The Nationals were the winners of the Gio Gonzalez sweepstakes, acquiring the left-hander from the A's today for a package of four well-regarded prospects: A.J. Cole, Tom Milone, Derek Norris and Brad Peacock. Here's a look at some of the reaction and analysis of this blockbuster trade…
- The Nats didn't want to give up both Peacock and Milone but eventually acquiesced, reports Amanda Comak of the Washington Times. Comak points out that the Nats have found themselves with a left-handed starter who is younger and less expensive than their first target this offseason, Mark Buehrle.
- Washington's recent strong drafts gave the team enough prospect depth to make this deal possible, notes Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com. The Nationals "improved their rotation to the point where they may be a contender," Heyman writes.
- "I don’t know how Oakland could have done better,” a scout tells Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle. “They got the right set of names….Quality and depth.”
- A rival evaluator tells ESPN's Buster Olney (via Twitter) that Peacock reminds him of former Twins starter Brad Radke. "I'm not sure that in two years, Peacock will [be] better than Gio," the evaluator said.
- The A's have made two "brilliant hauls" in their trades of Gonzalez and Trevor Cahill, opines MLB.com's Tom Singer (Twitter link). The A's received Jarrod Parker, Collin Cowgill and Ryan Cook from the Diamondbacks in exchange for Cahill and Craig Breslow two weeks ago.
- ESPN's Keith Law (Insider subscription required) is not overly impressed with Gonzalez, believing his success to have been at least in part due to the pitcher-friendly Oakland ballpark and the Athletics' defense. It seems as if Law considers the trade a win for the A's, calling their return haul "a substantial reward" and praising Cole as the new top prospect in Oakland's system.
I somewhat agree with Law on this one. Put him and his walks in another ballpark that isn’t as pitcher friendly, and I think he won’t be nearly as good as he was. Only time will tell though, and I do like the stuff he has.
The saving grace for Gio may be moving to the NL. I think a move to another team in the AL would have been terrible for him, but moving to the Nats (who still have a somewhat pitcher friendly park, and play against less potent offenses) and the NL may help him keep up relatively solid numbers.
I agree and would love to see him excel, but another ballpark won’t cut down on that walk rate. Unless he can connect with the Nat’s pitching coach and make adjustments.
No, you’re right, the walk rate would be an issue no matter where he went.
That has to be the hope in Washington for Rizzo. And his pitching coach is none other than ex Athletics ace Steve McCatty. And Davey Johnson will certainly be involved as well.
I’m not familiar with him as a coach. Is he a good pitching coach?
Nondescript but not bad. He really got the most out of Jordan Zimmerman and has overseen a pitching staff that has seen their ERAs drop rapidly, but there has also be a significant influx of talent recently, so that might have something to do with it as well…
Its really incredible to me how low MLBTR commentators rate Gio. He has excellent stuff and is hardly the first SP with nasty stuff who had control problems early on. Its just bizarre to me how lowly he’s rated by certain people just because of the walks, and the thought process that he will never ever improve his game.
Gio in Boston would NOT have been “a disaster” like so many predicted, his youth and experience can only lead me to believe that he spends all his time figuring how to improve. His last 2 months in Oakland he had a walk rate of about 3.2/9, he definitely calmed it down. I guess I’m more open minded about players who are under 30 than others. Players have “figured things out” at various times in their career many times, too many times to discount entirely like so many MLBTR posters refuse to take into account.
That’s a pretty small sample size. You really can’t judge whether or not he lowered his walk rate for good by two months. I didn’t say he can’t get better. What I’m saying is he will only get worse moving to a less pitcher friendly ballpark until he controls his walks better.
Well it was pretty well reported early on in 2011 that he had problems with walks, and then he worked on it with the coaching staff, and then got results. Its very difficult pill for the overanalyzing statheads to swallow, but in Gio’s case, his career numbers aren’t really going to be a good indicator of his results going forward.
My point is Randy Johnson’s walk rate at age 28 was 6.2, and then at 29 he figured it out and dropped it back to a decent number, he’s obviously an extreme case, but Gio has already shown after putting in effort to figure it out too, and long before he’s 28.
No way can you compare Gio to the Big Unit. Gio’s stuff (pitching-wise) is no where near what Randy Johnson had going for him. And the over-analyzing stat-heads are right when they say SSS.
don’t get so offended he isnt comparing them, just making a point. And Gio’s stuff aint sliced meat either
no its not, but its not randy johnson’s either
2 months isn’t a sufficient sample size to dismiss 4 years + worth of sample no matter what qualifier you put with it.
I’m not comparing them as wholes, but look how Kershaw’s BB/9 rate dipped over the last couple years. He went from wild, to average control, to very, very good control in the span of a couple years. It can be done.
Exactly.
kershaw’s a lot younger. it makes more sense for a pitcher to show improvement from his 21 year old season, to his 22 year old season than going from 25 to 26 .
He could suddenly figure it out at 27yo, but expecting him to is a very dangerous proposition. Predicting anything based off of a 2 month sample (in which is BB rate still wasn’t great) isn’t a smart thing to do either.
