The Cubs inquired on Blue Jays reliever Jason Frasor again, writes ESPN's Jerry Crasnick. The latest call from the Cubs comes on the heels of Angel Guzman's season-ending shoulder injury. Crasnick says the Cubs are "urgently seeking relief help."
Frasor, 32, posted a 2.50 ERA, 8.7 K/9, and 2.5 BB/9 in 57.6 innings for the Blue Jays last year. He's earning $2.65MM in his last season before free agency. Frasor profiled as a Type B in the 2008-09 Elias rankings, with 66.322 points (Octavio Dotel was the lowest Type A at 68.007). But keep in mind the Cubs have not shown an inclination to offer arbitration to departing free agents in recent years.
SI's Jon Heyman addressed the Cubs' bullpen situation in today's article, noting that GM Jim Hendry made a play for Chan Ho Park before he signed with the Yankees. Heyman writes that "few teams are foolish enough to trade away proven set-up men at this point," but the Jays cashing in on Frasor now would make sense. The price for Padres closer Heath Bell would be higher, since Bell is under team control for two seasons.
The Cubs are not known to have interest in any free agent relievers, though veterans like Russ Springer, David Weathers, and John Smoltz remain unemployed.
Watch hendry trade starlin Castro for frasor!
Don’t even joke like that
yea, please dont joke
haha
sounds good to me!
the cubs should just sign smoltz and weathers to 1 years deals since they wanted a right handed reliever in the first place, and now that guzman is out they would need another righty, so signing smoltz and weathers to 1 year deals for around 1.5 mil should help their bullen a lot
Smoltz is waiting to sign for a contender, similar to Pedro last season.
Seriously though, I wonder what we’d have to give up to land him.
If the Cubs are getting desperate, I can see this winding up as a trade for SS Hak-Ju Lee. The Jays may have to give up a bit extra, say pay Frasor’s salary, but I’m sure that’s what AA is pushing for.
No, if anyone gets traded it’s Flaherty.
Flaherty or Barney are the closest to the majors except for Castro. Barney could even break camp with the Cubs if Blanco goes on the DL. I don’t think Barney by himself would be enough, but he’s a pretty good little player, sorta like Ryan Theriot with a better glove but a little less bat. The Cubs could add a low cost bullpen arm to offset the loss of Frasor.
I would say at least a top 10 prospect would have to be involved. They are also known to want infield help, so expect them to go after Hak-Ju Lee, Watkins, Flaherty, or LeMahieu plus another prospect.
The Cubs should get this done then. HJ Lee is expendible for them now that Castro looks like he’s the ss of the future.
They aren’t going to trade Lee. They have too much invested in him. If it is a minor league infielder, it’ll probably be Flaherty or Barney. Hendry does dumb things but he doesn’t trade his best prospects. The best prospect I can ever remember him trading is Ricky Nolasco and he wasn’t anywhere near a top 100 prospect at the time. There was also Dontrelle Willis but he didn’t blossom until he joined the Marlins…and even then the Cubs got a #3 starter and a closer. They’re not going to give up Lee for a one-year set up guy.
I think it would make perfect sense for the Cubs to inquire on Frasor and it would also make sense for the Jays to trade him. They have to have righty and lefty in the pen (Downs and Gregg) plus, the Cubs just lost Angel Guzman.
Frasor
Stevens
and Jay Jackson?
Both? No
hak ju lee..maybe cashner if hendry was a little generous.
I feel like it would take a couple of prospects for Frasor, only because Frasor is already a proven Major Leaguer, and any prospect we trade will have a solid chance to just wind up a bust. That’s why you usually trade multiple prospects for a solid Major League player, because it’s a risk for the other team, and you know what you’re getting.
Frasor is also better than ever, high heat, nasty circle-change. he has also pitched in the AL East for years, and successfully at that. As a Jays fan, I would want two B Prospects at least. He will be a Type A FA after destroying NL batting.
Scott boras??? Is that you??????
LOL! That’s quite a sales pitch, isn’t it?
LOL! That’s quite a sales pitch, isn’t it?
I can see it being a young bullpen arm and Darwin Barney. Lee would be a serious overpayment and as I mentioned earlier. Hendry isn’t as generous with prospects as he is with ownership’s money.
I think I’d be fine with them trading Stevens and Jackson, or Hak-ju Lee, for Frasor. It would kind of sting to lose any of those prospects, but getting Frasor would really solidify our bullpen, and you have to give up something to get something. A solid bullpen is underestimated, I feel; nothing’s worse than consistently having the lead late in games, but blowing them somewhat often because your bullpen is inadequate.
