Jon Heyman has left his post at CBS Sports, Awful Announcing’s Joe Lucia writes, noting that Heyman’s gig at MLB Network will not be affected. He also contributes to WFAN in New York. Heyman, who has broken news about innumerable MLB trades and signings, has been one of MLBTR’s most-cited reporters in the past several years, and his tweets and columns have been invaluable to us. We at MLBTR wish him the best of luck in whatever endeavors await him. Here are a couple quick notes from the East divisions.
- The Yankees and Mets should consider a trade in which the Mets get Andrew Miller and Brett Gardner, while the Yankees get Zack Wheeler, Rafael Montero and Alejandro De Aza, John Harper of the New York Daily News writes. It would be highly unusual for the Mets to deal De Aza just after signing him, and under MLB rules, he would have to provide his consent. Beyond that, it’s a proposal that’s at least interesting — the Mets could pair Miller with Jeurys Familia to strengthen their bullpen, and Gardner would provide a good, versatile outfield option. Wheeler, meanwhile, is highly talented but perhaps somewhat expendable, given that he’ll be out until June while recovery from Tommy John surgery and is only controllable for four more seasons, and that the Mets are loaded with young pitching. The Yankees would be taking on a fair amount of risk in trading two proven players for two pitchers who missed most or all of the 2015 season. Still, Wheeler and Montero would give the Yankees’ pitching staff an infusion of youth and upside. Of course, as Harper notes, the Mets might fear the possibility of Wheeler blossoming into an ace on the other side of town.
- The Orioles can’t afford to wait much longer for Chris Davis as they attempt to set their roster for 2016, Peter Schmuck of the Baltimore Sun writes. “Everybody knows” that the Orioles would still give Davis the $150MM deal they initially offered, even though they technically rescinded it. In the meantime, though, it’s unlikely the Orioles would extend another large offer to a different free agent until they know whether Davis is coming back. In the meantime, the Orioles have acquired Mark Trumbo partially as a way of guarding themselves against the possibility Davis signs elsewhere.
John Harper. Geez!
All I could do was shake my head while reading his Yankee met trade. I’m curious, is he paid to write ?
John’s always good for a laugh.
I find myself more and more puzzled about the Yankees plan of action. While I like that they aren’t throwing money at questionable veterans anymore, I think signing Chen would make a whole lot of sense right now yet we haven’t seen any movement from them. Sevy, CC, Pineda, and Tanaka really do just leave too many quesiton marks to be comfortable with the lack of depth. Especially since they are now looking to trade Nova, who has seemingly lost favor.
This would also allow them to keep Severino’s innings on a relative limit, which could end up being very good.as his 162 innings last year was 50 more than he’s ever pitched at the pro level.
“While I like that they aren’t throwing money at questionable veterans anymore, I think signing Chen would make a whole lot of sense right now yet we haven’t seen any movement from them.”
Though not as hilarious as Harper’s ‘trade thingy’, your statement was pretty funny! You really wouldn’t consider it “questionable” if the Yankees threw Chen a ton of money (he’ll get it somewhere) for his mediocrity? Just because he’s not a veteran doesn’t make it a good idea…and just because they haven’t moved on a free agent doesn’t mean they should. Cashman isn’t perfect, but I trust him not to crap the bed with a terrible signing like Chen.
Agreed. The Yankees need solid innings eaters that will keep them in the game and get them to that shutdown bullpen. Chen is a solid option for someone but at $100m? No thanks. They would be better off signing Galardo and Kennedy, getting both for less than Chen is looking for. It’s too bad they have draft picks connected to them or I think they would be the type of pitchers Cashman would be chasing. As it is I hope they sign Cliff Lee as he was the fish that got away a few years ago and lets face it what is one more health question with that rotation? Then I hope he signs a few vets (Billingsly, Harang, Masterson) on minor league make good contracts.
If he was to trade for a young controllable arm I hope he goes after Zach Lee from the Dodgers. He could probably be acquired at a reasonable cost and he seems to need a change of scenery. The Dodgers have several young arms that will be passing him on the depth chart shortly.
While I agree with everything else you said… I couldn’t get over the inning eater comment about Chen… Do you know how many times he couldn’t make itnoutnof the 6th inning BC of his pitch count? I’m glad the orioles aren’t trying to get him back. He was great on the mound, but he killed the bullpen
Yanks wont sign Chen cause that means giving up their 1st round pick. A sacrifice not worth Chen
Miller and gardy for two pitchers and one outfielder that is worse than gardy. Giving up too much i think
Yeah, that’s ver lopsided against the Yankees. Gardner is a 3 win outfielder on a very team friendly contract and Miller is anelite reliever, also on a fairly team friendly contract, with 6 years of control between them. Trading either one for a starter who just had Tommy John would be risky, trading both would be very stupid. They each have a lot more value than that. Maybe if it were Matz, it would make more sense, but not Wheeler.
