9:21pm: The Nationals and Cubs have not exchanged names and a deal is unlikely, tweets Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune.
8:04pm: The Cubs are engaged with discussions with the Nationals to acquire right-handed starter Jordan Zimmermann, reports Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times. Talks are serious enough that the sides have exchanged names that would be involved, with at least one top young middle infielder likely to be part of the package.
Importantly, per Wittenmyer, Chicago would want to be able to ink Zimmermann to an extension in order to pull the trigger. The Relativity Baseball client is set to hit the open market after this season. He’ll earn $16.5MM in his final year of arb eligibility, after agreeing to a back-loaded two year deal to avoid arbitration last year.
Zimmermann reportedly rejected a five-year, $85MM contract proposal from the Nats last year, and his value has only risen. Zimmermann, 28, threw to a 2.66 ERA over 199 2/3 frames in 2014, striking out 8.2 and walking a league-low 1.3 batters per nine. And that campaign brought him one year closer to free agency, reducing his risk and increasing his leverage in talks.
Zimmermann is, of course, not the only pitching option being pursued by Chicago. Wittenmyer says that Jon Lester is still a possibility, and the club is also chasing the kind of high-upside, high-risk arms it has in the past. Justin Masterson is one of those, per Wittenmyer, who says the righty could be amenable to a low-cost, one-year deal to rebuild his value. Per Chris Cotillo of MLBDailyDish.com (via Twitter), the team has had talks with Masterson, though nothing is close. Lefty Brett Anderson is another possibility, according to the Sun-Times report.
From the Nationals’ perspective, there is obvious appeal in the Cubs’ bevy of interesting, controllable middle infielders. Washington has an opening at second and has said it is interested in acquiring a shortstop option both for depth purposes and to provide an alternative to Ian Desmond, if he cannot be extended. Wittenmyer says the team feels comfortable with its staff even without Zimmermann, though I expect a free agent addition would be forthcoming if an arm is dealt.
While it is far too soon to speculate as to the pieces that might be included in a trade, the Cubs have several possible candidates that could be dangled. Starting shortstop Starlin Castro is signed to an attractive, yet pricey contract. And then there are heralded youngsters Javier Baez, Arismendy Alcantara, and Addison Russell.
This is going to be some sort of crazy offseason. It’s only November!
So do the Red Sox want Cole Hamels? Blues jays? Rangers? Anyone?
Nope, not for Amaro’s asking price. I’m sure the conversation only took 5 minutes before the other team hung up and went about other business.
Hamels isn’t going anywhere until either all three of the big stud free agent starters are all signed OR until the Phils agree to drop the asking price OR until the Phils agree to eat some of that contract.
Makes sense!
sure but teams aren’t going to gut their farm for an ace when they can just sign one. Amarro has no idea of how little leverage he has.
For three major league ready (or close to ready) top prospects? No.
I hope you didn’t take that away from the post above.
Amaro has said that that’s what he wants for Hamels.
go all in for lester, same money, no prospects involved at all (he has no QO)
Lester is gonna cost a few bucks more, atleast 6/130 million I would imagine.
More like 6/150 mill
Yeah, I was only stating the minimum he would sign, and I think that would be only from the Red Sox. In general, I’d say he is going to get around 6/145 million. I think his AAV is going to be slight less than Scherzer’s, by about a million or two.
I think the Sox will open up the vault for Lester but 130-150 seems to be the range!
and hamels is about the same $$$ AAV wise
Yeah, Hamels’ AAV is 20 million which is quite good for a pitcher of his caliber, but when similar pitchers are available via FA, you might as well just target them. The only way the Phillies get their asking price is if they wait untill the right moment, similar to the Cubs with Samardzija last year. Even then, I doubt they get their supposed asking price.
Maybe Hamels will be a fall back for the Sox if Lester goes to the Cubs?
I think Cherrington has his eyes on Lester and Hamels to anchor his staff with the good young pitchers like Ranualdo , Owens, and Johnson. Wait that’s four lefty starters.
Somehow I get the feeling that the Cubs are just warming up.
Dangerous trade. I like Jordan Zimmerman a lot, but I was hoping to get him next offseason — is he going to sign an extension one year from free agency if we’re giving up top prospects?
Yeah probably an extension window like johan, agonz, miggy, RA, etc…The trade becomes void if they dont agree to an extension (like Agonz) but they can agree to a gentleman clause which lets them push it off but agree to an extension none the less (like Agonz)
That is enticing. Makes sense for both teams. Thoughts on what the Nats might get in return?
It’s one year of control, so I would think Alcantara+. I think the ancillary pieces will be important.
Cubs would only agree to the trade if they can sign him to an extension.
No way. We’d have to get Russell or Castro as the main piece. If they get a signing window, then we should get a second piece as well. J-Zimm is a Top 20 pitcher.
With one year of control.
Trade isn’t happening for Alcantara. It’s gonna be one of the big guys…
J-Zimm for 1 year > Samardzija for 1.5 years
J-Zimm for 1 year knowing he’ll test the market and that the Cubs have tons of money for when he does < Shark and Hammels at a deadline for a team that cannot afford them at market prices.
You also got McKinnon and Hammel wasn’t much of anything… I can’t see J-Zimm being let go for anything less than Russell and it makes perfect sense for the Cubs with all of the hitting depth you have. J-Zimm is from Wisconsin, so he’ll be happy there.
Cubs would only agree to the trade if they can sign him to an extension.
Z-Mann is a top 5 pitcher. The Cubs have put together a lot of nice pieces however do not have a pitcher of this caliber. They also have the money.
No way in hell is Zimmerman at top 5 pitcher. Not even top 10.
Russell straight up would be my guess. Maybe throw in a middle reliever on top. More if the Cubs are able to construct a contract extension.
This trade makes zero sense unless they don’t think they have a shot at Lester, Scherzer, or Shields. Why give up prospects and $ (extension) when you can only give up $?
As a Cubs fan I am going to try to eliminate my bias here, but it will not or should not include Bryant or Russell. They are both top 5 prospects in the game and Jordan Zimmermann on one year of control is not worth that. David Price with 1.5 years remaining got Drew Smiley, Nick Franklin and a decent prospect. I believe Price to be the better pitcher and he had more control and most thought his return was week so Zimmermann should probably not get more. The Nats need a 2nd basemen who is also able to play SS if Desmond walks. The Cubs have 2 players who are major league ready and have played significant time at SS and 2nd in Alcantara and Baez. Baez, despite his struggles was a top 10 prospect in baseball, he has huge value, probably more than Zimmermann due to his years of control. The same goes with Alcantara. Baez has so much value I am inclined to believed Alcantara is the most likely to get traded. A deal would probably have him plus a few other good but not great prospects going the Nats way.
Strange- why would the Nats want to trade Zimmerman?
Final year of his contract and unlikely to sign an extension for anything less than the market rate. Also, the nats have depth in the ML rotation as well in the minors. Dealing from an area of strength.
They have tried to sign him to a large extension and he turned it down, so he’s without question heading to free agency. The thought is he really wants to head home to Wisconsin.
They have the prospects, it adds up
Why would they want prospects? They are championship contenders if not close, why trade your best pitcher for guys you hope can help you in a few years.
