5:49pm: Ken Davidoff of Newsday tweets that the Nationals will guarantee Wang $2MM, with a chance to more than double that through incentives.
12:37pm: Heyman now tweets that the Dodgers have "pulled out of the Wang derby."
10:32am: SI's Jon Heyman tweets that Dodgers execs Ned Colletti and Logan White are watching Wang throw today. Heyman presumes the Dodgers are the second finalist for the righty. Still, one Chico Harlan Nationals source seems to believe they're the favorite.
8:59am: MASN's Ben Goessling reports that Wang is still seven to ten days from a decision, and nothing has changed since yesterday. MLB.com's Bill Ladson tweets that nothing is close between the Nationals and Wang, though they remain a finalist. Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports that the Nationals and one other team have made offers.
7:52am: Righty Chien-Ming Wang has chosen the Nationals and is close to a deal, tweets Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe.
Wang, 30 in March, had surgery to repair a torn ligament in his right shoulder capsule on July 29th of last year. On January 28th, Wang's agent Alan Nero told ESPN's Jayson Stark that his client is expected to "make a major-league start sometime in the first two weeks of May." Wang will join Jason Marquis and John Lannan in Washington's rotation, with the remaining spots to be determined during Spring Training.
The Dodgers, Phillies, Cardinals, and Mets were also linked to Wang this winter.
Woo-Hoo!!!!!!! Folks, you can’t blame the Nats for failing to try. Hopefully, Wang can regain even 3/4 of his form.
Wang should sign with the Hiroshima Carp of the NPB.
One of the few moves I like from the Nats this offseason…
Can’t evaluate this without the numbers but the risk isn’t too bad for a team that isn’t contending anyway. If he comes back, you have a good pitcher; if he doesn’t, then you still would’ve had a bad team regardless.
He can even be traded before the deadline if he shows that he can pitch again.
The only thing I would worry about is that when Wang is on, he’s a great ground ball pitcher. However, the Nats INF defense minus Zimmerman is a little disheartening for a guy who depends on the fielders behind him.
“Can’t evaluate this without the numbers but the risk isn’t too bad for a team that isn’t contending anyway. If he comes back, you have a good pitcher; if he doesn’t, then you still would’ve had a bad team regardless.”
LOL, I think that sums it up. As a a Yankee fan I wish Wang the best of luck, nice and quiet guy. Never had that killer instinct you want out of your number 1 though, saw that difference clearly when watching Sabathia in the big games as compared to Chien-Ming Wang.
You know Sabathia is an unquestioned beast that can take on any other #1 pitcher in the game and win, never got that confident vibe in Wang’s big matchups in the playoffs, you were always hedging your bets.
Best of luck to him though, will be interesting to watch and see what he has left after two shoulder surgeries in his career.
“Never had that killer instinct you want out of your number 1 though”
Because he doesnt yell or fist pump? Judging a player based on what you think his ‘killer instinct’ is, is pretty ridiculous.
And it’s not fair to compare CC and Wang as pitchers, CC is a top 5-10 pitcher in the AL, Wang is not and was never that, regardless of how many Ws he had.
True, I was just looking at it as the #1 ace matchups, when we would match Wang up with Beckett, Halladay, Santana, etc.
Truth be told some fans always said Wang was a #2 at best, its just that by putting together those two 19 wins seasons, expectations were he was a top flight ace type pitcher.
Right, just because Wang was #1 in the rotation doesnt mean he is an ace-like pitcher. He’s not on the level of Felix, CC, Lee, Verlander, Doc, etc; and if fans thought he was just because he won 19 twice then that shows that fans need to re-evaluate how they look at their players.
But he would have been a very good #2 sitting behind CC and the team would have somehow been even better than it was, unfortunately he wasnt healthy.
Oops where’s the dislike button at? Christ..
Good move for the Nats.
I was hoping he was in the Cards (pun intended) for St. Louis. Imagine what he’d do if Duncan got a hold of him.
Probably the same boring sinker-ball, pitch to contact junk
I could see him having a carbon-copy of Mulder’s STL career from the right-side………………… One “OK” year, and then going into a total free-fall as he gets pounded into oblivion.
