The Pirates have announced that they’ve signed Konnor Griffin to a nine-year extension. The news was first reported by Jon Heyman of The New York Post this morning. The deal runs through the 2034 season, and MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand reports that the deal is worth $140MM. Heyman adds that the deal includes incentives that could take the deal up to $150MM for the Excel client, while Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports that there are no options or deferred money in the deal. Sherman adds that the deal’s incentives are based on MVP voting for the 2026-31 seasons. According to Noah Hiles of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the deal includes a $12MM signing bonus. $5MM of that bonus will be paid out this year, followed by $3.5MM in 2027 and $3.5MM in 2028.
ESPN’s Buster Olney first reported that the sides were working on a deal in the range of nine years and $140MM last week, and now the deal is done. Even as the sides working on an extension has been common knowledge for a while now, it’s still surely a huge relief to Pirates fans that the deal is officially done. The consensus top prospect in the sport is now locked up through the end of the 2034 season, giving Pittsburgh three additional years of team control over their up-and-coming star. The term is convenient for Griffin as well. The youngster is still a few weeks shy of his 20th birthday, meaning that he’ll hit free agency ahead of his age-29 season when the deal wraps up in 2034. That should leave Griffin in line for a massive payday down the line, assuming he plays up to expectations.
Those expectations are certainly lofty. The youngster has gotten rave reviews from prospecting outlets across the board, and he’s viewed as a legitimate five-tool player with MVP-level upside. He’s certainly done everything he can to support those fawning evaluations so far. In his first professional season last year, he slashed .333/.415/.527 across three levels of the minors with 21 homers, 23 doubles, four triples, and a whopping 65 steals in just 122 games. He did all that while playing impressive defense at shortstop, and picked right back up where he left off upon starting the season at Triple-A. He went 7-for-16 (.438 average) with three steals, three doubles, and more walks than strikeouts in five games with the Pirates’ Indianapolis affiliate before they pulled the trigger and called him up to the majors.
Since being promoted to the majors, Griffin has struggled somewhat, with a .176/.300/.235 slash line in his first five games. There’s not much reason to put significant stock into a sample size that small, but it is worth noting that Griffin isn’t exactly guaranteed to hit the ground running in the majors. There’s a reason Juan Soto was the last hitter to reach the majors as a teenager before Griffin, and even Mike Trout was a below-average hitter in the majors at Griffin’s age. For the time being, Griffin’s exceptional speed on the base paths and strong defense at shortstop are already a big asset for the Pirates even if the star-level hitting contributions come later.
The extension makes Griffin the highest-paid Pirates player in franchise history, and puts a bow on a busy offseason where the club got aggressive in its efforts to contend. Brandon Lowe, Ryan O’Hearn, and Marcell Ozuna were all brought in this winter by the Pirates after the club missed on some much bigger fish like Kyle Schwarber, Kazuma Okamoto, and Eugenio Suarez to whom they were linked. Even with those top-tier pieces signing elsewhere, Pittsburgh has undeniably upgraded their offense in a big way as they try to make the most of the time during which they’ll have both Griffin and reigning NL Cy Young award winner Paul Skenes in the same uniform. All that spending has raised the luxury tax payroll considerably, and RosterResource indicates that their figure sits just under $127MM for luxury tax purposes at the moment. That should rise to the $142MM range once Griffin’s extension is accounted for.
Good for Pirates fans. Now it’s the Tigers turn to do this with McGonigle.
Seems worth it. Is Master Skenes next?
That Pirate ship has sailed.
Yeah, that would be nice. But as a Pirates fan, I think we have to value his next couple seasons here and realize he’s probably destined for a huge payday with a major market franchise. Great pitcher and solid individual but it’s hard to imagine him wishing to stay here unless he received some assurance that suddenly ownership planned to spend on a par with one of those franchises to ensure competing for a championship every season.
Unless the MLB financial situation is changed substantially the Pirates nor even the middle market teams are never going to compete for World Series titles on any sort of semi regular basis with the big market teams.
This is the law of the jungle in MLB and I do not see the Players Union allowing it to change.
Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Washington, KC, Arizona, etc, etc, etc, would all like a word. 🤣
You’ve placed TB in the conversation and two teams that emulate the Rays way of doing things. To wit, draft well and develop. Develop some more. Promote to the majors while continuing to draft well. Watch the kids mature and do well, trade them when contracts become untenable and add to the farm
Cleveland and KC are following this pattern but one could hardly call any of them serious contenders year in and year out
Yeah, it’s nice to have outliers competing in the playoffs or WS once in a while, but it’s a sport dominated by the big market teams and will be for the foreseeable future
Small market teams get short windows. LAD, NYY, NYM (current owner), are expected to be in playoffs every year. Cleveland, TB, Washington, KC, ARZ are not in that conversation, no matter how much they would like a word. (How did you miss Milwaukee?)