Stevens is not a prospect. Lee is a good glove but he’s a shortstop and we have Castro penciled in there long-term (hopefully). Jackson would hurt a bit. I just hope Hendry doesn’t trade a future closer away like Cashner to get Frasor. How about The Shark?
shark’s got a no trade clause. Plus, he’s being paid a lot more than Frasor
He does have that no-trade, I forgot. But he’s not being paid more per year, he’s just locked up longer term. His actual 2010 salary is lower than Frasor.
Would Frasor really net you Hak-Ju Lee? If so, AA must pull the trigger. Jays have Downs and Gregg (gulp!). Frasor will be Type B right? I still don’t think one year of Frasor (+ the pick) is enough for Lee. But it’d be nice!
I’m not familiar with the Cubs’ farm, but what if the Jays added another player to Frasor? I’m thinking the Jays can give Dopirak back to the Cubs since the Jays have a logjam at 1B/DH. Not sure if the Cubs have the same problem though.
The Jays have a ton of pitching that they could add too if they’re targeting a high top 10 Cubs prospect.
“give Dopirak back” ya right. No way in hell.
Perhaps Dopirak is a bit of wishful thinking heh. David Cooper is pretty much expendable, what if he turns in a good 2010 ML season?
They can have Dopirak. I’d much rather have Cooper. Not that I’m dying to get either one.
Dopirak just spent most of his age 27 year in AA. Nobody’s breaking down the door to get him. We’re looking at a guy who, despite his bloated average in a small AAA sample size, will struggle to hit .250 in the bigs. When you add that he’s well below average defensively and clogs the basepaths his value diminishes even further. If the Cubs wanted that type of player they would have just kept Jake Fox. So you need not worry, the Cubs won’t even inquire. That’ll leave it up to the Jays to figure out how they plan to fit Lind, Snyder, Brett Wallace, David Cooper, and Brian Dopirak in the same lineup.
Odds are pretty good for Frasor to bump up to Type A with a half-decent showing this season.
A voice of reason! I don’t think people realize how good Lee is and trading him for a decent reliever coming off a career year for a one-year rental would be an absolute steal for the Jays. If that were the offer, AA would have been all over it by now.
Too bad Hendry couldn’t have pried Mark Lowe away from Seattle in the Bradley trade instrad of Carlos Silva. Problem solved!
Frasor for Hak-Ju Lee sounds like a fair deal.
Thats just silly. When Hak Ju Lee Gets to The Show, people will really be forgetting about the Cajun Connection. Fontenot and Theriot will be a thing of the past. Look for Lee to move over to 2nd base and look for next year, or this year if the Cubs faulter early, to be Ryan Theriot’s last at Wrigley.
Most scouts say Lee is even better defensively at SS than Castro. It may be Castro that has to move eventually to 2b. That would make for pretty nice defense up the middle!
Most scouts say Lee is even better defensively at SS than Castro. It may be Castro that has to move eventually to 2b. That would make for pretty nice defense up the middle!
Thats just silly. When Hak Ju Lee Gets to The Show, people will really be forgetting about the Cajun Connection. Fontenot and Theriot will be a thing of the past. Look for Lee to move over to 2nd base and look for next year, or this year if the Cubs faulter early, to be Ryan Theriot’s last at Wrigley.
I believe there was talk last season between the Cubs and the Padres about Bell. I wonder if the Cubs would still be interested and if so what they would be willing to give up for him?
I don’t see the Padres making Bell available prior to the season. They may move him at the deadline, but not before.
If Mike Adams shows health in camp, they sure might move Bell. Heck, I’d rather have Adams, even with the injury risk.
I was saying they wont trade him before the season starts. It would send the wrong signal to fans. They are going to want to see what they have for a team before making the choice to move Bell/Young/Adrian/Garland/Correia. If the Padres are out of it at the break I would expect them all, but only if they are out of it.
Send Stevens back to the tribe for Wood with Indians paying at least 1/2 of the remaining $10 million or so. Brings back a fan favorite and his option won’t vest since he won’t be closing. Gives added insurance in case Marmol craps out as a closer.
Frasor for Hak-Ju Lee
Josh Vitters, Welington Castillio, and Sean Marshall for Heath Bell and Luke Gregorson
Why would the Padres have any interest in moving Gergerson, considering he is two years away from arb, and 5 from free agency?
I agree. Bell maybe, but Gergerson would be the obvious heir apparent to close in SD…and a cost-controlled one to boot!
