to groom a new closer.
I’d shop Keller and Falter for a kings ransom to a team desperate for SP. Both having their best seasons and likely to regress.
apparently you never watched Keller pitch before this season
Keller’s problem is that he either pitches like a 1 or a 5 and he tires in the second half of the season.
Kings ransom sounds nice but if you know this is there best season and likely to regress what makes you think other teams won’t realize this? Unless Huntington got a gm job……
many are ‘just’ rentals so getting back much more than middling talent will be iffy. IMO anyone with less than 4yrs remaining of control should be more than just listening available.
But really what does the team need this year to pull off a respectable rest of 2025? Bats. They started to do better the past 20games because some of their current bats have shown signs of life. Reynolds Frazier and Davis, Cutch Cruz and IKF have also done well on the season.
If they didn’t dig such a big hole for themselves adding a couple bats wouldn’t be crazy talk
If Cruz didn’t strike out so often they might have more wins
3 yesterday alone, twice with runners in scoring position
They won 5-0. His OPS is .828. He’s hardly the problem. It seems to me that EVERYBODY strikes out too much.
I know he has a high ops, but he’s too inconsistent.
And Cutch, the oldest player on the team doesn’t strike out as often as the other guys do
Cruz is a far better offensive player than an aging McCutchen.
correction
Cruz has the potential to be a far better player than Cutch who is 38 years old
Cruz is 26 so he should be a better player than Cutch
I am amazed at the sheer ignorance of those people who post nonsensical comments
If Cruz didn’t hit so many hrs and steal so many bases they would have less wins.
It’s not surprising that the media was trying to trade Skenes when the Pirates were not.
The sports media in Pittsburgh is so desperate for news…that they make up crap
Sort of like anything you read on the internet.
Just look at this guy richard…he posts the same crap over and over..and his proof is a 4 month investigation…lol that’s a joke.
And as much as I’d love to see nutting go..it’s on his terms..they can’t force him to sell…unless they find substantial evidence of non compliances
“This guy Richard” posts this factual evidence for Pittsburgh being a bad market for baseball:
2015: 3rd straight playoff year. Second best record in MLB. And the Pirates attendance was just 9th of 15 NL teams. The Brewers won only 68 games that year and had a higher attendance than the Pirates.
In the early 1990s, the Pirates couldn’t fill the stadium for the National League Championship Series.
The Pirates were a perennial World Series contender throughout the 1970s and attendance was always dismal. In fact, in 1979, when the Pirates won the World Series, they were TENTH of the Twelve NL teams in attendance.
In 2023, the Pirates ranked 26th in total revenue. And in 2024, they LOST money.
So Richard, do you have a stake in a sell or move of the pirates? I doubt that you do. It’s just amazing that you spend so much time with posting the same crap. Pittsburgh and it’s regional territory supports a winner. To get an attendance of 2.5 to 3 million is about as much as you can expect. Don’t forget blue collar job loss has a lot to do with a low attendance. White collar jobs tend not to go to as many games. Richard are you a lifetime pittsburger? If you have followed the pirates for 50 years or more, like most of our posters, you would have a different take. So Richard I suggest that you do some real investigations on the rich baseball history in Pittsburgh. As for me the league will never allow the team to leave. One of the oldest and storied franchises. Best ballpark in baseball. The pirates are not the A’s. So come on and quit your obnoxious posts.
Lmao.
If excuses created revenue, you’d get hired.
When the Pirates fired Shelton and replaced him with Kelly, many pooh-poohed Kelly as just a Shelton clone. The Pirates under Shelton were 12-26 this year, while under Kelly they are 10-11. While still a small sample, but I am wondering what people’s thoughts on Kelly now are. Can’t credit it all to Reynolds finally hitting as that Reynolds has been hitting only for about two weeks or half the games.
It’s being reported that Reynolds sudden resurgence is attributed to Kelly sitting him for 2 consecutive games to work on his swing
Manager is almost irrelevant. Last year they had winning record and few games out at deadline under Shelton. Even though he was a awful truly awful manager. August he kept going to Bednar Holderman when they clearly didn’t have it. He lost the team. He needed to be fired. Should have been fired in 2022 because he is a awful manager. But once you lose the team you have to go. They brought him back. Right from the start Bednar Holderman who still didn’t have it. If he ever regained the team he mist them again. Last 2 weeks he was clearly a broken man who given up.
With a gm as awful as Cherington manager is irrelevant.
Kelly isn’t intelligent. He kept going to Holderman. Started Pham. But once he realized Canario is better and who isn’t better than Pham he showed he could learn a bit at least. Team got behind him so that’s something. Having Reynolds able to hit. Horwitz. Bednar. It helps.