It will be a middle infielder who is ready to play, or really close…
Castro can give them help this year. Plus they have pitching to compensate
i dont follow MiLB prospects to know if i’d trade Russell for Zimmerman but I’d def. trade Hammel and Samardzija….(for what it’s worth…)
Baez + …? Can’t see Castro moving to second or desmond
you’d figure it would be russell
I can’t see it for one year of control. I can see them packaging Alcantara and Edwards, who’s had a huge value rebound in Arizona. Vogelbach potentially as well considering the Nats have no long term answer at 1B.
Zimmerman is an ace, that’s hardly worth trading him when you won 97 games last year.
Nats fan here: The Nationals have three aces, Strasburg, Fister and Zimmermann along with Gio Gonzalez (average 14 wins per season in his career) and a number-5 starter who won 15 games with an ERA under 3.00. The Nats have several #1 starter prospects at A/AA including Lucas Giolito, who is a Stephen Strasburg clone. If they can plug second, get some depth and then sign a one-year veteran for the rotation until the kids mature, and the Nats will win 100-ish games again in 2015.
I’m not a nats fan, so don’t watch as closely as you but also don’t have the home town bias. From my vantage point Zimmerman is clearly your best pitcher, like I said he’s in the top 5 or 10 pitchers in the NL. He’s significantly better than Strasburg or Fister in my opinion and he’s the guy you build around.
Nats had 4 pitchers with below 3.14 ERA last year, which was Strasburg.
Fister had a 2.41
Jzimm 2.66
It’s not just you. I watch most games, Zimm is clearly the number one. Fister second. I guess you could argue about that a bit but J-Zimm is just nails and is nails in big situations.
Strasburg shouldn’t be discussed on the same level as them. He hasn’t put it all together yet and is just not the stopper that the other two are.
In short, you can’t replace J-Zimm. Trading him would require a huge package, “rental” or no. This is a team that figures to compete next year, not a fringe playoff team.
Nats fan here. JZimm was the best pitcher this year, but he is leaving at the end of the year and we’ve got a freaking good pitching staff even without him. Treinan and Cole are knocking at the door and would both be great #5 starters until Giolito is ready.
Meanwhile we really need a low-cost middle infield stud.
How is J-Zimm the clear #1, while Stras isn’t even in the conversation? What exactly am I missing here? Here is a comparison of Strasburg and Zimmermann’s stats over the last 2 years. Once you consider that Strasburg is over 2 years younger and I don’t think its any kind of stretch to say he’ll be better over the next 5 years.
Stras: 398 IP, 3.08 ERA, 3.07 FIP, 2.83 xFIP, 20.9% K-BB%, 48.4% GB%
JZimm: 413 IP, 2.96 ERA, 3.03 FIP, 3.30 xFIP, 16.5% K-BB%, 44.1% GB%
It is kind of splitting hairs, but I think 90% of Nats fans who watch the games would pick Zimm over Stras for a big game. Stras can be amazing, but gets flustered while JZ is a rock.
Stras can certainly be better the next five years and he’s a bigger fan draw, but I’d rather pitch Zimm right now.
Zimmermann is my favorite pitcher and has been for years. I fully expect him to be traded this offseason. He is a guy to build around but he isn’t willing to sign an extension. Rizzo knew he couldn’t extend Zimmermann last offseason so we went out and acquired Fister. The nats pitching rotation is strong and with a guy like Giolito a year away they can afford to trade Zim. Especially if they can get a top middle infield prospect and a couple additional pieces. I don’t expect Rizzo to resign Desmond so they may be looking for a guy who can play SS or 2nd.
Rizzo is always on top of things. he will not be caught holding the bag.
a
I can’t see how this deal makes sense for either team. Nats should be extending him, he’s their best pitcher and if they don’t extend him the cubs can just sign him next year.
He wants to test. Getting traded and re-upping is effectively the same thing.
if he wants to test the market then why wouldn’t he want to test it after being traded to chicago. Like I said if he’s going to test the open market just bid on him next year. Cubs aren’t going to be ready to win this year.
Because you have all the leverage after being traded. Assets were given up to acquire you. He could definitely still test, but I’m sure the Cubs will ask for terms before they make the trade and see if it’s conceivable that he could be resigned for something near that.
I fail to see how that gives the cubs any leverage other than a year window to negotiate a deal.
They would have to agree to a one or two week time frame before the deal is complete like Johan Santana and the Mets did or the deal wouldnt go through. If the contract isnt signed the deal doesnt go through.
JZimm will be extremely expensive and has shown an unwillingness to sign. Nats also have other extension candidates coming up in Strasburg/Harper/Desmond/Fister to deal with. Can’t extend them all.
He’s refused long-term extensions twice. It’s clear he’s heading to free agency
He is from an area close to Chicago. He will get as much money this year as he will in free agency next year. He can get a guaranteed contract now that will insure him against the kind of problems Justin Masterson ran into this year. And the Cubs will give him a raise on his current 2015 salary.
Trade makes perfect sense.
Why would the Nats be trading him?
He’s in the last year of his contract and because they could get a monster return.
Last year of his deal. He has shown an unwillingness to sign an extension. Nats would get a great return. They have great starting pitching depth.
Thanks, wasn’t aware it was his last year
If they believe in Jordan, Treinen or anyone else in the system to become a legitimate rotation piece, they can free up money to keep Desmond beyond 2015 (Or sign some other extensions, like Harper, Rendon, etc. if they use a guy like Russell at short after letting Desmond walk). For this year, they could sign a short-term guy like Peavy or buy low on a Masterson-type
Lucas Giolito is the debatable top RH arm in the minors and will be up in 2016.
its Zimmerman for castro…..I bet
That would be an awful, awful trade for the Nats.
how so? They have prospects to replace zimm and castro is a premiere SS. I dont see your logic
Castro isn’t close to a premier SS, he’s a <3 WAR player, and a poor defender.
Who has major league experience and is still young on a team friendly contract through 2020. That is so valuable.
So you get an average-ish player, who is already well below average defensively and should already probably move off of position, except his bat doesn’t justify it. You’ve got him until he’s 30 though, so that’ll be fun to watch as he ages (defensively ability tends to peak around 25, and steadily decline from there).
The point is the Nats are looking to cut payroll. They have so many other extension candidates to do the next few years. Castro is an above average option at 2B/SS on a team friendly deal.
So trade a top 10-15 pitcher for him because he’s okay, and he’s cheap? That sounds like a really bad idea, and it’s a far cry from “he’s a premier SS.”
You really are ignoring my point. The Nats have pitching depth to replace Zim who is GONE after this year. They have no middle IF depth in their system that is close to major league ready. Castro plays a premium position that the Nats lack and is signed for 5 years! Cheap!
No, I answered your entire point exactly in the post you just responded to. You don’t trade one of the better pitchers in the game for a mediocre SS simply because he’s cheap and you need one. Zimmermann has value, a ton of it, and trading him for significantly less than that value simply because you’re getting a player who technically plays the position you need to fill (although not well at all) is a really bad idea. Really bad.
MaineSox, the Nats are beyond their payroll max. They need to shed a contract this offseason. JZ has indicated he won’t sign long-term and speculation is that he wants to go back to the midwest close to home. I think it’s Russell as the target but Castro wouldn’t be shocking.