It’s not a great trade for either side.
NYM:
1. Wheeler would be traded pennies on the dollar.
2. Montero…I like him, but he had an odd end of last yr. He has #3/#4 upside and a downside of 7th inning RP.
3. De Aza…meh. He is a 4th OF, no real value there.
NYY:
1. Gardner has previously put up some good numbers, but his 2nd half numbers scare me and a decline given his age and lagging numbers scares me.
2. Miller. Obviously a great pitcher who is controlled for 3 (?) more years. His salary is an issue bc Mets ownership sucks. I wonder if bringing him in would hurt Familia’s performance/attitude?
If Wheeler bounces back, then this trade goes from being better for the Mets to much worse for the Mets. As a Met fan I’d rather the team hold onto Wheeler and let him rebuild value before considering a move. It is unclear if the Mets would consider moving Harvey at the end of the year, so having Wheeler is a big consideration if Harvey has a chance of moving.
That trade doesn’t make sense at all. Cashman may be rolling the dice on Chapman’s suspension (the number of games suspended), but he made a lucrative trade from the price point perspective. He is not going to get Miller one of the best relievers in the MLB and Gardner who up until the break was have a monster year, for an unproven Wheeler who is not available till June, and De Aza. That’s idiotic!
On second thought, is Harper a Met fan. OMG, this makes complete sense, get Cashman on the phone. Harper is going to build a dynasty for his fav team!!!!
Orioles are focused on starting pitching now. There is a log jam in outfielders right now and the market for Davis is stone cold. My prediction.
1. Ian Kennedy or garrardo will be signed.
2. They will offer Davis another contract that’s smaller. $120 5 years.
3. They will sign an outfielder, a big name one if they don’t sign Davis. But I think it also likely that they will trade for one. Orioles 1st base prospect walker will be traded. He wants MLB time. If Davis is signed and Trumbo signed walkers chances of playing time in the MLB will be little to none. I think they can get a good return for Walker.
Walker has fallen down the prospect list in Baltimore’s farm system, which isn’t very strong to begin with. They would get nothing for him, unless he has a bounce back year and they deal him at the deadline. The O’s are more focused on grooming Mancini to take over that roll
There have been teams inquiring about walker. So that’s my reasoning for them trading him for outfield help. Plus if they sign Davis they probably will put the wallet back in their pocket so a trade would be their obvious route. Walker just stands out as their best trade chip. But like you said the farm is growing radishes right now.
Teams inquiring about a prospect who has dropped a little is nothing crazy to over think about. Just a scenario where teams are seeing if they can buy low. Walker isn’t headlining a deal for a major OF like Cargo or whoever else might be available.
Kennedy would be horrible at OPACY. He lead the MLB in homers per game last year while pitching at PETCO. Imagine those numbers with the O’s
Yanks don’t trade unless they can outright rip another team off
Well put!
Most teams feel that way.
That proposed trade between the Yankees and Mets make no sense from the Yankees standpoint. They give up 2 proven players Gardner/Miller for 2 “cross your fingers” pitchers and one mediocre outfielder in De Aza.
Just wait until Sept….Wheeler will be a high-end #2 and untouchable.
He’s really never been very good. Had a pretty good stretch for half a season in 2014, but that’s it. And he turns 26 next season.
He has only pitched as a 23-24 year old, and has already posted solid, third starter type numbers (3.50 ERA, 3.77 FIP, 1.3 WHIP) in those 2 seasons. He also misses bats at K’d 187 in 185 innings his second season. He sits in the mid-high 90’s with ease late in games and has the makings of solid off speed stuff. He just needs to tighten his command which he has a chance to do, he’s done it in flashes. The only reason he pales a bit (besides the injury) is that the other guys in the Mets rotation are so ridiculously good.
He’s coming back from TJS and there are no guarantees. Plus the fact pitching in Yankees Stadium is not the same as pitching in Queens. I’ve seen far to many examples of NL pitchers not live up to expectations moving to the American League let alone the AL East with the smaller ballparks.
LOL. 3.50 ERA in the NL is not good.
Lol at your pitching staff. You jelly? It’s a league average ERA, and he did it as a 23-24 year old. Anyway, he’s our fifth starter lol, we’ll just move him to the pen when the playoffs start.
If nothing else you are optimistic. Why a team would trade 2 proven players for 2 players with question marks and a mediocre outfielder ain’t gonna happen.
Because the player in question (Wheeler) has the talent and potential to be very valuable? I agree he has to prove he’s healthy but scouts regarded him as a potential top of the rotation arm when he got hurt. There are questions with Gardner as well, he’s on the wrong side of 30, (33 this summer) his WAR has declined 3 years in a row and relies on his legs. He tanked in the second half last year. There is a good chance he is still a nice player but a declining one.
