The Cubs will likely pursue top starters this offseason, and Jeff Samadzija is a possibility as well, Paul Sullivan and Colleen Kane of the Chicago Tribune write. Samardzija, along with highly ranked pitchers like Zack Greinke and Jordan Zimmermann, were among 20 players who were extended qualifying offers. But GM Jed Hoyer says the qualifying offer won’t be a decisive factor for the Cubs, who currently have the 28th pick in next year’s draft. “(Losing a compensatory) draft pick is important. We’ve built this team through the draft in large part, and through trades,” says Hoyer. “But when you’re in a winning window, you look at that consideration differently than you might have when you’re building.” Here’s more from Chicago.
- ESPN Chicago’s Jesse Rogers has more from Hoyer, who confirms that the Cubs will be hunting for not just one starter this offseason, but several. “We want to add at least one [major leaguer] but we do need to impact our starting pitching depth,” says Hoyer. “We will look to add multiple starting pitchers at various levels of the organization. That’s the best way to say it.” That means that, in addition to elite starting pitchers, the Cubs will also be in the market for less expensive ones. Rogers adds that the Cubs’ focus on pitching this winter means they aren’t likely to spend heavily on Dexter Fowler, and won’t pursue an expensive replacement if he departs.
- The Cubs are, however, “doing homework” on top free agent outfielders Jason Heyward and Alex Gordon, Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago writes. Given their focus on pitching, it would be surprising, to say the least, if the Cubs signed either player, especially since they’re both corner outfielders and they Cubs have two promising youngsters in Kyle Schwarber and Jorge Soler currently penciled into the corners. It does, however, make sense for the Cubs to do their due diligence on just about everyone, given that they should have a fair amount of money to spend.
If they add Gordon, maybe they can deal Soler and Baez for pitching depth.
I like that. Should be enough for gray
Soler, Baez, Vogelbach & Edwards for Gray probably gets Beane thinking about it. Sonny Gray is minimum wage next year and is literally the only ace-level SP who will be paid next to nothing next year – the value of this cannot be given away at a discount – its one of the most valuable deals in baseball.
When the Cubs traded Samardzija and Hammels to Oakland the price was a 2 top 100 prospects and 1 bullpen arm. That was for arguably a number 2 and 3 starters. One of which had another year of control after that season. So you are telling me that Soler, Baez, and Vogelbach with another high ceiling arm couldn’t get a trade done for Sonny Gray an often injuries number 1 starter with 3 years of control? I know people fall in love with their players and fans fall in love with their prospects but not only would that get the deal done it would almost be an over pay.
Both Hammel and Samardzija combined did not have the trade value last year that Sonny Gray does right now.
“[he’s] literally the only ace-level SP who will be paid next to nothing next year”
Jacob deGrom says ‘hello’.
Not even close for Gray. Gray would require cleaning out the farm system, like Torres, Contreras, Happ, plus Soler and Baez.
The price for Samardzija and Hammels a number 2 with another year of control and a number 3 starter was 2 top 100 prospects and a bullpen arm and people thought Oakland over paid for that. So explain how Baez, Soler, Vogelbach and another arm doesn’t get it done for Gray and often injured ace that has 4 years of control left.
I agree that it would take more than was proposed, however your proposal would be too much. Yes, Sonny Gray is an absolute super star, but saying that the Cubs would need to give up two MLB starters, and their top 3 prospects is ridiculous.
No, it isn’t. Gray’s that good and the A’s are under no obligation to move him for anything less.
Thanks for the laugh.
Beane has already stated he’s not listening to offers on Gray. While this might just be considered talk to work the price up when it comes to most GMs around the game, Beane is usually pretty straight forward in this regard.
Even if Gray were on the trade block, Soler and Baez wouldn’t even get Beane to pick up the phone… nonetheless hang it up while laughing. Gray would cost a minimum of Soler, Russell/Torres/Baez, Edwards, Underwood/Johnson/Williams/Tseng/Cease, and Vogelbach/Candelario. That might not even get it done as someone like the Phillies, Astros, or Rangers could easily match and even beat it.