Castro’s one of the top ten SS in the game (if you don’t believe it, try naming ten who are better), and if they keep Zimmermann only to let him leave after next year, all they get is a compensation pick for him! A trade for Castro sounds good for both sides.
He’s a poor defender, if you listen to the narrative spun by the commentators at ESPN who don’t see him on an every day basis. While Castro is not a top-flight glove, he has a good arm and great range and is still young; I’d rather see the Cubs give up Baez than Castro or Russell.
That would be a fine return.
He’s worth more than Castro. It’ll be Russell or Baez.
I think it’s Russell. J-Zimm is awesome.
He’s worth more than Castro? Two guys who can’t combine for a full season in the majors, by themselves, are worth more than Castro. Some where along the way it got lost that Castro is a good bat in a poor line-up with no protection.
Castro is a good player, I just think Rizzo will be looking at guys that are cheaper with longer team control. The Nats have a lot of players with rising contracts. This past season the owners said they won’t be raising payroll until they get the TV deal situation figured out.
Again, longer team control? Castro is signed to 2020. Till he’s 30. How much longer do you need? Not only that, but it’s a team friendly deal. You get a guy who is a guaranteed everyday player, who has 200 hit season under his belt, who has nearly 1k hits before the age of 25, who has hit +280 in every season except one, and who is under a team friendly deal until 2020. But the two guys who haven’t played a combined season in the majors and aren’t guarantees to stick are more valuable? Castro is the best of both world, long team control, proven, and is on a much cheaper contract than if he were on the open market. That doesn’t come along everyday. Highly touted prospect like Russell and Baez come around a lot. Proven players under team friendly deals do not.
I didn’t realize his his extension took him through the 2020 season, I stand corrected. Castro would work, but why would the Cubs be so willing to trade him if he’s as great as everyone says he is?
J-Zimm is a top 10-15 pitcher, and they have so much other middle IF talent in their system.
I am well aware of the talent, Baez, Russell, and Bryant. I figure the only one that is not available via trade is Bryant. His power in that park will be scary.
Hint: he’s not.
Yeah I know
One year of him isn’t worth more than six affordable years of Castro, though.
This makes so much sense for Chicago. They deal from a crazy surplus and get a proven top-of-the-rotation arm that they certainly have the money to extend beyond the season.
Nationals can get insurance if in case Desmond leaves after 2015, or gain the financial flexibility to extend him with Zimmerman out of the picture
Interesting. Wonder what this says about Lester, and the Cubs chances of signing him.
I’ve always thought they would sit out on Shields and Scherzer to pair Lester and Zimmermann.
I’m not up on Chicago’s money situation, but I wonder if Shields wouldn’t make more sense than Lester if they end up pulling this trade off. He’s presumably going to get several million less per year than Lester, but is still a top of the rotation type arm. As a second piece, to a team already shelling out good money to a top pitcher, it might be a good idea to mitigate your (monetary) risk as much as possible.
They have about 70 million in free cash that they could spend if they wanted to according to reports. They had the third lowest payroll last year and only like 30 million on the books plus 10 arb players. If they wanted to they could sign both Lester and a Zimmermann contract extension plus sign a guy like Martin or bullpen guy like Andrew Miller or David Robertson. They have been linked to be interested in all of them(obviously in some capacity and they would not sign all of them). They have said they are looking at a 15 month window to adding talent so dont expect them to spend all 70 this winter but 50 million on say lester a back end of the rotation guy such as Masterson or Brett Anderson and Russell Martin or a bullpen guy could be plausible.
Maybe the two aren’t related. Instead of waiting for next offseason to get a pitcher to go with a potential Lester signing, they have Zimmerman now and are a few more moves from becoming a serious contender for the NL Central title.
Even if they miss on Lester – one of the big three will take the Cubs max money. Chicago is a very enticing market!
If its Russell, maybe there’s something wrong with him.
Nats dont trade him imo unless the offer is overwhelming…
thats my thinking. To trade him for a prospect when you should be competing for a world series it has to be an overpay. And Russel is a trade chip that the Cubs can spare but it is an overpay.
The Nationals don’t need to play for just 2015. They need to build for the future as well. Strasburg/Fister/Gonzalez/Roark can suit the team next year just fine.
If Rizzo doesn’t move him now, he may get nothing in return should he walk next November.
That’s not true. Rizzo gives to get. He’s just been really good at finding undervalued guys in trades. The Gio for Peacock, Milone, and Norris trade is a good example. Fister was an anomaly, but who knew that Morse for Cole, Treinan and Krol would be so good.
So you’re saying Gio was undervalued?
Really good contract vs performance level. Gio isn’t a Top 25 pitcher, but close, and his contract is fantastic compared to what he’d get on the market. Rizzo gave up some good pieces to get Gio, but I’d do that trade all day.
I’d say that was a fair trade for both sides.
Absolutely. If I wasn’t clear, that was my point. Rizzo isn’t opposed to giving good pieces in order to get a guy he wants.
I knew this was coming. Either Russell or Castro is the headliner from the Cubs if this happens.
With an extension, I’d pull the trigger with Castro as the centerpiece and a couple other decent guys. Without an extension I don’t do it at all. (Speaking as a Cubs fan.)
Maybe the reporter confused Zimmermans and they are talking about trading Ryan Zimmerman, that would at least make a little sense on the Nats part.
Why would they trade Ryan Zimmerman?
They can’t anyway. NTC.
They can, he just has to approve it first.
That too. But why would they trade RZ? I’m not catching this guy’s logic. RZ has many more years on his deal, plus, he doesn’t fit in to the Cubs at all.
Ya, Cubs are in desperate need for hitting lol
Why is it crazy for the Nats?
I could totally be wrong, but I just don’t see the Cubs giving up any of their top prospects when Zimmerman is going to be a free agent next season. I just don’t buy it.
Article has been updated to suggest the Cubs won’t do it without an extension in place. That makes much more sense to me.
Of course they would but why not just wait a year and you can get him and keep the top guys. Cubs can be playoff contenders this year but we most likely wont win the World Series. No need to trade any of the top guys right now
exactly cubs might win a wild card this year, but they aren’t going to be ready to compete for a world series until 2016, so why give up big pieces like that when you can sign the guy next year. This move makes no sense for either team.
Totally agree, I mean I can see us giving them Alcantara, Vogelbach, Johnson, some other lower level guys but I doubt Nationals will do that. But no way I see Cubs giving up Castro, Russell, Baez, or Soler up. No way (no need to add Bryant, he will be going NO where lol)
The only way the Nats make this move in my opinion is if they get overwhelmed with ML ready talent. You aren’t getting him for prospects.
But you’re essentially asking for prospects. Even major league ready talent can still be a prospect, check Bryant.
I could see this deal getting done for Alcantra, Edwards, and Pierce Johnson, along with a lower level guy. I think the Cubs would have to not only give up a middle infielder, but also two pitching prospects. I don’t think this deal would get done without two pitching prospects being in it.
I proposed Alcantara, Johnson, Vogelbach, and one of our top pitchers in lower levels. Thats a pretty good return for Zimmerman. Cubs wont give up both Johnson and Edwards
I don’t think they would either, but I think in any trade they’d probably have to. It’s difficult for me to see the Nats trading an ace for one high level pitching prospect. I wouldn’t blame them if they asked for more.
