It’s been a busy week at MLBTR, and we’re just now catching up on some reactions to one of the week’s major moves: the three-team deal in which the White Sox received star third baseman Todd Frazier from the Reds. The Reds, of course, got infielders Jose Peraza and Brandon Dixon and outfielder Scott Schebler from the Dodgers, while the Dodgers received righty Frankie Montas, infielder Micah Johnson and outfielder Trayce Thompson from Chicago.
- The Reds got surprisingly little in return for Frazier, ESPN’s Keith Law writes (Insider-only). Peraza, the key to the Reds’ end of the trade, is a potentially terrific defender at second base and a very fast baserunner, but he’s coming off an underwhelming season and doesn’t have much in the way of power or patience. Schebler, meanwhile, merely looks like a potential fourth outfielder, and Dixon might not even be a significant prospect. The White Sox did very well in the deal, Law writes, and the Dodgers got good value, although it’s unclear why they didn’t just acquire Frazier themselves, since they had what the Reds evidently wanted.
- MLB.com’s Jonathan Mayo, meanwhile, wonders why the Reds didn’t just cut the three-team deal off at the pass and trade directly with the White Sox, who gave up three young players who appear to be better than the ones the Reds ultimately got.
- After adding Frazier and Brett Lawrie, the White Sox could continue to make moves, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale writes. They could deal outfielder Avisail Garcia or first baseman Adam LaRoche if they can find a trade partner, and dealing one of those two players could conceivably allow them to sign Yoenis Cespedes or Justin Upton. (I’d counter that Garcia, who projects to make just $2.3MM next season, shouldn’t be a significant obstacle to signing Cespedes or Upton if that’s really what the White Sox want to do, and that it should be difficult for the team to clear much of LaRoche’s salary in a trade.) The Dodgers, meanwhile, could now use their collection of prospects to trade for Jose Fernandez, or failing that, someone like Danny Salazar, Carlos Carrasco, Sonny Gray or Tyson Ross.
- The White Sox expressed interest in Frazier at the beginning of the offseason, Reds GM Dick Williams tells MLB Network Radio (link to audio). The Reds and White Sox did have discussions about a two-team trade, but the Reds preferred the package of players the Dodgers brought to the table. Williams adds that one factor in the deal was the strength of their competition in the NL Central, which meant that their best chance of success was to gather prospects and build a team that could be successful “a couple of years” from now. Williams also notably says that teams have continued to discuss with him the possibility of trading for Aroldis Chapman despite the domestic violence accusations against Chapman.
The Reds liked the Dodgers package over the Sox? Yeah, that makes no sense to me, but to each their own.
Am I the only one that thinks the Dodgers made out like bandits, the ChiSox did okay, and the Reds got absolutely mugged?
I think that’s how most people feel about this trade.
None of the players the Dodgers got have a particularly high ceiling. You might not be the only one to feel that way, but your solace is in the fact that others are wrong with you. The Dodgers come out last.
You’re not the only one at all. I said so much to that effect in another forum, especially with the Dodgers intake on this trade and last year when they moved Olivera. Teams are just bending over for them it seems. They’ve managed to turn Olivera into a number of assets.
Olivera and about $30 million, but I agree that the Dodgers did well on this trade
I like it for the Sox. Trading Montas is easier when having Quintana, Sale, Fulmer, Rondon, Adams… although they desperately need to add an OF with quality
Not really. Peraza is the best prospect in the deal in my opinion. Montas is a big arm but a two pitch guy who is probably headed to the pen. There are plenty of guys around like that. Thompson is a classic AAAA or maybe 4th or 5th OF type. To me, White Sox win this trade, the Reds did fine, and the Dodgers just treaded water.
Adam LaRoushe refuses to hit to left. Every pitcher in the American League knows that he looks for a ball out over the outer half and he’ll chase pitches outside the strike zone. Once he has 2 strikes on him he’ll swing at anything. He is as close to an automatic out as you’ll find. If he would try to hit to the opposite field, he would get few hits and then the pitchers would have to adjust their approach. Until then he is useless to the White Sox.
I’ve heard that comment about Adam Laroche other places. Is that common? A MLB player refusing to adjust their game after the opponents totally figured them out?
The Reds really seemed to want Peraza. And why not? He’s closer to MLB ready than Johnson, who is three years older and approaching his sell-by date. Seems those who feel the Dodgers stole something in this trade are overrating Johnson and Montas and underrating Peraza.
Or maybe your overrating a light hitting infielder who doesn’t walk, doesn’t hit for any power, and profiles as a utility player?
No. I agree that the Dodgers appear to have gotten the better end of the deal, but it remains to be seen either on the field or in other deals that the 3 prospects are involved in.
Disagree. The Sox got the best part of this deal. They got the 3B they’ve needed for years and with his power at the very HR friendly US Cellular, Frazier should do even better in Chicago then he did in Cincinnati. They gave up 3 prospects that are career bench warmers. Johnson is horrible. Thompson is a career back up, if that. Montas has talent but lacks control.