It’s also not just because of the walks. Sure they are part of it (maybe a big part of it), but the fact that his success coincided with his having ERAs half a run to a run lower than his peripheral stats, below average HR rates, and below average BABIPs (league average as well as his own career average) despite getting the same GB-LD-FB numbers as he always has, all pointed to regression before his move to a less pitcher friendly park.
Very well said.
I hoped Jonathan Sanchez would figure it out, but he’s now 29….
and Gio is 26 is 2012 and absolutely not even close to being a comp for Sanchez, despite the naysayers on here who refuse to take age into consideration when comping.
Besides a tiny two months, he has done nothing to show he will gain control of his pitches. That’s that. You can’t argue with that.
Looking at Fangraphs… his walk rate has improved every year since his MLB callup in 2008.
2008 6.62 BB/9
2009 5.11 BB/9
2010 4.13 BB/9
2011 4.05 BB/9
He is ONLY 26… why is it crazy to think his walk rate will continue to improve? I fully expect him to continue to improve…
… I can see his walk rate ‘settling’ around 3.5 BB/9 ultimately.
and mid 3’s is league average.
i thought the a’s wanted outfielders… they got 3 pitchers and a catcher?
not only want, but need, i personally would’ve liked to have seen hood included over milone, i like hood’s ceiling.
however, i think this haul is better than if they had included hood rather than milone. Milone’s already been tested in the majors, and hood has one really solid year in the minors at high-a
I look at Milone’s stats and my mouth keeps watering. As a Rangers fan, I can only hope he doesn’t pan out, haha. Good haul A’s. Glad to see them taking the steps to compete sometime in the years ahead.
He throws 87 MPH. The package would have been better with Hood over Milone. Milone 5th starter at best.
when you have his accuracy, the defense as good as the a’s, and a ballpark as big as the a’s, velocity ends up not being a big factor
so what? and he has elite control, with 2 plus breaking pitches. put him in oakland’s pitcher friendly park and he’ll continue to do well
Absolutely agreed, he is a control freak…who cares about his stuff, he just knows how to get outs. He could end up a front line pitcher for a few years.
Ok I was writing Hood over Milone because thats what every A’s fan was saying they wanted outfielders.
In trades, take BPA. The A’s just traded a bunch of their pitchers.
You seem bitter about something. You shouldn’t be. The Nat’s are on the cusp of contending, with some of the best prospects (not just one but multiple) in baseball. I would be happy to be a Nat’s fan coming into next season.
I am happy about the Nats but I think the As should have added an outfielder, Hood was perfect for them. That’s what a’s fans say they needed.
i agree, and i agree that a package with hood would’ve been better than the one we got with milone
however, that would’ve been more of a risk, especially with hood only having one good year in the minors under his belt. with milone we got a (for the most part) proven pitcher that could be dealt later for a player like hood
Good point. You guys did well, I was just going by As fans on mlb. com and they wanted offense. For me I liked the package, we have Ramos so he kinda blocked Norris and we have pretty good pitching depth.
I’m sure they will get plenty of OFers for Andrew Bailey, Brett Anderson and Ross/Braden/McCarthy etc.
So does Mark Buehrle.
Velocity isn’t everything; sometimes a guy with ++ command/control can be successful with below average velocity.
Not in any way trying to say that Milone will be Cliff Lee, but Lee gets by on a 90mph fastball (average) with ++ command; Milone was only 2mph slower (87.8mph average in a very small SSS) this year, and also has very good command.
being nitpicky, i think you meant 87.8
uh, yeah… He definitely wasn’t throwing 98mph… thanks, fixed it.
As a Nats fan, I can tell you that this was an absolute coup for the As. Cole AND Peacock alone would’ve been worth it IMO but throw in Norris and Tommy and it’s just not even close. I really hope Rizzo didn’t just pull a Minaya-esque trade here and Gio pans out.
In all likelihood they don’t need anything specific at this point. Once they get closer to contending they can trade some of their surplus of pitching for outfielders if they need to.
Exactly. They could even sign McCarthy and Braden long term and trade one of these recently acquired guys for a young impact bat, like how the Rangers got Hamilton for Volquez.
Beane really should NOT sign McCarthy and Braden to long term deals. Injury prone pitchers are best dealt with year to year. McCarthy’s almost definitely trade bait at the deadline to a contender (when he’ll fetch more than if he were traded now).
i dunno, i say trade McCarthy while he’s healthy, there’s absolutely no guarantee he’ll be healthy at the deadline. Now is probably the safest time to trade him
True. Very true.
In which case, at least wait until he’s the best option available (AKA Kuroda’s off the market)
Just thinking outside the box here… I certainly agree that McCarthy could make nice trade bait this summer if he stays healthy. But a long-term deal (and by “long-term,” I mean around 3 years) might actually make sense if he was willing to sign for a low base salary, and incentives that will reward him very nicely if he can equal, outdo, or at least come close to his 2011 performance.