The Padres liked Vitters and Marshall last year during the Peavy rumors.
The Cubs are going to have to overpay for any decent reliever Hendry can find.
Bell would be perfect because he can close if Marmol has trouble throwing strikes, which is more than likely.
Again, Bell’s price has gone way up in any deal with the Cubs.
Hendry should have made a deal before word got out that Guzman’s shoulder is blown out. Could the Cubs not have kept that medical report quiet for a few days while Hendry aquired somebody? Apparently not.
I can’t believe Hendry gets so much criticism, yet every “GM” on this thread seems willing to trade Hak Ju Lee for Frasor, who basically profiles as a middle reliever. Lee is actually a better SS than Castro defensively and is the best leadoff prospect in the system. He’s been on a couple of top 100 lists (Jim Callis and Kevin Goldstein). I think Hendry has no intention of trading Lee — and if he did, it may turn out to be the worst deal he ever made.
Profiles as a middle reliever?????????? *cough*homer*cough*
Because he just had his best season at age 32 and relievers are extremely fluky, since their sample sizes are so limited.
middle reliever. has pitched vs. AL East his whole career, with very good results. now has a plus fastball, and a plus-plus change to go with average curve and slider. type B now, should make type A FA. career 0.8 HR/9, 8.2 K/9. 1.28 WHIP. middle reliever my ass.
Very good results? This was his first good season.
A .8 HR/9 and 1.28 WHIP are nothing special, and actually right about what you’ll get from a middle reliever. Stop being a homer. This guy is nothing special, and not worth one of the Cubs top prospects.
I haven’t said that he deserves a top prospect, just that he has been successful in the AL East, and would most likely improve vs. NL batters. he introduced a FOURTH pitch last season, that has proven to be relatively un-hittable. he is a type B, and could be a type A, so I figure two “B” prospects should be good to get it done, unless we send money and more players for one of your SS. trust me, you will like what you get from Frasor.
I’m not sure what you mean by “very good” results. He’s been yanked from the closer job twice in 04 and 07. His numbers were pretty average until his career year last year. He’s a little vulnerable to lefties as well. He’s decent and he’d likely share set-up duties with John Grabow, but he isn’t worth Hak Ju Lee. The Cubs have plenty of depth at SS beyond Castro and Lee. They can make a fair offer without having to dump one of their top prospects.
Downs and Frasor for Vitters +
Downs + Frasor could potentially give a team 4 drafts pick next year, it’s worth noting.
Because draft picks always always a guarantee.
I think the only way the Jays snag a top ten prospect from the Cubs is if it’s a 1 for 1 deal, similar to the Kevin Gregg trade. Granted, they won’t get their top pitching prospect, but trading possibly someone who is also close to the majors ala Chris Carpenter or someone to that mold. Frasor has been in the league for several seasons, but he really put up one spectacular year, being last year. As someone said above, relievers can be very fluky, so you never know what you’re getting. If they will settle for a young arm, that could potentially have high upside, they can get it done. They won’t get Lee because they’re already making plans for when he makes it to the bigs, and it will move Castro to second, which is saying a lot for the prowess that Castro is carrying. But then again, you never know with Hendry, so maybe he deals Lee. You can never be sure. We will see.
I do want to say however, that I would be all about trading for him. He seems like he has great stuff, and pitching in the al beast and moving anywhere else can certainly help your numbers, and his numbers have been generally good. He moves to the nl, and you could see his numbers shoot through the roof. I like the idea of this guy, but 32 years old is scary, especially for a guy coming off his best year in the majors. However, for the right deal, I think Hendry would pull the trigger. What does Downs contract look like also? I hate the idea of Grabow being the only really “reliable” bullpen lefty out there. Downs has seemed to do a pretty nice job in Toronto? Maybe you can expand the deal a bit, maybe throw them a young bullpen arm, which would bode well for the youth movement that Toronto is making. It seems like a deal that would make sense for both teams, except the Blue Jays could get two picks each for the players, but perhaps getting the young guys to the majors faster via trade could be more valuable to AA. You never know. Thoughts?
we don’t need any arms. we need OF and SS prospects. that’s it. we could send you more arms than frasor. downs makes more than frasor ~$4MM in 2010, and is also a FA at end 2010. he is a type A now, frasor is a type B. we have a ton of pother itchers that are available too, i’m sure.
frasor will destroy NL hitting.
