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Royals Notes: Zimmer, Beltran, Sveum

By Mark Polishuk and charliewilmoth | October 27, 2014 at 9:33am CDT

After last night’s Game Five loss, the Royals have now faced a 3-2 deficit in all three of the franchise’s World Series appearances.  In 1980, K.C. was eliminated by the Phillies in Game Six and in 1985, the Royals (who were actually down 3-1) came back to defeat the Cardinals and win the Series.  While we wait for Tuesday night’s game, here are some items from Kansas City…

  • Top Royals prospect Kyle Zimmer has left the Arizona Fall League with a shoulder issue and will see Dr. David Altchek, ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick tweets. MLB.com ranks Zimmer the No. 2 prospect in the Royals organization and the No. 47 prospect in the game. Baseball America, meanwhile, ranked Zimmer No. 26 overall in its midseason list. Zimmer had opened eyes in the AFL, with ESPN’s Keith Law writing (Insider-only) that Zimmer and the Pirates’ Tyler Glasnow were the best pitching prospects he’d seen. Zimmer missed most of the 2014 season with shoulder troubles, so his current issues aren’t new.
  • The Royals heavily pursued Carlos Beltran last offseason and offered the veteran slugger a three-year deal with a fourth-year option, Joel Sherman of the New York Post writes.  Kansas City’s offer would also have paid Beltran more than the $45MM he received from the Yankees on a straight three-year deal.  (Last winter, ESPN’s Buster Olney noted that state tax differences between Missouri and New York would’ve meant Beltran would’ve taken home more money with the Royals’ contract, even if the total dollar value was less than $45MM.)  In the end, however, Beltran ended up signing with the Yankees because, in part, he playing for a big-market team would help his chances for the Hall of Fame.
  • Royals hitting coach (and former Cubs manager) Dale Sveum is still interested in managing, Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times writes. “I’m not holding my breath. It’s just the nature of the beast,” he says. “If somebody calls, they call.” Sveum says he doesn’t worry about having lost the Cubs job now that he’s in the World Series with Kansas City. “It definitely doesn’t hurt,” he says. “We all do this for this, no matter what capacity you’re in.”
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Kansas City Royals New York Yankees Carlos Beltran Kyle Zimmer

Left-hander Kwang-Hyun Kim To Be Posted
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AL East Notes: Markakis, Cespedes, Hamels
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54 Comments

  1. MB923

    11 years ago

    “Beltran ended up signing with the Yankees because, in part, he playing
    for a big-market team would help his chances for the Hall of Fame.”

    Assuming these are his words, I think Carlos is completely wrong here. If he wanted to say he wanted to play for the Yankees because at the time they looked like more of a playoff/championship team than KC, that’s one thing. But as far as market size goes, that’s completely irrelevant

    For one thing, the Indians and Pirates have more HOFers than the Red Sox, Phillies and Dodgers. The Giants (23) have the most and 7 more than the 2nd place team (Yankees, 16). And 24 if you include Bonds. Not saying San Fran is a small market but it’s far from the biggest.

    Reply
    • Andy Mo.

      11 years ago

      Beltran isn’t going to the HOF. Mediocre batting this year, and the following two years are going to be awful.

      Reply
      • MB923

        11 years ago

        I didn’t say he is a HOFer, but I don’t think choosing NY over KC would increase his chances. He’s about a 1-2 WAR player now at the age of 37. I think most of the BBWAA HOF votes know by now whether he should be in the HOF or not.

        For the record I’d vote no also. Hall of Very Good.

        Reply
        • chris hines

          11 years ago

          Actually he was a about a -0.2 to -0.5 WAR player now at age 37. Now he might be able to rebound some but considering he is either going to provide awful defensive value or absolutely none at all if he DH’s I’d be surprised to ever see him posta 2 WAR again.

          Reply
      • peregrintook69

        11 years ago

        I could convince myself to vote in Beltran, but only if we assume that Jim Rice is the floor for the HoF now. Typically we consider a Don Drysdale/David Cone like pitcher and Willie Stargell/Joe Gordon type player (all of these are ~60 bWAR) to be the floor for the HoF. Beltran has…. 67.5!? Maybe we should reconsider since his peers in bWAR are Eddie Murray and Ernie Banks.

        Reply
      • rct 2

        11 years ago

        You maybe shouldn’t be judging his HoF candidacy on one season and on two others that haven’t even occurred yet.

        Reply
    • Sky14

      11 years ago

      San Francisco is a pretty big market and that franchise was in New York for more than 70 years.