9 years ain’t good enough for you? This isn’t football he can’t hold out for more.
You don’t get it. Tampa just got lucky by getting to the playoffs using their formula. Their focus on spin rate has given us year+ long recovery time from surgeries of McClanahan, Rasmussen, Springs, Glasnow, and others who would’ve added wins that would’ve made them higher seeds in the playoffs or maybe helped them win the ring. Their focus on HR or nothing hitting and focus of defense over hitting has given them .200 or lower hitters galore and guys like Siri, Zunino, Margot, Alex Jackson, Walls, and Fortes get extended time in the lineup, costing them wins and possible playoff spots. Their ownership could spend money to extend players or sign better free agents, but they just pocket the money. They could’ve signed Gerrit Cole instead of or in addition to Charlie Morton before the 2020 season, and that could’ve gave them the 2 wins they needed to beat the Dodgers in the Series. Keeping Snell after that season would’ve given them a better staff than what they had (Luis Patino really panned out well, didn’t he?), and they may have beat the Indians. Now the ownership has the profit they want, but the ‘Rays Way’ isn’t working because .200 hitters and a pitching staff that usually loses an arm or two a year to Tommy John due to focus on increased spin rate doesn’t win ballgames.
I agree with you that drafting is big, but you also have to win trades, and the guys they have been getting for big names like Arozarena, Baz, Glasnow, the Lowe’s, and others haven’t been cutting it. Other teams that are following their lead and trading guys before free agency will just be wild card teams and maybe reach the championship series but never win. You have to go all in like the Dodgers, Yankee$, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Cubs, Mets, Padres, etc and even though you may not win, you sure put your club in a decent position year in year out.
It’s up to Skenes. It would only be for 2 years. Does he want to be ultra rich instead of just rich sure thing guarantee or does he want to roll the dice and go for mega super rich? I would take the sure thing. A lot of terrible diseases out there. He’ll probably be fine but why take any chances. Can still get that mega contract later just won’t be as mega.
I understand all of these points @Karensjer, but they don’t pertain to my point regarding how TB got there to begin with. I mean, your concerns and comments are warranted, of course, but TB did things from the ground up and kept that blueprint. It was akin to a pyramid scheme only that once at the top, the guys they developed into stars went elsewhere
I think most small market teams now go this route with varying degrees of success Difficult to sustain over a protracted period
To be fair they extended Wander Franco and he immediately got in massive legal trouble…
That’s for sure re: McGonigle. And re: Skubal, the time is NOW: Either sign him or trade him.
The Pirates locking in a potential GENERATIONAL player. This is their face of franchise. $140 million is a ton for someone unproven and the fact the Pirates are giving this to him shows his potential.
Always a risky move to label someone a generational franchise savior before they’ve even accumulated 20 at bats in the bigs.
apparently you haven’t watched this kid playing at the major league level
This kid is hitting under .200 so far. Made some nice defensive plays, but nothing yet screams generational talent.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s small sample size and he’s 19. There’s every reason to believe he’ll be successful long term. But so far it’s mostly one very good year in the low minors and a ton of hype.
I want to stress that he’s 19 and a year ago, he was playing HS ball in Mississippi. He’d be in his freshman season at LSU had he decided to go to college. Freshmen don’t often hit well against SEC pitching and he’s not facing SEC pitching, he’s facing the best pitchers in the world. If the pirates had waited until he was 21 or 22, that time to extend him would’ve passed, just like it has with Skenes. Look at my Astros: Hunter brown wanted an extension two years ago before he broke out and became a top 10 pitcher in the AL. Now, it’s too late. That extension would’ve probably have been 6/70? An absolute bargain and a good deal even if he’s only decent. Konnor Griffin isn’t just going to be decent, we all think he’s going to be a dude. And pirate fans would’ve revolted if they could’ve extended him and didn’t. But let’s say Griffin doesn’t work out. Management can always say “well damn, would any of you fans NOT have done this?” The majority would be like “yeah I would’ve done the same.”
The fact that you lead your comment with his average after 5 games or so, pretty much discounts any opinion that you have after that. Hype?? Laughable comment.
This deal is just as risky for Griffin. Buy giving up 3 years of free agency when he would be 26/27 he is costing himself possibly hundreds of millions of dollars.
“mostly one very good year in the low minors”? Let’s look at this again. He actually played at 3 different levels last year (A, Hi-A & AA). He succeeded at all 3 levels and was among the youngest at each of them. I’m not saying that he’s going to be a Hall of Fame player but the kid has the skills & the mindset to succeed in the Majors this year.
@jaorb
Do you actually watch him play, or just look at box scores? There’s a reason Zips and Fangraphs project him to be a 3-4 WAR player this season as just an MLB average hitter. His defense and base running are already elite.