Do the Jays want upper level guys who will be able to contribute soon or are they looking to re-stock their farm system with lower-level guys?
we need guys close to MLB ready, preferably AA or first year AAA players. we won’t contend for a couple of years, and have a young crop of players that look to be ready to make an impact by 2011-2013. Snider, Wallace, Drabek, JP Arencibia , Zach Stewart etc.
That narrows downt the list a lot. Most of the Cubs SS prospects are in low A ball or lower. The exceptions are Castro and Darwin Barney. Castro is untouchable so that leaves Barney as the only tradeable minor league guy. He’s the #18 prospect on the Cubs prospect list. He’s got great instincts and is often compared to our own Ryan Theriot with less bat but better defensive skills.
As for outfielders at the upper levels, the Cubs are pretty thin in that area too. There is Tyler Colvin, Sam Fuld, Brad Snyder, and Jim Adducci. Colvin and Snyder have the highest upside of that group. Colvin is the #17 prospect and a former #1 pick…so he’s the one with the best pedigree of a rather thin lot. He’s also put on 25 lbs of muscle this spring and is hitting the ball well early in the spring.
You have to remember this is only one year of Frasor. The Cubs rarely offer arbitration to free agents to be. He had a career last year. I know you attribute some of that to developing an extra pitch, but it may have been a fluke. Players don’t usually improve at age 32. It’s likely he’ll regress somewhat closer to his previous numbers…which were pretty ordinary. It’s reasonable to assume the Jays may ask for a couple of prospects since they’ll lose either type B or Type A compensation, but they won’t be at the level of Hak Ju Lee.
The Blue Jays have an oversupply of of relief pitchers and too many pitchers without options left. Jason Frasor has been the front man in the discusion because he closed last year, saved 11 games part-time last year and had a strikeout per inning. Nobody is talking about Jeremy Accardo who saved 30 games for the Jays in 2007 but for some reason is out of favor with Jays management. He is younger than Frasor, has great stuff and has proven he can close or be a middle reliever. He would give the Cubs another option and some depth in relief. Both have extremely reasonable contracts. Why not add Accardo to the mix in trade discussions to get a deal done.
It’s probably because he’s only appeared in 16 and 26 games in the majors the last two years. Was he hurt, or at AAA? I’m all about getting the best value out of a right relief pitcher. What type of stuff does Accardo have? Are they older guys out of options or young guys who J.P. used unwisely?
Accardo was injured early in 2008, and has been riding the AAA shuttle ever since, to the dismay of jays fans in the know. he is a great reliever, and has been forced to bear with the revolving door of pitchers the Jays have used in relief. we just have too many arms, and not enough spots. successful relievers like accardo and janssen with options left might not make the team, never mind the glut of younger guys that have no hope due to the log jam. we could trade two young, promising SP and 2-3 ML quality relievers and still have solid depth.
Fair enough. Is he being sent down because he has options, or because of performance? With the surplus of pitching, why haven’t they traded most of the shuttled pitchers, for the of and ss help you spoke of earlier? I’m not being a smartass, just wondering. I know that JP wasn’t exactly a great gm, so if that’s the reason, I can relate to you as Hendry is my gm……
Accardo was successful, and was publicly upset with how he was treated (by JP). some think he didn’t get along with Cito…, he posted a ~2.55 ERA with the Jays in 2009.
It’s probably because he’s only appeared in 16 and 26 games in the majors the last two years. Was he hurt, or at AAA? I’m all about getting the best value out of a right relief pitcher. What type of stuff does Accardo have? Are they older guys out of options or young guys who J.P. used unwisely?
The Blue Jays have an oversupply of of relief pitchers and too many pitchers without options left. Jason Frasor has been the front man in the discusion because he closed last year, saved 11 games part-time last year and had a strikeout per inning. Nobody is talking about Jeremy Accardo who saved 30 games for the Jays in 2007 but for some reason is out of favor with Jays management. He is younger than Frasor, has great stuff and has proven he can close or be a middle reliever. He would give the Cubs another option and some depth in relief. Both have extremely reasonable contracts. Why not add Accardo to the mix in trade discussions to get a deal done.
Well, the Cubs don’t have any outstanding outfield prospects, and truthfully, their top two ss prospects are probably off limits in Castro and Lee, unless it was for a front line starter or power corner fielder. I like Frasor and all that he could probably bring, but he probably isn’t going to land you Lee
Anyone who has posted 30 saves, particluarly in the AL East has outstanding stuff. Accardo is only 28 and only has a $900,000 contract. No arm issues but for some reason has just fallen out of favor. Frankly I don’t understand any reluctance to trade a top SS prospect since they have 4 listed in the top 10 prospects by BA. It sounds like there is the making of a deal here but may need expansion beyond just a reliever for a SS. The Jays also have a large group of good young starters who got their feet wet in the majors last year and could help the Cubs this year. Perhaps adding one of them and including Chris Carpenter would do it.
