The latest from Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports…
- Rosenthal wonders if Zack Greinke will change his opinion of the Royals in Spring Training when he sees how close many of their prospects are. Rosenthal says the Royals have no urgency to deal Greinke, though ESPN's Buster Olney writes that "some rival general managers are convinced the Royals are intent on moving Greinke this winter."
- Mark Reynolds is a "trade possibility under discussion" for the Orioles, depending on how their offseason unfolds. We heard from Yahoo's Tim Brown on November 10th that the Diamondbacks are shopping Reynolds and "looking for contact hitters and bullpen help." You'd have to think the D'Backs would want David Hernandez from the Orioles.
- Rosenthal feels that a Heath Bell trade would not happen until after free agents like Rafael Soriano and J.J. Putz sign, if at all.
- The Reds do not want to offer arbitration to Type A free agent Arthur Rhodes, but they could re-sign him this week. Check out Rhodes' free agent stock watch piece here.
- One GM Rosenthal spoke to thought Joaquin Benoit's lucrative contract could discourage teams from offering arbitration to relievers such as Jason Frasor and Grant Balfour, because if they accept they could use Benoit as a comparable for their 2011 salaries. On the other hand, I think teams could be more inclined to offer arbitration knowing relievers might turn it down in hopes of finding a multiyear deal on the open market.
- The Rays' payroll is very limited, so they won't be spending much on a free agent closer type.
- Rosenthal writes, "Suggestions that the Pirates are pursuing major free agents such as outfielder Jayson Werth appear greatly off-base." I've yet to see any writer make a Pirates-Werth connection, but SI's Jon Heyman has said they've been aggressive in making free agent calls so far.
All I can say is Jayson Werth is > Garrett Jones+Lastings Milledge+John Bowker+ Delwyn Young+Brandon “I’m a AAAA AllStar” Moss.
it would be nice, but i’ll put the odds at 2.2%.
Young and Moss are gone. 🙁
Moss is dogshit. terrible with boston, terrible with pirates. He is the minors superstar
That will be the second Pirate referred to with a canine nickname; the first being Bill “Mad Dog” Madlock.
I would agree with you, but who wants to get sued by some perfectly good dogshit because it’s been compared to Moss?
“The Rays’ payroll is very limeted”, clearly. If people showed up to their games when they’re winning 90+ games they wouldn’t have his problem! Say bye to Pena, Soriano and Crawford.
Part of the problem is that NYY have had Spring Training in Tampa for years and many people there are Yankee fans. The only way to get fans in A ballpark for the Rays is to move. How does Oklahoma City Rays sound?
Would the Padres feel comfortable trading Bell even after dealing Mujica and Webb?
For the right piece.
“One GM Rosenthal spoke to thought Joaquin Benoit’s lucrative contract could discourage teams from offering arbitration to relievers such as Jason Frasor and Grant Balfour”
I sincerely doubt Frasor can leverage that deal in to a 3 Million dollar raise.
Having Greinke stick around once he sees the direction our ballclub is heading would be awesome.
Having Greinke stick around once he sees the direction our ballclub is heading would be awesome.
Keep your eye on David Hernandez. His final numbers are suppressed because 2010 was a season where he transitioned away from SP into RP, where he was dominant. So he might be a well-kept secret.
In the bullpen, he was 7-3 with a 3.16 ERA in 33 relief appearances. He struck out 45 batters and walked just 14 in 37 innings. He gained more late break on the slider and added velocity to the sinking fastball hitting 97-98 mph. He has closer stuff out of the bullpen. The Rays asked about him and the Orioles are willing to trade him for the right player.
I’d be willing to trade Hernandez based on who we get coming back. Bartlett? No. I think Hernandez has too much potential as a late inning reliever to pick up an average shortstop. Reynolds? Probably not. I just can’t see Reynolds doing well hitting in the AL East. He might hit some bombs, but he’s bound to disappoint. I’d be happy to sit pat and mix and match at 3b until Bell is ready or a better free agent/trade prospect comes around.
Or sign Beltre. Haha.
Well, Hernandez is not there yet, if ever. So if there’s a time to trade him, it’s now. You evaluate him and go with that. That’s what I say. I think he could be a pretty useful quality bullpen 6th to 7th inning arm at minimum. The closer role is always a little bit of a wild card though. It’s more than just stuff and velocity.