He’s got everything you want in a player. The one year of very good play in low minors and ton of hype is the very least reasons the Pirates invested in him. His maturity, his desire to excel, his understanding of the game, and his physical abilities are the key reasons the Pirates gave him more money at 19 years of age than any player in the history of the franchise.
@prospectnvstr
So you looked at it again and it’s still one year. Glad we got that straightened out.
Every player in the minors has a desire to excel. Please explain what you have seen that indicates his level of maturity? Keep it separate from “his understanding of the game”. I see a lot of posts repeating stuff that other have posted. A lot of word salad. The Pirates see a lot they like, know it will sell tickets (for now), or they wouldn’t have signed him. Being a Detroit fan, I’m hopeful on McGonigle but have no knowledge of his maturity, his desire to excel, or his understanding of the game. From what I have seen, he has a good eye at the plate and good bat control. So I won’t pretend to know more.
stymee
My theory for why they try pass off their conjectures as some sort of informed baseball analysis or talent evaluation is because they dont actually know what theyre talking about, wont admit they dont know, and desperately want to seem like they do. I saw someone here talk about Juan Sotos ego the other day as if they actually could psychologically analyze a guy from swinging a bat, having not the best english during media trained interviews, and signing a contract. Its laughable at best. Guys like Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith have done irreparable damage to sports commentary as they had to focus on the personal drama and storylines filled with pure assumptions to make up for the fact that they are not actually subject matter experts, and these comments are no different.
TheMan 3
Whos watched this kid play at the major league level? No one has really watched this kid play at the major league level as its only been 5 games and 20 plate appearances. This is also the first time ive seen someone point to a small sample size that doesnt even support their position lol its not like the .535 OPS at the major league level is proof of his potential is or anything.
another know it all
this site obviously attracts them
TheMan 3,
Huh, are you okay? Im not saying hes a bad player or is not going to be a great one. You said something silly and it was pointed out. Stop pouting like a child
Too late? He’s out with a shoulder injury. They could’ve lucked out.
.176 average
Please! 140M with double that coming when he’s 28….if he lives up to it and stays healthy.
He has generational potential.
Look at my Astros: Hunter brown wanted an extension two years ago before he broke out and became a top 10 pitcher in the AL. Now, it’s too late. That extension would’ve probably have been 6/70?
I agree we absolutely should’ve extended Brown, and I am still hating Scott Boras for stopping JP3 sign the 5/105.
And anything else, totally agree.
When your a 3-4 WAR player PROJECTED in your first season, yeah that’s saying something.
@TheMan….It’s common on the interwebs.
It will be interesting to see how these long term deals play out in in retrospect. Each of us varies in how we are motivated, but external and internal motivation is a simple break down
It’s an interesting dynamic among fans who mostly laud this deal. Some will work well for the team, a safer bet is that more will not.
It’s not hard to see that some people -even the rare set of humans that play in MLB-that early extensions may mute a person’s drive to do better and achieve more.
Not saying that’s the case about Griffin, but it’s evident with professional athletes, just as it’ is with people in general. We all need some degree of eustress.
I don’t pout, l just call it like it is
@astros71, you gotta cite the source, my guy. Lmao!!! As for Boras, he can only do what his clients tell him to. If Peña truly wanted to sign that 5/105, he would’ve. But he hired Boras TO get him that big contract after 2027. Look at Altuve and McCullers-both Boras guys. They both wanted to stay, they told Scott to get it done and he did.
@theman – how could he, he only has 20 an bats at the major league level so his comment is legit. If you’re referring to his play in the ‘minors’ that’s different, but how many players have performed well in the minors and became busts at the MLB level?
I heard someone say that Boras saw a business opportunity and told Pena he was going to get him a bigger paycheck.
Peña isn’t a dumb guy. He knows what stats he’s put up and what kind of check he could’ve gotten and still can get. But what people forget is that 5/105 was before last season. Before last season, Peña was just an average big league hitter who got hit in the 2022 playoffs. I think his OPS+ was around 98. Well, average is 100 so at that point, 5/105 would’ve been a good deal. Alas, it didn’t get done. Maybe we still extend him(doubtful) but now the question becomes: do we trade him like we did with Tucker? What complicates things further is the elephant in the room: are we even going to have baseball at all in 2027?
We can extend him. At least we have the money to. But Jim Crane is cheap and won’t want to improve this team if it means spending above the luxury tax threshold and still wants to compete. He says he’s not scared of the luxury tax threshold but I think he’s a hypocrite.
We’ll probably trade Pena cuz we won’t give a great player what he deserves when we clearly have that money. He also won’t get service time if there’s no baseball in 2027.
