Tom Gorzelanny is heading to Washington for three prospects, the Cubs and Nationals announced today. Lefty Graham Hicks, right-hander A.J. Morris and outfielder Michael Burgess are going to Chicago in the trade.
The Nationals have been looking to bolster their rotation all offseason long. Cliff Lee and Zack Greinke spurned the Nationals, but GM Mike Rizzo continued his pursuit of arms. Once the Cubs acquired Matt Garza from the Rays, Chicago had a starter to spare and the team seriously considered moving Gorzelanny.
Gorzelanny posted a 4.09 ERA with 7.9 K/9 and 4.5 BB/9 in 126 1/3 innings for the Cubs last year. The left-hander started 23 games, after spending most of the 2009 season as a reliever. Though Gorzelanny faded as the 2010 season progressed, he has logged over 200 innings before. The 28-year-old's best season may have come in 2007, when he posted a 3.88 ERA in 201 2/3 innings for the Pirates.
Morris, 24, posted a 3.77 ERA with 7.4 K/9 and 2.9 BB/9 in 86 innings as a swingman at Rookie ball and Class A last year. The 2009 fourth rounder has yet to pitch in the upper minors. Neither Morris nor Burgess appeared on Baseball America's list of top ten Nationals prospects.
Burgess, 22, posted a .265/.357/.465 line in 529 plate appearances at Class A and Double-A last year. The 2007 supplementary first rounder has hit at least 18 homers in eacch of the past three seasons.
A super two player, Gorzelanny is on track to hit free agency after the 2013 season. He agreed to terms on a $2.1MM deal for 2011 yesterday.
Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com first reported the trade and MLB.com's Bill Ladson and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports reported on the deal as the story broke.
Not even knowing the minor leaguers involved, I like this move from the Nationals standpoint. He’s exactly the kind of low cost pitching option they should take chances on, plus if he does well, they can keep him for a few years.
As a Braves fan, for the first time since they have been the Nationals…I really like the direction that they are going…they continue to make moves in the positive direction, I worry that in the next couple years they will be a very good team.
Because of this move It makes it official: the nats are better than the mets.
I wouldn’t expect any pitching duels when the teams meet.
“Prospects.”
I doubt the Nats gave up anything more than a B prospect and filler.
My thoughts exactly.
Burgess isn’t really that good. He’s a C+ prospect and has had contact issues all through the minors. With Harper and Werth locked up into the corner outfield slots, he was blocked and hasn’t shown but so much anyway. We’ll see what the pitchers are but the Nats don’t have any real starting pitching prospects of that much substance. They’ve got some low ceiling arms that I like for their ability to defy expectations moving up the ranks but they don’t have anybody in their system who is eligible to be traded and grades higher than Gorzellany. The other half of this move that will be interesting will be who this bumps out of their rotation.
I made my post before any of the players being sent to the Cubs were announced, so I’d say it was a pretty good guess.
Give that man a Milk-Bone.
Gorzelanny pitched decently last season…was hoping they’d be able to move him for major league pieces. Guess they have to re-stock the system a little after the Garza deal.
The guys they dealt for Garza were from positions of surplus.
You can never have enough quality pitching prospects. It wasn’t like Archer was blocked like Lee and Guyer
I am aware, but it’s not like Archer was the only good pitching prospect they had. His number one prospect status made it look like he was way more important to the farm system than he really was.
You can never have enough quality pitching prospects. It wasn’t like Archer was blocked like Lee and Guyer
Seems like an overpay for a back end SP at best.
We don’t know who the Nats gave up? How in the world can you already say it’s an overpay?
No kidding… could just be three warm bodies. Odds are the Nationals gave up at least something of some value, since Gorz is cheap and coming off a good season, but I doubt we’re talking any legitimate big name prospects here.
I would say one of the pitchers probably has a high upside, but still very far away from the majors. Then a couple fillers. Just a guess though
The Nats don’t have anybody like that, really. The upside guys they have are their recent draftees, Solis, Ray, and Cole, who aren’t eligible to be traded.
Great move, I really like this guy. Who did we give up? We are really starting to look good.
