The Cardinals and Rays are discussing a trade that would send a starting pitcher from Tampa to St. Louis, FOX Sports’ Jon Morosi tweets. Morosi does not say who that pitcher might be, but notes that Jake Odorizzi grew up not far from St. Louis. This wouldn’t be the first time Odorizzi’s name has come up in trade rumors this week — the Rays have reportedly recently talked to the Dodgers about him.
The Cardinals can use starting pitching help — Lance Lynn will miss the season after having Tommy John surgery, and John Lackey has headed to the Cubs. The Cards have seen several top free agent starting pitchers to whom they’ve been connected this offseason head to other teams. They’ve also lost a crucial position player, Jason Heyward, to the Cubs, causing them to lose ground against a key divisional rival.
Odorizzi, still just 25, posted a 3.35 ERA, 8.0 K/9 and 2.4 BB/9 in 169 1/3 innings in an excellent second full season in Tampa Bay. If in fact Odorizzi is the pitcher the Rays and Cardinals are discussing, the Rays would surely seek a steep return — he isn’t even eligible for arbitration until after next season and can’t become a free agent until after 2019, so there appears to be no urgency for the Rays to trade him. Odorizzi and the Rays have also recently had extension talks, although the progress of those talks is unclear. Of course, if the Cardinals are pursuing a pitcher other than Odorizzi, the Rays have other starters who would likely command significant value, including Drew Smyly and Matt Moore.
I’m verrrrrrrrry intrigued on potentials.
I hope that Rays-and-Cardinals fans can step it up and come up with some ballpark possibilities.
Not sure what roster needs the Rays have…but how about Adams/Greg Garcia/ Tim Cooney for Odorizzi?
Well the Rays will most likely want strictly prospects and a package of something along the lines of Flaherty/Gonzales, Sosa, Plummer. Now will the cards agree to that kind of package (or something similar) I doubt it, the problem is that young pitching like they have seems to be the thing in demand right now, and with the Dbacks paying so much for Millar, someone is probably going to give the Rays what they want.
The Pirates answer to “causing them to lose ground against a key divisional rival.” is Ryan Vogelsong. Boom!
My thoughts exactly Chiburgh! I am a fan of Huntington, but him trying to make us swallow Vogelsong, while the Cubs and Cards get ‘real’ SPs is very disheartening.
cards haven’t gotten any SPs yet man they have actually lost two.
They can’t sign a big name pitcher though. If they did sign a guy to a deal worth $10 million plus (which is hard for them considering they traded Walker because he was projected to make that and Melancon, or however you spell his name, is too) it would most likely tie up future cap space unless it was a one year deal (and you’re not going to get one of the better pitchers on a one year deal, maybe Fister or Latos). Pirates need that future cap space if they have any hope of resiging Cole/McCutchen or any other of their starters.
Cutch and Cole are good as gone, imo. I’m not suggesting signing someone like Price or Grienke, but simply bridging the gap, with clearance rack shopping, to Taillon, Glasnow, etc. is quite upsetting.
3 straight playoff years. They deserve the benefit of the doubt and also need to realize they will need to reload at times rather than buying players on the market. Off season isn’t over yet so let’s take a deep breath.
I’m as happy as the next guy about the previous 3 season of winning baseball, but the pressure needs to be continuously applied. Teams around you are getting better.
I realize the off-season isn’t over, but spending money on Serpico and Volgelsong is money that could have been spent in a wiser fashion.
There is no cap in baseball, what are you talking about?! Thats whats wrong with the pirates, theyve been operating under a cap that doesnt exist all these years!
What would this do to the starting pitcher market?
Nothing really. The Cardinals don’t seem to have much interest in anyone still available.
I wish it is Alex Cobb that guy is great.He pitches like an ace or Archer but he is untouchable he is not likely to be traded.So my guess is Odorrizi.
I don’t think it will be Cobb. He had UCL repair in like June so I don’t think he’ll be ready at least the All Star break.
I don’t think it will be Cobb. He had UCL repair in like June.
I dont think it will be… oh
Being a Rays fan man, you don’t want Cobb, I mean he’s great for sure, but hes not coming back from TJ till late in the season, then only has one year left on contract. (I think)
I’m sure it won’t be long before we hear that Cardinals have added Mark Buehrle on a one year deal. He’s been talking about that scenario since ’03
he retired
No he didn’t. He said he was going to retire, then he backtracked and said he hadn’t decided yet. His retirement has not been announced.