Anyone who has posted 30 saves, particluarly in the AL East has outstanding stuff. Accardo is only 28 and only has a $900,000 contract. No arm issues but for some reason has just fallen out of favor. Frankly I don’t understand any reluctance to trade a top SS prospect since they have 4 listed in the top 10 prospects by BA. It sounds like there is the making of a deal here but may need expansion beyond just a reliever for a SS. The Jays also have a large group of good young starters who got their feet wet in the majors last year and could help the Cubs this year. Perhaps adding one of them and including Chris Carpenter would do it.
Anyone who has posted 30 saves, particluarly in the AL East has outstanding stuff. Accardo is only 28 and only has a $900,000 contract. No arm issues but for some reason has just fallen out of favor. Frankly I don’t understand any reluctance to trade a top SS prospect since they have 4 listed in the top 10 prospects by BA. It sounds like there is the making of a deal here but may need expansion beyond just a reliever for a SS. The Jays also have a large group of good young starters who got their feet wet in the majors last year and could help the Cubs this year. Perhaps adding one of them and including Chris Carpenter would do it.
Anyone who has posted 30 saves, particluarly in the AL East has outstanding stuff. Accardo is only 28 and only has a $900,000 contract. No arm issues but for some reason has just fallen out of favor. Frankly I don’t understand any reluctance to trade a top SS prospect since they have 4 listed in the top 10 prospects by BA. It sounds like there is the making of a deal here but may need expansion beyond just a reliever for a SS. The Jays also have a large group of good young starters who got their feet wet in the majors last year and could help the Cubs this year. Perhaps adding one of them and including Chris Carpenter would do it.
True…apart from Brett Jackson (who, thankfully, can’t be traded), the Cubs don’t have a top outfield prospect but they’ve got some toolsy guys like Kyler Burke, Tyler Colvin and Brad Snyder. Burke may have the highest upside but is at least 3 years away, Colvin is a former #1 pick who’s hitting well this spring and Snyder may be appealing because he has similar tools, is nearly major league ready, and wouldn’t take up a spot on a 40 man roster. You may have to throw in a shortstop prospect not named Castro or Lee to get it done. If the Jays want immediate help and they need OF and SS, then I would think Colvin or Snyder + Darwin Barney could work. If they’re willing to wait about 3 years for more upside they may prefer Burke and Flaherty…two of the Cubs top 11 prospects would be a pretty steep price, in my opinion — but the Cubs are pretty desperate.
The Jays aren’t going to trade a major league ready starter and closer for a couple of the Cubs less prominent prospects. You have to give up some quality to get some in return. Jays already have some good outfield prospects within a couple of years of making the big team. They also have some guys in camp who can play the backup OF role. Having said that, Jays want to continue to build the farm depth so I would think once of Castro or Lee and an A level prospect would net Frasor and a starter.
Who said anything about a starter? All the Cubs want is an average set-up guy for one year with some experience. Frasor fits the bill.
And Castro (or Lee) and an A level prospect is hillarious. It will never happen. I won’t even dignify that with a serious response. Moreover, the Jays OF prospect situation is even thinner than the Cubs’. You don’t have anybody waiting to take over anything at the major league level. What you have is Travis Snider, who probably should be a DH…and that’s really about it.
Crunch, he posted on one of my earlier threads about one of their young starters that they have gotten their feet wet in Toronto, possibly coming the Cubs way along with a reliever, to possibly help steady the rotation. That’s where the starter came up.
I’m with you on the set-up guy. I hope Frasor added this new pitch that everyone has been talking about, because that will obviously make him more valuable. That notion of Castro/Lee and an A level prospect is a little preposterous, as you’ve noted. Yes, they definitely need outfielders. Does Snider play right, because if not, they’ll probably be running Bautista out there, who is a career, .238 hitter. Perhaps they would jump at the opportunity to pick up Snyder or maybe even someone like Adduci, with the flexibility to play all three spots for them. Just thoughts.
Vitters will make a switch to LF. An outfield of Vitters, Jackson, Colvin would just be silly defense. That might be the best defensive OF the Cubs have ever had.