Agreed, Milone slots right into the rotation, replacing Gio. Hood is whatever, he might be good he might flame out like so many. Cole & Peacock were rated higher anyway. Cant hate on it.
Unlike guys like Lannan and Gonzalez Milone throws strikes. He doesn’t walk hitters. Soft-tosser doesn’t exceed 89mph FB. He is Mark Buehrle and maybe the better pitcher. That’s what Oakland got.
Peacock should also slide right into the major league rotation along with your true ace Brandon McCarthy plus Moscoso. Milone replaces Gonzalez and Peacock replaces the less than effective Cahill. What’s not to like Oakland won on this deal.
I hope by true ace you mean best pitcher on the team (which is still debatable with Brett Anderson, if he can stay healthy for once) and not an actual ace. Brandon is far from that.
like i’ve said, hood has a higher ceiling than milone, but milone being mostly proven, has a higher floor than hood, so it’s kind of a wash between the two
i thought so too
you go with the best players offered, not what you need.
the thing is, milone’s floor is higher than hood’s, but hood’s ceiling is higher than milone
So its nbd that they got Milone and not Hood.
BTW totally expecting more trades from Beane. Bailey is already an elite reliever but add Outman, Ross or Moscoso to the mix, or heaven forbid, McCarthy, Beane can add even more prospects, and they might even be position players.
plus the a’s definitely need to get a good haul in this year’s draft, with five picks in the first two rounds
I thought the A’s would go after some offense. So glad they didnt ask for Espinosa, Rendon, Ramos, Storen, Hood or Goodwin.
Rendon can’t be traded yet. Ramos wouldn’t be traded. Storen is over-valued because of save stats.
Dude, you can’t ask for Rendon or Goodwin. They were just drafted. Rizzo stated clearly that he wasn’t trading any major leaguer (negating Sept. callups) so Storen is out. They discussed Hood but being the smart man that he is Billy Bean asked for the best prospect pitchers and got them. Plus the top catcher in the system.
Everyone understands that players can’t be traded this soon after drafting. Been said so many times by now.
Yeah and Law loves the trade for Reds getting Latos, but I guess San Diego isnt a pitcher’s ballpark.
Latos pitches better on the road than Gio does.
2011
Gio Home:
2.70 ERA
1.20 WHIP
Gio Away
3.62 ERA
1.42 WHIP
Latos’s numbers are very similar home/away, his basic stats. I think the Advanced Stats show a greater separation between the home/road splits, which is Law’s beef.
In Latos’s breakout year in 2010, his ERA at home was 2.59 and 3.14 on the road. He’s also 24. The numbers overall were pretty average this year: (3.24 ERA at home 3.62 ERA away).
Latos doesnt walk 90+ batters either
He might walk a lot, but he does get to 6 or 7 innings most of the time. That’s more than you can say about most of the Rotation for the O’s in 2011
Latos has a 3.47 ERA, Gio 3.12.
And that division doesnt hit to well either. NL West.
The AL West was pretty bad though last year. The only good team offensively was Texas.
In the NL West last year you had Colorado and Arizona. It’s essentially a wash though.
Matt Latos –
FIP – 3.16
xFIP – 3.52
Gio Gonzalez –
FIP – 3.64
xFIP – 3.73
Those are both very good though.
They are, but you can’t say Gio is better than Latos. I know you didn’t say that but the person I was responding to did. Not only is Latos younger, he’s been better than Gio with good control.
Yeah no argument here, Latos is younger and has had more success. But both are so young their careers could go in any direction.
WTF is FIP? Who cares. How good did he actually do? ERA
FIP shows what they’re more likely to do or at least its supposed to. I’m not big on it personally.
What they’ve done though?
Latos Career 3.37 ERA
Gio Gonzalez 3.93 ERA Career
His WHIP’s higher, their K/9 is almost identical, H/9 almost identical, etc. Gio’s BB/9 is worrisome.
era has a lot to do with defense.
ERA is the pitcher+ defense’s ability to keep runs from scoring
I find it interesting that people who like FIP say that it shows how a pitcher does without defense.
That is 100% untrue. Innings Pitch is a stat used in FIP. Defensive outs adds to innings pitched, so therefore defense is still factored in FIP.
2011
Mat Latos WHIP 1.18
Gio Gonzalez WHIP 1.32
Mat Latos K/9 8.6
Gio Gonzalez k/9 8.8
Latos BB/9 2.9
Gonzalez BB/9 4.1
Latos H/9 7.8
Gonzalez H/9 7.8
Opponents Batting Average
Latos .233
Gonzalez .230
… and like I said, Latos is 24.
______________________________
Latos Career ERA 3.37
Gio Career ERA 3.93
Matt Latos is a better pitcher with good control and is also two years younger. While it’s true he might not have the same stats as he did in Petco, there’s less worry.
I would say Parker is better than Cole
sonny gray too, but still, all three have really high upsides
what do you guys think was a better haul A’s with Gio or padres with latos
Padres definitely.