I wouldn’t got that far, but this is a legit move for a team that actually wants to try to improve themselves for next year. Maybe we gave up Detwiler or somebody like that.
Gorzellany is a good pitcher. Not great, but very solid and great to fill innings for the Nats, and then be a solid pitcher at the back end if they are ready to contend in 2012
Why does everyone say the nats are going to contend in 2012? They r still a ways a way.
Maybe, maybe not. The reason people are saying this is because the Nats have a lot of pieces that, while not put together yet, can make a very good team. They would have veteran studs in Zimmerman and Werth, great young pitching that, once developed, will be awesome (Strasburg, Zimm), Storen could easily move into the 9th inning role, he has the stuff, and let’s not forget about the potential Harper has to have an impact on that lineup.
They have plenty of pieces, it just needs to be put together. And it isn’t a stretch to say this could be put together within a year.
I’m very pissed that the Cubs dealt him. He’s cheap, effective and undervalued. I would have rather eaten Silva’a salary and moved him.
Don’t think many want Silva but Gorz is one of the last starters I’d have moved.
I agree. Gorzy is a relatively young, cheap, solid, back of the rotation guy who can chew up innings, and he’s a lefty.
Too bad Silva can’t eat his own salary, as he already eats everything else.
Good move for both parts. This lightens the log jam that the Cubs have in the rotation. Looks like Cashner has himself the #5 spot unless he blows it.
It’ll be Garza-Dempster-Z-Wells-Silva, but I’d rather see Cashner get a shot above Wells at this point.
After just meeting Grozelanny this weekend I hope him the best..My guess is that we get atleast a B prospect back..Hendry and his scouting staff tend to do well on these trades, remember everyone screamed about the DeRosa deal and it turned out to net Archer…
And DeRosa netted Perez for Cleveland and a pocket full of dust for St. Louis. The Cubs fans ought to love how that deal ended turning out!
But it was a move made in order to sign Milton Bradley, who now gives us Carlos Silva.
and Matt Garza….
Now, yes. Didn’t do much good in 2009 or 2010 though. Just saying. And Garza is really just a replacement for Ted Lilly, if you’re comparing the 2010/2011 opening day rosters. A younger, more cost-effective one, yes, but not necessarily a better pitcher.
Okay, now I’m going to wait for the Kevin Bacon reference.
Ted Lilly was in the “We Believe” documentary with Bonnie Hunt who was in “Jerry Maguire” with Tom Cruise who was in “A Few Good Men” with Kevin Bacon. And I’m more than a little sad I could do that…
Wow…
Wow! Impressive…I didn’t think there would be a Kevin Bacon connection. On the other hand, there always is, isn’t there?
are you beginning to look like Kevin Bacon?
Nats fans should really give Mike Rizzo credit, he built the farm system, and his first year as GM look how active he has been. Great job Rizzo!!!!
Want to know who the prospects were. But now there is less competition for Cashner to make the rotation, so I like it either way.
The nats sure love old bucos nyjer morgen, sean burnett, adam laroche, tom gorzelanny, and matt capps formally.
hahaahah i know. i was actually just thinking that [esp cuz my brother is a big bucs fan].
“The nats sure love old bucos nyjer morgen, sean burnett, adam laroche, tom gorzelanny, and matt capps formally.”
Sounds good. Now if they would only take John Grabow, too.
Ha! The Nats love only goes so far….
The Cubs get to keep Grabow, and who knows, maybe he has a bounce back season.
The deal is probably Harper, Strasburg and a low level pitching prospect.
Harper is a little cocky SOB I don’t want him.. the Cubs drafted his older brother.. i doubt he’s as good but Bryce Harper is gonna end up being a bust. His brother Bryan i think it is will be a star..
Thanks for the insight.
You don’t make any sense.
LOL.
Is this an attempt at humor?
step away from the keyboard…..
FOUR LOKO:
GOVERNMENT WARNING: (1) According to the Surgeon general, women should not drink alcoholic beverages during pregnancy because of the risk of birth defects. (2) Consumption of alcoholic beverages impairs your ability to drive a car or operate machinery, and may cause health problems. (3) Consumption of alcoholic beverages impairs your ability to make rational and well thought out trade proposals. It’s suggested that you refrain from making silly trade posts while under the influence of any alcoholic beverage with an alcohol content greater than 5% by volume.
