The Red Sox and White Sox not only share similar nicknames, but they’ve also shared struggles in each of the last two seasons. In fact, Boston and Chicago have identical 149-175 records over that stretch. Here’s the latest from both shades of Sox…
- Chris Sale had some harsh words for executive VP Kenny Williams in the wake of the Adam LaRoche controversy, though this hasn’t had any impact on Sale’s future with the team, a White Sox official tells Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe. There is “no chance” Sale would be traded, the official said: “There was no chance in the offseason and no chance now. We’re building our team around Chris Sale.”
- Just in case the relationship between Sale and the White Sox has indeed gone south, Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe opines that the Red Sox should make a trade inquiry. Abraham admits that Sale and and the Pale Hose “will probably make peace,” though this piece gives an idea of the gigantic price Chicago would demand for its ace. Abraham suggests Boston could offer a trade package that includes Allen Craig and $18MM of his salary, plus young righty Anderson Espinoza and three other top-tier prospects. In my opinion, I think even this impressive offer wouldn’t be enough to land a valuable asset like Sale, who is prized for not just his ability but also his contract — $21.15MM through 2017 and then club options for 2018 and 2019 worth a respective $12.5MM and $13.5MM.
- While Craig may not be part of a blockbuster Red Sox trade package, Cafardo also suggests the first baseman could be a fit for the White Sox with LaRoche gone. Chicago seems ready to fill LaRoche’s DH spot with Melky Cabrera and Avisail Garcia, though since Boston would inevitably be footing almost all of the $21MM remaining on Craig’s contract, it might not be a bad flier to take (especially since Cabrera and Garcia are coming off poor seasons). Craig is trying to revive his career after two rough seasons that dropped his stock to the point that he was outrighted off Boston’s 40-man roster last year.
- In other first base trade speculation, Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times wonders if James Loney could be a fit for the White Sox. The Rays have been unsuccessfully shopping Loney all winter and are reportedly willing to cover some of the $8MM Loney is owed in 2016. Like LaRoche, Loney is also a left-handed hitter, perhaps making him a more ideal complement to the right-handed Garcia and Jose Abreu.
- LaRoche’s dispute with the White Sox about his son’s presence in the clubhouse has drawn a lot of response from around baseball, with ESPN’s Buster Olney (subscription required) collecting some reaction from unnamed officials and front office personnel. Most observes were surprised by the unusual nature of LaRoche’s demand that his son be a constant presence with the club and the seeming lack of communication between Kenny Williams, Rick Hahn and Robin Ventura about the situation.
- “Honestly, I don’t think I was talking about the Red Sox,” David Price told Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch about his early comments about his ideal new team. Price was focused on joining a team with a pipeline of young talent, and was initially thinking about the Cardinals and Cubs rather than the Red Sox since he “wasn’t as familiar” with Boston’s farm system. The Cards and Cubs ended up being the next two highest bidders for Price’s services this winter, though their offers reportedly fell well short of the seven-year, $217MM contract Price signed with Boston since the Red Sox were intent on landing the ace.
- One final note from Cafardo’s column: he notes that Red Sox infield prospect Marco Hernandez could be a trade target for other clubs in the wake of Hernandez’s strong Spring Training performance. Hernandez, ranked as the 12th-best prospect in Boston’s system by Baseball America, is a 23-year-old who posted a combined .305/.330/.454 slash line over 484 PA at Double and Triple-A last season. While his bat is still developing, Hernandez already has value as a utility infielder able to play second, third and shortstop.
Geeze and we wonder why some Red Sox fans are so bad. When you have guys like Abraham writing they should check in on Sale…. Then the proposed trade with Allen Craig? Wow.
Just Another Fan
For once I agree with you, Allen Craig is untradeable. You don’t propose moving trash for all-stars, you just don’t. I’d start with Bogaerts and Betts for Sale, that’s pretty fair. Neither team will pull the trigger on that so its moot. Sale and Gray are not getting traded this year, fact.
