The Cubs are attempting to deal "most of their valuable assets" before Spring Training begins and "a complete overhaul of the team will definitely happen," two Major League sources tell David Kaplan of CSN Chicago. The impending Sean Marshall-for-Travis Wood trade is the first step in this process, as the Cubs are acquiring a young, controllable, 24-year-old southpaw starter for a 29-year-old reliever who was set to earn $3.1MM in 2012.
We heard last month that the Cubs were shopping their entire roster, though as MLBTR's Tim Dierkes pointed out, "a team drawing three million fans a year doesn't often embark on a full-on offseason rebuilding effort." The Marshall-Wood trade, for instance, still gives Chicago a player who can contribute in 2012. Also, the Cubs were rumored to be in on the Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder sweepstakes this winter, as signing either player would represent the Cubs' first step towards respectability under the Theo Epstein/Jed Hoyer regime. Kaplan, however, hears that the Cubs aren't in on Fielder, nor are they planning to make him "a major offer."
"The Cubs have never had the guts to completely blow up their roster and build it the right way," an unnamed NL executive tells Kaplan. "They have to have a plan for sustained success instead of always trying to patchwork a roster for a surprising season."
Even if the team does rebuild, I'd argue the process may not take as long as the Wrigleyville fans may fear. Carlos Zambrano, Ryan Dempster and Marlon Byrd all come off the books after this season, leaving Alfonso Soriano as the only major remaining albatross contract on the payroll. Chicago's future payroll commitments could get even lower should Matt Garza and/or Carlos Marmol be traded, so Epstein and Hoyer could have tens of millions of dollars to work with by as soon as next winter. This is admittedly a long list of ifs, but if this extra spending money can be augmented by a couple of strong drafts and the emergence of young stars like Andrew Cashner and Brett Jackson, the Cubs could be back in the NL Central hunt by as soon as 2014.
Moronic.
Which makes total sense considering they just signed an aging reliever.
i know man. they say they’ll rebuild, but then they go out and give a guy a one-year contract
truly confounding
1 year contract makes sense. He’s just there to fill out the 25 man roster while they accumulate prospects.
WHOOOOOOOOOOOSH
Lmao biggest Whooooosh ever
I agree, buying low so as to spin guys off at the deadline for a prospect or two is dumb.
Clearly they should… i don’t know dance a jig and whistle, rather than take advantage of any opportunities.
Logic is fun!
I wouldn’t be mad if everyone on the ML roster but Starlin were dealt.
Castro and Cashner. Everyone else can go! I am looking forward to seeing what LaHair can do.
Good point. Cashner could be a future closer.
cashner is a starter. he went through the minors as a starter for a reason. so a rotator cuff injury is scaring you away from what was a promising front-end starter rising through the minors? get guts. closers are drastically less valuable to a team than a starter. which is why the rangers and reds came to their senses and settled on making their respective young stud arms starters.
Whoa. Simmer down. I do believe I wrote COULD. It’s also nice of you to assume that I feel this way b/c of a shoulder injury. We’re talking about a guy who has made ONE career start, and will most likely need ’12 to at least stretch himself out. I’m not sure if he’s been doing that this offseason, but even if he has, he’ll have to show that he can be a guy who makes quality starts, and doesn’t just take up a spot in the rotation because he throws hard and is 25. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cashner working out of the pen in ’12 as a late-innings reliever or even setup man for Marmol.
No, you don’t keep a guy with shoulder issues in case he’s a future closer. However, he could be a solid starter going forward, if he gets his arm strength up to more than one 6-inning start.
I mean, they have Chris Carpenter as a future closer, if they want.
So, a guy with shoulder issues is out of the question as a potential closer, but it’s okay to turn him into a starter? I think his pitching repertoire (throws hard, 3-pitch pitcher) lends to him being a pretty decent closer, if the Cubs ever went that route.
No, making a guy an untouchable because he could close for a team you want to gut is my issue. I’m saying they should see how he does as a starter. There’s a reason to keep younger starters, but not so much with relievers (especially when you have an alternative like Carpenter).
Okay, I see. I honestly don’t think anyone is untouchable, but I guess Cashner is someone I’d like to see develop, mainly because we didn’t see much at all from him in ’11.
Dear lord, he doesn’t have “Shoulder issues,” he’s been injured once in his entire career. It’s just as likely this is never an issue again as it is that it comes up in the future.
doing it right
Who among the 29 teams is going to want Carlos Mármol?