Nice!
I dont think the Cubs have a lefty left in the rotation.
The Cubs are stretching out lefty James Russell in spring training. His chances are slim and will likely start the year at AAA.
If they are concerned about that, they should take another look at Sean Marshall for the rotation. At worst he would be a stopgap; at best, maybe he’s ready to be a back end starter now.
No. He’s a 4 starter at best. Why would you want to turn him from one of the games top lefty set up guys to a back end starter? His value goes way down….
“If they are concerned about that, they should take another look at Sean Marshall for the rotation. At worst he would be a stopgap; at best, maybe he’s ready to be a back end starter now.”
Marshall has done much better as a set up guy than as a starter. He feels comfortable in the pen as well. In the past, the Cubs would tinker too much with players. They are getting better in that area and I like what they did with Marshall. They saw he would be a so-so starter and excell as a set-up man. The Cubs made the right choice in their evaluation of Marshall. More money for him in a few days, too.
he is a great 2 pitch pitcher in the setup role, like Lee Smith early on those 2 pitches let him pitch 5 innings then everyone shelled him. Sean will be a closer one day like in 84 when we had Hernandez/smith in the setup/closer role and Hernandez went to Detroit and was one of the games best lefty closers of course he had that wicked screwball!
don’t forget Grabow could get a chance to move to the rotation, I still think Z or Dempster will be with the Yankees soon.
“Outfielder Michael Burgess is one of the prospects heading from the Nationals to the Cubs, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (on Twitter).”
Pretty nice for the cubs – BP has Burgess as the nationals 7th best prospect. He becomes their best minor league prospect after Jackson
*best minor league outfield prospect
This helps offset the loss of Guyer. Sickels likes Burgess slightly less, but it’s close.
I wonder who the pitchers are.
I think both are 4th outfielder types with Guyer having the better shot of sticking in the majors (largely because of his defense and that he does a little bit of everything) and Burgess as the guy with higher upside. You could say something similar about the Cubs “trade” of Robinson Chirinos for Max Ramirez — at least when it comes to hitting potential. Both are ideally backup types with Chirinos being the better defender and has the better all around skills — and thus is more likely to find a niche in the bigs, while Ramirez bat has bigger potential.
It’s not a terrible trade off because the Cubs can afford to wait at those positions and gamble on upside- as they have young, talented players in Jackson and Soto entrenched at those spots for the foreseeable future. The Cubs have done a decent job of replenishing some of the minor league depth they gave up in the Garza trade so far.
the problem is jackson and burgess are blocked for the next 5 yrs with Soriano in Left.. i doubt Fukudome will be headed anywhere anytime soon.. I could be Byrd being traded for a few players in July before the deadline.. he deserves to be on a good team.. maybe the Rangers would want him back Chris Davis for Byrd straight up the Cubs need a good 1st baseman anyway
Fukodome is Free Agent after 2011…Byrd after 2012. Soriano is an anchor for four more years…not five. Jackson’s a CF anyway.
whoa whoa whoa, what’s with all the facts! Get that nonsense outta here.
My bad…lost my head for a minute.
And Burgess is a RF, with a very good arm, apparently. Had 26 assists a couple of years ago..no, that is not a typo. 26.
Didn’t the Cubs just sign Pena?
Yes, but he sucks.. he’ll have 180 SOs and if he’s lucky 10 HRs by the end of August.. and hopefully be traded for low level prospect in July along with Ramirez. I’d rather have Derek Lee who is washed up and at the end of a decent career after this year
Pena is a modern day sabermetric player. In the old days he wouldn’t be rated as high as he is today. He’s reminds me of a Dave Kingman type.
Jaramillo will fix Pena and make him a better contact hitter and less free swinging. He will endure at Wrigley I predict 35+ hr and .280 avg. and under 100 K’s He will help Byrd in the 3 hole and Soriano after him. Castro, Colvin, Byrd, Pena, Soriano Soto, Ramirez, Dewitt.
