Here's a look at some of the many and various takes on Andy Pettitte's retirement, which will be announced Friday …
- The Yankees will be no worse for the wear without the services of the aging and declining Pettitte, writes Jon Paul Morosi of FOXSports.com. Although Pettitte would have been a convenient solution for the problem of the Yankees' thin starting rotation, he wouldn't necessarily have been an ideal fit on account of his diminishing workload over the past three years, according to Morosi.
- The Bronx Bombers should have assumed Pettitte was going to retire and executed an offseason plan accordingly, writes Wallace Matthews of ESPNNewYork.com. Instead, they're now in a bind with the prospect of Ivan Nova, Sergio Mitre, Freddy Garcia, Bartolo Colon and a handful of promising but young prospects battling for two rotation spots.
- Pettitte's decision is mildly surprising to Newsday's Ken Davidoff, who notes that Pettitte must have been pretty seriously contemplating a return, considering the left-hander had been throwing recently. Davidoff wonders whether the Yankees' failure to sign Cliff Lee and subsequently diminished World Series hopes factored into Pettitte's decision.
- Pettitte simply must not have been "feeling it" after he began preparing for the 2011 season, tweets Buster Olney of ESPN.com. Don't expect a midseason return — a la Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez — for Pettitte, adds Olney.
- Whether Pettitte would return was as uncertain as a "flip of the coin," notes Tom Verducci of SI.com. Ultimately, the allure of spending more time with his family pulled the industrious Pettitte away from the game, according to Verducci.
- Considering they have a stellar lineup, solid bullpen, considerable financial resources for future moves and a top-heavy rotation that could be effective if things break right, the Yankees needn't panic, writes Anthony Castrovince of MLB.com.
- The Yankees' signing of reliever Rafael Soriano, thereby giving them a "lockdown pen," seems especially important in the wake of Pettitte's retirement, tweets Jon Heyman of SI.com.
- Our own Mike Axisa of River Avenue Blues recounts his signature Pettitte moment.
- And the debate begins in earnest: Jayson Stark of ESPN.com writes that Pettitte is not quite a Hall of Famer.
Very good pitcher but no, not a HOFer.
how can you not say a HOFer? 5 rings? one of the best postseason pitchers of all time .. GTFO
Exactly how is he one of the best post-season pitchers of all time? His post-season ERA is over 3.80. Oooh wow, he has the most post-season wins. Could that possibly be because he has 42 post-season starts? And he should also now get HOF credit for being on the best team in baseball for the last 15 years?
I agree Pettitte isn’t a HOFer, but by your reasons why, that should exclude Jeter than right?
i’m a yankees fan, and i agree, wins don’t mean ANYTHING
He’s not. The rings were as a result of a team effort. He didn’t win them by himself, and when it comes down to it he was just a damn good pitcher. He isn’t a legend, and he wasn’t one of the greats to play the game.
One pitcher who I find comprable is Jack Morris. If he doesn’t make it to the Hall then there is no way in hell Pettitte goes, and even if Jack does somehow get there his numbers were all in all better than Pettitte’s. Anyway you slice it, I just don’t see anyway to justify him getting into the Hall of Fame.
During the regular season he was an above average pitcher not a great pitcher. His postseason stats added to his regular simply don’t make him a HOFer in my opinion.
I think I’m a MLBTR HOF’er…What do y’all think?
I think it’s terrible that bags of potato chips only come with half of the bag full.
I know!
True Story: Campbell’s soup, and tropicana orange juice, did a GENIUSbut horrible thing to us consumers. They made their can and box (respectively) a fraction of an inch smaller, but are putting less content in. Therefore, they keep it the same price, but give you less. Pretty messed up? But now we know why they are leading the stock market at Wall Street unlike some horrible companies like Zion Oil and one of the worst, Nike.
However, Heinz is one of the best products out there. It’s doing really well. So big ups there. Buy some more ketchup everybody.
Yeah, it’s genius if you’re twelve. Pretty much all of those big companies have cheated the consumer out of their money like that for years and years.
I do agree with you on the ketchup though. Buy it people. And what does this have to do with baseball? Well I petition that we name the Marlins or A’s new stadum Ketchup Stadium or something of the sort.
There’s also Heinz field EP. Come on man.
But back to baseball, can not wait until Marlins ballpark opens up. Go Fish.