Zimmerman is walking most likely after this season. Those 3-4 players for Zimmerman is a pretty good deal for the Nationals. Alcantara is ML ready and Vogelbach and Johnson about a year away
I doubt Nats want a quantity of good prospects. They want the one blue chipper in Castro/Russell.
Not happening. Just dont see that happening sorry. Cubs rather just wait a year then give up one of those guys
It will rely on Zimm agreeing to an extension.
The problem I see with this as a Cubs fan is that Zimmermann (who has documented durability issues) is one of the last pitchers I would want to give a long-term deal to.
Yeah, he’s been fine over the past three seasons…but you can put any number of pitchers with checkered injury histories into a vacuum and pick out a nice stretch. He’s a ticking time bomb IMO.
The past three seasons is the majority of his career. Yes, he had TJ, but has shown no ill-effect’s since and has been a bulldog for DC. Plus, TJ is so common nowadays.
The past three seasons is half of his career…which means the preceding three seasons (shortened to varying degrees by injury) mark the other half.
The fact that you mention that “TJ is so common nowadays” like it’s nothing is indicative of the complacency and fatalism, IMO, that baseball commentators have shown regarding pitcher injuries over the past decade or so. I’m hoping higher-ups aren’t as complacent, but I often worry that that’s not the case, as evidenced by the continued obsession with velocity and power over all else.
Major injuries and major surgeries are par for the course nowadays–they’re simply expected and shrugged off with an “oh well, nothing we can do! it was going to happen anyway”
Identifying things like injury-causing mechanics (or vice versa, mechanics that can prolong pitcher durability) will be the new Moneyball IMO.
How often was Tommy John injured after his surgery?
The lack of a good contract will play itself out in the trade. I doubt the Cubs would be giving up their best for a 1-year rental… they either guarantee an extension or they don’t give as much.
It all comes down to the extension guarantee then. Cubs will only give up what the Nats require to move J Zimm in that case.
Of course, but what i’m saying Cubs should just wait a year to sign Zimmerman. Theo has said many times they are looking to add talent over the next 15 months. Talking about next year’s free agent class how stacked it is with starting pitching
How do you know that Zimmerman will sign with them in 2016 when teams such as the Yankees and Dodgers will be throwing money at him?
With no draft cost but a second round pick why would the Cubs not just get Scherzer or Shields in a group where there are a ton of startes on the market with no other heavy spenders protected except Boston?
They could still go after Lester or Scherzer even if they get Zimmerman.
Nat fans, theoretically what would you take for him?
Only happening if the Nats get Castro/Russell.
If im the Nats Im doing cartwheels for that proposal
Why? The Nats are contenders.
if Zimmermann is being traded, it should take Russell/Baez/Alcantara ++++
Zimm only has one year left on his deal and has shown he wants to test free agency.
Initial thought was one of either Castro/Russell/Baez. If not, I’d take Alcantara& either Hendricks or Edwards.
I don’t see Hendricks being moved anytime soon. Out of all thoses guysi thinkBaez has the best chance of being moved.
Nats won’t take a strikeout prone player like that. They already have too many of those.
Even so, he is the most likely guy out of the Cubs middle infielders to be traded.
Zimm is arguably the best pitcher on staff so I would be happy with good prospects from the Cubs farm system. Specifically, I would be happy with one of Russell/Baez/Alcantara plus young pitching and maybe some upside prospects. I’d imagine Rizzo would ask for Edwards or Pierce Johnson but that price might be steep for Theo. I would laugh aloud if he threw in Soler but that’s not going to happen. Realistically, I would think it would be one of Russell/Baez/Alcantara and maybe 1-2 young pitchers with high upside. Middle infield is the club’s weak spot so that’s what Rizzo is asking for.
Rizzo is only doing this for Russell/Castro.
Already had a player who Kd half the time in Espinosa, so no thanks to Baez.
If I were ranking them, they would obviously be my 1 and 2. I could see him doing it for someone like Baez or Alcantara if he gets better pitching prospects along with them.
I think you hit it.
A quality middle infielder that play SS if Desmond leaves at the end of 2015, and a pitching prospect.
I think the Nationals are playing with fire. They have World Series potential next year. You don’t just trade away a guy like that, even when he has just a year of control.
Starting pitching depth is the biggest strength they have. Zimmermann will be very expensive and shown he wants to test FA. Nats have a bevy of other extension candidates coming up in Harper/Strasburg/Desmond/Fister. They can’t afford to sign them all.
and Zimmerman should be the first one to get the extension.
He has turned them down twice. Can’t take the risk of letting him go to FA for nothing.
you could try to win a world series with him, and maybe this time let him finish a game he has dominated in.
I’m not Matt Williams. Fact is, we’ve tried and failed to get out of the first round twice. The MLB playoffs are the biggest mystery in sports. The goal is to get in as many times as possible. Trading Zimmermann now would help out the Nats for the long term, not just 2015.
No need for snark btw.
Agreed, unless they are blown away by an offer.
I will say this, Castro will NOT be part of the deal. And before anyone starts yelling at me, it’s not just because Castro is only 24 years old and it’s not just because he’s a 3 time all-star. It’s because he’s under a team friendly deal. He’s under contract until 2020, so until he’s 30. Not only that, but it’s a team friendly deal. Financially, from the Cubs perspective it makes no sense to deal Castro unless it’s overwhelming package. And I don’t think Zimmerman is so overwhelming to throw away not only a team friendly deal, but an everyday player. Someone like Russell or even Baez makes sense, but Castro makes no sense.
Who would cost the Cubs the most at shortstop over those next same 5 or 6 years: Castro, Baez, or Russell? Also, Cubs are not overly enamored with Castro. I could see them trade Castro,keep Bryant at third, Russell at short (best defensively) and hope Baez or Alcantara can come along at second as they seem to have the highest risk of never putting it together (hit for enough average-let’s say anything .250+).
They’re not overly enamored with Baez, not Castro. Baez I am 100% sure is not a player that Epstein or Hoyer would have drafted. Castro on the other hand when asked by Chicago media about the idea of trading him to the Mets, Hoyer scoffed and laughed it off as, “are you crazy?” Of three SS, Baez in my opinion is the odd man out. He’s the guy who least fits the mold of what the Cubs have been drafting. And once again, Castro is under team control. There’s no guarantee that Baez or Russell would take a team friendly deal once they hit big, if they hit big. With Castro, there’s an answer to that question already.
Theo has a pretty good track record when it comes to trades. I would LOVE to see the Cubs compete next year…
Doesn’t make sense for the Nats unless they get a very large package. J Zimm has been their best and most consistent pitcher and they would like to win a world series.
Also GMs “exchange names” every day with multiple teams, that doesn’t mean a trade is serious. It’s pretty hard to discuss the possibility of a trade without naming names.
I’d be pretty surprised if they lined this up to an actual trade, but whatever.
Odds are he is not resigned though
Odds are the Nats want to win a world series this year.
I’m not saying it wouldn’t happen, but to trade your best pitcher in a competing year you’d need a big package.
I doubt the Nats view him as a rental in the same light that many on here do.
He is technically a one year rental for DC. He isnt resigning.
