Today the Yankees and Mariners announced the trade that will send right-handers Michael Pineda and Jose Campos to New York for catcher/DH Jesus Montero and right-hander Hector Noesi. Here are some links for Monday, starting with a couple of notes related to the blockbuster swap…
- In this week’s edition of Ask BA, Jim Callis of Baseball America explains that he prefers Rangers right-hander Yu Darvish over Pineda in the long term. However, Pineda isn't far behind Darvish in Callis’ estimation.
- One scout says Noesi could be the "surprise piece" for the Mariners, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter).
- Jorge Posada will discuss his retirement at a press conference at Yankee Stadium tomorrow morning, the Yankees announced. News broke a couple of weeks ago that the long time backstop has decided to call it a career.
- Pita Rona, a 17-year-old New Zealand native, signed with the Orioles, TVNZ reports. Director of international operations David Stockstill and GM Dan Duquette confirmed the move. New Zealand has yet to produce a Major League player.
- The White Sox announced that they promoted former player and manager Buddy Bell to the role of VP, player development and special assignments.
- The first financial proposals to buy the Dodgers arrived over the weekend and the soft deadline for submissions is today, Yahoo’s Tim Brown tweets.
If the money is there, I’d take a gander at Darvish too. But at the current costs, Pineda’s looking pretty good.
Agreed. Plus Pineda has already had success in America; while it is true he will have to adjust to the pressure of NYC and the AL East, that’s minor compared to Yu’s learning curve.
AL East and a Hitters Park vs AL West and Pitchers Park
3/4….
AL East hitter park vs Japanese pitcher with language barrier, pitched off different types of mounds, different balls, different culture, different schedule, more travel, but yes for the most part, I agree the adjustment for Darvish will be far smoother than it will be for Pineda. Burp..
We all have to wait for the games to be played to find out.
This past season they actually used MLB issued balls in japan
Century, you are spot on, thanks for articulating these important points…I also read that Japanese pitchers do not pitch every 4-5 days but more like every 6-7…
Japan vs the major leagues, let alone a major hitter’s park in the majors, at a significantly higher cost.
Pineda 4.74 era in second half not exactly a lock there to be a winner in NY.
No it’s not a guaranteed winner. There’s major risks with either of them, and they both have good potential. Pineda may not have a good second half era, but Darvish hasn’t even put on a uniform yet and yet costs significantly more.
Like I said we all have to wait and see, and after all it isnt my money they are spending and the Rangers have 2 Billionaire owners so dont think they will eat spam for the length of the contract if he bombs.
Yep, absolutely have to wait and see. I’m just saying that I don’t think this discussion had anything to do with the Rangers. I saw it more as a pretty cost effective alternative the Yankees made rather than shelling out big bucks for essentially the same risks.
Jo Mel,
ALL MLB franchise owners are rich, that’s why they can afford to buy teams. OK, so when the billionaire Steinbrenner family spends big bucks on players for the Yankees they are vilified and fans cry foul, yet it’s OK for rich owners of other teams to do the same? And by the way, these expenses do trickle down eventually to the fans so it IS your money they are spending…!
Yeah, you can throw a dart at just about any pitcher’s second-half stats and find that they hit the “wall” late in the season, especially early in their career. In Justin Verlander’s first full season in 2006 (at age 23), his ERA over the last last two months was 5.82. And in c.c. Sabathia’s rookie year, his ERA for that same interval was…4.74.
Pineda is cheaper and younger. Pineda > Darvish
Darvish is BETTER. Darish > Pineda
You went to Japan to watch him?
Right now, that’s just a matter of baseless opinion. Darvish hasn’t pitched to a single live hitter yet. Potential is there for both of them, but at the fraction of the cost for Pineda. He’s already shown at a young age he can at least pitch.
I agree. Darvish and his 26-4 record in the majors the last 2 seasons along with that sub 3.00ERA has been fantastic..
Er..wait. who?
Pineda 4.74 second half era, youre right hes a LOCK to be a winner right.
Perfect opportunity to try out my baby talk.
Did I say he is a lock to be a winner? I was responding the commenter that seems to feel that Darvish is BETTER, without having much of a basis to make such a comment.
In all honesty watched Pineda last year Great Stuff but reminded me of a younger version of the rangers Ogando, probably would be better in the pen but if he figures a couple things out can dominate. I really liked the trade for the Yankees because of Campos great prospect.
The Mariners are crazy for putting Campos in the deal. A flat out flogging by the Yankees.
Who said he was a lock?
Good job tearing down that straw man…
I still don’t understand how they got Jose Campos with Pineda
Campos > Noesi
Yeah I think the Yanks got the better end of that deal, but Jesus is and always will be popular.
Depth
Campos was the Mariner’s fourth best pitching prospect and is miles down the road.
