Alan Nero, Joe Maddon’s agent, discussed how his client left the Rays for the Cubs in an interview with Jim Bowden and Jim Duquette (audio link) on MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM. Nero negotiated with the Rays for five or six days before Maddon opted out of his contract, a decision Maddon reached since Tampa didn’t want to make him one of baseball’s five highest-paid managers. Maddon was willing to take below-market value to stay but the Rays’ offer was “so far from reality that it just didn’t make sense” for Maddon to accept, according to Nero. Theo Epstein wouldn’t speak to Maddon until he had written proof of the opt-out and permission from the Commissioner’s office, and Nero considers it “a bit insulting” that the Rays would suspect tampering took place.
Here’s some more from around the AL East…
- Rival teams could be interested in the Orioles’ catching depth, MASNsports.com’s Roch Kubatko opines. Despite the presence of Caleb Joseph, Steve Clevenger and a number of young backstops in the minors, the team is still interested in bringing back veteran Nick Hundley. Kubatko speculates that Chris Tillman’s improved performance with Hundley behind the plate could be a factor in why Hundley could return.
- Mutual interest exists between the Yankees and Chase Headley, though Alex Rodriguez’s presence and Pablo Sandoval’s price tag remain obstacles to a signing, George A. King III of the New York Post writes. Sandoval’s next deal will set the bar for free agent third basemen, with Headley possibly poised to benefit as arguably the second-best 3B on the open market this winter.
- For the record, King doesn’t think the Yankees are exploring signing Sandoval, though “it is hard to ignore what the Giants third baseman has done in the postseason.”
- The Red Sox have been hesitant to sign hugely expensive contracts in recent years and, of course, spending is no guarantee of success. With so many offseason needs, however, Brian MacPherson of the Providence Journal thinks the team may be more open to one or more big contracts.
Tillman had a FIP over 4 and the lowest strike out rate since he became a full time starter a few years ago. I wouldn’t bring Hundley back based purely on the direction Tillman is trending.
But would you bring yourself back Jim, that is the question…
Joseph had his 15 minutes. I’d be content to not see him on the major league roster in the future. So is Clevenger or Hundley the best backup to Weiters, assuming Weiters is ready to start the season with the team?
Joseph is exactly what you want in a backup catcher. He’s going to make 500k and plays really good defense. That’s want you want in the person that plays for your starter every 4 or so days. Especially for team like the Orioles. You want to pay Hundley how much to play once a week?
If Nero’s recitation is in fact what happened, then there’s no case at all for tampering. Of course, that might not be the whole story.
Both Theo and Alan Nero have said things about this process that are extremely easy for MLB to verify. Though they’re not 100% definitive, they are either the most clever tamperers in the history of the world or the whole thing is an extra large serving of sour grapes.
The Red Sox probably should have filed tampering charges with MLB when Theo was in limbo. The timeline didn’t make sense. The Cubs had been talking to the Theo loop for awhile from what I have heard. If the Rays can prove anything they should go after the tampering charges. It just sets a real bad precedent when these guys don’t have honor their contracts and can move around like free agents whenever they want. If MLB would send Kris Bryant to the Rays as a penalty these backroom deals would stop real quick.
the Sox had granted permission to the Cubs to speak to him for ‘a player to be named later’. The two teams seemed to have very different ideas about the value of that player, but that’s what got contentious. If they’d have filed tampering charges they’d have been laughed out of the building.
And Maddon did honor his contract. The clause agreed to in advance by the Rays was Maddon was free to leave if Friedman did. The Rays might not like that he exercised it… but they agreed to it when he signed his last extension.
The only message MLB would be sending by penalizing the Cubs is that the clubs themselves don’t have to honor their agreements with managers and that managers have no free agency rights in their eyes.
The only way the Rays are getting anything is if they have proof the Cubs were negotiating with Maddon before he opted out. short of that, they’re entitled to nothing.
If tampering took place, there would be no reason the agent would even know about it. He could have done the due diligence oblivious to what was happening between Maddon and someone speaking for the Cubs.
The agent is the person who negotiates the deal and not many clients move without their agents in the loop.
the agent doesn’t get paid if he doesn’t negotiate the deal. You think Nero’s gonna defend a client who goes behind his back this vigorously? IF that’s the way it went down he was just as cheated as the Rays.