AVinny GarSac are you drunk or High
Gordon is staying in KC. I’d try for Heyward.
No don’t trade the farm for a stud
Price, Span, and a Lackey/Fister
I don’t want to pay Price what he’s going to cost and would rather they didn’t, but that sounds about right.
The price for Samardzija and Hammels a number 2 with another year of control and a number 3 starter was 2 top 100 prospects and a bullpen arm and people thought Oakland over paid for that. So explain how Baez, Soler, Vogelbach and another arm doesn’t get it done for Gray and often injured ace that has 4 years of control left.
What is this “often injured” part? Gray has missed all of 4 starts throughout his career…. since the day he made his MINOR LEAGUE debut. That’s not “often injured”. That’s “never has been significantly injured”.
Comparing Samardzija and Hammel to Gray is laughable. Neither of those guys had ever put together more than one strong half season in their careers prior to that trade, while Gray has shown that he’s one of the best pitchers in the game since his MLB debut. Hammel was a rental, while Samardzija was a 29 year-old with 1 year of control left… and headed to a nearly $10M payday in final arbitration eligibility. Oh… and more injury prone that Gray. Gray will be 26 next year, with 4 years of control left, will make at the very most $1M (and probably more around $750K), and won’t be arbitration elgible until after next season.
If price is north of $30 mil per……… i hope not. They could sign both cueto and Zimmerman I think for about $45-46 mil per combined. Would rather see that than just have them blow their load on 1 pitcher.
MLB Network ran comparisons of price and Lester. Both have similar ERAs, WHIPs, W-L records, K/9, etc over the last few years. Yet for some reason price is going to cost $6+ more million than Lester did last of season……. no thanks. If I’m paying $30+ million on a SP he has to be on the right side of age 30. Price isn’t. Unless they think he’ll improve considerably coming to the NL. Much like Scherzer did last year. Also, if he he “deserves” $30 mil annually I don’t go longer than a 6 year deal.
I hope someone smacks them in the head if they’re even just thinking about lackey. I mean, why? It seems you’re just spewing out this website’s predictions as your own. I have heard 0 rumors about the Cubs being interested in lackey other than on this site. Also, this site thinks lackey will get about $17 mil power season on this new deal. If that’s the case……. F*** NO. haha. Epstein already put his foot in his mouth on lackey when in Boston. Why would he risk looking like a fool twice on one pitcher. Whatever he paid him in Boston was way too much, and 17 mil now for him is way too much. The guy is 37 friggin years old….. and is historically just a mediocre pitcher. A #2 at best. Is the going rate for that ageing mediocrity really $17 mil? Might as well bring Edwin jackson back too while we’re at it.
I couldn’t agree more with this…Lackey doesn’t belong in “Cubbie Blue”
I’m fine with the Cubs looking at losing a draft pick differently, but they need to remain smart about it. I don’t believe you give up a draft pick for Jeff Samardzija after the season he just had, for example.
Yea I agree I don’t want samardjiza period
Agreed. I think he goes to a team with a protected pick.
Considering the Cubs have the 28th pick currently the difference between the value of that pick and the compensation pick for Fowler signing else where should be the real concern. Half a million in Draft pool allocation fund?
Is there a potential package without even including the Cubs rookies from last year that can get us Sonny Gray? I.e. vogelbach, Kyle Hendricks, Torres almora?
Not a chance in the world. If you take current major leaguers out of the equation, there isn’t a package the Cubs could put together that would beat what other teams would offer for Gray … and he’s not for sale anyway. Btw, Vogelbach isn’t worth anything. McKinney is the best chip in their system.
Soler, Baez, Vogelbach & Edwards for Gray is an opening offer that won’t make Beane hang up. Might have to add Happ or even Schwarber to it though.
If your Beane you give up the cheapest ace in the MLB for Soler (meh), Baez (still contact, K concerns), Vogelbach (Butler clone) & Edwards (RP)? I think adding Schwarber or sending Russell back would be required.