Jackson and Colvin should be good defensive outfielders. I’m not so sure about Vitters. He’s already got below average speed and he’s still filling out. He’ll be in the lineup for his bat.
Vitters will make a switch to LF. An outfield of Vitters, Jackson, Colvin would just be silly defense. That might be the best defensive OF the Cubs have ever had.
Absolutely agree. With two guys like Burke and Flaherty, they are extremely talented, but they really are playing in leagues where, for their age, they should be dominating. Burke finally put it together, but on his third go round. I’d be okay with it, and the Cubs expected far more from Flaherty to get the numbers he put up. Granted, he is a very good hitter, maybe just a down year? Regardless, I’d be okay with the Snyder+Barney deal. I’d hate if we traded Colvin. There are many places that are projecting (I can’t remember off the top of my head who wrote it) that with his power, and the 25 added pounds of muscle he’s added, he could be a legit threat to play cf and hit 30 hrs. If this becomes the case, it would be much easier to trade one of our everyday outfielders not named Soriano and let Colvin play. He still has a lot of upside and I wouldn’t want to see him dealt. He is finally starting to turn back into the player we drafted, instead of the 08 version. If they Jays grabbed him, it would be a steal. Not to say he’s Jason Heyward, but if he can play solid defense, hit for some power, and continue to play center field, that could be a huge asset. Do you like Colvin as a player? I think his skill set is pretty solid
No doubt Burke and Flaherty were a bit older than the competition. Burke had a crazy spike in his walk rate and power…I’m anxious to see him build on that, hopefully it wasn’t a fluke.
I am also getting cautiously optimistic about Colvin. I haven’t been able to follow the games this spring. I’d be interested to know if he’s been any more selective at the plate. I don’t think he’ll ever walk much, but working the count and waiting for pitches to drive could add to his power along with that added muscle. He’s a toolsy guy and sometimes they take a bit longer to develop (like Burke) so I’ve got hopes that things have finally clicked for him. I like Colvin’s tools. I like him much better as a corner outfielder, where he’s going to need that extra power. If he has become more selective at the plate, I really like his chances, but that’s a big if. If he’s still hacking away then I think he’s going to be a streaky type player at best.
True…apart from Brett Jackson (who, thankfully, can’t be traded), the Cubs don’t have a top outfield prospect but they’ve got some toolsy guys like Kyler Burke, Tyler Colvin and Brad Snyder. Burke may have the highest upside but is at least 3 years away, Colvin is a former #1 pick who’s hitting well this spring and Snyder may be appealing because he has similar tools, is nearly major league ready, and wouldn’t take up a spot on a 40 man roster. You may have to throw in a shortstop prospect not named Castro or Lee to get it done. If the Jays want immediate help and they need OF and SS, then I would think Colvin or Snyder + Darwin Barney could work. If they’re willing to wait about 3 years for more upside they may prefer Burke and Flaherty…two of the Cubs top 11 prospects would be a pretty steep price, in my opinion — but the Cubs are pretty desperate.
Well, the Cubs don’t have any outstanding outfield prospects, and truthfully, their top two ss prospects are probably off limits in Castro and Lee, unless it was for a front line starter or power corner fielder. I like Frasor and all that he could probably bring, but he probably isn’t going to land you Lee
The Blue Jays have an oversupply of of relief pitchers and too many pitchers without options left. Jason Frasor has been the front man in the discusion because he closed last year, saved 11 games part-time last year and had a strikeout per inning. Nobody is talking about Jeremy Accardo who saved 30 games for the Jays in 2007 but for some reason is out of favor with Jays management. He is younger than Frasor, has great stuff and has proven he can close or be a middle reliever. He would give the Cubs another option and some depth in relief. Both have extremely reasonable contracts. Why not add Accardo to the mix in trade discussions to get a deal done.
The Blue Jays have an oversupply of of relief pitchers and too many pitchers without options left. Jason Frasor has been the front man in the discusion because he closed last year, saved 11 games part-time last year and had a strikeout per inning. Nobody is talking about Jeremy Accardo who saved 30 games for the Jays in 2007 but for some reason is out of favor with Jays management. He is younger than Frasor, has great stuff and has proven he can close or be a middle reliever. He would give the Cubs another option and some depth in relief. Both have extremely reasonable contracts. Why not add Accardo to the mix in trade discussions to get a deal done.