If I remember correctly, I heard him say he would retire unless he had a chance to play for the Cardinals.
I hope the cardinals stick with a guy like Odorizzi or Smyly if they go with the trade market in their search for a starting pitcher. Both are young, cheap, and controllable, and extremely effective thus far in their careers. Remember, Smyly was the key piece in the David Price deal while Odorizzi was involved in the James Shields deal, along with Wil Myers. This would be better for the Cardinals than an Archer or Sonny Gray, as they probably won’t have to send the whole farm over to get them. I do not think the Rays will let Odorizzi go cheap though. I also still see the Cardinals in play for Mike Leake, and wonder if they could even possibly get both. Need at least one.
Expect the Rays to ask for like 3 of your top 10 prospects (though Reyes wouldn’t be touched of course.) They would be looking for a Flaherty/Gonzales, Sosa, Plummer kind of trade, though I doubt the cards would agree to that kind of package.
I think Odorrizi will get moved by the Rays, the Cards need to improve to compete with the Pirates and Cubs who might be better teams on paper. Wainwright is 35, and Halloday and Molina are no spring chickens. All have had injuries.
Grichuk Wacha Martinez piscotty their going to be fine
Just get something done Mo.. Youre gonna start another riot here in St. Louis if you wait any longer.
Also, it will be interested to see what the Rays are looking for in return. They are likely to be searching for Major League ready or close to ready position players, or they wouldn’t be dabbling in giving up a controllable SP. Maybe a Matt Adams or one of the Cardinals young OFs like Grichuk or Tommy Pham is involved. I think Adams is the most likely of that group to be sent over. Tampa would be intrigued by his power, but he already seems to have fallen out of favor in the STL. Also, the Cardinals love Randal Grichuk, and I expect him to be the everyday center fielder.
They don’t have a huge need for a 1B as they have Loney and Morrison. If the Cards were willing to take back Loney then I could see a deal there, one that actually might lower the price of the deal by a little bit. Rays are almost desperate to get rid of that contract, attaching him to Odorizzi would be a good way to trade him.
The Rays’ return prospect wise would go down significantly if the Cardinals are willing to take on Loney. On paper, Loney would actually make sense by filling a need at 1B.
That said the Rays would be hurting themselves by packaging Loney with Odorizzi.. While it’s no secret they want Loney’s contract gone, you are talking just one year until he’s out. Saving that $8MM now vs having it come off the books in 2016 isn’t going to make a huge impact. You’re better off trading Odorizzi on his own and the deepest haul possible.
I think the Cardinals should explore getting another team involved here.
Grichuk and Piscotty aren’t going anywhere.
They better not. All are young, very high ceiling, talented, players.
Gonna be exxxxx pensive …. The Dbacks really messed up the market for young controllable starting pitchers. If I’m the Rays I don’t touch this without Reyes going the other way. Maybe I’d consider Grichuk or Piscotty plus.
Don’t worry Pirates fans. Latos will sign to be a Buc soon enough. The Cards are going to have to pay for Oddy. Adams. Wong , 1 of the 2 could headline a deal. Jacob Wilson screams TB. he is a the type of player the Rays tend to have or go after.
Cardinals wont trade Wong, Adams, and a prospect for Odorizzi. Thats way too much and they are not in the market to trade Wong anyways. Im sure Adams and possible cash or a AA prospect would get the deal done.
Adams has no value. The only way Adams goes is if another more significant player gets attached to him in a deal.
For anyone significant, the talks are going to start with someone like Piscotty or Reyes. I guess Reyes could a PTBNL since I don’t think he can be traded now due to his suspension? Someone clarify that for me if I’m wrong.
You’re so far off. Reyes isnt going anywhere neither is Piscotty. Adam does have value. He was just hurt last year. He has a ton of pop as well. This is all speculation anyways. We dont even know which pitcher is being discussed.
The Rays, like many teams, already have a Matt Adams type player in their system. Power hitting first baseman with no defensive value. He’s worth more to stl than anyone else.
adams is a pretty good fielding first baseman from what I’ve seen. he has trouble with some, not all, left handed pitchers. remember the playoffs last year? he took kershaw and another left hander deep.
“You’re so far off. Reyes isnt going anywhere neither is Piscotty. Adam does have value. He was just hurt last year. He has a ton of pop as well. This is all speculation anyways. We dont even know which pitcher is being discussed.”