Yeah of course you could name a park Heinz field. It’s too obvious. I just really wanted to say Ketchup Stadium. Sounds funny.
But yeah, I’m quite excited to see how their new park looks compared to the unsightly and criminally empty confines of Sunlife.
But I’m going to miss Sun Life. The Marlins play non-classy, but good baseball there.
i love the marlins and feel so bad for them that they don’t have anyone in the stands. hopefully a new park will change that
But oh yeah, guys, I think we need an MLBTR HOF. I need you guys to vote me in first ballot. come on.
I like you man but don’t drop trow for votes, let them come to you!
I don’t want “likes.” I want MLBTR HOF votes, if there were such thing. And the president campaigns himself, so why can’t I?
Sorry Spannie, you’re a quality poster but you’ve never dominated your threads. HOFers should dominate. Maybe the veteran’s committee will vote you in.
I hear you. But haven’t I at least made an imapct? I mean, Albert Pujols makes out every 6/10 times right?
I think you are douchtastic.
The fact that you not only used the word twice, but killed it after that, is “douchtastic.”
It was funny at first. Now it’s not. Good night.
How do we know you haven’t used any PEDs? (Posting Enhancement Drugs)
I’d probably vote for you.
GTFO? you are douchtastic sir
you just described most of the yankees of any time period. while they have produced a lot of talent, you cant say that most of them are HOFers. he had a great career, but it wasnt HOF great.
That would probably be Curt Schilling, or at least over the last 30 years or so. His 11-2 record was matched by dominating performances for the most part and WS rings? well as was also mentioned here.. Not sure they really count, but Schill won 3 along the way..
100% agreement with you there. When people like jack Morris are not in, with pretty much equal records, finished games they started, threw nearly 900IP more and did not have the “luxury” of pitching for the NYY and massive run support for the bulk of his career.. well, lets just say there are several other people that deserve HOF nods (SP wise) 1st. Morris, Schilling, Tiant, Kaat, or at least as muchso.
If C. C. Sabatthia goes down to injury the Yankees will not have a starting pitching staff…. at least not one capable of competing with the likes of Boston, Toronto and Tampa Bay…
You can say that about most if not all potential playoff teams. If a team’s ace goes down the entire fanbase grits their teeth.
Exactly. I’m not going to say it, but come on…have some sense people.
If Felix Hernandez “goes down with injury”, the Mariners might as well move to Oklahome City.
I think the Mariners are the opposite of a contender though. Perhaps the Yankees are just in a more tenuous position than some of the other top teams?
I think he’s saying (or at least what I got out of this) is that while if Lester went down with an injury Bucholz would be there to pick up the slack, or if Halladay went down there’s that cushion. Same goes for a lot of the other contenders. Giants, Cards, or Reds. All of those teams have another potential ace to come in a keep the rotation steady. With the Yanks they have CC and no one else of ace quality to pick up some of his slack.
Open message to any and all Yankee followers:
1) How good is Andrew Brackman?
2) What are the odds Joba Chamberlain gets another look as a starter?
1.) Decent, but not ready yet.
2.) Slim to none. His shoulder is cooked, or so says Cash.
We might not get a chance to see Brackman pitch for the Yankees. He could be trade for a veteran starting pitching between now and July.
I really can’t see him being traded simply for a “vet”. I imagine it would have to be for a high caliber guy.
i don’t know what people see in brackman, last year was one of his best years in the minors and he really wasn’t that great, my view is that if you can’t put up good numbers in the minors, you can’t put up good numbers in the majors
1) I feel like they’re grooming him for a closer role rather than a starter.
2) I I hope he does get another chance. I prefer him over Mitre/Colon/Garcia/etc in the 5th spot. If he goes into a long relief role, he’s being wasted, imo.
Brackman is a good pitcher, B prospect. He has a good fastball and good curve. He doesn’t have 3 major league pitches, but he could be the best option the yankees have. If Soriano was not on the team, he’d most likely be next in line to be the closer after Rivera.
2) I hope he gets another chance, it seemed as if his shoulder got back to 100% the second half of last year. People forget up until that game against Texas (I think) when he came out because of his shoulder, he had an era under 3 as a starter, and he never gave up more then 3 runs per game. He’s the best option in my opinion, even better then Nova. If he doesn’t get a chance then it will probably be Nova at the 4, and Brackman or Garcia as the 5.