Or….he could be like Joel Piniero, Jeff Suppan, Ryan Franklin, or Jeff Weaver.
Or Jason Marquis, Garrett Stephenson, Simontacchi, Wellemeyer, etc………..
I see alot of similarity between Wang and Mulder, tbh, as far as their ‘stuff’ and career paths go.
Great job, Rizzo. Take the money saved by signing Kennedy instead of Hudson, and buy some upside starting pitching. By mid season, could we be seeing:
Lannan
Marquis
Strasburg
Zimmermann
Wang?
I think it’d be a mistake to give Strasburg anything more than late season spot start this year.
That said, if Wang regains most of what he was then the Nats could be a darkhorse in 2011.
Zimmermann isn’t coming back this year.
True, it’d be awhile before he pitched in a game, but I can’t believe the Mets just sat on this. Actually, let me rephrase that…after this horrible offseason, it’s no surprise the Mets just sat on this.
Wang was definitely one of my favorite pitchers in NY. Hope he does well with Nats.
This is a good move, and if Wang shows that he still has it he is a solid 2,3,4 starter. Might be a nice fit along with Marquis and if some of the potential top of the rotation guys start to fulfill their potential the Nats should start moving up.
Wang is close to signing….wait…..he’s 7 to 10 days from signing…it’s gonna snow…wait…rain..wait….sleet…These sports tweets are about as accurate as the weathermen around here.
Could be a great signing. Although I wouldnt be too confident about any team with a 1 2 3 of Marquis/Lannen/Wang I do really like that kid Stammen. Good, low risk move for the Nats if this ends up really happening.
Wang is close to signing….wait…..he’s 7 to 10 days from signing…it’s gonna snow…wait…rain..wait….sleet…These sports tweets are about as accurate as the weathermen around here.
Great Move for the Nats. Depends on the contract but this guy is really good when hes healthy. If he can pitch in the AL East, pretty sure he can pitch in the NL East. i could see a rotation: Marquis-Lannan-Wang-Olsen-Stammen/Straburg…. The 4 and 5 spots would be the only uncertain spots that are up for grabs but those would be the 3 i think have the best chance to grab them but its anyones game.
No donuts for Pete.
Peter Abraham…Have you ever thought about retiring from being a writer/reporter?That would be a good choice to make.I laughed when I saw ‘he’s 7 to 10 days from signing. You can’t predict when he’s gonna sign .He could just change his mind and sign with some other damn team that Wang hasn’t even been mentioned to sign with..Horrible Sports Tweets I swear.
man i hope this isnt true…i wanted the phils to gamble on him as the 5th starter…oh well…it isnt final yet, but i doubt the phils even made him an offer
they did, they also made one to ben sheets to but so much for that
Nice to see Pete Abraham is still a blowhard, He probably still spends his days obsessed and tweeting about Arod breathing.
Pete never met an Arod pot shot he didn’t take. You would have thought Arod stiffed him of a couple of happy meals or something.
Now he is claiming a guy is close to signing with a team definitively then we hear otherwise later. Sheesh.
nice move for whoever gets him, assuming the contract isnt too high in guaranteed money. a good low risk, high reward signing if someone buys low. I just hope he’s not Daniel Cabrera round 2.
I really hope the Dodgers sign him. If he comes back healthy, we will have a nice pitching staff.
I had hoped the O’s Would have picked him up. All-Well.
It would be great if the Dodgers signed a player with some upside rather than the dozen or so journeyman utility players and pitchers who are washed up…
I was so excited, and now the Dodgers are utterly in the picture. This has all the makings of an “in it ’til the end” situations for the Nats, and heartbreak for Nats fans. Make it happen, Mike Rizzo. Pay the man, and sign the player.
As for those who tell the Nats to know their place and spend their money in other ways because they stink, please just stop. The Nats could sign C-MW and still be below last year’s payroll. They got out from under some bad Jim Bowden contracts, and have the money to spend this year.
Fans of big-market teams complain that losing teams don’t spend enough in this era of revenue-sharing, but then condescendingly state that signing free agents is a bad idea because the team can’t compete. You know what? We deserve a better team than we’ve had, and the Nats aren’t the only team with a small chance at the playoffs this year. DC shouldn’t just sit by and let others fine tune their clubs and hope for “someday”.