IMO, it’s hard to tell. A’s got great pitching prospect, Padre’s great hitting prospects. As of now though, we have seen a small sample of what Alonso can do, and I like him, so I’d have to go with the Padre’s. Though that can change very easily.
for right now? the padres
for the future? depends on cole/peacock vs. alonso/grandal panning out
I think I’ll wait to see who SD gets for Alonso before saying who got the best deal. Alonso has no future in SD.
They’ll probably keep him and trade Rizzo
I wouldn’t worry about anything Keith Law says. The guy is full of baloney. Subscription required for his stuff? I don’t think so.
I actually consider Law to be one of the good journalists of advanced baseball analysis. Not the top, but better than most definitely.
Subscription required for his stuff? More like Prescription for Extra Strength Ex Lax. Law is full of Crap or was =P!
Why the vitriol?
Mommy, look! I’m trolling, I’m trolling!
but he’s usually right
Idk, I’ve read in several places that he once said Gio would be a #5 starter/reliever at best.
Link?
Sorry, I’m not going searching for that again. Take it for what it is.
I read that someone said that Law said…
And even if he did say that, no one get them all right. And really, who wouldn’t have said that based on early Gio Gonzalez.
No need for the sarcasm. Im just saying what i read. And I’m saying that Law ISNT perfect, thank you for agreeing with me on..
Early Gio was that bad. He had MAJOR problems with walks in the minors and didn’t really put it together until 2010.
I think Gio had made significant strides in improving his walk rate and looks primed for a big time breakout season in 2012, it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if he had a 5 WAR season next year.
That said, the fact that the A’s got 3 very strong SP prospects and a really interesting C prospect who all have high ceilings, along with 3 out of WSN’s top 10 prospects, as an A’s fan I’m reasonably happy with this deal. Prospects have a way of -not- panning out (see Meyer, Dan) so there’s always risk involved so its not a win for them right away. Milone looks like he will slot right into the rotation immediately, with the higher ceiling Gray, Cole & Peacock at Sacramento until the trade deadline when the A’s inevitably move any one of the current crop of McCarthy, Braden, Anderson, Ross, Outman or Moscoso. Can’t wait to see what Beane gets for Bailey, Fuentes & Balfour, hope Beane gets it done before the season starts. Oakland has a pretty decent farm now, don’t they?
hopefully a solid thirdbase prospect we need some offensive prospects it all been pitching so far
Oakland needs a better ballpark more than it needs offense.
That might actually be an understatement.
In late August me and my friends went to San Francisco for several nights. We had tix to a Giants game but also decided to go to an A’s game.
If I had to compare AT&T to O.co
O.co = Shea Stadium
AT&T Park = Citi Field
You guys should try and get Middlebrooks for Bailey from the Red Sox.
They aren’t going to get the Red Sox top prospect for a reliever.
Bailey is a lights out borderline elite closer, not just a reliever.
But if Beane gets Middlebrooks then he really did a spectacular job this offseason in rebuilding.
that would be awesome if we got middlebrooks
Cards have 2 promising 3rd basemen. First rounder Cox was considered the best college bat in 2010 draft. They also have M. Carpenter who has averaged a .400 obp at every level. With the Beltran signing Jay may be available. Not much power but he has hit around .300 with an obp of @.350 plus he is cost controlled being several years away from arb.
Dotel got McDonald and Lambo. Anything is possible when it comes to relievers.
It’s a shame the A’s don’t have better backup catchers right now. If they could afford to part with Suzuki, I bet the Red Sox would give up Middlebrooks, Reddick, and then some for a Suzuki/Bailey package.
Even coming off a down year, you’d have to think they’re still pretty high on him, considering how much interest they’ve always had in him.
I think Donaldson could play everyday if they let him and would be about a 2 WAR catcher.
Donaldson’s bat has some potential. But I don’t think they’d trust him enough behind the plate to handle such a young pitching staff the way Suzuki can.
And aren’t they still considering trying to convert him into a 3B? He played there quite a bit in Sacramento last year, and I recently read that he’s been playing some 3B in the Dominican Winter League, and has looked pretty solid.
Between Donaldson and Landon Powell, Suzuki should be definite trade bait.
It’s his down 2011 why he isn’t being traded. Once he puts together a strong stretch, I’m willing to bet he’s traded.
Nah. The only way I can see them trading Kurt within the next 18 months is if they were offered a trade package that’s too good to be true. I think he’s too valuable to them right now, given how many rookie pitchers will be joining the A’s over the next couple years. And I don’t think Powell, Recker or Donaldson would be able to handle them half as well as Kurt can. I truly believe he’s one of the best catchers in the entire league when it comes to helping young pitchers mature. And I’m pretty sure the A’s are of the same opinion.
i would love that haha i say we do balfour and bailey for middlebrooks that would strengthen the sox’s pen
Keith Law is an idiot, the A’s defense was terrible last year. Gio will do well in Washington.
Still you have to give the Nats credit for drafting, 41st round, 10th round, and two 4th round picks for Gio.
Very good point. Nat’s seem to have an excellent (could be the best) front office for drafting.