GM is problem. Cherington is a nice guy. You need a strong confident leader though. That’s not Cherington. I’m telling Shelton the next time you have Bednar close a game is the last time you manage a MLB team. Even a bigger problem is Cherington could have thought Bednar was good still.
Horowitz hasn’t exactly set the world on fire either since coming off of the IL
Kelly certainly wasn’t intelligent in yesterday’s game
Rainey who averages 6 walks per 9 innings shouldn’t have been brought in, in such a tight situation
A 2 run lead, he’s the last pitcher to replace Shugart in the 7th inning and should be the first pitcher dfa when Holderman comes off the IL
Rainey averages 7 per 9 but it was 3.7 until yesterday.
Never a high leverage pitcher.
Never suitable unless the team had a big lead or was losing.
His body of work is not good.
Never should have been in that game.
Maybe the Pirates figured their mistake out fairly quickly.
But good teams do not make that kind of decision in the first place.
Kelly at least brings fire to the position.
They would have lost 110 games under Shelton.
I have been saying for over two years that he should have been fired.
Kelly seems to control his bullpen better and the lineups do not seem to be based on a confetti drop.
A trained baboon could have done better than Shelton,and the jury is still out on Kelly,but I do think that he has basically done a fairly good job in maximizing the team’s talent.
Thanks to both for your comments. Are either of you concerned that if Kelly is a significant improvement over Shelton, it just might save Cherington’s job? (Assumption on my part that neither of you are Cherington fans. Apologies if I am wrong.)
I have thought about that, Skeptical.
As much as I want Cherington gone, I still want the team to suceed.
It’s like being between a rock and a hard place
Skeptical-You have a fine pen name.I have always admired it from behind the scenes because with the Pirates one has to be able to hedge their bets between positive and negative.
I have to addend my previous post as I have become skeptical.
If I were a manager I would have two relievers ready in any close game.
I see that Kelly brought in Tanner Rainey in the seventh inning of a 4-2 game against a team with one of the best bullpens in baseball.
Tanner Rainey was having a bad year in AAA and is not a ML pitcher.
I was concerned that Kelly is also not the brightest bulb in the pack and once again the Pirates snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
Shelton had to be protected from himself.
Cherington needs to release Tanner Rainey and bring up Bozo the Clown if he has to do so.
I know that they do not want to overwork relievers but that is why you make sure that you have enough good ones.
Burrowes is not a starter.Make him into a reliever at AAA.
Bring up Bubba to replace him.
In direct answer,Kelly would have to have a 500 record and in all honesty I think that he is better than Shelton,and is getting decent players back from IL,but will not nearly make the 500 record for his almost one year tenure.
But Nutting does like him because he is a “Pittsburgh guy”.
Cherington’s only saving grace would be for Nutting to bring in an older President of Baseball Operations over him and fire Williams.
Nutting is too cheap and not smart enough to do that.
He could save money though by firing the extra 10 bean counters that Cherington thinks he needs..
with an off day today, Kelly could have used Santana or Borucki in the 7th inning instead of using Rainey
Kelly gave a half witted explanation of why he used Rainey and his slider.
That slider has resulted in a 10.57 era this year.
Rainey has to be gone from the organization asap.
This distresses me about Kelly though.
Let Shugart pitch the 7th,Santana the 8th,and Bednar the 9th.
This is not nuclear science.
These guys all have an off day today.
If overworked,use Ashcraft tomorrow as the long reliever.
Burrowes is not a ML starter.
Bring up Bubba to start and DFA Rainey.
See if Ashcraft can continue his good work of his first few ML appearances.
And learn how to use your bullpen,or suffer the same fate as Shelton.
I don’t keep track of usage or know guys health. But Borucki would been awful choice.
He pitched very well in April.Not good in May.
The pen is still under achieving.
Shugart,Santana,Bednar.
Team needs wins.
No player is truly untouchable.
Phillies acquire:
O’Niell Cruz CF (arb 1)
Adam Frazier UTIL (1/$2M)
David Bednar RHP (1/$8M)
Pirates acquire:
Johan Rojas CF
Justin Crawford CF (#3)
Gabriel Rincones Jr. RF (#10)
Mick Abel RHP (#7)
Alex McFarlane RHP (#16)
Otto Kemp 1B (#18)
Frazier & Bednar have very little value – maybe if the Phillies take on their salaries, they could acquire O’Niell Cruz for 5 top 20 prospects – including their new CF tandem, that will cover a lot of ground in that park.
Maybe no players in Philly are untouchable but Cruz is, despite your wishes
Bednar is probably gone at the deadline though
Philly can keep their garbage
Homers always overestimate the talent of the players that they propose to trade for your good players.
Those Phillies players are not garbage but they are mostly unproven and would be a quantity versus quality deal.
I could also see a better development team transform Cruz’ obvious physical talent into an Acuna type player much better than the Pirates have done.