Lets just be realistic and hope for .260AVG and a .380OBP with 30 bombs and 100RBI. And just to be honest thats my prayer on what he hits.
Fukudome will be gone next year – off the books that opens up right field if Colvin doesn’t fall off in the sophomore jinx. look for Fielder or Pujols at 1B in 2012 for the cubs. with Silva, ramirez and fukudome off the payroll the Cubs will be the only team that can afford one of those premier 1B, if the cubs talk Cashman into taking Z’s contract that frees up much more money. The cubs made a lot of moves but in what they have done they should be scrappy and competitive this year. Look for a surprise.
can’t belive the nats gave up micheal for this guy
he was an AFL allstar, just thius summer, if i recall.
He wasn’t an AFL all star. He’s blocked by Harper and Werth and he hasn’t even proved himself in AA let alone looking like a big league prospect. Part of paying for guys like Harper and Werth is so that you define and secure those positions so that you can focus your farm on other areas of need. Secure position player spots with reliable options and draft and develop pitching.
Again, please stop with the facts. 🙂
actually he was an AFL Rising Star…
mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=OF&sid=l…
I’m not against trading him, I just think that we should’ve gotten more for him
actually he was an AFL Rising Star…
mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=OF&sid=l…
I’m not against trading him, I just think that we should’ve gotten more for him
If the Cubs’ player development guys can turn Michael Burgess into even an MLB 4th outfielder, they should all be given seven figure bonuses. He’s among the least likely players in the game to convert his (only so-so) tools into actual baseball skills.
Kinda down on Burgess, eh – his plate discipline/contact rate is the only lacking tool. He has above average power and speed, and a rifle in RF. Plate discipline can at least be taught. Do I think he’s a stud – no, but he could certainly be a starting RF.
His plate discipline isn’t that bad either. He did walk at around an 11% rate last year. He’s not Jason Heyward, but he can at least take a walk once in a while.
Wow!! 3 players for Gorzelanny.. its a guarantee they will never make the major leagues but why trade for a 6th OF they got the dude from TB and signed Reed Johnson they need a 3b who is ready to step up right now and start at 3rd.. the Cubs are desperate for a 3rd baseman..
No love for Rami? He may have character flaws but he can be one of the best 3B in the league at times. Vitters is still only 21, hasnt been long enough to close the book on him yet. Plus Marwin Gonzalez is showing some promise in winter league. I think were good at 3B for the time being.
Sorry, but you are not going to get a starting 3B that is going to step right in and be any good for Gorzelanny. Ram is there for now.
Except they have that guy who led the team in HR and RBI despite having a down year. Where do you come up with this stuff?
He would get no playing time with us with Werth and Harper. He batted 210 in the AfL, with 1 homerun, he strikeouts out a ton.
Wow, Burgess was the Nats #6 Prospect last year, nice haul, wonder who else they got.
Our farm system is not that great. We’ve got a few guys at the top that are legit in Harper and guys with some big league experience. But after Harper, Espinosa, Ramos, and Norris the drop off in the farm system is pretty steep.
Jim Callis at Baseball America on Burgess: Big raw power mixed with a lot of strikeouts. Strong RF arm.
He’s a lefty too, I think. I think his ceiling is RF/bench lefty platoon player personally.
he’s the next adam dunn
Kevin Goldstein of BP: New Cubs OF Michael Burgess is small, bulky guy with big power and good approach, just wish hit tool was better.
He’s at least two years away from even smelling the majors and he’s one of Jim Bowden’s infamous toolsy high school position player signings. I’m rather happy the Nats got something of value back for him, and I hope that they aren’t giving much in the way of pitching back. One of the Guzman guys (Tatusko or Roark) and maybe one of the relievers that they don’t believe as much in would be good.
How can you be small and bulky?
small is in reference to his height, bulky is in reference to his weight
Small and bulky sounds better than short and fat.