I agree with you. I said it was an “opening offer”. Baez did make huge strides and Soler is farrrr from “meh” – he broke out in the playoffs, on the grandest stage – expect a huge year from him in 2016. Edwards is also very solid closing prospect, and Beane has said he is actively targeting the bullpen this offseason. You are right though, all that plus Russell or Schwarber needs to be in the deal.
Also he’s not “my Beane”. I follow every team closely, its part of my job.
There are a few teams with deeper systems and more of a need for Gray than the Cubs. Just Boston alone (example), if they heard the rumor Beane wa negotiating.. Even talking trade with anyone with regards Gray? They could offer numerous top prospects many other teams, including the Cubs couldn’t match number wise and Boston is said to be seeking a front end starter this offseason one way or the other.
Devers, Moncada, Guerra, Kopech, Margot, Owens, Johnson. All top 100, several top 50’s on BA’s list.
Not to mention Swihart/Betts/Bogaerts as a few others who could headline the trade.
I think he meant if you’re Beane, like theoretically in billy beane’s shoes
“Also he’s not “my Beane”. I follow every team closely, its part of my job.” LOL. Trying to make himself feel important. It’s clear from his comments he doesn’t really follow anything but himself.
His “job” apparently requires him to use 1-year sample sizes while comparing a potential $80M+ FA to bench role players. All the while telling someone else they don’t know what they are talking about.
instead of starting these discussions out with Gray or Sale, who you think the Cubs should trade multiple quality players for, why not start with the other (and more realistic) end: what would the Cubs get for Baez or Castro + Hendricks, which is the likely package that is available? My guess is that wouldn’t be good enough for an “ace,” but you could still get a very good pitcher like Ross or perhaps Carasco with an additional prospect. After all, the Cubs don’t *need* Sale or Gray given they already have Lester and Arrieta. What we need is to not throw crappy guys like Jason Hammel out there in a playoff situation.
The Cubs aren’t trading their rookies who just made it to the majors. Bryant, Schwarber, Russell and Soler are no longer “prospects.” Moreover, Epstein has made it abundantly clear he values position players more than pitchers.
Vogelbach would be of interest to an AL team but he would be a toss in at most
I think a lot of Cubs fans have heard for too many years what a great farm system we have.
We did; now the good pieces are major-league talent and there’s not much in the way of impact prospects behind them.
Not entirely true. Yes, the super star prospects are in the majors, but there are still some potential impact players in Willson Contreras, Gleyber Torres, Billy McKinney, and possibly a couple arms (Duane Underwood and Dylan Cease).
None of them are Kris Bryant, but the cupboards are certainly not bear.
You don’t even bring up Elloy Jimenez who has the talent to be every bit as good as Bryant in a few years. Nor do you bring up Mark Zagunis who looks like a corner OF version of Mark Grace. Also, there’s the recently signed Eddy Martinez who is being compared to Andruw Jones. Carson Sands, Oscar De La Cruz, Jen-Ho Tseng, Ryan Williams, Ryan Hudson, and Justin Steele are all either 20 or younger… and have great potential to become impact arms.
As neither an A’s or CHC fan I think Baez, Solar + a decent prospect definitely gets it done. Baez and Soler are both quality major leaguers already and have plenty of room to grow. I think Baez, Soler and McKinney gets it done for sure
Actually, Torres, Underwood, and Contreras are probably the most valuable trade chips the Cubs have on their farm. McKinney comes in 4th… at best… as Williams might even outrank him in value now. Soler, Baez, Russell outrank all of them.
For Sonny Gray, a package probably starts with Russell
Agreed. Schwarber, maybe, as well.
Hayward for CF and then sign Zimmerman. Give Hayward an 8 year deal with an opt out at 5. He’ll hit the market again at 31 and sign another 6 year deal or so. Zimmerman will cost much less than Price. Arrietta, Lester and Zimmerman are a solid 1-2-3.
I think vogelbach is worth something to an al team.
DH prospects don’t have much value.