And guess what neither Pineda or Darvish are a dime a dozen. Good young pitching is hard to find. Regardless of which team you root for or against.
Why is a comparison even being made between Darvish and Pineda? I don’t see the connection between the two.
= Yankees. Sports writers have been a little light harping on them for a week or so.
I think it’s just evaluation based on cost and risk, being that the Yankees needed pitching but decided for a cheaper option, so they have to find ways to justify it.
I would take Wandy Rodriguez over Pineda and Darvish!
Thats to bad for you, because your the only one that would do that.
See Cherington.
Keep waving your magic Wandy and see if you cast a spell over the rest off us.
Alright Mr. Jeff Luhnow.
Well, that’s not a great comparison. Darvish or Pineda? One cost $110mm the other barely $1mm. 1 has pitched in the MLB, the other has not. The cheaper one is younger. Hmm, that type of high stress decision will make me lose my hair. Surprising to read that from one of the more respected baseball people. However considering everyone is nuts this day and age and no one, not a single writer will give the Yankees credit when due, this doesn’t surprise me at all. Wouldn’t the comparison have been a bit better with Gio Gonzalez, Latos, or even Trevor Cahill? Why single out Pineda? Whatever…
If the league minimum is $480K, does that mean you don’t think Pineda will be pitching in 2 years??
oi..with the moderation of comments.
I’ll speak in baby talk from here on out.
Pineda could end up being a great pitcher, but I’m not sure being counted on at age 23 as the #2 man in the Yanks rotation is the best way for him to get there. Last year he had to be limited to 171 innings by the M’s, and even at that his velocity and effectiveness were down in the second half of the year. What’s it going to be like in NY having to be counted on to pitch in high pressure September games and then (probably) deep into the playoffs? And also moving from a very forgiving ballpark in Safeco to one that is a relative HR bandbox, particularly to RF. I’m not sure the Yanks are going to get the “stud” they think they’re getting–at least not in 2012 (and maybe not even 2013).
The exact opposite risks are what the M’s took on for Montero. Rather than the risk of pitching in a high pressure atmosphere, they risk that he’s pretty much a DH and has almost no major league experience. Otherwise you’re taking a RH hitter in a hitter friendly park and moving him to a death zone for right handers.
That’s true, but whatever Montero does or doesn’t do, it will be in a low pressure environment. Pineda is expected to immediately shoulder a heavy workload for a team that could go far into the post season. That’s potentially a lot of innings and a lot of pressure on a 23 year old. And moving from a pitcher’s park to one that greatly favors hitters, it could be yet another factor that could mess with his development.
Pineda had a good year last year, but his ERA+ was only 103 and he really struggled post-ASG (5.12 ERA and 8 HR allowed in 58 IP vs. 3.03 and 10 HR allowed in 113 IP before).
I don’t disagree, as it’s part of the reason I think the trade was fair. It’s risky for both teams. Just saying the risks are evened out by the fact that he has no experience and is limited to being a dh. Plus with teams always looking for pitching, I think Pineda’s a bigger commodity to risk, especially with how badly the Yankees need pitching and how badly the M’s need hitting.
I think it was a trade both teams had to make. If the M’s get the second coming of Edgar Martinez, I’m sure they’d be more than happy to have “just a DH.” And if the Yankees get 5 years of 200+ IP/K, I think they’ll be happy as well. I think NY is shouldering more of the risk, because they need to have Pineda be great immediately, but because they’re the Yankees, if they’ve made a mistake they’ll just throw money out there to get another pitcher, so I’m not sure how much risk they are actually taking on.
But that’s exactly why I don’t think they’re risking that much because if he flops, they’ll find a replacement one way or another. If Montero flops, the M’s don’t have a whole lot of options.
To paraphrase, if Montero flops in the forests of the Pacific NW, would anybody notice?
Yes, a lot of people in Seattle and NY would notice. I understand the scrutiny Pineda’s under, but just because there’s more pressure doesn’t mean people won’t notice–especially how hyped he is.
From what I’ve read Safeco is death to RH pull hitters, and Montero primarily likes to go the opposite way with it. So, hopefully he won’t be affected as greatly by the switch.
Cant wait ’till pujols takes
darvish deep, dead center!
Pita Rona I hear a stipulation in contract is he cant live with his brother.
The AL East is going to eat Pita for lunch.
Ba-dum-dump.
Jim Callis is also leaving Campos out of the equation, and Campos could either become another valuable player on the Yankees or a key piece in a future trade. Even removing that, the final price of Darvish meant that the Yankees would be valuing Montero at around 70-80 millions right now (I’m removing what Montero would win in arbitration).
You’re projecting Montero to earn 30-40MM through arb?
I actually rounded up Darvish’s numbers at around 100 millions, so I’m proyecting that if he becomes a monster, he will earn around 20-30 millions on his arbitration years.