He’s owed a cool 7 million in ’12 and almost 10 million in ’13.
The Cubs are going to have to eat a lot of that salary to get rid of him!
Soriano and Marmol to the O’s for Kevin Gregg
Cubs eat all of the salary the former Cubs
Duquette declares victory over the person who replaced him in Boston!
If you want the prospects to rebuild, why wouldn’t the Cubs eat alot of salary? They are going to pay the salary anyway, while getting little or no return. Eat the salary, take the prospect.
Marmol is far from being useless. He had a 3.54 FIP. Yes, he is a high wire act but he does a great job of erasing most of his BB’s with a crazy KO rate.
I hear you about the Strikeouts, but the guy self destructs and that’s bad for business when you’re a closer.
he is just being over used. He has pitched a ton of innings the past few years. If Dale can keep his innings in check I expect a rebound season and eventually a trade at the deadline.
Chi City Sports misses you 🙁
That’s dumb. Really, Kevin Gregg? He’s the worst person in Cubs history to ever attempt a save…well, except maybe LaTroy Hawkins.
Marmol had one sketchy year, so 2/$27 million is too much for him when you see Paps getting about $50 million and Madson maybe in-line for $40 million?
I think seeing Gregg in a Cubs jersey again would make 75% of Cubs fans jump off the Hancock Building.
I don’t want that to happen. That would be terrible.
However, it would be nice if Kevin Gregg played elsewhere in 2012.
I haven’t the foggiest what Showalter saw in him in the first place.
Bartman………….lol
Absolutely the right thing to do. I’d argue, with a lot of other people, that it should have been done sooner.
MLB needs the amnesity rule like the NBA has now.
Or non-guaranteed contracts like the NFL. I’m sure the Yankees would’ve released Burnett 100 times by now.
No, only for teams with payrolls under the luxury tax, or maybe under $125 million.
Teams that use their financial might to bully smaller teams deserve the filth they grab from the bowels of free agency.
Yeah…you clearly didn’t sense the sarcasm in my reply. I wasn’t trying to state that I somehow feel sorry for the Yanks or any other team (like the Cubs) who squander money on FAs.
I was just saying that some teams who have money issues should maybe get an amnesty every 5-10 years or something. Just one, to keep small-market teams from getting crippled.
I get that point, but I don’t think that’d be fair. All of the teams have ample opportunity to evaluate talent and negotiate deals. I don’t think a small market team is necessarily at a disadvantage when it comes to this. It’d kinda be like giving the impoverished more time to pay their taxes, in my opinion. Well, I think that’s a comparable scenario, at least.
Complete rebuild? This is a complete destruction. Was Epstein brought in to create a winner or destroy this organization completely, because he sure is DOING JUST THAT. Yeah, a complete rebuild, so in other words, for the next 5 years, nothing but the cellar, and close to 100 loses each year. Yeah that a boy Theo. What the heck was in that clam chowder he’s been munching on in Boston (go back, NOW).
Sure the Astros lost a bunch of games but I just don’t see how the Cubs are that much better, especially considering those horrible contracts for next year.
So if the Cubs can be ready by 2014 so can my Stros.
I don’t really know what the Astros have going for them. Do they have any top prospects? And if they have one, do they have two?
Cosart and Singleton from the Phillies. Supposedly Jordan Lyles, DeShields, and maybe JD Martinez will surprise the pack. Same b.s. hopes that everyone else pins on their prospects so I don’t see why the Astros are any different.
Because the Astros are always ranked last in farm systems. They have no major league talent, and barely any minor league talent. With Wade gone, that could easily change. So far, I like the Melancon trade.
You like trading a young, developing, talented closer for a pitcher who will be out of baseball in three years and a back up infielder?
Weiland has a back-of-the-rotation ceiling and a major league reliever floor, and Lowrie is likely a good-not-great starter if he stays healthy.
I still think Boston came out on the winning end when all is said and done, but it isn’t nearly as one sided as you make it out to be.
The Sox made a great deal. No guys with no value to their team shipped off for a closer with a great future. As a Yankees fan, I hope Melancon does well. But then again, I also hope he blows every game.
Didn’t think about what I said. I should have said, the Astros made out well. They just acquired their Opening Day starter, and their number three hitter. Hahaha.
Astros will be in the AL then though, pretty big disadvantage.