That said, statistically he doesn’t look as good on paper right now as he was out of the pen, unless you scrutinize it closer. A saavy baseball guy would identify him as maybe someone who they could get for relatively cheap, but might turn into more later.
Well, Hernandez is not there yet, if ever. So if there’s a time to trade him, it’s now. You evaluate him and go with that. That’s what I say. I think he could be a pretty useful quality bullpen 6th to 7th inning arm at minimum. The closer role is always a little bit of a wild card though. It’s more than just stuff and velocity.
That said, statistically he doesn’t look as good on paper right now as he was out of the pen, unless you scrutinize it closer. A saavy baseball guy would identify him as maybe someone who they could get for relatively cheap, but might turn into more later.
Hey Tampa Bay, offer KC Hellickson for Soria.
As a fellow Royals fan, I’d be very interested in a deal like this. Soria is such a stud, but does us little good right now. With Tim Collins coming to the bigs I’d be willing to trade him if we could get an arm like Hellickson back.
Hellickson is worth way more than that. Just saying.
You mean an unproven rookie pitcher is worth way more than a proven Cy Young award winner? You can only base Hellickson’s value on potential at this point. So he carved up minor league hitters, so did Greinke. So did Brien Taylor. You get my point?
the deal was for Soria, not Greinke.
Yeah, it was supposed to say Cy Young award “nominee” and in the heat of trying to make my point I typed “winner”. Soria did receive some Cy Young votes and is an All-Star closer, which is the point I was trying to make. I failed.
My point is, you don’t know if Hellickson will end up like Greinke, Brien Taylor or somewhere in-between. Soria on the other hand is a proven stud closer which would definitely be worth a 1-for-1 swap of an unproven rookie, albeit a guy with tons of potential. Sorry for my typo, but as you can see in my previous post on this subject I clearly knew the conversation was about Soria.
I would rather have a young starter with Hellickson’s potential than an established veteran with Soria’s pedigree.
Starters > Relievers. Always.
I like how you make it sound like Soria is just some ordinary run-of-the-mill reliever…haha…nice.
Wonder if the Rays remember Wade Townsend at all?
That’s hardly the case, and not my intention. Soria is a superbly talented player. However, I would still love to have Hellickson. He’s proved (in my eyes at least, not to mention many talent evaluators) that he is not going to be a failed prospect like Townsend.I understand you are impartial toward Soria, but Hellickson is a phenomenal talent. Relievers come and go, and saves can be picked up much easier than Greinke-esque starts. And that’s the kind of ceiling Hellickson has.
Yeah, it was supposed to say Cy Young award “nominee” and in the heat of trying to make my point I typed “winner”. Soria did receive some Cy Young votes and is an All-Star closer, which is the point I was trying to make. I failed.
My point is, you don’t know if Hellickson will end up like Greinke, Brien Taylor or somewhere in-between. Soria on the other hand is a proven stud closer which would definitely be worth a 1-for-1 swap of an unproven rookie, albeit a guy with tons of potential. Sorry for my typo, but as you can see in my previous post on this subject I clearly knew the conversation was about Soria.
How about instead of Soria…Lets try to move Butler and a prospect for Garza or Shields…
Soria + B prospect for Hellickson would make sense for both clubs.
Tampa’s rotation is pretty solid and Soria gives them a top closer under contract cheaply for many years. The Royals get another SP for their future. Collins should be ready to close by the time KC is ready to compete.
No way I deal Soria… he is looked up until 2014 and can help the young SP as they come up…
I don’t mean to make it sound like I want to deal Soria. I’d rather not, about the only deal I’d want for Soria is if we got an arm like Hellickson. Like I said, Soria’s contract is team friendly so that makes him even more valuable.
But, how valuable is a closer on a team that might win 70 games? Not nearly as valuable as an arm like Hellickson to add to Greinke, Hochevar, Monty, Lamb, and Duffy.
Tim Collins has a legit shot to be a stud closer. He is still really young but if we dealt Soria for the right price then Collins should fill the role by 2012-2013.