Yeah Ok, NOW no one’s that “surprised”. Just yesterday all these guys like Heyman & Olney were operating as if they were sure Pettite WAS going to return…even hedging their post season picks with Pettite in mind.
Nope. Especially not with his PED use.
Yeah, well Jayson Stark is not quite an author. How bout that, fool?
You showed him.
Morosi sounds pretty bitter. No one in their right mind would say any team would “be no worse for the wear without” Pettitte. Could’ve still been a very dangerous lefty.
That said, I’m sure glad he’s gone. Glad he won’t be causing problems for the Super Lefty Brigade from Boston.
The Yankee’s always find away to win every year but this year I wouldn’t be surprised if the fell back a bit; but it also wouldn’t surprise me if they had another stellar year.
Yanks aren’t deep in SP, and there aren’t many top of the rotation free agents available next offseason. Looks like Jesus will be traded for SP. Might have to throw in Mary and Joseph to get someone really nails.
They weren’t exactly deep last year and they finished with the 2nd best record in the AL, but out of the 30 teams, they ranked 22nd in starters ERA at 4.35
In 2009, they won the WS, and had a worse rotation ERA (4.48). Somehow though, they ranked 13th best. 2010 was definitely the Year of the Pitcher.
I seriously doubt that Pettitte’s decision was influenced by Yankees not signing Cliff Lee.
He already mentioned at the end of the ALCS that he was considering retirement. He also has enough playoff experience to know that the best team doesn’t always win. Who predicted that the SF Giants would be 2010 World Champs or that the Marlins would beat the Yankees in 2003? Because you have the best team on paper that doesn’t mean you are going to win.
Something that’s being completeld overshadowed here,
Dan, excellent post.
Thanks, Dave.
HILARIOUS. Just to recap the Yankee off-season propaganda:
Yankees: “We will get Cliff Lee”
Cliff Lee signs with Philadelphia
Yankees: “Not to worry, Andy Pettitte will be back”
Andy Pettitte retires
Yankees: “Andy was declining, and clearly wasn’t the answer anyway.”
Bartolo Colon is signed back from exile….
Did I miss anything?
How exactly is it that the Yankees are behind the “Andy is declining and might not have been effective anymore” crap?
I’m just getting ahead of tomorrows headline, that’s all.
Remember me when you see this tomorrow.
“Yankees: “Andy was declining, and clearly wasn’t the answer anyway.””
Show me someone who said that.
“Yankees: “Andy was declining, and clearly wasn’t the answer anyway.””
-Ryan, 2/3/11
Well of course!
“Did I miss anything? “.
Yes:
Ryan: “I am a troll”
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!
Bartolo Colon, Kevin Milwood, and Freddie Garcia.
That’s about 700lbs worth of “4th Starter”.
G’d Luck with that
Damn, there is nothing funner, or easier, than rattling the ol’ Yankee fan cage……
700 lbs? Seems a little low considering that’s close to Colon’s own weight.
Somehow according to B-R, he only weighs 185. Maybe they put it backwards and meant 581? lol
And 4th starter? Maybe Garcia and Millwood might each be 4/5 material. Colon is AAAA at best and I’d put his weight at 800 lbs. He comes with a matching piano case to bury him in. On the whole, they’d have a very shoddy 3-5 with the present staff, unless Nova can come through.
The fact that you liked what I commented about you must mean I’m not mistaken.
Yes, basically everything after “Cliff Lee signs with Philadelphia”.
Prediction: Yankees are slightly above .500 at the break, and at the deadline they trade Montero, Nunez, and Bentances/Banuelos for an ace. I don’t know who that would be, but I read somewhere that Cash was looking into a big trade either by ST, or later in the year.
I’m sorry, but does anyone else find it remarkably hypocritical that all of the mainstream media members suddenly are of the mindset that the Yankees weren’t prepared for this possibility and now they’ll need to scramble to figure things out. They knew this was possible and that is why they brought in Colon and Garcia. I’m not saying Colon or Garcia are the best options to replace Pettitte, but let’s be realistic a moment and not accept the mindset that the Yankees are seriously panicking over Andy’s decision. It’s a loss, yes, but there were never any certainties he would come back in the first place. The team was prepared for this.