Yeah. I think Rizzo overpaid for Gonzalez but I think he had the luxury of doing so because he’s been active in the draft and not just because he got a pair of first picks.
Gonzalez will be a great addition to that rotation. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them contending for the wild card this year. Maybe even a serious contender for the WS within a few years.
yeah, meyer, solis, and ray now take over as the national’s top prospects, definitely not a hit their minor league system
And Purke.
i just can’t get over losing Cole. Really hurts. 19 years old!!!! give him four years to improve and holy crap!!
Hopefully he actually plays in oakland for a while when he gets there.
Be harder this year with the draft cap. The Nats went way over slot to get what they wanted in the last two drafts. Its why the rules were changed according to many in the know. Still think they just may pay the luxury tax associated with over drawing the cap amount. Their payroll is currently low enough.
Rays have a better drafting corps. But the Nats are pretty darn good.
Rays too, good point.
That’s not really a legit point, Cole was a holdout for money and Peacock wasn’t expected to sign.
The fact remains they were still signed and drafted where they are. The Nationals office did a great job of taking the risk and getting it done. Don’t really see what you’re trying to say.
I’m saying that Cole wanted a ton of cash and that scared off every team and he fell off the board when he actually was a 1st round talent. Any team could have had him but the Nats paid him. He’s not some draft “find” that the Nats deserve credit for, he wanted too much money and the Nats were the only team willing to pony up. He’s not a 4th round talent, he’s always been a high round talent that if he didnt sign, would have been 1st round the next season.
Ummm, but they signed right?
I get his point though. I don’t completely agree with it but… I remember at the time everybody had Cole as a consensus 1st round type pick.
He wasn’t a diamond in the rough guy who had an injury history that fell, it was essentially all about the money. He wasn’t somebody everybody completely missed, it just came down to nobody wanted to pay him but the Nationals.
Yes, they did sign, but it wasn’t because of the Nationals superior scouting, it was because of their checkbook. I’m curious to see how this organization responds to the new slotting rules.
By only signing two or three prospects every year. That way we can still pay more for a couple guys like always.
Just kidding, i know the new rules.
Yep, that’s exactly what I meant. Saying “Oh the Nats traded all these late rounders” isn’t quite accurate because these guys are not late round talent.
If the A’s prospects reach their potential, a rotation of Parker, Peacock, and Cole will be a force!!
don’t forget gray!
Ynoa and Krol, too! Both are still just 20 years old, and oozing potential. And Ynoa isn’t as injury-prone as most people seem to think. Aside from his Tommy John surgery, I think the only other long period of time that he was on the shelf had something to do with serious complications following his wisdom teeth extractions (which had nothing to do with his throwing arm).
Parker/Peacock/Cole/Milone/Gray
And, of course at the MLB level, you got Anderson, McCarthy, and Braden (who, if healthy, are still a decent 1-2-3).
next year’s AAA rotation is gonna be sick!
It’s not as if Nationals Park is a bandbox. It really plays pretty fairly, probably slanted a little towards pitchers (based off my own perception, haven’t looked at park effects recently). The switch from the AL to the NL may give him a boost as well. And he doesn’t need to pitch like an ace for this trade to be worth it; four years of control for a good 2/3 guy entering his prime is certainly worth a lot. It still seems like they gave up a lot, not only in talent but also in roster flexibility and depth; since Detwiler is out of options, it appears that he’ll be moving somewhere in some way soon, either by trade or by being scooped up on waivers. Who, then, is going to take over if/when someone on the staff gets injured? It’s no small fact that 3/5 of the rotation has had major surgery relatively recently (Wang on shoulder, Stras/Zimmnn Tommy John) and pitcher attrition is always a factor. It’ll be interesting how Rizzo plans to plug some of these SP depth issues.
Lannan most likely moves. Worse than any pitcher in Oakland’s starting rotation last year. Probably why Johnson likes Detwiler and he, unlike Lannan, is a power pitcher who can work in relief … depth: Tom Gorzelanny and Craig Stammen plus CM Wang. Stammen could be returned to the minors as he has options remaining but its a hunch he ends up in the major league pen.
Emergency call-up depth in Syracuse is a problem. Eric Arneson who had a good year in AA and Yunesky Maya who had a really horrible year and is now 30. Then there’s Danny Rosenbaum, a crafty soft-tossing lefty, not unlike Milone but more like Lannan in that he walks batters who finished in AA Harrisburg last year. A journeyman named Steve Buschmann. Not as deep as they were last year. Not even close.
Overall it was slightly pitcher friendly in 2011, but it gave up slightly more HRs than average.
These professional talent scouts, and journalists who cover baseball for a living are all morons. And I’M right. Billy Beane blew it! Blew it, I say!!!
Signed,
Nicholas
Why listen to profesionals when you can listen to some random guy named Nicholas. I mean seriously who cares what they say.
Even though I disagree with him the “professionals” have just about the same correct/wrong ratio as every single person on this site.
It’s a joke son.
Yea i re-read it after I posted that and realized I am a tard.