It seems like it wouldn’t take between five or six days to determine you weren’t in the same ballpark for your contract extension discussions.
Usually when they’re “so far from reality” you’re not going to sit there and continue to negotiate. I’m with you, not sure why it took Maddon/Nero a full week to opt out. I would think that Nero seeing what’s out there as possible options for his client is a plausible suspicion.
I’m pretty sure Lester’s camp ended the negotiations right quick when the Red Sox hit him with the 4 years 70 million offer. If nothing else pride gets in the way of continuing to negotiate if you’re that far apart.
True indeed. Strong suspicion some back channels took place. What the Cubs did in the end was very aggressive and not something Maddon’s camp could have taken for granted. But back channels are very hard to prove, and I don’t think the Rays can.
Unless Maddon really wanted to stay and gave the Rays every chance to make it right.
So let me get this straight. It’s fishy that Maddon negotiated so long and it’s also fishy that the Cubs negotiated so quickly?
No. If there are two parties that are obviously nowhere near coming to an agreement, I doubt they discuss it for 5 or 6 days. There’s hardly a point.
Maddon worked for the Rays, for what? 10 years? You think trying to work out a deal for a couple of extra days is out of line? Wouldn’t it be stranger if he bolted sooner?
Id like to see Headley come back, but I think Prado plays 3rd while A-Rod splits at 1st and DHs. Then Refsnyder plays 2nd
I’m hoping that Ref starts in the minors, because then that means they actually have depth this year.
True, resigning Headley would add more depth to the infield. If he does get resigned, Prado starts at 2nd and Ref arrives for the eventual injury
I guess I missed the part where Maddon lead the Rays to the WS. Or how a losing record, 19 games back in the division is in line for a raise and not a dismissal.
Because you can only be classed a good manager if your team makes it to the Fall Classic, and, not forgetting, failure to win your division yearly with by far the lowest payroll team is definitely, absolutely, a cause for dismissal.
Right on brother!
I am pretty sure the Rays were supposed to be competitive this season. But I guess payroll is how you win and make the playoffs. Right Yankees and Red Sox?
How many teams with better records fired their manager?
None of the managers fired lately have the track record of Maddon.
2014 was Maddon and the Rays’ first losing season since 2007.
It also broke a streak of 4 straight years of 90-win baseball.
I think he has an inherent pass on last year, especially win you consider the losses sustained by his pitching staff, and the offense leaving most men LOB in the major leagues.
How many teams had managers that had previous win totals the six seasons before of…
97, 84, 96, 91, 90, 92?
There were several extenuating circumstances this year in the Rays struggles, Moore being out all year, losing their best hurler Price before the trade deadline, numerous other key injuries, yet they still finished only 8 games under .500, hardly a disastrous campaign.
Payroll is of course not directly linear with getting in the playoffs, but achieving what they have for a long time now with the divisions lowest payroll is nothing short of incredible, hence Friedman is now running the Dodgers and getting $30m for the privilege and Maddon will earn $25m from the Cubs.
They have both more than earned it.
something is kinda fishy with the whole Maddon/Cubs thing.
Why?
I don’t think it has to be, sure he gave up guaranteed money, but it was only $1.85MM for next year. The top managers are making $4-5MM and many in the game consider him a great manager.
It was pretty obvious that if he opted out a higher paid offer would be out there, not to mention Tampa will be going into a rebuild, do you want to be there for that?
If that’s the case then who should we get for SS? Drew, Cabrera, or Lowrie? We could also sign Hanley for 3rd and and place Prado at short or trade for a SS.
Drew/Cabrera/Lowrie are all adequate for shortstop depending on the contract, and Headley/Hanley are fine at 3B, also depending.
There are so many options, I just don’t think there is one that pops out as the one the Yankees will sign. I would just start with the free agents and have your offers out there to all different players. Sure Lowrie isn’t the best, but there is a price where it’s fine.
I’m not a fan of the trades out there. They range from emptying the farm system with Castro, to Alexei/Rollins which are fine players, but they are only 1 year stopgaps, cost $10MM as it is, and frankly aren’t any better than the free agents on the market.
I would really be interested in Hanley, but it’s one of those things where you just have to start negotiations with him and see what contract he is looking for.