TheMan 3
No you dont, you pout like a literal child the moment someone informed you that 20 PAs is nothing to draw any conclusions off of. Cheer up buddy tomorrow is a new day
Look, I love the signing. Agree with all the positives being said EXCEPT the whole generational talent thing. I expect him to have a “mediocre” year this year (which as a 19 year old is still pretty impressive) and yet also go on to have a good enough career to make the contract he’s signing a bargain. Yet I’m still not buying that he’s “can’t miss”, because that doesn’t exist in baseball.
And yes, I have watched him play, and yes, I do get what others are seeing. It’s a worthwhile gamble. But it’s still very much a gamble.
Gave up more likely only 2 years. He probably wouldn’t have been up so soon if not for extension. Hard to contend for ROY if you aren’t called up until June. He would need to be great to make 70m in arbitration and get 35m a year in free agency. Now he doesn’t has to be and gets 140m. Seems like the smarter move to me. He can get his mega deal after this one. If he invest his $ he will make up those 2 free agent years by having his signing bonus and more than league minimum salary.
Blah blah blah
Still likely to be a decent contract even if he isn’t really generational but just a great, multiple all star level player.
kermit:
Its the “generational” label thats making everyone cringe. If he had led with “likely be a decent contract”, he’d have gotten 10 upvotes instead.
At a premium position. That does matter.
Throwing out labels on mlbtr chat boards is less risky than giving them $140M guaranteed lol.
He isn’t unproven. His speed defense arm strength power are all proven. Hitting baseball at mlb level is still a ? but his athletic ability to do so is proven.
It’s wild prospects are getting as much as Nico Hoerner. “Can’t miss” prospects whiff and airball every year
I think this deal will be seen in a similar vein to Acuna’s was for us. In that it will be seen as a huge heist and Griffin for his skill set will be vastly underpaid. Of course there is always risk with any contract, but I think every front office would make this deal if they would considering the type of tools that Konnor Griffin possesses.
And yet griffin isn’t in today’s lineup. Once again Kelly is pulling lineups out of the hat that Shelton left him.
And down 2 runs with a runner on first and third, against a lefty, Kelly keeps Lowe in to bat, despite only having one hit against a lefty this season, when he should have used Cook as a pinch hitter
Lowe hit a weak pop up to center field to end the threat
Kelly used Griffin to pinch hit for Horowitz, he could have used right handed hitting Cook to pinch hit for Lowe
Yeah. I noticed that. How about Cruz in the 7th. The Pirates just scored two. Runners on 1st and 2nd, one out
Batter before him is walked. Last 3 pitches not even near the plate. Being the student of the game he is, Cruz comes up and swings at the first pitch, chopping a weak ground ball
Elementary baseball 101 says to never help a struggling pitcher.
A generational talent that they will trade away in 5 years.
Yippie, now let’s get Skenes, Cruz, and Bubba done LOL.
I’m not sure it makes as much sense for pitchers in general given how quickly things can go south. But yes, absolutely for Skenes.
Yes, Skenes especially the guy gives up five runs a game
Skenes gave up 5 runs in the season opener which was a result of 2 misplays by Cruz but in his next two starts, he’s given up 2 runs and won both
Have you not noticed skenes last 2 starts? One bad game doesn’t ruin a career. Go back to trollville
Cruz lol no
I’m actually not sure about locking up Cruz or Bubba. Skenes would be fantastic obviously but I think there’s probably a less than 3 percent chance of that happening, and that’s being kind.
Skenes will be moved within 2 years for maximum return. They should get a ton, regrettably from the Dodgers, who, as of now, stocked farm system.
Skenes will be moved within 2 years for maximum return. They should get a ton, regrettably from the Dodgers, who have, as of now, stocked farm system.
Double posts with that handle… Nice!
Yeah, I think general fans see the highlights of Cruz and see the upside but locking him up long term would be a real stretch and a hope that he refines himself to being great in all aspects of the game
If he really does do that which he may have suddenly realized that he must do it if he wants to make the really big money.
That would not be with the Pirates however,since his control years are rapidly being diminished.
In his defense the Pirates have been bad enough during his whole time here that he may not have felt the need to really work hard to do so.
I still don’t know where he plays defensively long term. I know that’s not the most important if his bat plays, but this stretch now doesn’t really invalidate last year’s disappointing season. His power numbers have to come up a lot more for how much raw talent he has.
One gets the feeling he is resistant to moves. He initially didn’t want to come off of SS. Then he didn’t wish to go to RF. Ideally at his age, he’s likely either a DH or a 1st baseman but even there, some modicum of work would have to be put in.
It’s worth repeating, moving Cruz to another position after moving him to center field, a position he didn’t want to take, could damage his psyche and attitude
Leave him where he’s at and hope that he improves defensively
How old is Bubba I remember pulling his minor league cards in 2020
23
You dont sign minor league players before the guy who is already up and throwing cy young around his name.
Pirates should have taken care of skenes couple years ago.