Zimm has sown he wants to test FA.
if washington does trade zimmerman, that means they most likely resign desmond which means the nationals will not need a ss. chicago would have to offer something else than ss in my opinion. they will need a second baseman maybe depending on what path they want to take but they can just use epinosa if need be.
They need a second baseman
Espinosa is terrible. Trading Zimmermann doesn’t guarantee a Desmond extension either. If the Nats acquired Castro for example they would move him to 2B for 2015, back to SS after if Desmond walks.
it is well known in the washington area that its gonna be either desmond or zimmermann, its all theyve been talking about on the sports radios for weeks. as i agree with u that its not a garuntee rizzo wouldnt trade one without knowing he would get the other signed
Yep. It makes sense that Zimmermann would be the one to go. We have pitching depth and no middle infield depth. J Zimm has also refused extensions twice and will be expensive.
And this would put JZimm close to home. It makes too much sense and I hope it would lead to a Desi signing and perhaps Fister as well.
Thinking Alcantra and Valbuena
I can’t imagine the Nats take that deal.
My guess is that the Nationals are thinking that if they can’t extend Zimermenn, then you should trade him for some very valuable position players, and then go after one of the top pitchers on the free agent market (Lester, Scherzer, Shields). With the loss of Sorianos salary, plus the loss of Zimermenn’s salary if you trade him, the nats can easily fit in signing of a top pitcher.
I think it would be better to extend zimmermen with with the money they were to invest top pitchers
But then they don’t get prospects back. Scherzer plus prospects is better then Zimmermenn, even if he does cost about 5 million per year cheaper then Scherzer.
But they also want to extend other players, which they could and let Zimmermann walk… but they receive no prospects in that scenario, either. You shed payroll for extensions… makes sense to me.
They’ve tried to extend Zimm twice. He wants to test the waters.
on the flip side, i think the cubs would be better off just signing one (or more) of those 3 and keeping the kids. i dont really get trading for a zim/hamels type right now
good point brandon, i could definitely see that. one of those three would sure want to play for a contender
Can’t see the Nats signing a big free agent. They are bumping up against payroll max and this is an opportunity to bring in a cheap middle infield stud while having some money to re-up other guys (Des, Fister, and possibly Ramos, Harper, Rendon). Cole/Treinan can handle this year and potentially Giolito next year.
that is possible, but outside of desmond and fister, the other three arent gonna be free agents for many years so the nats have time if they wanna bring on a top contract
I don’t think they have the payroll flexibility to take on new 8 figure guys. And, I’m very afraid about letting Harper get close to FA.
I think Stras will leave in a few years as well.
What is with the Cubs trying to make trades for starting pitching? Money isn’t an issue, 1st round pick is protected, Castro (who is mentioned in every trade scenario) is actually a good player with a good contract, and there is depth in the free agent starting pitching market both this year and next. Why be eager to deal from our surplus of middle infielders when Castro is the only one who has proven anything yet at the major league level and when there are just as good of pitchers on the market you can get without having to give up players for them? Doesn’t make sense. Don’t make a trade when it isn’t necessary.
It could be one of many things: they are doing their diligence, attempting to drive down free agent SPs’ prices, they are not wowed by the current free agents, etc.
I agree. They should sign Lester, another veteran SP on a one year deal (maybe someone with upside like Josh Johnson), and a back-end bullpen piece. Then they can sign one of Price/Cueto/Zimmermann next winter and have that guy to plug in between Lester and Arrieta in the rotation. That would be a nasty 1-2-3.
also would like to say that unlike some gm across baseball, rizzo actually preforms some amazing deals. he isnt gonna just let him go cause he may not resign/ yes i know im not inside the organziation so idk but the cubs will have to give up more then one top prospect
The haul that Zimmerman brings in would be comparable to what the Rays got for Price. You would think if an extension is in place, the Nats would receive greater value in the pieces they receive, and while I think that his value will increase, I don’t think it will increase as much as Nats fans would like. The Cubs will offer a little more to assure they don’t have to outbid anyone next winter, but they won’t sell their major pieces to do it. As a non biased Indians fan, I think Baez is the most logical trade candidate hear. He is the most expendable of the elite prospects (also probably the least likely to succeed), but also has enough upside to make it worth the risk for Washington. Baez+Edwards+something else for Zimmerman (assuming he has already agreed to 5+year extensions for something around 20 million a year).
Baez is too strikeout prone. Not Rizzo’s style of player.
I think if they include Baez, there will have to be more than Edwards and an upside prospect. If it’s Russell, I could see less on the pitching prospect front.
Baez AND Edwards? Epstein would be fired.
Nahh. Cubs fans really do have an exciting future, but the one guy you guys need to get over is Baez. Dan Uggla is his ceiling IMO. The guy above me may be correct as well. the Nats may not even be that interested in him anyway. But yes, it would take at leat Baez, Edwards, and another good prospect. Remember, the deal I proposed only goes with the assumption that Zimmerman has already agreed to an extension, so he is more than a one year rental.
That could very well be true. I can’t make sense of the Cubs trading any of their other elite prospects however, and I really don’t think the Nats are in a position to trade Zimmerman unless they get one of the Cubs big boys back, so Baez makes sense to me.
Do you see Rizzo wanting Baez? Honestly?
He could. 40 HR potential is still incredibly valuable, but I admit Nats fans probably know better than I do. I just don’t see the Cubs parting with Soler, Bryant, or Russell, and I can’t really see the Nats parting with their ace for much less than someone who could make a major impact now and in the future. Maybe Castro is the centerpiece. If he is however, It would probably be Castro for Zimmerman straight up. This rumor just doesn’t make much sense to me from either side unless the Nats plan on making a run at one of the big 3 FA pitchers after they deal Zimmerman.
He’s only going to hit 40 HRs with 250Ks..
Ha yeah I know he is way overrated, but 40 HRs and 200 ks still have value. You seem like an informed fan. What would you be asking for from the Cubs, assuming a deal was already in place for the Cubs to extend Zimmerman?
If a deal was in place to extend Nats will be getting Russell/Castro as a headliner. If there is no deal to extend I don’t think Epstein would be willing to meet Rizzo’s demands.
Russell won’t be dealt. I think between Zimmerman, Scherzer, and Lester, Zimmerman is the best of the bunch, but if its going to cost Russell, I imagine the Cubs just pass and go after Lester and wait till next year and go after Zim/Cueto/Price/Latos in FA. I will however change my stance and assume this deal is being centered around Castro however. I just wouldn’t expect much more than Castro in that trade. Maybe Edwards is included, but his inclusion would be the ceiling for me. People need to remember that next years crop of FA pitching will be just as strong as this years. No need to blow your wad via trades.
I’m fine with Castro. Nats desperately need MI’s. I’m a big fan of his contract.
I agree. His contract is great. That’s why I think the deal won’t include much beyond Castro. Thanks for intelligent conversation tho Danny.
I don’t think Rizzo buys Castro’s K’s and defense.
You’ll have to debate that with Danny. I tend to agree with him though.
Good conversation.
I believe Rizzo would want Russell and a pitching prospect. That should do it.
Epstein locks up what I think is the 2nd or 3rd best starter in the NL – behind only Kershaw and maybe Bumgarner. Zim gets a raise on his 2015 salary, his long-term money, insurance in the event he is injured in 2015, and gets to play near home.