Amen brother. My thoughts exactly.
yea ppl say that about lower class clubs, but now look at the M’s low class team two years ago, winning record last year, and went there gm went all brian cashman, and i think the nats will finish with a positive record
I really hate Omar Minaya.
I’m glad Logan White didn’t let Ned handle this situation all by himself. If White decides Wang isn’t worthwhile, congrats Nats. If he does like Wang, I’m happy. It’s a good day either way.
If the Dodgers sign this guy it will be a cheap contract. Since they knew Jason Schmidt had a torn roter cuff and still signed him anything is possible. Another pitcher with a major injury, marginal major league type to add to the collection. If you sign enough
S**t some of it will stick.
I agree. It’s hard to imagine that Wang would get anything more than a 1 year deal, if even a major league offer. Other injury hampered pitchers (Sheets/Bedard) signed for 1 year deals. I see Wang signing a deal similar to Bedard’s $1.5M base w. incentives deal, but hope that if the Dodgers do sign him, its to a non-guaranteed minor league contract.
link to news.chinatimes.com
According to ChinaTimes, Nationals signed Wang one-year deal. The contract, which has a $2 million base salary and up to $3 million in incentives.
I tried to look at an automatic translation, but it was pretty disjointed. At what time would that have come out? It would certainly have been early this morning, given the time difference.
2 hrs ago
Thanks, friend. Is there any chance that the China Times has an English edition? The translation I read was garbled, although I could see it discussed the 40-man roster and still mentioned something about 7 to 10 days. Are there any important points you could translate for us (beyond the most important one about the signing)?
Heyman: “Dodgers pull out of Wang derby”. So if they watched him throw, it’d seem they didn’t like what they saw….
That could be, but given their constraints, they may have heard his price and backed out.
You really want this, don’t you? Nice to see some enthusiasm from a Nats fan.
Make a late run for him Neal!
Dodgers have “pulled out of the Wang derby.” Premature? My double entendre for the day….
Beat me to it. Would have been better had he said, “Dodgers pull out their Wang…offer, that is.” Or something like that.
“Pulled out of the Wang derby”
LOL.
Not exactly sure how I feel about the Dodgers pulling out of the Wang Derby.
Gonna get angry if he signs for cheap with the Nats.
“the Dodgers have “pulled out of the Wang derby.””
…I see what you did there.
have fun losing in washington d.c. wang…
“Pulled out of the Wang derby”….man oh man that is a classic headline. Underappreciated, but classic none-the-less….
My guess is with the Dodgers now being out of the picture, they didn’t like what they saw with Wang’s development from shoulder surgery. I don’t know about the rest of you, but that just throws up a red flag for me.
Can’t wait to hear the Nationals’ broadcaster say this: “Wang and the Nats enter Busch for a 3-game series against the Redbirds”
Mulder & Wang are nothing alike. Mulder had better stuff pre-injury.
i dont get it washington wasnt willing to give 5 mill to hudson as a sure thing but their willing to take a big chance of wang and give him 2 mill wicth can go up to 4 mill with incentives WTF?
Hahahaha: ‘the Dodgers have “pulled out of the Wang derby.”‘
If you don’t pull out of the wang derby, you could be a parent before you know it.
If Wang has a bad outing, I can see the headline: “Riggleman Pulls Wang”
For a team like Washington, it isn’t about a few pieces that they need to add — they need MANY pieces.
This team needs to add a lot of quality players in order to compete. The mistake would be adding one mediocre player at a time (Jason Marquis). Not only is there an explicit opportunity cost here (Using that money for drafts, minor league improvements, future FAs, etc) but if a team needs much more to compete, then the WAR is simply not worth as much.
First of all, Marquis has a 4.82 career FIP. Signing a guy like that after a career year (which wasn’t that “great”) is usually a bad move anyway.
Second, you have to think how much of an improvement he is: Maybe 2 WAR? Surely he will regress back to his usual form. Is 2 WAR worth it? Will Jason Marquis sell more tickets?