The difference is that the Cubs have 2-3 players they can trade for good hauls of prospects, which jump starts their rebuilding by several years.
Not just an againg reliever, but an again reliver still recovering from TJ surgery. This is STUPID. They should have kept Henry, he was doing good enough, keeping them out last place. Theo’s directing them to last place.
for now but once again look at the long term and not the short term…jeez do you know anything about baseball
Sort of nitpicking, but I don’t see how you can consider Byrd’s contract to be an albatross.
Well if they do trade Castro I find the padres to be a great fit. Maybe Rizzo, Gyorko, Decker, Blanks, and Simon Castro.
about damn time to tear it down and do it right buyin it has never worked for them!!
and garza can be suspect himself on a day to day basis
as an actual cubs fan, who is used to losing and knows what it takes to win (just kidding). this is refreshing. no one on this team outside of Castro is worth keeping. Deal what you can now, sign the missing pieces between ’12 and ’13 and you will have a great team and farm system from there on out. for the cubs fans talking bad about a general manager who is actually managing an organization to win and not appease the idiotic fanbase, shut up.
if you want the cubs to win, its not going to happen in ’12. build a base and grow a team. when was the last time a team won a championship by signing all the top free agents? i didnt see the red sox or phillies in the world series last year.
You’re right, but the NL Central is a lot easier to buy than the AL or NL East
Agreed. Everyone should be available. Garza will never be more valuable than he is today. I think the Yankee and the Blue Jays should be Theo’s first calls. Getting a haul of prospects in return, before spring training, is the way to go.
If Garza comes up with a sore shoulder or elbow, then it’s too late.
the thing that bothers me is that no one seems to think that campana is any good
File under: no shlit, Sherlock (it’s been 103 years)
Dig deeper, Watson!
hope u mean 1 or 2 names out of those 5 u named because theres no way the padres would give up all 5 lol..
Good decision, that’s what I suggested here months ago. That’s what they should’ve planned going in to the winter meetings.
Get as many prospects as possible, get rid of bad contracts and let the young players get experience. Build group up and Cubs will succeed!
No more Fielder sweepstake is a good decision by cubs FO.
Maybe as his market continues to shrink. along with the length of his contract, the Prince of Pork will put the fork down and get a dietician and a trainer.
welcome to the club cubbie fans
they started the club
Good for the Cubs. This is what should be done. It’s better to build a strong team from the ground up than to keep investing in overpriced players just to try to get close to a .500 record.
They will be alot better in the long run for doing this.
It’s about time , all the people upset you will understand why this is a good idea in 2-3 years when you start to see the signs of prospects flourishing and bad contracts off the books, so much more payroll flexibility etc. Now trade Garza to the Jays please?
So is Brett Jackson the next in the Patterson/Pie tradition of Cubs CF prospects with big swings and little patience?
uh… no?
Considering he has about an 14% walk rate, I’d say the little patience isn’t a concern.
If the Cubs are actually about to embark on a rebuild then it would make sense to go after the Padres Anthony Rizzo. Put together a package that would get him to the Chicago, that kid is a beast and would put up some impressive power numbers in Wrigly IMHO.
I’ve always known were we in “rebuilding” mode, i’m fine with that…at least for next year. But can we at least keep Castro, Barney, Campana, Garza & Marmol? At least go after Fielder & Cespedes?
Campana would be great as a pinch runner and bat boy.
Yeah he’s the fastest guy on the team, we don’t have much speed just him, Castro & probably Barney as well.
Campana’s bat and arm are what’s keeping him from getting decent playing time.
Yup.
i call bull
You’re joking, right?
i agree for the most part but marmol and garza can be traded and maybe get only one of those two
Are the Cubbies shopping Darwin Barney would be a good fit for the Cardinals.
I doubt they’d trade him to their rivals…but as a Cards fan I’m fine with Descalso/Greene until Kolten Wong is ready in a year or two. Plus I wouldn’t want to give the Cubs any decent prospects (because they would want someone of value in return)
Cards don’t have much to send in return. Their only real prospects over the past few years are on the team now.
It’s only after you’ve lost everything that you’re free to do anything, after all.
Onto the meat of the post: would the Cubs under any circumstance consider trading Castro seeing the return for young players with lots of control (ie. Latos, Gonzalez – no jokes, please) at positions that have very few promising players on the market? Do they have any promising SS prospects in the lower levels?