You can take out Crawford and get Bednar Frazier and another reliever or Heaney. Abel alone would probably get Bednar Frazier. Crawford who has shown no power won’t get Cruz. Power cost $. You are buying a super star as well. Pittsburgh if you haven’t heard is a bad baseball market. Put that height hair smile exit velocity in a mega city and you have a star. Cut down the K and teach him outfield you have a super star. There’s plenty of room to improve. As is he is looking like an at least 30 30 guy. Would take multiple multiple top 100 prospects or a blue chipper.
Bednar as one of the better relievers in baseball with another year of team control has very little value? Come on now.
AC Surf Baseball;
LOL
Dave Dombrowski is a baseball guy.
He’s not putting Oneil Cruz on his team. Period.
As I mentioned above – start with Arte and the guy that owns the Rockies. Maybe Jerry Dipoto in Seattle.
Statcast “hard hit balls”; and “arm strength” are for people with 12 year-old mentalities seeking entertainment that think those things have anything at all to do with helping their teams win games.
Samuel- Ever hear of Roberto Clemente?
He had pretty good arm strength.
This is beneath you.
Tell you what, have the Pirates go up for sale and let’s see who bids on the team.
No it isn’t but I am surprised that arm strength,which is one of the five tools,is not on your list.
It is something,like speed,that cannot be taught.
There would be plenty of buyers if the price was fair.
Like ML GMs,there are only thirty ML team owners in the world.
He may not get $1.3B like Forbes says that it is worth,but he will make plenty on his original investment,nevertheless.
Samuel- Do you really think that Cruz is not a clear improvement over Marsh and Rojas?
Come on Samuel.
We already know what the deadline plans are. Bundle some of the best prospects for a mediocre, past their prime player. But wait, Tommy Pham is already with the team. They have been rebuilding like a New York highway since the 80’s.
They are stupid but not stupid enough to trade away their best prospects for past prime mediocre. They won’t be trading them for anything at deadline.
They are that stupid. Just ask their fans.
Sorry-I cannot respond to Arabic.
Pirates fans are not stupid except that they still follow an historic losing team.
And the management team is often quite stupid.
Maybe the true fans know more than you do.
What a dumb comment. No wonder why people block you.
When I was referring to they are stupid, I was speaking of the multiple salary dump trades, the blocking of Bednar in his prime, overpay of player like Horwitz, and endless situations like the signing guys who just don’t make sense.
Mendoza and Dream are two of the most knowledgeable people that post here about the Bucs.
Maybe its you who should be muted
You are certainly more than welcome to block me.
It opens me up to say whatever I want to say about you.
Commenters like you rarely add to the discussion.
You do not even have a name that people can or want to respond to.
I do not necessarily agree with salary dumps either but they are done when the team is no good and what is the difference between 95 and 100 losses.?
The Pirates were trying to put a good team together which needs a good closer and Bednar was a local guy which is important for marketing purposes to Nutting.
Horwitz has been up for like three weeks and you are dumping on him already?
Not sure what the endless situations are but the mistakes that they make do not cost them much money unlike numerous other teams.He also have made excellent signings in Anderson,Quintana,and Heaney.
You are contradicting yourself poster without a name.
Thank you Paul.
I consider it a badge of honor if a knucklehead mutes me.
I am only aware of one who has done that and he was an a hole Dodgers fan.
Pirates fans and many others are bigger fans of complaining than fans of the actual team. Salary dump! It’s just business 101. You trim waste. If an employee isn’t providing value you get rid of them. You put that $ elsewhere or keep it in Nuttings case! I don’t know if does and don’t care. He should make $.
Every trade Cherington Huntington made I would have as well. And more. Hayes Bednar Reynolds would have been gone. If you are going to rebuild then rebuild. Everything goes. Cruz Skenes should be available too. I am rooting for them to be traded. Because if they are it means you received more value otherwise you don’t trade them. There not being traded. Not even listening on them. And that’s a problem. Doesn’t hurt to listen.
You said the pirates would be far from average in attendance if they sold out every game, right?
That’s just pathetic . Maybe look that up first and try to do simple arithmetic .
I agree with you, but the small aspect I would like to add to it is if they didn’t have a salary that shouldn’t have been put on the books to begin with, they wouldn’t have to dump it or make it more enticing to another organization by sprinkling in prospects.
@Vealparm What are you doing with your multiple business degrees and your multiple statistics degrees? Where’s your wife? Just wondering not only how you are able to reply to comments but to go read through them all and insert yourself into a new conversation you were never part of? Don’t you have a fortune 500 company to run or the wife doesn’t have anything better for you to do?