I see the Yankees going after or signing Headley. If for whatever reason the two parties can’t come to an agreement I think Refsnyder is the fall back option. with Refsnyder playing 2nd and Prado 3rd. If that turns out to be the case the Yankees need to go big time after a “bat” for shortstop.
I could see the Red Sox going after and signing Shields to say a 4 year guaranteed deal for $20MM AAV. That fits into their wheelhouse of not giving out 6 or 7 year deals or 9 figure contracts. I can also see them making a push for Sandoval or even Aramis Ramirez if he declines his portion of the option with the Brewers. We’ll see true FA is about to begin in just a couple of days.
Giants are going to wrap up Sandoval. I’d be shocked if they don’t, especially if Ramirez stays with the Brewers. That would only leave Headley and there will be a ton of competition for him (and he’s not half the player Panda is).
I’d be shocked as well if Sandoval signed somewhere other then with the Giants. But you never know and stranger things have happened. I disagree about Headley not being half the players Sandoval is. Granted Sandoval is better but I’m not sure he’s roughly $25 to $30MM better over a 4 or so year deal. That’s just my opinion.
Definately agree with you, Sandoval is the better player but, only on the offensive side of things plus, it’s still possible that Headley could turn things around and end up being almost as good as Sandoval, for or even less money. Also, I hope to god my Red Sox don’t sign Shields to be the ace, IMO he will have problems playing under the spotlights of fans plus, I don’t think his repertoire is great for Fenway. I’d definitely rather have Lester or Scherzer, even for the steeper price, they’ll both be aces much longer. Shields probably has one or two years left as a no.1.
I think in this market if the Sox sign a FA it’s going to be Shields. But I’m not counting them out on trying to swing a trade for possibly Hamels or maybe even Cueto of the Reds.
I don’t know that Hamels is as good of a fit as everyone is making him out to be. The Sox have said that Betts and Bogaertz are not going anywhere, and I doubt they want to give up both Owens and Swihart which is what RAJ is asking
I would have to disagree with you about Hamels, he’s as good as there is. The same about Cueto. The thing is either player is going to cost the Red Sox or for that matter any team a lot in a trade.
I wouldn’t put to much credence in what a GM says about a player or players being “untouchable”. A lot of that is just positioning/posturing, everyone is available under the right circumstances. And as you well know the Red Sox need an ace plus in their starting rotation.
Who do you see Scherzer going too? IMO, I see Lester going to the Cubs but, I can’t see why people are predicting Scherzer to go to the Yankees. It just doesn’t seem like a move they’d make this offseason plus, their budget is better spent elsewhere, I think. For these reason, I don’t know why people think this as realistic, I just think the Red Sox have a better chance than the Yankees (and that’s what I hope too!).
Honestly I think IF he doesn’t stay with the Tigers I could see see him in Dodgers blue or maybe an outside chance with the Angels. We;ll find out in the next couple of months at the latest. I do NOT think either the Yankees or the Red Sox go after Scherzer.
Yeah, I’d say you’re right, just hoping the Sox don’t go after Shields :l
I do put stock into multiple sources saying RAJ is asking for an arma and a leg on Hamels, and I would hope Ben is smart enough to stick to his guns and not fork over the upper tier of our farm
Amaro probably is or will be asking for at least a 2 elite prospects probably one major league ready player and one lower tier player. And when you think about it not counting Hamels vesting option you get 4 years of Hamels for about $90MM that’s considerably less expensive in both years and dollars than either Scherzer or Lester will cost. And the years and dollars due Hamels are well within the Sox comfort level.
I don’t know if the Sox will go after Hamles or not but you have to give up something to get something especially when that something is an elite starting pitcher like Hamels.
Or keep the prospects and spend money on a pitcher that is proven in your market… I understand the hesitancy to spend big but it won’t last long unless Henry wants to sell the team. Boston is too critical of a market for this approach to have sustained success
We’ll see over the course of the next 60 to 90 days. Personally I think Lester will be wearing a Cubs uniform starting in 2015. Obviously both Lester and Epstein have history and the Cubs have money to spend. I also think the Cubs need to make a splash in FA with their recent manager hiring. Just a guess on my part but I think it’s going to take 6 years guaranteed / $140MM to sign Lester. Is that something the Sox are comfortable with? We’ll see.