I’d jump at the opportunity to move Sale for Bogaerts and Betts. Arguably 2 of the best players at their respective positions.
Outside of Correa, whose a better SS in the AL, and outside of Trout, whose a better CF than Betts?
I’d say Lindor, as a shortstop. (though perhaps not better). Other top level names for CFs in the AL include Lorenzo Cain, Byron Buxton.
Isn’t Bradley going to be the center fielder this year? If that is the case then the Sox must think he is better.
Why is everyone on the correa bandwagon when lindor was better? Lindor is an above average hitter and baserunner with elite d imo much better than boegarts who is still top 3 or 4 depending on if simmons ever hits again
The deal proposed isn’t really all that bad.
Sale for Craig, Espinoza, Devers, Owens and Brian Johnson + 18M cash
Its not enough for Sale, but its not as laughable as you might think.
Just Another Fan
It’s laughable for a team that isn’t rebuilding. Boston would need to headline the package with MLB regulars who are at an all-star-level for Sale, like Betts, or don’t bother.
The name Craig was used just because they could use him. It’s clear 3-4 top prospects to get him. The fact that you think Sale is worth Betts and Bogarts ( players who are ALREADY worth more then him) shows how little you understand baseball. The only thing laughable is you sir.
No chance that Betts or Bogarts are even close to value of Chris Sale. With Sale being one of the top 5 starting pitchers in the game, you are saying that your ‘1 year wonders’ are worth more than Grienke, arrietta, keuchel, price, etc.. You are just reinforcing what all us non-red sox fans are saying ‘you Red Sox fans don’t think about value from any perspective other than your own.’
Betts and Bogarts are not greater value than Sale….
So true. His comment implies Betts or Bogarts ‘even up’ for bumgarner, degrom, Cole, W Davis, F Hernandez, Kluber, archer, etc..
Bother me when he makes accusations of ‘laughable’ and ‘how little you understand baseball’ …’bruinsfan94′ is actually describing himself..
I didn’t implie anything. I stated what I stated. Look at the facts. Betts and Bogarts each produced almost five win seasons last year and are two of the best young players in the game and they play prime positions and are of course safer bets then a pitcher.. Sale would cost top prospects such as Devers. Benintendit, Uras, Giolato, ETC. Players don’t trade all stars to improve thier MLB trade.. It’s doubtful Sale is up for trade this season and if he was he would get a hall but to say that hes worth players like Betts or Bogarts shows a lack of understand of player value and how trades work.
Can’t even edit comments on here anymore?
Just because I’m a Red Sox fan doesn’t mean I don’t know what I’m talking about. Sale would require a painfully big haul but Betts and Bogarts are already MLB stars. both under contract for longer then Sale, both play prime positions, and both put up almost Five WAR last year. Sale had I think 3-4 War. Look at the facts.
X had like a .375 babip. He is basically a slap hitter after his approach change. Betts is the more valuable player. But it is certainly xander plus when talking about sales value. Something like xander, kelly, owens, devers, and johnson for sale and tim anderson. That way both teams can compete this year. Otherwise trading sale and getting peopld back who start in the minors punts the season and defeats the whole offseason purpose of the white sox
Chris Sale is good, no one is gonna debate that, but Betts is already one of the best outfielders in baseball. In my personal opinion, hes already up there with the Carlos Gomez and Cain’s of the world.
You’re talking about a superstar CF in Betts and an above average starting MLB shortstop, both with 4-5 years of control in exchange for Chris Sale, whose only really had 1 legit ‘ace’ season.
Lmao at one legit ace season. This is the a.l. a sub 3 e.r.a is not a requirement for an ace year. Only 29 pitchers with at least 110 innings had an e.r.a under 4. Sale lead the ml in k’s for a reason. Only aces do that. People really dont realize how much easier it is to face pitchers than dh’s, not too mention nl rosters value positional versatility more so even ghe benchs have weaker hitters or the guys replacing hurt players.