Javier Baez, who’s only 19, appears to be a pretty good SS prospect. He’ll probably play 3B in the majors, though.
Ah, thanks.
Royals,pirates,a’s,orioles,padres,mariners,astros,rays and the rest of the teams rebuilding….NEVER WIN freeagents get you to the promise land my friend.
Rangers?
Its not like the Rays have made the playoffs three out of four times and the others(besides the O’s, mariners, and Astros) have very bright futures or anything.
Rays have been in the playoffs 2 years in a row…
Can’t really speak about other teams but rebuilding worked out pretty well for the Phillies.
… and the Rays are pretty good.
there is 1 player from the early 2000 Tigers left. Our team has gotten pretty good. Cubs need this. At least they have means to do so. I feel so bad for the A’s, trading all their players cause they cant get a stadium
Yeah…that’s gonna get deleted.
it took them over a decade to realize this. cubs are a complete failure and joke.
So you’re insinuating that this was a lost decade for the Cubs?
Why didn’t the Cubs move Garza to the Reds? SD got the sweet deal, while the Flubs sat on the side line. Alonso would answer the hole at 1b, Grandal could step in and start at C, Volquez is a decent fifth starter.
I don’t mind the rebuilding, but I don’t want Fielder. Let someone else overpay
Overpaying in terms of dollars per year or years?
Is this serious?
lol how does “2014” make Cubs fans happy. Too bad they couldn’t have just won it in 2003, or better yet, 2008 where they probably had the best team on paper.
#1. I’m sick of hearing about prospects. Our prospects work out about 10% of the time. What makes other team’s prospects different? Prospects are suspects. He hit .141 last year. I know its a small sample size. We don’t know if he’s really got true MLB potential, or if he is a “4A” player.
#2. I hate the idea of rebuilding. Hate it. But, at the same time…what’s right isn’t always popular, and what’s popular isn’t always right. I just think guys like Garza and Marshall are valuable to the rebuilding project.
Ummmmmm what?
Why do you hate rebuilding? It worked out pretty well for Philadelphia, Texas, Tampa Bay, the Yankees, Atlanta, among others.
You may not like prospects but the more prospects you can acquire the more chances you’ll have at hitting on them. A strong farm system is the key to sustained success.
Long story short. I’m just a whiner. As a Cubs fan, for years we hear about how great our farm players are and them not being anywhere near what they are. I guess that’s where the Cubs differ from all the teams you’ve listed.
I’m overreacting because I hate hearing Garza’s name in rumors and then hearing they may not go for Fielder (which it appears he will eventually wind up with someone sucky, anyway, so why not the Cubs?)
I’d like to see the Cubs have more than just Castro to build around.
Chances are that this will eventually be successful too, but where some of you who aren’t Cubs fans look at it like a good thing, some of us Cubs fans love it, where as some like myself just have that feeling of…”oh boy, we thought we sucked before.”
Seriously though…hope it works out, but the next few years just seem…no fun. I can’t for the life of me just sit through 2012 and 2013 thinking of how we “could be competing by 2014.”
Gave you a ‘like’ for honesty.
Look at it this way: if the Cubs trade Garza (or whoever) for a few prospects, and a couple of them are major league ready, or maybe got a taste of the majors last year, and will be under team control for 6 (or whatever) more years, then they will have those other players to build around that you want them to have.
Signing free agents isn’t the way to get players to build around because they are always more expensive and, if not at, are much closer to their decline years.
The rangers got there but didn’t win.. Trades + freeagents =world series win
No, they really don’t. Building a young core group of players THEN adding the right complementary pieces through trades and free agents.
Unless you don’t want sustained success.
I didn’t know that the rays won the w.s …what year was that.. The pirates and the rays have the same amount of rings the last 3 years…0
since the cubs trade and free agent signing theory has worked for the last 100 years…
Since the Cubs drafting has also worked for the last 100 years.
As a Cubs fan, you really shouldn’t be unimpressed by the Texas Rangers, who won back to back pennants and a Rays team that went to the World Series in 2008.
Those teams have put themselves in a position to have a shot at a title for the next 3-10 years.
Even the Yankees and Red Sox had to build a core of young players. I feel sorry for you that this organization has conned you into believing free agency and bad contracts are the keys to success. When Theo Epstein is done with this franchise, they’ll be a perennial contender.
Alternate headline: “Cubs Finally F____ing Get It.”