Win. Win. Win.
Addison Russell is not getting traded in this deal.
Either is Castro, Baez, Bryant, Soler. Not giving up any of those guys
If Zimm agrees to an extension with the Cubs to finish the deal. It will be Russell/Castro going to DC.
You wont be getting any of those guys for 1 year of Zimmerman. That’s from the DC view, they are getting these guys for 1 year of Zimmerman. Doesn’t matter if Cubs end up signing Zimmerman to a contract extension.
agreed but lets be realistic, this trade wont happen unless they throw up the top guys and the cubs shouldnt do that. so this isnt happening
I think it be dumb if Nationals didnt take an offer of Alcantara, Vogelbach, Johnson. Those are 3 really good players for just 1 year of Zimmerman
I just said. Zimm would have to agree to an extension prior to the deal being completed….
Epstein can’t play all of his prospects… they have no value to his team playing in Des Moines. Why wouldn’t you get rid of one so you can get a really good pitcher who would promise to sign an extension in return?
Or you can keep Edwin Jackson in your rotation and let prospects rot away in AAA ball.
Yea, they all only can play SS. Baez will be at 2nd, Russell SS, Castro at 3rd or you can flip flop Castro and Baez. Bryant goes to a corner OF. It all fits
then this trade wont happen, seriously though it would have to take at least one of them to even begin discussions
Then you’re not getting Jordan Zimmermann.
As a Mets fan, I’m super excited about the Nationals weakening their team 🙂
As a guy without a pony in the NL East race, I don’t see the Mets competing even with Washington losing Zimmermann. Sorry.
Have fun watching Cuddyer play 45 games this year.
They would be weakening their team in 2014 in a year in which the Mets aren’t exactly expected to contend and strengthening their team for the future with a long-term, cost controlled short stop. If i’m a Mets fan I wouldnt want this deal to go down.
I’m sorry, but having the team to beat in your division trade their #1 SP for prospects is great for us. Could be the extra win or two we need to get a WC berth in a very top heavy NL.
Not to mention there is no guarantee any of those prospects pan out.
but he could just pull what a lot of people thought lester would do and just resign with the nats next year 🙂 lol
Nats can’t sign all of their expensive extension candidates. What you should be rooting for is JZ walking as a free agent next off season with the Nats getting nothing in return.
In Rizzo We Trust. He’s one of the best GM’s in the game.
Starlon Castro and Edwin Jackson for Jordan Zimmerman
Lol. Only if they include Matt Williams for Joe Maddon.
Ok so say the cubs flip Addison Russell for Jordan Zimmermann and he signs an extension. Legitimate question, is Zimmermann that much of an upgrade to Samardzija? Personally, I’d rather have Zimmermann but in terms on on field impact for next season the difference is only marginal. Both high K ace type power pitchers. Now should the cubs hit a homer and nail a top 3 FA pitcher to pair up with him, now we’re talking. This seems to be the blueprint if you ask me.
Trading Russell for Zimmermann, even with an extension, would be a horrid move. They can have Baez for all I care.
I disagree, if you are counting extensions. Zimmerman is a top 10-15 pitcher in baseball. I like Baez, but not with the Nats, They already have too any K’s in their lineup and I’m not sure putting Baez there would be a good thing for their lineup
Well Baez is still young and his ML sample size is far too small just to cast him off. Let’s not discount what the guy did in the minors – talent like that at a premium position is valuable.
come on you all lets think here, zimmermann is a year away from most likely the biggest pay day of his life. he isnt gonna accept an extension unless its for what he wants the contract to be, most likely somewhere over 100 million
Maybe with the Cubs. He is from Wisconsin, and wants to be closer to home. Cubs have the $$$. J Zimm is at least comparable to Lester and better than Shields.
I might contend that Zimmermann is better than Lester… and being 3 years younger, a much safer bet at SP.
I would too. Didn’t want to get people all riled up.
Yeah, Zimm’s been slightly better than Lester over the last three years, and is a good deal younger as you noted.
Zim is far better than Lester.
Since the start of 2012 Zimmermann has a 84 FIP- to Lester’s 85. Lester has been more durable and thrown more innings though, and put up 13.5 WAR to Zim’s 12.3. Zimmermann has been better at limiting walks, and has the edge in ERA, and is the better overall pitcher, but it’s not a very big difference.
Zimmermann is 28. Lester is 31. Age has a TON of value in these cases.
It makes him more valuable, it doesn’t make him better.
Consider the source here, guys.
Gordon Wittenmyer isn’t the best source in the world. If Heyman or Gammons or one of the national writers was reporting this, I’d be more apt to give it stronger legs.
I think its very possible the Cubs threw this rumor out to get some leverage for possible Lester deal
Or, with Hamels.
Hamels will be much more expensive.
yep zimmerman wants the money, he wouldnt take any extension and wants to test the market
Maybe. Hoyer and Epstein did seem a bit ticked that their name had been connected with so many free agents, so prices could be driven up by agents.
according to paul sullivan of the chicago tribune (cubs fans is he reliable?) this deal will not happen and names were never discussed
Yes, when it comes to Cubs insiders only trust Sullivan and Kaplan. Only people I trust
Gammons is creditable?
He’s been publishing rumors at the request of FO people for 40 years in order to get a quid pro quo on future moves.
This possible deal makes total sense for all parties involved.
This really makes sense for both teams. The Nationals are not going to be able to afford Zimmerman, Fister and Desmond. I think the Desmond and Fister deals are easier to get done. The Cubs need pitching. I think Chicago makes the most sense for Zimmerman. He is from Wisconsin but Milwaukee can’t afford to give him market value. Chicago is very close to Wisconsin and can give him that money. I don’t think signing him will be an issue for them.
As far as names. I think you start with Russell. Zimmerman is a top 10-15 pitcher in baseball. I think this is a fair trade. If Russell is rebuffed the question becomes whether you go Alcantra or Baez. I tend to favor a deal around Alcantra. I like Baez a lot but putting his strikeouts in a lineup that already has too many strikeouts worries me a bit.
I look for a deal with Alcantra, Edwards for starters. After that I look for another upper-middle level prospect.
I don’t think Baez gets Rizzo excited, at all, IMO.
I tend to agree.
“The teams have not exchanged names and a deal is unlikely”
Well that de-escalated quickly.
Theo’s floating the idea…
the new reports saying no names have been given back and forth and trade unlikely
That’s no fun. Long offseason left for that to change.
yea lol just reporting it, idk how truthful that guy is tho
I just think this deal goes down, maybe later in the offseason. It’s a perfect match.
Yep, I’ve been saying JZ to the Cubs for a few months now. It matches up too nicely.
as do i, just dont think the time is right right now, see what u can get in the offseason first then come back to this
Bogus rumor. Oh well, it was fun for five minutes.
Or that’s what Paul Sullivan wants you to think….
well how truthful is paul sullivan? lol
Where there’s smoke there is fire.
I woulnd’t be so sure. It very well may be. However, I do not believe the first guy simply made it up. We will see. However, usually, when there is smoke there is fire
With fans like these, no wonder Zimmermann wants out of Washington.
We love JZ and wish he would sign an extension. But that doesn’t seem to be happening.