Short and stocky in other words.
kirby puckett
“HIS NAME IS DAN UGGLA!” -whoever the Marlins voice guy is
Burgess isnt much, a 4th OF at best
lol because youre a scout and a fortune teller at the same time right? you must be a nats fan. sorry you guys lost this trade
um, read what the socuts say this year and get back to me. If you think he as harper and Werth ahead of him, so yah 4th OF. your probobly a cubs fan trying to convise yourself that you got a big time steal
u said hes a 4th OFer.. not a 4th OFer on the nats. thanks for morris too. u guys lose. gorz couldnt even crack our 5th starter spot
You are a Cubs fan. One how do we lose if we traded to guys who wouldent have cracked the majors with us, for a guy who will make our rotation. to many K’s to make it as a star, as you make him out to be. Morris is 23 years old and at A ball, and behind about 15 guys for a spot. your AA team loves this trade though.
Michael Burgess once hit 50 homers for me in Baseball Mogul. So, I think this is a bad deal.
😉
Burgess has potential to be a great RFer.. nobody knows if he will be or not but the people saying hes a 4th OFer are obviously Nats fans trying to make themselves feel better about the trade. He has big time power and a big time arm. If he develops right, the cubs got a big time steal
It’s not us trying to feel better about the trade; we’ve been waiting for a breakout from this guy for ages. It’s just not coming.
For ages? Really? The guy is only 22 and has spent only 4 years in the minors coming out of HS. Not exactly a “lifer”.
He certainly has room for improvement but a 21 yo kid @ A+/AA with 26 dbls, 18 hrs and a .265/.357/.465 slash isn’t exactly chopped liver. HIs ko’s have decreased in 3 consecutive years and he’s making better contact. Who knows? He can turn out to be a decent power bat. He can always be tried at 1B.
Yeah! Big Time!
Joking. I wish the Cubs wouldn’t have traded Gorzo – I liked him. He was a solid lefty, and I worry about not having a lefty in the rotation. Seems to me moving James Russell into the rotation, as has been suggestion, just compounds the problem that we had before we traded Gorzelanny – too many arms, not enough spots.
I agree Cubs will regret trading Garzelanny. From a Cub rival point of view, he was easily better than their other 2 veterans Wells (a one year wonder in 2009) and Silva (a nice couple months to begin 2010 not withstanding).
With each of the Cards, Cubs and Brewers having very strong 1-3 starters, it’s likely going to come down to the back end performance. I’ll take Brewer pair of Wolf and Narveson.
You are of course assuming that Wells and Silva are going to be in the rotation. It seems to me like they are setting things up for Cashner to head north as either the 4 or 5 guy in the rotation. Why waste another year of control as a pen guy when they have a deeper pen this year. If they want him as a starter then why wait unless he has just a horrendous spring in which case he’ll be in AAA anyway.
And as far as backend value id take Silva, Wells and Cashner at 7M for this year along with Silvas expiring contract as opposed to the contract given out to Wolf before last year. I know that we have given out some bad contracts but wow. 9.5M each of the next 2 years for a guy that had one ok year in a pitchers park in LA.
I dislike the Nats, but I hate Burgess. He’s been over-rated since he was a HS junior; he was among the least likeable kids I’ve ever met at any AFLAC game and he’s neither smart nor committed enough to convert his abilities into skills.
I do think that Burgess’ character issues have improved over the last year or so. Rizzo made him repeat high A this year and that was something of a wakeup call. He shortened his swing, improved his contact and had a solid year for Potomac. The issue is that it’s very much an open question whether he can even hit in AA, especially given his weak AFL.
You gleaned this all off what I presume was a brief meeting at an Aflac game 5-6 years ago– and have now written him off based on that?
I dont think the Cubs should have done this deal. An all right handed rotation? But for the Nats, we really needed this.
That’s kind of overrated, in my mind. Even if there was just 1 lefty, there would be a lot of 3/4 game series where the Cubs threw 3/4 straight right hander’s out there. Not really that big of a deal. I’d just hope they put their best five starters out there. That’s the issue I have with the deal. To me, this all but guarantees that they’re going to give Samardzija every possible chance to start the year in the rotation, to justify his contract. Maybe the same with Silva. That’s somewhat disappointing.
Hes been developing for 4 years. Cant hit the breaking ball.
like the guy in major league
“Hats for bats. Keep bats warm.”