The Blue Jays have an oversupply of of relief pitchers and too many pitchers without options left. Jason Frasor has been the front man in the discusion because he closed last year, saved 11 games part-time last year and had a strikeout per inning. Nobody is talking about Jeremy Accardo who saved 30 games for the Jays in 2007 but for some reason is out of favor with Jays management. He is younger than Frasor, has great stuff and has proven he can close or be a middle reliever. He would give the Cubs another option and some depth in relief. Both have extremely reasonable contracts. Why not add Accardo to the mix in trade discussions to get a deal done.
The Blue Jays have an oversupply of of relief pitchers and too many pitchers without options left. Jason Frasor has been the front man in the discusion because he closed last year, saved 11 games part-time last year and had a strikeout per inning. Nobody is talking about Jeremy Accardo who saved 30 games for the Jays in 2007 but for some reason is out of favor with Jays management. He is younger than Frasor, has great stuff and has proven he can close or be a middle reliever. He would give the Cubs another option and some depth in relief. Both have extremely reasonable contracts. Why not add Accardo to the mix in trade discussions to get a deal done.
Fraser and accardo for Lee?
That would probably be a pretty steep price for the Jays to have to pay. Those are two of the pieces they will rely upon heavily at the big league level, traded for an A level shortstop, who is at least two years away, would be a steeeeeeeeeep price to pay. As a Cubs fan, I’d be a little reluctant to deal Lee, but it would also be for two very solid relievers who could really solidify the bullpen.
add the OF prospect 9the one who plays all 3 spots) and that would work…
Unless the Jays are looking to shed payroll, in which that would make sense, but they would probably ask for a little more from the Cubs, maybe a lower level pitcher with high upside, or something along those lines
Lee isn’t going anywhere. Piling up average relievers isn’t going to change things. Why would the Cubs trade their best leadoff prospect and best defensive SS for two relievers? That’s just fans of opposing teams checking out a prospect list and picking out favorites (specifically, the top prospect they believe to be available at the position of their greatest need)…but it’s not reality. The Cubs just want one stopgap reliever for this year. You don’t give up top prospects for that. Think about the Grabow trade last year. Not only did the Cubs get a solid, veteran lefty reliever, but they also got a 5th starter in Gorzelanny. And what did the Cubs give up? Kevin Hart and a C prospect in Josh Harrison. If people think the Jays are going to get a top 100 prospect for Frasor, they’re dreaming.
There are certain factors to consider. A lot of these Jays fans seem to think Frasor’s permanent, overall value is equal to his 2009 season. That’s not how it works.
1) You have to consider his career value, not one season
2) It’s a one year rental…that alone reduces compensation
3) A 2.5M exchange in payroll — a plus for the Jays and a minus for the Cubs.
4) The Jays may argue that they could conceivably get 2 low first round draft picks for Frasor. That’s highly suspect because Frasor has yet to hold a closer job for a whole season and they didn’t pay Kevin Gregg all that money to set up games. But even if we give them the benefit of the doubt, we’re talking about 2 B level prospects since low first round picks are a crapshoot and much more risky than prospects who have had minor league success at higher levels. Realistically, it’s one B prospect and either a player off the roster or a C level prospect — though the Cubs desperation could make it 2 B prospects.
My guess is that the Cubs would offer a C prospect and a player off their roster (like the Grabow/Gorzelanny deal); that way they can reduce the net amount of salary they are taking on. The Jays would probably insist on 2 B prospects instead. AA is smart enough to know that the Cubs won’t part with Castro or Lee. So he’ll try to get two good prospects, but if it’s going to be two prospects, the Cubs have to take on additional salary, so a reasonable compromise would be a B level prospect and a C level prospect…or from the Cubs side a player off the roster and a B level prospect.
So if the Jays want to make this deal, they’re going to wait a while. They’re probably going to look at the Cubs who are in the major league camp; guys like Colvin, Snyder, Barney — they may even take a look at how Fontenot plays SS just to cover all possibilities. The Cubs, interestingly enough are “pleased” with his play there and plan to play him often this spring. I’d be interested to know who the Cubs put on the field (and where) on the day that the Jays come to scout the Cubs. The Cubs would love to throw in Fontenot because it will save them a prospect but, more importantly, he makes $1M. Frasor makes $2.5M so that would put the Cubs net salary paid out at 1.5M, which is important considering they are already at their budget limit- and new ownership has been holding very firm on that budget so that may be the only way the Cubs will be able to deal. The good news for the Jays in that scenario is that it puts them in position to ask for a better prospect than they would if the Cubs were taking on the entire salary.
I’d also like to add to my obnoxiously long post and point out that Toronto has a lot of relievers with no options left. This lowers their leverage a bit and likely an additional reason why the Cubs have zeroed in on the the Jays as a trade partner.