Fans like what? He’s the best pitcher on the staff but our fan love isn’t going to make him want to resign if he wants to go elsewhere. If he wants to go elsewhere, we might as well see what we can get for him. If he stays and leaves via FA, then we get a 1st round draft pick, at least.
Never trust Wittenmeyer. All us Cubs should know that by now . Just didn’t buy it from the start because just don’t see the Cubs giving up any of the top guys with Zimmerman going to be a free agent next year
Is that you, Paul Sullivan?
Nope, but Wittenmeyer is hardly ever right. Plus he is basically hired just to mouth the Cubs most the time
and to put the icing on the cake, adam kilgore of the washington post confirms with paul sullivan that nothing is gonna happen
Cubs totally threw it out to get some leverage on Lester most likely.
CHC gets: Jordan Zimmerman + contract extension
WASH gets: Addison Russell + Kyle Schwarber
contract extension will be well over 100 million tho if he doesnt decide to take more money on the open market
The Cubs certainly have the money… if they don’t, they won’t be signing Lester or Scherzer.
Yea it will be. This will be like the deal where Boston got Adrian Gonzalez from the Padres
Sorry, no way Cubs do that
I beg to differ
First off this deal will not be happening. But they would not trade either of those guys
Without a contract extension? Your correct.
With a contract extension this is very possible.
Just think about how you got Russell in the first place… for a 1 year 2month rental of Samardjia
Wasn’t just for Samardjia, Jason Hammel who you can make the case was better then Samardjia in the first half was also in the deal
Hammel was only a 2month year rental, plus you guys got mckinney as well.
So 2 rentals for Russell and Mckinney.
Samardzija wasn’t a rental and Hammel was pitching better then him. If the Cubs got Zimmerman and one of your top young pitchers for Russell as the main piece, then it would make some sense then
Come on, McKinney had more trade value than Hammel.
I think the part you’re missing is that A. It was a mid-season trade and B. the A’s were going for the World Series win for THIS season
It seems to me the Cubs are going for a World Series win sometime soon, not in any particular year.
Ergo, no way do the Cubs make that trade. It simply doesn’t make sense for them.
Samardjia only had 1 year 2months left so its not like the A’s were getting him for the long term.
Plus Zimmerman is a better pitcher than both of them
Zimmerman agreeing to a contrract extension > Samradzjia for 1 year 2months and Hammel for 2 months
Ok, but to say Russell and Schwarber come on. Some of the deals I have seen are pretty funny on here. Look what the Rays got for Price.
cant remember the specifics but the Rays made out quite well. Smyly out pitched Price and they got 2 prospects to go along with him
I know Smyly is a good pitcher, but don’t think the 2 prospects were any top 50 guys. I have seen some deals on here thinking Nats should get Russel, Schwarber, Edwards for Zimmerman. I mean come on
Yea thats a little far fetched. But Zimmerman agreeing to a contract extension is pretty valuable
That’s funny! One year of control for Russell and Schwarber. Love this site, never know what your going to see
I like that deal as a Nats fan.
Agree. I wouldn’t be surprised to see something like that and perhaps Storen also going to the Cubs (I would be sad to see Storen go).
legitimate question: zimmermann still does have a year left and may try and get every penny out of the nats he can and if they dont he may just accept their best offer. he has the statistics to demand the money and he rejecting the contract offers may just be on purpose to scare the nats into paying him what he wants. is this even a possibility or no?
I don’t think so, 2015 is his last year in DC at the most.
Certainly, but Rizzo is not the kind of guy to take chances. He’s super prepared with Plan A, B, and C.
I don’t know if the Nats are that terrified. They aren’t hurting with pitching and without Zimmermann, the decision for who to extend becomes easier.
As for Zimmermann, there certainly is a ton of risk in waiting it out. You’re risking serious injury, a huge down year, or other factors that could draw teams away from him.
Also keep in mind, while Zimmermann will be one of, if not THE best pitching option next winter (barring a Price extension), there are tons of other options. It is sometimes advantageous to jump ahead of the market and sign an extension before you are competing with 3-5 other high caliber guys on the open market.
Zimmermann may be better off getting traded and signing an extension.
Johnny Cueto will be better.
Nats fans can keep dreaming. Theo and Jed are trying to fleece Washington like the Tigers did for Price and give up nothing. They aren’t giving up anyone of value for 1 year of service.
well maybe theo can ask rizzo for tips on how to fleece people as its well proven rizzo is the master of fleecing based on his past trades
Fister is the anomaly. Rizzo is willing to give up good players to get a guy who he targets.
well it depends on how u view it, langerhans for morse trade. the gio gonzalez trade, wilson ramos trade as well as the denard span trade
Gio for Norris, Peacock, and Milone… hardly a ripoff.
Span for Meyer… hardly a ripoff.
Ramos for Capps was lopsided, but the Twins needed the arm and it wasn’t considered a bad deal at the time.
Rizzo scored for Morse… but that was a great find by him.
Theo doesn’t need tips. He fleeced the Orioles in trading Feldman, he fleeced Texas in trading Garza, and he fleeced Oakland in the Samardzija/Hammel deal.
Rizzo is too smart to get fleeced. He won’t move Zimm unless he gets appropriate value.
My guess is it’s a leverage move to try to get Amarro to lower his demands for Hamels.
Could be. Rizzo doesn’t gossip, so this was definitely floated by the Cubs’ side.
yah it makes no sense that Rizzo would want a story like that out. I’m sure they want to try to sign Zimmerman longterm.
They have tried and failed numerous times. Plus, they have other extensions to worry about. The price tag for him is getting too high. Rizzo will be looking for the right offer to move him if it comes along.
the report earlier was that they offer 5/85, that’s not close to the neighborhood it would take to get it done. On the open market Zimmerman could get a greinke deal, so for an extension you could get a discount on that, but not that extreme.
Make the same trade with the Twins for Santana, Escobar or Dozier. Twins send Alex Meyer back to the Nationals, get Michael Taylor to play CF.
Huh? Meyer isn’t needed with Cole/Treinan/Jordan/Giolito. We need a young middle infield stud to trade JZimm.
Where would Washington play Santana?
Santana can play 2B.
wait taylor goes to the twins or stay in dc? span isnt moving out of center field
why would the twins do that? They aren’t ready to compete even with zimmerman.
In the AL Central they sure would be competitors for at least a WC.
I don’t see this deal happening. The Cubs have spent 3+ years building this farm system. They aren’t just going to trade away a prized prospect such as Russel, Baez etc for a 1-year player. I see them going after Jon Lester/Russell Martin. Their is no way Washington is getting a remotely close. Maybe a Billy Mckinney/Cj Edwards.
It’s only happening imo if JZimm agrees to an extension with the Cubs as part of the deal.
Good chance Zimmerman is a free agent next offseason also and even if he isn’t they can still most likely can get Price, Cueto, Samardzija, maybe Grinke if he opts out. My proposal was Alcantara, Johnson, Vogelbach, lower level SP for Zimmerman
Is that agreeing to a contract extension?
No, but I’m pretty confident Cubs would pretty much give him what he wants. So for most part in the end it would be
i would feel that hypothecially tho that it would have to be two middle infielders, nats are stocked up with young pitching, having a lot of it so if this trade does happen the nats wouldnt want pitching but idk
Thats a pretty hefty package to pay for a 1 year rental for a team that finished in last place.