Why is it that Cubs and Red Sox fans think that they can give up spare parts that are blocked in their system for top of the rotation aces?
Yesterday someone proposed Hanley Ramirez and Swihart for Grey, lol. Made me think the same thing, always the Cub and Red Sox fans doing it.
I’m convinced all the Red Sox posters on this site are either 10 years old or the worst homers in the game. Cubs fans on here at least seem a little less insane but yeah, people need to have it beaten into their heads that Sonny Gray is not Josh Donaldson, Gray is one of a kind and has the most dollar value per year out of almost anyone not named Harper. He WILL require minimum two young MLB-seasoned studs and multiple prospects out of a teams top 5 prospect list.
What are you talking about? Every team has fans who overvalue their own players. They are the players that they watch everyday and know the most about. The Red Sox have a lot bigger fan base then most teams. Probably a top five team fanbase wise. So of course you have people who don’t know the value of other teams players. That said no one who knows anything about baseball is going to think Hanley has any value ( I think he will rebound but he has to prove it). The Red Sox and probably no other team are going to trade for Gray. Prospects have more value then they once did and noone wants to be the guy who traded the next Mike Trout or Babe ruth., and Gray would commend huge prospects. That said if a guy like Gray was to be moved it would be by someone like Beane. I couldn’t imagine what, but I’m sure he could come up with something creative if he wanted too, but even then he would still require at least two studs ( Devers/Esponsia + + Urias/De leon ++).
If Boston fans want Gray, you MUST start with either Betts or Bogaerts or just don’t bother posting. Which, is an option too.
You know, you don’t have to post ether? Your self importance and self assurance is irritating. Bett’s and Bogaerts are already worth more then Gray. The Red Sox have a top five farm system in the game.
Neither Betts nor Bogaerts are worth as much as Gray. Both might… MIGHT… get you Gray in 2 years.
Sorry but the facts dont line up with that. Gray is great but a star shortstop and center fielder are safer bets then a pitcher. Gray would get prospects in a trade. Not guys who have more WAR then him. Betts had 4.8 war and Bogaerts had 4.3. Sunny Gray had 3.8. If Boston offered one of those guys it would be an overpay. Bogarts and Betts, like Gray are legit Major Leaguers.
So far I’ve seen somebody suggest a bunch of prospects (Vogelbach included) for Harvey, and then have Duda moved to 3B. It’s best to just laugh it off and not take it seriously.
There’s a part of me that really wants to see the Cubs get Price, Greinke and Cespedes. That would be so cool.
Blocked players is not hoyers problem. We have depths that other organizations would love to have.
Right, but Cubs fans cannot expect to be taken seriously by only listing those depth parts in deals for Sonny Gray. Gray will require big league talent AND top prospects. Either come in with proposals along those lines, or don’t bother, youre wasting everyones time.
I said Torres
Not for Gray no but some of those spare parts will be much better than what some teams have in their whole system
I remember when Jake Arrieta was a failed, former top prospect spare part…. Then the Orioles traded him to a team that has a real pitching coach. I also remember when David Ortiz was considered a spare part… then the Twins taded him to a team that knew how to turn him around. Heck, I remember when Josh Donaldson was a “blocked spare part” in the Cubs’ organization…. yet he was the guy Beane targeted for Rich Hardin.
I think you are under valuing Baez and Soler while maybe over valuing Gray. I would trade Soler if they got Heyward. I believe Soler Baez Hendricks and Almora would get Gray and that’s overpaying.
I think more along the lines of Russell, one of McKinney/Almora and then a pitching prospect like Pierce Johnson to replace depth.
Gray is going to need 5+ players. That’s a given. Unless Cubs want to do Bryant-Gray 1-1, which is, lol, not happening.
I didn’t mean for that to be it but more of a starting point. Probably add in the catcher Contreras and another IF prospect or pitcher.
Baez isn’t that rare a player, and Soler comes with a $22M price tag. Gray costs nothing and he’s an ace who has had his best games in the postseason and in the must-win game 162 last year. Gray is unparalleled in terms of contract/performance from a pitcher. He’s like a more devastating Tim Hudson in his prime. He deserves to be valued highly.