It’s not really close unless he thinks the White Sox are just going to hurry up and trade him without speaking to other teams.
But the point isn’t even about the actual package he proposed. It’s that this “writer” is selling off useless fanboy hope trade proposals for someone who’s definitely not even available. But then says that it’s not likely to happen trying to cover himself for the people that read it that know what they’re talking about.
He says three other top tier prospects saying Espinoza, which to me and most people reading this means players like Devers, and Beninteni, players like that.
Yea your right Justanotherfan hates the Red Sox and is super inconsistant with value. He says it would be bad for a non rebuilding to team to do that team ( The white sox are kinda in the middle) but its fine for the Red Sox to trade two all stars at plus positions. Clueless.
It’s laughable. Any trade that includes Craig is laughable. If the Sox are dumping the season and dumping Sale, why would they want Craig?
And the prospects in that proposal don’t come close to Sale’s value.
Really Mark Polishuk? How about writing an article with substance instead of delusional Red Sox trade proposals We’re not talking trading baseball cards here
What exactly would the White Sox do with Craig? have him take the starting 1B job in AAA?
Same thing I was thinking even if they pay his full contract hes still negative value as a waste of a roster spot
Let’s trade the whole farm system for Sale. PAH lease
Just Another Fan
Wonder if the White Sox really will bite the bullet and fire KW. As much as having a 14 year old hanging out with grown men every day is weird and shouldn’t happen, he agreed to that term as part of Laroche’s contract and violated it when he made a big deal about asking him to change it. Heard Frazier, Jackson & Lawrie were the ones who kept asking KW to speak to Laroche about it too. You can’t agree to a term and then go back on your word? LaRoche stinks but I think MLB should make Chicago pay him his money because of their violation.
It was a Verbal agreement and Laroche even said as long as it didn’t cause problems, but as you said you “Heard” people complained, so that’s considered a “Problem”. Correct?
This “agreement” also said that LaRoche would stop bringing the kid around if any of the players/coaches had an issue with it. Multiple reports from local radio hosts with MANY connections have said that multiple players complained to Kenny about the situation. Kenny approached LaRoche, and LaRoche clearly didn’t like his EXTREMELY reasonable request to “tone it down.” Seems like LaRoche is the one breaking the agreement more-so than Kenny.
Craig has no value, at all. Yes, the Red Sox would love to dump his contract, but if it could be done, don’t you think it would have been done by now? Two different GMs have had the opportunity to do something and been unable to find takers. It’s not like Craig has suddenly found his power stroke. This idea is a waste of ink.
Ok. Those of you who are laughing about a Craig for Sale trade… read the rest of the sentence. Abraham is basically proposing that the Red Sox offer their top prospects and use Craig as ballast. He is NOT proposing that Craig is the centerpiece.
It also suggests that the Sox eat most of the contract.
Here’s one for ya. Craig and a random AAAA pitcher. White sox pay Craigs salary. Red sox get stuck with danks in return. Him in Boston. Holy Lord. 20 era time.
And he’s not sending anyone with a high ceiling that is near MLB ready. It’s just not realistic at all for a top 5 pitcher in baseball on a bargain of a contract for 4 years. It’s not close. It’s useless speculation that leads many to believe that Sale is available. Terrible, terrible writing. He should be the one telling fans “no, not going to happen”. Not the one stirring the pot.
First off find me one sports writer that in the absence of news doesn’t create his own news. Every one of them is an armchair GM suggesting thousands of trades that are highly unlikely to ever happen.
Second the article actually suggests a few high ceiling potential including Devers or Benintendi. He also suggests an MLB ready player like Travis who has a high profile at the moment.
The simple fact of the matter is if writer that backs the Rockies, Twins, or Blue Jays wrote something similar, no one would really comment. The fact that he writes about the Red Sox makes people jump up and scream.