The Cubs won’t get any 1 year rentals. What if there furthor away from contention than they thought. Even the highest regarded Prospects need time to develope
I cant see them making a deal without him agreeing to a contract extension
We don’t need those guys. It’s gotta be a stud middle infielder in return or Rizzo won’t make the deal.
Wont make the deal then and Nationals will get nothing for Zimmerman then
Because there’s no other teams that will trade for a guy like Zimm?
What other team has what you all are asking for from the Cubs? Seen a lot of you thinking just Russell isn’t even enough when it comes to the top guys
Mariners and Dodgers… just to name two.
Their farm systems are better then the Cubs? And both of those teams just really really need another starter ?
what about a trade with the angels around a howie kendrick? add some on either side, the angels want to trade him
Kendrick is a FA next year as well… I can’t imagine either team would make that trade.
You didn’t ask who has a better farm system, you asked who has what the Nationals would want.
That’s not to say that those teams wouldn’t go for that… but honestly, you don’t think the Dodgers wouldn’t get excited over the prospect (no pun intended) of Kershaw-Greinke-Zimmermann? They definitely have what it takes to get Zimm there (as a Giants fan, I hope they don’t) and better, the money to replace whatever prospect they lose in the deal.
Point is, there are plenty of teams who could put together a package for Zimmermann. It obviously gets worse the longer the Nationals wait, but they’ll get something.
but what if russell isnt up to scratch, gets injured etc, the nats need two of them
Except for a year of his services…
Someone will give a top middle infield guy for JZimm or Rizzo will keep him for 2015.
This move never made sense, and like normally during this season when it doesn’t make sense we normally find out an hour or two later it’s not true. My guess is this was misinformation put out there to get Amarro to drop the price on Hamels.
Or for Lester to lower what he wants maybe. Show the Cubs willing to move away from him
The Cubs aren’t the only ones in on Lester. I’m sure he’ll move on just fine.
I know he’s not but I do think it comes down to Cubs and Red Sox
I just don’t think these guys are going to fall for silly games you are suggesting the Front Office is playing. They all have agents who know this business. I’m not sure they are doing what you are suggesting they are.
So if the Cubs get Zimmerman, thats one less suitor for Hammels. Hammels will force that 5th year option to be picked up as well… His trade value is getting killed
Call me crazy but I feel the Cubs don’t need to make this trade. Arrieta, T. Wood aren’t exactly chopped liver. K. Hendricks went 7-2 last year. We could get Lester this year and Price next year and our rotation would be money.
You think the Tigers won’t extend Price?
I just pulled a name tbh. I’m not a fan of Cueto
I think Cueto will be the biggest name available for pitchers, honestly. I think Zimmermann will be dished and sign an extension, I think Price is a lock to sign an extension. Cueto may be the biggest name available.
I don’t see them dishing out 300 million for 2 pitchers. Both Lester and Price’s contracts will look bad at the back end of the deal
I agree. I’m not a fan of throwing crazy money at FA pitchers. It usually blows up.
signing one big free agent pitcher is fine if you have the money, but 2 is just absurd and will sure backfire
It’s Sullivan vs Wittenmyer.
Sullivan all day lol. David Kaplan is the main guy I listen to when it comes to Cubs. He hasn’t said a word so ya
David Kaplan is a fan first, journalist second. He often says ridiculously homerish things that get fans excited, but have no substance behind them. Sullivan is a better source.
Not lately, he’s got some inside with Theo. He’s been pretty good on stuff lately
he’s still a nobel prize winner compared to wittenmeyer
I honestly don’t know enough about Wittenmeyer to have an opinion, so I’ll take your word for it.
Clash of the Titans
though more the newer lame 3d version than the classic Harryhausen one, to be sure…
“signed to an attractive, yet pricey contract.” Can it be both?
well, it’s not cheap… but you’d be getting a proven All-Star for less per year than most of this years free agent hitter crop will go for…
It’s not an outrageous contract. He’s got $50M or so left, but a great option before his final season ($16M Option or $1 buyout).
all told it’s probably one of the more team friendly contracts in baseball when you consider his age, production and what it would cost to replace him on the open market.
But he’s certainly making more than veteran minimum.
It’s a moveable contract. I don’t think there’s many teams out there that would be scared away from his price tag if he were available to them.
Castro is way more valuable than Zimmerman. A lot of people don’t watch Castro play and realize how good this guy is. He isn’t going to win any MVPs, but a .780+ OPS with solid defense is something only like 2 teams have from a SS. Castro hasn’t even hit his peak and already one of the top 3 SS in the game. Zimmerman has one year left and will be expensive. Castro for Zimmerman straight up will be a very bad trade for the cubs. I’d say trade any 2 of 4 of Alcantara, Almora, Johnson and Edwards.
I don’t think you know who Jordan Zimmerman is. He’d immediately become the ace of the Cubs rotation. He accrued a 5.2 WAR last season, but judging by your notion that Castro is somehow a top 3 SS in baseball, I’m assuming you aren’t privy to advanced statistics. Castro is a borderline top 10 SS. That being said, you are right about Zimmermann only have 1 year left (albeit $16M for him is a bargain). So in that respect, the team control difference between the two players makes this a plausible swap if it were to happen.
As a Cubs fan I agree with Joeys post here more than the previous one. I like Castro, he is a good SS, but it’s not like he’s a top tier SS. Jordan Zimmerman is a beast, I don’t know why people don’t understand how good he really is. The reason I don’t understand why the Cubs would make this deal is, wait until next year to sign him, unless they can get him without giving up a lot. Washington is better off trading him in July, they will get more in return IMO, some desperate team will need SP.
I think the Cubs absolutely need to trade either Castro or Baez. They’ve got so much SS depth and so little pitching depth that they need to trade one of their surplus INFs. They should only be trading for Zimmermann if it comes w/ an extension because the Cubs aren’t going to compete in 2015 without some serious FA signings both on the pitching side and offensively. So trading for a 1 year rental makes no sense for them. SIGNING a 1-year rental works because 2015 money doesn’t mean anything and they can flip that player for prospects like they did with Feldman.
Castro had above .770 OPS last year. Only Peralta, Hanley and Tulo had higher ones. He is one of the top SS in baseball. And WAR isn’t the end all be all of statistics, OPS is a much better indicator. In 2013, Peralta’s defensive WAR was negative, but in 2014, all of a sudden, it’s one of the highest of all SS. That makes no sense. Using WAR to compare SS and a P is just stupid anyway. A 24 year old SS that is already a top 5 in mlb and is healthy and getting better and is cheap and until team control for 6 years is way more valuable than a pitcher that is a year away from being a FA. I don’t care if it is Zimmerman, Kershaw or Walter Johnson. No pitcher that will leave in free agency in a year is worth a 24 year old SS that already top 5 in the game, established and hasn’t hit his peak yet. I guarantee you, no GM would trade Castro for Zimmerman knowing Zimmerman will want 25 million a year and has had TWO ace years and only 3 good years in his career.
Lets go Cubbies! I’m all for trading for Hamels, but not if it means giving up Kris Bryant like one site reported. I could definitely do Zimmermann for Alcantara and/or Almora