      Reply
      • MB923

        11 years ago

        That’s true, though it includes Oakland in its metro area and nobody calls the A’s a large market team (and they aren’t). Good point about the New York Baseball Giants though.

        Reply
        • Vandals Took The Handles

          11 years ago

          When the Giants and A’s go head to head on TV in the Bay area, the Giants outrank 7-1 – and that has been going on for well over a decade.

          There is no comparison at all in the way the area follows the 2 teams.

          Reply
          • MB923

            11 years ago

            I never compared the teams. All I said was Oakland is included in the SF Bay Area market (as is San Jose).

            As a metropolitan area, the Bay Area is 5th in population. The city of San Francisco however is only ranked 14th.

            Reply
            • Vandals Took The Handles

              11 years ago

              I think the point is that players on teams that are followed nationally such as the Giants, are perceived by the public and the national media in a much more favorable light then those that play in KC, Oakland, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Phoenix,etc. – unless it’s a team like the Big Red Machine or the Swingin’ A’s that contend for a period of years.

              Reply
              • MB923

                11 years ago

                Fair enough 🙂

                Reply
        • Sky14

          11 years ago

          Oakland probably does draw a bit from SF but they clearly are playing on a different level which is reflected by their payrolls.

          I think it is difficult to just look at the number of representatives a team had in the HOF because some of them may have played in a big market for part of their career but went in under the club they played for most of their career. I think a player considered in the “Hall of Very Good” can gain more recognition if they play very well on a big market club (especially, to your point, if they are winning) even it is only for a couple seasons because the media exposure those clubs receive and thus get Hall of Fame status.

          Reply
        • LazerTown

          11 years ago

          There is a big wealth difference though. Oakland is like nys Newark.

          Reply
  2. Christopher A. Otto

    11 years ago

    Would have been interesting to see how Beltran would have changed the chemistry of this year’s Royals. …. Would they have been better? I’m assuming he would have been the full-time DH, taking ABs from Butler. (Maybe even Butler gets traded). … A Butler/Beltran DH platoon, however, would have been really interesting and potentially effective.

    Reply
    • MB923

      11 years ago

      No way the Royals would have signed Beltran to platoon the DH spot.

      Reply
      • riso30

        11 years ago

        He would have been in place of Aoki, which would have been a huge improvement.

        Reply
        • Colin Christopher

          11 years ago

          How, exactly, would Beltran have been a huge improvement over Aoki in RF this year?

          Reply
          • riso30

            11 years ago

            Defensively, probably not. With the bat, yes. He would have given more options for LH bat at DH. Against a RH pitcher, you put Dyson in CF, move Cain to Right, Butler sits, and Beltran DH. Against LH Pitcher, Beltran in Right, Butler DH, and Cain in Center. Defense takes a small hit, but did you WATCH the cartoons going on with Aoki on the field this year?

            Reply
            • Vandals Took The Handles

              11 years ago

              Aoki had a very good offensive year. He got big hits, worked pitchers and set the table. Him not playing in SF has hurt the Royals offense.

              Reply
              • riso30

                11 years ago

                Nori is 0-8 in the World Series. The absence of his bat in the WS is not hurting them. He had good splits against lefties during the regular season, but during the post season, he is batting .200. ALSO, I am not saying that Aoki didn’t have his moments ever, but I think Beltran would have been an upgrade on offense. Tell me this, would you pay to bring back Nori, or would you rather have someone else in right?

                Reply
                • rct 2

                  11 years ago

                  Carlos Beltran was sub-replacement level this season. Nori was a better overall player. Citing eight ABs in the WS doesn’t change this. Beltran would have been a downgrade this season.

                  Reply
  3. Alvaro

    11 years ago

    It is well documented that Beltran always wanted to play for the Yankees. I don’t know where the HoF angle came from.

    Reply
    • start_wearing_purple

      11 years ago

      Ever since he signed with the Mets and probably even before then Beltran has been talking about getting into the HoF.

      Reply
    • MB923

      11 years ago

      Beltran has been in the HOF discussion for a while. Since 1950 he’s 23rd among all OFer in WAR. He’s ahead of other guys with HOF numbers such as Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa, Andre Dawson, Vlad Guerrero, Ichiro….and the extremely overrated HOFer Jim Rice.

      Reply
  4. kfifkfkfj

    11 years ago

    Beltran is not getting into the Hall of Fame with those numbers. No chance. Maybe if he didn’t have so many injuries…

    Reply
  5. digitalian

    11 years ago

    Beltran in the HOF? I don’t see any chance of that. If he had started his career in New York perhaps he would have had a chance but since the first 6 years of his career, some of his best years, were performed in the obscurity of KC I can’t see it happening

    Reply
    • start_wearing_purple

      11 years ago

      Even if Beltran started his career in NY, all else being equal, his numbers would still be the same. We’d still be saying his numbers aren’t good enough for the Hall.

