Cliff Lee is on waivers, but that doesn’t mean he’ll be traded or even claimed. Teams routinely place players on waivers in August, when waivers are revocable, as a way of gathering information. Here are today’s links…
- Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports explains why teams should be willing to pursue Lee despite what is perceived to be a down year for the veteran left-hander.
- The Dodgers should claim Lee and dare the Phillies to let him go for nothing, Dave Cameron of FanGraphs writes.
- Carlos Lee is on waivers, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (on Twitter). The Marlins considered moving Lee to the Yankees earlier this week, but he declined to approve the potential trade.
- The Rockies re-arranged their front office yesterday, but Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports is skeptical that the changes will really address the team's biggest concern: pitching.
I couldn’t agree more with Cameron. Magic, claim him. You guys can afford him, so worse case scenario, the Phillies pull him back. No harm, no foul.
I’d also say that the Phillies wouldn’t be getting “nothing” back if they let him go. They’d be getting a TON of salary relief, which has real value.
Can you imagine that? They already saved 15M with Pence, then with the contracts coming off the books that’s another 10M+, then if they just dumped Lee on the Dodgers there’s 87.5M. Haha 100M+ in cap space…
No it wouod be 25 extra for next year. That 87 is for 3 more years. They would have about 40 mill noext year when u add in all the raises players would get. But still that leaves alot of money, enough to sign either bourn or hamilton, then try for greinke. If they didnt want greinke which is understable, they could dish out alot less and get a brandon mccarthy or anibal sanchez for around 10 a yr maybe even less for mccarthy who is hurt alot. That would leave around 18-20 left to add another outfielder and sign a couple good bullpn pieces. Then add a cheap third basemen on a one yr deal that could spell freddy galvis or maybe even trade for chase headley. They would be a way better team if dodgers claimed him and they let him go. They wouldnt get that much salary relief if they brought him back and triedbto trade him. They definitely would be better off just letting him go. RAJ u better not mess this up if they claim him. Who cares about lees feelings…
You’re right, my bad but still that 25 million a year sure does make it easier to fix some of the holes they have.
There’s a cap in baseball?
Yeah I’m pretty sure every team has there own limit to what they won’t go over in other words a cap. That’s why team payrolls aren’t all 500 million. I didn’t think I had to go into detail about it but that clears it up for you right? Do you understand that now?
Comment won’t appear for some reason. Why did you have to make a post like that? I understood what he was trying to say. Do you make little posts like that just to get likes? Is that what gets you through your days? Come on, grow up.
Yeah that was a bit snarky on my part. Apologies.
technically there is, its not a true hard cap like in football where teams literally cannot go over, its a lot like basketballs “hard” cap. There is a set limit which teams can spend and if they go over they enter the luxury tax, in basketball teams cannot spend more than approx. 73 million per season, every dollar over that amount the team has to match and pay into a luxury tax, ex 5,000 over the team has to pay 5,000 in luxury tax, thus making that 5K over equal 10K total. I’m not sure if its the same in baseball, but there is a “cap” Its roughly 175 million perseason once a team goes over the “cap” they pay the luxury tax, which the newer CBa punishes teams harder for
Yeah, I doubt that any team would bite on Lee. But if one did, and the Phillies had any doubt about him at all, they’d be crazy not to let him go.
I’m pretty sure Carlos isn’t going to accept any trade to anyone. You want to unload him you’ll have to find a team not on his list. So glad he isn’t wasting oxygen in Houston anymore.
I think the Marlins should trade him to the worst destination of teams that he can be traded to, even if it means paying his whole salary and getting nothing in return, given that he clears waivers. Perhaps a team who has a lot of away games left and none in the state of Texas.
I understand that having the partial NTC was earned by Lee, but at the same time, it’s generally thought a player will waive it to go to a contender (especially considering this is Lee’s last year on the contract). Yet, he rejected the Dodgers and Yankees.