“Are you saying that Jesus Christ can’t hit a curveball?”
And im not saying he cant be good, but what do we need with him with Bryce Harper and Jayson Werth.
AJ Morris rumored to be one of the pitchers. Don’t like that. He’s been converted to a reliever and seems to me to have a good chance of making it. Nats have a ton of relievers they like higher up the food chain, though.
ESPN.com’s Keith Law on Burgess: “Burgess doesn’t project as an everyday player in the majors — he has plus raw power and puts on a show in BP, but doesn’t recognize offspeed stuff at all and unless that changes he won’t make enough contact to be more than an emergency callup.”
Pretty harsh criticism for a 22 year old.
Harsh perhaps, but accurate. And, Law isn’t “criticizing” Burgess, he’s evaluating him and rendering a judgement which is what Keith Law is paid to do.
people said the same thing about Tyler Colvin
Now the Cubs need to trade another of their starters to the blue jays for some additional rh middle relief.
Silva or Wells… Take your pick.
I’d trade Wells but we got him from the Jays. Would like to trade Silva but there’s that contract thing. So, my pick would be Coleman. Just don’t see much potential there. We could get another reliever for him.
I don’t think you will see too much if any of Silva. The team said they will give him a chance to compete for a starters spot if he reported to spring training in shape. Just two days ago it was reported he gained weight from last year. He was already overweight and with heart issues. I think the Cubs have to be careful here. While they are trying to get something out of him, health issues are touchy. We’ll see if they stick to their word about him when the season starts. They might DL him or bury him in the pen, too. Either way, as the season starts or moves along, Silva will be a non factor.
Yeah, I agree with you. I think that the Cubs will probably DL him. We still need a better middle reliever though. I think wells gets a spot in the rotation and hopefully cashner. Would still like it if the Cubs traded coleman and possibly another mid-level prospect for a reliever.
Yeah, I agree with you. I think that the Cubs will probably DL him. We still need a better middle reliever though. I think wells gets a spot in the rotation and hopefully cashner. Would still like it if the Cubs traded coleman and possibly another mid-level prospect for a reliever.
I hope the Cubs are not counting on Silva for anything this year. Any production you get from him should be considered an unexpected bonus. His value is in his deal ending after this year and he got Milton Bradley out of town.
Rotation:
1. Hernandez
2. Marquis
3. Gorzelanny
4. Lannan
5. Atilano/Zimmermann/Martin/Martis/Stammen/Wang/Mock/Detwiler/Maya/Gaudin
Lot of #5 options, as you can see. But it’s not a winning rotation if you ask me
You’ve never watched a Nats game or you wouldn’t have made this statement. Watch than talk.
Jordan Zimmermann’s pretty much guaranteed to make the rotation. Insert him between Hernandez and Marquis, especially since Marquis is a guy they want to pitch well so that they can flip him before his non arb eligible walk year. This whole year is about setting up the Nats for 2012 from a rotation standpoint since their prayers for Cliff Lee were rejected and their deal for Zack Greinke was rejected. They can’t count on Hernandez or Marquis for 2011. Atilano/Stammen/Mock/Guadin???/Martis/Martin aren’t really starting options at this point either.
2012 rotation as they see it is:
1) Strasburg
2) Zimmermann
3)
4) Lannan
5)
They are trying to generate options for additional spots. Gorzellany is team controlled, pitched okay in 2010 and seems to be a guy who could be a swing starter upgrade over Stammen. There’s a lot of competition in the rotation and they should multiple solid options in AAA should starter fail and multiple options in AAA should they decide tomove guys like Hernandez or Marquis or Wang at the deadline if they exceed expectations. Rizzo is really, really hoping that Marquis can pitch his way to deadline relevance and end up better than Millwood was at the deadline this year.
Souldrummer-
Thoughtful Nats analysis, as always. A pleasure to read it.
+1/2St.
Thanks much. Somebody’s got to follow this team. It will all be worth it on that great day in the beyond when the Nats win. Thankfully I’m young enough to wait long enough even if it doesn’t happen during the present 2012-2013 window.