I don’t think Skenes ever would have gone for being locked in in such a way. The young man understood being drafted by a smaller market team, knew his abilities and value, and knew the financial and competitive realities of MLB from the start
@WashedUp, not only was Skenes intelligent about all of that but he hadn’t witnessed the Pirates even attempting to spend money and look to the future since he was in Little League. Maybe (hopefully), if Nutting is even considering an extension for Skenes (not saying he is whatsoever) Skenes will see this Griffin extension as a commitment to the future and maybe/hopefully at least start negotiations towards something. Even if it only buys out one FA season.
Agreed. I think he’s bought in as much as you can expect for a star player on what has been a bad team. I stick by the notion that without him and to a lesser extent him actually speaking on it, the team would more or less be content with just treading water and hoping to luck into a good season or two. He’s given them a sense of urgency and while I always hold out hope he’ll be here for a bit longer than expected, it’s simply not realistic when you consider the teams who can offer so much more.
Nutting has to spend. Cord cutters. Has to have a product people want to buy since they don’t have to buy it anymore.
And if he wins he will make $. Commissioner office will pay for majority of his extra spending. Ticket sales and TV revenue will make him even more $. Will keep spending to get Commissioner office $ and attendance tv $. When team stinks payroll will drop again. Rebuild and won’t spend until he can get Commissioner tv attendance $ again. Unless the mythical salary cap comes.
Pitchers are the worst investment though. Extend all the KG you can. But since they don’t have KGs might roll dice on pitcher. Or just short term free agents to keep making that $.
maybe Skenes didn’t want a long term contract
At least, not in Pittsburgh.
I think he’s a very intelligent guy. I think he knew the realities. Add to this having a girlfriend who is an international star
I love my town, but in that sense, it’s not New York or LA
You might want to find a place to play Cruz where he won’t hurt the team before you offer that deal.
Oh happy day. I’m unfamiliar with this feeling related to Pirates baseball. Is this what hope feels like?
I guess I felt the same way when we extended Breggy.
What’s not hope is losing your ace, closer, and dropping a series to the Rockies. We should trade for Willi (is this how you spell it) Castro.
Add this to other solid moves the Pirates have recently made and you could make a case that their owner is at long last.. nutting up.
He always extends players and buys free agents when he should.
Great job by the Pirates! Cardinals need to do the same with JJ
Same years for JJ and I think maybe a slightly lower AAV could get it done.
The team needed this and the fans deserved this
I haven’t been this excited about a Pirates move since we traded Troy Stokes Jr.
Lifetime extension for BC.
Sorry but his failures the previous 6 long years will not be forgotten that easily.
Nice work, Bucs! The kid is exciting, hopefully he pans out.
Already pan out. Better than anyone thought.
Not really?
This is some proper gravy to put on the potatoes in the morning. Now, let’s finally pull the trigger and re-work Bryan Reynolds’ extension, give him 10 years at 200 million until he’s 38.
Eh…there are far bigger priorities than extending Reynolds again. Horwitz, Bubba, and Ashcraft come to mind off the big league roster. I would personally try to get another year out of Lowe just so they can see what exactly they have in Termarr Johnson (who could very well be extension worthy himself). Then you have Esmerlyn Valdez, Seth Hernandez, Edward Florentino, Jhostynxon Garcia who could all be extension worthy in the next two years. They’ve already paid Reynolds and he is an above average player, but they need to set their sites on the future right now. They need to lock down younger players before the inevitable happens and Skenes is traded. That way, there is at least a locked up solid core and good idea of where their payroll is going to sit for future years when trying to maximize the best possible trade return for hopefully a healthy and still best pitcher in baseball, in Skenes.
Well stated, although the jury is still out on Horwitz. You mention a number of kids coming up through the farm whom I’m betting Pirates brass are looking at as the true future without, unfortunately Skenes. Seth in particular already looks like another Skenes-type of pitcher
But by the time all of these kids arrive, I’m not sure Reynolds will be here or really, would be a necessary part of the mix
Couldn’t agree more WashedUp. I really like Reynolds. Always have. And I like Horwitz too and I feel he can provide the same value as Reynolds has. I feel like they are pretty comparable really. Not tons of power, but have a better than average hit tool.
Reynolds Bednar should have been traded years ago. His contract isn’t large enough to harm them but wasted opportunity. Not that they would have developed the trade return but that was the best option.
You must be kidding. Why would they want to extend Reynolds?
They wouldn’t.His fielding is below average and his hitting does not nearly match his best years.
He is still a good player,and probably worth keeping.
But not extending.
It’s early of course, but he doesn’t resemble the hitter he was just a couple seasons or so ago. And he still takes poor paths to fly balls in left and doesn’t have the greatest of arms.
I like Reynolds but again, I’d wonder how he plays into their plans if the guys on the farm really do prove to be MLB level talents
There was no way they were gonna be able to do this had they waited. If he booms like we all think he will, this is a steal. Honestly, it’s a win for both sides. He can still hit free agency before he’s 30 and command what could be by then a 700/800 million dollar contract if he’s good.