Remember when that Blue Jays fan was so gung ho about Jason Frasor learning that 4th pitch and how he finally turned the corner? His 9 ERA indicates otherwise I’d assume
Yeah, no kidding! This is the third time in his career that Frasor has had the closer job and lost it. Hmmm, you know, now that I think about it… Frasor’s a local guy, hard thrower, can set-up but stinks as a closer…this guy sounds a little too much like LaTroy Hawkins to me.
I know it’s early and he could turn things around, but I don’t know why you’d ever trade a good prospect for a reliever, much less a set-up guy. I know it’s still early but in Frasor’s case, he’ll probably wind up with a year like he usually does, ERA in the 4s, a good K rate but an average walk rate…that’s who he is. The Jays were trying to sell high based on his one good year. Thank god, Hendry didn’t buy it this time.
Remember when that Blue Jays fan was so gung ho about Jason Frasor learning that 4th pitch and how he finally turned the corner? His 9 ERA indicates otherwise I’d assume
I’d also like to add to my obnoxiously long post and point out that Toronto has a lot of relievers with no options left. This lowers their leverage a bit and likely an additional reason why the Cubs have zeroed in on the the Jays as a trade partner.
Lee isn’t going anywhere. Piling up average relievers isn’t going to change things. Why would the Cubs trade their best leadoff prospect and best defensive SS for two relievers? That’s just fans of opposing teams checking out a prospect list and picking out favorites (specifically, the top prospect they believe to be available at the position of their greatest need)…but it’s not reality. The Cubs just want one stopgap reliever for this year. You don’t give up top prospects for that. Think about the Grabow trade last year. Not only did the Cubs get a solid, veteran lefty reliever, but they also got a 5th starter in Gorzelanny. And what did the Cubs give up? Kevin Hart and a C prospect in Josh Harrison. If people think the Jays are going to get a top 100 prospect for Frasor, they’re dreaming.
There are certain factors to consider. A lot of these Jays fans seem to think Frasor’s permanent, overall value is equal to his 2009 season. That’s not how it works.
1) You have to consider his career value, not one season
2) It’s a one year rental…that alone reduces compensation
3) A 2.5M exchange in payroll — a plus for the Jays and a minus for the Cubs.
4) The Jays may argue that they could conceivably get 2 low first round draft picks for Frasor. That’s highly suspect because Frasor has yet to hold a closer job for a whole season and they didn’t pay Kevin Gregg all that money to set up games. But even if we give them the benefit of the doubt, we’re talking about 2 B level prospects since low first round picks are a crapshoot and much more risky than prospects who have had minor league success at higher levels. Realistically, it’s one B prospect and either a player off the roster or a C level prospect — though the Cubs desperation could make it 2 B prospects.
My guess is that the Cubs would offer a C prospect and a player off their roster (like the Grabow/Gorzelanny deal); that way they can reduce the net amount of salary they are taking on. The Jays would probably insist on 2 B prospects instead. AA is smart enough to know that the Cubs won’t part with Castro or Lee. So he’ll try to get two good prospects, but if it’s going to be two prospects, the Cubs have to take on additional salary, so a reasonable compromise would be a B level prospect and a C level prospect…or from the Cubs side a player off the roster and a B level prospect.
So if the Jays want to make this deal, they’re going to wait a while. They’re probably going to look at the Cubs who are in the major league camp; guys like Colvin, Snyder, Barney — they may even take a look at how Fontenot plays SS just to cover all possibilities. The Cubs, interestingly enough are “pleased” with his play there and plan to play him often this spring. I’d be interested to know who the Cubs put on the field (and where) on the day that the Jays come to scout the Cubs. The Cubs would love to throw in Fontenot because it will save them a prospect but, more importantly, he makes $1M. Frasor makes $2.5M so that would put the Cubs net salary paid out at 1.5M, which is important considering they are already at their budget limit- and new ownership has been holding very firm on that budget so that may be the only way the Cubs will be able to deal. The good news for the Jays in that scenario is that it puts them in position to ask for a better prospect than they would if the Cubs were taking on the entire salary.
Bell for Castro and Vitters
STOP!!!!!
STOP!!!!!
Castro AND Vitters?!?!? For a middle reliever that we’re only going to use for one year?!?!? Of all the ridiculous proposals I’ve heard this is the worst. There’s no way the Cubs will trade ONE of their top prospects for a 1-year reliever, let alone two top prospects.
Bell for Castro and Vitters