Dont like it… we have a ton of young pitching coming…what we need on this team is some guys been around a few years to show them the ropes… at this point I would rather give up our DH in Butler to get a number 2 SP that has a few years under their belt like Greinke…let Collins be the set up man for Soria…
Hellboy might be a stud but I take my chances with Greinke, Soria and maybe a guy like Garza or Shields if I can get them…
Fair enough statement. One thing we can agree on is that we don’t particularly want Soria to be traded.
I don’t really want Butler to be traded either since he is the only guy we have that hits for average from the right side of the plate. Hopefully his power will continue to develop and some of those 2Bs will turn into HRs.
I don’t want Soria traded either, but I think you guys are either way under the value on Soria or way over the value on Hellickson. I understand how filthy Hellickson has been in the minors and in very limited big league innings, but Soria is one of the best closers in the game!
Just because ESPN doesn’t rave about him shouldn’t diminish his value. Stud closers have a lot of value and are hard to find. I know No. 1 starters are too, but in the here and now no one is certain Hellickson is a No. 1 starter because he hasn’t proven his mettle yet. Does he have the potential? CERTAINLY. But Alex Gordon had potential for the Hall of Fame when he came up a few years ago as well.
I think it would take Hellickson + B prospect for Soria, and not the other way around guys.
I completely disagree, although if the Rays offered Hellickson + a B level prospect for Soria the Royals should jump all over it. And that’s coming from a huge Soria/Royals fan.
I think the only reason that the trade is even is because of Soria’s friendly contract. Yes, he is a stud, top 5 or top 3 closer in the game. But closers just aren’t as important as starters. That’s pretty much a fact and i think the Cy Young voting backs that. I would hate it if the Royals decide to trade Soria for anything less than a legit top of the rotation #1 pitching prospect.
In other words: If KC ships Soria off to NYY for Montero then I’ll be livid.
My point is that many talent evaluators have bickered back and forth about whether the Royals should move Soria to the rotation. Most of them believe that he would be a middle-to-top of the rotation kind of guy, but the Royals value him more as the lights-out closer that he is.
So what I’m saying is that the Royals value the Mexicutioner HIGHLY as a closer and, especially with his current contract, they would demand a HUGE return if they traded him. I would bet everything I own that they would not deal him PLUS a prospect for Hellickson. Could you imagine the PR hit they’d take? Even though Hellickson is as filthy as he is. I guarantee Dayton Moore would demand Hellickson PLUS a prospect for Soria. That’s just the stance they’ve taken on him based on their own evaluations.
I’ve seen many more top-flight starters bounce around (Sabathia/Lee/Halladay/Haren/etc) lately. Relievers are a dime-a-dozen, yes, but teams generally hold onto the top closers until they flame out.
A rumor that the Pirates are going to spend money to improve their team is always 100% false.
Greinke changing his opinion in Spring Training? Is that a joke? What Greinke said is right about players especially HS players taking at least 3 years before they make elite impacts if at all. If a guy hits .400 in ST it still is no indicator what a guy is going to do over a course of a full big league season. It’s too bad geeks like Rosenthal have the ability to form opinions for the public.
Say our prospects all have decent Springs and maybe Mous makes the bigs. Numbers don’t really matter. What does matter is their potential. Maybe Zack sees how loaded we are and thinks: “Gee, the Royals gave me plenty of time. I like what we have in our system. I’m open to talking about an extension later on if this keeps up.”
To me, that’s logical. But, it’s also logical that we ship him out to the highest bidder as well.
I say trade Greinke now before we have another David DeJesus situation on our hands next year and take the haul of prospects. With what we already have coming through the system another 3-4 top prospects on the cusp of the big leagues could put us over the top sooner than expected.
I say locking up Greinke past 2012 and moving Butler for Garza or Shields would get us there faster…
Hopefully, as a Royals fan, Greinke likes what he sees and decides to consider a long term extension. He owes it to the organization.We still have trading pieces (although I would not like to trade Soria unless the deal was right, aka: for a SP like Hellickson) like Billy Butler that could net valuable prospects in return to add to our loaded farm.
“I’ve yet to see any writer make a Pirates-Werth connection”
That’s because Rosenthal’s a lying liar who lies.
If the Pirates we’re to pick up Werth, I would not be happy. This would be Jason Bay trade in reverse. Meaning, we will be the Mets, getting the crappy version after a successful couple of years. Werth = bad idea for the Buccos.