As the Brewers and Blue Jays engage in a slugfest, here's the latest from Miller Park…
- Brewers officials are telling other clubs that owner Mark Attanasio will be the one who ultimately decides if his team will be buyers or sellers at the trade deadline, reports CBS Sports' Danny Knobler. Of the Brewers' possible trade chips, Zack Greinke is seen as the least likely to be dealt. Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel notes that the Brewers could like to keep Greinke and they feel they wouldn't get full value for the ace "as a two-month rental" before Greinke hits free agency. (Both links go to Twitter)
- Also from Haudricourt, he looked back at the Brett Lawrie/Shaun Marcum trade as the Jays are in Milwaukee for an interleague series. Though Marcum may leave after this season as a free agent, Brewers GM Doug Melvin said he doesn't regret giving up a potential long-term star for a short-term gain of a playoff appearance. "We needed to get a pitcher of Shaun's caliber. He's done a great job for us," Melvin said. "You make trades and move on. You can't look back on them. Otherwise, you'll never make a trade."
The marcum/lawrie trade is a perfect example of win win for both teams. While the brewers didn’t win the world series, marcum helped get them in the playoffs and thats all you can as for.
on that note, I despise John Farrell.
“on that note, I despise John Farrell.”
What’d I miss?
his bullpen management is getting worse and worse. It’s getting extremely frustrating
trade you Bobby V, and Ellsbury for him and Joey Bats?
I’d rather have him than Eric Wedge, so you should be happy.
But if Greinke signs with a team with a protected pick, they might wish that they traded him for prospects. Plus their farm is awful. They need to replenish it.
If the Brewers trade Greinke for “prospects”, they won’t be contenders for at least 3 years. The starting staff will suffer a great deal. If they sign him they will stay in the mix in the National Leagues Central. No contender will trade a “prospect” projected to be a #1-type starter; that would be the kind of value that would make such a move worthwhile. They would like a top pitcher in return. A contender in this year’s pennant race would not want to give up the house; they would want someone to put them over the top.
Trading him would also not speak well of the Brewers’ commitment to their fans to be contenders; the lost revenue from a decreasing fan base would make a trade even less desirable.
On the other side of the coin, Greinke likes Milwaukee and Milwaukee likes him. He is thought of very highly by the coaching staff and front office. His record in home starts is awesome. He is 4-0 with a 1.08 ERA at home this year. Last year he was 11-0 with a 3.13 ERA at Miler Park. Why would anyone want to pitch anywhere else with those kind of numbers? (Remember Miller Park is also a “hitters” park.) Zack has clearly stated that he is very comfortable in Milwaukee and that has contributed to his success here.
If the Brewers can resign Greinke, they will have a top pitcher to anchor their staff for a long time. Zach is smart pitcher– a perfectionist– who continually tries to improve. He “learned” the cut fastball this Spring; that is a pitch that can extend the life of a pitcher’s career– he does not have to throw as hard to get out batters.
In short, the Brewers can get a great deal more by signing Greinke for four, five or six years– than by trading him for a hope and a dream called “prospects”.
I think Lawrie’s personality rubbed the Brewers the wrong way, and he may have had a more difficult time adjusting there. Toronto has fallen in love with him, and he really is a perfect fit for that team. I still feel though that Lawrie was a slight overpay for Marcum…
marcum was pitching like a #2 starter in the AL East. Pitchers like that don’t come cheap.
I don’t think you give up a prospect like Lawrie unless you’re getting an elite player back. Giving him up for a number three starter was kind of silly.
lawrie didn’t become an elite prospect until after the trade. he was merely a good prospect with the brewers, and you “give up on” those all the time for a pitcher like marcum
Not quite sure about that. He was more than good. He was their #1/#2 prospect. Not saying he was elite, but he was better than good.
Big fish, little pond. The Brewers farm was bleak, which made Lawrie their top prospect.
So bleak, they proceeded to move more prospects later to acquire Greinke when nobody believed they could. Organizational rankings are fun and all, but really…
he wasn’t top 50 for baseball america and was barely top 100 (#99) for baseball prospectus
i mean you agree that he’s not elite, but quibble that he was “more than good”? not sure i see the point. he’s been an elite prospect since he broke out with the jays last year and that’s how people talk about him, but marcum wasn’t traded for 2011 brett lawrie
it was a good trade for the brewers and a great trade for toronto
the reality is that so much of brett lawries now percieved elite status has come solely from his defense.
his bat, while heating up, is still lukewarm, but its his defense now that gives him the opportunity to become an elite player.
when the brewers had him, he was a average AT BEST defensive second baseman.
as far as i’m concerned he’s still a fantastic ‘prospect’. holding your own offensively in your first full season while playing great defense at third is nothing to scoff at
the problem was/is that people viewed him as a superhero after his 2012 hot streak. he was never likely to sustain that level of production, but toronto still has a already-valuable young player with room to develop into a great one
now if they could only get that rasmus kid going
have you checked up on rasmus lately?
since they moved him to 2 hole
he’s .338/.388./.758
obviously unsustainable (and small sample size of 81 Abs)
but still encouraging since its since a new approach and stance. I still hope he can get back to working more walks and get that obp up, but 1 thing at a time i guess
i think that was your first woosh. feels good
It was personality issues, coupled with no spot to play him in. In hindsight, with McGehee stinking up the joint at 3rd last year, and Weeks doing the same at second this year, yeah, it doesn’t seem like an exactly even trade… however: Can we wait to anoint Lawrie a superstar until he’s played even a full season? More than one would be good too. “Elite” is kin to hyperbole still, no?
… and hope it pans out better than the Sabathia deal. What did Cleveland really get? Brantley…? LaPorta has been a major disappointment thus far. further evidence that no one has a crystal ball.
^ Exactly you need a better deal for Greinke then the CC trade that was terrible for Cleveland
My point was that even a farm system as derided as the Brewers (these days) had more than enough talent in it to net them a number one pitcher in Greinke… and not just for three months, or even a year. Two years. The only real issue with the Brewers farm now is a lack of infield talent.You’ve got Gennett, and then a bunch of question marks. I recall the sentiment on these boards being similar after they dealt LaPorta. The term “gave up the farm” was bandied about. Looks to me like they gave up next to nothing in order to ride CC’s arm all the way to the playoffs for the first time in over a quarter century.
So are you telling me Braun, Fielder, Gallardo, Weeks, Hart, Escobar, and Hardy never panned out????? No Braun and Fielder are future HOF’s. Weeks, Gallardo, Hart, and Hardy were All Stars. Not to mention Thornburg, Jungmann, Bradley, Coulter, and Roache all look to have bright futures ahead of them in Milwaukee.
Moral of the story ^ ALL OF THESE PLAYERS WERE DRAFTED BY MILWAUKEE
your point seems to have been that it was not in fact bleak and as evidence you mention those trades. but that isn’t good evidence
a solid farm system could empty out that talent for those trades and have something left over. the brewers emptied it out and had absolutely nothing left. that’s because the system wasn’t very strong (i.e. was “bleak”)
they made good trades, sure. it was a good decision to empty the farm the way they did. but that’s not evidence of organizational depth or strength
I’m making mention of the fact that I read countless times that they had already “emptied the farm” on CC, and they wouldn’t have the players to get Greinke. I’m suggesting that organizational rankings are for entertainment value…