Why would Carlos Lee want to go to the Yankees and be a back-up? You answered why he wouldn’t right in your own post, it’s the last year of his contract and his next contract will be worth more if he stays being a starter. He can go sign for a contender next year and make a lot more money then he would after being a 2 month bench rental on the Yankees or Dodgers.
He’s been less than impressive in his stint with the Marlins. Unless he would post a crazy stat line like 1.000+ OPS in the final two months of the season, I don’t think it’s going to change his value in the offseason very much.
You’re looking at a DH who will probably post a .750 OPS next year who is only willing to consider a few clubs, neither of which help his value much.
The Astros are paying almost all of Lee’s salary. But reportedly, the Marlins were asking for $2.5 million from potential Lee trading partners even though they’re paying him less than $.5 million.
Just goes to show what the Marlins really care about.
Here’s what I want to know: Does he have to approve if somebody claims him on waivers? If, say, the Yankees claim him and the Marlins go “fine, take him”–ie, they don’t actually trade him–does he end up on the Yankees without his approval? I could see it happening, honestly.
Essentially it’s a “no move” clause, so Yankees would still need his approval.
See the Cliff Lee thread from the afternoon, I posted some details on this subject there.
Rockies just rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic.
I would love, even as a die hard Red Sox fan, to see the Dodgers do that. What now Ruben?
Let the Dodgers take him. Use the money to go after Greinke.
Greinke in Philadelphia? That probably isn’t the best place for a fragile psyche.
I’d be worried about him in Philadelphia… it’s not a very fun place to be when you or the team isn’t doing well.
Trade a 25M pitcher and acquire a 20M pitcher who’s had anxiety problems. Seems legit.
What now? Give us your best prospects or we just pull him back. That’s what.
I have a hard time picturing Lee getting as far as the Dogers in the waiver process. More likely than not, AZ claims him one spot sooner. He has an NLC for AZ, but by them claiing him, it keeps him off the Dodgers.
Except the Diamondbacks are one of the teams on his no trade clause.
Exactly … They run little risk of Phils dumping salary bc Lee probably won’t waive NTC and at the same time, block LA.
But, can they afford it if the Phillies just dumps him?
If AZ put in a claim on him and Philly just cut him loose to dump his salary, things get ugly. He certainly can exercise his NTC, but I don’t know how that effects being cut by a team. However, if it were to go down that way, AZ would pay up to have him. He’s had a brutal year, but his record is no indication of his actual pitching.
It would almost certainly mean that Kennedy walks in 2 years, and maybe even Hudson. But the Dbacks have the ability to absorb the contract. It will just never happen.
No-trade clause = no-move clause, basically. It’s something of a misnomer. Certainly they could RELEASE him if they wanted (they don’t :P), but they can’t send him specifically to any of the 21 teams on his list without his position.
Given that, I don’t know why everyone seems to think AZ wouldn’t claim him.
Dodgers will get him they need a second starter and he has WS experience thats what we need
The Phillies aren’t giving him up for nothing… it would make absolutely no sense. Sure salary relief, but he’s a strong bounce back candidate for next year.
The Dodgers can claim Ryan Howard if they want to though.
I believe you’re probably right, but the thought of being able to get out of that contract before it turns bad has to be appealing for a rebuilding team.
I wouldn’t say the Phillies are trying to rebuild. I think Amaro realized all the bad contracts he gave to players who just aren’t the same players as they were when the Phils won and now he’s just trying to get rid of some of them, while still being able to get value for those guys. They’ll still be competitive in my mind going into next year.
Lee isn’t that bad of a contract though for a team that can afford it. 3 year commitment going forward? He hasn’t been bad this year at all.
I would take howard with the Dodgers in a heartbeat. Slide Hanley up the 2 spot and let howard hit 5
Ugh, I want to replace Loney, but paying him $105 million AFTER this year isn’t exactly appealing. I guess if money really means nothing to the new ownership then you go for it, but don’t see it…
Yeah I don’t see it happening either. But there really aren’t any other power first baseman out there who aren’t locked up long term. but we’ll see
Morneau would be worth a waiver claim.