So Bob Nutting had cash the whole time
The Nuttings are worth billions. They are cheap, however.
The way MLB words these deals seems incongruent with what’s actually occurring. It’s not really a 9-year extension, imho. For six years he’s under team control anyway….. more of a 9-year deal with a 3-year extension built in.
And clearly an overpay for the first three or four years.
Griffin has the tools and seems to have the head but they will not find out whether this is a good deal for another two years.
I think that when he gets his feet on the ground you are looking at a 20 home run player hitting 260 with 70 rbis and 30 steals and a 750 OPS
The trick is to get better from that after the pitchers figure out where the weak spots are.
And the Pirates hitting coaches have been notorious for not helping the hitters overcome their weaknesses
I’m hoping for more of a prime Nomar Garciaparra out of Griffin. Not only because I’m a huge Pirate fan but Nomar is and always will be my favorite player. I’m not asking too much out of the kid am I?
So he’s dansby Swanson? Huge overpay for his cost controlled season + 3 FA
This team leads the majors in opposite field hits. Last year they were a pull hitting team
There’s improvement in the offense that I haven’t seen in years
We all know what it is. Its 9 years of guaranteed money instead of 6 one-year deals. Notice how the vast majority of these extensions are position players? No team is dishing out 8 and 9yr deals to pitchers with zero service time, where careers can derail quickly due to injuries, ineffectiveness, etc
It’s far more than that. On paper, you’re right. Arbitration seasons are set and 3 FA years. Sure. But this isn’t just about what’s written on paper. It’s a commitment to the player and to the future of the organization as a whole. It’s a sign that the team is looking towards the future. It also avoids all of the back and forth during the arbitration years that almost always makes small market franchises look bad and cheap to the fans.
How soon before the trade rumors start? Will he make it through 6 years or will it start the moment he stumbles?
Label of nine year extension seems appropriate to me. Say he’s hitting a theoretical .176 lifetime whens he becomes arb eligible. Can always cut bait with a non-tender.
But, when he’s arb eligible he’s already into the 9 year contract. It goes from right now (pre-arb) through 2034. It’s guaranteed money, so they can’t cut him without losing most of that money.
Right, I meant he could be cut with no compensation if he wasn’t signed long term. That’s why “9 year extension” sounds appropriate to me.
Oh, my fault, I misunderstood you. I just think of “extension” as a term applicable to those who would otherwise be in free agency.
But, yeah, your logic makes sense to me.
How much does JJ get offered by StL?
After the Emerson and Griffin extensions, I think Wetherholt can get around $110-$120 million.
The smaller-market teams have persistently complained about how limited resources keep them from retaining home-grown talent. The movement towards early extensions by some of them is a good sign, particularly for competitiveness and fan-satisfaction reasons. Some of these deals won’t work out, but that’s true with many of the FA deals as well, and at a much lower price point. What we don’t know yet is whether these teams will see themselves as creating value that can be subsequently traded as the extended players move into their later twenties.
rrrrrrrrrrrrrraise it!!!
Great for the Pirates. Not so-great for Griffin. If he hits free agency at 26/27 and is close to as good as they think he is – he would be looking at a free agent deal of about 500 million.
And to tie himself for a decade to a franchise that has shown zero interest in truly trying to win makes no sense.
Griffin has locked up immense wealth that no 19 year old has ever seen.
The Pirates have to make the guarantee based on what?
What guarantee does Griffin have to make other than to play a kids game?
What if he is just good or gets hurt? 70 million for 2 years is good insurance. I’m sure if he becomes the best player in baseball 29 years old isn’t gonna be a huge turnoff.
How many hundreds of millions does one really need? Seems like Griffin is super-happy to be pocketing $140M guaranteed now, and i’m happy for him also
no interest in trying to win?
Increased payroll to a franchise record of $100 million, traded for offensive minded players, promoted the franchise rookie pitchers to the majors in Ashcraft and Chandler
Signed Gregory Soto to a free agent contract
No interest in improvement
You must be high
Lonnie is right if you look at the recent history of this franchise. Until this past offseason it has been Baseball Siberia. In that regard, why would Skenes ever have considered a long term contract.
Griffin represents the future though. I’m sure he’s been told this repeatedly.
Temporary insanity? Gotta admit this is not the norm, THE MAN3.
it might not be the norm in years past but it’s a fact this year that they are paying more to win games
Damm he gonna be a Pirate til he’s 90. Collecting paystubs like Bobby Bo
9yrs is a long time to be watching October baseball on TV. Poor kid.
Pirates fans always look forward to your troll posts Slider.
Once a troll always a troll
Only 2 more years than the 7 if he didn’t sign. Good choice to take the $.
He is making like $35 M for the two free agent years as you say which is a pretty good gig.