First off, let’s not be naive. I doubt the Cardinals are salivating over Matt Moore or Erasmo Ramirez. If these reports are true, I think we can safely assume the pitcher being discussed is Odorizzi.
Second, I never said they would be traded. I said talks will start (with the implication that they will end) with either of those players. As a Cardinals fan, I don’t wait either one of those players touched.
Finally, as for Adams, you could not be more wrong. He’s an injury prone first baseman with no power and an inability to hit lefties. Platoon/bench guy at best.
adams, injury prone? goes on dl for a while and now he’s injury prone. you sucked on a bottle as a baby, are you prone to be a sucker for bottles now?
I can see Adams and Pham being in a deal.
Out of all of the Rays trade talks I see this one as the most realistic. The Cubs and Dodgers horde those prospects like they are gold and never fail. The Cardinals however have shown a willingness to move prospects (Heyward, and Moss deals). Probably because they have so many underrated prospects who go on to shine. Plus the Cards have Matt Adams who could intrigue the Rays.
Not sure I see a match with the Cards. Like the Dodgers, most of the Cards’ good prospects are pitchers. And the Rays have those in spades. I assume the Rays want hitting prospects, Unless the Cards are willing to use Piscotty or Grichuk (or maybe Wong?) as bait, I don’t see it. Or they could of course use Reyes, but I doubt they’ll do that.
Also, ever since the Miller trade, young, controllable SP’s have gotten extremely expensive.
I was talking more in terms of willingness to move players of value. The Cubs actually match up the best, but they are looking for something for nothing. And the Rays dont operate that way. The price for cost controlled SP is way higher then it ever has been before, and both the Rays and the Indians are smart to hold out for the right offer on their guys.
I wouldn’t say something for nothing. Baez and Soler are names that have been discussed and are Former Elite prospects that they would be selling low on them right now. Also people come back with arguments like the Cubs and Dodgers should have to include 2 of their top 10 prospects just like everyone else. That’s an insane asking price of those farm systems because their 10-20 guys are as good or better than a lot of other teams top 10.
Soler dosen’t work because of the money he is owed. I know that seems silly beacuse he is never scheduled to earn more than 5m. But this is the Rays, and if Soler busts were stuck owing real money to him. And Baez has one carrying tool. Its definitly a splashy tool, and not many players can do what he does. But he is such a risk to become a complete black hole hes not worth it. The Royals just won with a bunch of high floor safe offensive players, not splashy power hitters.
Would be particularly interesting if Wong is in the deal. His younger brother is a 2B in Tampa Bay’s system.
It will be interesting to see if Friedman is bested yet again in his pursuit of pitching.
the dodgers are going to end up selling the farm for either salazar fernandez or sonny gray
What are the options that the Rays would want? An outfielder or middle infielder? Maybe Pham and/or Diaz and prospects.
Just spitballin’
Who is the Rays worst SP? That’s who they are discussing.
Anyhoo, moving Adams is intriguing with Holliday trying out a move to 1B. Would love to see that move and then sign a FA OF power bat. A fan can dream.
Although, I’m not throwing a party because the Pirates signed Vogelsong, I disagree on your thoughts. I don’t believe Vogelsong was signed to be in the rotation but to be the long man. Also, who knows but maybe Searage has spotted something on this guy and lobbied for it. I’m just not going to overreact to this because I truly believe they are not done.
would think Wong or piscotty would have to be in return. Tampa doesn’t need pitching prospects and Adams doesn’t have much value to them. Can’t really see them wanting or needing anyone else the cardinals have.
Do they really need Wong? Forsythe is better, they just gave up a lot for Brad Miller plus they have Longo for another decade or so.
That’s why a deal for odorizzi seems unlikely to me the cardinals just don’t have the pieces unless it piscotty + prospects. Matt Moore seems a more likely target for stl.
Don’t see the Cardinals parting ways with Wong. He has shown flashes of brilliance time and time again. The raw talent is there. He just needs to fine tune his game in some areas and become more consistent. The upside is still tremendous.
With respect to my fellow posters, I don’t believe Odorizzi is involved, I think it’s Matt Moore. Moore is due $5 mil in 2016, then team options for the next 3 years of $7, $9, and $10 mil. The Rays would surely like to move that contract, especially with Moore less than a year removed from Tommy John surgery. Matt Adams and a mid-level prospect would probably get a deal done. Remember, the article doesn’t identify the pitcher, it just assumes it’s Odorizzi. And the Rays would need a boat-load of prospects for him, something the Cardinals simply do not have. Write it down: Matt Moore.