Ryan Dempster and Marlon Byrd both scream “Trade deadline candidate” so they’ll be gone easy
Good for the Cubs. This will also be a pretty good test to see how good of a baseball person Epstein really is.
2014? 2014? Really?
Ok Cubs fans, go home. It’s December of 2011 but you won’t watch a winner for two years. Please continue to pay 43 bucks a ticket to watch a loser for two seasons.
I don’t think so.
If the Cubs are gonna spend $135 million why would fans wait two years for a contender? That’s money-laundering in plain sight.
Either these latest reports on the Cubs are wrong or they’re not going to spend even close to last year’s payroll.
And if the Cubs aren’t spending the money they make, fans get to ask: what are they paying for? Because paying for hope two years from now is (really smurfing) expensive.
I could be a Pirates fan for two years, pay less, and be just as likely to win (Pittsburgh finished ahead of the Cubs last year.)
You must not want a sustained winner because that’s what Theo Epstein is trying to build. If you want to believe this team is a big contract or two away from a title, you need to learn something about baseball.
The teams that win built their teams through their farm systems. Two years or three years from now, the Cubs could be something special.
Like the Yankees? Red Sox? Dodgers? Angels? Rangers? Phillies?
You’re telling me all those big market teams compete every year because of their farm system?
Remind me, when were they rebuilding?
I know, let’s ask those teams to compete on $50 million dollar payrolls–I’m sure they won’t mind. They don’t really use that extra money for anything other than investing in their farm systems to build perennial contenders.
He-LLO. Wake. Up.
This isn’t stock car racing, it’s formula one. Money matters.
You don’t have to like it. But money is the reason you don’t see big market teams blow up the team every few years like they do in Smallsburg.
And if you don’t believe it, then why do small market teams try to trade major league proven talent every year? (Tip: because they can’t afford it.)
If you can’t rebuild AND contend in a big market, you don’t deserve to have a big league team.
The Cubs are loaded with bad contracts and STILL have 45 million to spend. That’s not a “contract or two” worth of spending money.
That’s a 25-man roster in Oakland, Pittsburgh or San Diego.
The Cubs are so bad they can still spend what other teams do for their entire payroll and NOT contend?
Wow. That Kool-Aid sucks.
The 2012 Cubs are worse than last year. They have 45 million to spend. It’s not too soon to ask when they get better.
That’s Theo’s job.
It makes more sense that the “rebuild” leaks are misdirection so teams don’t know what Team Epstein will do. He likes to stay unpredictable.
But building another 70-game winner with a $135 million payroll? That’s not unpredictable, that’s unacceptable.
Most of those teams you listed had to go through decades of suckage before they become perennial contenders because they never tore the team down and rebuilt.
“You don’t have to like it. But money is the reason you don’t see big market teams blow up the team every few years like they do in Smallsburg.” The money is the reason they don’t have to rebuild every few years, but a team in the Cubs’ position does need to do it once.
If building a 70 game winner with a $135 mil payroll is ‘unacceptable’ it would seem the first 230 or so lines contradict your last sentence. If you’re against 70 win $135 mil teams, you should be in favor of what Theo is planning. We’ve seen what the current way produces. Which is, ‘predictably’, 2 70 win/$135 mil teams. To keep the current course IS 70 win/$135 mil season after 70 win $135 mil season after 70 win/$135 mil season after….
They do compete every year, want to know why?
Philadelphia:
Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, Cole Hamels, Carlos Ruiz, Shane Victorino + a few complementary pieces.
Boston:
Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youkilis, Jonathan Papelbon (I’m counting him since he hasn’t pitched for Philly yet), Jon Lester, Clay, among others.
New York:
Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada
Rangers:
Elvis Andrus, Michael Young, CJ Wilson, Josh Hamilton, Derek Holland, Nefali Feliz, Nelson Cruz, among others
Angels:
Jered Weaver, Kendres Morales, Ervin Santana (I’m not really sure about their history, if someone has more names to add, feel free too).
Dodgers:
Matt Kemp, Clayton Kershaw, Andre Either, Chad Billingsly, James Loney
____________________
Why did I name those players? All home grown plays that developed into the nuclues of those teams that enabled them to be contenders long term.
The nucleus comes first, then the complementary free agents. I’m just going to talk about the Phillies. After they implemented their core of players, they built around them. Bringing in players like Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Roy Oswalt, Joe Blanton, Hunter Pence, Jayson Werth, etc.
