We’ve heard recently that the Giants are only interested in premium arms, if they add to their staff. But Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com hears (Twitter link) that San Francisco is looking at several rotation options, but remains a “long shot” to actually pull the trigger on a deal to add a major starter.
Meanwhile, the Giants have at least inquired with the Reds on ace reliever Aroldis Chapman, Jon Morosi of FOX Sports tweets. The clubs have not exchanged offers, so it appears as if the discussions are rather preliminary.
While the Giants have not received the strongest work from veteran righty Santiago Casilla, or from top set-up man Sergio Romo, the club has received solid overall results from its pen. It remains to be seen how motivated they are to add a pen arm, but if the interest in Chapman is indication, San Francisco will look to the top of the market in that area as well.
Not sure what the Giants have that the Reds would want. Kyle Crick basically is their farm system at this point.
That’s what I was going to say; they seem like a “long shot” not to pull the trigger, but to have an offer than anyone would actually want.
They really could use Chapman too, as they have struggled to find a consistent closer ever since Wilson’s career went south.
The so called “Experts” have said for years that the Giants have no good prospects, but 3 world series rings in 5 years and an all home grown infield of Duffy, Crawford Panik, Belt and Posey…not to mention Lincecum and Bumgarner. I think the Giants have whatever it would take to get any of these big name trade prospects, maybe they just don’t want to give them up.
I mean now they have no good prospects. All of their former “good prospects” have now graduated to the big leagues. The Giants aren’t getting anything they need without trading from their big league roster at this point.
They were also saying “no good prospects” when Belt, Crawford, Panik, and Duffy were coming through the system. They’re a real tribute to the ability of the Giants’ system to identify and develop young players.
In the Post-Beard era, the Giants’ closers haven’t been *that* bad. Romo was pretty good at it for a while, and Casilla was solid if unremarkable after him. It’s just this season that both have had their struggles. Chapman would be a fantastic addition to the ‘pen and just make the entire group stronger. I’d rather the Giants acquire him than Hamels, TBH. We’ve seen so many October games won or lost in the bullpen.
Beede, Fox, Okert, Broadway, Arroyo, Oshich, Mella, Bickford, Shaw…… we have prospects
Is Barnhart a long term catching option or is he just a fill in? If he’s not long term Susac could be the centerpiece. I really don’t know the exact needs of the Reds, but Susac is probably our most valuable realistic trade chip.
Not even close. Crick has been moved to middle relief and is still struggling with his control there. Any trade for an impact guy would have AT LEAST Beede and Susac headlining it.
Last time I checked Beede was rated lower than Crick. And Susac is blocked by Posey so I think he ultimately does get traded. Perhaps they could work out a deal involving Susac and Chapman. Giants would have to throw in a few smaller pieces tho.
On the other hand, Crick’s absolute numbers have been terrific despite the walks. Guys like that have trade value because if he ever figures it out he could dominate. That’s why he was still the Giants #1 prospect (on lists that didn’t include Susac) at the beginning of this season. I’m not saying you could do Crick-for-Chapman, but it’s plausible that a team would want Crick, Susac and a more minor piece for Chapman. I don’t know enough about Cincy’s organizational philosophy to guess on that one. I wouldn’t be surprised if that sort of deal intrigued Detroit if they decide to move Price.
looks like you need to read up on their system. They aren’t a top system but they aren’t drained either. They have a MLB ready C in Susac, Tyler Beede, several good bullpen pieces, and a couple of other arms of intruige…
I just looked at their prospect ratings on MLB.com and Susac wasn’t on there because he no longer qualifies as a prospect, but you are right. I don’t see them getting Chapman without giving up Susac, but it’s not like they don’t have a perennial All Star catcher already…
Tyler Beede isn’t in MLB.com’s top 100 prospects.
There is plenty that other teams would want. The Giants have had a “horrible farm” forever, but look what that farm system has done…3 World Series in 5 years, an infield of Posey, Belt, Panik, Crawford, Duffy. A deep bullpen, seemingly endless effective SP…what team wouldn’t want that?
Susac is a stud young C and would be the man if he wasn’t behind Posey. Crick, Stratton, Mella, Beede, Blach, Mejia will all be in a rotation somewhere by 2017, Arroyo, Jones, Williamson, Garcia all look like guys who can be everyday guys in the next 2-3 years.
To top this all off, they have enough money to keep high profile guys if they see fit. That young infield (minus posey) is making less than 8 million this season, which opens up a lot of cash for areas of need.
Chapman could give the Giants the best bullpen in baseball, with the ability to take the ball in the 5th or 6th inning and close out games. This is the only move that makes sense for them this year. It just comes down to if the Giants want to send guys they know will make an impact these next few years for a big piece this year and next.