      Reply
      • chris hines

        11 years ago

        If you believe in just transplanting numbers into a different scenario exactly as they are, which isn’t really realistic.

        Reply
    • rct 2

      11 years ago

      I don’t really understand this sentiment nor the above one about him having better chances to make the HoF in a big market. Playing for the Mets in New York actually hurt his chances, imo, because the NY media was very brutal to him for supposedly not living up to his contract for the Mets. They were wrong, but I think he still gets viewed in that light. If he’d played his entire career in KC and put up those numbers, I think he’d be viewed a little better.

      Reply
  6. MB923

    11 years ago

    WAR leaders from 1950 – 2014 among OFers

    23rd – Beltran (63.2)
    25th – Gary Sheffield (62.4)
    28th – Sammy Sosa (60.3, easily a HOFer without PED suspicion).
    30th – Andre Dawson (59.5, a HOFer)
    34th – Vlad Guerrero (56.5, many say who is a HOFer)
    36th – Ichiro (55.3, easily a HOFer)
    45h – Jim Rice (50.8, an actual HOFer who IMO shouldn’t be one, but it is what it is)

    And again for the record, I wouldn’t vote Beltran in, but Sheffield and Sosa are in without the PED links, Vlad will likely get in, Ichiro is a shoe in, and Andre Dawson and Jim Rice are already in.

    Reply
    • Vandals Took The Handles

      11 years ago

      He had some sensational post-season games. Tremendous ability – an honest 5-tool player. Had some good years as well. Great guy, sometimes a very good leader. Not a HOF’er.

      Reply
      • MB923

        11 years ago

        Completely agree

        Reply
    • rct 2

      11 years ago

      I’d vote for him. He still has a few seasons to potentially add to his numbers but even now, I think he should be in. By traditional numbers, he’ll probably end up with over 400 HR, 500 doubles, 1500 RBI, 2500 hits, and 300 SB. Factor in his once stellar defense (gold gloves), his postseason performances, his very high SB% (I’m not sure if he’s still got the record on that but I know he once did), 10 All-Stars, a ROY, and I think even by traditional measures, he’s a HoF.

      He’s also, like you’ve noted, pushing 70 career WAR. Then again, I’m an inclusive type person when it comes to the HoF.

      Reply
    • start_wearing_purple

      11 years ago

      There really isn’t an indicator with WAR and even if there was it seems questionable that you could use it beyond the top 10 list.

      In the list you can also find:
      13) Larry Walker – Last HoF ballot (his 4th) 10.2%
      15) Andruw Jones – Questionable to get into the Hall
      18) Tim Raines – Last HoF (his 7th) 46.1%
      19) Dwight Evans – Out in his 3rd ballot.
      21) Reggie Smith – Out in his first ballot
      22) Jim Edmonds – Unlikely to get into the Hall.

      Saying Beltran is #23 in WAR among OF since 1950 just ultimately doesn’t make a case for him either way.

      Reply
      • MB923

        11 years ago

        Oh I understand, I’m just pointing out that his value has been worth as much if not more than other guys in the hall or other guys with HOF numbers.

        I was surprised to see Walker as 13th actually.

        Reply
        • chris hines

          11 years ago

          Well he did play in without a doubt the greatest offensive park of all time for 9 full seasons.

          Reply
      • chris hines

        11 years ago

        How is Andruw Jones in the question for the HOF?

        Reply
        • MB923

          11 years ago

          10 gold gloves (call them meaningless all you want but voters look at this), over 430 HR’s, I wouldn’t vote him in though but he’s up there with Beltran.

          Reply
  7. Mikenmn

    11 years ago

    Tremendous irony for Beltran, who would have gone to the post-season this year with KC, and ended up really devaluing himself in NY. On the other hand, one could have made the argument that if Beltran had performed as was projected, perhaps the Yankees, with all of their issues, might have snuck in. Beltran was below replacement value, and It’s reasonable to assume the Yankees thought they would get closer to 3 WAR. Beltran needs to recover and put up more in the last two years of his contract if he’s ever going to go beyond being thought of as a marginal candidate. I know the stats crowd likes his WAR and his body of work, but I think the rest of the voters are a little more lukewarm

    Reply
    • sergio

      11 years ago

      I was thinking the exact same thing; and also its funny that he snubbed the royals thinking they werent going anywhere, and he’s watching them on tv in the world series

      Reply

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