If you build strictly by spending money, you’re just going to go backwards as a franchise. You don’t spend money because you can, you spend money for the right reasons.
When did those teams rebuild? Maybe you need a history lesson. For a decade, other than 1993, the Phillies were the joke of the National League.
By 2007, the following players were traded (notably): Curt Schilling, Scott Rolen, Jim Thome, Bobby Abreu, Placido Polanco, and the list goes on to include some other names but like I said, notably.
Texas went bankrupt and had to trade Alex Rodriguez, Chan Ho Park, Mark Texiera. Their foundation of their 2010 and 2011 teams was basically from the Texiera trade.
Who said they were going to spend 135 in payroll? The plan was to spend close to that much on baseball expenses when they were planning on spending a ton of money on the draft and international prospects. With the new CBA, they had to completely change their strategy.
Ok, something that should probably be cleared up. For those of you including guys like Darwin Barney and Starlin Castro in your trade scenarios should probably realize that they are already part of the rebuilding plan. They are going to be the veteran leaders when the big prospects come up. The guys that will get traded are the ones that the team has no use for anymore and don’t fit into the future plans. I highly doubt guys like Soto, Barney or Castro fit into that category.
Soto will start getting expensive the next couple of years through arbitration for the Cubs. This year would be the best time to trade him. Barney had the great start last season, but fell off the earth in the second half. I don’t think he has much trade value and will be a nice cheap piece for the next couple of years. Castro will stay, he is pretty much the only untouchable on the team.
Soto should have been the backup catcher out of spring training when he hit .240 and Wellington Castillo only hit .664. Of course the back up was Hill who it .064. 600 points lower then Castillo the problem then was Hendry maybe Theo would actually give Castillo a chance. Or even Michael Brenly too. He’s only on A Ball but he’s already better then Soto.
Soto is a must trade.. his value is extremely low so they wouldn’t get much more then an A ball player. As long as he’s gone it will be a good start.
Drabek, Snider, and $$$ for Garza? I think so.
I’d trade one or the other, but not both for the same player. Both still have tremendous upside, and Anthopoulos selling low on players is the exact opposite of how he seems to operate.
No way. It’s gonna cost a lot more than that. Snider hasn’t been able to hit at the ML level, and Drabek has been straight up terrible.
If you think I want that on my team….well…and for Garza….
lol, enjoy it while it lasts
Soto is actually a prime trade candidate for the trade deadline. He’s going to make around 4 million this year and will be turning 30. Catchers tend to break down earlier than other players, and if he continues with his “every other year” of strong stats, he can draw a pretty big haul. Cubs have 2 catchers in Castillo and Clevenger who are ready to step up into Soto’s spot.
The people I feel sorry for are the Cubs fans that die over the next couple years and STILL don’t see the Cubs win a World Series… plus, they have to spend the last couple years of their existing watching the Cubs suck.
This is completely necessary . It will be worth it of coarse if it works.
trade garza 4 pujols or longaoria??
do you feel better getting that out?
Judging by the throw up that ensued, I would say I sure as heck don’t…
Man, Cub fans are upset.
This team is an absolute mess, due to an inept GM who gave in to the “WIN NOW, WIN AT ANY COST, THROW AS MUCH MONEY AT THE WALL UNTIL SOME OF IT STICKS” mentality the fans apparently have.
Your roster is filled with Castro, Garza, and then a bunch of insanely overpriced junk mixed with some cost-controlled junk. This team is nowhere even remotely close to competing. Throwing 200 million at Fielder isn’t going to change that.
Garza is under control for two more years. You have to trade him and hope you at least get back what you gave up to get him. Shop everyone. Gorge yourself on salary until you can get something, ANYTHING, for guys like Z and Soriano.
There is absolutely no way you can make this team compete before 2014. Your farm system is middling, your major league roster has one core player (Castro), who probably won’t ever be a superstar.
Accept the loses. Accept the lumps. Let the mediocrity wash over you.
IMO, Soto, Marmol, Byrd, and Dempster all need to be traded. If not this offseason, then at the deadline, and since Byrd and Dempster are FAs next offeason, it makes sense to get SOMETHING for them NOW. And since we have Castillo and Clevenger it makes sense to trade Soto too, and since Soto is due to have a good season, teams that are weak behind the plate would jump at the chance to get him,
and as for Marmol, Cubs would probably have to eat half of his salary,
but I’m sure they could find takers for him, could probably get them 2
decent prospects, because that’s what we need, PROSPECTS. No more
overpaying for players who spend years being productive then come to the
Cubs and suck. I’m all for starting from the ground up and going young,
because that’s the ONLY way this team is going to win a World Series.