Seriously, you are grasping at straws when you say “there is a good chance he (Gardner)”is still a nice player but a declining one.”. Yes he has had some issues in the 2nd half of the year for the past couple of years. But last years struggles late in the season were due to him getting hit on the hand earlier in the season. With the way player salaries have gone up over the last couple of years Gardner’s a bargain at $13MM per over the next 3 years. BTW, Gardner doesn’t turn 33 until almost the end of the 2016 season, August to be exact.
Just so I understand you, Gardner is a declining player but Wheeler who is still recovering from TJS and certainly no sure thing “has the potential to be very valuable”. For the record he also has the potential to be a bust and never be the same after TJS.
@ the runs, just one other comment. In your last post you focused on the negative aspects of Gardner’s play past and potentially in the future while focusing only on the upside for Wheeler going foward. I do find that interesting.
Actually, what I was pointing out was there is “risk” to acquiring a 32-33 year old player who is reliant on his legs for his value. Did his hand injury have anything to do with his three year decline in defensive WAR? Players decline, especially players who rely on their legs. And you know when they start to decline? That would be…. Ummm… right about now for Gardner. As far as Wheeler goes, of course there is risk but half of the league has had TJS, it’s part if the game now as us it’s rehab process. In my minor league travels I come across many scouts and talent evaluators and I can tell you that pre injury they were drooling over Wheeler and saw him as a potential top of the rotation piece. In short there is risk on both sides of this but there is chance for huge rewards with Wheeler and you are blind to the risk of acquiring a player whose best days are probably behind him.
This trade would be plain stupid for the Yankees. Wheeler is out until when, June or so? Right now the Yankees have the best bullpen in the majors…. Better even than the Royals. Give up Miller, and they’re losing that edge for a SP that won’t play until June?? And they have no clue how a SP coming off TJS moving to the AL will even perform. It could take all season for his command to come back and by that time they could be out of contention. It’s a good trade for the Mets because they’d get one of the best relievers in the majors (and btw, their poor bullpen is a big reason they lost the WS. Terrible for the Yankees or at least extremely riaky
Or not.
Please don’t ever do that deal Yankees. Wheeler is so overrated.
That is ridiculous. Wheeler is very, very talented and was just starting to turn the corner when he got hurt. A great arm, electric stuff he was just short of command like so many young pitchers. His stuff, ceiling, and early results are very similar to Shelby Miller. If his TJS takes he can be be really good.
And if it doesn’t?
I’m wondering why this John Harper thing was even posted on here. It isn’t a rumor and everyone agrees it is at least largely stupid.
The Orioles should just sign Alvarez. He’s a nice stopgap for Walker, and if Walker is ready in the year, they can deal Alvarez to fill the system up a bit.
Regarding the proposal- I get the possible appeal, but I agree that it is way lopsided. Wheeler is unproven, Montero is an unknown at this point and De Aza is a 4th OF whereas Miller is a top 5 reliever in the league and Gardner is a proven starting outfielder, each likely able to net a deal like that on their own.
They already have Trumbo. And not many teams want to sign Alvarez at the moment. Unless he starts lighting it up, he’s not getting anything major in return, maybe a low level prospect from a team desperate for a LH power bat.
Alvarez will not go before Davis. Both have Boras as their agent so Boras won’t let Alvarez sign with the O’s until Davis is signed sine it appears that the O’s offer is still the high bid
I see Harper is applying the “Shelby Miller effect” here.
Problem is Wheeler hasn’t proven much AND he’s coming off Tommy John surgery.
I disagree I think his first full season was great, he pitched to a 3.54 era which isnt ace like but still good at least in my eyes plus he struck out 187 in 185 innings and only gave up I believe 14 home runs, now obviously that could change coming off tommy John but the mets were able to rehab Harvey back to great health so hopefully the same can be said for wheeler, I think he still has great potential to be a #2 or #3
If the Yankees work out a deal it would make more sense if it was just gardner for Montero or wheeler straight up, I think Miller wants to stay a closer and with familia in NY they won’t move him down for Miller,
Newsflash he’s not a closer anymore
News flash I didn’t say I thought he was staying with the Yankees
I misread your comment, sorry about that, but I don’t think Yankees will trade Miller, as a Red Sox fan I hope they do
Haha no worries, I say trade him if chapman isn’t suspended, if not keep. Him until chapman comes back and see where they are in the standings and what kind of year Miller is having
lol that trade would at least give us Matz
Mets would never do that trade. They wouldn’t pay $9m per for a reliever nor would they pay an OFer with Gardner’s skillset $12m per for the next 4 years.
Then they better hope that their starters can pitch complete games in the playoffs. I’m not sure why Met fans (I’m assuming you are one) would actually sound proud of that.