Thank you.
I wonder if the Yankees pull off a “I”ll give you a bag of balls for Johan Santana” type trade knowing that the Mets are supposedly strapped for cash and might want to get his $20+ million off the books.
Considering Santana won’t pitch until midseason at the earliest, I’m thinking no.
I disagree, I think it’s a good idea that will almost never happen. They get Santana for cheap, the mets get their money and some low level prospects. But considering how shoulder surgery is almost a crapshoot, I’m not sure the yankees would do it. If this happens I would be very happy as a yankee fan, even though it’s entirely unlikely.
I’m thinking no. Cashman was reluctant to trade pitching prospects for Santana when he was healthy, years ago. Why would he take a hugh risk on a pitcher that’s had arm maladies the last few years and carries a large salary at this time?
Because his value is lower then it ever has been. Buy low, and hope he gets back to where he was. You give up low level prospects, take the salary on, and you can have 3 Aces in the future. CC Santana Hughes
I think he might do it because he potentially wouldn’t have to give up any prospects at all. The salary is huge but if Santana recovers all you have had to give up to acquire a top of the line starter is a bag of balls. Santana has supposedly already been cleared to start throwing but I have no idea when he would be back.
Santana has not been officially cleared yet. The latest news that the Mets have released is that he may join the team in June. Not very encouraging
GM Sandy Alderson said he had been medically cleared to start throwing. I read it on the internets.
If Santana is healthy, I think Cashman would take a chance to trade for him. He is only 32 and is contract is up in 2013 and the team has an option for the follow year.
If healthy he is much better than Freddy, Colon, Millwood or any other options available.
If he comes back before the deadline and shows he looks recovered and the Mets want nothing but salary relief I think it’s a slim possibility.
Yes, it’s possible. But from the Mets standpoint, can they really afford to do something like that? With the prices they’re charging, and the team they’re going to put on the field, do you think they would actually help their crosstown competition?Imagine if it did take place and Santana came back. Mets fans would raze Citi Field and the Wilpons would gladly go to jail in order to flee irate Mets fans.
Right now I can’t see any deals between the Mets and Yanks taking place, considering how snake bit the Mets seem to be.
I can agree with many of the points you make but I think it just depends on the Mets situation come June 2011. If the team is struggling and mired in 4th place or worse then they might decide to showcase Santana and trade him by the deadline or during the winter if they want to cut bait and rebuild.
If they let Beltran, Castillo, Perez and K-Rod walk they cut $48 mil off the payroll this winter. Move Santana and it goes to $70 mil plus saves another $50 mil in 2012 & 2013. If they decide to rebuild and trade Reyes for prospects then they can go for a full rebuild starting in 2012 w/ only about $45-$50 in payroll commitments (Bay, Wright, Dickey and a bunch of players w/ less than 6 years service time). They can choose to go young in 2012 and look towards 2013 when there are a ton of great pitchers on the market. Just a thought.
It was one of the first ideas Francesa threw out there yesterday – before he knew Pettitte was retiring. His rant went something like ‘Yankee fans, calm down about the likes of Garcia, etc. Yankees are shopping at KMart right now. They’re hoping Garcia, etc. can get them like 5 wins by mid season. If they stink and Andy doesn’t return, they’ll just release these guys and pony up a couple of their good prospects for a mid season trade. His next statement was soemthing like: there’s a very good lefty across town coming back about mid season. With the Mets troubles, trading for Santana won’t be that far fetched.
You heard it from the Pope….
I actually brought this idea up in another thread.Johan has already been presumed to throw and this was one of th top lefties if not the top left in the game a year or 2 ago.A one to punch of CC. And Johan would be dominate if he’s healthy and throwing like he used to be.Mark Buruhle is another option,Chris Carpenter is another one which I would love for the reds to as it gets him outta the NL central and gives us a ace and Cards could move him to keep Big Al just like Buruhle could be moved for salary relief.Edwin jackson,maybe anothwr white sox lefty John Danks if they moved him always been a big fan of him.Wonder how Jake Peavy and Ben Sheets is? Sorry about the typing I’m in my cell phone
I could possibly see some of the other pitchers becoming available at the trade deadline but, even then, I think that the price to acquire them might be high. The thing about Santana is the immediate financial woes of the Mets due to the Bernie Madoff fiasco. I think he is the only (potential) top of the line starter that might be had for almost nothing.
dude only retired because of the clemens trail.