Nope. It’s a terrible article no matter who it’s from. I’ve never seen an article from a Cardinals writer on made up trade scenarios. I’m glad I don’t have to suffer through that.
This article is a joke no matter who’s team wrote it. But Boston writers tend to do this more often then not. Just how it goes when you ready MLBTR all the time. You see plenty of crazy Boston rumors.
To be fair, most fans in the Boston market can’t stand Cafardo. His writing is always incoherent, inaccurate, and sensationalized. We get a lot of poor writers who make up crazy trade proposals but there are some quality ones like Alex Speier for example who are very informative and reasonable
Sale to the Bosox trade would start with either Bogarts or Betts and THEN you would add top prospects. Bogarts and Betts together is probably not too much but would deviate from the front office’s plan to ever realistically consider it. Either of them plus Espinoza, and others is probably close to what Sale would return.
I can’t imagine the Red Sox being able to pull off a trade for Sale with out giving up some combination of Moncada, Benintendi, Devers or Espinoza. Including all the money for Craig.
Sale is on a team friendly deal through 2019 (18 and 19 are at 13 mil) it’s gonna take ALOT to grab him from the White Sox.
BUT we should not forget that Dombrowski has a knack for making the blockbuster and dealing top prospects for established stars. and they should at least check in on Sale, in the off chance that he is available.
Last offseason, the Sox checked in on Donaldson not available they sign Pablo, week(s) later Blue Jays trade for Donaldson. Moral of the story always check in.
We are 2 weeks from the beginning of the season. A team that spent all off-season making moves to improve in 2016 is all of the sudden going to make a trade that will make them much worse in 2016 to potentially be better in 2019? This is just useless, unrealistic speculation that feeds the homers.
Wow with my Sox getting Sale this may be the greatest team in the history of baseball. The rotation was already the best and now it’s even better. In fact sale may have to move to the bullpen in Boston.
Imagine Sale on my Sox. That would be amazing. However the rotation is already so good Sale may have to settle for a bullpen role here in Boston.
Allen Craig even being mentioned in the same paragraph as Sale made me chuckle. Maybe setting us up for a Craig and a few prospects for Manny Machado rumor?
I think this is a joke on 2 fronts. First why does every Boston writer think there garbage contracts are gold to other teams? Second is you dont trade a ace pitcher like Sale that is being paid less then 13 million a year for the next 4 years cause a replacement Free agent would cost you 30+ million a year alone. It is not like Sale has any leverage in this situation. He can demand a trade all he wants but in the end there is nothing he can do but play out the next 4 years and pitch the best he can so when he does become a free agent he can land that mega deal. If he acts like a bady for the next 4 years no team will give him the mega deal he is seaking.
Plus White Sox can just trade him the final season of his 4 years remaining and get a HUGE return for him then if he is just as good then as he is now. Sorry Boston but not ever=y team wants your garbage contracts. The Dodgers deal that saved you once dont happen often.
So true. Putting Craig as the headline of the trade is a joke. Only a Boston writer/fan would even try to argue that Craig (and Boston paying $18mm) is worth anything.
Boston has 2 more horrendous contracts .. Why not throw in sandaval and Ramirez with Boston paying 90% of their salaries and see who bites…
Anyway, lots of great comments by many readers. I agree with the comment above that any deal could only start with Betts, Bogarts (and Moncada) .. Or why would the white sox even return the phone call ..