“Thankfully I’m young enough to wait long enough even if it doesn’t happen during the present 2012-2013 window.”
Ha! Yeah, many young Cub fans say the same thing. 🙂
Different expectations. For Cubs fans, it’s that wait for the World Series. For this Nats fan, I’d like to just make the playoffs and hit 82-80 in the forseeable future.
Different expectations. For Cubs fans, it’s that wait for the World Series. For this Nats fan, I’d like to just make the playoffs and hit 82-80 in the forseeable future.
“Thankfully I’m young enough to wait long enough even if it doesn’t happen during the present 2012-2013 window.”
Ha! Yeah, many young Cub fans say the same thing. 🙂
Pretty sure the Nats know they’re not going to win this season, but Gorz makes them a BIT better and is locked in for a few yrs yet. Good trade.
Better than last year!
Jim Callis at BA: Morris ranked No. 18, Burgess No. 19 on our #Nationals Top 30 in the upcoming Prospect Handbook. Other pitcher wasn’t on Top 30.
More like
1. Hernandez
2. Zimmermann
3. Gorzelanny
4. Lannan
5. Marquis/Maya/Atilano/Martin/Detwiler
Well, i put Marquis in the #2 slot because they have to get at least SOMETHING out of that horrible 2 year $14 milllion deal
Put Marquis in the no. 3 spot. I don’t think Atilano or Martin have legit shots to make the rotation. I do think Chien-Ming Wang will get an opportunity to pitch in DC in the rotation at some point. Having a guy like Gorzellany who could be a swing man would be a nice option. He can take the fifth spot if Maya doesn’t pan out and shift to the pen if Wang does.
Hey Souldrummer are people really this ingnorant about the Nats? I haven’t been to one of these comments threads in a long while, but heck they really don’t know anything about the Nats. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Ha!
When you’re not a winning team and you don’t have too many prospects that are attractive, there really isn’t that much of a need to watch the minor league games or follow the guys in person. So people just kind of look at the stats. If you look at Burgess’ stats you see .265, left handed, power, plus arm, high RBI and say he’s intriguing. If you’ve actually seen him play, you see a guy who hasn’t shown that he’ll be able to close the hole in his swing.
I can see why, but judging by what rizzo said, he will have to earn his spot, rather that is fact or not, who knows. I thnk Marquis will suprise people this year
The only way Marquis will surprise you is if he gives the money back.
Thats right, not the other rotation people put up. Thats not bad and pretty good depth.
Gorzelanny for all his “value” is still a back of the rotation guy. Considering the Cubs would like to move Cashner and/or Russell into the rotation, that value is better served recouping some of the talent they lost. Burgess has potential…toolsy maybe, but he also has a good approach and that gives him a chance to develop. There’s no way they can replace Archer or Lee, but they can replace some of that depth they lost.
He ain’t a back of the rotation guy on the Nats
Thy have plenty of depth at middle infield and pitcher.
That’s a good point. They did trade from depth to begin with, and you could say Garza essentially replaces Archer as a good young arm with #2 starting potential — except that Garza is already there.
Quality wise they don’t have a SS as good as Lee in the system, though they already have a 21 year old SS who’s already got a year of MLB experience under his belt. There are candidates to fill in that middle infield void – LeMahieu, Flaherty, Watkins, etc. It’s an area that the Cubs scout pretty well, so they’ll probably address it in the draft as well. Lots of gloom and doom about the Garza deal but the Cubs will be fine. I wish we could have gotten him for less, but the organization is still strong and deep — and this Gorzelanny trade should add to that depth..
It looks like Burgess is 4 years younger than Guyer so i suppose you can look at that as a positive.
What they don’t have depth in is top of the order hitters – Lee, and to a lesser extent Guyer, seemed to have that potential.
That is true. Much more Lee than Guyer, though. Guyer has been erratic with his plate discipline and it was way down last year. He’s one of those guys that does a lot of things, but nothing particularly well — except for maybe defense. He’ll be a 4th outfielder, in my opinion. I suppose Watkins can turn things around and be that leadoff guy/2nd baseman. Another guy to watch is Matt Szczur, a speedy OF’er with a decent bat and patience whom I didn’t think would sign. We didn’t see a lot from him last year but we may get a better idea next season. But other than that I don’t really see that kind of player in the system. Maybe I’m missing somebody?