If he is a prime player he will be ready for another very big contract when this one runs out.
This surprises me that Nutting would go for it.
I would have waited to find out if he is the real thing this year even though his personal pluses seem to say that he will be.
But does his defense get rave reviews?
I don’t care. Still amusing to me.
Absolutley beautiful.
LoL. Absolutely pathetic. How or why does he rank higher than Skenes. Is this guy trying to set a precedent? I guess he never cares about winning either.
He’s not a pitcher, so has a lower chance of devastating injury.
Who says he ranks higher than Skenes? Because he got a contract done first? Does Cooper Pratt now rank higher than Brice Turang or William Contreras because the Brewers extended him first? With the way the Pirates are spending, they may eventually get a contract done with Skenes. And who’s to say he doesn’t care about winning? Have you considered he signed a long-term deal so he can help the Piraets win this year and in the future?
75M more than Pratt, that is a good deal?
140M on a rookie for what amounts to an outlier season in A/A+
The Pirates have a reputation for being frugal but they overpaid here, the Pratt deal was a good contract for the player.
Brewers paid 4M in ARB1 and good raises in ARB2 (8M) and ARB3 (15M) for a sensible 4yr/50M dollar deal on their player.
Pirates paid 10M in ARB1, 20M in ARB2 and 30M in ARB3 for a 3yr/75M dollar deal on their player. They paid max value for a potential 50M savings if you use Bichette’s outlier deal as a comp and that is only realized if the player plays at a high level for six seasons.
Ummm…what? An outlier season in A/A+? He’s played one season. There was no baseline for that to be considered an outlier. Is Cooper Pratt the #1 prospect in baseball? No…not even top 50. Is Cooper Pratt being compared to Mike Trout and Bryce Harper? No…that’s laughable. Is Cooper Pratt considered a 5 tool player? Again…no. to even try to compare the two is just wrong.
Who’s Cooper Pratt?
You’re a major league scout?
Didn’t think so, just another narcissist know it all who doesn’t know squat
So this is what the Pirates are going to do with all that free money they’ve been getting for years
– way overpay! Estimate first 6 years of Team control and arbitration 35-40 million. Now average out the other three years and the roughly 90 million **** way overpay
Unless they gave him a full no trade clause, that last $90MM will likely be on another teams payroll, when they move him during the next rebuild. Windows for small markets are currently 6 year maxes.
Mostlikly- it’s a Pittsburgh thing
Brewers haven’t had a losing season since 2016
There are three primary reasons top shelf players choose large markets to play in when given the opportunity:
1. Money (includes endorsements)
2. Compete for Championships
3. Legacy
The reason I think there’s a chance Pirates may be able to sign Skenes to an extension is the Pirates can check boxes 2 and 3. They have the core talent either in place or in the minors which should allow them to compete for championships. The Pirates are a storied franchise with a rich history of iconic players wearing the black and gold.
If Nutting is willing to take the risk in spending that much money on a Pitcher, Skenes may be willing to stay in Pittsburgh for a few years longer than expected.
You called the Griffin signing.
I like your reasoning here and would hope there is some truth where Skenes is concerned. I’d hope additionally that he sees a kid like Griffin and what’s coming through the farm and see a team that really can compete for a number of years
I still think all of the spending Nutting did this offseason and now with Griffin does attempt to appeal to Skenes’ comment at the end of the season about wanting to play for a contender in Pittsburgh. I really do believe this kicked Nutting in the pants
But it all comes down to money. How could Nutting compete with major market owners. How could being based in Pittsburgh compare with being based in NY or LA, either for Skenes or his girlfriend?
Hard to see him staying here long term. I’ll just enjoy watching him here for however long
Nutting is talking about his commitment to the city and to fans about being serious to building a contender here
Hope springs eternal
I doubt the Agent and Team would agree on numbers but if Paul likes the city and the team direction, It wouldn’t surprise me if he would at least consider giving a marginal discount
I doubt it would happen this year.
Probably the best reason for him to stay is style. Black and Gold are the best team colors in the league.. but you know i’m a bit bias 🙂
I’d love to know what Livvy thinks of Pittsburgh. Because anyone who doesn’t think she has a say in all of this is fooling himself. She’s no ordinary wife
Doesn’t matter what Skenes thinks of city. Doesn’t matter what other teams can pay him. That’s 4 years down the road. Only question is does Skenes want paid now or hope nothing goes drastically wrong in the next 4 years. And if he cares about winning and legacy Pittsburgh might be the best place for him. Pitching competition for legacy is nothing here and NY LA he is just another hired gun mercenary.
Sure it matters when your wife/GF is an international star. It mattered in Russ Wilson’s brief stint with the Steelers, and it matters here. That is, unless Skenes is fine with an 8 month relationship by proxy. At their ages, that’s doubtful
I had to laugh that a couple national media types hailed the Griffin signing as great, as long as they can attach Skenes to it to build a contending team.