Another lefty strikeout pitcher to frustrate the swing-happy, mostly-lefty Braves lineup.
Great… :/
ask nats fans 24 hours ago
they were hesitant to even give up one of those pitching prospects, now ended up all 3
Thats not true, read the earlier post when we were trying to get him, we just didnt want to give up Espinosa, Storen, Desmond, Rendon, or Goodwin.
Not sure why Espinosa and Desmond are so loved by all Nats fans. I don’t get it.
Desmond isn’t loved by all Nats fans.
Danny is. He had a rough second half, but when he was hot he was playing like a ROY.
Plenty of us didn’t want to lose Cole, but you have to give to get.
With this influx of high level prospects, and this year’s 5 picks in the first two rounds, a’s are gonna have such a stacked minor league system, maybe not a top 5, but still stacked
ya im really excited it’ll be interesting to see how these guys pan out
I didn’t want to trade both Peacock AND Cole…just one or the other. If we could’ve replaced one with, say, Hood then I would be all in on this deal. That said, its a mute point. I look forward to seeing Gio!
Moot. Just saying
now its time for the a’s package their #6 and #7 starters like outman, ross. plus the depth they have a 1b and utility infielders like kila, carter cardenas and sogard trade them for better prospects for more depth at infield corners. these guys won’t work for the a’s since they have braden, anderson, parker, millone, peacock, moscoso, godfrey, and mccarthey all looking for spots. and with barton coming back and brandon allen, plus penny and weeks are a lock for the mid infield they might as well get a nice young 3b prospect if they pack these some of these guys together.
Woah there. Before we go replacing nearly everyone in the entire system, let’s see how some things play out in spring training first. Anderson will be out until at least late-July, and it’s possible he won’t even pitch 2012. You never know with Tommy John surgery. Plus Dallas Braden isn’t a lock for Opening Day. They may need every last one of those #6 and 7 types that you’re referring to. Especially since McCarthy, Outman and Ross are all three injury-prone, and we have no idea which rookies will be ready for sure.
As far as position players go, I’m with you on trying to trade Ka’aihue, though I doubt they’d get much more than cash considerations. But shouldn’t we see what Carter can do with an extended audition before we write him off at age 25? And let Cardenas play a full season at 2B or SS in Sacramento, to hopefully improve his stock? And keep Sogard around in case Rosales has another bad year?
I like your enthusiasm. But lets not get carried away here.
This is great news for my Braves. Another highly sought after pitcher that is gone now. The trade market is getting thinner by the day so the Braves should get what they want for Jurrjens now since Starting pitching is always high in demand. As much as I would love to keep Jurrjens on the Braves but if they can get a great deal for him for the future they should do it especially with his history of knee problems.
Yeah. This should definitely help the Braves a bit. Between what San Diego got for Latos and what the A’s got for Gio, teams are gonna fully understand (if they didn’t already) that good starting pitchers aren’t gonna come cheap via the trade market. I’m sure we’ll start hearing a lot more Jurrjens rumors/speculation over the next several days, and probably see a deal get done within a week now.
If you take the top 10 ball parks as far as runs allowed goes, Gio played at 4 of them this past season, (TEX, BOS, TOR, NYY) he didn’t do so hot. He had a 4.25 ERA, averaged 5 innings an outing, walked almost 4 batters a game, surrendered almost two HR’s a game and averaged 4.75 SO/Game. All in all, he doesn’t do so hot in hitter’s ballparks, I agree with Keith Law.
small sample size/unpolished product
Has anyone put any thought into which two players the A’s will DFA to make room for Milone, Peacock and Norris?
My guess is it’s some combination of Pedro Figueroa, Sean Doolittle, Josh Donaldson, Anthony Recker.
Its just Powell, not 2 players. They had one space open already.
Not true. Check the roster. It had 40 men on it before the Gio trade, and now they’ve added Peacock, Milone an Norris to it, and have only subtracted Gio and Powell.
One more has to go. And if you won’t take my word for it, check Susan Slusser’s Twitter account.
Good thing you can look into the future.
Milone’s upside is a 5 starter unless he learns to pitch like Tom Glavine.
Bleacher are you an A’s fan?
Choice, Green, Weeks, Sizemore, Norris, Carter, Allen, Kila, Barton….not the greatest but not totally worthless.
You forget Brett Anderson’s still on the team, and has proven nothing short of acehood when healthy.
Ahh you were talking about Cole. I feel sheepish.
You’re mistaken. His upside is higher than that. Any pitcher who has the control he has can be more than a number 5. I’d say best case scenario (which is basically upside) is a decent #3, or a good #4.
doubtful, he could end up a #1 when all is said and done. people said the exact same things about tim hudson.
I couldn’t agree more. I’m an A’s fan, and I’m pretty thrilled right now.
I guess I should have been more clear with my sarcasm. My post was meant to mock the troll from the previous Gio/Nationals thread, who literally posted somewhere around 45 times about how dumb Billy Beane was, and how dumb anyone who liked this trade was.
thats a joke post bro
What team? Just curious.