I hope so, I too see the Cubs signing Lester, but I hope we are both wrong and the Sox loosen up the purse strings again, because this team can handle an overpaid vet if it means 3-4 years of an ace
I agree with you about the occasional over pay in either years or dollars should be something the Sox are willing to do. Especially after last year.
Hopefully this puts all those baseless tampering accusations to bed once and for all…
Nobody has accused the Cubs.
Their has only been speculation, rightfully so, regarding the suspicious departure of Maddon, considering he made a comment declaring himself “a Ray for life” just a week before he and the team began extension talks.
Logically, money has the power to change that mindset fast, especially if you are lowballed like Maddon claimed he was.
This is where the suspicions arise however :
1) If money was the primary issue of not signing an extension, why would he become a FA with only 1 team with a managerial vacancy.
2) The reports initially described the Rays offer as being in excess of 3 million per year (making Maddon a top 5 paid manager), yet Maddon and his agent claim that the Rays barely surpassed 2 million per year. Many, even outside the Rays camp, see this as a significant discrepancy.
3) Why would Maddon meet exclusively with the Cubs if his departure from Tampa Bay was motivated by money. You would think he would test the waters with EVERY team interested to see who would offer the most, then make a decision. Especially if his agent was dealing with 4-5 teams as he described.
4) Respected sportswriters and baseball executives, neutral to the Rays, have expressed their suspicions. Many the exact day Maddon opted out.
At the end of the day, the Rays haven’t released a statement suspicious of tampering, and have not formally accused the Cubs either.
Tampa havent actually come out and said “you tampered with Joe”, no, because they know that would be a legal nightmare, but its been all over the Baseball world that they have suspicions, and how do you think they are getting out? Timely leaks…its not rocket science, allows them to say it without saying it, if you get me.
Nero’s statement today for me should end it all, they are saying they have proof of when Epstein e-mailed MLB to confirm the opt out and request written proof he was free to approach Maddon.
If indeed thats true, and they have no reason to lie as it can be checked, then for me its done, over, if others want to go on suspecting, thats fine, nothing I can do about that, but for me, as an objective viewer, it appears the Cubs did everything by the book.
the Rays just have to make one phone call to the commissioners office to start the investigation… instead all we hear about is whispers they’re considering it.
Nero pretty much threw down the gauntlet on that now, though. They either have to challenge his version of events directly and make an actual accusation… or let the matter drop entirely.
Yankees need to sign Headley. Even if, for whatever reason, he ends up playing bad for us, it’s still objectively the right move to make if it’s for 4 years. Their off-season hinges on him, McCarthy, and a top reliever.
I just don’t buy the idea that Sandoval is better than Headley. Headley is a defensive god and his offensive production is solid. Sandoval is more of a one-sided player who figures not to age well if he can’t keep his weight in check. If a team is willing to give more money to Sandoval than Headley, then that’s just a silly mistake they’re going to regret. Thankfully for me, that might benefit the Yankees in this case to be able to sign Headley–the better player–at a significantly lower cost.
Usually people with something to hide try to get out in front of the story with their account before the facts come out. Theo and Nero are trying way too hard to show they did nothing wrong.
the guilty dog barks the loudest
Who believes that Maddon didn’t know about the opt-out clause? That’s not exactly a minor detail.
Headley has been the better all around player both over the last year and the last 3 full years. “Arguably the 2nd best”… meaning he really should be the best?
Not taking anything away from Sandoval’s performance in the post-season, it’s probably best not to weigh it too heavily because of sample size issues.
The reasons to sign Sandoval are you think will stay in shape, you believe he will remain a positive defensive player in the near future, and he’s a pretty consistent hitter who doesn’t strike out a lot.
Headley > Sandoval in regular season and he has no QO. Yet Sandoval might get DOUBLE the contract of Headley. Weird.
Age and the assumption that Sandoval is much better with the bat, which is way false. Sandoval really hasn’t been elite with the bat since 2011. Now he is essentially Headley level offensively.
I would think that the Giants are savvy enough to sign HEADLEY if the Sandoval demands get too high. They would also pick a draft pick that way.
We don’t have the timeline. If Theo calls Nero while Tampa was negotiating and says “I won’t talk to Joe until I get written proof of the opt-out and permission from the Commish,” then that’s tampering.