Dont like this at all –trade all assets and rebuild??? BULLSH** !!!! I would like this to finding an 57 chevy in someones barn that doesnt run–you buy from the farmer and rebuild it but you try and save what you can—and the Cubs have a base to build a team around Castro Garza are a good base traded Marshall might or might not be a good move yes trade Soto and others if you have possible replacements but please dont thro out the baby with the bath water keep what solid pieces you have.
Funny you should use restoring cars as a metaphor, that’s what I do for a living (should have said what I did/still do on occasion)…
What you want the Cubs to do is take the ’57 Chevy out of the Barn, put a cheap coat of paint on it, and try to pass it off as restored; when what it really needs is to be taken off of the frame, have the floors replaced, the engine rebuilt, a new interior, doors, fenders, and quarter panels patched, and to be completely stripped and painted.
Not that I should be surprised though, most people want to pay for a paint job and then are upset when they don’t come away with a full-blown restoration.
Dont want a cheap coat of paint but they should and keep the frame–Garza Castro Marshall and try and patch the qtr panels players like Marmol Szmardjia, They Cubs have some good players I just want then traded.
Keeping Garza is a terrible idea. He is the player who helps you the most in your rebuild when he’s traded, and if you keep him he wont be around by the time you’re competitive anyway so he would be a waste.
I’m not sure why people can see the logic in that?
No fan wants to watch his team suck but if you keep Garza, he will probably still be as good as he is, but the team around him will still suck and in two years he’ll leave and the team will probably still suck because Garza is probably your best asset and it will take longer to build a team strictly from the draft.
The Cubs HAVE money. The idea is to lay the foundation, build the framework then spend wisely and for major talent.
Worked for the Sox.
Exactly, even the people who are against a “complete and total rebuild” should understand (and be behind) the idea of trading Garza.
Sustained Success > Patchwork playoff loser in the first round
Yeah I’ll take that.
As a Cub fan this makes me more excited than anything they’ve done in the past 8 years or so. Frankly I’d rather pay money to go see the prospects that will hopefully be building us into a contender than to go see over payed and under performing veterans squeak out another sub .500 season.
Cubs fans should be thrilled that they finally have someone with a clue to construct that franchise.
So both Chicago teams are in rebuild mode and can be expected to have fire sales?
I wonder when they really begin to move players big time? Next month when the major free agents will be signed or at mid-season?
My honest opinion is most MLB teams achieve success in the modern era with strong farm systems built on astute scouting efforts. This takes a few years to do unless teams are willing to show some grit and deal away “valuable” parts to restock and rebuild quickly. For once, the Cubs franchise is showing some long-term resolve instead of patching together a short-term fix that may or may not (emphasis on “may not”) surprise in a divisional race. I think the effort should be praised, not criticized.
The Cubs can get three or four quality guys for Garza right now when his trade value is at its highest. The Marlins seem driven to assemble quality pitching and, gasp, have interest in Zambrano. DEAL HIM. Teams like the Giants are looking for offense without spending a whole lot of money – maybe Soriano? The time to explore the trade market is now with caps and a now-weak free agent market.
Our Cubs fandom has blinded many of us, leading us to believe we have a shot at some miraculous year every single year. “Wait ’til next year” has now become “Wait ’til the Mayan calendar is up.” I don’t know about other Cub fans, but I know I’m sick and tired of seeing a middling team never show any long-term planning. This is so refreshing to me. I welcome the future. I think others should, too.
Someone is going to have to explain to me how trying to put together a winning team in 2012 and building the farm system are mutually exclusive. If you draft and develop well, you will have a good farm system, and that’s pretty independent of MLB success.
“Win now or win later” is some sort of article of faith among many fans, but I’m still not entirely clear on why that’s a choice at all.
The Cubs aren’t in bad shape because they tried to win with free agents. They are in bad shape because they’ve gotten negative cumulative WAR from their last 10 years of first- and second-round draft picks.