True on Guyer though he seems to make a ton of contact and steals a lot of bases
B Jackson is really the only thing close. As you know, the “raw, toolsy” prospect has been a cub draft staple over the years. I thought that might change with Wilken but it has really not.
Wilken likes his toolsy guys too but he looks for more baseball skills to go with the athleticism. Can’t complain about the job he’s done at all, though. He inherited a system devoid of prospects and has made it respectable. No way that the Cubs could have made a deal like the Garza trade 5 years ago.
No, i am definitely a fan of his drafts. Just pointing out a weakness of the system.
Darwin Barney could be a surprise this season. I see a lot of people complaining about second base, but the Cubs have a lot of depth there at the major league level. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see Blake Dewitt have a break out year. I also think Lemehieu will be getting a lot more attention now that Lee is gone. This same thing goes for Chris Carpenter in regards to Archer.
Cubs won this trade, its not that Gorzelanny sucks, he’s not made of his raw numbers, its that his value is not that high, 23 decent starts doesnt make a safe bet. The Nats overpaid for him by one player.
Who might that player be? This is AJ Morris, a guy who tops out as a power righty setup guy in a year or so plus purging the system of two Bowden high schoolers that Rizzo doesn’t fully believe in or believe in the organization’s ability to develop. Burgess is blocked by Harper and Werth regardless.
Both teams are trading blocked assets. Cubs are trying to rebuild their farm a little bit after trading prospects for Garza. Nats are trying to convert some of the depth at blocked positions to answer some of the major question marks in their rotation. Plus Gorzelanny’s a team controlled lefty through 2013.
Agreed. Both teams gave up surplus to fill a need. The Nats get a guy for their rotation, the Cubs replenish some organizational depth. It’s the kind of deal hometown fans like because they both see themselves getting something they need at little cost.
It’s a good trade for both teams – both teams won. Cubs get rid of some payroll, get some organizational depth. Maybe they get lucky and 1 of those guys has some value in the majors at some point. Nationals get a starting pitcher who is actually better than just about anyone they have except for Zimmerman (Strasburg doesn’t count since he may not pitch this year). Someone else posted their rotation, and WOW is it bad. Gorzelanny stinks and it sounds like the 3 minor leagues (don’t think I can use the word prospects) the Cubs got are fringe major league players at best. For anyone who thinks Gorzelanny is any good, he’ll be a journeyman pitcher for the rest of his career. He’ll always look better to the team that doesn’t have him. It’s Tom Gorzelanny! It’s not like Hendry was going to be able to get that much in the way of quality prospects for him.
even though i am a met fan i am starting to like the way the nationals team is shaping into
i feel the same way… but i still don’t think the nationals have what it takes yet
Perhaps Gorzelanny’s career
3.18 ERA vs. Braves
1.38 ERA vs. Marlins
3.44 ERA vs. Phillies
had some appeal for the Nats?
He makes Lannan look like garbage.
He makes Lannan look like garbage.
With the phillies rotation, his era has to be 0 to be affective
nice pick up. the prospects we gave up will amount to nothing.
You don’t know that
it’s been extremely frustrating watching Michael Burgess the last few years. I hope he turns his skills into production but it is highly unlikely
I am telling you… nationals will make some noise this season.
Sad face:(
Good luck tom kick our but when you play us!
I wish i would have meet you at the cubs convention, but i was in line for that hectic internatinal ball room line… but i got Pena’s autograph
I’m still waiting to hear about a surprise PTBNL or Cash coming the Cub’s way.
Was this trade really a 4 ERA pitcher with upside for 3 Nobodies?
Jim Hendry is usually a good trade guy in my mind, but this time I just don’t see it.
(Don’t get me wrong, Hendry isn’t all good. When it comes to free agents, he over pays every time.)
C’mon guys, it’s Tom gorzelanny, don’t get your panties in a bunch over the cube trading Tommy G!!