The Mets and Brewers have recently had trade talks in which both third baseman Aramis Ramirez and shortstop Jean Segura were discussed, Jon Morosi of FOX Sports reports on Twitter.
It is unclear from the report how advanced discussions are, but certainly it does not sound as if any moves are imminent. Morosi tweeted in early June that the two sides had discussed position players, but this report appears to cover more recent exchanges.
New York is obviously in need of help on the left side of its infield. Third baseman David Wright remains a complete question mark for the rest of the year, while the club has moved Opening Day shortstop Wilmer Flores off of the position. In that regard, both Ramirez and Segura make some amount of sense. But the two players are obviously quite different sorts of trade targets, and it’s far from certain that they would represent much of an improvement.
Ramirez, 37, is a fairly expensive veteran ($14MM this year) at the tail end of his career. He’s had a rough first half at the plate, but has turned things around somewhat more recently. New York would obviously hope that he returns to hitting near his well-above-average career norms, but it’s hard to know how much he’ll contribute the rest of the way. It is also unclear what kind of alignment the Mets would utilize if they installed Ramirez at third. Presumably, Daniel Murphy would bounce over to second and Flores would slide back to short.
Meanwhile, the 25-year-old Segura comes with three more seasons of club control, all through arbitration. An approximately average shortstop, according to Defensive Runs Saved and Ultimate Zone Rating, Segura has yet to repeat his stellar 2013 campaign at the plate. He has shown some upside and remains young enough to dream on somewhat. But with Milwaukee surely putting a steep price tag on Segura, it it is particularly hard to ignore his .253/.292/.332 slash since the start of 2014.
On behalf of Mets fans, I’ll start this off by saying …. Ugh.
Eh, I had the same feeling as well until I checked Ramirez’s stats recently. Over the last month, he has a 118 OPS+. Ramirez could probably be had for next-to-nothing as long as the Mets take his salary. Worth a shot, he has hit in streaks this year and his 10 HR would be tied for 2nd on the team.
Segura, on the other hand–no thanks.
Gives it all or most back on D though. And of course negative base-running. He’s been below replacement this year.
Yeah, you’re right. Depends on how much they want the offense, but yeah. An infield defense of Flores, Murphy, and Ramirez would not be good.
If you buy into the fielding metrics, Ramirez is actually having a good season in the field (to the tune of a 5.3 UZR). I don’t necessarily buy into that particular metric, but I can say I’ve watched him all season and his defensive woes are rather overstated. He’s not out there losing any games with his glove, and he makes some pretty nice plays occasionally. So, to say he gives his offensive value “all or most back” on defense is a little bit off. But overall, you’re right, he’s not exactly a huge upgrade or something to be excited about (speaking as a Brewer fan who would honestly take anything we can get for him).
“as long as the Mets take his salary.”
You must not be very familiar with the Wilpons.
I am, very. It’s about $7MM with no future commitment. I could see them taking that on.
So far they have re’couped $6m-ish from insurance for David Wright….so they wouldn’t be double dipping to cover 3B.
Exactly. Not sure who’s downvoting me, but whatever.
Get something done before more teams become full blown ‘sellers’ and then the Brewers have no leverage.
Maybe, but I’m not sure the market will be flooded with SS…and there could possibly be a rebound market of teams that fail to address other concerns and decide to address 3B or SS instead.
With Matz going down for an indefinite amount of time, I think the Mets need to holdon to what they have. Those guys aren’t what they need right now, especially for high end returns.
I’m not sure the Brewers will actually get much back in return for either or both of these players. Maybe Montero as a headliner? That being said, you will get a boost at 3rd with veteran presence + a controllable MI’er with speed. You could do much worse.
Unless Segura has a big 2nd half ready to go, Flores is a better player I’m afraid. Aramis is maybe worth a shot — end-of-career types do sometimes have a dead cat bounce — but how are the Mets going to pay him? If they can afford him, heck, why not go get Tulo?
Does Montero have much value right now? He’s been injured for over two months with not much indication as to when he’ll be back.
No not really. He’s got a shoulder issue so if I’m acquiring him I will be doing a VERY serious medical work-up. There’s a chance he might never be anything now.
Sort of what I was thinking. I can’t envision a scenario where Montero is anything more than a throw-in and given his potential, I’m not sure the Mets would sell low like that.
Time to get a new owner, GM, trainer, and medical staff, they are the laughing stock of baseball!
Trainer? Sure. Medical staff? Sure. Owner? Sure. The GM’s honestly okay. Not great. Not terrible. Competent and uncreative.
I’ll never understand the huge interest in Segura. He’s below league average both offensively and defensively.
Half of all starters in the league are below league average. Segura has both the history of being better and the potential of rebounding. He had a horrible year last year, but a lot of that can be attributed to losing a child. No one is going to perform well when that happens. In 2013 he had a 4.0 WAR All Star season. That’s more than Flores is ever likely to get and buying low on Segura is a great idea.
Here’s the thing – “peak” Tejada is better than “career” Segura and “peak” Segura is better than “career” Tejada. One is not clearly better than the other, and neither is all that great.