Crick isn’t even our best prospect. Granted our farm isn’t good but we should be able to get Chapman if we really wanted to. Beede, Fox, Okert, Broadway, Arroyo, Oshich, Mella, Bickford, Shaw all have good value still. I just don’t see the Giants being willing to give up more than one of them so I doubt they do anything.
Giants farm is ultra weak. Kyle Crick and Tyler Beede have control issues and are no longer top prospects as they were a few years ago. Its a real testament to their major league coaching staff to develop guys like Panik and Duffy who were middle of the road players in the minors.
Beede wasn’t even int he system “a few years ago.” Take away his last start, and he’s a solid piece, not enough for an impact player by himself, but solid nontheless.
He’s far from a solid piece. He’s pitched 45 or so innings and has 26 KO but has walked almost 20. Small sample size but that’s not a piece you’d start a conversation about regarding Hamels or Price. Not even Gallardo…Maybe Mike Leake
says the same guy who is touting a previously unranked DeLeon based upon a small sample size. And why exactly couldn’t Beede be a solid piece to a trade? The Reds took a pitcher taken in the same area of the draft as Beede and two lower level 3 starters. That’s something the Giants can do with their farm.
Before the season even started he was given a B/Borderline B+ grade by John Sickles. He’s had a good season so far so he’s likely a B+ now. It’s been reported that when teams call the Giants the first name they ask for is Beede. So yes, he is a very solid piece.
Tyler Beede was just drafted last year and dominated Single A. Not sure where you get control issues from. His last start was bad..
Do you realize that he is much older than he should be for Single A. Dominating single A as a 22 yr old isn’t all that impressive. Also look at the strikeout to walk ratio and that doesn’t impressive anyone. Real reason he isn’t in any major publication top 100 prospects list.
Do you realize that a strikeout to walk ratio has nothing to do with control issues? AA is right where he should be for a 22 year old. He is in the 50-75 range in mid season lists and just played in the futures game. Maybe you should do some homework…
What does futures game have to do with anything? Thats like a popularity contest. Actually the organizations send those players. K/BB ratio has everything to do with control. It means you aren’t walking people if you KNOW where you want to throw. But hey its all good you can keep putting your head in the sand if you want.
Actually WALK RATE has everything to do with control. K/BB has to do with COMMAND, which is what you described. Beede’s control has improved which is why he is now ranked higher in midseason lists, which you are conveniently ignoring.
If by “much older,” you mean over a year younger than the average player a high A, then sure. If by “much older” you actually mean “much older,” then: no.
I would agree with that. However, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t have terrible control issues. Can he turn it around. Sure. But looking at value at a static time point. He doesn’t have much right now.
He was busy winning the college world series… that’s why he’s 22. He didn’t play a full season in single A before getting promotion. He was just drafted!
Beede currently don’t have many strikeouts because he’s working on getting deeper into games plus he’s working on his 2-seamer cutter almost exclusively, rarely using his 4-seamer at the moment, so he’s leaving his high heat off the table for the most part right now. So given that, he’s been doing OK in AA, where he’s much younger than the league (he was also young for Advanced A as well).
That his name is reportedly coming up in trade talks speak to his value on the trade market.
But I would note that I would be shocked if he’s traded, we got rotation spots opening up in next couple of years with Hudson, Lincecum, Peavy leaving the rotation at some point.
The thing is, the Giants can’t trade for much without giving up much, and one thing they have been pretty good at during Sabean era is figuring out who to keep and who to let go among prospects. Way better than Beane’s record in avoiding giving up good prospects who become good players soon afterward, like Ethier, CarGon, and now Russell.
How much would they have to give up for say, a K-Rod?
Duffy for Shields.
I don’t understand how the Giants are linked to any top of the rotation arm to slot behind Bumgarner or a closer like Chapman. I get that they’re interested in them (like almost every other team is), but looking at their farm system, I don’t see any way they could pull off a big move even if they traded whoever they consider to be their top 3 prospects.
I don’t like to compliment the Dodgers or Red Sox too much, but I’d argue that each farm has at least 10 players that are better than the Giants’ top prospect (whether that’s Beede, Crick, or whoever is slotted there now).
They’re always linked to big names it’s just the way it is. As for their farm system, Giants have a knack for finding talent so I guarantee there’s more players in the farm who end up being a lot better than scouts see them. Also regarding the Dodgers farm system after Urias and Seager there’s a huge drop off in talent. The Sox might have ten players better than Beede, but not the Dodgers.
I admit, I exaggerated a little bit. And I don’t doubt the Giants having some good prospects in there. In reality, I’d obviously put Seager and Urias ahead of Beede, and I’d include De Leon, Holmes, and maybe Verdugo ahead of him. So probably 4-5 prospects ahead of him, whoops.