Almora, while young and able to turn it around, is just not a good prospect – he’s 4+ years away right now, and Hendricks has been lit up in interleague games so far. Replace Almora with Happ and McKinney and you might be onto something.
Baez could quite likely become a rare player .His defense is elite and has genuine light tower power at a premium position. Just has to do something about his k rate (news to someone).
I also don’t think the cubs would have a problem swallowing Soler’s contract. Doing that means in essence you’re paying Gray $22M for the 4(?) yrs – well below market value
Go look at Gray’s stats before you continue to harp on this unparalleled ace crap. Gray is a great, young, controlled pitcher, but he sits around the 20s for many pitching metrics. That is not the super ace you make him out to be.
Undervaluing a mediocre RF and a 2B with contact and K problems and overrating Gray, the cheapest ace in the MLB? If anything, people are still doing the opposite.
The people undervaluing Gray are probably the same people that think Soler and Castro for Sale is a fair deal. He’s got one of the best contracts in baseball locked up for next 4 years.
How long until the Cubs are the Dodgers? 1-2 years? I see Price or Greinke, Lackey, and a serious move at Gordon/Heyward – because why not? Just like the Yankees and Dodgers.
Sucks for the Pirates and Cardinals who will just refuse to increase payroll and thus concede the NL central financially…
If they have a mega-TV deal come along to the point where overspending doesn’t matter, they will be. And a Sox fan living in Chicago, life would be hell considering all my life I got shit from fans of a team that’s never actually been good/competitive most of my friends and mind’s lives.
Yup, totally agree with you. Cubs have an absolute ton of money and only have Lester locked down to a big money deal. Starting in 2016, Rizzo is locked into a 6/59 deal and Soler 5/22. That’s nothing for elite level talent.
I see Price AND Greinke and Cespedes.
But its baseball and STL constantly has the best farm in the game so they’ll never be out of it. Pittsburgh is going to need to stand up and make a big sign to show they can play with the big boys too, or get bowled over.
One things for sure, the NL Central is easily the best div in MLB and MLB needs to change playoff structure so the best winning %s don’t have to do play-in games, thats pathetic and is exactly why the wild card was made in the first place.
They don’t need to change it yet. Not after only one season of that happening.
I will be surprised if it does not reoccur next year, Cubs winning the division and Cardinals and Pirates somewhat close behind (5 games or so).
The other day you said you saw Price and Greinke getting close to $300 million each. You think the Cubs are going to put what, $650 million into three players in one offseason?
You obviously have no idea about the cubs organization. They are under financial constraints due to the deal that Zell worked out to sell the team to the Ricketts.
Good point refuse to spend . Fans make them gazillion dollars and management acts like small market and mlb gives extra draft picks to cards
They are small market. Management is just smart. Though management is stingy. DeWitt does not like to open DeWallet… Ever.
Don’t see how cards are small market pack the place every game and beer is flowing like water
Google tells me that the St. Louis Metro area population is 2.8 million people, and I have to tell you, after living in St. Louis for three years, it felt like a lot less.
Successful management of the organization does not create a “large market” around it. The success exists in spite of the small market.
I think the best thing the cubs can do is sign jordan zimmermann and john lackey. I know lackey doesn’t sound right for most cubs fans but he would bring another veteran presence in the rotation and has a lot of post season success. Zimmermann is a bulldog and will cost less then price. Also, the cubs could make a package to get a young controlled ace.
Can someone enlighten me on when these lackey rumors started? Why on God’s green earth would Epstein risk looking like a fool twice on the same player? It wasn’t that long ago people thought lackey should retire….. that’s how mediocre…… bad he was.
Can someone please explain to me how Sonny Gray deserves to bring in 3 times as many prospects and players as Josh Donaldson the 2014 runner up for AL MVP and probable 2015 AL MVP? Josh Donaldson was making very little and flat out raking on both defense and offense and yet he was worth less than a often injured pre arbitration ace that has never finished in the top 5 in Cy Young voting?