I thought it was a fair trade for both teams.
I got it bro….dude was going hard with the homophobic comments too (for literally no reason). Just a bad troll.
Its actually a fair deal if its Balfour&Bailey for Middlebrooks and some random 19 year old. Boston has Bogaerts, Cecchini & Coyle if they need a 3B.
I do too. So long as Gio can maintain his composure, which was always his biggest flaw, I think he’ll do well in Washington. It’s another pitcher-friendly park, and the NL is a more pitcher-friendly league in general.
Whats the deal with Cardenas? He seems like he has the hitting skills for MLB but lacks a true defensive position. Do you trade him or move him around the infield a little and see where he does the best?
If he is traded I think the Tigers would be a good matchup. A left handed young Placido Polanco type.
Just take Barton off the list…. who would like a 1B who bunts and struggles all year long. He isn’t going to pan out. Barton is in fact totally worthless.
Don’t stop there, though… Jemile Weeks, Chris Carter, Michael Taylor, Grant Green, Stephen Parker, Michael Choice, Derek Norris, Yordy Cabrera, B.A. Vollmuth, Bobby Crocker, Rashun Dixon, Max Stassi, Chad Lewis, Aaron Shipman… Every one of these guys have the potential to be a true impact player by the time 2015 rolls around. And Vicmal De La Cruz and Renato Nunez have the ability to become two of the best prospects in baseball by that time.
I can’t say I’m optimistic about Landon Powell, Josh Donaldson, Anthony Recker, Brandon Allen, Adrian Cardenas or Kila Ka’aihue’s future. But I definitely still believe in Daric Barton. And I’m not sure we’ve seen the best of Kurt Suzuki, Cliff Pennington, Ryan Sweeney or Scott Sizemore yet.
I’m also a pretty big fan of Adam Rosales and Eric Sogard as utility infielders, and am intrigued by Jermaine Mitchell, Jai Miller and Collin Cowgill as 4th outfielders.
Those prospects obviously won’t ALL pan out. In fact, I’d be a little surprised if half of them do. But if just a two of them can become great, and a few can become very good, the A’s are gonna be just fine in 2015. Especially if they can get into a new ballpark that year, because they’ll have more money to spend on free agents (and free agents will probably accept their money a lot more often).
i think he’s yankees
..Yankees? At least that’s what the name would imply.
They will be fixed when they move. Sad to say. I am at many games yearly. Best to do as an A’s fan is just like them as a team and accept every player will be elite for someone else soon.
heard of jemile weeks? he’s our new star
Refuse to spend money? Didn’t they offer Adrian Beltre to a substantial contract? They tried to sign Rafael Furcal, but he took less years to be with the Dodgers. It’s not that they are unwilling to keep them, its that they can’t. Hate to see these players walk away (the way Giambi did even though he was offered 5-6 years 90 mil) without getting something in return. Unfortunately it’s the nature of the beast.
It all just seems like they are in trade all the time mode but in all reality it only applies to the past couple of years because they only did a halfa**
rebuild and did not fully commit to the cause. For the years ’99-’04 they were fully capable of fielding a team without trading any pivotal player and they competed. BB is going to try and catch each one of these guys right at the point in which they will work for the A’s and then ride it to the playoffs like last time. Same formula; different strategy.
what are we supposed to do? I grew up and live in the Bay Area my entire life…I remember rooting for Canseco / Mcgwire and the 89 Bay Bridge series…the team has won world series in my lifetime…I’m supposed to quit on my hometown team after all these memories just because they have gone in the shi@tter the past 5 years? A fan is a fan…I will always love my A’s despite how rough it has been.
He’s so bad at defense I don’t think he has a future at this point, but then again teams have employed Mark Kotsay as a 1B so maybe he gets a gig that way. But the A’s have Barton who was hurt and needed surgery last year but tried to play through it and stunk….I think a healthy Barton makes Cardenas completely irrelevant.
Thanks.
Definitely Yankees. He HATES the Red Sox
haha its gonna be in a while
Don’t forget the Astros!
He’s probably on the list because he was sixth among all MLB first basemen in WAR in 2010. Horrid 2011, but not sure I’d write him off just yet.
The bunting was all Bob Geren, who has since been fired. He told Barton to bunt.
Barton was good in ’09 when he played, and a well above average 1B in 2010. He should be in the mix for a starting job, especially considering some of the injuries in 2011.
What decade are you living in?
I also like Michael Choice.
Yeah its really not smart to throw away a 5 WAR 1B just because he was injured. Barton is spectacular defensively and gets on base like crazy.
michael choice is going to be a star
I don’t really know why people think Beane wants Middlebrooks so bad anyway. He definitely isn’t a Beane type of guy.