Ugh. Sale is not getting traded. End of story. It’s this rah-rah Cubs/Red Sox biased website that perpetuates these ideas. Give it up. Sale top 3-5 pitchers in baseball under one of the best of not the best bargains in baseball. And to suggest Allen Craig and PROSPECTS? Laughable. Almost as laughable as a Cubs fan and his career .212 BA Javier Baez and unproven Jorge Soler proposal for Sale. This LaRoche thing is now a non-issue now. He’s gone bye bye. Sale stepped up and showed management that he is the leader and captain of this team. He’s not getting traded for Red Sox and Cubs garbage. Listen people, when these articles and this website are written by rah-rah Cubs/Red Sox homers, you’re going to come across articles like this one. A LOT. Take it with a grain of salt and move on to the next unbiased article
The white sox are going nowhere with Sale,why not entertain offers? Cubs garbage would be alcantara and volgelbach. Package of 3-4 Hendricks Schwarber soler Russell Baez underwood Torres would have to make Sox consider . Of course Cubs can sign Strasburg next year and Sale can continue to dominate and not make playoffs.
They can trade him in 3 years when he has 1 year left under his contract and fetch the same package in top prospects if they dont win in the next 3. Not gonna happen this year. Sorry.
Uh, no. You do not get the same value for 1 year of Sale as you would for 4. This post is just stupid.
You also most likely don’t get anywhere near enough value back if you trade 4 years of Sale. Unless a team is willing to give up a couple young stud position players AND gut the top of their minor league system, they aren’t getting Sale, especially for 4 years at a ridiculously cheap price.
Baez and his career .201 avg? Addison Russell and his .242 avg? Or is it shwarber and his .246 avg?? Remember the rest of baseball doesn’t think as much of cubs “prospects” as Cubs fans do. Try and sign Strasburg you have a better shot at getting him than ACE Sale lol
I imagine the rest of baseball doesn’t judge players strictly by their batting average, either.
If they thought they were going nowhere, they wouldn’t have traded for Frazier. I love how the LAST PLACE Redsox point fingers about teams going nowhere.
It’s laughable. Any trade that includes Craig is laughable. If the Sox are dumping the season and dumping Sale, why would they want Craig?
And the prospects in that proposal don’t come close to Sale’s value.
And the Cubs trade is equally dim. Cub writers may tout Soler as some elite prospect, but a .1 WAR suggests otherwise.
By your logic prospects are useless because their major league batting average’s are 0! Players dont get better in your world though. I feel like any comment quoting batting average should be accompanied with the whole triple slash or the comment doesnt register. Mike schmidt and johny bench were career .267 hitters, couple of average players those 2 are by your logic. Im not saying baez and soler for sale is even but quit spewing nonsense as an argument against it. Btw adding hammel or hendricks to any proposed cubs package is a must because the sox dont full out rebuild and would need a starter back.
A package of Baez and Soler wouldn’t even get you Quintana, let alone Sale.
I didnt say it would. I said quoting baez batting average as a 21 year old is irrelevant to his value and isnt a valid argument. He wrote all that and the one fact was a top prospects batting average his first 200 pa’s before he could legally drink. Thanks for your hot take as well though. And the sox would definantly listen to soler, baez, and hammel for q. They have pitching in the system but nothing on the way offensively other than anderson but he is more likely to bust than baez even imo.
You’re welcome, again.
I’m pretty positive I never said you thought that’d be a fair deal, They were both mentioned in your post, and I simply pointed out that it’s a laughable package for Sale.
I never said the Sox wouldn’t listen to Soler, Baez, and Hammel for Quintana. I said that it wouldn’t get a deal done, and it wouldn’t. Did you see what the Braves got for Shelby Miller? That’s with teams knowing that the Braves wanted to move him. Why would the Sox take any less than that for a similar-level pitcher (if not better) that they have NO interest in moving? Short answer: They wouldn’t.
The fact is, if anyone wants one of the top pitchers from the Sox, they’ll have to give up A LOT. They don’t want/need to trade any of them, especially with the contracts they’re on.
Thanks for your hot take though.
Sale provides so much projected excess value over the next four years–without having to take the type of back-end risk that goes along with a top-tier free agent pitcher–that it’s hard to see what type of a deal would be remotely fair for him. I can’t blame Boston for hoping and asking, but the trade offer would have to be irresistible. And, by “irresistible” I mean by intrinsic value of players offered, not based on hype, or a good three week stretch of time. Craig is just ballast to be tossed around. Unless he gets his act together, it’s just moving a bad contract (and then, the bigger question is whether you risk a roster spot on him).