He’s a strong bounce back candidate to be worth 12-15 mill next year, not 25.
You’re joking right? He’s an Ace and he’s paid like one.
He’s a former ace.
In a down year, he’s setting a career high in ground ball %, has a 1.7% bb/9 (which is almost exactly the same as last year), and a 8.5% k/9 (which is the 2nd highest of his career). The only real thing that stands out is his home run rate’s gone up this year, which is more than likely the result of some bad luck.
I don’t understand what numbers point to him being a former ace… He’s overpaid slightly but they underpaid for him last year.
For a comparison, Clayton Kershaw has a 2.6 bb/9 and a 8.6 k/9.
I really can’t see them getting anything and hoping someone..Anyone claims him, even though other than hamels he might be the best of the bad long term contracts they have. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see them put Holliday on waivers if lee clears, trying to move 1 of the 20m AAV pitchers, Howards and utley are givens to go on the wire, but they will clear and not saying this to be disrespectful.
If Lee clears, can see an outside chance some team bites on Holliday. his 20m for next season and possible vest on 2014 if he goes 220IP in 2014 make it sort of enticing, but don’t think he would draw anything in exchange either other than relief.
Philly already moved the 2 they could get pieces for in Pence and Victorino , **maybe** Papelbon if they paid a fair portion of his salary, but hate to see him moved, same with Rollins the fan favorite.
Halliday’s option won’t vest, he needs to pitch 415 innings in 2012-13, as well, per cot’s.
Cots also shows 225IP only in 2013 for his option to vest. It’s not plain as to whether or not both the 225ip in 2013 and 415 combined in 2013-2014 are combined factors, but yeah.. I looked before posting above.
That’s odd. I haven’t checked it in awhile, but I know they used to have the 415 IP for 2012-13.
I’d post the link, but it would get rejected, but Phillies beat writer, Todd Zolecki had an article with the following:
Halladay agreed to a club-friendly, three-year, $60 million contract extension from the Phillies before they acquired him from the Toronto Blue Jays in December 2009. The deal included a $20 million vesting option for 2014 that was not easy to reach even before he got hurt. The option says Halladay must reach each of the following criteria: throw 415 innings in 2012-13, 225 innings in 2013 and not finish 2013 on the disabled list. (MLB website – Injury likely to cost Doc lucrative vesting option, 6/3/12)
There is no such thing as “unbeatable” in baseball, but the Dodgers claiming Lee and getting him would put them about as close to unbeatable as a team could possibly be, the way I see it. The only weak links remaining would be Uribe off the bench and Loney at first, but those would be easily overcome now.
You trust that rotation after Kershaw?!
Edit: My bad, I thought you meant Carlos Lee. Yeah, Kershaw and Cliff Lee would be the best 1/2 in the game.
Yeah, I guess I should have made that clear, sorry.
AZ can block the Dodgers even though Lee can block AZ from actually aquiring him. It makes sense for the Diamondbacks to do so because Lee won’t go there and they won’t be on the hook for his remaining salary. Lee will 99% stay a Phillie.
Lee would probably just block the claim anyway
If he somehow falls to the whitesox, dont be surprised at all to see Kenny Williams claim him, Either a trade of brent morel, tyler saladino, simon castro, and nestor molina, OR just take it as a straight claim
Reinsdorf doesn’t mind spending money on pitchers but he usually is reluctant to give long duration contracts to pitchers and
this may qualify
The Tigers should claim him. Illytch can pay that contract and would if it meant his team winning it this season. He’s not worth Castellanos with that contract, but other solid prospects of the Tigers could likely be had and Porcello could be a buy-low candidate for Philly. Cliff Lee also fits the Tigers’ 2-3 year window of contention they have right now. Plus a Tigers’ playoff rotation looks really good
Verlander, Lee, Sanchez, Scherzer/Fister
The only GM with the Cahones to claim Lee is Kenny Williams (see Alex Rios contract). The reason it would make sense for the Sox is that Peavy’s 18-20 Million is coming off the books this year, would not be major cost upgrade.