They think that because multiple credible beat writers reported that Bailey would have already been a Red Sock if Boston was willing to part with Middlebrooks for him in a package.
it’s because of our lack of a legit 3rd base prospect in AAA and AA, and even high-A, our best prospect there was drafted last year. We don’t have any long-term 3rd basemen, so Middlebrooks would slide in as our best option going into next year
all of this, unless stephen parker somehow has a breakout year, powerwise and defense-wise
Who is a “Beane type of guy”? Matt Holliday? Beane doesn’t have a philosophy anymore, Theo stole Moneyball and used it the way it was supposed to work, by supplementing a strong farm of high OBP guys and bargains with big money superstars. Beane never did that last part as much as he tried with Chavez and Giambi.
Beane has said this offseason he wants A-ball and AA-ball guys, especially 3B and OF. Middlebrooks is that guy.
Which “multiple credible beat writers” are you referring to? If you’re talking about any of the Boston writers I have something to tell you.
Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle, and Jane Lee of MLB.com are the main two that come to mind. I tried to find you a link, but my computer is nearly frozen right now. It’s probably on this site, though, if you search ‘Andrew Bailey Boston’.
i never heard anything too bad about his D at 3rd, just that he didn’t have the range for 2nd base
as long as he cuts down the strikeouts, i agree, but he reallyyyyy needs to cut down the strikeouts
If Jamie Moyer can be successful in the American League during the steroid era, this kid can be more than a #5.
But do you really want a guy who will get on base, singles mostly, at a position that should produce more rbi’s and power.
Those are such minor aspects of contracts they have no relevance. Its the fact that the A’s needed to completely go all out on the FA’s to ensure something special. To say that guys like Damon, Giambi, and Tejada left because they did have NTC is completely false and that is not the matter of the players anyways. That is all between the front office and the agents and they players can say their preference but Beltre has had the A’s on his no sign or trade list for a long time. The A’s offered so much more money for Beltre but he decided not to do it. The NTC is a security blanket and guys like Beane cant give them because then he will end up in the position he was dealt with Chavez, unproductivity and nothing he can do about it.
You should look up the word “budget” in the dictionary.
And what you’re saying about no-trade clauses makes no sense, whatsoever. First of all, do you even know for a fact that Beane has a strict policy of not giving no-trade clauses? Because just last year, he gave Hideki Matsui a limited no-trade clause that included six teams.
And if Beane DOES have a policy of not giving out FULL no-trade clauses, then that’s a probably a good thing. Look at how much trouble Jim Hendry got the Cubs in by handing out all those no-trade clauses.
And has Miami’s no-trade clause policy hurt them this offseason? I think not. They didn’t get Pujols. But that’s probably a good thing in the long-run, if their offer to him was truly 10/$275M.
who’s to say that 1b is the place to put the power? just because traditionally you can hide the fat guy at first does not mean you have to obtain power from there. A high OBP guy that can field half of the right side and has gotten screwed from a few gold gloves (NYY Texiera? really?) is really something you can’t find otherwise
If Barton can recover from that shoulder injury, and get back to producing a WAR of around 5.1 every year, no one’s gonna care if his SLG is lower than his OBP (except for the fossils who still evaluate players by their batting average, RBI and HR totals).
Think about this: 9 Daric Barton’s at his 2010 level would easily lead all of baseball in offense.
IS YOUR MIND BLOWN YET?
I don’t think he meant McCarthy was a true ace. I’m pretty sure he just meant that he’s the true ace of the A’s starting rotation right now.
And with Anderson out until at least July, and Braden being a question mark for Opening Day, it’s pretty hard to disagree. McCarthy and Moscoso are the only two locks for the Opening Week starting rotation (assuming they both stay healthy and don’t get traded before then).
I’m not sure I agree with the part about them “not fully commit[ting]” to the last rebuild. I DO think they tried to rush it when they traded for Holliday prior to the 2009 season. But with the exception of that mistake, I think they made a darn good effort.
The trades they made after the 2007 season led Baseball Prospectus to rank their farm system as second-best in baseball. And the trades they made in 2008 led BP to rank it THE best farm system (as of spring 2009).
What made it not work was them not being able to lure any of their top free agent targets. They tried to sign quite a few good veteran free agents to surround their core of young players. But in several cases, even though they guaranteed them the most money, some players like Furcal, Scutaro, Beltre and Berkman rejected their offers.
It also hurt that Carter and Taylor didn’t develop as quickly as many scouts believed they would. And we can’t forget about the record amount of injuries that the A’s have had to endure since 2007. That was probably the most damaging thing was all.
I hate to come of as such an apologist. But everything I’ve written is factual.
Its good to know that it is all factual, how the A’s simply just have had really bad luck since 2007 and have had a lot more talent than has been shown.
so far…as an unpolished product, yes that is true. Will it be seen as true 1-3 years from now? Doubtful.
What are you trying to say? That if Carter and Taylor had panned out by now, and if Beltre and Berkman would have accepted their offers, and if Anderson, Braden, Barton, etc. had stayed healthy, that they WOULDN’T be contenders right now?
If that’s you’re mindset, then you might as well go ahead and give up on the current rebuild as well, and just check back and see how they’re doing about 7 years from now. Because if their luck is as bad over the next 4 years, as it has been the previous 4 years, then this rebuild is also doomed.