Not sure what you mean “the Rays would surely like to move that contract”. I guess I look at that contract and don’t think it’s as bad as you make it sound. Moore has potential he’s just often injured. Definitely a buy low option right now. He’s basically in a contract year every year for the next 4. If it doesn’t work out you let him go.
Personally, I do not think the Rays would move Moore in a time like this, which is a buy low opportunity. He’s not far removed from being one of the best young pitchers in the game. I think they’ll see how he bounces back from his first “normal” offseason in a while before exploring the trade market for him. I see him as a major bounce back candidate this year if he stays healthy (which is the glaring question).
Well with the Rays looking to add outfield help, maybe we could possibly see a swap of Grichuk or Piscotty for Archer.
Ha ha ha ha yeah right. Keep dreaming
I couldnt care less if this trade happened either way, if you look at the name, Im clearly neither a cards nor a rays fan.
YEah I see your a Boston fan but youre still in LA LA land with that idea.
First of all archer is untouchable as explained multiple times…. Second thats a huge lowball
No ones untouchable, and I do agree that would be a bit of a one sided deal, but I can see a trade of that magnitude developing. The cards like young stud flamethrowers and Archer would be a perfect fit for them. Hes got an extremely team friendly deal which will cost the Cards a bit more in return so I could see something along the lines of Grichuk, Matt Adams (maybe to use as a DH until Loney is gone) and Marco Gonzales. That would be a trade worth exploring. And if not, throw in a AA as well.
That’s not nearly enough for Archer. That deal is arguably less than what the Dbacks gave up for Miller and Archer is much more valuable. Archer is currently the most valuable pitcher in baseball and the type of player the Rays need to compete. It would take an absolutely huge deal to pry him away.
Did I just read “Archer is currently the most valuable pitcher in baseball”?
I’m out. Turning off notifications from this comment thread. Y’all really do have some strange drugs down there in Florida.
Solid response Brian. Since your “out,” I won’t spend too much time educating you, however Archer’s talent, results and contract combine to make him the most valuable pitcher in baseball.
Since you brought “education” into the conversation, how about educating yourself in the proper application of the English language. The proper use of “your” in YOUR last comment should’ve been “you’re”. One expresses possession, the other is a contraction meaning “you are”. Which is what you meant.
Yes, I have resorted to grammatical errors. It’s not YOUR fault though. YOU’RE from Florida.
Hahaha. Touché sir. It’s an error I rarely make, but did here. Not the best excuse, but I was on my phone with my kids around and didn’t catch it. However, my point still stands about Archer. An ace entering his age 27 season, signed to a 6 year/$41mm contract with the last 2/$20mm team options, makes him the most valuable pitcher in baseball.
Glad to see you’re a good natured, Dude. Archer absolutely has tremendous value. Just not sure about the most. Anyhoo, it was someome else who brought up Archer. I’m not the smartest fella around, but I’m not a moron. It would take an absolute haul for him.
Rays already have enough 2nd baseman SS and 1st baseman so it will have to be an outfielder and maybe a pitching prospect moved to tampa
The Rays will probably look for more than just Grichuk or Piscotty but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a trade of that magnitude happen.
st louis would be foolish to trade anyonecright now. there are enough available free agents to sign
I don’t think a limited fielding left fielder (holliday), will make it at first base.
Some of these scenarios are laughable. I’ll clue you all in so that we may be able to move on to more probable outcomes. Neither Grichuk, Piscotty, Wong, or Reyes are going anywhere. It is not happening. If those are players that are a must include for this to go forward, then it won’t be going forward. We’ll just go in house with Lyons or Gonzalez.
How about Adams and Reyes for Odorizzi, Guyer/Jennings and Daniel Robertson (ss prospect)? Cards have questionable depth in the rotation even with Lyons/Gonzalez and Wainwright’s health in a division with the hitting of the Cubs and Pirates. They can sign an OF’er thru FA but there are no more decent starters left.
Now that’s intriguing. What little I just read on Robertson seems to indicate there is potential there. It looks over as though we’re grooming Aledmys Diaz as the future once Peralta’s contract is over, but I’m not exactly sold on him. By all accounts though, Reyes is special. Highly regarded in and out of the organization, so the Guyer/Jennings probably wouldn’t do it. That and the fact that we’re pretty happy with Pham at the moment who will be our 4h OF. I like your thought process though.