The WAR value distribution is a curve. WAR is much more valuable to teams in a competitive division. (AL West) However, the Yankees (for instance) and the Nats don’t need the extra wins because one team is highly likely to make the playoffs while the other is not, respectively. Plus, you get higher draft picks with worse records. Is it worth spending millions to go from absolute last place to maybe 4th to last while losing your draft slot?
Also, the Nats will not be competing for at least a couple of years. There are better ways to improve a ball club than to just sign mediocre FAs. (international drafts, medical staff, improved minor facilities, etc) You can’t tell me the Nats have maxed out these other options.
Take Billy Beane for example: his strategy has always been to take on high upside/risk players and trade them for prospects. He’s been pretty successful even when working with a minuscule payroll like the Nats.
“If Wang succeeds in Washington they can then resign him and have a valuable pitcher going into the future when they likely will be competing.”
What’s to stop other teams from signing him if he succeeds? They can’t. They will have to trade him and that would be the best plan anyway.
I am not against signing discounted guys to be place fillers. However, guys like Pudge and Marquis were not cheap. The Nats paid premium (plus more with Pudge) prices.
Please name a team that succeeded with signing mediocre players one at a time. Maybe not a successful team, but I guess the Royals are the closest. I don’t have to mention how well that team is doing with that strategy…
“Both Pudge and Marquis are guys who can mentor the young team.”
Really? You want Marquis to teach how to post a career 4.82 FIP? And I find this “veteran presence” thing to be completely dubious. Talent makes a team good — not how many old people are on a team. How many young guys actually improve after being “mentored”?
Marquis is a 2 WAR player. You make it sound like he’s a 5 WAR player. Again, is a 2-3 win upgrade really that important to you? Especially coming at this price?
Marquis is on a two year premium deal. A prospect could stay on a team for 7+ years (Most of these years being very cheap). That is why you go with prospects. That is why draft slots are worth more than 2 wins for a team that doesn’t need 2 wins.
“Wang they could resign before the season is over, or in their EXCLUSIVE negotiating time period with their own players. So they can in fact stop other teams from signing him.”
That is assuming Wang gives them a discount. Which is unlikely unless they offer him a multi-year deal. (Which isn’t what you want with a guy with an injury plagued career) Otherwise, you will have to pay the market price for him. (Which is also not worth the prospects he could net)
Low budget teams compete and improve through prospects and draft picks. The A’s, Rangers and the Rays are a few examples. You don’t pay premium prices for guys that really won’t do much good anyway. (the Royals)
The Nats have a pretty good 1-2-3 punch once you factor in Strasburg but they need a lot more than that before signing missing pieces.
“Mentors don’t really improve the abilities of the other players, they lead the team and give advice that only a player could give.”
And what would that be? Especially what is it that they didn’t already learn from their minor league coaches and trainers? Most of whom were players themselves. What is this magical advice that only other veteran players possess? I guess major league coaches and trainers are also devoid of this power to mentor?
“Considering all the other pitchers on their team were in the negative WAR last season because they flat out suck does in fact make Marquis a huge upgrade. -2 to 2 is an upgrade of 4.”
Hrmm? The worst starter the Nats had last year came at a -.6 WAR. (Collin Balester)
The average WAR for the Nats starters last year was actually positive. Therefore, Marquis would be worth less than 2 WAR.
“Marquis is there to be consistent, and eat innings.”
The same was said to me about Livan and Tim Redding. 4-5 ERA of 200 innings isn’t worth a two year 15 million dollar contract.
“You can’t build a team completely off of draft picks, prospects usually don’t pan out. So having players that are proven successful is of the utmost importance, the COMBINATION is what makes winning teams.”
That is only true once you have a good prospect core. At the premature stages of rebuilding, it is not prudent to sign players. Again, these are MEDIOCRE players you are signing at a premium. If you wanted stop gaps then you sign high risk/reward type players so that you can trade them for prospects.
Look at Pavano, who posted a much better season last year. How much did he receive? How many years?
“The coaches are like bosses, they aren’t members of the team like the players are. They don’t go out onto the field every day with the younger players.”
You’re saying guys like pitching coaches are bosses? Most of these guys were players before. Coaches are the ones helping young guys — that is their job.