Good insight. People forget how BAD are drafts were for the last DECADE.
dec 23 cubs totally rebuild dec 24 they sign fielder. there isnt a bunch of guys looking to pump up the fan base, they are actually trying to make the team better and not release leaks to the bs chicago media. speed, defense, pitching when you are lacking in all these areas you arent a player or 2 away. we arent the 3 best team in the nl central for f sake.
Can’t wait until there’s a Mets headline that says this…
it doesn’t need to be said..you guys are
The Cubs ABSOLUTELY needed a rebuild, anyone who debates this point is a moron. They COULD have gone out and signed Fielder but what is the point? They aren’t going to win anything with him in the next few years, his contract will only become an albatross like Alfonso’s by the time the Cubs are(could be?) contending.
Teams who should go out and sign Fielder are ones that are currently a Prince Fielder away from being WS contenders, so they can make the most of his prime years to make it easier to swallow the 2-3 years they’re paying him $20 million+ to waddle out onto the field.
Absolutely the right decision for Chicago, they should get a good haul for Garza and could potentially get something good for Alfonso providing they are willing to eat his entire contract… which they should.
They maximised the return on Marshall (BOY did they maximise the return on Marshall) and they have a good FO that will put them in the right direction.
They have been rebuilding for 2 years now. It has done them no good- Theo will do the same old same old and get nowhere like the folks before him.
Yeah, because that’s exactly what he’s talking about doing…
If you’re response to a post on MLBTR is over 5 paragraphs, it’s too long.
Complete rebuild, they should have done this 3 yrs ago. When they kept holding onto Ramirez and Lee. If they completely overhaul please for the love of god get rid of Soriano, Soto, and Zambrano and Marmol, Those 4 players are MUST trades.
And no, Red Sox fans, you cannot have Castro.
Don’t particularly want him (not that I wouldn’t want him on my team, but I wouldn’t want to give them the prospects it would take to get him).
And yes, he’s the one player they could (should?) reasonably hang on to through their rebuild.
Can’t see the value being returned to the Cubs being equal to an early 20’s All-Star Shortstop.
I would trade Castro to the red sox in a hearbeat. Boston would run him out of baseball So fast you wouldn’t know what hit him.
Thinking about wins right now is pointless. It’s time for all Cub fans to bite the bullet and accept a lot of losses for the next two or three years. I would much rather watch a team of young players that hustle on the basepaths and give maximum effort on defense and win 60 games than the dreck that has been on the field the past few years and win 70-75 games. A left fielder who is afraid of coming within twenty feet of the wall? A third baseman who cares so little about winning he won’t hit the dirt to catch a ground ball? Aramis is gone, fortunately. If I see Soriano on the field for the Cubs next year, for the first time in my life, I will not watch a Cubs game in 2012.
I hope management gives the fans more credit than in the past and will focus on defense, speed, and good character guys. To a poster who mentioned that Lackey was not a bad signing at the time by Epstein, he must have never watched Lackey throw a fit on the mound and yell at his teammates two or three times every start when an error or perceived (by him) misplay was made by his defense. Please, no more guys like him or Zambrano or A. Ramirez. And I know this will not be popular, but Castro should be traded. He isn’t a shortstop, has shown signs of a bad attitude (which for a 2nd year player is not a good sign), and could potentially bring a lot in return.
Trade (and absorb any amount of salary that is needed to get Soriano and Zambrano out of here) Soto, Byrd, Zambrano, Garza, Barney (need better plate patience to be a middle infielder with zero power) Wells, Soriano, and Castro. Then midseason, hopefully Marmol and Dempster have pitched well and trade both before the trade deadline. A complete and total overhaul is the way to go. Blow up the entire roster. I would be more than happy to watch Reed Johnson and Campagna hustle and play as many young players as possible at every other position. K. Wood should be re-signed because of promises made and he can provide leadership. I honestly don’t care what the Cubs’ record will be for the short term, I want to watch young guys who care and plan for a pennant run in three years.
The stain of bad management has to be sandblasted from this franchise. Erase the memory of Phil Wrigley, the Tribune Company parade of know nothing suits, Jim Frey, Ed Lynch, Andy MacPahil, Jim Hendry, Sam Zell (under the guidance of his good friend, Jerry Reinsdorf), and Lou Piniella. The apathy/lack of long term planning of these men have kept us as the laughingstock fans in all of American professional sports. I implore Cubs’ fans to accept losing right now for a possible future, becasue they way we’ve done things for 70 years sure as hell hasn’t worked.