The Dodgers and Reds did OK but honestly none of these prospects they got are that great.
I think you’re wrong about Trayce Thompson. He looked good in a September call up and I think he has a pedigree of atheleticism. I predict he will be the highlight of this trade for the Dodgers. But, still, the Sox got the best part of this deal because they needed a stud 3rd baseman.
Thompson is a career .24o hitter in the minors. six weeks of September callups doesn’t eliminate years of lack of skill. He’ll be out of the league in a few years.
I do not agree that Thompson is a career back up. He has the potential to be a star player that the Sox may regret giving up.
Reds needed to get mugged ! After trying to push damaged goods with Chapman.
Champan value all time low at this point. He will go at trading dealing mid season
Frazier trade just proves Reds aren’t serious to compete anytime soon .. Phillips next!
I disagree with the common response of this deal and think Schebler is a sneaky good player who can and probably will be the Reds everyday LF next year. Then they got Peraza, who is a total lock to be the everyday 2B all year. So the Reds are rebuilding and got two potentially everyday pieces for one, I don’t see what the problem is, when I also believe the guys the Dodgers got aren’t that good at all. Montas is slightly overrated in that he’s probably going to top out as an everyday reliever. Thompson might be also top out as what everyone else is saying about Schebler and Johnson is really, really bad at baseball, period. If the Dodgers are going to play him everyday, yikes.
FWIW: Steamer has Frazier at 3.3 fWAR next year, so it’s not like he’s a megastar gamechanger in the first place.
I’m saying the things that the general consensus aren’t realizing here is that Frazier is overrrated, the Dodgers package is overrated and the Reds package is being really underrated right now by everyone.
In comparison of the prospect packages involved, I definitely think the Dodgers did better. Peraza and Johnson are pretty comparable: both have amazing speed and decent-above avg defense (though Peraza is much more versatile) with, as of right now, sub-par bats (think Billy Hamilton). Schebler and Thompson are sort of comparable in the sense that they are both looking like future 4th outfielders, although Thompson is younger and showed more prowess at the big league level last year. The real difference here is the fact that the Dodgers got Frankie Montas, who throws in the upper 90s with a good slider. The White Sox kind of gave up on him as a starter because he was primarily a 2-pitch pitcher, but even if he becomes a lights out reliever the Dodgers still did better because all they gave up was Brandon Dixon, a light-hitting utility infielder who ranked(s) outside both the Dodgers and Reds top 30 prospects (mlb.com). Prospects are hard, and close to impossible to predict, but it seems that the Dodgers might be the long term winners of this trade. So stop complaining Dodger fans, I think you won this deal.
Big shrug. Johnson is actually rated as a below-average defender at this point and he’s also a LHB so he can’t be platooned with Utley as Peraza might have been. Difficult to see how he fits into this roster. Thompson is arguably a marginal upgrade over Schebler in that he can play CF. Montas throws hard but is wild. The bright side is he’s young, so maybe his wildness can be fixed. Still he’s a project that may or may not pay off.
If they were platooning Johnson, it would be with Hernandez, not Utley.
That makes no sense at all.
I don’t know where you got your prospect rankings, but it sure wasn’t MLB’s site, Peraza is listed as the Reds #1 prospect and #24 in the top 100, so… Yeah, don’t think I can take you seriously.
Don’t count Thompson out.
So here how the Sonny Gray trade goes for the dodgers. Dodgers calling we would like Gray off your team what would it take to get him? First it would be a package of Cory Seager and includes DeLeon and Montas. Dodgers that is way to much! You asked what it would take? So you are not trading him without a over pay? Exactly.
Actually it would take Urias
Adam LaRoche ain’t going anywhere unless they eat most of the money.
Adam LaRoche ain’t going anywhere unless they eat *ALL* of the money.
I don’t see him going anywhere either, unfortunately.
Maybe a team who needs a bat and is willing to take a chance on him might bite but I don’t think any team is that stupid after the train wreck season he had last year.
The best option for the Sox would be to just pay him outright and then release him just to make room on the roster for someone else.
I think the Sox are stuck with LaRoushe. But unless he shows that he can hit like expected, Robin should let him ride the bench. An American League team can not compete without a bonifide DH.
Let’s see how these fellas turn out before we figure out who got the better end of the deal
The Sox sorely needed a stud 3rd baseman, and I think they got one in Frazier. However, don’t be too quick to disregard Trayce Thompson. I think time will tell that he has the tools to be a big time player. I predict that he will turn out to be a .290/25/100 type player.
You don’t make trades to “win” the trade. You make a trade to better your team, fill a need. That’s what the Sox did. Makes it easier to trade in the future if you don’t “win” the trade.
Frazier should be alright with the White Sox