I think Gray would cost one player on the roster, atleast 1 top prospect and then a couple other prospects
The Donaldson deal was completely under the radar with no other teams bidding so using it as a comparison tool isn’t really a great idea. I don’t think anyone understand why Beane thought that was a good decision.
If “no other teams were bidding” than Beane is awful at his job.
I like gray but why trade for him? Keep Schwarber soler Baez and price grienke just cost you money. Throw bags of money at them . Theo always says draft hitting buy pitching. 3 years down road Schwarber soler Russell will be more valuable then gray. Hitters make a difference every day a pitcher once every 5 days
Maybe the cubs just buy for pitching, but I would rather have them get Zimmermann and Lackey. Price and Greinke would cost them way too much. Plus they will also want to give Arrieta an extension down the road
How about Zimmerman leake? 2 better then one but playoffs with Lester arrieta and price wow
Not sure if Leake has a lot of post season success like Lackey
True. Lackey close to Lester and Ross . He is 37 so 2 years I’m good with then underwood Edwards or Johnson will be up pitching . Leake was a red so no post season experience
I think the angels make a move for leake, they need a pitcher, I see a lot of angels fans saying they do need an ace, I kinda think they do but I think they just need a middle of the rotation arm like Leake. I see them trading a pitcher to get maybe a bat. Think the cubs could do a trade with the angels. Let’s say the angels put shoemaker and Santiago available.
I’d love to see the Cubs sign Zimmermann and Leake.
David Price is most people’s dream, but I think Zimm/Leake could provide just as much impact, at likely a lower overall cost, and provide insurance in case one gets injured.
It would also be interesting if they take a chance on a reliever like Greg Holland. He’ll be out this year rehabbing, but it could be a lower cost option to really bolster an already improved pen.
Center field will need to be sorted out too, but I don’t see that being quite the priority that the rotation is.
As much as we all want Sonny Gray, it’s not going to happen. The Cubs would need to include some combination of Soler/Baez/Schwarber (likely two of them) and prospects. That’s too much, even if Gray is a super star.
If there is a team that would risk selling the future for an ace like Gray, I would say it’s between the cubs and the red sox
Why is everyone seemingly obsessed with Sony gray on this site in the comments sections? Bane had already said he doesn’t plan on trading either gray or Reddick. That being said, why do you all want him so bad? He’s going to cost an unreasonable amount. I think guys like tyson ross and jose quintana who are just as likely attainable would cost way less yet are just about as good as gray.
While it may seem odd that the Cubs would be “doing homework” on Heyward and Gordon, it makes some sense. They could sign one of the to a major deal, then turn around and use a package around Jorge Soler and one of the middle IF trio of Baez, Russell, and Castro (perhaps even Alcantara as a throw-in) to solve other areas. They could trade for someone such as Kluber or Carrasco from Cleveland for Soler (Kluber would require more, but Carrasco for Soler and perhaps a middling prospect like Vogelbach, Johnson, Candelario, etc might be a good fit). They could also turn around and try to send Castro to San Diego for Shields in a bad contract (Shields) for lesser bad contract (Castro), change of scenery sort of deal. From there, they could sign someone like Span, re-sign Jackson, or trade for someone like Charlie Blackmon (arb elgible this year), AJ Pollock (if he’s made available), Aaron Hicks (make room for Buxton), or (oh so not likely) Adam Eaton in order to fill the CF vacancy…. or even spend the $$ on bringing Fowler back.
Granted, it does seem much more likely that the Cubs will use whatever salary room they have on someone like Price, Cueto, or Greinke… it is plausible they could get the sort of pitching they are looking for in trades while spending that $$ on other areas.
I think the Cubs should sign Hayward to an 8 year deal with an opt out after 5. He’ll hit the market again at 31. Play him in CF. Then sign Zimmermann instead of Price. Arrietta, Lester and Zimmermann is an awesome 1-2-3.