Why pay Liriano when you can throw in some garbage prospects and have that $? They weren’t helping you win. Why not keep that $? You want to spend more $ to lose the same amount of games? 2020 2021 2022 they were trying to lose. Why spend $ to lose? I’m just a dum dum trying to get my ged so veal with his multiple business degrees and statistics degrees from Trump University would be the expert on this. Or his wife Dr Veal.
$@&#&@$#&-Liriano was a fine pitcher for the Pirates his first year of the three year contact.
He started out poorly his second year so they dumped him to the Blue Jays with two mediocre prospects.They saved $25M in doing so.
They had peaked the previous three years and could not resign the better players.They knew that they probably would not compete for the WS in 2016.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with a salary dump,nor that they had signed him to that contract since he had done so well for the Pirates for four years.
The Marte and Bell trades were salary dumps because they were not going to compete for several years.
They both had absolutely nothing to do with making bad contracts in the first place.
Bednar will fetch much more than you think.
Abel had one good game against the depleted Pirates.
Rojas can’t hit.
Crawford is a fine prospect but that is what he is,a prospect.
The others are coin flips.
Hard pass.
The Pirates need ML players now in any trade involving players with more than two months of control.
exactly, Mendoza
Ben isn’t about to trade for players that aren’t major league ready or rentals
Abel is a fine pitching prospect. I wouldn’t discount his performance just because he was facing the Pirates.
Abel is pitching well this year in AAA.
It is a mental change for him from last year when he had a very bad year but he does have talent.
He beat the “non Lumber Company” Pirates.Let’s not get carried away.
But for me you have to prove yourself in AAA for a significant amount of time before you become a promising ML player.
Huntington used to get ML ready players in trades.Not sure that Abel is ML ready.
The Pirates ranked 26th of 30 MLB teams in total revenue (including revenue sharing) in 2023 So, their 2025 payroll also ranks 26th.
Their payroll is low because their revenue is low. And their revenue is low because Pittsburgh has always been a bad market for baseball.
d3data.sportico.com/MLBValuations2024/MLBVal.html
legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/
But 26th is great!!!
I read that right here
Adam Frazier are also pending free agents, but have struggled this year
Looks like Frazier best year since 2021 to me
They actually have needed him to fill in for Gonzalez.He has done OK especially for the money.
Cut the expiring payroll come the trade deadline and sign the same type of players to “support” their young core again next season. Rinse & repeat. Pirates will always be stuck in neutral….
Heaney and Ferguson are probably guaranteed to be moved. Pham hasn’t finished a whole season with one team since 2021 and that streak will probably continue. Frazier can be offered as a bench piece that will bring back a lotto ticket or two
He’ll be a starting 2b likely if traded. Not a base stealer. Can only play 2b. No power. Not ideal for a bench player.
He can handle the OF corners as well as 2B so there is defensive versatility
You better sell at deadline instead of buy if you need Frazier in corners. Bat only plays at 2b. Not a good outfielder. Sure you can throw him out there.
RsoxHeaney has done well and I would start offering him now as I would not trade him for any lotto tickets.
Cherington has done very well with Anderson,Quintana,and Heaney.
Have to give credit where it is due.
Rsox- I have to ask you.
I always thought that they should go for Casas before they got Horwitz.
Casas was not hitting well this year before his injury but he had the power that the Pirates need.
Is he a good hitter,and will he come back well from his injury next year?
At this point you have listen! Keller and both lefties plus Hayes for sure and Reynolds.
Heaney is definitely getting traded, but I think the best trade that can be made to acquire better hitting is Bailey Falter.
Barco is coming to replace him in rotation.
Barco is getting beat up in AAA.
Keep Falter.He does not strike out people but he had the third best month in Pirates history.
And that is a long history.
Maybe look up Barco’s game log first before posting.
You’re batting .500 in the comment section.
That was obviously directed at the other poster who’s unaware of Barco’s AAA numbers.
VP-Not sure who Scott responded to.
You’re right.I only saw the first two games statistics,and not the third.
Three games started,7 2/3 innings total.Putting in 2 2/3 innings per start.
May be limiting his innings?Maybe not.They should do at least four innings.
148 batting average against is outstanding.
Nine walks in that three games,now that seems to me to be pretty bad.
Let’s let Barco actually do something in AAA before he is compared to a mature Sandy Koufax.
@mendoza
Who’s comparing him to Koufax? I said he can be the next Bailey Falter.
You’re posting like a Troll.
And you are getting saucy.
Barco has not proven anything.
Nine walks in less than 8 innings.
In AAA!
Whip of 1.70
Top outing- three innings!
Replacing a guy who has just had an historic month.
Harrington has not proven anything at AAA.Solomieto was can’t miss.
You are saying that Barco can replace someone who is pitching at a ML All Star level for two months?
I thought that you were better than that.
Was I wrong?