When the Mets have such a limited budget, you can’t waste $$. This would be a waste for them while hurting their SP depth.
That Harper trade proposal is not only laughable because of the players involved (I do like Wheeler a lot but he is coming back from TJ and you never know if he will come back like Harvey or like Nova) but what really amazed me was how he thinks the Wilpons will pay $9m for a reliever. There is a way better chance of catching a football with your buttcheeks than the Wilpons paying that kind of money for a reliever.
This is why the Yanks won’t trade with the Mets, This is a bad deal!
This trade makes no sense to me. Andrew Miller would be a nice addition but why on earth would the Mets want Gardner? He makes way too much money and I think his numbers would drop drastically playing at Citi field. If they weren’t willing to pay Murphy and are so reluctant to give Cespedes a contract I couldn’t see them taking on these 2 players and their salaries.
Why would it decrease in Citi Field? Because he’s a home run hitter? Gardner sprays the ball hard in the gaps. More gaps, longer distances to the wall would actually work better for him. It would have been great when he was younger of course but playing in a larger field Is more ideal.
And let’s not minimize how great Miller would be. Expensive? For a top closer nowadays, Millers salary is cheap. AND he has 3 more years on his contract He’s making less than Chapman and one of the reasons the now tight waded Yankees traded for Chapman was because he’s relatively cheap. And he’s already proven he can excel in NY so there’s no concern about how he’d do in a large market.
I don’t get the proposed trade Miller and Gardner for an injured pitcher and two bags of balls. The Yankees wanted Lance McCullers for Miller – McCullers made 22 starts last year, had a 3.22 ERA, and struck out 129 batters in 125 innings. Of course the Astros told the Yankees to continue dreaming. You really think the Yankees would give up both Miller and Gardner for less than what they asked for Miller alone?
I get that it’s the off-season, but a sportswriter’s musing over a potential, imaginary trade is not a trade rumor. It’s just babble, no more valuable than the typically idiotic proposals dripping from the fingers of keyboard commandos across the internet. Please desist.
For those of you saying that Wheeler is too risky to take on for that package, it’s understandable. For those saying he’s not worth it, are not familiar with him. Wheeler is much less of a sure thing than the other Mets aces, both because of the recent TJ surgery and the lack of high end results, but his pure talent has never and should never be questioned. His biggest problem is his lack of command – aka a problem for a majority of young flamethrowers – but in the starts he’s been in command of his pitches, he’s shown the same kind of ability that Harvey, deGrom, Thor and Matz have.
And obviously no one would know about Montero, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t still valuable. A few years ago, scouts said that he resembled a young Pedro Martinez (though obviously not as talented), but now he’s hardly anything more than a filler in this trade? Please. If Wheeler is overvalued by the public, Montero is vastly undervalued.
Call me biased, but I wouldn’t do that trade. As much as I’d love Miller setting up Familia, I wouldn’t give up years of cheap control of two high-upside kids in Wheeler and Montero for a reliever and a 32 year old Brett Gardner, who’d have to play CF full time for the first time since 2013 (had a -5.6 UZR/150 there in 2015), may not hit very well outside of Yankee Stadium (109 wRC+ since 2013), makes 39 million until 2018, and may very well be in decline.
This trade would be plain stupid for the Yankees. Wheeler is out until when, June or so? Right now the Yankees have the best bullpen in the majors…. Better even than the Royals. Give up Miller, and they’re losing that edge for a SP that won’t play until June?? And they have no clue how a SP coming off TJS moving to the AL will even perform. It could take all season for his command to come back and by that time they could be out of contention. It’s a good trade for the Mets because they’d get one of the best relievers in the majors (and btw, their poor bullpen is a big reason they lost the WS. Terrible for the Yankees or at least extremely riaky
It’s definitely a risk for the Yanks, but if both Wheeler and Montero develop to plan, they win this trade hands down in the long run. No one would be trading for Wheeler because they want an impact this season.
And sure, their bullpen isn’t elite, but I think they’re solid at this point. I’d feel much better if we may a move for a guy like Miller, but I don’t think it’s worth what he’d cost (ex: this trade proposal).
You make great points up until saying that Miller would setup Familia. Why would you want the Mets to use the better closer as the setup man (consider what league and stadium Miller has pitched in)? But if you see Miller as just be the setup guy for Familia then sure it would support your overall argument that you don’t trade a high end young talented starter (even coming off TJ surgery) for just a setup guy.
So what your saying is the Yankees should take the Mets garbage and give away a relief pitcher who coupled with two other relief pitchers shorten their game to six innings?
Lol if you asked ANY major league talent evaluator or scout about Wheeler being “garbage” you’d get laughed at. That’s ok, it must be tough to see all these incredible starting pitchers on one team, huh? I mean our “garbage” would be your #2-3 starter if he stays healthy.