I guess I just can’t see the Giants having a realistic package that could land them one of those top talents.
And I agree with your statement about the drop off after Urias and Seager. Others will say “of course there will be a drop off when you’re talking about two of the top-5 prospects in all of baseball” but it’s that dropoff that makes me hope the Phillies end up trading Cole to the Rangers instead of the Dodgers. I like the probable Rangers prospects that should be available a lot more than what the Dodgers would probably offer in a package sans Seager or Urias.
Grant Holmes and Jose DeLeon are much more highly rated than Beede. He has awful control. Look at the K/BB ratio. Its dreadful. Also for him being at his age his K rate is pretty low, so he isn’t fooling anyone.
where exactly is Holmes more highly rated? At the beginning of the season, De Leon wasn’t rated. If you are saying that Beede has problems with control, you need to take a fresh look at Holmes. Holmes has a higher ceiling but lower floor than Beede, but they are about the same in terms of ranking.
Simple: The Giants have a MLB ready catcher who can hit and defend. I don’t think any other team has that. The also have about a dozen pitchers with a solid chance to be MLB starters.
Look how the Braves work: They just pile up decent MiLB pitchers and hope a few pan out. Other teams are doing that, too, including Cincy.
Hamels seems like a pipe dream. But guys on expiring contracts don’t. Cincy just traded two months of one of the best pitchers in baseball for a guy with arm problems who is likely a reliever (Finnegan)and two guys who have some chance at being mid-rotation starters down the road.
The Giants don’t have a Finnegan, but they have 10 guys who match up with the other two guys who moved in that deal. And they have Susac. Jeff Smardzjia will be significantly less expensive than Cueto. Also, Detroit and the Giants seem to have similar development philosophies, so if DET decides to move Price, the Giants might be able to make that happen.
I guess I wrongly assumed that Susac wouldn’t be on the table
I don’t think that Susac is on the table either, but I’m just speculating, much like everyone else, because Sabean has been very good at keeping his cards to himself for the most part.
Sabean maintains a “don’t trade” list that has mostly been very successful in not allowing good players from getting away via trades. A national columnist wrote about this just before last year’s draft, if I remember right, for USA Today, about how other teams should avoid trading with Sabean.
Frankly, I think the Giants know they have to keep Susac because of how deep a hit they would have if they should ever lose Posey for a significant amount of time (see Pence this season, don’t have to be catcher).
Christian Arroyo, Andrew Susac and the previously mentioned Beede and Crick, in some combination could land a good pitcher.
Also Keury Mella, Adaberto Mejia, Derek Law (just back from TJ)
Chapman is more of an intriguing option than a guy like Price for the Giants. Even though they don’t have much quality in the rotation behind Bumgarner, they have a ton of guys who can make starts in Cain, Heston, Peavy, Hudson, Vogey, Petit, and Lincecum if he gets healthy. I really doubt they have the prospects to get Chapman, but they could use a more reliable closer who throws hard (outside of Strickland, no hard-throwing options in the pen), plus he’s not a rental. Unless they want to make a bench upgrade, I’d assume they’ll stand pat at the deadline and wait until the offseason to make a rotation signing. A ton of salary will be cleared with Lincecum, Hudson, and Vogelsong coming off the books, and they could afford an expensive #2 guy without giving up any of the few quality prospects they have.
I just don’t see it that way. They have a decent setup guy and a decent closer, not to mention Strickland who is starting to look a lot better.
As for starters: they have a great #1 starter, but it’s question marks after that. Heston has been a really good #2 starter but has no MLB experience. #3 is a huge question between Cain and I guess Peavy. That looks like a lot more question marks at #2 and #3 starter (both musts for winning in the postseason, notwithstanding Bum’s heroics last year) than they do in the ‘pen.
Josh Osich was capable of hitting 95 on the radar gun. He looked good in place of the injured Jeremy Affeldt, but he’s probably one to look out for next season.
Shields would not require anything other than to eat contract.
Don’t think Padres would trade lets say Shields to any NL West Teams either
Honestly, I think this is much ado about nothing. This reminds me of when the Giants “were interested” in signing a slugger, but it turned out that they checked to see if he were willing to sign for $10M for one year, and he wasn’t interested, rumor over.
So I would imagine it went kind of like this: Giants asked Team A about their ace pitcher and what it would take from the Giants to get that ace pitcher, and Team A replies back, and that’s that, as they are probably asking for Beede and/or Susac, and maybe Mella or Meijia as well. There are a lot of bullpen arms that teams would be interested in as well, Okert, Law, Black, Johnson. And I would think Arroyo would be high on the list of some teams as well, probably Fargas as well, he’s been doing well too, and Williamson too.