It’s because he’s the type of player a team can dream on. Young, controllable, has the tools but hasn’t put it together. When dreaming on him, it also helps to look at his first half numbers in 2013. That’ll really get GMs dreaming.
Not sure why people think Segura is so great. He’s below average both offensively and defensively. For a guy with “speed”, he doesn’t have a very high BABIP that would really help his DISGUSTING OBP. 7 non-intentional walks in 277 ABs is horrible.
He had one tremendous first half right out of the gate…that’s where the fan fare comes from. But last year was tragic for him. Maybe it’s because he has a fun name to say….I’ve always had a theory that we tend to overate players with appealing names. If his name was John Seager we’d be ho humming. Of course, that overstates it….but there’s something to name appeal.
I watched Segura extensively through the minors and thought he was a good 3 year stop gap middle infielder or maybe later a utility infielder… I still believe that’s most probable
A question I’d ask is whether Ramirez is intending to retire after the season. If he’s playing for the hope of another contract, then he might be motivated to perform and would be worth the bat bag they’d have to give up. But if he’s going to be packing it in and is simply cashing a check, I’d rather hope that Wright comes back.
He already said he is retiring after the year. You don’t think making the playoffs and trying to win a World Series would be motivation for a guy that’s about to retire?
please god no. ramirez is useless and expensive and segura is just a faster ruben tejada. screw that noise.
Pony up and trade for Javier Baez to play SS, and convince the Dodgers to part with either Guerrero or Turner to play 3rd (Guerrero would need to be signed to an extension or he’ll become a FA after the season). Baez K’s a lot right now, but can hit a ton…..plus can play defense. Just Do It!
Baez isn’t doing anything a lot right now, so it might not do them much good for this year.
True…..forgot that he was hurt. They could also trade for Mike Olt (should be pretty inexpensive) in a package deal with Baez, suffer through this year, and have the left side set for 2016 (I think Wright is done, for the most part……:-(….)
Why would the Mets want Mike Olt? I don’t see how a guy hitting .190 in AAA could help them.
Baez for Wheeler their both out!
Except baez is already swinging a bat and will be back playing in a week. It would take wheeler, montero and nimmo for baez and olt and random low minors lottery ticket.
Why would you think Baez has more value than Wheeler? Both were top prospects and have tons of control remaining, but one has shown he can play at the MLB level and one has struggled terribly.
One has shown he can pitch like a Major League #3. The other has tremendous power potential. Big league #3s are common. Guys flashing 35 homer power are not.
Based on what, exactly? And if that package were all that it took, I’m sure the Mets would already have done it. That’s two injured pitchers and a 4th outfielder for a 30+ homer athlete.
The Mets would do that in a heartbeat if on the table.
Accidentally read that as “David Wright remains a question mark for the rest of his life.”. Aren’t we all…
Not in the same way as Wright……we’re all going to die, but I’m fortunate enough to be “old enough to be Wright’s Dad”, but still playing softball in the men’s league (18 yrs old and up)….lol
I actually have spinal stenosis, so Wright’s issues hit home…incredibly chronic.
Mets must have insurance on Wright’s contract, so they should have money to spend.
They likely do. I wouldn’t count on Wright ever returning to normal with that condition. Issue is that they still need to pay him when he’s active.
Anyone who follows the Mets closely knows that the player the Mets should be discussing with the Brewers is Gerardo Parra. Segura is no better than Tejada, and Segura is basically worthless vs RHP. With Daniel Murphy at 3B, the possibility of Wright coming back, and Flores who is probably best suited as 3B as well, why would add ARam? With the exception of Grandy, the Mets OF has been terrible. They need a LH bat to complement Lagares and Cuddy
Exactly. Parra should be had for cheap, plays decent defense, and hits righties well. He can also spell Lagares when necessary, though his ideal role would be platooning with Cuddyer.
As Woody Paige just said on Around the Horn, the Mets are the stupidest franchise in sports.
It’s a shame the mods haven’t banned you for trolling. The Mets, despite missing their best hitter for nearly the entire season and their 3rd best hitter for most of the season, are 2 games back in their division. That’s 2 games behind the team considered the best team in baseball coming into the season. It’s incredible how oblivious your comments are.
I sincerely hope that a deal happens before the Mets have the ability to reconsider again. I’m really starting to lose hope that we’ll be able to trade anybody outside of Lind or Parra in the coming weeks.
Parra and Will Smith are the only players on the Brewers that make sense for the Mets. Lucroy, Gómez, and Braun are two expensive. Nobody else represents an improvement for the Mets except for K-Rod, who isn’t ever playing for the Mets again.
Guerrerro is a nice bat, but he can’t play SS, which is the biggest need. Baez is the most intriguing player, but what do the Cubs want for him? Will they take Niese as the primary player to get it done? They can’t keep throwing Tejada out there and expect a different result. At least give Matt Reynolds a look!
The Mets’ biggest need is definitely not shortstop. According to FanGraphs, they’re 4th out of 30 teams in performance from short. I don’t necessarily buy that but it’s not a weakness.
Their biggest weakness is Michael Cuddyer. Their second biggest weakness is Lagares’ struggles against right-handed pitching. Parra would help with both and should be cheap.