Players should not always be so ready and willing to bite the hand that feeds them. Since children in the clubhouse is not a CBA event teams can quickly make a hard and firm policy to prevent children under XX from doing XX and the only losers are the players…
Where’s “bigpapi4ever” talking about “his RedSox” getting Sale?
I thought he’d be the first in here
He’d probably say the White Sox need to send more than Chris Sale to get Allen Craig
He’s listening to “Imaginary Lover” at 45 speed dreaming about Ortiz.
The Boston media playing on the delusions of Boston fans. I don’t think, at least I hope that these columns aren’t meant to be taken seriously? If these columnist’s were hoping to get responses to their columns I’d say they were very successful, albeit, nothing positive.
I’m a jays fan and I do enjoy watching them play in Fenway, however, stories and trade theories like this make me dislike the Red Sox organization even more, such arrogance. As if I needed any more motivation dislike the Red Sox other than John Farrell.
You can’t accuse the Red Sox of arrogance because of an article by a writer, that’s not really fair.
I actually love to follow the Red Sox, their minor leagues are a lot of fun these days. But the narrative driven Boston media would give me an aneurism if I had to follow it daily.
If you’re going to speculate on a trade package for a major talent like Sale, best not to start with the piece that nobody involved really desires (Craig) then gloss over the important pieces. The article didn’t do it like the summary here but it did promote lesser prospects like Sam Travis as headliners before suggesting alternatives like Devers or Benintendi.
Let’s see. The Sox signed Laroche because they thought he could hit 20-25 homers with a c.750 OPS. He had a bad year, and the Sox were lucky to be rid of him.
So now they want to go after Loney, who’s BEST seasons compare to the bad Laroche? Where do the writers come up with this nonsense?
As for Sale, predictably, the RedSox writers submit offers worth about 1/2 of his value.
All these comments and not 1 from our resident Sox fan?
A more realistic package for Sale:
I wouldn’t call a guy who finished last year with a 3.41 ERA a top five pitcher… Maybe not even in the top 20. His ERA was 27th in the league last year.
The white sox had one of the worst defensive teams in baseball, and also jettisoned their starting catcher for a reason. That’s part of things I believe.
Actually flowers is one of the best framers in baseball and sale wanted him to stay. But yeah terrible defense and comparing a.l to n.l e.r.a’s is pointless. Al has guys paid to just hit, nl has pitchers hitting and bunting. Not too mention 1 year e.r.a can have high varience but career e.r.a and peripherals say sale is top 3.
Being a good pitch framer doesn’t really make you a good starting catcher… That’s just one aspect of catching.
Sale also wanted an AWFUL LaRoche to stay. I’ll take his opinions on personnel with a grain of salt.
He was implying the reason they let flowers go was his defense. When in reality it was his offense, again thanks for your hot take that isnt relative to the argument.
You responded with, “Actually flowers is one of the best framers in baseball,” implying that he wasn’t a big problem with the defense. In reality, he’s awful at just about everything except framing, which as I mentioned, is only one small aspect of catching. You can say all you want about his bat, but if he was a good defensive catcher, he’d still be employed with the Sox. He’s an average (at best) defensive catcher that can’t hit, that’s why he’s not with the team anymore.
And if you want to talk about irrelevant, Sale wanting him to stay has absolutely nothing to do with his talent/skill level.
The White Sox have zero use for Allen Craig in any trade package and no matter how much of his contract is picked up. I wouldn’t even trade John Danks for Craig. Danks and his bad contract is far more useful for the White Sox than anything Craig might offer them.
Sale for Shelby Miller, straight up.
Throw in Dansby and Inciarte, and maybe we can at least start talking. Oh wait…