A lot will depend on if the Cards sign a FA OF’er. Holliday, Grichuk and Piscotty is good (Pham as the 4th) but also thin with Holliday’s age and injury concerns and Piscotty also the back-up, everywhere it seems, if needed.
This is all predicated on Adams involved in the trade and Moss only having one year left. Guyer/Jennings is just added depth if they were interested. Robertson might be the bigger get as he may be only one year away while Sosa is probably 3/4 years away.
Speaking of F/A OF’s…….does anyone have any info on Upton’s status? I’d like to see the Cards kick the tires on him. I like his age and consistent power. He strikes out a lot (who doesn’t these days?), and his defense is not stellar, but he has that impact bat we need exactly. He would immediately slot into the 3 hole. With Heyward’s 8/184, what does Upton get? 7/140? That’s my initial guess. Opens up all kinds of possibilities. Trade Adams for anything of value. Piscotty full time at 1st. Now you’re looking at Holiday, Grichuk, Upton. Pham at 4, and Moss platooning at 1st and LF. Moss has to be considered for 16′. The Cards didn’t pick up that option so he can ride the pine. With any luck, he may bounce back a bit. If that happens along with enough playing time, I think 20/60 isn’t impossible. I can hope, right?
Those names in a trade wouldn’t happen on the Rays front most likely. The Rays are stocked up on outfielders, pitchers, and middle in fielders. Especially in the latter two because there is a log jam at second and short, and Tampa currently have six outfielders. Adams would be interesting though. He would be a potential fit for Tampa, but the buy could be low on him since he had a injured year. Having a guy who can mash, maybe hitting behind Longo would be great.
don’t write off pham as a 4th outfielder. he may start
I can’t see the Rays doing that. Guyer and Adams are a wash. Both are average players with 3 years of control remaining. I don’t see the Rays trading Odorizzi and Robertson for Reyes. It doesn’t make sense for the Rays. At all.
Why would the rays want adams we already have 3 1st baseman mortison loney and richie shaffer and rays wouldnt trade odorizzi mainly for another pitcher..
And the rays would laugh at the offer robinson guyer jennings and odorizzi for reyes abd matt adams what drugs are you on?
Some of those players would obviously be included if the deal was for Archer…
Thanks, Red Sox dude. Like I said, then it won’t happen. Why don’t go worry about righting your own ship up there in Bean-Town. Wong, Grichuk and Piscotty could possibly slot in as our 2, 3, and 4 hole hitters with Holliday down to 5 and Peralta at 6. So, yeah. Those guys aren’t going anywhere.
Sorry, guess i forgot you made decisions for the Cards…
Its a good thing you dont make decisions for the cardinals thats for sure..
Reyes, Gonzales, Adams n Pham for Longo and Odorizzi(+random prospect?) . Make it so Moz.
Reasonable. Definitely a win now move for the Birds. I always hate having to evaluate players on stats and metrics alone. There’s something to be said about watching these guys on a consistent basis. Let me ask all of you this: 2015 Bird’s starting rotation, where does Oderizzi slot?
I’d say 5th. All parties being healthy, i don’t see him as being better than Wainwright, Wacha, Garcia, or Martinez.
That’s a terrible proposal. One legit prospect, a swingman, a platoon 1b and a 4th OF for Longo and a low end #2 SP with 4 years of control. No way does one prospect and 3 spare parts get you Longo and Odorizzi.
With all the trade talks the Rays have been involved in and all the deals that never came to fruition, i’m guessing the Rays are seeking something along the lines of what the Braves got for Miller, maybe a little less. I’m honestly glad they aren’t just making trades for the sake of making trades (like the mariners for instance) and they are carefully considering the implications of each trade move. Of couse, as a fan I want to see them go out and get a big bat, but they honestly don’t really need anything right now. We’ll see…
Forgot the Cards got Gyorko earlier this off-season. Wong would be a good get for the Rays.
They already have Wong’s brother in the minors, n you know what they say about two Wongs….
Best. Username. Ever.
Rays should get a big return for a young SP like Jake or Drew Smyly or Matt Moore and they already have a good 2B in Forsythe. I don’t think they should trade Archer unless they get a significant offer of MLB-ready prospects. But as for The other SP on the Rays an outfielder like grichuk or Piscotty would be a good return for Odorizzi or Smyly.