“The Nationals didn’t have any pitchers that were reliable and consistent last year, I didn’t know the actual WAR numbers, and frankly I don’t care what they are. In my opinion, useless advanced statistic.”
So you were wrong and the best rebuttal is to just throw away numbers? Is this some sort of new debating technique? Let’s get rid of impartial evidence and insert our biased opinions instead.
“Marquis won’t have an ERA of 5, people underestimate the guy.”
Or perhaps you are overestimating him? I guess I could point to a 4.82 FIP AGAIN or maybe every projection in the world having him at a 4-5 ERA next season or the fact that he never posted a FIP below 4.10 before. I guess I could do that but what’s the point? You’re just going to throw them out and call them “useless”.
“Pavano had a good season? Are you joking with me right now? An ERA of 5.10, what was that better than exactly? ”
Pavano had better peripherals than his ERA would suggest. Pavano is the guy who posted the better FIP year playing in the AL. Is it his fault, as a contact pitcher, that he was playing in front of two of the worst defensive teams last year?
So you would rather take on a 2 year 15 mil contract instead of a 1.5 mil (plus incentives) 1 year deal?
“Nationals do have a good young core: Zimmerman, Morgan, Flores, Dunn, Kennedy.”
Out of those guys only Zimmerman and Dunn are sure things when it comes to production. (Maybe Morgan too) And out of these guys only Morgan and Zimmerman are young. (Don’t know why you threw in Kennedy; Adam Dunn is approaching 30 plus his defense is horrendous)
“They have constantly had different guys pitching for them in their rotation and practically none of them are ever any good or last for any amount of time.”
Tell me again why a 2 year 15mil contract is better than a high reward/risk type pitcher? Even if Marquis pulls another 4.1 FIP season, he is not attractive to other teams. However, a guy like Wang, Sheets, Bedard, Harden would net prospects if they are productive.
I really don’t want to bother with you if you insist on just throwing away fundamental analysis. Heck, why bother with sabermetrics at all? Let’s just use the outdated wins stat instead! Who needs FIP and WAR? Just because some of us are lazy and refuse to acknowledge advanced statistics that don’t uphold our biased feelings.
Here: Marquis had 15 wins. He deserves that contract. (The Tim Redding argument)
Plus, he adds that “veteran” consistency that this team needs. You know, kind of like a magic potion that no one knows what it really is but must be real.
I guess all those years when he was consistently garbage doesn’t count? You want to use the outdated ERA stat? Well, he has a 4.48 career ERA. Is that worth 15 mil for two years?
I don’t think you seem to understand what 15 mil feels like. It may not be your money, but that is a lot to be spending on a guy who is probably two wins above a replacement. I’ve dissected the main points of your argument but you continue to stay on the whole “veteran” presence and “underestimated” phenomenon. I guess we’ll just have to take your word for it. Stats are useless I suppose. (All those statisticians and analysts with those college degrees… WHO NEEDS ‘HEM?!) Instead of spending money elsewhere in minor league facilities, international drafts, a better medical staff (Which I guess Mets fan don’t seem to appreciate), etc., you find it prudent to fork over 15 mil for two years of 4-5 FIP for a team that won’t do be going anywhere anyhow. How can I argue that? I can’t — it’s just nonsensical.
Observing the Mets’ activities as someone with no interest in the team whatsoever makes the Dodger off season, which I do have an interest in, much more palatable.
Really it is not that big of a deal to spend that much time writing comment.
dang. right afer reading your guys arguement i just had to take a nap. you guys a show on espn cause that was good debating right there
Of course, just ignore them; Ignore formulas and statistics.
Ignorance is bliss.
It’s a snow day here, there is plenty of time. It really doesn’t take much time if you know what you’re writing about.
At least I have something constructive to add.
Do you?
strikethree has never played sports. he’s probably some nerd that thinks numbers are the only reason anything functions. dude is saying that having a guy that can eat innings is important. if he can average 7 innings a start, that will save the bullpen from so many meltdowns. show me a stat that shows me how marquis will save a few bullpen arms from dead arm or getting tired towards the end of a season. and you don’t talk to your pitching coach the same way you talk to a vet, you would know that if you played any sports that weren’t video games. what is wrong with having marquis? if they sign wang and Strass is the real deal, what is wrong with your rotation being strass, marquis and wang?
wang wouldnt be the number one guy unless he has one heck of a spring training dude
I guess you’re right. What do I know? Please tell me which MLB team you play for? Tell us your experiences.