Yeah. Like anyone else, I hope so
I hope the signing was partially meant to appease Skenes. But there’s a reality here that tells me legacy has nothing to do with it.
Yeah for sure it matters, if it is more than money is the question. Paul will likely set records for salary if he stays reasonably healthy a team friendly discount probably would still be out of reach.
Good for the Pirates! Maybe Pittsburgh is ready to compete for a few years. I doubt they will lock up Skenes though
Ashcraft Bubba for 6 years. KG SH for 9. Ready to compete for almost a decade at least. Loaded farm system. Another high draft pick. The trade returns or draft picks from all their current players.
You were right about Seth. Sure hope he stays healthy
Would be nice now to get some fans in the stands now, “crowds “ have been pathetic.
almost 39k in their home opener, 28k for Sunday’s game, 11000 on Monday where the temperature was in the 40’s at game time and 9k in last night’s game where the temperature was again in the 40’s
When school is over and the weather improves, they will draw fans
I love it when a team locks up a guy that’s batting .176
do you know what happened to the real Bob Moose?
Article should mention that, because they waited until after he was called up to do this, they are fully eligible for a PPI pick if he wins ROY or is a MVP finalist in 2026, ’27 or ’28.
Yeah Pirates are getting that pick. Bubba Chandler is also PPI eligible I believe.
Sal Stewart might have something to say about that.
Stewart also, in the NL who else? McLean is PPI elgible. AL has Wetherholt, Basallo, DeLauter. And some more I’m forgetting.
There can only be one ROY. Everyone else would have to be a MVP or Cy Young finalist in 2026, ’27 or ’28 (and that’s assuming no lockout).
If there’s no 2027 then they don’t earn service time and therefore don’t get closer to reaching arbitration. Candidates for PPI, obviously not everyone. And the one I was forgetting in the AL was McGonigle.
6 years ago they were saying Betts would be a free agent if the 2020 season was canceled outright and that the Dodgers might have just given up Verdugo, Wong and Downs and taken David Price for nothing.
IF Griffin is worth 140M, Skeens(with his resume) is worth 9/270++
These extensions of control are interesting. The previous practice of trading at the end of arbitration or before were not working, so it appears some teams are pivoting to extensions to lock up talent at possible discounts to market value if the early career projections hold true. This appears to be a different method of controlling salary while extending windows of control.
Obviously not all of these extensions will work, but some will be very good deals. An example of a good deal might be Ronald Acuna, Jr. We will see if Konnor Griffin is a good deal, a bad deal, or a fair deal. It does make one wonder what data and projection teams are using to be comfortable with extending players with essentially no major league track records.
How exactly was the previous practice “not working?”
How often did the Pirates make it to the playoffs? How much revenue did the Pirates generate relative to other teams with similar market sizes? Would the Pirates ever stop being revenue share recipients?
Cincinnati, Milwaukee, and San Diego are in smaller media markets than Pittsburgh and all have been to playoffs recently. If making the playoffs is analogous to winning and drawing fans, the Pirates have not been as successful as those smaller market teams.
If the owner making a buck as annual income is paramount, the Pirates are probably a huge winner.
Lots of teams that choose to manipulate service time, play out the string on arb years and then trade the player a year or two before he is eligible for FA are successful. Like the Guardians. The Pirates we can chalk up to bad drafting in the latter part of the Huntington years and then proceeding to focus primarily on drafting high schoolers (more upside but less proximity) under Cherington.
Love and dislike it.
Dislike is because there a large risk given the low sample at the proball level especially at the higher levels…
Love it because it is a very high reward at a low cost if it pans out. Under 20mil AVV for someone that has the talent to be a MVP candidate most of his career.. If it where me, if i’m doing this I may have considered trying to go 15-20 years 😀
I can’t wait to see this new trend of signing unproven players to ridiculous contracts blow up in the fans faces. They want your butts in seats and tvs tuned in. It really doesn’t matter if the player or team performs.
I like it when cynicism is used to mask inanity, like running around carrying a bush to hide in front of in the middle of the city.
If “it really doesn’t matter if the player or team performs” how can “signing players to ridiculous contracts blow up”?
First one was Jonathan Singleton in Houston but that wasn’t exactly a “ridiculous” contract, even for the time. Singleton did end up busting.
A lot of money obviously on unproven talent, but he’s the right type of talent to bet on and, unlike some other extensions, this one covers three years of free agency. Sensible move imo.
He means Skenes, the guy who started the last 2 all-star games.
Uh, is it too early to say I was wrong about Cruz?
No.You were only basing your opinion on the results that you saw.
He does have significant physical attributes just like Griffin.
He does seem to be taking it more seriously.
Let’s wait until the all star break to see if he has changed his ways.