I will always remember Pettitte for proving the healing capabilities of HGH. Truly an inspiration for medical science.
@ Dylan Zane
Doubtful on a number of points. Cashman would not want to take on another large contract even though the Yankees can afford it. Why would he make a trade in the hope that Santana can come back? Shoulder surgery is always a crap shoot. Contrary to recent hysteria Cashman doesn’t have to take any crazy gambles.
From the Mets point of view, it’s not a trade they would be too eager to do as well.
Without Santana, they have no starting rotation at all. The Mets would have to offer salary relief to the Yanks in order to make the deal. I can’t see them making that concession. In addition, what would that say to the Mets fan base, trading away their Ace to the crosstown rivals because of money? They just made a statement that the recent Maddoff troubles won’t affect their way of conducting business.There would be no one but ushers and vendors at Citi Field were that to take place. Yankees may very well sign another pumpkin to some minor league deal, but a Mets and Yankees deal won’t be one of them.
Correction. 2011 will be his 3rd year in the minors.
Correction. 2011 will be his 3rd year in the minors.
Some of the comments on here are funny. People getting pissed off over SPAN’s comments.
No Pettite? Good news for us Twins fans. One less quality start against us in the DS.
Yankees must give up 2011 hahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!
1 BOS
2 TB
3 NYY
Hah, two hears healthy from Soriano in neutral parks after plenty of injuries and now he comes to a hitters park and the Yanks have a lockdown pen? Giving Rivera and Feliciano’s age the benefit of the doubt, the Yankees are barely above average in the pen.
Robertson has been solid but Logan, Marte, and Joba are very unpredictable at this point. This isn’t to say the idea of Rivera/Sori/Feliciano isn’t filthy because it is.
Pettitte is HOF material if you ask me, I think he had one more season in him though. Get to that 250 W mark and he’d be a shoo-in IMO.
He is is gonna be a HOF’er, but not until probably 5th-year and beyond.
as a red sox fan and a baseball fan I would have to say Pettitte will be a HOF’r he was one of the best lefties in the game..his ped use was for an elbow injury and atleast he was man enough to admit to use unlike some other players (not mentioning names)..have a great retirement andy you have earned it.
“Yankees are slightly above .500 at the break, and at the deadline they trade Montero, Nunez, and Bentances/Banuelos for an ace. I don’t know who that would be”
The question, though, is who? The problem the Yankees are facing right now is a problem that’s been slowly escalating for big market teams the last few years: GM’s are locking up their aces young these days. There are very few ace quality pitchers these days that aren’t locked up for three years or more and just about any multi year deal for a front of the rotation starter is considered a bargain with the value put on pitching. The only guys available in trade are guys on expiring contracts (Greinke) and guys who aren’t worth what they’re getting paid (Lowe, Zito). The former haven’t been moved yet and have been getting snagged by smaller market teams with better farm systems who are just a pitcher away from then playoffs and the latter aren’t going to help the Yankees much.
Well that’s why I said I don’t know. You have to hope that Seattle realizes they won’t win by the time Felix’s contract is done, so they should get maximum value back. Or, the same situation but down in Florida for Johnson.
The issue you run into on both of them is the same as the Cliff Lee situation: they’re on team friendly deals and someone with a better farm system is likely going to be interested in. If Hernandez or Johnson came available, teams like the Blue Jays or Angels or Braves and on and on would want to get in on them. The Yankees’ farm system HAS drastically improved, but it’s not so good yet that the Yanks are likely to be capable of outbidding any of those teams to get one of these guys in the unlikely event they become available before the last year of their deals. As has been noted previously, the Sox reportedly had a massive offer on the table for Hernandez and were still shot down, and that was a few years ago, when their farm system was still better than the Yankees and BEFORE Hernandez was extended on a below market deal.
Haha. It would take Hughes, Cano, Montero, at least one pitching prospect, and maybe Gardner or swisher for Jack Z to do anything short of laugh at Cashman.
I understand your point on value though. I’ve been praying they trade Ichiro before he has completely list his already low value.
I really hope Ivan Nova is lights out!
Losing Pettite is no big deal? It’s clear that Fox and it’s employees know as little about baseball as they do about politics…or reality in general.