Do you know how to capitalize? It’s the shift button by the way.
“f he can average 7 innings a start”
Average 7 innings? From a guy who never averaged 7 innings before? I don’t think you know what “average” means.
“that will save the bullpen from so many meltdowns”
That bullpen is just downright BAD. Save them from what? Themselves? Please tell me which guy was overworked. Tyler Clippard posted the most relief innings and ended with a 2.69 ERA. Ouch, he was sooooo overworked.
“and you don’t talk to your pitching coach the same way you talk to a vet”
Not only do you not know how to capitalize, you can’t seem to comprehend written English. (Well I suppose if you’re too lazy to press the shift button…) If you actually READ what I wrote then you would understand that my whole point was arguing the VALUE of the deal. Guess what? You can find “vets” that can be GOOD like Harden, Sheets, Bedard and Wang. You can find vets that won’t cost multi year deals. And, you act as if players have to teach other players anything. (News Flash: They don’t)
The educational system of this country is downright atrocious. You have people throwing away evidence that are too “complex”, people who voted for Bush, and people who think that being smart is a crime. Enjoy getting a good job with that mindset.
what is the point of saying that i don’t use the shift button. i know i don’t and don’t care. not once did i say i played in the majors. but i have played pro ball and got more knowledge about baseball than you can ever read about. show me a stat that gauges the killer instinct that a play possesses. oh, you can’t. marquis averaged 6.54 innings a start last year. for a non contending team it is very possible he’ll stay in games later than when he was with the rockies. the only reason harden, sheets, bedard and wang got one year deals is because they can’t stay healthy. marquis is the type of pitcher that’ll be there every 5th start. since healthy players don’t get the incentive contracts like injury-prone players, sometimes you have to overpay for what you want. half the crap you wrote has nothing to do with baseball. chill out dude, you seem like an angry little prick that hasn’t ever gotten any pussy.
“played pro ball and got more knowledge about baseball than you can ever read about”
Sure. You are a baseball god.
“show me a stat that gauges the killer instinct that a play possesses”
Killer instinct? Are these murderers or baseball players? Jason Marquis is a killer? Are you listening to yourself? Talent always beats “killer instincts” (in fact these instincts are incorporated into talent). Good players reflect these talents through results and their stats. I admit, I don’t know these players. You also don’t know these players and yet you are vouching for them.
“6.54 innings a start last year.”
And you think he’ll repeat that? What is his career average? Much less.
“for a non contending team it is very possible he’ll stay in games late”
What is the point of that? To save a bullpen that isn’t good anyway? To keep non existent playoff chances alive?
“the only reason harden, sheets, bedard and wang got one year deals is because they can’t stay healthy.”
That is the point. They are high risk/reward players. If they succeed, you trade them for prospects. Billy Beane does this all the time. Who would give up prospects for Jason Marquis at his price tag?
“ince healthy players don’t get the incentive contracts like injury-prone players, sometimes you have to overpay for what you want.”
How much did Jon Garland get? About 6 mil guaranteed for 1 year. You are paying 15 mil for two years of Marquis.
What about Doug Davis? Livan Hernandez? Jarrod Washburn? All these guys are similar to Marquis in that they are “inning eaters”.
Again, what is your argument? Only 2 relief pitchers pitched at least 50 innings last year. Both of them had sub-4 ERAs. And you’re saying they’re being overworked?
Jason Marquis’ career FIP matches exactly with the Nat’s 2009 team FIP. What does that mean? Well, if Marquis puts up his average FIP numbers then you are paying 15 mil for a guy that put up the same garbage that a bunch of other guys put up in 2009 for cheap.
The Nat’s need a lot more pieces. Spending a big chunk of your resources on one mediocre piece is not wise. Once the team reaches a point where they have a good young core, then you start spending on these supplements.
It all adds up. A mil saved here, a mil saved there can get you a decent reliever. Marquis at a one year 5-6 mil deal wouldn’t have been too bad. But 15 for two years?